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Welcome to "This is Health, Wealth, and the Pursuit of Happiness" your source for insightful discussions with economist and author, Dr. Murray Sabrin. Join us as we challenge convention, expand minds, and pursue truth.
Murray Sabrin (00:01.459)
Welcome to Health, Wealth, and the Pursuit of Happiness. I'm Murray Sabrin, B A, A, Ph D. There's No BS in my background, never has been, and never will be. On this podcast, we explore the ideas, people, and principles that shape healthier lives, greater prosperity, and human flourishing. In each episode, we'll challenge conventional wisdom on healthcare, economics, politics, and personal freedom so you can think independently, make better decisions, and pursue your happiness.
Thanks for joining us today, August 6, 2026. And before I introduce my guest, I just want to let you know today is a very special anniversary in my life because 77 years ago I arrived in America with my parents and my older brother. My parents were the only ones who survived the Holocaust in the native Poland. And my older brother was given to a Christian family to be protected during the Holocaust for a year, and then my parents picked him up and
They moved from Poland to West Germany, and I was born there in 1946. So President Trump and I have the same birth year as as well as Bill Clinton and George W. Bush. So when whenever you're on Jeopardy and they ask that question, who are the four people who were born on in in 1946? You have an idea. Three presidents and yours truly. Anyway, it's a great pleasure to introduce my next guest who I've known for many years.
And let me introduce Jeff Dice, who's the chief risk officer at Monetary Metals. Jeff spent 10 years as the president of the Mises Institute, where he wrote hundreds of articles and delivered countless speeches on topics of monetary on monetary policy, gold, and central banking. Prior to that, he worked on Capitol Hill as Chief of Staff for Congressman Ron Paul, as you will remember, ran for president seeking the GOP nomination in 2008 and 2012.
He previously worked as an attorney in law firms and public accounting firms, specializing in private equity, mergers and acquisitions, and Jeff holds a degree in law and taxation. Jeff, it's great to see you and great to be with you on Health, Wealth and Pursuit of Happiness Podcasts.
jeff (02:11.526)
Thank you, Maria. It was a a fascinating story. I remember I believe it was your brother wrote a manuscript of sorts about your family's story.
Murray Sabrin (02:20.669)
Well, my father wrote it in his native language, Yiddish and Polish, which is which is what the national language was in Poland. But he wrote it on a typewriter. My brother bought him, and it's available on Amazon called We Dare to Live, and it talks about all the things that he did during World War II in order to survive. And I'm f I was familiar with all the stories in the book except the last one, which I urge people to get, We Dare to Live.
jeff (02:26.87)
okay.
Murray Sabrin (02:50.003)
Because it's a harrowing story about how the war ended for him in July of 1944 when the Soviet army came into his area of Poland and liberated the Polish partisans. And so it's it's a fascinating story. It should be made into a movie because many of the movies you see on World about World War II, they're embellished, but his story is really remarkable, how he was able to survive for five years.
Remember, Poland was invaded in September of 1939, and he wasn't liberated till July of 1944. So five years of his life he gave to defend Poland against the Nazi onslaught. And fortunately he made it, but all his siblings and parents and other relatives didn't make it. The only relative I knew that that was close to him that made it was his first cousin, who came to America a few years before we did. And that's how we got the name Sabron, because when he came to America.
He anglicized the the the say the Chabrinski name from to Sabron, and that's how we became the Sabron family. So anyway, Jeff, it's great to be with you. You worked on Capitol Hill, you saw how the sausage was made with bills becoming law. tell us a little bit about your experience working on Capitol Hill with for Congressman Ron Paul.
jeff (04:10.382)
Well, it just you come to understand that the stated objectives are not the real objectives. It's just that simple. And and not to be cliche or trite, say, my gosh, these politicians are hypocrites and and they don't know anything or they're corrupt or whatever. I mean, honestly, I would say that the people in Congress are actually somewhat representative.
