Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
UP TO THE MINUTE is a production of Colorado Radio for Justice (CRJ). It's a weekly snapshot of what’s happening, and what’s on the horizon, in the criminal-legal system in Colorado and beyond, hosted by CRJ's team of system-impacted podcast hosts. CRJ's featured guests / contributors on the show are staff from the Colorado Criminal Justice Reform Coalition (CCJRC). www.radioforjustice.org
[00:00:27] JoyBelle Phelan: Welcome to a new season of Up to the Minute on Colorado Radio for Justice. I'm your host today, Joybelle Phelan, and we are at Colorado Criminal Justice Reform Coalition with Kyle Giddings and today we're talking about the start of the legislation session and a great big win against the JBC.
[00:00:47] The Joint Budget Committee and 788 More Prison Beds
---
[00:00:47] Kyle Giddings: Yeah we rallied the troops in the No More Prisons Coalition and packed the JBC, the Joint Budget Committee's hearing room while they were hearing a supplemental request for 788 more prison beds for the Department of Corrections. And for the first time in the 25 year history of C-C-J-R-C, the committee voted no,You cannot have these beds until you come back with a plan and how you're gonna safely manage your population. So huge win. Shout out to community and our allies that rallied together and put the pressure on JBC and got it across the finish line for the first time ever.
[00:01:24] Supplemental?
---
[00:01:24] JoyBelle Phelan: Folks might remember when we had an interview with Christie, we talked about how there's a budget year, there's the "Long Bill". So for people that might not remember, what does supplemental mean?
[00:01:35] Kyle Giddings: Yeah, so a supplemental is a request for additional funding for this current fiscal year. So this current fiscal year ends in June. The Department of Corrections went to the Joint Budget Committee who writes the budget and said, Hey, we need 788 more beds this year. And they said no. So it was a request for supplemental funding for their [00:02:00] caseload.
[00:02:00] JoyBelle Phelan: So in the next six months, if they don't have the money for those beds.
What does that mean for our people inside prison?
[00:02:07] Procedural Changes Within the Department of Corrections
---
[00:02:07] Kyle Giddings: So the Department of Corrections is coming out saying, oh, we're gonna like ship people outta state, not take anyone else in, do sled beds, but we're going to them be like, you don't have to do any of that, because there are 5,000 people past their parole eligibility so a third of the population of DOC. So you could implement some simple procedural changes within the Department of Corrections as well as support the prison population management measures bill that we'll get into here in a minute to reduce the population safely and help folks that are just like stuck in red tape and purgatory of not being able to get classes completed or parole plans written because their case managers are having to do security duty instead of helping them rent parole plans, to help resolve the population pressure. So every month for a year, if we diverted three people from every judicial district into sober living, to probation, to a halfway house instead. There wouldn't be a bed request right now. There's 570 plus people on the tabled list right now that are just stuck in that purgatory of waiting to get a class completed or waiting to get a parole plan actually written. There's so many different directions we could go besides building more prisons and putting a ton more pressure on the staff.
So the answer is no.
[00:03:24] Prison Population Management Measure Bill and Putting People up for Parole
---
[00:03:24] JoyBelle Phelan: So you mentioned briefly the management bill. So the bill as it currently stands, doesn't have a lot of teeth. It doesn't make DOC do anything. What we're talking about is putting potentially, some people up for parole,
So if I'm somebody sitting in my car listening to you and me talk. I can imagine somebody thinking. Why isn't DOC doing that already?
[00:03:50] Kyle Giddings: The current Prison Population Management Measure bill that passed in 2018 unanimously didn't have the teeth we hoped it did, it also left some holes [00:04:00] that allowed the Department of Corrections to manipulate the numbers a bit to bolster their vacancy rate by keeping people in the jails because the more people in the jails, the higher their vacancy rate is because the people in the jail don't count against it,we are rewriting the law and proposing changes to put individuals inside of the Department of Corrections in charge of making sure if these measures are triggered by a decrease if the vacancy rate drops below 3% for longer than 30 days. The executive director of the Department of Corrections would be responsible for making sure that all practical tools that have been given to them through this bill would be implemented properly to let people out.
