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The Smoke Trail, hosted by Smoke Wallin, is a journey into awakening consciousness, weaving authentic stories and deep discussions with inspiring guests to unlock high performance and perfect health. Each episode delves into spirituality, leadership, and transformation, offering tools to transcend trauma and find your bliss along the way. It’s a reflective space for achieving peak potential and inner peace in a distraction-filled world.
Smoke (00:00)
My guest is Ron Perry: West Point grad, combat veteran, Inc. 5000 entrepreneur, a man who spent thirty years behind walls he built in his mind. Now he builds castles for others.
Smoke (00:10)
Ron Perry, welcome to the Smoke Trail.
Ron Perry (00:13)
It is absolute pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.
Smoke (00:17)
super excited. We we had a great conversation last month and I was like, we should have recorded this. So we're gonna try we're gonna try to replicate some of that discussion here. I'm I'm not at home. I normally record from my backyard in Sedona, and but I had some meetings down here in Scottsdale. So I'm on the rooftop of of a Scottsdale hotel and still got my outside vibe, but
Ron Perry (00:41)
I love it.
Smoke (00:44)
Well hopefully no one will come on on and bother us up here. But anyway, welcome welcome to the to the podcast. And you've got such a an awesome inspiring story and lots of lots of topics we can that touch on what we cover here in the smoke trail. And you know, I I think maybe if we if you don't mind, we could just start with like a little your background story and you know, kinda how you got to where you are today. But you know, I know you you
w you you've you had a lot of adventures and served in the military and went to West Point and a whole bunch of incredible experiences and then you came to a realization that like things weren't working. So maybe just start with like all right, had you're a seventeen year old kid, you I think you enlisted to start with and then you went to officer training school, but like what what brought you to the military? What got you into that and then what was your experience?
Ron Perry (01:36)
Sure. Yeah, I'm from the Midwest, southern Illinois. Had the typical childhood, spent the whole time outside drinking from garden hoses and playing with friends and all that. and you know, as friends do, we talk with each other, we brag and compare and we didn't have money growing up and
still below where everyone else was. And one thing that I could talk about and get credit for was my dad's military service. So I would brag on the fact that my dad was a Vietnam veteran. He's got these medals and
And he's he's spent four and a half years in Vietnam and everybody else was so impressed. They wanted to hear more, but my dad would never share stories with me to share with him. So I kinda had this weird sensation at like when I'm like seven years old that I want to join the military one day. And so that one day my kids can brag about their dad and have this advantage over the playground. So it's it's this mentality that developed way early that I was gonna go to the military without
much actual thought about what that would do. And so I and my my dad told me that if I keep my grades up I could get into West Point. And so I didn't really know what that place was, but I looked on a map and saw that it was I used that little thread on an atlas back then and saw that and measured it out. It was like nine hundred and eighty-six road miles away from home and I thought that was a good place to go for a while. And so I I applied and
By the grace of God, I got accepted and then then figured out what it was. And that was quite the quite the painful undertaking to be there and unprepared for what happened next. so I I went in with this un without expectations as to what it was, but with this burning desire to just please my father, to have my dad be proud of me, follow his footsteps. That was my guide, my guiding principle.
Ron Perry (03:26)
And I it was absolute trauma when I got there. I later learned in life that I I'm an empath and I'm highly sensitive and I was just always kind and giving to everyone around me and I could it was in tune to how people felt and I was able to to bring comfort to them. And when your entire world and is yelling and trauma and everyone else around you is traumatized
not only do you start collecting that own pain, you start collecting the pain of everyone around you and it became incredibly overwhelming. And the incom and on top of that, I had like the very the beginning of basic training phase, you had like one ten minute call home during your basic training, one ten minute call home a week and
during that time instead of getting filled back up with love with my family, I'm I'm hearing that everything back home is just tragedy. Like like my mom spent Mother's Day in a battered wife shelter and their parents are getting divorced and their my each one of my siblings is going through their own trauma. And so here I am coming to a phone call with trauma of my own and then just getting more put on top of me. And it took this breaking point and it was like it was
towards the the the beginning of second semester where I just felt like I can't do this anymore. This place isn't for me. I I I don't wanna do this. It's too much. Like this is not my nature. And so I called home and told mom and that I like I hope you're sitting down 'cause I don't wanna do this anymore. And
Dad was still around and so she said, Talk to your dad. He put he came on the phone. I told him this isn't for me. I can't handle this. I'm failing my classes. I I I don't want to be here. This isn't me. And he gave me what I later learned was tough love, but didn't feel like it in the moment. And he said, What are you gonna quit crying and grow up and be a man? And it just sucked the wind out of me. And it was not what I was expecting to hear from him. And
Ron Perry (05:18)
it just like gut punched me and I call that my Private Pyle moment from, like, Full Metal Jacket where I just became angry with that moment and just and I said, Well I'm gonna show you kinda attitude kicked in where I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this for me and I'm gonna care about how what how it affects anyone else and the only way I'm gonna survive this experience is if I just close myself off emotionally and just stop feeling.
and stopped caring. So I I made that choice. I walked out of there angry. Had that s singular tunnel vision that I'm going to do what's best for me. I'm not I don't care about anyone else around me. And that became part of me through all the way through the rest of my experience at West Point. It carried on into throughout my time in the military and on and
And all the way until you know like a successful entrepreneur that is now you know you know made the Inc. 5000 five years in a row and on the outside has everything together and is a genuine, loving, caring person. But in the inside I have no
concept of who I am, what brings me joy, no sense of purpose, and my best was never good enough. And all I'm filled with is negative thoughts all the time. And that if I could just not be alive and just I'm not gonna kill myself, but if I couldn't be alive, if I could just fall asleep and never wake up, that would be an ideal outcome for me.
Smoke (06:46)
So that was really your your survival mechanism was to shut off that empathic nature that you had and basically be like, Okay, I'm I'm not gonna let it bother me. I'm just gonna it's just gonna be a shell around me. Yeah. Yeah. and and that worked. You know, it it you you you survived, you know,
Ron Perry (07:02)
Yeah, exactly right.
