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“Words of Wisdom” is an initiative to document and celebrate the stories, insights, and wisdom of Singapore’s senior citizens. It's powered by Folklory, a service dedicated to preserving stories through audio podcasts, who will collaborate with 60 seniors aged 60 and above to create a series of 60 podcasts, each capturing a unique slice of Singapore’s rich history and culture. Find out more info at Folklory.com
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:24:04
Unknown
Hello there. This is Terence from folkloric. What you're about to listen to is a podcast from the Words of Wisdom Project, where we spoke to 60 Singaporeans over the age of 64, issue 60, and captured their life lessons for the next generation. We hope you enjoy it.
00:00:24:06 - 00:01:01:22
Unknown
And we're here today to speak with Salma. And as always, I think a good way for us to start online is for you to just introduce yourself briefly and tell us what you do. All right. My name is Salma. Okay. I'm, born in the 50s, and, and then from from, you know, the baby boomers to the Gen Z know, and, I have many, memories of my childhood that, contributes to, what I am now.
00:01:01:24 - 00:01:26:17
Unknown
Yeah. I, I that's a that's a good thing. Because this. Yeah. Today we're going to talk a little bit about you know, the things how like what you said, the memories that contribute to who you are today. Maybe because I think you have a very, strong interest and passion in teaching students. In with special needs.
00:01:26:19 - 00:01:50:05
Unknown
Maybe that's a place that we could start. And I did want to ask you, you know, what brought you to to the industry to, you know, into the education industry and specifically even to working with students or special needs. What what was the what was the origin story? Okay. It was, it was just, written to me by luck.
00:01:50:05 - 00:02:26:13
Unknown
Can you see, I consider it's my my luck to to have, you know, met, this, children with special needs, and, and for the to work with them, for them and to do, to survive in the, in the, in the world, which is a complicated world for them. Yeah, yeah. Before I, before I, started to teach them, I was,
00:02:26:15 - 00:02:55:08
Unknown
I didn't know anything about this, education or these people, people with special needs. After I left school. After I left school, I, try to apply to go to an IEEE, to be a teacher, which is my dream, my dream, career. But, I was rejected because, my my, is not good enough.
00:02:55:09 - 00:04:01:09
Unknown
Yeah. And I then joined, nursing. Yeah, yeah, for a year and, well, I, I, I met, I, what was three, in, in the year of, nursing, I, I did, see a few of, childbirth, which is not normal. And, like, for example, babies born to be, having Down's syndrome and, some of them this, then, it was, not a concern yet to me because I was young boy then, and, I, I, I like nursing, but, at the end of the year one, I after, I, after I witnessed, a few child labors, which I,
00:04:01:11 - 00:04:37:10
Unknown
it shocked me and I couldn't take it, you see, to to to see, just such a, you know, very, frightening, you know, and then I left. I left after first year, after my first year of nursing, and then I, I became I got married, I got married, and then I, I, became jobless, after I left, nursing and I joined, they left teaching.
00:04:37:12 - 00:05:10:10
Unknown
I started because my passion is in teaching. Right. So I, I became a real teacher, for two years, into different schools. And, after that, I thought of there was an and, advertisement, you know, need special need, teacher, to teach, in, in to these special kids, which I do not understand.
00:05:10:10 - 00:05:52:03
Unknown
What is special needs then. So I just applied to because I was jobless, you see. Just just apply to, to get back to teaching. Then the school is it's, it's not a school in the that there's a class of 20, of 20 students function in the church hall. Okay. Yeah. And, it's, the class is divided by a divider, for, ten, students in each, class.
00:05:52:03 - 00:06:23:06
Unknown
Yeah. And, I was lost, you know, and and was, taken aback to see that, students, run about and, really hard to manage, you know, but but somehow I, the, the principal then, he, she was, teacher from, minister of education, seconded to, to lead the school as a principal.
00:06:23:08 - 00:06:59:03
Unknown
And, this this a principal, you know, was very nice and very nurturing and, every, every day after school, she would, talk to me, you know, to, to like, motivate me, impress me that I'm doing well. And so I, and and, give me tips, to, you know, to, to deal with, some of the behaviors and, so I was a bit relieved.