Of the American people in the sense of their own mediocrity, in the sense of their lack of economic understanding or or curiosity or knowledge. And there's just a a a mindset in Washington that that Congress can do magical things, that it can you know, via legislation. And of course, you and I would prefer a a discovered, not a positive law system. We would we would prefer a common law system of discovered or judge-made law to this, you know.
Centralized positive law beast we call the U.S. Congress. But nonetheless, there's a lot of unbelief. There's a lot of of thinking that the laws of economics either don't exist or can be overcome. And I think we've seen that intensify and accelerate since Dr. Paul left office, which is almost 10 years ago, more than 10 years ago now. And so it's not so much that.
the individuals in Congress are stupid or evil on an individual level. It's it's more that there's a systemic issue with what we think government can and should do. And most of that is is either uneconomic or anti-economic. In other words, we we think of politics and it's properly as as zero sum or even negative sum. And I I think at least your listeners think of capitalism properly as positive sum, as win-win.
As both parties to an exchange being better off. So Washington, DC is a is a negative someplace, I gu I guess would be my ultimate answer.
Murray Sabrin (06:09.459)
I've been watching Washington, I guess, since I was 13, and President Kennedy was elected in November of 1960. And I rem remember vividly the inaugural address he gave on Jan January 20th, 1961. There was a huge snowstorm the day before, so schools were closed. So I was able to watch his inaugural. It was a bright, sunny, cold day in Washington. I'm listening very intently, and I describe it in my book, From Immigrant to Public Intellectual. I just did a
jeff (06:19.148)
Mm.
Murray Sabrin (06:39.299)
an overview of of that on a specific podcast today. And it's just amazing how the country has changed so dramatically from the time Kennedy was elected. And the point I made regarding coming to America in nineteen forty nine is that we've been involved in undeclared wars since then. The Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Iraq, the two wars in the Mid East, now another war in the Mideast, the Ukraine War.
And so that is a major change in in American society since w we came to America in 1949. Plus, the welfare state has grown by leaps and bounds. In 1949, Social Security was a minuscule pr program. Medicare and Medicaid were not around. The the the Great Society programs were still not even thought about. It was just the New Deal that was implemented.
And unfortunately, the Republicans never pushed back. And my theory is that because the Republicans didn't push back on the New Deal and Great Society, Democratic Socialism is taking both programs of the New Deal and Great Society and taking it to its logical conclusion, where government's gonna run your life, it's gonna run the major industries. And unfortunately, the Republicans have bought into this whole notion of: well, let's have some equity interest in US corporations under the Trump administration, which is it's ironic that you have Trump officials.
coming on T V decrying socialism when you have a president that's probably done more for socialism in America than any other president.
jeff (08:10.763)
Well, it's interesting though, the way the the the right wing in this country, conservatives, or at least the GOP, have g effectively given their sanction to all of the programs of the Wilson and FDR era, of all the programs of the LBJ era. all those were radical ideas at the time. All of those were considered left wing or or or socialists at the time. And now they're just part of the landscape. They're like the plants in the background. We don't even think about. Nobody runs.
On a platform of making any serious adjustments to either the foreign war machine in the Pentagon or the entitlement regime, which is Social Security and Medicare more than anything else. I mean, we spend a lot of money on things like WIC and AFDC. We spend a lot of money on all kinds of socialist ag programs, I mean you name it, but it's Social Security and Medicare.
Are the big ones by far. And no no national politician can even think about touching those. So what that means is that both parties in this country have accepted as normal or ordinary or as part of g government's purview a whole panoply of programs that that are deeply anti-market, that are again negative sum and that make us all worse off. So I
you know, it's easy to despair, but maybe the instead of despairing we should just think that the answers to these things lie outside of politics or at least the current political system.
Murray Sabrin (09:45.066)
What I want to say next is there's good segue into what you do as as the chief risk officer for monetary metals, which is a company you joined a few years ago. And that is since 1949, the value of the dollar has plummeted. In fact, it's probably plummeted about 90 percent in value since 1949. And since the Federal Reserve was created in 1913, I think the value of the dollar is is declined by ninety-five percent.
jeff (09:58.614)
Yeah.