This also includes people that are within 120 days of their mandatory release date, to get 60 extra days of earned time to help push them along and get them out quicker. It does a lot to give more direct, actionable responsibility to individuals inside of the Department of Corrections.
[00:05:02] Approaching MRD
---
[00:05:02] JoyBelle Phelan: I know so many people inside prison and from my own time inside it was really rare for people to get to their MRD, so the measures you just mentioned where potentially if they're already within four months giving them an extra two. But my fear is that doesn't actually help.
[00:05:24] Kyle Giddings: More people are gonna start quickly approaching their MRD because discretionary parole is just down so much. Like they're just not letting people out even like in the JCAP system,
And Special Needs Parole as well. So more people are gonna start approaching that MRD. so what the Prison Population Management Measures also does is like making sure that we're properly using Community Corrections beds.
[00:05:47] Proper Use of Beds in Community Corrections
---
[00:05:57] JoyBelle Phelan: Right now there is 540, and change, open fully- funded beds sitting in the- in Community Corrections, and no one's sitting in there. And then there's also another almost 300 [00:06:00] nonresidential beds sitting there that, could be utilized, that aren't being utilized because the parole board isn't letting people go to halfway houses, all the options on the table parole board is just being very like, no, you're staying here,Let's circle back to that for a minute. 'cause I used to start on a community corrections board. When you say parole isn't sending people to community, are you talking COP beds?
[00:06:24] Kyle Giddings: It's complicated, because there's also the problem of the correction boards across the state, not being unified in, how they admit people into the community corrections program. There's some counties like Larimer County, which is apparently like the gold Star, which is like as many people as they can get right now. Yep. Right now. But they're running outta space. But then there's other counties like Weld County, which is letting no one in right next door. I know there's some counties that have rejection rates in the 90%. There's a lot of discussions Right now. This win at the Joint Budget Committee has opened so many doors okay for us to have some real conversation with legislators and with the governor's office about what can actually be done to help get people out and actually safely manage the population.
[00:07:09] Build More Prisons?
---
[00:07:09] Kyle Giddings: Because right now the executive branch is very clear. they're in committee on mic saying, we're gonna build a prison, it is inevitable, we have to build a prison.
[00:07:16] JoyBelle Phelan: It is not that easy. No, not that fast.
[00:07:18] Kyle Giddings: And it's, yeah, not that fast. What are you gonna do between now and then?
and right now they're talking about leasing a couple closed private prisons, but those need time and money to get back up and running 'cause they've been closed a long time.
[00:07:31] JoyBelle Phelan: And to your point around the union, who's gonna staff those?
[00:07:33] Kyle Giddings: Who's gonna staff those because they can't find anybody. Another element on top of all this is the fact that,
[00:07:39] ICE Using Private Prisons for Detention
---
[00:07:39] Kyle Giddings: Homeland Security is taking over some of the private prisons for ice detention. One in Hudson, just north of Denver, has already been fully funded, and they're gonna go operational probably pretty quick.
And so that's gonna suck staff away from other counties. And then one in Walsenburg is fully funded. We don't know the timeline of opening that, but it's fully funded. And it's [00:08:00] also gonna suck staff away from the Department of Corrections because they're offering all these great bonus, they pay more.
And so they're just like, there's no clear path forward.
[00:08:10] Cost of Prisons Per Cell Plus a Sour Budget
---
[00:08:10] Kyle Giddings: Like they can build a new prison and then like you said, it takes 10 years. And also the Department of Corrections said on the Smart Act hearing that it's gonna cost somewhere between 360,000 and 600,000 per cell.
The state doesn't have that money. not at the same time when they're facing deep cuts to healthcare and higher education. K-12, like the state has four bucks and three raspberries to like balance the budget and those raspberries are sour. There's not much there. Our state is not in a place we're funding more prisons versus education.
