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Norm Hitzges ranks as a sports talk show legend having spent 48 continuous years on the air in Dallas. Now begins his next chapter with his new podcast "Just Wondering..."
From major interviews to waxing philosophical, join Norm every day as he talks sports, travel life or...anything he's just wondering about.
Today's just one that will be very draft intensive. I'll take you through my evaluations of the Cowboys draft and take a quick look at, in my estimation, the best and worst drafts. And then we'll talk with longtime cowboy beat reporter David Moore to review his feelings on the draft, the future of George Pickens, and what lies ahead for new defensive coordinator Christian Parker. And now a word from our title sponsor. Eying retirement? We aim to turn your nest egg into a paycheck with half the amount you've been led to believe. Fluent Financial combines in house portfolio design risk management with income generating investments designed to aid your financial independence. Our goal is to develop an effective portfolio strategy to help you retire sooner and have a better lifestyle. Fluent Financial can also implement a program that allows business owners to install a cash balance plan, which may potentially reduce income tax payments. You've worked hard to become successful. A leaderinthe.com or call (972) 852-4800. Evaluating drafts can be a precarious task. Teams may take a player who seems odd to the rest of us, but who the team feels will be a really good fit for their scheme. That's especially true of the cowboys this year. Their new defensive coordinator, Christian Parker, has a picture in his mind of what his new three four defense will look like in Dallas. The type of players who fit his scheme are the types he wants to draft. And at this point, none of us, the media, the draft experts, we know what that we don't know what that picture in Christian Parker's mind looks like exactly. First round pick, Caleb Downs is a safety, but he'll likely spend most of his first year here playing Nickelback. And then the second first round pick Malachi Lawrence, who is an outside edge rusher in Dallas, will be an outside linebacker in a three four. Now will he rush most of the time? Yeah. But can he cover out of the backfield? I don't know. And the third round pick, Jayshawn Barham. He played mostly edge rusher at Michigan, but Parker envisions him as an inside linebacker. Overall, I like the Dallas draft. Downs is fantastic. Lawrence is truly a freakish athlete. But given that, I wonder why his college production wasn't higher when he was better athletically than almost any tackle he faced ever. My day three favorite was Penn State offensive tackle Drew Shelton. Apparently, the team shares my concern over the progress or lack of it of twenty four first round draft choice offensive tackle Tyler Guyton. But to makeover of this defense is remarkable, and it should be. Last season's defense was hideous or worse. There will be five new starters in game one, Downs and free agent Jalen Thompson at the safeties, free agent corner Durant, edge rusher Gary, and the linebacker winners who were acquired in trades. And at some point, those draftees Lawrence and Barham will be expected to be starters. Dallas had one of the top classes in the draft. And for what it's worth, here are my other favorite draft classes. What's extraordinary is the presence of jets, giants, browns who've recently not been famous for their picking ability. No one else has Miami ranked this highly. But as the selections unfolded, the dolphins just kept choosing, in my estimation, one solid player after another. And KC traded up for star quarter man, sir Delaine, who they desperately needed, and then added some good players in the later rounds. As far as the worst drafts, I don't believe in punishing teams who had only a few picks like the rams and seahawks. Besides, like LA, they swapped the number one draft choice for star cornerback Trent McDuffie whom they badly needed. So here's my list of unimpressive work from the weekend. Jacksonville had lots of picks, but didn't add lots of talent. Minnesota and Denver appeared to reach to fill needs with their top selections. And after watching Houston's top four picks, I thought they were simply choosing heavy guys. And I, for one, didn't understand what Indy was doing. But those are just the opinions of me. Let's get the insights of longtime cowboy beat reporter David Moore next. What do you want from your favorite restaurant? Fantastic personal service, a cheery, welcoming, spotless atmosphere, and of course, food. The primest of beef, Wagyu and lamb, incredibly fresh seafood, lobster, salmon, shrimp, hall of fame food from a hall of fame restaurant, two locations of Bob's Steak and Chop House, the original Bob's on Lemon Avenue, and the gorgeous new Bob's at Craig Ranch McKinney. My wife Mary is the cocreator of full moon healing balm, And I guess I'm the reason this terrific cream was developed. A few years ago, I began getting these huge ugly blood blotches just beneath the skin of my arms and hands. The condition's called senile purpura. And no, you don't have to be senile to experience this embarrassment. It happens as you age. And then to cover it up, we begin wearing long sleeves, even when it's hot. It took two years working with a New Jersey lab to refine