Smoke (07:12)
West Point, you went on and served. You served in combat. You you were, you know, I don't know ex exactly history, you can share if you want, but you did all that and you did that with that outer shell kind of protecting yourself. You jumped into the business the real estate business and development and started building things. And I think you you share with me, you're like, you didn't know anything about business and you jumped in with, you know, like and then all of a sudden it just took off.
Ron Perry (07:38)
Right. Yeah, it it's it's I when I get asked the question like how did you achieve all that you achieved and I I just say I failed a lot. I I didn't set this course for myself.
It it's when you start locking away your core self, I realize that you still grow with trauma but you can no longer get that signal through these impenetrable walls you put up and so when you send that message back to your core self and it doesn't resonate, you can't really, you know, grow with purpose or intention. So like it just turned into disaster. Like after like in the military, like I it would just I ended up in a war zone, had a wife leave me while I'm in a war zone and then
months later find out I have twins on the way and that when you realize that your entire goal before this was to win the number one husband T shirt and the and the the world's greatest dad coffee mug, and now neither one of those is on the table and neither one of those is your choice, then it
Like it it's heartbreaking and and having that sensation while you're deployed downrange, y you don't really you're really not seeking to be alive again and it just manifested from there. So I got out of the army after my fifteen month deployment to Baghdad. moved to the Saint Louis area to be a part time dad to see my kids when I could. But the whole time it's just trauma upon trauma where
thinking about I only get to see my kids four days a month and I'm just the other twenty six days are unbearable at the same time my entire support group is falling apart and there's nothing coming back in and I'm at literally holding everyone up. Like the stress was so terrible that in 2009, like I call that my worst year, even though it wasn't the year I was in a war zone and all this other stuff happening. Like the the pain and the trauma was so much that it started manifesting in my right eye.
Ron Perry (09:29)
And I slowly and painfully went blind to my right eye where it just felt like it was sandpaper under the eyelid. And the only way I could get to sleep at night was to drink myself to sleep. So I get laid off because you know on when you're in construction and an owner's representation and half the market goes away as it did in 09, then you don't have a job. You the stress from that costs your vision, which means you can't pay house payments anymore. So I end up defaulting on my loan.
losing my home, losing vision in my right eye and losing all will and purpose, but then getting to the place where I had that sort of a that that low, the ultimate low, which kinda made me feel like I gotta start doing something here. I gotta pick myself up a little bit and
Smoke (10:07)
Yeah.
Ron Perry (10:15)
started getting you know top therapy to an extent and then getting put on SSRIs by the by the Veterans Administration and getting to a place where I could just exist without being trapped by the by all the pressure and everything else and then it's continued on like like I I went through a headhunter who found a job that does this work where you travel, you know, three hundred days a year and you're home every other weekend.
And that was my visitation with my kids at the time and so I didn't want to be in St. Louis. This was a source of my trauma. So I went on the road, traveled the country for project to project, not feeling connection or or joy from it, but at the same time building a reputation that allowed that w eventually had my client talk me into starting my own company that then grew and became successful. And at the whole time, like it wasn't something I set for myself. It was the byproduct of
letting everything else happen to me and ending up in this moment.
Smoke (11:12)
Yeah. What one of the things you wrote in in our preparation is that you wrote how much of a per of the person we believe ourselves to actually
it to d how much of of the person we believe ourselves to be is actually true and how much is a story we learn to tell ourselves? And you know, what story were you telling yourself back then? Like what what you know, what was the narrative going on in your mind?
Ron Perry (11:39)
It was it was a lot of of self hate, a lot of anger, a lot of frustration with my situation, that that that there was nothing for me. I'm just different. That lack of connection, a lack of empathy, a lack of feeling joy in my heart was just who I was and
my best will never be good enough and no matter what I do, there's always something I could have done more. So it's these self limiting thoughts that even when I would do something kind for someone else and they would say thank you or or show appreciation, I wouldn't allow that back in. I I couldn't allow that back in. I learned when you start walling off negative feelings, you start you also wall off everything else that comes along with it, including love. So I'm running in this love deficit this whole time and not seeing it, but
Those are some of the many ne negative stories about myself.
Smoke (12:22)
Yeah, and and my my I've come to understand, you know, going through my process, which totally different circumstances, but I feel like a very parallel process to what you did. you know, when we when we shut off the experience of the moment, which is the trauma that we're experiencing, and and we we wall ourself off like that, you kind of guard your heart, that energy doesn't go away, it gets stored.
And it gets stuck inside our body. I I call it emotional energy hairballs. But you know, lots of lots of people have different re you know ways of thinking about it. But these are like these are like the core wounds that are stuck inside ourselves. And they're gonna keep coming up because they're part of your energetic self. Like they're gonna keep you're gonna keep it re-experiencing opportunities to process that emotion through additional experiences. So it's like our our
Ron Perry (12:55)
Mm.
Smoke (13:18)
energetic body is projecting our experience based on this trauma that is distorting our our our you know energetic flow. Does that make sense? Like so yeah so so what I found is like I kept reliving ex experiences that were similar to the trauma I had as a child in my business experience and with betrayal and picking the wrong partners and lack of trust and all these things that like were part of my like core wound.
Ron Perry (13:28)
Absolutely.
Smoke (13:50)
And I kept experiencing them in these new circumstances, even though I was like successful and like on the outside it looked like, well, like, you know, he's doing all this great stuff. But I was experiencing the same but, you know, just evolved trauma that I wasn't able to process at the time.
Ron Perry (14:08)
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's how I felt. It
I came to this realization that, you know, that there's the the the me that is lives up here in my brain doesn't exist anywhere else in the world and that who I am is how I show up to those that see me and perceive me and hear me and witness me and every single one of them has a completely different understanding as to who I am, I have a completely different feeling as to who I am and the this part of me that lives in my brain, it it dies off when I die off. It it it doesn't affect the world to become
known to everyone. it's and when you can kind of sit with that for a while and and r it it it just it just starts to feel different. It you can start to make sense of it and start to parse it apart and and start separating the stories and the truth to an extent.