[00:08:43] Public Safety and Bringing in People From Outside Counties
---
[00:08:43] JoyBelle Phelan: So let's talk to the people that, 'cause we hear this a lot. Public safety. Public safety. sometimes more rural counties tend to say they don't want people from outside their community. So when we're talking about community corrections beds - again, sweeping generalizations this is not everybody - but you mentioned Weld, right? I heard it myself when I was on community corrections. If you didn't, if you weren't from their county, if you didn't have ties to that county . They didn't want you there. Yeah. For lots of fully valid reasons and some maybe not so valid. . So how do we talk to the people that are concerned about public safety, care about their counties, care about their neighbors, but they're concerned aroundwho are you sending to my community?
[00:09:26] Who are you Sending to My Community?
---
[00:09:26] Kyle Giddings: So it's like having a conversation with the community boards about the fact that there's so many folks who are elderly who have in statistically aged out of crime that are stuck in the Department of Corrections, that people 50 years old and over are the largest growing population inside of the Department of Corrections. Even Governor Polis talked about it, about how like, older people tend to not commit crimes, so related to Tina Peters.and we agree. So let's figure out a way to let the more of 'em out. The Prison Population Management Measures in particular only [00:10:00] affectIndividuals who, like theft or like drug possession, low level stuff. So we're not putting folks back into community that haven't, like, A) proven themselves. A lot of 'em have completed w hatever classes they can get their hands on Inside of the Department of Corrections, but are also no one convicted and serving currently a violent crime. so it's all the low risk folks. Who , struggle with addiction or committed theft or whatever, getting them back into community. And just making sure that, we're safely managing our population because it doesn't make sense to keep these low level offenders locked up inside of the Department of Corrections while the Department of Corrections is exploding
[00:10:42] Paying an Unfair Price for Crimes Commited in Early Age
---
[00:10:42] JoyBelle Phelan: I know plenty of folks inside who did commit violent crimes, they were younger. there are zillion studies around how your brain is not fully formed,I always feel bad, like I committed a white-collar crime. I was considered low risk. I personally know some people who committed very violent crimes, who yes, made bad choices when they were younger. Potentially would even agree with me to say they deserve where they are right now. And it's been,
30 years. they're not the same person. They've done as much programming as they can because they're not always eligible. I imagine, we're focusing on nine nonviolent crime because no legislator on earth wants to be seen as being soft on crime, and we have so many people in our population, and I'm sure in other states do too, who - at what point have they actually, what point are they done? Have they paid for their crime? Did they deserve a chance?
[00:11:38] Kyle Giddings: So the prison population management measures doesn't deal with that, but there is legislation coming down the pipeline this session that will be a sort of second look for folks who were convicted of violent crimes who served at least 20 years that their sentence, to get an opportunity to go on parole, much sooner than they might be eligible based off their [00:12:00] original sentence.there's also a bill coming down the pipe from I can't remember who, but what it does is give a second look to individuals who were convicted of crimes, who were also victims of crimes. So victims of human trafficking, that kind of stuff.
To help individuals who have served long periods of time have a second chance of getting out. One, it cost the state a great deal of money to keep these folks.
[00:12:24] Keeping Elderly People Locked up With High Medical Costs
---
[00:12:27] Kyle Giddings: The older population in particular locked up for a long time. During the joint budget committee they were talking about, there was like three people inside the Department of Corrections whose medical care
cost $800,000 a year - just those three people. Why are they in here Why aren't they in community? placed in, , a different place like so they can receive treatment on much lower costs like the state's contribution for Medicare and Medicaid is much lower than the full cost of doing their treatment inside the Department of Corrections. So there's a lot of movement in every population. PPMM was not designed way, not designed that way because it was introduced before our huge win. It was designed to help take the pressure off. . Not, open the floodgates. But there's a lot of legislation moving right now and lots of discussions happening to help take the pressure off in every little population. The JCAP folks, the special needs parole folks, individuals who can gain, access to sex offender treatments. There's lots of things happen. There's lots of things happening. I can't talk about it all on here quite yet, but there's a lot of discussions because this is the first time in the 25 years that JBC said no and said, come back with a plan on how you're gonna deal with this. Because they made it really clear, unless you could come back with a plan on how you're gonna safely manage the population. The answer is no.