the all natural ingredients of full moon healing. Gently massage a very small amount into the skin, and within a day, the blotches begin to fade. See now, purpura usually takes weeks to disappear. But this bomb cuts the timeline to about a week. And ordering's so easy. Just go to the website, fullmoonhealingco.com. Dallas Fort Worth readers have had the pleasure of experiencing the reporting and the writing of David Moore for decades now. He he's been covering sports. Is this the fifth decade? It it would be the fifth decade. Yes. Fifth? Not quite up to you, but I'm trying to I'm trying to hang in there. Hey. I'm just older than you. That's all we're talking about here. David covered the Dallas cowboys forever for the morning news, still writes about them for d magazine. He recently retired from the morning news, but most recently, we shared a room at the star for the NFL draft. David, thanks for your time. Thanks for being with us. Oh, always enjoy being with you, Norm. Let's go to your grade on the draft, and and I'm gonna I'm gonna make a little different question. Okay. We know Caleb Downs is a star. If he can't play, this thing was terrible. But take me for the for the draft after Downs and what you thought of it. Well, I think, and and I will say, you know, a a lot of this is judged on people we've come to trust through the years and their talent evaluation. And I think one thing that is important to remember on this is when the sources we go to that we trust who who have who have shown that they're good talent evaluators, they're still not they're doing a general assessment, right, of what the player is. They're not doing them based on this is our system. This is who we have here. I can see this guy fitting into my system there. So so often that I think a lot of times that's where you get into the, well, this team reached on this or reached on that. But also, I would say they're just definitive talent evaluators on overall physical ability and, comprehensive and real time ability to assess information on the field that gives the general one. And by that one, that's a long windup to get into Malachi Lawrence. He went higher than, I think, just about anyone projected. They liked him. They, a lot of evaluators like his talent upside. They feel he has a higher ceiling maybe than some players that had rated ahead of him. But when you have a ceiling, that means you haven't reached that potential yet. Right? And there's no assurance that you will. So I they saw some traits in Malachi Lawrence that really intrigued them. In fact, after the draft, they compared him to DeMarcus Lawrence in in some ways as far as his relentless playing style and his burst. All great. From their lips from their lips to god's ear right there, David. Well, exactly. And and and here's the thing. And I found that interesting because where was DeMarcus Lawrence taken? In the top of the second round. He was actually taken later than Malachi Lawrence was taken at 23. Again, an inexact science here, but they saw some trace there. They project him. I would say for for this draft to really if Caleb Downs is a given, which I think just about any evaluator will tell you he is. In fact, he may be in a lot of ways arguably the potentially the most impactful player in this draft on the defensive side of the ball potentially. When you take him out of it, I think this draft, whether or not it's going to really hit for Dallas, will be determined by how Malachi Lawrence, who was their second pick in the first round, and Joshon Barham, who was their third, who was their pick, in the third round, will, will do. Barham was projected in that range, but the, the issue on him was a lot of people viewed him as an edge. Dallas made it very clear. He's going to start it inside linebacker for us, go from there. He has some edge capabilities. They say he's, you know, they used the name Zach Bond on him, Philadelphia, who once he actually got in the spot that he should have played, with the Eagles, he really took off. So, I think the level of production and how quickly one or both of those guys are able to make their impact on this defense will, by and large, determine whether or not this was a a successful draft for the Cowboys. Were there simply too many holes on this club to fill in one draft? They couldn't have filled all the holes they had on this. And, you know, this isn't I mean, look. We've seen this Dallas defensive reclamation project not that long ago. Right? Go back to 2021, where they were coming off another historically bad season defensively. And in that year, in Dan Quinn's first year, eight of their 11 draft picks were defense, in their first six in a row that year. At at this stage, five of the eight players they signed in free agency were defensive players. So that came to the and we're talking at this stage. They continue to supplement that later as this Dallas team will. But at this point in 2021, when they underwent that reclamation project, they added 13 new defensive players to the list to start their their, you know, extreme makeover. This year, five of the seven players in the draft were on defense. Seven of the nine players they've signed to free agency in this point were on defense, and they traded for two defensive players in Rashawn Gary and Dee Winters. That's 14 players. So, right now, at this stage where we stand, they've added one more player