Everybody Make More Money when You're Nice - Mikki Paradis

Join us on this exciting episode of the Hummingbird Effect Podcast as we sit down with Mikki Paradis, a trailblazing drywall and paint contractor who has been revolutionizing the construction industry for over 20 years. Mikki shares her journey, from starting her own business at NC State to becoming a respected leader known for her integrity and innovative approaches. Discover how small changes and core values led to significant improvements in project outcomes, elevating her company's reputation and profitability. Mikki also delves into her public speaking, mentorship for women in trades, and her passion for seashells. Get inspired to find your own hummingbird effect and make a transformative impact in your field.

00:00 Introduction to the Hummingbird Effect Podcast
01:29 Meet Mikki Paradis: A Tradeswoman's Journey
02:22 Challenges and Triumphs in the Drywall Business
06:03 From Residential to Multifamily Construction
07:28 Mikki's Ventures Beyond Drywall
13:10 Seashell Enthusiast: A Surprising Hobby
17:21 The Hummingbird Effect in Marketing
27:48 The Recession and Software Innovation
28:39 Consulting for AI Companies
29:05 Creating Accurate Estimates
30:45 Industry Leadership and Learning from Others
34:29 Promoting Teamwork on Job Sites
39:32 Encouraging Women in Construction
41:48 The Importance of Mentorship
46:51 Investing in Personal Comfort
50:09 Final Thoughts and Reflections

Creators and Guests

Host

Hanna Jernigan

Account Coordinator at Hummingbird Creative Group

Host

Wendy Coulter

As CEO at Hummingbird, I generate ideas that TAKE FLIGHT! I also have a passion to advocate for women in business, and I am an active real estate investor.

Guest

Mikki Paradis

CEO/ CCO - Public Speaker

What is The Hummingbird Effect with Wendy Coulter?

Welcome to "The Hummingbird Effect," a podcast dedicated to uncovering the subtle yet powerful ways that small innovations can transform your business. Hosted by Wendy Coulter, CEO of Hummingbird Creative Group, this show delves into the stories and strategies behind successful brand building.

For over 25 years, Wendy has helped CEOs and business leaders redefine their brands through innovation and compelling narratives. In this podcast, she shares the insights and lessons learned from her extensive experience, exploring how a strong brand orientation can significantly increase the value of your business.

Each episode features engaging conversations with industry leaders, business advisors, and innovators who have harnessed the power of branding to make a substantial impact. Discover how focusing on core values, mission, and vision can drive your brand beyond mere marketing tactics, fostering a culture that resonates with your audience and enhances your business's reputation.

Inspired by the concept of the Hummingbird Effect—where small, adaptive changes lead to remarkable outcomes—this podcast aims to help you understand and implement the incremental innovations that can elevate your brand and business.

Join Wendy Coulter on "The Hummingbird Effect" and learn how to evolve your brand, attract more customers, and ultimately enhance the value of your business through strategic branding.

30 - HBE Mikki Paradise
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Wendy Coulter: we started the Hummingbird Effect Podcast last year. This has been a lot of fun. And so if you've been listening for a while, you're realizing I'm not on script today. So, um, I figured with Mickey Paradise in the house.

I have permission. It's right. We do what we want to do things different. Um, and so the Hummingbird Effect is something that, um, is a lot of fun. It's looking at small changes that, um, companies or individuals have made in their marketing or branding and how that affects a different area of the business in a [00:01:00] really big way.

Um, and so I'm excited to have Mickey Paradise with me today, and I also have Hannah Jernigan from the Hummingbird office. Yeah, as usual as my sidekick. Yeah, so we just finished up some Starbucks and headed over here to the Starbucks. Yes. Amazing studio, um, that we showed Mickey around today. Yeah, yeah.

You,

Mikki Paradise: you might be seeing my podcast up in here too, because, um, my basement's looking busted compared, compared to what Joe got going on up in here. So I'm just saying.

Wendy Coulter: So I'm just excited to have you on today, Mickey. We've known each other a really long time. And, um, you are in the trades. I'm gonna put it that way.

I'm a trades person, a

Mikki Paradise: tradeswoman,

Wendy Coulter: so I'm gonna let you introduce yourself, but you have to share like a fun fact that nobody knows, that you haven't really shared anywhere else, maybe if there is one. And introduce yourself and talk a little bit about your background and where you come from.

Mikki Paradise: Okay. All right.

So again, I, I don't know if I'm looking at a camera, if I'm looking at [00:02:00] you, I'm just, I'm just doing whatever. Just do your thing. I gonna, maybe sometimes I'll. Break. What do they, what do they call that? Like you break the fourth wall. Fourth wall. Fourth wall and just like directly look at the camera when I'm really wanna make a point.

I do that on my podcast. So I'm like, Hey guys, listen up. It gets weird and I like it and I think, um, the seven people who subscribe also must really enjoy it. So. Awesome there is that. So yes, I am a drywall and paint contractor. I started my business. Um. 20 years ago, so I had the joy of having you at my 20 year party.

Yes. This April. And so that was awesome. . But it's wild to be doing anything for 20 years, like the same thing for 20 years. Right? It's kind of strange. It's also really unusual for a woman to be a drywall contractor, especially in the way that I am a drywall contractor. I'm an actual drywall contractor, and that really throws people off.

Well, '

Wendy Coulter: cause you actually put up drywall sometimes too. Yeah. Like I know how to hang and

Mikki Paradise: finish and sand and scrap [00:03:00] and move drywall and what drywall is and how it works. And like me and drywall are one at this point. It's like there's, I don't know, you look a

Wendy Coulter: lot

Mikki Paradise: better than that. I mean, but like it was so funny 'cause somebody was like, it's so funny how much you love makeup.

And I was like, yeah, but think about what I do for a living. I'm just fixing walls. Yeah, there you go. So I'm just filling these holes in. That's all I'm doing. So it's funny, it translates to a lot of things that you don't really think about. You're like, oh, that actually makes sense. Like I'm up sanding. So yeah, I actually physically for a long time did the work and then.

