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Join Dr. Kim Kutsch, the brilliant mind behind CariFree, as he explores the extraordinary lives of thought leaders in the dental industry, and beyond. Contrary to Ordinary explores further than dentistry - here we unravel the minds of change-makers, paradigm shifters, and world shakers.
Every two weeks, we dive into the stories of our remarkable guests—ordinary people who continually defy limits. Discover their tales of success, resilience, and self-awareness, and explore how they leverage these experiences not only to elevate dental practice and patient care but also to champion personal growth and entrepreneurship. Listen for captivating conversations with innovators who seamlessly blend art and technology, pursue curiosity, and create the truly extraordinary.
Contrary to Ordinary isn't your typical dentistry podcast—it's a vibrant community that's hit #1 in ‘Entrepreneurship,’ #3 in ‘Business,’ and #21 in ‘All Podcasts’ for a reason. We've had the pleasure of hosting inspiring guests like innovators, dental leaders, pioneering inventors, and artists, including Angus Walls, Machell Hudson, Dr. Simon McDonald, Dr. Bobby Birdi, Rella Christensen, Professor Phillip D. Marsh, Carmen Ohling, John Kois, Dr. Susan Maples, Doug Young, Colt Idol, Stephanie Staples, and many more who've graced our mic.
Each episode isn't just a listen; it's a lesson in living an extraordinary life authentically, embracing rebellion, and nurturing leadership. We dive into diverse topics, from mentoring, coaching, personal development, and work-life balance to self-awareness, emotional intelligence, leadership, storytelling, altruism, and motivation. And yes, we also cover dentistry—exploring natural dentists, dental health, dental laboratories, oral care, oral surgery, dental hygiene, caries disease, brushing teeth, and overall tooth care.
Tune in to Contrary to Ordinary for a unique blend of wisdom that goes beyond the ordinary and resonates with all aspects of life! This podcast aims to empower you to be extraordinary in your dental practice and improve not just your dental care but your overall life!
Do you have an extraordinary story you’d like to share with us? Or perhaps a question for Dr. Kutsch. Contact us on our Instagram, Facebook or Twitter today.
About Our Host:
Meet Dr. Kim Kutsch: a retired dentist with 40 years of experience, prolific writer, thought leader, inventor, and researcher in dental caries and minimally invasive dentistry, brings his insatiable curiosity to the forefront. Eager to learn from those breaking boundaries in dentistry, particularly in preventative and non-invasive dentistry approaches, Dr. Kutsch launched the Contrary to Ordinary podcast. As a keen creative and curious mind, Dr. Kutsch extends his podcast guest list to artists, entrepreneurs, and fascinating minds who have piqued his interest. He wants to learn from them and see how he can be inspired by their extraordinary ways of living and adapt his learnings into his own life and his business, CariFree.
About CariFree:
CariFree is the new model for oral health and cavity prevention. Dr. Kutsch is the CEO and founder of this business. They create cutting-edge technology and science-based solutions to common dental health concerns for the whole family, making it easy to banish cavities for good with preventive strategies over restorative procedures. Find out how dentists are using CariFree products to revolutionize their dental practices here: https://carifree.com/success-stories/.
Recording:
Extraordinary.
Leader.
Innovative.
Integrity.
Honest.
Courageous.
Curious.
Thoughtful.
Brave.
Unafraid.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
There is a place where technology and art meet, where work and play are one and the same. When the threads of curiosity are pulled in this place, the spark of innovation ripples across industries. Those who make this place their home are giants, titans who pursue creative passion while leaving their mark.
Recording:
Creative.
Flexible.
Brilliant.
Clever.
Confident.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
They are courageous thought leaders set on changing the practice of dentistry in their corner of the world. More than the sum of their parts, we deconstruct the traits that bind these uncommon innovators.
Recording:
Humble.
Daring.
Disciplined.
Playful.
Principled.
Spontaneous.