defensively than they did in 2021. But I go back to that year and the results were dramatic. They went from one of the worst defenses in the league to a top 10 defense, but that was fueled by Micah Parsons. Caleb Downs would have to have a similar impact in my mind for them to make a comparable jump in one year. And just because they were able to do it with Quinn doesn't mean they're going to be able to do it to that extent this time around. What's the biggest toll left on this team? There are just so there are so many unproven areas. I mean, I I think they're hoping and believe that they may have filled some of those holes with this draft. You could still upgrade defensively. You could still upgrade, at linebacker, in my opinion. You you have unproven edge rushers. You don't have a lot of you don't have a lot of juice on the outside where you say, you know, look, I I think Rashawn Gary is a very good player, probably one who is not doesn't have the adequate, appreciation among fans because his performance hadn't reached what he was paid. But that was Green Bay's decision to pay him that money. I think he was always been the the type of player he is now, And he's a very solid above average player. But look, you you gave up, an elite pass rusher in Micah Parsons, and you haven't come close to to duplicating that, certainly not individually or by committee at this point in my mind. Was there a player Dallas just missed on in this draft? Maybe not, Maybe not. But, you know, I get and and it was a fourth round pick, so you have to you have to keep it in the in the perspective and the parameters. I mean, I kind of got the sense that LT Overton, who was started at A and M and then went to Alabama, they basically labeled him as, you know, we needed a body to replace when we traded Oso Odigizuo. We needed that type of body and that type of individual on the depth chart to kind of fill in and do some of those things. And I just find when you're when you're at that stage and you're going and look, you know, they said at the they implied at the time, well, Osa didn't really fit this defense. I don't buy that. Osa didn't fit the defense because of his salary, not because of his talent, ability ability to play football or or football character and smarts. Because he's he's I thought he was a very, very good player. You know, in that regard, Barham better be a good player because they gave up Odigi Zua to get the draft choice that they used to take Barham. Exactly. Basically, what they did was they just they had too After years of never investing money in the interior of the defensive line, suddenly, they had three big contracts in the interior of their defensive line. Now they're going to yet another, defensive front approach with Christian Parker had an overload there. So they basically took they basically said, we can't continue to assign this much money to one position. We have to move it. And what we pick up in financial flexibility in the move, we're going to pour into the linebacker position. And and I still don't think they're finished at linebacker, and I and I don't think I don't think they feel they are either. Barham can if if if he can be the type of an if he can be even a Zach Bond starter kit, in his first year, I I think they would feel pretty good about that. But but that position was so so underwhelming for them last year and so at the bottom of the scale that that that's where they have to improve in the front seven most. David, I have a favorite underrated pick in this draft. What's yours? For the Cowboys? You know, De Devin Moore is an interesting guy to me because he has the size that they don't have back there. But but really, I I think Drew Shelton can really give them some flexibility going forward. Know, David, that's that's my favorite player because suddenly Tyler Guyton, has not yet proven to be a really solid left tackle after two years. It gives him some real competition for that spot. It does. And I think there are a lot of, you know, he he Drew trained here locally with Duke Maniweather, and I think he I think he's gone up from, two hundred ninety five pounds to three o three zero five. So he has redefined his body a little bit in in a quick period of time. He's a guy from my understanding who has had trouble retaining good weight. You know, a lot of offensive linemen can retain weight, but they don't retain good weight in the muscle. And, it it it seems like he's kind of making that transition to doing that. I don't know that he will be I don't think he's a guy who will necessarily challenge Guyton from day one. But I think the belief is this guy can can be there and do it pretty quickly. And if Guyton doesn't show the improvement that he should show in year three, then they have a guy they can fall back on. And and we'll we'll I think we'll find out in the next, you know, few weeks how this plays out. My belief is by getting him, they were also able to go to Tyler Smith and say, okay. Look. You concentrate on being one of the most dominant guard young guards in the game. Keep going on your career path. Don't worry about left tackle this year. We're we're gonna keep you where you are. I I wouldn't be I look, I I think they're gonna wanna see Shelton a little bit and make sure it's not an over but I I think if they see enough from Shelton, I think you will hear very soon that, oh, you know, Tyler, stay stay