Smoke (14:54)
So so let's let's talk about that. You know, you you so you kind of I don't want to say stumble, but you kind of just backed into the business, it took off. All of a sudden you've got material success, you've got a booming business, you've got, you know, things are like there's a lot of things going right in your world, but you still had this, you know, this trauma that you had not sorted through. And and so what what what brought you to kind of the
the point of recognition of this that you had a process that like, you know, w was there a specific event, or was there it was it, you know, part of a treatment that you you you were able to experience that then allowed you to see this from a different context?
Ron Perry (15:45)
Sure. two things kinda kinda put me on this path. One is, you know, I've I've never done drugs in my entire life up through like into my forties and then I'm finally because I you know, through of the military and then through job work testing and whatnot, and I finally got this place where I I don't have that as r as an obligation anymore. So I tried cannabis for the first time and then I distinctly remember I was I was
And St. Augustine and my wife and we had just had a a a gummy and we were walking to dinner and we passed this homeless these two homeless people on the side of the road, a young couple. I didn't even pay attention to them, just noticed them and kept about my business. Went to the restaurant, edible kicked in, had the time of my life, and then on the way back I saw them again, but I saw them differently. And I saw them as humans. And I saw them as someone I could connect with, and we talked and we had a long conversation. I got to know them a little bit.
see their journey, hear their story, and I felt connected. And I sat back with that afterwards and said, wow, did I just did I just feel empathy or connection? I was like, this is something, something's here. So I kind of like just had that was that little that little moment that said maybe there is there is something else. Maybe there is a way out here. And fast forward a couple of years later I'm working with my CEO coach, Jay Reed and
He's listening, me now I'm sharing these types of stories about, you know, disconnection and whatnot. And he told me about this treatment called ibogaine that these veterans are receiving down in Mexico that's really changing people's lives. And I thought, yeah, no, that's thanks for sharing. But you know, I looked into it a little bit and like that's pretty intense. That's from everything I read, like this is no joke. And I didn't think that was for me. I didn't think I was there that I'm that
I'm just a little oversensitive or what it may be. But it wasn't until another one my friends from West Point had committed suicide in November of twenty twenty two, a guy that had it all figured out. You know, he was on the outside working at a college and wife and kids and doing well for himself and still couldn't battle, take on that that trauma anymore and ended his life.
Ron Perry (17:50)
And that's when I decided that I'm gonna take one for the team here because I I'm tired of you know going to burying friends. And so so I decided at that time I'm gonna go give this a shot. And if if this works like it's supposed to, then I am going to become an advocate and I'll share this as wherever I can. So
I did. I w I I signed up and Easter weekend of twenty twenty three. I I took a trip down to Mexico and experienced ibogaine and had a a quite the profound experience a as part of that.
Smoke (18:25)
Yeah, so maybe maybe share what you'd like to share about it, but you know, you went into it kind of not ex not necessarily expecting much, not knowing what to expect exactly, right? But it it, you know, you go into that experience. I haven't done ibogaine or done other psychedelics, but it allows you to kind of step away from the ego you of who you are, right? And kind of observe things innate.
from a little bit of a distance. Is that would that be accurate or or how would you describe your experience? Yeah. Yeah.
Ron Perry (18:56)
That would be an understatement. That would be an understatement. And it's truly a a really hard experience to communicate effectively. I'm gonna do my best though. So my understanding was that this medicine is so powerful.
That you can that you need to prepare for it for a month in advance. That is, you know, clean eating, like only single ingredient foods, come off all medication that you can, you know, daily setting intentions, meditating and praying to find out what is it you truly intend to get from this experience, and also that you can ask this medicine questions and you will receive answers from the medicine.
So I over the course of a month I wrote down what I everything that came to mind and I came up with eight questions, I'm sorry, eight intentions and twenty-seven questions, and I had all eight intentions met and looking the other day I counted I'm at twenty-six of twenty-seven answers. Twenty-four came instantly in that in that setting. And it essentially there was my life before the medicine and there was my life after the medicine.
Ron Perry (19:53)
So yeah, one of the intentions like Yeah, like intentions like what is my purpose? Like how did how did my my dad see me who passed ten years ago? Like 'cause he never really talked and shared emotion. Like how did he see me? You know, questions like that and that, what is my purpose? And I received answers to all of them.
Smoke (19:53)
Yeah, that's incredibly powerful.
Ron Perry (20:12)
And it was not just like hearing getting like a a a like a a answer popping into your brain, but as I'm laying there, so we're in a bed, like like there's like five there's four other guys in this room and it's like in this mansion and somewhere in Mexico that has like five queen size mattresses sprawled across the floor, scattered around, and one person on each and a couple attendants there to make sure that we'll be okay. And I'm laying there with a blindfold on, the noise canceling headphones, playing the the music of the
Smoke (20:13)
Yeah.
Ron Perry (20:40)
the tribal music from the Bwiti tribe from Gabon, Africa where the merit where the medicine originates. And then at about an hour in, everything just changed and changed significantly. And shortly after I was having what they call a 10 hour a waking dream, which I was awake but able to interact with what appeared to be a dream. In my case it was
Like the it's sorta like the the the was it the Pixar movie Inside Out where now I'm entered into the control room of my brain. But instead of being in the control room of as like it's inside my brain, I'm like it's showing me familiar rooms. It always reset to a room that I had spent time of my life in. So like the first time I noticed that the medicine was working, I'm with my blindfold on. I could see through the blindfold and instead of having two mattresses across from me where these other two Delta Force guys were sleeping.