Open.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
To discover what makes them contrary to ordinary, where we explore the extraordinary. Hi there. I'm Dr. Kim Kutsch, host and founder at CariFree. I'm fascinated by what makes the paradigm shifters, world shakers, and art-makers tick.
Let's embark on a journey. Extraordinary is a place where ordinary people choose to exist. Together we will track the peaks of possibility, illuminate the depths of resilience, and navigate the boundless landscape of innovation to discover how some of the most innovative dentists and thought leaders unlocked their potential and became extraordinary.
On this season of Contrary to Ordinary, we explore the motivation, lives, and the character of innovators who see limitless potential around them; the people behind some of the largest paradigm shifts in the practice of dentistry.
I always say you can't have a healthy body if you don't have a healthy mouth. After all, it is the gateway into the body. There's a huge movement right now to better understand what's called the oral-systemic health connection. It's the study of the relationship between oral health and overall health.
An example is how gum disease is shown to increase the risk of heart disease. Dr. Susan Maples is a leader in the area of total health, with over 30 years of experience in dentistry. As a child, Susan was exposed to large quantities of second-hand smoke and suffered from severe allergies.
Through mentorship and guidance from a few key medical professionals early on in her journey, Susan began a path to improve total health. Today, Susan is giving back by mentoring children to have better total health throughout their lives.
At Susan's practice, her Hands-on Learning Lab, she emphasizes the importance of optimal oral health and nutrition. She also encourages children to consider a career like hers in dentistry. The right education and the right experience early on can entirely change the way we see the world and how we approach the rest of our lives. Susan created the Hands-on Learning Lab with that end in mind.
Dr. Susan Maples:
The idea for us is to have kids who graduate high school with as few teeth filled as possible and skills, beliefs, and behaviors for a lifetime of health. And it used to be just oral health, now it's total health.
When they go off in the world, whether they leave our practice to go to college or whether they leave our practice to go to work or they move, we want the kids who, as a result of being in our practice for their years, have all the tools they need in their tool chest to go off and lead a long, healthy life without running into tooth decay, metabolic disease, heart disease, obesity, diabetes, depression, addiction, you name it. Right?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. Give them the tools so they can stay healthy.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Be healthy and stay healthy.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Susan Maples:
So it started with tooth decay. What I realized is that we learned in dental school way back that polishing teeth wasn't efficacious. Selective polishing has been around for a long time. We should only be polishing for stain and stain alone.
And then if you've watched the literature, polishing healthy biofilm off teeth and removing the fluoride-rich layer of enamel that we've built up with topical fluoride isn't helpful. And the fluoride absorption doesn't require the biofilm being denuded.
So we started maybe before 2000, maybe 1998, we started staining the plaque on kids' teeth with two-one, pink and purple, old and new plaque. We started staining it and allowing them to choose whatever they wanted to clean their teeth with, with a huge array of choices, just like you were standing in the grocery store or the Right Aid and you're picking out what you want to buy. Right?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yep.
Dr. Susan Maples:
And then in a mentored approach to self-care, we watched that child in a lighted, magnified mirror, sitting up, not lying back in a chair, struggled to remove every last bit of plaque. And how are you going to do that without us intervening?
And then helping them by helping guide their hand, helping them see it, helping them figure out how to do it, do a [inaudible 00:05:10] every day. So instead of us doing it one day every six months, they're doing it every day. That makes a difference.
Then we took it one step further. We started incorporating science experiences into each and every visit for each and every child. So we have, I think, 80 science experiences that they can accomplish during the-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Run that by me again. How many?
Dr. Susan Maples:
80.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
80. Eight zero.
Dr. Susan Maples:
80.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So you have 80 experiments in this Learning Lab in your office that children can go do these experiments, and they learn about health by doing that.
Dr. Susan Maples:
We build a curriculum we did sort of a dossier of experiences for kids over their lifetime. And then by the time they're in high school, they can put on a white coat and follow me around and become part of the scene.
A lot of these kids have not had a lot of dentistry, so they have not seen it. 48 of the kids we've mentored now are dentists.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
48?