where you are. Let let's just keep this. And we believe in Guighton, so let's go from there. Whether it's a believe in Guighton or, hey, Shelton's good enough where he can we're good there, I think that's as much it as anything. The Cowboys hired Christian Parker to be their defensive coordinator on January 22. He he he's had a little over three months to settle in, meet all the old players from the defense, explain to the scouts what he wanted in this draft, train his own staff in what he wanted, teach the returning players about the new systems, then go through the draft. It's the first time he'll ever call defensive plays. Are are we expecting too much from Christian Parker? I mean, it's hard to say he's Superman. Oh, there's there's a lot of excitement there from the fan base. The excitement is strictly look. And I think there are a lot of strong attributes about Christian Parker. This is in no way a a criticism of him. You talk to people around the league who, have, you know, have a long resume and have been in this league for a while. They're very impressed by this guy and what he can do and his ability to communicate. All of that is possible positive. This in no what I'm about to say, no way impugns him or undercuts any of that. But there are a lot of outstanding defensive coordinators in this league who have been doing what they've been doing for ten, fifteen, twenty years. As you said, he's been very impressive in three months. Three months. He is not called a defense yet. And and we talked about this, you know, I think while we were doing the draft, everyone's going, oh, well, he's going to run this defense. Or how do we know what defense he's going to run? We know what defensive principles he's grounded in, what schemes he's comfortable with. But just like let's say if he's the next Ben Johnson of defensive coordinators. Ben Johnson still took from other schemes and then made it his own, right, and has a different strain just like McKay, McVeigh did before him when the ring you know, if Christian Parker is really an innovator and where defense is going potentially is a lot of people seem to think he's at the forefront of, we're gonna see something a little bit different than we've seen before. I I think it'll be very similar to to Vic Fangio and and come off of that tree. But just like the West Coast deep offense evolved and all of this, I mean, I think you're gonna see, an evolution of the Fangio system with him. So we don't know exactly what it is or how he's going to approach it yet, but, the the early signs are encouraging. All that being said, a first time coordinator who has never called defensive plays before? Yes. I think that's a lot to ask of somebody that this is you know, Dan Quinn made this thing over pretty quick, but he'd been a defensive coordinator on the Super Bowl winning team and a head coach in the league. This is Christian Parker's first time in this position. More with David Moore in just a minute. Stolen water media is making a move. After two plus years, it's time to change and keep up with our growth. You can continue to view all eight of our podcasts on our Patreon pages. But now you can get all episodes at www.stolenwatermedia.com. This is a developing story, but you can begin by watching and listening right now at www.stolenwatermedia.com. Continue to find all audio wherever you find your favorite podcasts, and some you may not have heard of, but I think will enjoy. Are you just wondering where your next spectacular vacation will be? Relax. Feel the sun on your body. Let your cares melt away at the all inclusive Cerenian Bay Resort in Southern Belize. It's literally built right on the sand. The ocean, your ocean, is just a few barefoot steps away. Laid back luxury, terrific food, a swim up bar, a spa, air conditioned gym, unimaginable service, fishing, snorkeling in gorgeous turquoise waters. Do you want relaxation or do you need adventure? You choose at Sirenian Bay. Mary and I have been there three times and this summer will be number four. Take a cozy bungalow for two or bring the whole family to villas that can accommodate up to 14. Sirenianbay.com, sirenian. The sand and the sea are just waiting for you to get here. David, one of the most polarizing players in in the Cowboys roster is George Pickens. He had his problems in Pittsburgh. The Cowboys traded for him. He did great here last year. And then he was a free agent, and the Cowboys franchise tagged him. Loads of players don't like to be franchise tagged. If he were free, he'd make a giant amount of money. Does George Pickens have a future here, or will he simply price him out of that? I I think is to you know, really what happened was in in in my mind, you kind of exchanged when Dallas moved on from Micah Parsons in part because they found it difficult to maintain the integrity of the depth of their team by signing, by having so many high salary contracts at the top. Pickens came in and performed at a level that puts them in the exact same spot they found themselves with Parsons last year. And you can avoid it this year because, again, he was a third round pick. So what he was making as a third round pick jumping to the franchise tag is a significant jump. But all of these players' careers are so short, they want the long term security. I look. I think that C. D. Lamb and George Pickens are an ideal pairing because I I think