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In this must-listen episode of Talent Takeover Unfiltered, hosts Brianna Rooney and Taylor Bradley, along with special guest Kerrie, take a deep dive into the transformative journey of a recruiter's role. 🌟
🔥 Episode Focus:
- The evolution from a conventional to a more assertive, strategic recruitment approach.
- Embracing difficult conversations for better business outcomes.
- Personal growth and the impact of adapting one's approach in a professional setting.
Join us for an episode full of real talk, relatable experiences, and practical advice that will resonate with anyone in the recruitment industry or anyone looking to make a mark in their professional life. 🎧
👉 Subscribe now to Talent Takeover Unfiltered for a fresh perspective on recruitment and career success!
#TalentTakeoverUnfiltered #RecruitmentPodcast #CareerAdvice #Empowerment
Creators & Guests
Host
Brianna Rooney
I am the CEO and Founder of TalentPerch, Techees Recruiting, The Millionaire Recruiter, and now Thriversity. My vision for the last 14 years has been to change the way the World views the Recruiting Industry. Even though I have two little kids, I remain firm on maintaining a work-life balance. I believe you can be as successful at work, as you are at home. You don’t have to choose. The choice is, to be present and rock everything you do!
Host
Guest
Kerrie Juels
I have been in working in Talent Acquisition since 2006, previous to that I was a social worker. I have worked mainly in the technology/startup space. There was a break in there to spend time with my 3 sons. For the last seven years I have been at Formlabs, a company that is the forefront of making 3d printers. I'm passionate about making sure we have a good fit on both sides when filing a role. This requires working closely with hiring managers and understanding the business needs to ensure we are connecting people with the right role.
What is Takeover Unfiltered?
Want the raw, unapologetic realities of reclaiming your life? Then tune into the Takeover Unfiltered podcast hosted by yours truly, Brianna Rooney, The Millionaire Recruiter, and Taylor Bradley, The Humble Hustler. We're pulling back the curtain on our personal lives and sharing the ups, downs, and everything in between. From navigating relationships to juggling self-care routines, we're laying it all out on the table. We're all about taking control and making sh*t happen.
Expect raw, candid talks, seasoned with uncensored language. It's time to own your journey, embrace the chaos, and unleash your inner badass. Buckle up, because we're about to take you on a wild ride to self-discovery and empowerment. But don't worry, we're still dishing out some valuable insights into the recruiting world. It's all about finding that balance between work and play, and we're here to show you how it's done.
Ready to kick ass and rewrite the rule book? Grab your favorite drink, cozy up, and join us for some real talk you won't want to miss!
welcome to Talent takeover unfiltered
when it comes to working hard and
keeping it real we know our [ __ ]
self-care happiness inner peace and time
I'm Brianna Rooney and this is Taylor
Bradley hey y'all and we have thrived in
chaos and turn it into an art form so
Taylor what are we doing here today
we're here to give you a raw under the
hood view of all things recruiting and
finally give credit where credit is due
to a long underrated industry that's
full of quote unquote experts all right
well then let's take this show to the
road hello welcome to Talent takeover
unfiltered we have such an amazing
session today because the title is no
more Mrs nice recruiter this is
featuring Carrie jwes and of course the
one and only Taylor Bradley hello
everyone hello hi how you doing Carrie
good getting ready for the holidays that
sort of thing
I love that can you see
the reference here love that so let's
okay I I'm I'm trying to even think how
we start this episode so yeah we're
talking about really I and and I know
we've already done like the power of
recruiting that how do we talk to H
maners we've kind of touched on all this
but this is kind of reiterating it and I
would say more from a how like we don't
want to get run over we have a job to do
and we can't let anyone affect our
ability to do our jobs so correct talk
me through that yeah so CU kind of what
we talked about is you know the the end
point that the conclusion that I came to
at 51 when I was in a room with other
managers who were all men at that time
was I needed to talk like them I needed
to talk like a man and regardless of all
the like de Andi things and all that
about it but like I needed to speak
their language to get my point across CU
my point was valid and my point was
meaningful and it was important for the
business it wasn't about ego it wasn't
about like being right or wrong it was
genuinely what was right for the
business and in this point in this one
time it was like whether or not we
pursue a role like do we shut down this
role which will impact the it had as a
leadership role so it impact it had a
lot of impact and for me to get my
message across I had to do it in a way
that they hurt and for me speaking like
a man means I'm going to say it even
though it contradicts what you just said
and it's in a group and it's not going
to it's might make you look bad but you
know what they do it to each other and
they don't care I cared and so when I
Was preparing for us to talk about this
I would listen to your other podcasts
and kind of really trying to understand
and what really came through Taylor was
when you were talking you had a friend
that was like pushing your boundaries
and having that really upfront talk to
say hey this is my boundary and you had
another Gentleman on his name was