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So 48 kids that have come through your Learning Lab process in your practice have become dentists. You as a mentor to these young people to make that difference in 48 lives.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Well, and it's my team. Because the Learning Lab is the health relationship coordinator, the hygienist, we all use it. So it's pretty neat.
By the time they graduate high school, they've already learned how to do caries detection with a i .iw8wpi and place a sealant on an extracted tooth, and screw an implant in a model. But they've also done all kinds of cool things, looked under microscopes and looked at bacteria and looked at perio models, everything from nutrition and sugar consumption and acid-based chemistry. It's pretty crazy.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Susan is positively impacting the lives of hundreds of children through the work she's doing with her Hands-on Learning Lab. The impact of others on our lives, especially early on, can become drivers for change.
Sometimes early childhood experiences can be negative but lead us on a path to overcoming adversity that ultimately makes us stronger and more resilient.
Dr. Susan Maples:
My brother and I were 13 months apart. My brother was a healthy infant, but my mom expressed her anxiety to her physician who told her it would decrease her anxiety if she increased her smoking.
She doubled her smoking from one pack a day to two packs a day while she carried me, which resulted in my early delivery with premature lungs. And I spent three months in an oxygen tent. I don't know how much of that time I went home, but when I went home, of course, we were living in a smoke-filled little, tiny house. And second-hand smoke wasn't even a thing.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. Oh, no.
Dr. Susan Maples:
So my lips would turn blue and my nail beds would turn blue. They'd just get me back in the hospital. But then ultimately, I was able to stay home.
But I developed pretty quickly what we refer to now as the atopic march, eczema, allergies, asthmatic bronchitis, airway issues. I had 52 allergies. We lived in the country and I was allergic to everything; grass, trees, weeds, mold, all kinds of different things.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. Everything. Dust. Mites.
Dr. Susan Maples:
And today, one in 20 kids has allergies, which is a whole other conundrum. It's lifestyle-related. But in those days, I was a freak. Right?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Susan Maples:
I had allergy shots twice a week. I couldn't participate... They didn't really want me playing outside much. So I did indoor, creative stuff.
I was relatively sedentary and overweight by yesteryear standards. Developed what they called pre-diabetes. I was hospitalized seven times for pneumonia under the age of 12. I was just a very, very sick child, immunocompromised from tons of antibiotics, as you can imagine, and allergy shots.
My mom finished up her graduate degree and ended up taking a position with the college of osteopathic medicine as a psychologist. And we moved. And my pediatrician at the time said, "She cannot be with a pediatrician. She needs an internist."
So my mom, through worming through the whole system, found a physician who was completing, I guess, her residency, and agreed to take me on and scheduled the two-hour visit. And it was the beginning of the rest of my life. Pretty cool.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And that mentor, that person mentored you and really changed your life.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Unbelievable. Yeah. She listened to me.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Sick kids are very tough kids. They don't feel sorry for themselves. It takes a lot for me to cry even today. I'm pretty tough internally because you have an N of 1. You are the only one you know. It is your life.
And she started asking me to talk about... It wasn't until I started talking about the social aspects. First of all, having to say goodbye to my pets and having to not spend the night at my girlfriend's house because they had pets and feather pillows.
And then it was like, I don't want to stand next to people because people think I stink because of my... I had to sleep with medicine and my vaporizer all night and the smoke in my house. I have a big personality, and I was avoiding people.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. I can't imagine.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yeah. And she was like, "Oh, this is not going to work out for you." And so she basically said, "What would you be willing to do if I could help you get rid of all your medications and move on in life and be healthy and happy without it?"