I now see a couch there. And so I'm like just kind of sitting up on my mattress the best of my can. I was like, why is there a couch there now? And I look in closer and I realize it's my childhood family room. And it's from and there's two people on that couch. And one of them is my two-year-old self sitting there. And the other one is my
my dad kicked back with his shoulder resting on the armrest and I zooms in on his face and I could see the look of love in his eyes as he was looking down at his son and it filled me in a way that nothing that he did on this earth ever did that I felt did. And so it just kind of started there. Like this this memory is now I'm inside of it. Like my bed is there. I am in the memory it is happening right in front of me. And
For the course of the rest of the 10 hours, that room would change from different, you know, like I said, like from a family room to a like the living room I had lived in while I was in the army or or different f phases of life. And but sometimes the memory would just show up. There was always like this flat screen TV that would just kind of hover above me and just play something that what the mind wanted me to see, or the memory itself would replay next to me depending on the severity of it.
Ron Perry (22:45)
Like the opening scene was I'm laying there in bed looking up at this elevator shaft above my bed. And there's like different levels of this elevator shaft up with doors on each of the four sides, and they were continuously opening and closing, and these men dressed like butlers were pushing out these giant cases into the room around us. And one by one, we went through all these cases and unpacked a lot of baggage.
Smoke (23:07)
That's amazing. yeah, I mean, I I I I can relate. And it's it's hard to describe in normal language because you're experiencing it and you're no you're knowing things about the scene that is like you just know. Right? Like you felt the love of your dad, you you saw you as a baby, you saw like how much he loved you. And and it but it's like a visceral knowing, right? It's like a like
Ron Perry (23:09)
Right.
Ron Perry (23:35)
Yes.
Smoke (23:36)
that's what that was.
Ron Perry (23:44)
Yes. Like all the neural pathways that I had b had my brain had formed at that point were gone. I was now seeing the entirety of my experience, what was left of it, and I'm now drawing new conclusions from all the data, not just the ones that I could access tr just before this experience.
Smoke (24:04)
Yeah. It's it's it's really incredible. So that you came out you came out of that, you went through all these experiences and you know, you could share whatever you'd like, but I mean you you left there and you're like, Okay, I now have a totally different context for my life or my perspective. But it isn't like you go there and everything's magic and you're just you're cured, but it gave you a different lens, right?
And so how did you how what like what did that drive you to do? Like how did because you you've obviously integrated what you learned? which is which is a really important thing, right? Like so we we have these experiences, they're magical, they're they can be extremely powerful, but then it's what we do with that experience. And do we revert back to our normal like routine and pop back into the thing? It's easy to do that, or do we
Ron Perry (24:25)
Yes.
Ron Perry (24:34)
Right.
Ron Perry (24:37)
Absolutely.
Smoke (24:53)
Like what are the how did it change you?
Ron Perry (25:03)
Sure. let me let me explain it by example. one of the whether early on in the process I'm seeing like early on in the in the vision, I'm seeing all these childhood memories pop up and I'm I'm connecting with each one and I'm feeling, that's a part of me that I've been missing. I haven't seen that in a while. I'm I'm kind, I'm a loving person, and I'm hugging myself and I'm holding myself and I'm feeling more connected with self until this memory drifts right above the bed.
And it's like on a like a f again, like a screen hovering above me. And it's maybe like eight feet wide and five, six feet tall. And it's replaying a memory from my childhood of myself and the my siblings, but I can't see the detail it. It's like blurred out, but I can see motion was happening in it. So I asked the medicine, why can't I see this? And then so as soon as the words entered into my thoughts, the the screen turned sideways and it was flat.
this flat image and on the back side I saw this black tar-like oily substance interacting with the back of this image and pulling out the pixels, the pulling out each individual color from this memory, draining it of its essence. And it was sort of like that, you know, end of a of a mystery movie where all of the thoughts just kind of like land at once. And now I realized, my God, that's alcohol. And then it took me backwards and thinking, wow, so
If I this memory is being blurred by alcohol, how much have I destroyed? Because I've just right before this, I'm showing the very clear how valuable all of my memories that we hold of the positive ones are. And now I'm seeing that I destroyed this one. And then I start to realize, my God, I drank a half a bottle of bourbon every night for as long as I can remember or more. How much have I destroyed? And then it broke my heart, and I'm now weeping and
Like in the bed, just curled up in the fetal position, just bawling my eyes out, thinking about all the destruction that I caused in my life. As I'm laying there processing this, the next feeling that came was anger. And I got mad at myself. And I thought, why in the hell would I do this to myself? Like, why am I a piece of garbage? I'm right. I am all these terrible things. Why would I do this to myself? And as soon as I had that thought,
Ron Perry (27:18)
I look to my left and in the room with me, that's like in my, you know, th the construct of the room that is, I now see the first time, like playing out beside me the memory of me picking up a bottle of alcohol to drink to to to numb myself to pain for the first time in my life.
Where it now became a tool. Not only did I see that moment play out for me where I pick up the bottle and start drinking it, but the medicine allowed me to feel what I felt in that moment and associate the the facts of what the you know the linear facts, the five W's and the age with the dis the emotion of the decision, which we often separate ourselves from when we replay our past. And now I felt the pain that I was in.
I felt the pain of coming home from a war zone, you know, wife left, kids gone, I'm in an empty house, and now I've got to put my life together and figure out how to go about doing this life that I don't want do anymore. And I was able to look at myself and say, I love you. I forgive you. You didn't know what this was going to lead to in the destruction, and it's not your fault. You just wanted to persevere and I get that and I love you. And it's okay. And I forgave the moment.
Smoke (27:58)
Yeah.
Ron Perry (28:29)
And then from that point I decide, you know, like I see like what like what the pain was, why I picked up the bottle. I s also now could see that I didn't know what the outcomes were, that I see the consequences of the actions, and now I can consciously decide I don't want to drink anymore. And to this day I don't. Like I I'll raise a glass in celebration, but never drink alone and never for any reason the nurse pain it it reshaped everything. And so from that point forward, no drinking and
Not only that, but the medicine gives you the three week, like then the neuro j the neural plasticity goes on for about three weeks. So any form of addiction you have is broken and you are now allowed to chart a new clean path forward. And and seeing the consequences of actions, forgiving, making finding love for self and moving forward was transformational in that moment.