00:06:59:03 - 00:07:28:01
Unknown
Yeah. And, I went on and slowly, I, I, get gotten used to it. And, I find that it's very challenging. And I could see the. Oh, the babies that I saw, to be down syndrome now is, not miss, you know, it's an adult. I mean, they were, well, in the, early things.
00:07:28:03 - 00:08:02:12
Unknown
Okay. Yeah. Now, so I, I became very, excited, you know, to, to see that they, they improve, you know, after so much of, the intervention that I would see, that, you know, we, we, do every day. Okay. Yeah. And, and then, in, seventh, early in the 74 in the.
00:08:02:13 - 00:08:51:00
Unknown
Yeah, in 74, 75, there was, and principal from Perth, who came to Singapore to visit, Singapore, you know, special needs, schools, education in Singapore. So he came to visit our center because his center is a church hall, instead of a center. And, he, he wished to, help out with, with, you know, our, with us to, to help with our teaching and, he then he invite proposed that, you know, that then we would all not reunite.
00:08:51:00 - 00:09:26:20
Unknown
Only the principal was, the only trained teacher. And there were there were another three of us, three teachers together with me and, this, principal from birth. So, proposed that, the, the school, the Singapore centers, the teachers be sent to him to his school in Perth for attachment, to at least to to learn, some skills and, everything that, you know, we, we, we, we need to improve.
00:09:26:22 - 00:10:02:04
Unknown
Yeah. So. And, the principal, my principal, voted that I, I'm the first one to go. Yes. So, yeah. And then, in 2017, five, I went there, I went to Perth, to, to be attached in the South Kensington Special School. It was the name was in, yeah. In Perth City and I was it day for one month.
00:10:02:09 - 00:11:06:05
Unknown
Yeah. To understand the teachers, and the school facilities and all that, I was so, overwhelmed with the facilities there, with the, the teachers. I mean, they're very, you know, very generous in, in, many would approach me and one to show me and teach me and, you know, tell me everything about, about the school and, oh there, you know, I, we, we, we may need in Singapore and, I was also brought to, the minister of education in Perth and, many other special the school, the activities they exposed to so many, areas for, for for
00:11:06:07 - 00:11:25:05
Unknown
the development of these, these kids. Yeah, I see, I see, yeah. Okay. So I mean, did it sounds like there have been a lot of opportunities as well to, not only work with, the children with special needs, but also with other teachers as well to meet other teachers. Not only in Singapore and other areas. Right?
00:11:25:05 - 00:11:50:01
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. And there. No, I'm sure some of them have become your friends as well. Yes. I how like what? What do you think, are the important qualities of these people that they, they not only the people you work with, but also eventually become your friends. What what are the values that you see them? Okay.
00:11:50:03 - 00:12:22:20
Unknown
I find that, the the they have passion. They're very passionate people with, with a lot of compassion, you know, for for people with special needs, especially. And, and it's, it's like, very motivating, you know, and, we, we share a lot of, experiences, you know, in, in India. What? Well, do works with them.
00:12:22:22 - 00:13:07:23
Unknown
From, from childhood to adulthood until they get to work. And, some of them got married and have families. Yes. Yeah. So along the way, there's so much to learn, you know, that, to to to watch, you know, the, the, the betterment of the, the special needs, kids love. Yes. And, and, from, and this, from the first, attachment that I had in it also continue to, to, other teachers as well.
00:13:08:00 - 00:13:36:24
Unknown
They, they take turns, you know, and also, I had a together, about three, opportunities to be there, to go to that same school to do different projects and, and, from that 75 onwards, from the first time I went there till, 1980s through the 80s, Singapore has progressed, you know, progressed so much.
00:13:37:01 - 00:14:15:19
Unknown
Yeah. To be, about the same, at the same and at the same is what they are doing in birth. So Singapore is a very fast learner and, and I find that, you know, we Singapore Museum of Education has, a very, what what should I see? You know, a efforts, to, to take actions, you know, for food for the for the good reasons.