I was like, "I don't think you could do that." She said, "I can't do that. I'm asking you what would you be willing to do?" And honestly, unless she had really broken me down to the point of tears and listening to myself, oftentimes as Rachel Remen would say, we're hearing ourselves for the first time when we're able to tell our story. Right?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Susan Maples:
And it doesn't sound... It's like, wow, you've got this sort of-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
It's almost like third-person talking kind of thing.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yeah. Yeah. You're like, "Wow. Listen to me." I don't complain and she's asking me to talk about the aspects of my life that are defunct, and there are plenty.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. Fascinating. Those challenges then, you had this huge challenge as a kid, as an adolescent, and probably learning how to work through those challenges has helped you with the challenges that you face now, would you say?
Dr. Susan Maples:
For sure. One thing that this particular physician didn't do is say, "Here's what you need, and I'll see you in six months," which is what we often do, right?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. Oh, yeah.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Our six-month recare is set up for who knows what? A Pepsodent commercial in the 1940s or something. There's no evidence that that's good or bad.
She basically continued to see me, to mentor me through it, which makes me believe that any adult in our life who cares about us enough could be a brave parent for us, a surrogate parent. She basically walked me back, empowered me to take the steps I needed to do to change my lifestyle to reflect health.
And in a fairly short handful of years, I became one of the healthiest people I know and have maintained that health through significant lifestyle change, which is how I know that kids are capable of being in the driver's seat.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Along with a physician who helped Susan to work through her health challenges, there was another medical professional who had a profound influence on her later vocation. She had an orthodontist who had polio and took her under his wing. He was also an iceboater. And once Susan regained her health, she pursued this sport.
Dr. Susan Maples:
I grew up a competitive iceboater.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Wait a minute, did you say iceboater?
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's a boat on ice skates.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So iceboating? I don't even know what that is.
Dr. Susan Maples:
It's a very lightweight wooden boat with a sail, and it's on three rudders.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Like ice skates?
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yes, very sharp.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Wow. Okay. Got it. Oh, I've seen that. Okay. Now I know what you're talking about.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
But for a second there, I was like, "An iceboat? Did I hear..." I was like, "Wait a minute." I'm tapping my headphones going, "Did I hear that correctly? Because I'm not even sure what that is." Okay. So you're from Michigan.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yep.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You grew up with a lot of ice. And your orthodontist was an iceboater.
Dr. Susan Maples:
At nine years old, I decided I wanted to be a dentist. I was in an orthodontic office and thought it was pretty cool. My orthodontist was an iceboater with us.
He suffered from polio. I liked him a lot. He took me under his wing. And I thought it was cool that he worked with kids and that he was working with his hands, which I love to do. My parents had been divorced. My mom had to go back to work to figure out what she was going to do.
But I wanted a career that was mine. I declared I wanted to do this, either dentistry or orthodontics, at nine years old. No one in my family had anything to do with any of this. And my parents told me right off the bat, they thought it was a very poor idea.
All my life, I heard my hands were always cold, my stomach makes a lot of noise when I'm hungry. I say "oops" after everything I do wrong. "This surely wouldn't work out for you." And what they really started to tell me later in high school was they just thought I was far too creative for dentistry. Dentistry, to them, looked like boy-scout, girl-scout land, following rules.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Susan Maples:
My dad was an entrepreneur businessman, built a factory for $29,000 when I was a kid. He was an aluminum manufacturer. My mom was a psychologist. Neither of them could figure out why I would choose dentistry. And it turned out that dentistry... I have to say, I bought a practice at 25 years old.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Okay.
Dr. Susan Maples:
My dad said, "Look, you're too creative to blueprint someone else. That would probably really not be a good move for you." And so I bought a practice for $77,000 is all. You can't even do a room for that, right?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Susan Maples:
And I asked the guy to leave before I started. And I kept two of his team members. And I just tried to figure it out. And that was a blessing.
But after about seven years, I got a little bit bored and I started to think, what would stop me from doing this the way I think it should be done? If something's not working, even before we had what we call evidence-based practice, the things we were doing seemed to me to be meaningless.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. They didn't work.