Murray Sabrin (10:11.915)
And we're coming up to another anniversary, one of the most important anniversaries in American history. That is August 15th, 1971. President Nixon not only imposed wage price controls, but he severed the last link between the dollar and gold. And your company is heavily involved in gold and silver. And I want to get into how your company was formed, what what's the goal, what's the mission, what are you trying to accomplish with your customers?
And get into the whole notion of the whole money issue, which Dr. Paul made the a pr premier part of his presidential campaigns in 2008 and 2012 with his end the Fed campaign. So give us some idea of what it was like to be in the midst of that as his chief of staff, and then we'll get into monetary metals and what monetary metals is trying to accomplish with its service to the American people.
jeff (11:11.563)
Well, I think what Ron was trying to do, and what a lot of economists have tried to do is is simply demystify money, demystify monetary policy. It shouldn't be this complicated beast that none of us could understand. You shouldn't need a PhD in economics to understand you know, the basic role of money and and government treasuries and central banks, although I would certainly argue, and I know you would, that we don't need the latter. And you know, all of this sh should not be.
part of wonkish economics, right? Monetary policy before Ron came along, even amongst economists, was considered sort of a backburner issue, not exciting. And it was for the wonkiest of of economists. And Ron made monetary policy, I think, more important in the eyes of the average person, or at least more understandable in the eyes of the average person. And not everyone may understand and it's no crime not to understand.
the machinations of the the Federal Reserve system, how it works vis-a-vis the US Treasury, how money is issued, how debt is created both at the the level of the Federal Reserve, but also by commercial banks themselves. I mean, there's a lot of complexity to all that and people have lives to live and mortgages to pay and families and careers to have. So you know, we understand that. But I do think one one thing Ron was able to do is sort of give people the sense that something was wrong.
That something was rotten. And I d I do think they sense that. And I mean, gosh, you know, just the last five years or so, I see these debates about inflation on Twitter. And mostly what people are arguing about, of course, is price inflation. But there's two other kinds of inflation: asset inflation and monetary inflation. So there's really three different definitions or categories of inflation. And I I think
That things have gotten much worse for average people. I see, let's say, a s a a single mom who's got a couple little kids in an apartment, you know, in your old neck of the woods, let's say in New Jersey, and she's getting by on $30,000, $35,000 a year. I mean, that is really tough sledding. And so the ability of average people to get ahead, I think, has
jeff (13:34.578)
has been challenged like never before. And I think that I think the answer is very simple. It's that simple savings rates that ought to be available to anyone. you know, a a demand a a a checking account savings account rate at a bank, a simple short term certificate of deposit or money market rate, just a simple, easy to obtain rate of interest for an average person ought to be higher.
than the true rate of price inflation in in a healthy economy, right? In other words, average people should be able to get ahead not by buying Bitcoin or Fang stocks or Tesla or going out there and chasing yield and taking all kinds of risks and spending all of their free time studying markets. No, they ought to be able to get ahead like my great grandparents did simply by spending less than their total income.
And putting the difference in a very simple savings vehicle, right? That's all my great-grandparents had to do. Now, I I'm not saying it was easy for them, I'm saying it was simple for them. That's all they had to do because money was not eroding, in my opinion, anyway, at the rate it is today. And so when when real inflation at all levels, when I'm talking about, you know, inflation and things like tuition and healthcare, not just
at the gas pump or groceries. When when inflation at all levels is higher than simple savings rates, then saving money becomes for chumps and borrowing money becomes more more attractive, living beyond your means. So that I think is one of the great tragedies of our age is that you can't just get ahead through simple thrift. And that's something that we all ought to be you know, pitchforks and guillotines, as far as I'm concerned.
And so I think that was that was what in a sense Dr. Paul and a lot of other really good people in in have been trying to do, which is basically take this opaque thing called the Fed that that seems so difficult to understand and explain to people how they're being ripped off. I think that was the goal.