Smoke (29:19)
Yeah, I I I had you know, I shared with you but very similar experience. So like, you know, saw and it was like had this battle, internal battle during a a plant medicine ceremony that was was about the drinking and I had this severe pain in my lower abdomen for probably an hour or so, like I was just shaking and in pain and it was like this energy. And one of the one of my friends who was with us, you know, kind of
came over and just held me for like an hour. This guy the guy I didn't know at the time, now, now a good friend, but he just held me. He's like, just energy, just let it process, let it process. And then it it wasn't until I was like, so no more alcohol. And then it was like it went away. Like in that moment. But I was able to see that same numbing experience, that same exact thing that try to
Ron Perry (29:59)
Right.
Smoke (30:15)
solve for the trauma that I couldn't deal with. It was like i it just I mean I'm just I'm relating 'cause I I I know exactly what you you went through in my own lens.
Ron Perry (30:29)
What what a powerful experience. And a great s great story too. And it's it's just it it's such a testament to like what we what can be when we like start opening our minds and allowing, you know, real answers and solutions to come forward and it's it's such a gift. It's such a gift to have this experience 'cause therapy wasn't going to get me there. The SSRIs I was gone was certainly was never going to get me there. I just stopped taking them after a while and
but having just truth. And that's kinda like what I took away. I so I right, you're I had to spend like the the journey itself was just awareness. Like for the next the day after the medicine you take it at like at nine PM, you're up all night. About seven AM I'm coming out of the where I can actually stand again and
spent the whole rest of the then that following day just feeling every emotion known to man from just holding myself and feeling love and compassion to being angry for choices I've made to being to just feeling all the things that I haven't been able to feel. But it took years. So I'm like three and a half say I've integrated for three and a half years now and I still think of that experience every single day and what I can take from it and what I can learn from it.
to keep moving forward, but it's it comes down to two simple things that it's it's truth, like separating all these negative thoughts that we have and actually turning them into a truth and then making a choice related to the truth that gets us and moves us in the direction that we need to go towards purpose.
Smoke (31:53)
Yeah, and and I think y you framed it in an interesting way, but or I mean I'll I'll I'll a I'll s put it in a question, like from what I you know, you pivot the pivot question from what I can accomplish or acquire to what is my life putting into the world? You know, when did that, you know, that flip happen for you? Because you you you also went on and and had this you know, incredible vision of building castles, right? So like talk a little bit about that experience and how it
Ron Perry (32:17)
Yes. Yeah, this is exciting.
Smoke (32:21)
Yeah, how you translated that into your your Dharma, your your real world ex you know, activity.
Ron Perry (32:25)
Sure. So after you know a few hours of the medicine showing me what I needed to do and guiding me through unpacking all of these cases and literally showing me the cases opening and the and after I processed what it needed to show me and empty onto the floor, I kind of started to realize that I'm in charge of this experience, that I can ask that I'm gonna start asking questions. So I remembered a little bit of the training going into this. So I asked the question, what is my purpose?
And I heard a voice say clearly and distinctly to build castles. And I thought, well, that's interesting. Like I'm in construction, but I don't think people are living in castles anymore, so I don't understand how this could be a purpose. And so I asked so I was thinking this through, and so like I don't get it. And so after that thought cleared my mind, the scenery set and it always started so in this case it was
all of the l these large stones just drifted into the room and built this castle wall at the foot of the bed and just impossibly high through the ceiling and put a giant neon sign that said build castles. And I was like, wow, this is really cool. Also I don't get it. Like I I mean I I maybe a little dense, but you know, like you gotta be a little clear here, vision. And and so I said I don't get I thought that I don't get it one more time. And then the scene reset this one final time and now
Smoke (33:32)
Yeah.
Ron Perry (33:43)
it's like zooming out. I'm the I can see the back of my head and the scene just expands and now I'm I see myself standing next to my my wife and then it's extends beyond extends beyond that and now I see my grown children and their spouses. My kids aren't married so this is you know something new. I see their children and I see this that we're standing there on the edge of this beach that's being set up for some kind of ceremony. And I turn around and look behind me.
And I see that there's this massive sand dune that is in front of me now. A stone path to the top, and at the top of this sand dune is this huge castle. Like it's just glorious and it's just there. So I in my mind I followed the path up the stairs, opened the castle and door, and instead of seeing, you know, what you would expect to find in a castle, like tapestries and you know, and
furniture and all the other things, I saw that every single individual component of the castle, like every wall component, every floor stone or every piece of furniture, every single item was made up of an individual act of love that I put into the world.
Smoke (34:52)
Yeah, I love that.
Ron Perry (34:55)
I saw the sum of all the love I'd ever put into the world all at once. And I'm standing and dwelling amongst it. And it was just absolutely contrary to everything I thought about myself, that I'm not good enough, that my best was never gonna be good enough. I don't provide any value. Nobody loves me and nobody would care if I was dead. And here I'm standing in this place, seeing all of the love I put into the world, and it just
took gut in me just seeing this and then being aware that how blind I was to this. So I sat with this. Like every day for years I had to like meditate on this. Like what does this mean? Like what does it mean? My purpose is to build castles. What does this mean? Okay, so my castle is here. It showed me a castle made out of love. And so my took that well my my purpose is to be love. And love is a sacrifice of one's time, talent or treasure for the good of someone else in the exchange of allowing love to flow back your way.
Smoke (35:25)
Yeah.
Ron Perry (35:48)
But then I thought about this and kept meditating for years and I was built castles. So now I've kind of taken that as my message to to show how I I was lost I was in my own thoughts, how the medicine showed me to untangle that, to forgive past selves, to let go of harm, to forgive others who have hurt me, to l to for my own benefit, to free myself that I can spend my time giving love openly and deeply to others, which is in exchange for joy coming back my direction.
And then how allowing other people to see theirs and encourage them to build theirs. So that's became my mission now.