You know, my back was like, maybe we should consider hiring people. So I agreed with my back and I just now spend every, every two weeks at clockwork at my chiropractors. So I have people now that kind of do that. And we've also grown. So, you know, I started when I was still a senior at an NC State, which was so wild.

Go

Wendy Coulter: pack. Yeah, go pack. We got three Wolf Packers here at the table. We do. It was funny '

Mikki Paradise: cause I moved here from, um. [00:04:00] Orlando, which is not the south, I don't care what you say. It is like Northern Puerto Rico, different world, Northern Cuba, but it is not the south. They do have sweet tea, but that's about the only thing going southern for them and the heat.

So I didn't understand like college sports, the way that North Carolina does college sports. And then I moved here and it was like, you have to pick a side. And I was like, it's like I'm doing a gang. Like, oh, well, can I just like do the thing? And Yeah. So I'm, I, I've graduated from state, so go back. Okay. Um, they're very proud of me whenever I'm like in the news for something good.

North. Like, they're like, oh, NC State grad does such and such. And I'm like, yeah, but if I did something bad, I would bet you wouldn't be putting me in your magazine, would you? And they're like, obviously not. So, um, yes, drywall. I've been doing that 20 years. I, and we, we kind of, during the recession I was, I was working for track home builders and it was a nightmare.

Um. [00:05:00] On many levels. But then the recession happened and I had a builder that was like, yeah, we're, they owed me like 40 grand. And they're like, we're not gonna pay you, and we think you're too stupid to come after the money. Like they literally said that. And I was like. It feels like a challenge. Um, so I did go after the money.

Turns out I wasn't that stupid, um, hiring an attorney and we ended up winning. Um, but after I was done paying for the attorney, it didn't feel like winning. There wasn't

Wendy Coulter: any money left, was there. It didn't feel like I

Mikki Paradise: won. It felt like I could gloat, but I didn't actually win.

Wendy Coulter: So I went through that a couple of years ago and the attorney, um, stopped me.

He said we could go after this 40 grand, but at the end of the day, you're gonna have a lot of your time wasted And yeah. Even if you got it all, most of it will be gone. Yes. I was like, oh. And

Mikki Paradise: that was solid advice because that's exactly how it shook out. I think out of the 40 [00:06:00] I got 11. Oh wow. And I was like, that's not, um, helping anybody.

So that was when I decided I would never work in residential again. I used the recession to like build my own estimating software, which at the time was not a thing that was happening in construction. Construction's very behind the times in technology, and I always say that like the only entity slower to adapt to like new anything is like the US government.

It's like construction and the government, like, that's how slow we are to adapt. 'cause we're like, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And I'm like, guys, I hate to bring it. It's broke. It's been broke. It's been broke. So I I, I developed my own estimating software and I did a lot of consulting for these drywall companies that worked in the multifamily arena.

And I was like, oh yes, I like this. Like, I liked the pace of it. I liked. Like how quickly it all happened. And so I kind of learned [00:07:00] while I was doing consulting work, like how to kind of get into that space. And so after the recession we went full blown into multifamily new construction. So apartments and senior living and um, condos and student housing.

So all kinds of like multiple people in one building. That's my jam. So I've been doing that for some, some time now, and that's awesome. I really like it. It's my, it's, it's my happy place.

Wendy Coulter: So that's PDI, drywall. Yep. That's PDI. Now take me to what Mickey's doing today. Oh, God. Because there's so much more, what am I not doing than the drywall company?

Mikki Paradise: So talk

Wendy Coulter: through what you're, so drywall

Mikki Paradise: is, is the main gig. Um, but I'm, I clearly. I think there is an abundance of time in the world and I have all of it. So I then started a, so I'm also a licensed general contractor for funsies. Um, five and a half hour tests, studied for like 70 hours. I was like, I'm gonna be this [00:08:00] licensed general contractor.

And then realized once I had my license that I actually don't work with homeowners. In my regular, like in drywall. And so now I'm a general contractor dealing with homeowners and I was like, uhoh, I don't do well in this arena because I'm used to dealing with people that understand construction. Mm-hmm.

So then it was like having to explain things to homeowners was not where I shined. So I was like, okay, so we're gonna keep the license but we're not doing general contracting work because I was, um. Not great, great at the homeowner part of it. So, um, licensed general contractor. I am a public speaker, so I have been speaking for years.

Um, it's funny 'cause I kinda get pigeon pigeonholed into like the talking about being a woman in a male dominated industry, but. Really over 20 years of being a woman in a male dominated industry. The thing that I like to talk about the [00:09:00] most is really about building confidence and like what it takes to be the only woman in the room.

And like what? Like what tools do you need to have to be that only woman in the room? And so, like one of my keynotes is called Bring your Own Chair. So it's like stop. You go into the room. You don't need anybody to, to make room for you at the table. You don't need somebody to save a spot for you. Just bring your own chair, roll it up, sit at the table and you're at the table.

Wendy Coulter: Or if you're Mickey, you bring your throne or bring my throne. I think I've seen some pictures.

Mikki Paradise: We did some, we did some promotional photos for the, the speech and um, it was so hilarious. We. We're looking for a throne, but like, where do you find a throne? Like where we're just, there's, there's not thrones just laying around town that you could just be like, Ken, can I borrow that?

But the woman who this amazing creative director that put together the whole shoot, she like knew somebody. She was like, Hey, this, we went to this house in this [00:10:00] neighborhood that like, I, I would never be allowed in this neighborhood. Like if I wasn't like on a list to get into this neighborhood, I would not be allowed.

And it's. Okay. But they knew I was coming to pick something up. So we go into this neighborhood, this, it's a, it's a pool with a Versace logo in it. And I was like, oh, wow. Is this a Versace? Like, is it a. The Versa Versace live here. Like what is happening? But I knew I couldn't ask questions. It was like, take the chair and go.