00:14:15:19 - 00:14:46:22
Unknown
I mean, if if there's opportunity, to to to better the, the conditions of of these people, they, they will, you know, expedite, you know, the needs. Yeah. That's, Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, I mean, so that's I think you've also, met a lot of, young people who have, you know, also become like you, you know, teachers of students with special needs.
00:14:46:24 - 00:15:25:15
Unknown
What advice do you give young people who are interested in joining the industry? What advice do you give them today? Oh, okay. I you know, to my surprise, you know, the people, it's all about, the individuals, personalities and, passions, you know, we has, young people, like, they are lawyers, you know, they are, trained to be lawyers and, other professionals.
00:15:25:17 - 00:16:03:20
Unknown
But, when they came to a special needs school to try out and after a while, they got stuck. They they want to stay. They stay, and they do it. They, you know, just willing to, not to continue with what they the, you know, yeah. Other professional engineers or lawyers or whatever. And they, they begin, you know, special needs teachers, they willing to go for the training and, they, they're doing well.
00:16:03:22 - 00:16:34:18
Unknown
Yeah. But for those who see what I see, it all depends on the individual passions. Right. If those who don't have passions but it's just for employment, you know, they, they may come in and they find that, it's not the, it's not a college, not what you the calling.
00:16:34:18 - 00:17:02:05
Unknown
And they find it difficult to, to manage or, you know, they find that the pay is not, you know, what they expect, because the salary is also, is also, a matter, you know, to to. Yeah. Okay. So, so just. Yeah, I mean, on that note, just talking about passion this moment, right? Yeah.
00:17:02:07 - 00:17:35:24
Unknown
When you hear the what, what they love. What is that what it mean to you, love? It means that, I think it's natural, you know, it's, it's a nature call. You you can't you cannot, you something that is already in you, you you you acquire. But, it is really a bond to, to have it.
00:17:36:01 - 00:18:05:16
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. Love is like something like love passion to for to in in in, in in teaching. You mean if I see a love in teaching. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's I feel like, teachers, a born want to be teachers if you want to. With teachers, you have the love to teach them. You will be there, you know?
00:18:05:16 - 00:18:46:15
Unknown
Yeah. Despite of, any challenges or whatever you will pursue, you know, you will. You will take up the challenges and you will try to overcome it no matter what. But if you don't have, then, no matter what, no matter how much they give you as a reward, you will not be able to, you know. To do it to me, to be, to be in LA, I mean so is it, but then is it possible to develop this passion or love if you're not born with it.
00:18:46:17 - 00:19:19:08
Unknown
To develop. Yeah. Maybe, maybe a few. I, I can, I can I have a few experience of, of I've come across with people who initially came, with no passion. I mean, you know, just just, I just want to try, you know, I, I've got nowhere else to go. So, I just, I mean, I mean, this person is, very, very, direct and very honest.
00:19:19:10 - 00:19:44:24
Unknown
But then, so it's, and they and she is attached to me. Okay. As a, as a first, new teachers, you'll be attached to, another teacher who, you know, will guide you. You see a mentor. So this particular person, she she is, she is trained to be, pharmacists. Okay.
00:19:45:01 - 00:20:28:14
Unknown
Yeah. So she she works in the in our in our lab and all that. Right. But she is or whatever, but, so come to to this teaching things. I just us, I just tell her, okay? You just, come in and, you'll be with, in the class, and you can watch. You can you can ask me any question while I while we do, you know, our activities and, for few and for few days, she asked me some questions on, why is, why is this, student like that and this and that?
00:20:28:16 - 00:21:16:07
Unknown
So I, I just, you know, see something that is positive, you know. Yeah. So yeah, the, the positive thoughts that we, forward to them. Well, well, well, you know, well, well, well make them feel positive also, you know about about their, thoughts if, if they think, okay, for example, you say that, you know, you if she find it, you know, my approach to, a student who, misbehave or meltdown, is, very positive.