Smoke (36:20)
That's beautiful. I I wanna say that again. love or purpose in your words is found in what we willingly give our time, talent, and treasure and benefit for others.
Ron Perry (36:30)
Yeah. Yeah. It's like this idea of like like if I ask you like what would like at the end of your life, what feeling would you want to feel the most? And nearly everyone's going to say, I want this feeling of fulfillment, right? Like I want to feel like I did my best, that I did what I was supposed to do, and I want to feel that I have no regrets and I put my put everything I needed to in the world. I got out of it what I wanted from it. This feeling of fulfillment. I found that that ful feeling of fulfillment comes from immense joy.
And the immense joy comes from acts of sacrifice. Not how much money you get, not what you accomplish, not how many likes you get on your social media. None of that matters.
It's the free giving of your love to someone else, to the betterment of someone else, and seeing how that impacts them and changes them for the better is that feeling of love, that feeling of joy that comes back that way. That's my that's my crack now. That's what I'm addicted to is putting out as much love so that I'm allowed to feel this joy come back. And it's this it's and it's if you think about it, it's from doing less than doing more.
Smoke (37:24)
Yeah.
Ron Perry (37:38)
and less stress, less anxiety on fear and self, more sacrifice into what I call like one of my core values is being recklessly kind, to not worry about how your act of kindness is going to affect someone else, but instead do it anyway, because when you do it anyway, it's gonna come back ten times over. And it's just the most beautiful thing to watch when you surrender into it and it comes back your way.
Smoke (38:03)
Yeah, that I mean you're you are describing the human journey, what we're here for. you know, my my my understanding is realization of what you just described is why we're here.
Ron Perry (38:07)
Yeah.
Ron Perry (38:19)
Absolutely. One hundred percent. It's crystal clear to me now.
Smoke (38:20)
Yeah, it's beautiful. so now you're you're giving, you're being in kindness, being love, using your time, talent, treasure to do things for others to help spread the word. I think you you you mentioned you got to s attend some kind of hearing on ibogaine, you know, they're making some progress on availability and what how people can get it. What did you go to a meeting last week about that?
Ron Perry (38:47)
Yeah, so it was a private town hall event that I can't really get into all the details about because it's still it's got it's a scheduled item and it's still, you know, considered illegal. I had to go to Mexico to heal myself. And when we're thinking about resending veterans to Mexico to heal trauma, courtesy of the US military, that's kind of its own little thing. So but there's there's enough there's enough
stories like mine out there where people are truly getting their lives back and getting clarity, especially with opioid addiction and whatnot. So this was a meeting of individuals that are are committed to the cause, that are looking to the next phase, that are working with state legislatures to allow testing, to start the process of allowing these plant-based medicines to be used into a a treatment to truly give someone a fighting chance at life.
when I was tangled in my negative thoughts and I only ate on negative thoughts, all I wanted was to be gone and be dead. Like I could not see my way up and it just was this continuous downward spiral until you have no fewer options but you know taking your own life and then there's just so many people and I collect that empath part of me it connects deeply with the individuals that are stuck in this place. So part of this is like how do we come together as a community from lurking all the different parts because like one is just the
medicine itself. How do we go about getting it legalized? How do we go about getting supply? Because this is coming from Gabon Africa. It's from a a plant that has to grow for eight years to achieve enough fruition where the it can be pulled up and the root can be consumed to like the integration phase. Like you can do this medicine and not if you don't have integration or you intentionally go into it seeking something better.
you can't really expect something better other than a three-week reprieve from who you were. But if you don't put the policy the put the new practice in place, choose something different, then you'll end up back where back where you started. But this time it's gonna be a little harder because you now you know that it's not you.
Ron Perry (40:39)
and that it's it's part of this mess that you're just stuck in. So how do we go about integrating? Because it's it's not a a a a short-term process. This it's it's an invitation to go inward to unpack all the stories you've told yourself that have separated you from joy one by one individually.
It's a process. You get to continuously go through. So all these individuals came together and talked about how can we move the ball forward. And I left there feeling completely inspired by those that have given, made the sacrifice, that are essentially putting themselves on the line, putting their careers on the line to advocate for something that let's be honest, there are people, there are industries that do not want this to be successful because it's a threat to, you know, whatever. So
Smoke (41:21)
for sure.
Ron Perry (41:25)
Yeah, so it was inspirational to see, to be in a room where everybody was there for the right reasons. Not to make money, not to profit, or see what's best for me, but to genuinely, truly be sacrificial in their love to others, to help others out of where they're stuck. And it there's just no better feeling.
Smoke (41:41)
It it reminds me of Matthew, you know, for what a man profited if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul.
Ron Perry (42:02)
man, I was just thinking about that like earlier this week. It's what a meditation that one is. And it kind of like it's I how I feel too. It's you know, I think of Maslow's hierarchy of need quite a bit. And you know, he wrote from you know what your basic needs and towards the end of his first iteration he was talking about, you know, self-actualization and finding out who you are.
Smoke (42:03)
Yeah.
Ron Perry (42:13)
and getting to that place where now you have your legacy and everything else building around you. But ultimately like he added one later on is it's called self-transcendence, where it's not where you realize it's not even about you anymore. It's not what's best for you. It's like knowing who you are and your purpose and then sharing that purpose openly for the good of everyone else around you. And what a feeling it is to be in that place. So I part of this thing where I just trying to create this build castles program.
Smoke (42:39)
Yeah.
Ron Perry (42:50)
I can show people like using Maslow's hierarchy. If you're here and you're if you're trying to get to this level and you don't have security in your finances here, that's always that's going to be a weight that you're carrying as you try to move up all these pieces. So let's come up with a plan to take each one of those out one at a time so that you get to the place you need with enough capacity to do the things that you that you're being called to do.
Smoke (43:05)
I I love his map and and I think it's I it's it's it's a such a great reference point. It it's it's really a version of a map of consciousness, right? And so and you know, he he he's probably more familiar than most people. I I I turn to David Hawkins and his map of consciousness, but it's it's the s it's talking about the same things. It's your basic needs, getting above the animalistic, mechanicalistic, mechanistic responses to your circumstances, and then being able to kind of separate from that.