Dominic and I don't remember his last
name and the question you asked him Bri
is how do you'd be confident and he was
like I don't know and it's like the
Dominics of the world they're boring
with it I have my middle kid there's
nothing you can say to him like he just
came out of the gate he's never crushed
um but for people like me like being
able to come to that conclusion that you
have permission to contradict like it
took me a long time and it takes and so
this I'm hoping we will have meaningful
nuggets for people who just don't
naturally have it in their DNA you can
learn it you can be that outspoken
person you can be that confident person
in the room but it's a skill you have to
work at and you may have other skills
that those people don't and that this is
something that I have to work at all the
time like it's not this is so good I
know I was like I'll let you go first
like so I'm I I want to hear like how
did you work I'm so intrigued for people
that are not naturally that way because
I I truly did think like you're either
this way or you're not you either tell
it like it is or you I mean I've just
that's how I've always been and how I've
always who I've surrounded myself with
you kind of are this type of Personality
or you're not so I'm dying to hear like
how did you work on that three years
like it really took a long time I come
from a social work background and
communication's really important but I
really was like this is the thing I was
thinking about is like how do I start
someone who's 22 and new to the room and
can't go into the room and being like
are is the strategy here not make sense
but you know that's the the things you
need to work off as you start or working
oneto one working with your manager and
not taking on a room full of people and
understanding your business so I think
for recruiters understanding space and
being good at your space and knowing
your data um and then understanding your
business and being able to reference it
and taking that conversation Ono one and
get really good at your onetoone
conversations um and you re build it
over time and to me the the the big
moment was when it was when a room with
eight laders like if that room went down
form Labs would no longer exist that the
company to work for like it would be
done um and being able to speak up and
contradict in that space you don't start
off there you start off one to one to be
like okay and we all have those meetings
as recruiters with hiring managers who
want to send you down a crazy path um
and you have to reel them back in and
the thing that I always go back to in my
core is is this a good strategy is this
strategy going to yield the result and I
think about that before I go into a
meeting and before like the here what I
was like what's the right strategy for
us to get the output that we want and so
you get those correct thinking p
patterns it allows you to take the
emotionality out of it which is a lot of
what I have to do cuz I emote first um
and speaking through emotions and ego it
does is not helpful and we've all dealt
with people who aren't managing that um
and you really kind of practice at it
you're going to have good conversations
you're going to have bad conversations
but if you go at it with good faith
you'll get better at it over time to
have these hard discussions to
contradict somebody's belief um because
a lot of times in recruiting it's this
crazy space where it's so data driven
but I feel like a lot of our role is
like anecdotally a manager will be like
well this is what I believe and you're
like well first of all I don't have my
charts with me to show you that maybe it
isn't it's anecdotal right I've talked
to a 100 people they they didn't reflect
what you're saying to me but I don't
have it written down so
experiential but being strategic about
what behavior in you that you want to
gain is it being able to contradict well
being able to speak up and doing that in
a onetoone space and knowing that what
data that you have to have ready at your
fingertips to be able to do that so what
I'm loving from this is permission to
contradict because we've been talking
about look it's a conversation not a
confrontation you know and like you know
um I know we like we got this on postes
right all over no hey it's just a
conversation we're just walking the Ser
but contradicting someone like you don't
even think like wow that's actually that
can be confrontational right and so as
you're in this Mega room how do you do
you wait your turn or do you you know
intersect yourself like it's like you
got to follow the culture of the room
and in our culture it is very like you
know con like interrupt and um but be
professional and you match the room and
one thing I want to share in all of this
this is not dealing with someone who's
toxic like that is a whole different
that's a different conversation when you
have talked that this is dealing with
professionals who are all have the same
goal as you and now working toward Wards
it um and you have to match the culture
of the room a little bit and that's what
we I feel like good recruiters do is we
match the culture of who we're talking
with if I am with a technical person I'm
going to be very different than if I'm
with a creative person um and so you
have to read the room on the culture um
and then understand if the culture isn't
helping us what are the baby steps we
can do to change culture because culture
is not going to change on a light switch
yeah it's way it's way heavier than that
so I I'm just envisioning especially if
this isn't your nature right I'm just
thinking of all the anxiety you're
sweating got you need your extra
deodorant on with but how do you I'm
almost thinking it as like a game like
how do you get yourself pumped to
essentially act like someone you know
