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Fascinating conversations with founders, leaders, and experts about product management, artificial intelligence (AI), user experience design, technology, and how we can create the best product experiences for users and our businesses.
Kyle Evans (00:01.24)
All right, welcome back to another episode of Product by Design. I am Kyle, and this week we have another great guest with us, RJ. RJ, welcome to the show.
RJ Kedziora (00:11.081)
Thank you, Kyle. Thank you for having me today. Looking forward to it.
Kyle Evans (00:14.22)
Yeah, looking forward to it as well. Let me do a brief introduction for you and then we can let you tell us a little bit more about yourself. But RJ is the co-founder of Estenda, a leading company specializing in custom software and data analysis for healthcare and medical companies. So I know that there's a lot more to talk about, but why don't you tell us a little bit more about yourself before we do?
RJ Kedziora (00:37.801)
Yeah, absolutely. I got started many a year ago. It's scary to say I realized last year was my 30th anniversary of college graduation. So been around for a while. I got lucky at an early age, too. I was interested in technology, computers. I went to school for computer science. Interestingly, I almost got a PhD in artificial intelligence back in the 90s.
But instead of doing that, I got a job offer and it was like, actually go out and make a living or take on a lot more debt. And I went out and made a living, but always was able to keep my hand in technology and AI related fields and stuff like that over the years. And, know, it's one of those things that people forget AI has been around for quite a while, going back to, you know, forties and fifties even. But I've always been fascinated with what technology can do.
And my parents bought me an IBM PC Jr. way back when. And I played my fair share games. I had the Atari too. Don't get me wrong. But yeah, just fascinated with the power of technology and how it can make a difference in solving problems. And that's what I love today. So through the 90s, I worked through various different corporations, consulting companies in the early 2000s.
I started my own company with a good friend, Drew Lewis, called Astendo Solutions and professional services focused on custom software development, data and AI in the healthcare space. So we really got our start with a congressional grant for the development of a diabetes disease management solution of military healthcare. So we were working with like Walter Reed Army Medical Center and the Boston VA, some of the premier
institutions in the area of healthcare. So fascinating early journey to be part of that and know fast forward 22 years later we're still going strong, solving problems, trying to make a difference in the world.
Kyle Evans (02:47.406)
sounds incredible and I'm excited to talk more about that because I think there's so much to touch on with that specifically and some of the other things that you're working on. But before we do, what else do you like to do outside of work and outside of the office?
RJ Kedziora (03:02.729)
I laugh because of what I'm about to say. I and race for triathlons. A big passion of mine. I was on a podcast six months or so ago and the host essentially had a stopwatch because she knew this was in my background. She's like, how long is it going to take them to mention this? And it came up naturally in the conversation. But that definitely is a big part of my life. And that actually led to
one of the bigger outside of work projects I'm working on now in writing my first book. And it's called Productive Harmony is the working title, but it's how to use and focus on energy management instead of time management. Interestingly, time management's an artifact of the 20th century. And there's this guy, Frederick Taylor, who came up with sort of the godfather of it in the early 1900s, started this process of
really fine-tuned scientific approach to management time. He got fired in that first job because it wasn't improving productivity, which was just fascinating. was like, everyone's like, time management, this is the way to do things. And then it sort of gets lost to history. He got fired because it wasn't working out. But yeah, fast forward 100 plus years, we're still talking about time management. And it's really about energy management. I experienced that in training in triathlons, but just
everyday life, you know, as you get up in the morning and you need to be productive and you know, I'm a morning person, you know, so there is this idea of prototypes where, you you're morning person, evening person, most people are somewhere in the middle, but from a morning person perspective, I should be focusing on things that need a lot of thinking and thought process through lunchtime. It's more, you know, things slow down.
look at email, things that don't need a lot of attention, a lot of focus. And then in the evening, it's around creativity, which my wife doesn't like because then it's like, to eat dinner. I'm like, wait, I just got this great creative burst. I gotta get this down, I gotta get this down. She's like, no, I'm hungry, we gotta eat. So yeah, I'm midway through that journey and anticipating the book coming out sometime in the fall. So that's a whole nother.
RJ Kedziora (05:28.539)
and as my wife says, you need to take some of your own advice and not do too many things all of the time. So, trying that out for once.