Dr. Susan Maples:
They didn't work.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Susan Maples:
And I couldn't figure out why I would want to keep doing something and charge them for it, which seemed ethically unsound to charge them for things that I knew weren't working. So yeah, break the mold, do what's meant to be done.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You said you don't ever see yourself retiring because you're still learning, you're always learning. Do you see yourself as a lifelong student? Is that one of your values?
Dr. Susan Maples:
Oh, totally. Totally. And sometimes I think I'm a slow learner because I get lost in my thoughts. I probably would've been labeled ADHD if there was such a thing. I squirrel out. I get an inspirational idea. I always have my computer in front of me. I miss what the person's saying for the next 10 minutes because I'm off developing. It's a little weird.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
But you follow through.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Oh, yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I've heard this so many times. "Oh, I'd like to... I'm going to write a book." And I've written a few books. I know what that takes, right? But I hear that. "Oh, I want to write a book. I'm going to write a book." And they never do.
And then the people coming on the podcast with me here, that are contrary to ordinary, actually write a book. They say something that they're going to do, and then they actually go do it. And I think that's a trait that is common with extraordinary individuals that I see.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Well, it also helps to have an amazing team. There's this rumor about dentistry that you can go to a conference and come home and be all excited and your team says, "Settle down. He'll be over it or she'll be over it in three days."
My team absolutely knows that my wild-ass ideas are going to be coming to fruition. And they're like, "Here we go."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Susan Maples:
We're on another magic carpet ride.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
There's a prevailing assumption that people who achieve great things are competitive by nature. Susan's collaborative spirit and focus on building a great team dispels this notion.
She's someone who is motivated to leave the world a better place than before she came into it. And her goal of improving total health is a huge part of that mission. So what drives Susan Maples?
Dr. Susan Maples:
I think that I'm driven by influence. I want to make a difference. I want to leave a legacy. I think the older we get, the more important that becomes to me.
I want my life to have stood for something, to see the world become better as a result of my contributions, knowing that I've made a difference. I was at an event the other day. We had 90 people in the audience, 120, but 90 of them who are hearing all of the oral-systemic stuff for the first time.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Wow.
Dr. Susan Maples:
And after I was finished speaking, I only spoke for two hours on two different subjects; metabolic disease, diabetes detection in the dental office. And then I spoke on pediatric microbiome deficiency and how it results in airway deficiency.
Those are two very random, specific... I mean, I could speak for seven days, as you know, straight without stopping and sleeping. Right?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Susan Maples:
But I turned my back afterwards and I turned around and there were 37 people around me clamoring for me too, saying, "Oh my gosh, my life is going to change. You've just complicated my life. Oh my gosh, where do I go? Where do I start?"
That drives me, because then I think, for those individuals, it's going to change their lives in terms of the number of people they touch. So it's that ripple effect. Right?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. Exactly. You touch that life and they touch maybe 1,000 or 1,200 people in their practice.
Dr. Susan Maples:
So I want to get better and better at being able to deliver a message that's easy to hear, fun to listen to, makes a difference, lots more storytelling, things that they don't forget. And I don't think that's the same as competitive, is it?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
It's interesting. I had this conversation with John Kois. And John pointed out that he didn't want to be a regurgitator of information. He wanted to change the profession in a positive way, to leave the profession better maybe than when you started.
Dr. Susan Maples:
And my frustration, which is very real, I live with demons, but my frustration is that I chose an area to influence that has been... I don't want to say impossible to influence, but I'm just one person.
So I chose health in a time when... Just like you, I'm creative and bright enough to do a number of different things, and I chose dentistry. I could have done anything, and I did this. And so watching the decline of our population's health so dramatically, more dramatically than any segment of the human existence, the decline from lifestyle-related illness, has been horrifying to me. And I'm like little BBs against an iceberg here.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. One of the biggest challenges I see for our profession is tooth decay. We haven't made any improvement in that at all.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Are you kidding? It's getting worse. It's the number-one disease on the planet.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
It's getting worse rather than better. And sugar plays a huge role in that. And Americans are off the charts in how much sugar we eat. Me as an individual, I don't know how I could ever change that.