Ron Perry (43:13)
Absolutely.
Smoke (43:34)
I I'm reminded of like the stoic you know, I love the stoics a lot and men are disturbed not by things, but by the views which they take of things, right? So this is all about changing your context. Not changing your circumstances, but changing your context of whatever the circumstances are there changes everything.
Ron Perry (44:01)
Hm. Yeah, it's it's clear. Like I I'm gonna use one more an analogy or one more vision that I received during the ibogaine thing. So to to kinda hit that point home. So one of the things I saw early in the in the journey was there was a mirror that appeared on the wall. And so like I desired to see what was inside of it. So I looked into the mirror and I saw my own mental image reflected back at me. So all my f my I was
I was my features I was like a leper. I w there was nothing symmetrical about my facial features. I was a hideous, wretched creature to look at and to see myself look like that broke my heart.
But later, after all of this healing and showing me the truth and separating the stories, towards the end of this vision, the mirror appeared again. And this time I saw it. I looked into it and I saw my actual self-reflected back. And for the first time in 30 plus years, I felt love of self as I looked at myself and I looked at myself and I felt God's presence. I felt God's creation here. And as I'm sitting there looking in this mirror, feeling love for myself, the image of Jesus comes out.
of me and is now in the mirror looking back at me and he gives me this look and he just all he does is he just shrugs his shoulders and puts a little smile on his face and says now you get it. This is how I see
Smoke (45:13)
That's beautiful. I love that.
Ron Perry (45:20)
It's like and it's like everything I need is like that, just like to see there's one of the one of the intentions I had is like how does God see me? And here I am. He's just showing me in a mirror what how he sees me. And it was everything. So yeah, it's the same me, different perception.
Smoke (45:33)
Yeah, I mean I I use the the framing of the Johari window. Are you familiar with that? Have you heard that? Yeah. So I mean it's such a it's a perfect model for consciousness, right? And they use it for coaching and other things. But it's the, you know, what do we know? What do we know and other people know about us? What do we know and no one else knows about us? And those are the kind of known quadrants. And then it then we get into what do other people know about me that we don't that I'm not aware of? And then the the deep.
Ron Perry (45:38)
Mm-hmm. All very familiar with Johari, though.
Smoke (46:02)
Subconscious, unconscious, karmic box is what do I not know and what others don't know? Right. And and it's this whole journey is about bringing that unknown, those unknown quadrants into your known, your known experience. That's the context of looking at these stories differently. And then being able to just, that's what that was. And you're not stuck in the story, you're seeing the story and what you experienced and
what came out of that. And, you know, and look, you don't we don't grow as humans without experiencing separation and trauma. Like these are the things that, you know, like it or not, Ron, you doesn't matter whether you believe this or not, we set these things up. Like we we planned our curriculum in Earth School to experience certain things so that we could have this insight that you have, so that you could see Jesus in the mirror.
Ron Perry (47:00)
Yeah. No, it's yeah, I I had some faulty programming early and often and then and again all the critical things that I had thoughts of myself that were critical, like we were addressed each one of those in the form of another session of, you know, going through and seeing it replay and finding the truth and then opening the case and watching that that that the story I told myself leave me. And you know, there was plenty of discovery in that bottom right quadrant of the Johari window where
things no one knew about me things I do not know about myself and a lot of that was through not necessarily in the moment of the medicine but came through significant like sessions trying to learn more that came from as part of integration like there were doors inside the medicine so like inside this room there was always doors appearing where I could open them and either go through and unpack what was inside there and and and get rid of it or I could go but sometimes I'd turn the handle and there would be doors that I could not open because I wasn't ready
to open those doors but in subsequent journeys and and you sitting with psilocybin or you know sitting in a meditative state I was able to come to these realizations and open some of those doors that if had opened during that time would have ruined everything and changed the entire perspective the experience like things like not being not processing the grief of like not getting to raise my kids and that kind of stuff.
Smoke (48:15)
That I I think that's a really great point that you know someone who's sitting here in the audience listening to the story saying, Wow, that sounds amazing, like but I'm afraid. And what if I can't handle what I what's the doors that are open? And the the cool thing is your higher self spirit knows what you can handle. And you know, you're not gonna get everything revealed all at once if you're not ready to handle it. And so
like like your description of like some of these doors couldn't open at that first session, but then you were able to go back to it. That's what I've experienced the same thing where you only get what you can process at that time. You know, it'll push you to right to the limit of like what you can handle, process it, integrate it, keep coming back to it. And then you you can circle back around to the same experience from a different lens and see it another way. And and it it it's I I find it
to be a continuous process. It's never stopping. It doesn't mean you're stuck dwelling on the same story over and over again. That's not what this is. It's it's like a spiral and you come back to it, but you're at a different level when you get back to it.
Ron Perry (49:29)
Mm. It's beautifully said. Yeah, and just because you did the work doesn't mean you're gonna start making you you just stop making new stories about yourself and it's and it's it's just yeah.
Smoke (50:02)
Yeah, and there there's there's a hygiene component to this too, which is, you know, we talk about the deep trauma and the healing process, which you you describe beautifully. But there's a, you know, we're still living in this human realm. And so we're experiencing little micro separations, little, you know, ego things that are inserting themselves into our day, even if we're in a great place, it still can happen. And so there's a hygiene component that is about cleansing yourself every day.
of whatever experiences you had and not storing that stuff. So you don't build it up to this giant thing where you've got to go do a retreat in Mexico to with medicine. You can actually clear this stuff ongoing. And it it's like a hygiene practice, like brushing your teeth, but it's energetically.