Murray Sabrin (15:51.78)
One of the things I think the Mises Institute, where you were for what, 10 years, I believe, they have this is the year of Rothbard since the 100th anniversary of his birth in 1926. This month they're giving away, I believe, the case for a hundred percent gold dollar, which is just an outstanding essay on why the dollar should be a gold-backed currency. Remember, the dollar is nothing in and of itself. The dollar was defined originally as one-twentieth of an ounce of gold, roughly, and it's been
That relationship has been taken away since Richard Nixon when it was one thirty-fifth of an ounce of gold. But anyway, we'll get we'll get to that issue sometime in the future. But in the meantime, how does your company, Monetary Metals, help the average saver not only get a decent rate of return, but can see that that that initial capital grow over time?
jeff (16:44.909)
Well, it's a very simple concept. I mean, I don't know whether in twenty twenty six whether gold should be money or something else should bunt be money. What I do know is that money, like any other commodity, is best produced by a free market and not by a cartel of central banks, not by state treasuries or you know, issuing greenbacks as they see fit. So what we have is trillions and trillions of dollars worth of physical metal.
all over the the world, mostly gold, but also silver, platinum, other metals. And when it's funny, when I first started at monetary metals, there's about $13 trillion worth of of gold at you know fair market value above the ground. And now it's way more than that because gold's more than doubled. So you've got maybe 20, 25 trillion dollars of of an asset laying around and it's basically fallow. It's sitting in vaults, it's it's actually costs money.
To hold because you have to insure it or you have to put it in a vault or or or worry about it at home or whatever you do. And it just it just at one point struck our founder, Keith Wiener, that you know, this is bizarre that this tremendously valuable asset, whether you want to call it money or not, and governments don't currently let us use gold as money. That's we should be clear there. it's a it's an asset that's deeply underutilized. It's fallow.
If $20 trillion worth of, let's say, real estate were laying around somewhere and no one was using it as collateral, that would strike us at as odd, wouldn't it? So we I think our founder Keith just had an idea that, hey, look, let's pull some of that moneyness out of gold. Gold still has a money feature, it's still a monetary asset in a very important sense. And I would argue that that's proven by the fact that
at whatever, let's say $4,100 an ounce, that that's more that the public or the market, I should say, spontaneously sees more value in gold than simply its use value, let's say a jewelry or industrial applications. If if that's all gold were, I don't think it would be $4,100 an ounce. But that's not all gold is. And I think we know that because central banks, for example, continue to buy it.
Murray Sabrin (19:06.249)
Mm-hmm.
jeff (19:06.431)
in in large quantities. And I think that is evidence of its moneyness. In other words, there's the premium paid for an ounce of gold above and beyond its value as an industrial or jewelry metal. And I believe that premium represents its moneyness. And that's a term Hayek actually used. And there can be degrees of moneyness. There can be better and worse money, just like there can be better or worse automobile or anything else.
But nonetheless, I do think that the market continues to tell us that there's something about gold that is monetary in nature. And so to the extent we can within the law, let's use it as such. Let's use gold to finance production, just like we would use money, right? If you have $10 million in US dollars, you probably don't want to just leave all that in a checking account all day that's earning no interest. You want to
Put it to use. Same thing with gold. It shouldn't just sit around as an asset. You should put it to use. So we have found ways through lending to projects like refineries and mines, using using security laws, use you know, issuing securities under SEC rules to finance those projects whereby the the mine, the refiner actually produces the metal they need.
To pay the bond back, right? You don't have a balance sheet difference between holding cash and owing gold or vice versa. You're producing the same thing you owe. And we've also found a market take using gold that people own and actually leasing it to, let's say, big jewelry chains in the UAE. And what we're able to offer them is a fixed cost of capital, right? If that jewelry chain goes out and borrows $10 million or $100 billion.