Dr. Susan Maples:
As devastating as tooth decay is, it's the canary in the coal mine.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
It's like once it gets past the teeth, that's a whole different bailiwick. So as you look at the change you're trying to make, it's monumental, really. Because changing lifestyle, changing habits for people in our society, that's a huge challenge, Susan.
Dr. Susan Maples:
It's funny, when I named the second book Brave Parent: Raising Healthy, Happy Kids Against All Odds in Today's World.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. I've read your book, by the way, and it's fabulous.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Thank you.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Thank you. My sample readers who were in the demographic of the genre of the book, parents, were like, "I don't know if you should put 'against all odds because' it's a little intimidating." And I go, "Well, it is against all odds because, first of all, teeth shouldn't..."
I mean, show me a child that isn't sick right now. I can't. And unfortunately, every sick adult was a sick child we saw in the pipeline coming on up. And we saw them, and we touched their lives at least every six months.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Susan Maples:
And for us to sit back and wait until they have these huge expressions of disease that are holding their life back is unconscionable to me. We have to go back to root cause and we have to look at how it impacts children before they're sick, before their habits are even established.
We did a huge disservice by taking the mouth out of the body. Well, in the late 1700s when we separated the body into systems, we gave all the physicians their own specialties and dentistry got teeth, but it's the one area, oral health, that they don't talk about in medical school at all.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
That's just amazing, isn't it?
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yes. So it's a matter of trying to put the mouth back in the body and see it as an integral part of the digestive system, the airway.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Susan Maples:
The masticatory system, the head and neck function, all of that.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And eating, chewing, speaking, socialization plays such an important role all the way through that. I just look back to my own dental school experience 40-something years ago, and it was all about the teeth. Thankfully, we are making progress getting away from that. It's a big world here and it's hard to keep up with.
Dr. Susan Maples:
One of the, I don't know, gifts I have, I suppose, is surrounding myself with incredible people. I've chosen amazing team members around values. That has allowed me to create a vision that actually comes to fruition.
So it's not just, "Boy, I could see this. I could imagine this. Boy, if we only could." We're doing it every day. I think our practice probably does more of all aspects of total health.
Now, I'm going to tell you, there certainly are some people doing sleep better or doing various aspects and focused on one thing, doing it better. But I don't know that anybody is doing birth to 100 years old in all aspects of metabolic health, nutrient deficiencies, food sensitivities, diet coaching, weaving a perio bundle in that allows us to look at the root cause of people's host immune response deficiencies.
More than half of our patients are referred to us by the medical profession. We've really bridged the gap in our community. In fact, this year, I accepted an award, strange for a 37-year-old practice, but I accepted an award in my community for Entrepreneur of the Year Award for Influence and Impact. And that was a really big deal in the capital city with-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Congrats. Let me say, I'm not surprised.
Dr. Susan Maples:
I was surprised and honored by our community recognizing what we've done.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Traditional medicine treats the population at large. Success is typically not measured at the level of the individual. Learning rules and systems and how to repeat them well is important, but a one-size-fits-all approach is difficult for curious minds like Susan's. So, Susan, you are a disruptor, right?
Dr. Susan Maples:
Oh, it's my biggest gift.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So when you confront with a challenge now or there's a roadblock, do you think this is not a problem? I'm going to blow right through this. Rather than have it stop you.
Dr. Susan Maples:
I don't mind setbacks. I always learn from them. Sort of like if you're playing tennis or pickleball, every time you touch the ball, you get better, whether it's a good shot or bad shot, right?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Susan Maples:
So I don't mind setbacks. I think what holds a lot of people back in our culture is they're worried about money, and I've never worried about that.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You've never thought about it.
Dr. Susan Maples:
No, I don't worry about money. Everybody has a different money orientation. I have been fortunate to accumulate some wealth doing what I do. I'm lucky that my brother is my financial planner and he keeps me poor and makes me wealthy, I guess that's how I'd say it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Did a good job.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yeah. But that's not really it either. You have to be accountable when you're going to start a business. I have six businesses. They're not all lucrative. But you have to think of them in terms of what am I trying to achieve with this?