They allowed us to, to borrow this throne, which is their outside pool chair. I can only imagine what their inside chairs look like if their outside pool chair is a literal throne. So we like roll up, throw this chair in the back of our truck, strap it down, go to the photo shoot. Do our shoot, bring it back to this fancy neighborhood and we promptly leave.

And I will never forget that moment. So I do, there is a, a little bit of a throne action, but it's to, you know, [00:11:00] it's to accent the levels, you know, of bringing your own chair. Like you can start off with your little roller chair, but at some point, like at this point when I come to the table, I am sitting in my throne 'cause I am a queen.

And I'm just like, yeah, boo, let's do it. Awesome. So I, lots of public speaking. I also for funsies, just like, 'cause not enough time in the day started a podcast. So chicks in Construction is, is really geared towards women, um, not necessarily women, but homeowners that have. They don't know what they don't know.

When it comes to construction in general, whether it's you, you need a new hot water heater or your HVAC went out or you're doing a whole home renovation. The amount of horror stories that I hear just being in construction, it was getting outta control. So I thought to myself, okay, even though this literally benefits me, none, like your whole [00:12:00] podcast is like, Hey, I'm in marketing.

Let's talk about marketing. I'm like, let's do a podcast that has nothing to do with my business. But we're just really trying to educate people because it hurts my heart, you know, when I hear these stories of people having these really bad experiences. So we kind of have. It's like a two part, like some episodes are an expert comes in and kind of talks about like, Hey, here's what to look out for.

Here's what's normal in the industry, here's what not. And the other episodes are we have homeowners write in and share their homeowner horror stories. Oh yeah. And so we read through the story and we kind of are like, okay, so flag on the play. Like this is where things went, started to go wrong here. And so our hope is to help.

People have less and less homeowner horror experiences because they are like, wait, I watched the Chick Construction podcast and they said, when this happens. Run, don't walk. That's, that's my phrase. Like, when something gets weird, I'm [00:13:00] like, run, don't

Wendy Coulter: walk. I

Mikki Paradise: love

Wendy Coulter: it,

Mikki Paradise: Mickey. Yeah.

Wendy Coulter: So what's a fun fact? No one knows about you.

Mikki Paradise: Oh, there's so many. Um, 'cause I'm just a treasure tro trove of Hidden Secrets. Okay. I will say one thing that people find very surprising about me is that I am a seashell enthusiast. To a point where, right, like you were just shocked right there. Shocked. Sea shell

Wendy Coulter: enthusiast. We have two at the table. Oh God.

Table two at the table. Honestly, if you came in my house, you would realize there's three at the table.

Mikki Paradise: Okay. Thank you. I'm finding my people. Yes, it is. Depending on who you ask a borderline problem, um, I don't think it is, but if you were to look at the amount of seashells in my house mm-hmm. You might be like, Hmm, we're borderline on a problem here.

But it is like my, the most relaxing thing in the world is like going somewhere and I'm hunting for seashells. Right. Like, I'm in my zone, my zone [00:14:00] of excellence. Like I'm gonna find the best seashells. And then I'm gonna clean them. Like it's all the whole thing. It's not just like finding them, because I know a lot of people, and I don't know if you guys have experienced this, that are like, oh, I have shoe boxes just full of seashells.

And I'm like, what are you doing? Putting these, these delectable things into a shoe, into a shoebox display this for the world to see. Like how dare you, like you took it off the beach for someone like me to pick it up. Well only to put it in a box. That's so rude. So like, I get offended. I'm like, no. So let me show you how to display this.

Wendy Coulter: So Hannah's family is down in Wilmington? Yes. Okay. And um, we have a family house at Carolina Beach and my husband. My 16-year-old and I, you will find us at Fort Fisher in the rocks digging. Fort Fisher apparently is the place digging, digging, and it's where we have found the most beautiful palm shells after certain storms and stuff.

Yeah, yeah. [00:15:00] Last, last visit there was not so great, so, but you know, you just never know. Shelling is,

Mikki Paradise: it's hit or miss. I will say I have shelled all over the world. Like I don't do anything halfway. I'm not like, oh, I'll just go to the North Carolina Beach. I'm like, no, I'm gonna Costa Rica, or No, I'm going to El Salvador, or no, I'm going to Turks and Caicos.

Like, I have to take it to the next level. Yeah, there you go. With everything that I do. So we, people are like. You, you like seashells? And I'm like, like seashells. Do I like, do I like breathing? Like yeah, I like seashells. Like, are you kidding me? You're really underselling it. Um, and so one, one thing I, I don't know if you guys do this, but you can watch.

Virtual shelling. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So I follow my boo Charin Who in southwest Florida? Beach life. She's got a YouTube channel. Oh, gotta check that out. Okay. Oh, she's a real deal. I actually booked a shell walk with her the last time I went to the West Coast. That's awesome. And it [00:16:00] was so cool 'cause it was like you got to meet your hero and she was actually.

Awesome. She wasn't like terrible like you met her and you're like, she was awesome. So we did this whole shell walk together and it was wild. 'cause I've been watching her videos for like five years, so it's weird to like, oh, you're real. I'm with you in real life. And we're like picking up seashells and like we know all the names and that's

Wendy Coulter: very cool.

Mikki Paradise: So yes, I think it's a very weird, like, you wouldn't expect that from me, but I'm like, oh no. Yeah. Into this. Like I know like the names and like the actual names, like, and I'm like, oh, and some people call it this, but that's not the wrong name I get so, oh yeah. I get, it's wild. Okay, well you,

Wendy Coulter: you're at a different level I than me with that and say, I fully commit I next time I'm wondering what a show is.

Yeah. If you need to know, I'll get, I, I'll she, and I'll know it using Google Lens. I'll use. I literally have friends

Mikki Paradise: that test me. I have friends that test me. They're like, Hey, what's this? And I'm like, oh, that's a such and such from such and such, and you can find it. And, and then people are [00:17:00] like, oh, you're for real.

And I'm like, I'm like, and you doubt me. Like, come on now. Like, have we met?