And buys gold inventory. Well, now they own a bunch of gold inventory. They owe $10 million in cash to a lender. And if gold goes down, they might have raw material gold that's only worth $9 million, but they still have a $10 million liability on their books plus interest. Whereas with us, they can get that gold in in a lease form where as they sell it, they're replenishing the supply, paying us back at the end.
jeff (21:23.531)
And so they don't have to worry about that gold price exposure and they don't have to go hedge if they borrow in dollars or euros or durhums or whatever they do. So it's a it's it's not the most, you know, comp let's say intuitive or natural business model. It sometimes takes some explaining both to the to the jeweler and to the potential investor, but w we've made a a lot of head roads in in 10 ish.
years and I think that as more and more people around the world including central bankers including government treasuries including politicians start to understand that currencies are being destabilized every day by their own issuers i don't think gold's gonna go anywhere i'm not anti-bitcoin i'm i'm not i'm not a gold bug in the sense that i
Pine for $10,000 gold or $50,000 gold. On the contrary, I think that that that would that those kind of prices would occur when something really awful was happening in the economy. And I and I don't want that. And it's not my contention that we ought to necessarily be going back to gold as money or that although we certainly could, and gold could be used digitally today in a way that would make it infinitely divisible. You wouldn't have to deal with gold coins and melting and all that. But what I do know is that.
gold has a lot of value that was being untapped. And that's that's what monetary metals is is about, trying to pull value at out of gold that's sitting around and make it productive.
Murray Sabrin (23:04.201)
So if someone becomes a customer, a client of monetary metals, they wire you a check. And for tr t total transparency, I am a customer of trend of monetary metals. So the check went to monetary metals. What do they do with that money once it's in the customer's account? And how do how do they earn interest on that on the money that they deposited with you?
jeff (23:31.426)
Well, a lot of people send us physical metal, believe it or not. And we do we do accept as such. Well, basically we buy metal on on their behalf. We open an account for them. That metal sits in in various physical depositories in the United States and Canada in some instances and Switzerland in some instances, unless until they decide to use some of it in a in a
Murray Sabrin (23:34.109)
Okay.
jeff (23:59.734)
Monetary metals product, that could be a lease, that could be a bond, it could be some sort of commercial financing instrument. And then we take their portion of that metal, we pool it with other investor metals, and we put it into the particular product, and they retain title to their metal in not in a bond or a lending product, but in a in a leasing product, and but they take risk.
They put that metal to use. They allow, let's say, a jeweler, a jewelry chain to use it for a year. And in exchange, they they get lease payments, yield payments from the jeweler, the which we remit back into their account. So their account grows while the year goes by and the the metal that previously they might have had at home, that might have been sitting somewhere, that might have been in a safe deposit box is actually being used.
And earning them some additional ounces of of metal. We pay them additional metal and the same type of metal, usually gold or silver, that they invested with us. So I don't want to characterize this as risk-free. You know, it's obviously zero risk or very low risk to keep your gold in a vault or or keep it at home. And so if you're out there putting it into let's say a lease product, there there is some risk that the the jeweler or someone else could could fall over, but that is
something that we take great pains to mitigate in terms of risk. We do a a a tremendous amount of due diligence. We do a lot of legal structuring, we do a lot of insurance structuring, we do a lot of other types of belt and suspenders like commercial lien filings and whatever jurisdiction. We use personal and corporate guarantees. In other words, we go to great pains and great lengths to make sure that your metal is safe and secure with us.
And and trying to earn you some more of it. So at the end of the year, your hundred ounces of gold could turn into a hundred, four, hundred, five, hundred six ounces of gold.
Murray Sabrin (26:02.739)
So that's one way that people can own gold, earn a a a return on it, by having it deposited either the cash that which was which was which was then used to buy the gold or silver in in their account at monetary metals, and they would earn a r interest. Now would that interest be paid monthly or semi semi annually or annually?
jeff (26:28.125)
It depends on the particular product, but it's it's usually paid monthly. And we have a a client portal just like your bank would where you can check your statement and and check that. But you know, I I understand or I just found out actually that recently you became a customer and I am in in no way trying to have an infomercial for monetary metals. I
Murray Sabrin (26:31.871)
Okay.