I'm trying to make an impact on the world and make a difference. The measure of success is not how financially solvent it is. It's what am I trying to accomplish and how will I know when I've reached that? That's where I start to say, gosh, this isn't taking off the way I want it to. The whole movement isn't taking off.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You've met people in your life that you believe are extraordinary, and they've maybe had an influence in your life and what have you. What kind of traits do you see in them? What kind of traits would you say extraordinary people exhibit? Anything in common that they have?
Dr. Susan Maples:
Fearless.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
They're fearless.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yes. Willing to chart their own course without fear that they're going to fit in, they're not going to make it. So fearless would be one of them. Courage, for sure. Innovative.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Like thinking outside the box kind of?
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yeah, for sure.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Or visionary.
Dr. Susan Maples:
You're the first person that comes to mind for me, because I look at your eclectic talents, your oil painting, not only writing evidence-based books but writing novels, and playing in a band, and running a company. You're nodding your head. And a good restorative dentist.
I look at you and I think if you think something up... So COVID comes along and you're like, "Oh my gosh. We need better air quality. We need it fast, and we need to produce it." And I'll just go ahead and do that. And then you just launch a company.
And all of a sudden, inside of weeks, we're getting these amazing pieces of equipment. And then COVID fizzles out and not as many people are buying it. And you're like, "I'll just shut that company down." Who does that?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Nobody that's normal.
Dr. Susan Maples:
I know, right? But that's fearlessness. And it's out of need and I could make an impact, and maybe it would be financially lucrative and maybe not, but it's certainly an unmet need.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I didn't care.
Dr. Susan Maples:
It is a niche. A lot of energy.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
A lot of energy.
Dr. Susan Maples:
It's the one thing people say about you and me, right? How do you get it done? Where do you come up with the... I don't know.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
It's funny. I have this running thing with John Kois, who's a colleague and become a friend over the years. I look at his schedule and I'm like... And I called John and I'm like, "John, you know I'm really worried about you. I'm looking at what you're doing and I'm thinking, how in the world do you do all that? I'm worried about you."
And he'll say, "You know, Kim, I was looking at your schedule, and I don't know how you managed to do all that, and I'm kind of worried about you." And I'll go, "Okay, I'll just shut up now. Okay. Point well-made. Nevermind. Let's just forget we had this conversation."
But I think that's a trait that I identify in extraordinary people too, that they're involved in a lot of things and they are able to get a lot of things done because they focus energy on certain things that they are able to accomplish and follow through. Right?
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yep.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I made a comment to another extraordinary individual. We were having lunch. And he's an amazing individual. And the things that he's done, and he's involved in charity work, and the list just goes on and on. His interest in hobbies. He's so well-accomplished and an amazing individual. I've known him for 50 years.
And I said, "You know, you're not normal. You know that's not normal, right?" And he looked at me with hurt puppy eyes, and he was real quiet. And I thought, "Uh-oh. I didn't mean to hurt his feelings." But then he looked at me and he said, "But it's normal for me."
And I think a lot of people, extraordinary individuals that I interview and that I talk to, see themselves as normal. The world may see you as a disruptor, but you in your own mind and your own life, well, you're just a normal person. You just are following... You're curious maybe and following these interests and pursuits.
Dr. Susan Maples:
I think that resonates. I really focus a lot on non-judgmental, kind thoughts. The best of me sees the best in everyone. And I really have made plenty of mistakes in my life. So every time I'm pointing a finger, I feel like I'm pointing three right back at me.
So I really try very hard. And I'm not just talking about controlling the judgment on the outside. That's not that hard. Bite your tongue. Right?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Susan Maples:
It's controlling the judgments that we have on the inside about the person in front of us. I try to go, "What's that about?" And so that part connects me with people. People like me. They find me a caring and kind person. And I have a good sense of humor. But my ideas are often met with people going, "Huh?"