Wendy Coulter: How dare you. So you, you said the podcast is about marketing, so I guess we should talk about that. We should talk, talk about marketing a little bit. Yes. Um. And so let's, let's get to a hummingbird effect since that's why we're here.

Allegedly, you could say idea. Um, so, you know, Mickey, 20 years in business. That's amazing. Um, and I love that you've lived that and like me, we've learned so many lessons along the way. Oh, right. Yes. And I think what I love about this show is bringing people on who. It aren't necessarily in the marketing space, but they've seen the effects of that.

Yeah. In a really big way. And so as a business owner, you obviously make decisions about marketing a lot. Um, talk to me about maybe a small tweak or small decision you've made about marketing. That had [00:18:00] a hummingbird effect and led to a really big change in another area.

Mikki Paradise: What I think is really interesting about my kind of hummingbird effect, I guess you could say, is that it wasn't we had no idea that it was gonna lead to what it led to, and it's, and it's, you're gonna think.

How strange that this is such a unique experience, but like, I'm like, remember I work in construction, so years and years and years ago when I first went into business, like I was kind of doing things the way my male counterparts were doing things and um, they were just slightly less effective. . I couldn't figure out why.

I was like, I don't know why I'm not being received as, as, as my male counterparts are. I don't know what the difference here is, but I just was not effective in the traditional way that men communicate on construction sites. So I was like, all right, it's not really in alignment with who I am anyway, so maybe I'll just be myself and we'll just see how that, we'll try that out.

So being myself means that [00:19:00] I am treating people with respect that I am. Really just valuing. Not just my client relationships, but really valuing the relationships of all of the people that work with my company. So our subcontractors, like all of the people that kind of come in contact with us, like the mindset at PDI is, we just are about treating people with respect.

We're about treating people, valuing them for what they're actually worth, which is really. Kind of not common in construction. So we've do little things like we pay. More than industry standard right out the gate. Like, so we don't have to adjust our pay based on what's happening in the market. We, we just, because I've hung drywall and it's heavy and it's hard work and I'm not gonna under, I'm not gonna negotiate with somebody on what I'm gonna pay them.

I'm like, I know how hard this is. I'm gonna pay you this much money, which is very unusual in, in the industry. Like, people will pay you the least amount of money [00:20:00] they can pay you. And we take the opposite approach. So. That's been happening for, for a while now, where we just believe in building relationships and building building bridges instead of just straight up burning them straight to the ground, which is very common construction, right?

Like everybody's just like always fighting with each other. So we kind of unintentionally but intentionally. Just became the company known as the people who were not going to start fights on job sites or not gonna be the problem on a job site. Um, and then we kind of started expanding that out. So. When we are working on construction site, there is a lot of different things happening all at the same time.

So there's drywallers, there's plumbers, there's HVAC people, there's, you know, all these different mechanical people, sprinkler installers, and they're all working at the same time. And a lot of times that creates conflict, right? But my [00:21:00] superintendent Hector, who's also my husband, um, I was smart and that how I, how I planned that out.

Um. Very strategic guy, very strategic. I met him on a job site, stole him away from another drywaller. Um, he is just the nicest human being. Like, it's, it's so funny. I agree with that. I met, met a few times. He is just like the nicest human being you've ever met, and people love working with him, even if they're not, you know, working for him.

So like he, this actually happened. We were, we, we were about to start a job and we kind of came to like check it out and see how everything was going. And framers will, when they're framing, they wear these safety harnesses and so they're connected to something on the roof and. It was like a Disney movie, very like reminiscent of Beauty and the Beast in the beginning song where like Bell's walking through the little French [00:22:00] village and everybody's like, oh, you know, I don't know what they're saying.

They're saying something in French, but they're all very excited to see Belle and they're like, good morning. So we pull up and framers just start. Swinging around the building. Hector? It's Hector. And I was like, this, this is a Disney movie. No one noticed me, which was fine. I was like, wow. Wow, guys. Rude.

I'm also here. But they're like, Hector. Oh my God. So everybody loves to work with Hector because he has this thing where he's like, listen. A lot of trades will make their money off of back charging other trades, especially on these big jobs like holes get cut and a lot of drywallers will make all of their profits off of the backs of the other trades, and I am so adamantly against that, we refuse to charge other trades unless they show what we call blatant disregard for our work product.

, Had no idea that this was going to [00:23:00] turn into like what we are known for, right. Um, and had no idea that this translated into us being the desired drywaller on every job with every trade that's worked for us. So like when, when we show up to a job and people realize PDI is doing a drywall, everybody's like, oh, whew.

You know, like there, there's this like level of relief and people are pushing. When, you know, when they're negotiating their contracts, they're like, so who's gonna be doing the drywall? Is it is PPI gonna be? And they're like we're working on it. Like we're negotiating with Nikki. But she's very, she's a staunch negotiator, which I am.

I read my contracts. So what it, what it turned into was this just. We decided to start tracking like what does it mean for people to want to work with us? Like what does that, does that translate to anything? So we spent three years really like [00:24:00] interviewing people, interviewing other trades, like anybody who is willing to talk to us about their experience on a job with us.

And we found that by creating this environment of, hey. Why don't we work together instead of against each other people? Were 10% more profitable, so all of the trades nice. Were at least 10% more profitable on our jobs than they were on similar size jobs with not PDI on the job. The jobs all finished on time or ahead of schedule, which is unheard of in construction.

And the general contractor processed, I think they said 25% less paperwork related to change orders and. So I'm like, so what does that cost? Like what does that, what's that value for you guys? Processing, like that much less paperwork. Um, and so it was one of those things where it was a very small thing, like just to be nice to people.[00:25:00]

You're like, oh, could change the entire environment on a job site.

Wendy Coulter: Well, and that comes down to like value-based branding. Yeah. Which is, you know, you're not using those words. Right. But that's what we would say right. In our world is, you know, you're, you're creating core values and it's really helping your brand.