Murray Sabrin (26:48.179)
No no no. This this is strictly educational. This is strictly what people what
jeff (26:50.869)
Yes. Yes. I I know you're you're a self interested customer and I'm a self interested employee. So let's let's just be up front.
Murray Sabrin (26:58.889)
Well, the the the point is the theme of the show is improving your health, improving your wealth to pursue your happiness and getting a return that people are comfortable with using some portion of their portfolio, whether it's 1%, 2%, 3%. That's something they have to decide with their financial advisor if they have one, or do their due diligence by going to Monetary Metals website. And the the website is Jeff.
jeff (27:28.937)
It's just monetary hyphenmetals dot com and and and we we absolutely counsel people not to
Murray Sabrin (27:31.646)
Okay.
jeff (27:37.28)
invest necessarily you know beyond a certain percentage of the gold they do hold and oftentimes that may only be five or ten percent of their total portfolio. It just depends. So you know, we are not trying to to high pressure people in any sense. And also with with respect to our our bond products, those are actually for accredited investors only like a lot of other investments.
Murray Sabrin (28:00.338)
And from what I saw on your website, there is a lot of frequently asked questions about how the the company came into existence, how it works in terms of being a customer or client of monetary metals. So there's a lot of information for individuals that want to see exactly how the are you the only company in the in the country doing this, by the way?
jeff (28:23.213)
There are a few companies, not in the US, but there are a few companies globally who do a little bit of what we do. They do it on a smaller scale. Now, big banks, you know, like JP Morgan and Deutsche Bank and others used to be more involved in in the the precious metals industry before the Basel III regulations went into effect for
big banks. And so the accounting treatment of metals lending and leasing changed. And so it became less attractive to them. So that was part of I think what opened this up to to to Keith's idea. And
For people who don't know Keith Wiener, there's like a lot of your listeners have probably heard you talk about the Austrian school and Austrian economics. Well, within that school, there are strands and sex and internecing conflicts, and as you would expect. So Keith actually comes out of a branch of that school through a a gentleman who's no longer with us, a Hungarian economist named Antel Fechthi. And he had some of his own
views on all kinds of things within Austrian pedagogy. He had some differences with Mises. He had some huge areas of agreement with Ludwig von Mises, but he was very interested in how you can s you can finance or circulate commercial paper to to basically fund
projects of 30, 60, 90 day window, like we think of as trade finance for a shipment of coal from one country to another. And can that be done without expanding the money supply? And so he was very sort of in in in the circles arguing about things like free banking and full reserve banking and all that. So Keith is a is a really smart guy who comes out of that school of thought.
Murray Sabrin (30:08.327)
Right, right.
Murray Sabrin (30:27.911)
Interesting. just just to finish up here, if someone becomes a a a client or a customer buying a a a go a a gold account or a silver account, what type of interest can they expect or d d can they expect to have during the course of a year?
jeff (30:45.611)
It really depends. We have leases which pay more and less, and that can be dependent on jurisdiction or risk or other factors. I mean anywhere in the neighborhood of three to four percent. which I I would argue it's a very different market than let's say the the money market for cash. In in other words, it it's based on supply and demand of physical metal. So in that sense.
Murray Sabrin (31:12.351)
Mm.
jeff (31:15.305)
I think we like to argue that it's not really comparable to interest rate setting in in regular commercial banking or at the Fed level or the Fed funds rate of the overnight, you know, LIBOR or an anything like that, that it's it's a market unto itself. and so I I do think that the that given the scarcity of physical metals lending and leasing, that there's more demand than
supply right now. So I do think there's upward pressure on those rates. And I think that that we'll be that our customers will benefit from that over the next couple of years. But we we're not trying to compete with you know double div digit interest rate products necessarily.