internally that's not your nature so how
do you go into that room and be like
here we go I'm going into war right now
how do you get ready for that I think
it's knowing and predicting when it's
going to happen where you can I you know
we do have we're reasonably predictable
we know what these meetings are we know
we can prepare um and being and
practicing and knowing what you need to
practice on is it that they're asking
you to look for a candidate that doesn't
meet their needs come prepared with
here's a couple different profiles so I
think preparation is key um and I think
practice is key and I think that you
knowing that behavior for you that like
you want to be better at these you have
to prepare um to a certain extent to
enter into these conversations so you're
not blindsided cuz what happens is if
you avoid the conflict you're going to
follow what they tell you it's not going
to end well and you own that poor
recruiting
process that's a good point so my my
stepdad um was always like a business
mentor to me he's an entrepreneur and so
I'm just envisioning like going into war
and and I actually I I have a bracelet
that says wwbd what would Blake do so I
feel like that's how like you go in
what's John doing what's Steve doing
today like how would how would he handle
this conversation you know is is this
heavy with does with impostor syndrome
does that ever come creeping in like how
do you say like no thanks this is still
me um you know I I will be honest I see
the impostor syndrome and I never
connected with it in the sense of um
maybe it's it's something that I always
am trying to be better at what I do and
and we always should have a version of
it like I don't I don't know how to
articulate it that like I'm always
looking at myself and maybe I do have it
maybe I don't have it but for me to be
better in this role like this is the the
goal I have to achieve um and so
sometimes we have to be uncomfortable
versions of ourselves to get it whether
it's we have to be harder or we have to
be softer or if we have to be these
things but for most for many women um or
people that being confront of and I
shouldn't say just women being
confrontive is really hard um and this
role to do well in a lot of times you
have to do it I I don't know that's my
experience that like I have to be
confront of and being like this type of
candidate you have is two in the world
what are we going to do and they're like
we're going to wait it okay then I will
just report back you know my stats and
we're going to do it that way and we
have we're on the same page like that
sort of thing hope that's helpful no it
is it's so interesting to hear other
people's experiences CU I think so much
about this going back to what we
originally were talking about or how we
started the conversation it's like so
much of it is who you are I think a lot
of it is how you grew up and how you
were raised if you were one of those
people that was like allowed to speak
your opinion or if it's like you know
children are to be seen not heard you
know that old school mental you know
what I mean and I was always the kid
growing up and I'm Bri will laugh when I
say this but I was like why why why like
I always ask why so anytime we would do
anything at work I'm like why you know
just I have to see to understand but I
you know Carri that into who I am as an
adult as well like I need to understand
what good is this going to accomplish
what purpose is I just strategy it's a
it's a curiosity thing it's not that I'm
like trying to undermine anybody or
criticize them I just am always I I need
to understand it's something that will
like eat away at me if I'm like but why
did we do it like that I just need to
understand but in my experience which I
feel like I maybe have been fortunate to
have where I I felt like I could speak
up but it was over time so that's one
thing a piece of advice that I would
give listeners is that I think you I
think people actually will respect you
more when you speak up but I do feel
there is a time and a place and a like a
a I don't know a probationary period so
to speak like whenever you're you first
join a company in your first 90 days
you're not going to be in a room with
seites and chiming in you know I think
you have to like there has to be some
time where you've built Rapport and
respect and trust with people before
they'll even be receptive of your
opinion or your Insight even if you know
what's best because you're the subject
matter expert in XYZ you know and your
title reflects that your experience
reflects that they know they don't
they're in engineering you know it's
just two different two different apples
right or apples and oranges but I do
think that you have to with any job you
have to have established a certain
amount of Rapport and respect before
your voice can even be heard corre and I
always wonder does that apply to men as
well or that's what I was just going to
push you I'm like maybe not because I
will tell you I don't think it does cuz
how many new managers come into me and
they're typically male to be like I have
ideas and because I have long tenure
where I'm at and I feel like I'm an
experienced person I'm like that is
terrific let me tell you what we're
going to do and then you can tell me how
that matches and I'm way more forceful
now s years in than I was year one like
I don't even entertain it like I'm just
like no we're just I've been doing this
role we we know um I couldn't not get
away with that day you know year one
month one just know and you you have to
build that all the time but should I go
to a new role in sometime in the future
I'm happy we I'm at but should I go to a
new one I think I could get to that
Rapport building way faster than I could
before and I think experiential and
that's why I think it's something if