Yeah. Make a difference. Yeah. Right. So, um, talk to me about innovation. Um, I know you said you built a software, so I wanna come to that a little bit. Um, because in the middle of all of this, you're building the software, right? Yeah. I think that that plays into the same kind of value based brand that you've been talking about, because I believe, if I remember correctly, when we've talked about your software in the past, that you're really creating transparency.

Mikki Paradise: Yeah.

Wendy Coulter: So talk about that a little bit and how that plays into a hummingbird effect as well.

Mikki Paradise: Well, so [00:26:00] that, you know, it's so amazing in the sense of like, I. I am lucky to have gone to NC State because NC State was, it doesn't matter what major you are. NC State is so invested in teaching their students' technology and so, you know, I graduated in.

2005. It was a hot minute ago, um, where website development was something you paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for because, you know, a very small group of people knew how to develop websites, but NC State was like, we don't care what your major is. You're learning how to develop, how to build a website.

We're, we're teaching you how to code because we know that no matter where you go in life, like this is gonna be a part of your future. So it was. Really in big thanks to NC State for like forcing the technology education upon me, um, that when I kinda came into this, this industry that does not have technology at the time, like they [00:27:00] were using fax machines and you would run in very frequently into, um, companies that did not even have computers in their office.

Right. So it was, it was like, I'm so what? Like you don't have email. And it was, it was, there was kind of a clashing happening because there were these, you know, young bloods being graduated from like ECU, that they were like the first college locally that had a construction management program. So they're coming outta college like.

Going into these big companies saying we need to be using technology. And so all these trades people were like, wait, there's not a, there's not a fax machine. And they're like, no, you're gonna have to email it. And they're like, what's that? So like you think I'm joking, but genuinely, like I did an internship at NC State with a construction company that did not have a computer.

Wow. So like it was real, um. But during the recession, um, there was this, this company that thought, oh, we're gonna sell this. Empty [00:28:00] software to contractors and contractors are gonna code their own estimating software. And I was like, that's adorable. No contractor is ever gonna do that. I was like, but I'll buy your little your umbrella and I'll code all of my own software.

And it's so funny 'cause that this company has been sold so many times now that like they don't even offer the package that I had initially bought because like I literally built all of my own estimating properties and all of like, everything that I estimate is based off of my coding and my. New knowledge of the industry.

And it's funny 'cause I do a lot of, um, consulting for these AI companies that want to build AI estimating software. Mm-hmm. And they're just like, well, we can't get it to do such and such. And I'm like, your coding's not right. And it's like, for me to be saying that to like somebody who actually that's all they do is coding.

I'm just like, yeah, well you need [00:29:00] to tweak this and change that. And so that is a, is a very wild experience. What it did was, was it created. An ability for us to provide really, so like solid estimates. Um, it also created the opportunity for me to really learn how to, how to read plans. And so that is something that is kind of dying out in, in the construction industry where, um, my, I air quotes competitors, I'm like, you are not really competing.

But, um, they don't read plans. So they'll, they'll, they'll throw out a square footage price. Um, to get a job and then come back and be like, oh, well we didn't, we didn't have that in our bid. And it's like, oh, but PDI did. Right? Because we have a system for that. So you're

Wendy Coulter: creating a standard.

Mikki Paradise: We really are.

And we That's, and we have. For, for many years. And so that's kind of the thing is like we are known as, oh, if you have a very complicated set of [00:30:00] plans, like you want PDI on that job because so-and-so's not gonna read the plans. You can give, you know, the other people, the basic stuff that everything's always the same, and they'll do all right in that situation.

But if you've got a weird, you know, five story building that has these really complicated wall systems. PDI is the only one. 'cause they're the ones who know, they actually read the plans and I'm like, you're welcome.

Wendy Coulter: Hannah. What do you think? You know, we've worked, we've worked with quite a few brands that have done things around kind of values-based initiatives.

Um, how, what could they learn from what, what Mickey's got going on here

Hanna Jernigan: I have. I wrote down four just points that you said, I think in the past, like second. So there's, there's plenty to talk about, but I, my first one was someone has to be an industry leader. Um, and in your case, you, you did it. And I would like to unpack that a little bit.

But I'll see my other [00:31:00] three first. Um. Reminder to use your time. You're in a recession, people aren't Yeah. Doing, maybe they aren't calling you as much, so what can you do to spend your time effectively and efficiently, um, and then do the right thing? That was a big thing that you had kind of talked about.

Oh

Mikki Paradise: yeah,

Hanna Jernigan: we were just doing the right thing. Whether it's seeing all the different pieces, right, to quote it out or. Being nice to people. Um, and then shocking, shocking. Start in the right place, which is a little, I was in the middle of writing that one, so I'll get back to it. But going to someone has to be an industry leader.

Can you kind of talk about how you knew the right step to take? Because I mean, obviously there's not, you're, you're right.

Mikki Paradise: You're, you're, you're just throwing right stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks, but it's a little bit, bit more than that. Yeah. Um. I think it, it, a lot of it came from watching other people.

Mm-hmm. And like, it, like whenever I give like young entrepreneurs [00:32:00] advice, like one of the biggest things that I say is like, pay attention. Like pay attention to everybody. What the people that aren't well received are doing what the people who are well received are doing and see like. What is something that you can tweak, that you can kind of, kind of take from both and tweak and make it your own?

And I think that was, I had a really great opportunity to watch somebody who was very intentional about being, um, aggressive and, um. Being a tyrant, if you will, in the industry. And so I got to see that and see what that created and really realized it wasn't creating what he thought it was. Like he thought it was creating respect.

He thought it was creating people, um, listening to him and valuing his opinion. But in reality it was creating just people being like [00:33:00] this guy. And so I saw that and I was like, Ooh, I don't want. I don't want that to be people's reaction to me. You know, like it mattered to me. How people felt when I walked in the room.

I didn't want people to be like, oh, here we go. You know? And it does happen a little bit. 'cause, 'cause I, I, I have to play a certain role in the company, right? And so there are people who, when I walk in the room, they're like, Mickey's here. And I'm just like, yes, I am. But for the most part it was really, it was watching the other people and how they were received and learning from their mistakes.