Ron Perry (50:23)
A hundred percent. And it's it's I mean I've seen this now and I see it as like I know where I want to go. Like I see my purpose and I see it before me. And as I s you know, get in my my runner's block and I get ready to start to take off to move towards that direction, I also feel the weight of everything I'm carrying at that moment. That's slowing me down, forcing me to inaction, saying that this needs attention. And if you and it's if we're not going through and do the hygienic component a component of unpacking.
all of this stuff that's just still carrying the things that are occupying our thought and if I ask you a question like like what is holding you back from being your best self and you think well I got this issue with my mom I haven't resolved and all these other things and most of those are coming from stories we tell ourselves and if we can just take each one of those and turn it into a question is like is this true or is this a story and then start unpacking it and then turning it into either a truth or into an action step to get to truth then we're still going to stay there stuck with this weight carrying it and holding it back when we
unpack it. It's that feeling of, you know, like it's common. It's like I feel unburdened now. Yeah, I feel weightless. It's these moments that we heal. And that's it's literally letting go of everything holding you back so that you can move forward.
Smoke (51:35)
Yeah, no, it's it it's so beautifully said. And and I love the story you told me about when you got really engaged as a officer at EO and you had the bus and you did the tour and you went around to see everybody. And you were talking about that in terms of building castles too. Like can you can you share a little of that and and like how how you think about that? 'Cause I I feel like your your whole expression of where you are and how you can help people is just beginning.
Ron Perry (52:02)
Yeah, so like one of the stories I tell myself is that I'm a I'm an introvert and that I don't enjoy meeting people or talking because when you start engaging with someone like I I can no longer engage in persona to persona, it's just exhausting. It's like what you know, Carl Jung talks about, you know, you know
to self-individuation in the process of but getting back into it's exhausting. But going through an entrepreneur community and then getting there and listening and asking questions to what people are struggling with and having the authenticity come back has led to some real deep and meaningful connections that's helped guide me forward. It's helped me to learn more about myself as part of this that I have the ability like it's I have a overactive nervous system where if someone is in pain, instead of feeling sorry for them that they're in pain, I feel the pain they're care.
So if I can see them identify with them, then I can actually help them move towards a place to letting go of that weight, seeing it themselves and then getting out of that space. So that's kind of led this. So I got this place where I was traveling all over the East Coast, dropped all the way to New York City in a 36 foot bus and having conversations with folks. That's got me back down to here to this place where
I I now feel more confident in myself that I could go and engage in these stories and and have conversations with folks that I I just created the the Mr. V Mr. Vulnerable d persona where I just feel like if I can go there and and anytime as you know, like you sh show up to a conversation and you start sharing, like saying I'm not okay and this is the things I'm struggling with, it gives everybody else in that conversation permission to follow along and then you really get into meaningful conversations.
So that experience was definitely a wake-up, allowing me to to start engaging more meaningful conversations and helping others get out of their way. So this whole vision of building castles has turned into this Mr. Vulnerable approach where I I speak to groups, veterans groups, speak to entrepreneurs and speak to others to try to to help them see the castle that they have in front of them that they may not even witness for themselves, but help them get out of their own way and start moving towards it and building on it.
Smoke (53:53)
Yeah, it's it's beautiful. well that and that's that's one of the reasons I wanted you on the the smoke trail is is is we're sharing the stories that can be helpful to people. And you know, you you you need to be out there telling the story. You need to be out there explaining what you experienced and and you're doing it and you're doing it right now with me. So it's a beautiful thing.
Ron Perry (54:13)
I appreciate it. It's it's like I I had this prayer last night where I I was just sitting in this. It's like why am I like I was thinking about a book, you know, and I have been thinking about this book for a long time. I can't make myself do it. So I started separating the truth from the stories and it came down to like I don't want the consequences of if this does become successful because that's gonna be a massive demo manned on my time. It's going to me, me, me. And I realize all these thoughts are about me.
Smoke (54:35)
Yeah.
Ron Perry (54:38)
but not about what is for the greater good. So it's about self, not being selfless. And so this is a step in that direction. And I I truly appreciate the chance to be here sharing the story with you and seeing where this goes because I can see your castle, Smoke. It's absolutely beautiful. I I know that I hope you can see it too. And the the help and healing that you're providing to others, it's it's just it's like it's exquisite. So kudos to you for that.
Smoke (55:14)
Well w we're on the journey together, brother. And so if people want to get in touch with you or support building castles or the you know, the the other the the work that's evolving around your mission, what's the best is there a website or is there like a you know, a a place where people can go look at things or is that coming?
Ron Perry (55:32)
Yes, it's up. It's mrvulnerable.com. That's mrvulnerable.com. it's a place where you can contact me. I had I I I go from anywhere from you know being on a stage and sharing the story with others to like, hey, I your story resonated with me and I would like to know more about this experience and this is what I'm struggling with to one on one.
And like none of this for profit, a hundred percent of this is selfless and then I'm not taking any money from anything that I do. And I just want people to be well because when you feel and live in a place where everyone around you is suffering, the only way to heal that is to heal those around you. And if I'm able to do so and and continue to do so, then well what better purpose is can you w can one have than that?
Smoke (56:11)
Yeah, it's beautiful. Well, you you've got a fan here. I'm sure the audience will appreciate this conversation. And this will be the first of hopefully many. I'd love to keep the cut the dialogue going because we barely scratched the surface on some of this stuff, but I think we got we got to a good point where you know, I think the message is is out there. if you're feeling down or you're feeling like you're unsure of next steps, you know, just take a step.
you know, take a step and and there's lots of resources. you know, Ron, you know, I I I got I get people coming to me all the time now with issues that I like I used to they would never come to me, but now I'm safe because in my healing, I'm able to hold space for their healing. And we are the medicine for each other. And, you know, Ron, you're medicine for a whole bunch of people.
Ron Perry (57:07)
Well, wouldn't that be lovely? Wouldn't that be lovely just to ev even if one person's better, this is all worth it. So I'm just grateful to to God to to have this as a purpose and to to do his will.
Smoke (57:17)
Blessings to you, my friend, and I look forward to continuing our discussion.
Ron Perry (57:23)
All right, God bless you, Smoke. Thanks you again. This is amazing. Thank you.