it's you have to know if confrontation
is hard for you you don't get to you
shouldn't be avoiding confrontations you
should be building the skills so that
you can have them because addressing it
and that's what this is is like for me
it took me to 51 to be like oh I just
got to talk like them because they don't
care they don't care I'm actually going
to challenge what you said though and
say it's not avoiding confrontation it's
avoiding a conversation it's because
just yeah just approaching with your
opinion or asking why it's not
confrontational you're seeking to
understand or you're offering your
Insight but I think the way you said it
is what most people believe is that
anytime you say something or challenge
it's a confrontation when it's it's not
and Taylor here's where I will will
counter you in a nice way is that you
you don't feel it confrontive for me 20
years ago it it would have felt totally
confrontive to just really it comes from
that that the DNA thing like it's just
way as I like in my perfect little
bubble if I was like a step out of
college I would be like I wanted to be a
social worker and help people guess what
the first thing you learned in social
work school you're setting boundaries
you're telling people to convincing them
things they want to do the last thing
you need to be is nice you want to be
supportive and emotive and empathetic
but you're not going to be what's
classified as nice which is compliant to
other you know can be defined as
compliant to other people so getting to
the point of understanding it is a
conversation was actually one of the
steps in the journey for me to be good
at having hard conversations is to
understand it was a conversation and not
a confrontation but it felt like
confrontation to me but I had to take
that emotionality down and the way and
get it to the strategy strategic
business need and it's that that is a
mental switch in me and taking that
emotionality out so how do you even know
that's you just being emotional you know
because like I I look at it as um when
we're talking about nice well everyone
wants to be a nice person y you know so
it's like okay that just it's same like
with selfish no that's self-care you
know I feel like we're constantly trying
to reframe how we um see and feel words
so how do you even start that process
that's a the heavy one I
think me
yeah you're the star of our show um you
know I think it's one of those things is
where you know you learn over time it's
like you know is it hitting my ego do I
want to be light why is the my feelings
hurt like why am I feeling something
less than positive right and then I'm
like they did they they're just giving
me information they they're not sneaking
to who I am as a human they're it's it's
a business transaction that is you who
is receiving it so I think really
getting good at gauging what's your
internal what's going on and where it's
coming from um is critically important
it helps you in your your work but it
will help you in your private life too
to be like he just stepped on a nerve
but that nerve is actually you know
installed by my mom you know like yeah
you got to kind of like weed through
that and that's why I think for some
people it's a really long process to get
to these these uh to the to be able to
have hard conversations but hopefully
you know hijacking the process a little
bit and sharing here to be like hey you
know you can have these hard
conversations you can talk like the
other people that you see around them
and you can join that culture um and
speak that way so I have a question so
you know it's it's often said and in
some of my experience I found it to be
true that if you're a woman you speak up
or your director blunt you're a [ __ ] so
I'm just going to call a SP to Spade so
ever since you've on this journey and
where you've got to the point that you
are now where you you speak up and
you'll have those conversations do you
feel like the perception of you has
changed and shifted is it that you know
Carrie's a [ __ ] or is it like oh wow we
really see Carrie speaking up like
because you've built all this Rapport
and credibility yeah one I think
society's move forward a little bit so
let's give credit like we're like a
little bit um but it's I'm a challenger
right and it's I you can call me that
but I will challenge you and and say why
and make me understand the strategy and
I will push forward and you know what
I'm not here to be light I'm here to do
a good job and I'm here for the business
and that is I genuinely like what I do
which is putting people in jobs that
they're happy at like that's what I
that's what I that's what I care about
so I think if you're able to withstand
that you know people not liking and
loving you um if you're love language is
being told how wonderful you are than
like you know working with technical
World technical people that's not the
one like they're they they appreciate
what you do you did your job yay but
they're they're not going to moot over
you um and uh that's not the drive that
I need my drive is I really love the
technology and I really love getting
people I think it's so important to get
people happy in the roles because it's
they spend more time with their family
there than with their families and if
they can go home with a happy heart of
how they spent their day it's so much
more impactful and so I truly believe
I'm doing social work if I can get
someone happy in their role and it it
works for them and the business that's
what I care about I don't care what
people call me a [ __ ] go ahead she so
crazy that we can't be at all you know
that we can't be liked and direct that
we can't be liked and have the best
interest of the business and just
challenge opinions or thoughts or
perspective in the what's in looking out
for the best interest of the business I