I think that's the best advice that anybody can take is learning from other people's mistakes so that you don't have to be the one making it. Like that's way more fun.

Wendy Coulter: So I wanna, I wanna unpack this idea, Hannah, of being the leader. Yeah. Um, and I'm just curious if you've seen an effect of what you've done that has changed what other people do [00:34:00] now.

Like, have you seen. Have you commanded respect because you give it to the point where you see people who were not respectful in the past changing their ways and maybe their brand's becoming Yeah. Better too. Like, is it a trickle effect, um, in

Mikki Paradise: your industry? It's great. It's great question. Um, I, yes. And also, I'm not sure it's like a, a two, it's a two way.

Like I, I know that when we are, when we talk about, like we, we just started a project and it's already kind of off to a rocky start. So we were at a job meeting and I was like, Hey guys, listen. Let me just explain to you like there are two ways that this can go. We can go the hard way that, that we're all gonna, it's gonna cost us all money and we're gonna not like each other at the end, and we're not gonna like coming to work and we're not gonna like this job or This's other option where we could just work together and we could [00:35:00] look at each other as all teammates instead of, um.

Somebody that we are trying to get over on. Mm-hmm. And you look at this as like, we are one entity working towards the same goal. And I was like, I guarantee you, if we take that approach. You will enjoy this job more. You will want to be here. This will be the job that is the least of your problems.

Because when we're all working together, we, everybody gets a better result. Not just me, not just you, everybody. And, um, there were definitely some, some eye rolls in the room. I was like, okay. Um, not all, not everybody's on board, but I'm like, that's cool. I'll get you on board. Like if I could just get one person to, to get on board.

So I have definitely seen. Jobs completely shift from being chaos to being like, Ugh, I love this job. I love coming to this job. This is my favorite job that we have. Because we were so intentional about just like, [00:36:00] oh no man, we're not gonna charge you for that. Like, just let me know when it's ready and I'll patch it up.

And they're like, what? And I'm like, yeah, no, just, just let me know and or like, we'll go out there right now and we've taught. Other trades, how to put drywall back so that all we have to do is tape it. And they're like, you, you'll take the time to teach us how to do that. And we're like, yeah, because we're invested in this being a, a mutually beneficial experience.

And they're like, wow. So on jobs, I have definitely seen a massive just change of the whole mood. Like everybody's working together, everybody's enjoying themselves. Now whether they are. Putting the pieces together, putting the pieces together. I am not sure, but I definitely know that my general contractors see it.

Right? And so they're like, we, we really have this, this reputation, especially with a couple of the ones we've done a lot of jobs with, where they're like. A lot of stuff has to happen before we show up on a job, but they're like, oh my God, we just, we cannot [00:37:00] wait until PDI gets on this job. Like once they get here, everything will be fine.

'cause we have that ability. It's like, I call it Hector. He's like, I call him the conductor. 'cause basically like we get to a job and everybody where it's like a giant orchestra, but they're all on this the wrong page. They're like, everybody's playing on the sheet music from different spot. Nobody has any idea what they're doing.

An actor comes in, he's like, everybody, page five. And we're gonna start here and we're gonna finish here. And everybody's like, oh, okay. And then we're all, all of a sudden, like, we start making beautiful music. And I'm like, you guys, like we're doing a thing here. And so I, I know the GCs see it and feel it.

Mm-hmm. And they will really fight for us on, on jobs where, you know, somebody else, they want the cheapest price. They're like, Nope. Cheapest price is not always the best price. Like what we need is PDI because this job is gonna be tough and they're gonna get everybody working together. And so that definitely has been just a, a kind of, I [00:38:00] don't know if it's going out, but at least on the jobs we're on, like we're seeing that effect.

And it is really nice 'cause it's like we've started jobs that were chaos and me and Hector looked at each other like, oh. If we can do it, but by the end of it we're like, yes, everybody's best friends, we're all going for beers after work. This is amazing because that doesn't always happen. Like you see that on tv, but in on actual job sites, like sometimes it's like, make you get down here.

Somebody's about to punch so and so, and I'm like, oh God, I'd much rather not.

Wendy Coulter: Well, so you've talked about using, you know. I'm gonna call it core values to become a leader in the industry. You talked about measuring results. Yeah. And great job at measuring the results. I kind of learned that from you.

You're doing good. I'm so glad. Yes. Yes. I give good advice every now and then. Yes, you are

Mikki Paradise: very good at what you doing. And I was like, [00:39:00] if,

Wendy Coulter: if

Mikki Paradise: I

Wendy Coulter: were Wendy,

Mikki Paradise: I would be measuring this.

Wendy Coulter: I think doing that insight with customers, you know, and learning what the results are from the job is amazing. Um, and then you've talked about kind of where things are today, but how can you take what's happened to this point?

What is your vision for learning from that? What's next? Like, what's the next thing that you do with that?

Mikki Paradise: Um, I think it's really, so for me, what is what I'm trying to be next. The next thing is, is teaching as many people as I can, um, that there are alt alternate ways to like, do things in construction.

Um, I'm, I'm, I am a huge advocate of, of women going into construction and kind of showing them all the good and bad. Like I have to, I have to. Be give them both sides. 'cause I don't want anybody to be shocked when they show up to a job site and [00:40:00] somebody's like, Hey sweet cheeks. 'cause that will happen.

Oh yeah. Somebody called me sweetheart the other day and I, I like Poltergeist. Turned my head like, it was so slow and menacing. That was like, sweetheart, really? Um, but you know, so like mm-hmm. Preparing women for like, Hey there, this is an amazing opportunity. Women are so needed in construction. But, but, but this might happen.

And just be aware of this and just here's how I would handle this if you run into this. Um, so it is a lot of encouraging people to go into the trades, to be, to operate from a place of like core values or we call it just like integrity, right? Um, like having that integrity and, and, and, and being very open about why it matters.