00:21:16:07 - 00:21:43:14
Unknown
You know, there's no, there's no, scolding. There's no shouting, there's no, what you call it. You know, is, does say that. Okay. You you you we just sit, okay? I wait for you until you're okay. You you tell me. Okay? You tell me what? So waited for the person to come down. Then I can talk to them.
00:21:43:19 - 00:22:21:15
Unknown
What's your problem? Why? You know, like, the approach is the positive approach is very, is workable. To to, I mean, is, is is, a psychological approach, you know, to, to negative behaviors. So, from that she learns, that oh, it's not it's not difficult, you know, like, to, to handle, behavior problem or it's not, it's not difficult to manage.
00:22:21:17 - 00:22:49:02
Unknown
Oh, challenges. Yeah. Okay. So I mean like just thinking about love and passion. There's also a lot of young people today who, you know, the in spite of social media and being connected and seeing a lot more of the world than we did before, they still feel like they cannot find their passion or their love in life.
00:22:49:04 - 00:23:39:20
Unknown
What advice, you know, these young people who have not been able to find their passion? I don't quite understand. What is what is it? What you mean? Oh, I mean, what advice do you have for someone who says that they can't find they haven't found their passion in life and they feel very lost? Oh, I would say that, you know, we should, embrace the, the, the growth mindset that, you know, we we need to have positive thoughts in our mind, you know, we we cannot, like, think of the, the FA and, you know, the, the, the the success rate or success stage, stage, everything you
00:23:39:20 - 00:24:11:14
Unknown
can start with scratch, you know, from trial and error and, you know, to continue learning, I mean, something that you like, and, that learning is learning is, is a process that gives great satisfaction. I mean, you you should give yourself time, okay? Not to, to rush, but it you should know where you you you are, at what level you are.
00:24:11:14 - 00:24:40:15
Unknown
You start from where you are. And then slowly, you know, to work on, on the steps to, to reach that, I feel that we should sit we not to think of. Oh, I must be there. That's my my, what? I want to be easy. You must see where I am now. Yeah. Then where I want to be.
00:24:40:17 - 00:25:15:09
Unknown
So there is a great, step. Is this a white, area, you know, very, very much, things that you have to go through. So just learn step by step. You know, just go. Yeah. Okay. I mean, you know, because we are also recording this, to celebrate Singapore's 60th birthday, I did want to ask you, what do you wish for Singapore in the next 60 years?
00:25:15:11 - 00:25:50:21
Unknown
For the next 60 years? Well, I, know, so, you know, again about, the next 60 years, Singapore would be, in, in, in, in you mean in, in the for for the span, people with special needs. So, I know just even yourself. What do you wish for? Singapore society includes everyone for the next 60 years.
00:25:51:02 - 00:26:45:24
Unknown
What do you hope to see? Yeah. No. Singapore is very peaceful. People of different races are very united. And, but quite and put many of them now, in the social media that I come across, they are so, worried about, the they think about the war, everywhere, you know, and, they feel bitter and, about, oh, certain group of of people who've, you know, the hatred that, each have, on the others, you know, I feel that,
00:26:46:01 - 00:27:31:12
Unknown
We should not, think about that now. I mean, it's we must, keep what we are now, and, be better. Be better. See, I can foresee that there will be more, more, population in in, in many, races, right, like, multi-racial and not only, now we have, Chinese Indians, maybe we we we, we just like Switzerland, you know, having multi-racial, and this can be it's very peaceful.
00:27:31:12 - 00:28:06:07
Unknown
It's a very peaceful country. Right. For example. Yeah. In Switzerland. So, I would I would like to see, in the future with more of, other, resources that comes into Singapore would be maintained, the peacefulness, and, just like in Switzerland. Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:06:09 - 00:28:36:14
Unknown
Hello again. I hope you enjoyed listening to that. So, Folkloric Words of Wisdom is a project by Charlotte Gold, powered by folklorist and supported by our Singapore Fund. To find out more, please visit our website at Folklorico. That's f lky o r y.com. Goodbye.