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. I know. Well, when you first hear something new that's disruptive and way out of left field, a lot of us, our first time, our first response is like, "What? Did I hear that? What was that about?" And I think that extraordinary people take that in stride and go, "Yep."
Setting out to change the world is no small task. While the work can feel like it's never done, stepping back and taking time to refresh is essential. In the best-selling book, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, Stephen Covey drives home the importance of renewal.
Dr. Susan Maples:
So I love all outdoor stuff. Next week I'll be in Telluride skiing all week. I love-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Snow-skiing.
Dr. Susan Maples:
... hiking and mountain biking, all of it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Mountain biking.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Yep. Yep. Yep.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
White water rafting.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Kayaking.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Kayaking.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Water-skiing. I love cooking. I love dancing. There's so many things I love to do. And, of course, you only have so much time.
So I look at my life every year at least, and I say to myself, what is it that isn't serving me well now that I would want to do less of? And what is it that I want to invite more of? Because if you continue to say yes to new opportunities, you need to let go of some others.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. You can't do it all.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Or you end up without self-care.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Susan Maples:
We need to take care of the vessel and you need good sleep. That's one of the things. I was just interviewing Hunter, my son, on my own podcast. I learned just as much from him as Rob Lustig and Kevin Boyd and you. He's amazing.
But I will say... He asked me. He said, "Mom, I do worry a little bit about your sleep because you're up early exercising. I know how late you stay up and I know you try to..." So that's always been an issue is that I really want to have really good energy and resources and stay healthy.
I want to live like I am now and have one bad day. I don't want to feel old, ever. I don't like old-person energy, for me.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. Yep. No, I totally get that. So those traits that we just talked about, so those show up... I mean, you've talked about it. So that's how they show up in your own life. You're constantly-
Dr. Susan Maples:
Pruning.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Pruning. So that's maybe another common trait. I think extraordinary people accomplish a lot of things because they managed their time well, right?
Dr. Susan Maples:
For sure.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Would you agree with that?
Dr. Susan Maples:
For sure.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And so they prune out the things that aren't working. They bring in new things. Because they're continually wanting to be students of life, always learning something new and not afraid to try something new.
Dr. Susan Maples:
I also think anxiety creeps in for people and they spend a lot of time and energy around the things they're anxious about, rather than...
And I'll give you a good example. I'm in nine cities in six weeks right now. And I packed for this trip. I'm gone for a week and a half because I'm here and then going on to a ski meeting in Telluride.
And I packed last night after my pickleball tournament, and coming home and making a nice meal for myself. And then I have to get up early. I just don't put a lot of anxiety over... If I don't bring the right things, I'm still going to be okay. I don't put a lot of anxiety over things that matter less.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. That aren't important.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Right. I try to make the things that matter the most take a higher level of importance than what matters less. So that allows you to do some things. Most people, the night before traveling for a trip like this, wouldn't schedule anything.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, they're stressed out about what do I take? What am I packing? What am I doing?
Dr. Susan Maples:
Right. And I was like, "I'm going to go through my closet, trust that the things I have in there are just going to be right. And if they're not, they'll be fine."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. And if I need something I didn't bring, they sell it.
Dr. Susan Maples:
Borrow it or buy it. Right. Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Dr. Susan Maples is a lifelong learner. Her career path demonstrates the importance of always innovating and bringing new ideas to the field of dentistry and beyond.
We should never give up on being students. And we can find teachers all around us, sometimes in the most unexpected places. There's always room for acquiring new skills or challenging long-held beliefs.
Thank you so much to Dr. Susan Maples and her Hands-on Learning Lab for helping grow our community of extraordinary minds. And thank you for coming on this journey with me today. Around here, we aim to inspire and create connections. We can't do it without you.
If this conversation moved you, made you smile, or scratched that little itch of curiosity today, please share it with the extraordinary people in your life. And if you do one thing today, let it be extraordinary.