Um. And I like and really encouraging people to have the confidence to go into anything that that is kind of calling to them. But they nec don't [00:41:00] necessarily feel like, like they have a place at that table, which is where kind of the public speaking comes in. Where I'm really passionate about going out and telling as many people as I can about the importance of.

Having the confidence to really go after what it is that you want. You know, like I spent 20 years being somebody who wasn't necessarily welcome in the room, and really the trick to that is not caring, like, listen. I knew at some point in my career that I may not be wanted at that table, but I was absolutely needed.

Yeah. And so there's a lot of people in the construction industry that may not be wanted, but are absolutely needed, and women are definitely in that category.

Wendy Coulter: Well, I wanna unpack the importance for mentoring, um, a little bit. So what I know about you, because we go back so long, is that you have had mentors Oh yeah.

A few mentors along, along the way that made a big, made a big difference. And now you're mentoring Yeah. Women. Yeah. [00:42:00] Can you just talk about that experience and the things that have made an impact? 'cause my guess is there's some hummingbird effects to unpack there too, but. Let's just talk about women and mentoring because it's a world I'm in as well.

Oh God.

Mikki Paradise: Yeah.

Wendy Coulter: Right. And what impact has that had, and how are you carrying that forward?

Mikki Paradise: I'll say, it was so funny. I did not have any idea the importance and the value of, of a mentor until I had one. And then it was like, oh my goodness. And it was, it, it wasn't, it's funny 'cause people always ask me like, oh, well how did that come about?

And it was basically like I met a woman who was dynamic, not in construction at all. So she had owned, um, her name is Mary Cando. Everybody knows Mary. Yes. But. Um, she's like the most well known. Like I drop her name all over places. I'm like Mary Nandos, that's, oh no. And Mary's amazing. Yes, she is. Yes. And so I met her.

She, she had just started, um, a program that she was helping women grow their, their comp companies to the million dollar [00:43:00] mark. And I was just under that and it was like the most frustrating thing. 'cause every year I'd think I was gonna break the, the, the million dollar mark and like a contract would get pushed or something would happen.

I couldn't get over that hump. So she was starting this program called The Women's Advantage. And so I joined and I just kind of like was like, you are mine now. Like, I did not ask her to be my mentor. I just forced my relationship on her. It was like, you're, I have questions, you have answers. And eventually it was just like, yeah, Mary's my mentor by force.

She doesn't have a choice at this point, like she has to answer my calls. Um, but that was, um. Really pivotal in, in, in the, in the smallest of ways that made the biggest of impacts, um, down to like Mary's, Mary's whole claim to fame is her, her motto is, Mary doesn't do any actual work that is like, she'll tell everybody that, like, that is her goal is like she doesn't actually wanna [00:44:00] do any real work.

Like she'll, she loves. Supporting the, the global economy or the local economy and like outsourcing literally everything or like getting you to do something for her so she doesn't have to do it. And it was like a great thing to watch because I was in the phase where many women business owners are of doing it all myself.

So like I remember Mary sitting down and having this conversation with me 'cause I didn't wanna hire a cleaning lady. I have like English mastiffs, my house is a mess if there's not somebody actively working on that, right? So I was spending a bunch of time like laundry and all this stuff, and Mary was like, okay.

So she sat me down. She calculated how much time that I was spending on that stuff that I could be spending on estimating. And then if one of my estimates was accepted, like the amount of money that I was wasting. Doing laundry. And it's like, this seems like such a [00:45:00] basic concept, like who doesn't know this?

But a mentor, especially in, in female, you know, a female mentor. Me mentoring a female in business. It was shocking to me, like the amount of money that I was like, are you kidding me? So like I could just, I could just pay this lady to like clean my house and then I'm out here making the money to pay the and and she's like, yeah.

And I'm like, wow. And that. Sparked so much, so much change in my business. I hired a cleaning lady, I hired a this and a that, and I stopped doing all of these things that I did not really have time for, and I just focused on my business. And the next year I grew to over a million dollars. And it was like, so something as simple as stop cleaning your house.

Stop doing, like stop wasting your time doing your laundry. Like find somebody to do that.

Wendy Coulter: Grow your business. I do love mowing the grass sometimes. I love that. I love your are wild animals. It is such just [00:46:00] a, I am mindless. Mindless. Satisfying. Yeah. Impressed. I get to c an end result, God, and I get my steps saved.

My God. Today I sweat my, I have to mow my

Mikki Paradise: lawn. It is, something has gone, gone wrong. I have a guy for that, his name is Mauricio. He just shows up. I don't even schedule him like he is like magic. He just knows to stop by. He's like, oh, it's Mickey's. Grass is gonna be up to her knees. I better go, I better go get on that.

Like, and Mauricio comes and I'm like, I love you Mauricio. Take all my money. You know, like 0%.

Wendy Coulter: Well I think the other story I heard in a similar vein from you was the first class plane ticket. Oh, story. Yes. Yeah. So let, so let's unpack that one then. I'm gonna let, um, Hannah take us home. Okay.

Mikki Paradise: Yeah. So, so.

When I met Mary, she only f flew first class, and I, I was not at the level of, of flying first class, but I was very bitter about it. [00:47:00] I was like, I was like, I don't, I'm not basic. I don't wanna sit and coach. I don't, I'm not here for that. I want first class. And then I saw how much first class tickets cost, and I was like, that's very offensive.

Um, I can't pay that much money. And now it's hilarious 'cause I only fly first class. Like if I can't get a first class ticket, I'm like, I'm sorry I can't attend your event or whatever it is. Like, there's no first class to where you are. So sorry. Unless you want to play, pay for a private train to take me to where you are.

I can't come. It's not really that serious. I will, I will fly non first class if I have to, but, um. That was, was a, was a thing where I realized, you know, I, from time to time, I get a little travel anxiety. And so the benefit of getting on the plane first and off the plane first is like so calming to that travel anxiety.

Mm-hmm. And so there's all these benefits that I get from flying first class that [00:48:00] like, I had no idea. It was just worth the money for me. Now, there's a lot of people out there. I'm gonna break the fourth wall. There's a lot of people out there that are like, that is the stupidest waste of money. But it's really about what I call like your value proposition.