their games complement each other and they get along and they have the ability when one guy is off, the other guy picks it up and they can kinda go back and forth. It really is kind of a one a and a one b rather than a defined one and then a secondary receiver. And I think temperamentally, that's good for both of them financially going forward. I just don't know that you can pay both of them at the level that is going to require to keep George Pickens and still keep a semblance of a of a deep, well balanced team together. Players generally do not like the franchise tag. They they like to be free and get a big contract. George Pickens in this marketplace may have gone for four years and 140,000,000 and 100 guaranteed. Well, I think that's a very realistic idea of what he would have gotten. Yeah. So so players often, they they don't like the franchise tag, and they'll revolt as much as they can from it. They'll skip the off season workouts. They'll be late to training camp if they arrive at all. But very quickly, two weeks ago, Pickens agreed to sign the salary cap, and all those concerns disappeared. But that came, as I recall, a day or two after Jerry and Steven met with his agent, David Mulligata, and they said they had a wonderful conversation. Mike, that conversation have been. Tell George to sign the franchise tag, and we will not franchise tag him again next year. Oh, I I think yeah. I don't think you would have heard a willingness to do that unless there was some assurance down the line. And so, you know, this will only we're not going to tie him down in perpetuity and then let him go and decrease his market value. That's a very my belief is, yeah, Stephen and Jerry went, that's a fair and reasonable thing. We won't do it again. And because you've seen this franchise do it again a couple of times, they did it with Dak Prescott. They did it with Anthony Spencer, the linebacker. And then when Spencer was up on the second one, it was basically he didn't have the the flexibility to get the long term deal. So, yeah, I I think it's I think that's very real. I I think they also let I I think it's also like, well, well, look, you understand where we are cap wise here and and signing George Pickens after one good season to more money than C. D. Lamb, who's right next to him, who had more good seasons than George Pickens has had for us. You see that the bond that puts us in. But we'll franchise him. Let's play this out. You get another year with Dak Prescott. You put two years together, and then we've we we will sign you to a deal and trade you or you'll be on the open market. And I think that would be enough because again, he is getting close to 28,000,000 this year on the franchise tag, which I will point out as all season workouts, voluntary all season workouts begin today and players arrive at the star. Just as the time we were filming this, George Pickens had not signed that, franchise tag yet and had not shown up for the voluntary workouts today. Finally, I know Cowboy fans are jazzed about the draft pay the draft, and why shouldn't they be adding Caleb Downs and several other players? But, David, we should point out every team in the National Football League got better through the draft. Yes. And as and I think there is a because we all tend to, like, reduce and put things into boxes because we're all juggling so much information and everything. And and I think everyone left last year, and understandably so, with the idea offense good, defense bad, fixed defense, fixed defense, Dallas will be fine. But go back and look offensively what that offense didn't do in the second half of games. You know, I think everyone's just kind of taken the attitude, throw numbers at defense, get defense, but just bring defense up to middle of the league a little bit better. With that offense, it'll be great. Well, defensive coordinators have had a year to study what Dallas did offensively last year that worked. By and large, they're coming back with the same offensive talent in Nucleus. Some of those schemes aren't going to work. Now they can do things differently and they will, but I'm just saying there's no assurance they will be as explosive and efficient offensively as they were last year. And I will still say this, even though they were a very, very good offense, look how many times in the second half of games they were shut out. And that is not what a good offense does. Yep. David, we really appreciate your time. And I tell you what, let's meet next year to star again for another draft. We can do that. Three days or so sounds good to me. See you, buddy. See you. Thanks so much, Norm. And now a word from our title sponsor. Today's episode has been brought to you by Fluent Financial. Retire earlier, live better. And by Bob's Steak and Chophouse on Lemon in Dallas and in Craig Ranch in McKinney. Bob's, a Dallas tradition for more than thirty years. If you've enjoyed just wondering, please hit follow and a fresh new episode will land in your mailbox early every Monday, Wednesday and Friday morning. Should you know a sports fan who might like our work? Please share our contact information with that person. Thanks for listening to today's episode of Just Wondering. I'm Norm Hitschkes, and know that every day I'll be just wondering about something. And I'm Mary Hitchgis, and I'll just be wondering too. This is a Stolen Water Media production.