[00:13:42] Timeline for CDOC to Mitigate Prison Population
---
[00:13:42] JoyBelle Phelan: So is there a timeline by which they have to come back with? Like, we're gonna hit budget planning for next year?
[00:13:48] Kyle Giddings: So the joint budget committee figure setting is in March, which is pretty quick. Yeah. DOC already came back for a different, it's called a [00:14:00] comeback. So if they don't get what they wanted in their supplemental hearing, they can do a comeback within three days to request it all over again with a different angle or a different argument or something like that.
So they came back and the director of the State Office of Budgeting and Planning, Mark Ferrandino was like, give us everything. Rep Sirota, who's the chair of the joint budget committee was like, why would we give you these beds when it is clear, because we did it, you're actually doing something now.
Because in the joint budget committee hearing, they were talking over and over again about, there have been many bills sponsored, put through the sessions that the governor's office has just killed or not even seen the light of day to help deal with this population issue to help safely manage it.
the governor's office has stood in the way of so many reforms. And now DOCs population's exploding, Why should we not hold you accountable to that?
They're not gonna get those beds.
[00:14:54] Strategizing for a New Path Forward
---
[00:14:54] JoyBelle Phelan: so the governor's office getting together with DOC, what does this look like?
How do we do this?
[00:14:59] Kyle Giddings: if you have ideas, send them in. It's like now or never. I think to be able to advocate and to communicate real solutions when dealing with the explosion in population over the last few years.
We are working with everyone from the Public Defender's office to the Spero Justice Center, who's been on this show handful of times. Everyone and, anyone who's been in the work to like, come up with as many ideas as we can and talking with electeds about, will you run a bill that will do this? Some of 'em are as simple as codifying the COVID parole procedures into law because they were working great, because they had people arrive at the diagnostic center out in east Denver who were already past their parole eligibility dates, and they sat there and did a parole hearing there and then sent them back into community.
Instead of sending 'em to DOC, they got rid of, they stopped doing it. They were doing so much to help individuals. Navigate and get out during COVID that's like, why aren't we doing [00:16:00] that again? Like sending a summons instead of arresting someone on a technical parole violations.
It's all these basic things that DOC just stopped doing that is the baseline, like just do some of these things and help us like navigate the population. But then also is it second look? Is it the prison population management measures? Is it reform to JCAP to make it easier for JCAP folks to get out?
everything's kind of on the table. So if anyone inside is listening to us, send us a letter I guarantee you, one of your friends have our newsletter and it has our address on it. So, go ahead and send us a letter like what you think would work, because some of our best ideas have always come from folks inside.
[00:16:40] Second Look
---
[00:16:40] JoyBelle Phelan: Let's play with that second look thing you're talking about. this has come up before and nothing is ever retroactive.
so we might pass a second look legislation, right? . But it doesn't impact the guy that's already been sitting in prison for 15 years.
At what point do we start helping those folks?
[00:17:00] Kyle Giddings: So that is the goal of the second look Bill. Okay. Is , a way around the retroactive issue because of the Herrera decision making where you can't just go back and resentence people. And so that is the goal of the second look is to create that pathway around that decision. To give those folks who've been in for 15 years and their co-defendant has been out for 10, that option to be able to potentially get out.
[00:17:22] New Bills that CCJRC is Supporting
---
[00:17:22] JoyBelle Phelan: So I know you said there's some stuff you can't talk about yet 'cause that's still percolating in the coffee pot, but is there, is there stuff, are there any other bills that C-C-J-R-C is excited about potentially supporting that the public needs to be aware of to help with in any way?