Murray Sabrin (32:02.803)
Right, right. there there seems to be, again, just from reading the financial press and various publications online and newsletters I subscribe to, it looks like there is a very systematic
move away from the dollar into the precious metals by central banks. Is that is that some of the information that you're getting in the research that your company does? Because if that's the case, because I just saw a chart showing that the Chinese central bank has s substantially reduced their holding of US Treasury bills or US Treasury securities and increased dramatically their holding of gold. So does this portend that we could see
A continued shift away from the dollar.
jeff (32:55.093)
Well sure. I mean there's been a lot of talk the last few years about de-dollarization and the BRICS. You know, they're their sort of petro based currency never really got off the ground. And you have to look at each country's treasury or central bank separately. I think a a country like China
has a certain amount of strength just through their size and the size of their economy and their population. And so I think they might be buying gold and dumping US treasuries for a very different reason than let's say the Turkish central bank is is dumping treasuries and buying gold, right? They have very different circumstances. But I do think o overall
Central bankers have no more of a crystal ball than than you and I have, or we'd be out in, you know, buying tomorrow's, I don't know, tomorrow's NVIDIA or whatever. but that, you know, so I think that they just don't necessarily have a better idea of what to do with their cash. But nonetheless, the fact that they're buying gold, again, I think goes to my point that gold has a moneyness element, that those central bankers see it as
Murray Sabrin (33:48.319)
Mm-hmm.
jeff (34:11.497)
an inflation hedger or store value relative to other things they could buy with it. And let's not forget, I mean there are central banks that openly buy stocks. This the Swiss central bank, for example, as part of their charter now, openly just participates. They they bought a ton of FANG stocks. so we've always sort of thought that our own Fed would love to do that. And you mentioned Trump earlier and getting the federal government involved in equity markets. Well how about
about getting the US central bank involved in equity markets. And I do think that there are central bankers who believe that the Fed ought to be you know, buying corporate debt or buying US equities. But let's let's God forbid we don't need them. And in yet another we're rigging yet another game. But no, I think I think central bank gold buying
is going to increase as the world gets crazier. No no doubt about it. And and again, it's not because they're brilliant and they know something we don't know. It's just because they don't have a better idea. And that and that goes back to gold's moneyness. Nobody seems to have a better idea. You think, my gosh, it's just this metal. It's just in the ground. Why does it have any value? Why indeed? Well, because the market assigns it value. And so I almost think of gold like the wheel or fire.
or other things that you know, human human ingenuity came up with, but you know, we still use the wheel after all these thousands of years. Your Tesla still rolls around on wheels. We haven't come up with a a a a better I guess we have you know treads now like on farm equipment, but but for the most part we still use wheels. We s we still use fire to to in in coal.
it in coal plants to to bring you electricity. We still have a spark and a and a a a combustion f firing happening in in, you know, combustion engines. I mean some things seem very, very timeless and I I think gold's one of them.
Murray Sabrin (36:22.257)
That's that's terrific. we'll see how this unfolds over the next several years because there are some people, including myself, think that we're gonna have some sort of financial factor or crisis, or call it what you will, in the next decade, because the finances of the federal government are really in deep trouble. The fact that we're close to forty trillion dollars in national debt, which was gonna happen in the next few weeks and a couple of months, just shows you how to whack.
finances are of the United States government. In the meantime, the Federal Reserve continues to print money and create new money and we're seeing asset values increase not only here but around the world. Jeff, I want to thank you for being a guest. If people want to do a much more detailed examination of what monetary metals does, where do they go again?
jeff (37:12.797)
our website is monetary hyphenmetals.com, and they can follow us on Twitter or follow me on Twitter at Jeff Dice, all one word.
Murray Sabrin (37:21.097)
That's terrific, Jeff. we're gonna have you back again to get a get an update as things unfold in the monetary arena and the financial arena, because as the Chinese saying goes, may you live in interesting times, and these are certainly interesting times. So thank you for taking the time to be with us and discuss gold, money, the the the evolution of of monetary metals and how it could help people protect some of their
wealth through your your services at monetary metals thank you everyone for listening to health wealth and the pursuit of happiness i'm Maurice Saber and until next time keep questioning conventional wisdom keep pursuing truth and keep striving for a healthier freer and prosperous life and next week we'll have another wonderful guest talking about the law and what the law should be so you can pursue your happiness in these difficult times. So until next time have a safe week.