Like for me, I will spend an offensive amount of money on a first class ticket because that is what I value. I value the comfort, I value getting on the plane quickly, getting off the plane quickly. Like I don't even care about the food or the free drinks. 'cause honestly, I can't eat it anyway and I can't drink it anyway.

It's the comfort, it's the, just the peace of mind. Um, but that took me a really long time to understand the importance of that, like, the importance of valuing my comfort myself. Like I'm a drywaller, like my body. If you, if you squish me into this teeny tiny seat. It's probably gonna take me two days for my back muscles to release, so I can actually enjoy whatever it is that I'm doing.

But if I fly first class and I have plenty of room, like I'm [00:49:00] comfortable, I get off the plane, I'm good. So that, that upgrade to the first class, it was really investing in myself and I, it was not something that I looked at from that perspective. Like it was like. This is silly waste of money. Oh no, it is not.

It is not. And people will still be like, that's just like my neighbor is a delight, but he will really hound me about my first class flights. And I'm just like, go ahead bud. Like this is my value proposition and I'm happy. I'm happy. It's not your flight, it's mine. So you go ahead and fly Southwest. I'm fine with that.

I'll be on whatever flight has a first class ticket to that destination.

Wendy Coulter: Well, I guess a brand that's changing is, is Southwest, so we'll see. Yeah, we'll see what is about to happen there. I know, I saw that. Are they gonna add first class too? Please do. What are they gonna do? I'll actually fly because you're gonna get to choose your seats now.

So it's just, God, it's gonna be interesting. That is gonna be a big branding change. That is, [00:50:00] that

Mikki Paradise: is gonna be, and, and I'm, I'm surprised it took this long, to be perfectly honest. Like they held out for a while. They were true

Wendy Coulter: to it. They were for a long time. So Hannah, bring us home. Oh, I know you've been taking notes.

I Crazy woman. As usual. She has. I'm so impressed

Mikki Paradise: with your note taking ability. Oh goodness.

Hanna Jernigan: Well, no, you should, you have to follow the arrows. This one. This one. Curls. Um, and honestly. You guys will hear it. I'm struggling with the exact change, so, and I have like seven wrote down. So I said that you're in an industry that is slow to change, and the small change you made was, and I wrote be herself, but I've also wrote that you went to nc, that you chose NC State you shifted your focus, you.

I don't know, focused on the benefits to your company, to yourself. So insert your change. But they all played into these huge, tremendous differences in your company. To me it sounds like more people want to be a part of it. [00:51:00] More people want to just have you guys in the room to boost morale. Boost.

Yeah. Efficiency. The reputation of PDI now like it sounds like if something's on fire. They don't care the cost they're calling you, right?

Mikki Paradise: They're like, call Pdia, which is a really nice

Hanna Jernigan: place to be in. I mean, maybe not for you every time, but to know that they have you for the industry. You've added or given them the software to make these changes, but also just for others.

Um. Again, you did not say this specifically, but it sounds like you've really empowered others to, or given the permission to be kind and to be different. Yeah. And to not address someone the way that they ne they would. Yeah. 'cause they know you guys are there and you'll support them and doing the right thing rather than saving Right.

$3 on something else. What is easy

Mikki Paradise: versus what is Right. So there, there's

Hanna Jernigan: a lot of. A lot of changes that [00:52:00] came from just. Being nice. Yeah. You know, isn't

Mikki Paradise: that wild? Like, just like treating people with respect and like this mentality of like, hey, we, what can we build together versus building, working against each other?

Um. And there's so much more that you can build mm-hmm. Together. Even though it's like, listen, your, my company and your company have nothing to do with each other. Our profits are completely separate. But magically, when we have this mentality of building together and we work together and we treat each other with respect and we treat each other's work product with respect, we all make more money.

So I'm like, it's all kind of connected guys. I'm like, are we having a MM night shalon moment here? Like are we revealing the big reveal at the end? Like actually we all make money when we're just nice to each other.

Hanna Jernigan: And another, and that's a really big piece also is you took the time to figure that out.

Mikki Paradise: Yeah.

Hanna Jernigan: Rather than just. [00:53:00] Continuing on. Yeah. Yeah. In the industry that just continues on.

Mikki Paradise: And that made a big difference with our clients. So when, because we did take three years to really track this, um, when we go to potential new clients or even with our current clients, um, and we show them the data and it's just like, well, this isn't just us saying right, right.

Like there's actually data that backs this up and we can prove that this is, this mentality is beneficial. Um, it's a much easier sell for people to kinda let us come in and do our thing. 'cause they're like, oh, well, we're, we'll finish quicker, we'll make more money. Everybody on the job will be happier.

Okay. Right. So that, and that was a, honestly, that was inspired by, by you, Wendy. 'cause we had worked together and you had done some data collection and I was like, okay, we're gonna data collect like Wendy, Wendy would do it this way. We're gonna do it. So thank you for that.

Wendy Coulter: Well Mickey, thank you and thank you for being on the show today.[00:54:00]

Um, it's been great to have you. I have had a

Mikki Paradise: blast. I hope that you're feeling good about not having a script. I hope that you're, you're like, this was great. I,

Wendy Coulter: I'll find out from

Mikki Paradise: Joe if,

Wendy Coulter: um, if this Joe worked out, Joe, we're scrapping this

Mikki Paradise: whole episode. Sorry. He's like, we're gonna have to reschedule.

Wendy Coulter: No, I, I feel pretty good and, um, thank you for giving me the confidence to do that.

I'm glad, I'm glad that I can inspire that from you,

Mikki Paradise: from the queen.

Wendy Coulter: Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm so happy to be on. So for everyone watching and listening, thank you for joining us today and after hearing Mickey's story, I hope you'll go out and find your own hummingbird effect. Fourth wall.

Hanna Jernigan: Yeah. No, I was doing, I was like, are we all gonna do it?

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