think yes I agree there's been some
progress some slight progress but with
regards to women just being [ __ ] for
being correct but when you said it
you're like I'm a challenger and I'm
like I wouldn't even call it that you
know you're just offering insight you're
trying to help understand so that you
can accomplish what's best for the
business but the fact that it's like it
would be even labeled as a challenger
because you're offering your perspective
or maybe your perspective might
contradict with someone else it doesn't
mean you're challenging it you're just
offering a different perspective you
know so I still think it it could be
framed up negatively even though it's
not meant to be it could when you're a
woman it's just a little bit different
of how those approaches are perceived by
people yeah and yeah I 100% agree and
then that's also why it's difficult for
people to get on this journey to learn
what they need to do to have discussions
because of that but the benefit of being
able to do it is to me far greater than
the perception the few who might be you
know well she's challenging to work with
yeah yeah so do you find that um
throughout this journey that you've gone
through you know do you find that you're
able to or it it changed the way that
you respond to
feedback
um yes I mean I feel like any person but
I don't I think it's more holistic than
that than versus uh me being able to I
say personal feedback when I hear
feedback I mean personally how I'm doing
things yes it does you have to leave
yourself open if you're going to go out
there and give challenging info you're
going to get it back yeah um but I want
to be better I'm not here to be the same
as it was yesterday if you're going to
take me away from my kids then like I
got to be doing better cuz I don't want
to I'm not done with my career at 51 I
still have a long time left like I
expect to grow and if I'm not growing
like what's the point like let me be
with my kids and I'll figure it out I'll
get a like smaller lifestyle and you
know being mom like if you're taking me
away from my kids I have to be in a a
trajectory that's positive for me yeah I
love it I feel like this is all kind of
encompassing well a couple things one
Taylor I'm surprised you didn't say
feelings are not facts so that's
something that she brought she brought
to me a couple years ago and like I
actually just told myself that last
night because I was like kind of going
down this bad journey and uh I'm like
nope my feeling is not a fact facts are
not feelings you know it goes both ways
and so I definitely think that that um
you know I'm thinking of it now but also
I think what I'm hearing is you go back
to your mission and your mission is I am
a badass at my job M and here's my
mission I I bring amazing careers to
people you know like like you said like
they could they could be anywhere right
you could stay at home but you choose to
go to work and you choose to do that but
you know um talk about the proess
progression of being a [ __ ] is my
really like best friend director of
marketing has been in this you know in
her journey for a long time and she
always would get on the special projects
the things that really push the needle
at the company right like and she got
all this recognition for it yet at the
end of the year I got a review and she's
like yeah and they actually said this to
her for btim we love the work you do can
you be less of a [ __ ] about it and I
was like they did not call you a [ __ ]
he's like swear to God and I was like oh
my God so I'm just thinking of so many
things car W Taylor while you're talking
I'm just like God we're have we made
progress maybe like I I don't know maybe
uh maybe some people have you know um so
I I love to see and love to hear that
you've made progress because like you
said it is a journey it's a con journey
and it's it's one it's a road that you
have to take especially where we're not
the tailor of the world where it comes
naturally a little bit more you know
naturally [ __ ] yeah to just naturally
step on that and to be like and if
you're someone who's listening and and
is you know shies away from that like
that's the cute for you to like get on
that path the benefit far aways being
called a [ __ ] I don't care like the
benefit outweighs it like my skills have
grown because I can do this my ability
to go in and and call like get us to a
strategy that will have an outcome is
why you know I am worth what I believe
I'm worth so me sitting there and
worrying about what you think no me
being able to better communicate what
we're working on and what we're working
towards is what you the business wants
out of me and hopefully while you were
hired yeah and while you be hired again
yeah Taylor I think it's about that time
I no I love that there was about a
million things that you said that I was
like that could be a broke to boss tip
that's a good one that's a good one I
mean it just flows so organically with
you Carri but um give them your official
broke to boss
tip I think if it's scary do it like get
out there do the prep Do It um learn
what you need to learn and don't be
don't be afraid that if it takes you
longer to learn it like give yourself
the space to keep trying and keep trying
and keep trying no one gets this
whatever you're working on in a minute
um and you just got to keep going at it
just keep trying love that y I love it
love it it goes back to if you haven't
listened to our episode of getting 1%
better every day please listen to that
it's great and it's going to Encompass
all of this so um everyone thank you so
much for listening if you have enjoyed
this podcast please share it with all of
your ta and recruiting friends and
Carrie thanks again so much Taylor as
always awesome time all right thanks
y'all thank you bye