[00:17:36] Kyle Giddings: TBD on the real decarceration stuff, but one bill that we've partnered with Stand With Children with, is, a reform to the restitution processes. What it would do is if actually it's a one page bill, which is a rare thing these days, but what it does is it bans insurance companies from being able to receive criminal restitution orders. So say you [00:18:00] are convicted of arson and the insurance company pays out. Your victim makes them whole. Right now, the insurance company can then go to court and say, I deserve that money back, even though they are paid premiums to do this. This is like literally the industry they exist to. That's what they do, right?
is insure things. So right now folks are getting slapped with huge restitution orders. Like, I'll give you an example of my restitution order from my cases. So I pled out, my case and then because I pled out, I couldn't argue really the list of things someone said I stole. Mm-hmm. And they showed up with this gigantic list of things I had never even seen before in my life.
But there's nothing I can really do. 'cause I had already pled guilty. so I was slapped with $72,000 of restitution and it was to Allstate Insurance company. I've been paying on it since 2013 and because in the state of Colorado anyone, any victim, who's been given restitution They are given interest on top of that, so 8% interest.
It used to be 12. It was 12 for a good chunk of my restitution times. So I am down to like the last $20,000 of that original order, but because of the interest, I owe $64,000 in just interest to an insurance company. So we got together with Stand with Children who works on a lot of like juvenile fees and fines, as well as adult fees and fines helped passed the bill last year that required the warrant check, check for Detains before he released on parole, that kind of stuff. And they're like, that doesn't make any sense to us. And so, this bill would eliminate the ability for insurance companies to claim criminal restitution and help folks who are-- now, the retroactive thing.
That's the million dollar question, right? Yep. I think there might be a case where the interest. Isn't covered by their Herrera decision because that was a separate thing that doesn't take effect until a year later and it's not included in your original [00:20:00] sentence. So I think the interest might be an angle where we could get rid of the interest on that for folks, but
[00:20:06] JoyBelle Phelan: I would love that considering I stole like $300,000 my interest with interest, I now owe close to $900,000,
[00:20:16] Kyle Giddings: There's a lot of people like you that will never overcome it.
And do you owe it to the company or do you owe it to an insurance company?
[00:20:22] JoyBelle Phelan: I'm still paying the court.
[00:20:23] Kyle Giddings: I would love to figure out a path forward on that. I think this is the first of several reform bills mm-hmm. Related to restitution. It's a tricky topic, but, uh, I think we'll figure out a way to navigate it this is the first step -- insurance companies,
[00:20:35] JoyBelle Phelan: And that makes sense, right? that's why they're in business.
[00:20:37] Next Steps
---
[00:20:37] JoyBelle Phelan: So if we have any sort of call to action for folks at home, I know we're early in the session.
[00:20:43] Kyle Giddings: Oh gosh.
[00:20:43] JoyBelle Phelan: But is there something we need folks besides writing letters or thinking about smart common sense, safe ways to get people out of prison. To help reduce the load that's currently on the DOC. Are there any other calls you really like? Yeah. Could people be helping in other ways?
[00:20:58] Kyle Giddings: Yeah. I think if you're based in community go to ccjrc.org/getinvolved and sign up for the No More Prisons coalition. That way we can keep you plugged in on what's going on. For the folks inside, I think. Something that would be really impactful is that they would write letters to, Emily Sirota, Kyle Brown, Judy Amabile, and Senator Bridges as well as Representative Taggart, and Senator Barbara Kirkmeyer. That's the JBC. Hopefully, uh, maybe we'll post that somewhere. I dunno., If they could write letters and explain their experience inside of prison mm-hmm. Because of the current conditions with. Staff not being able to support. Mm-hmm. And send those letters directly to the JBC members explaining their lived experience.
[00:21:46] JoyBelle Phelan: I think that'd be a really impactful, statement. Maybe we can work on that. Yeah.
[00:21:50] Conclusion
---
[00:21:50] JoyBelle Phelan: thank you so much for listening to our discussion with Kyle around what the early stages of legislation looks like this [00:22:00] year you've been listening to Up To The Minute on Colorado Radio for Justice. I'm your host today, JoyBelle Phalen. Thank you Kyle, for your time. Thank you and we will see you folks next time