Kyle Evans (05:38.626)
Yeah, I'm interested in that. Just to touch on it a little bit more, what have you found to be the most interesting takeaway as you're kind of looking into this book and studying time management versus energy management? As maybe like a little teaser, what is one or two or a few of the most important key things that you've found that may be different than the way we think about it?
RJ Kedziora (06:04.465)
Yeah, at the very highest level, sleep, nutrition and movement matter significantly. So getting seven hours plus of sleep, know, eating well and moving. And am very cautious of using movement as a word and not exercise. Because I know and realize my, you know, regimen is much higher than the average person. That's not necessary. You don't need to go out and run a 5K. It's going for a walk.
is good. even as you are working on a project and get stuck, it's a brilliant move to just get up and go walk outside for 10 minutes, sort of reset. And the key to that is the reset. Don't go walk outside and think about the problem. Don't go outside and have a phone call about something related to work. Like separate from it. And that's where you're getting that mental break from what you're doing so that you can come back to it.
Other big ideas are really which I even discovered as part of writing the book and This fascinated me as I did it for myself You know you sit here and I don't know about you, but I have my cell phone sitting next to me, okay? That is a distraction even if you are not Actively using it that is a distraction so I've gotten in the habit of putting it into the next room and So then it is out of mind and that made
Such a significant difference. It was sort of amazing to me when I was in this. I mean, OK, I've got to really buckle down and write the next chapter in the book. Not having that in the room, not having that draw of like, what am I missing, the idea of phone number. I turn off all notifications. So I don't even have that. But it's still like, what's going on on Instagram? What's going on in X? So just getting that out of there are two huge, huge points.
Kyle Evans (08:00.482)
I love that advice. One, find that taking a walk, especially a midday walk for me, it is such a great reset. And the second being, I find myself, and I've noticed this happening more and more, that I will just subconsciously, without thinking, reach for my phone at various times. I'll be doing something and then stop for a second, and I just find myself reaching for it. I'm like, no, that...
Now is not the time, but it just becomes such a habit that all the time, if there's a pause, it's just reached down for the phone. And like, no, that's not what I should be doing. I need to, and I love the idea of just getting it out. Don't have it in pocket or on the desk. Cause then it's just so easy to reach for it when you, that may not be the thing that you want to do.
Great. And we've had a couple triathletes that I've talked to, and I'd to ask the question, is there a part of the triathlon that you like the most and the least?
RJ Kedziora (09:03.561)
I, the biggest thing for me in triathlon is the mental challenge. So there obviously is a strong physical components and endurance of, of, you know, swim, bike, run, but it's really about that mental challenge of doing that. And I say I race triathlon because, know, and there's nothing wrong with people go out there to just do it and compete. That is a significant physical accomplishment to just go out there and complete a five K. It doesn't have to be a triathlon.
to 5k, that is a significant accomplishment. But I'm out there, it's it's particularly if I'm paying to do one of these triathlons, I want to go out there and see, how hard can I push? How fast can I push? And that mental aspect is even getting up, you know, at 430 this morning, going to the gym, because it's like 10 degrees outside where I live, not quite safe enough to run outside. So, you know, I'm off at the gym and you're running the treadmill and jumping the pool and swim. There's that mental...
challenge to that and the resiliency to go through that has been huge as part of it. So yes, that is definitely the part I love about it. If I had to pick one, it's probably swimming, not hugely into swimming. Interestingly, I didn't grow up swimming, but in so I was, know, adult onset learning swimmer. I wasn't very great. I was back at the pack at the time. This was years ago, my 10 year old who was on a swim team.
was learning how to competitively swim helped coach me. And she just loved that fact because it was like, dad, go do this, give me 10 laps, and then come find me on deck. Little Miss Bossy worked perfectly for her. But now I can finish in the top third. I'm not winning any swim races, but I went from the bottom of the pack to the top third through a lot of her training and my own improvements over the years. But it made a big difference. Who does that?
Kyle Evans (10:59.278)
That's great. I love that. All right. Well, I want to dive into some of the things that you mentioned initially as you were kind of giving us a little brief overview and some of the things that you're working on. But as we do that, I would love to hear a little bit more about your journey, how you got started into entrepreneurship in general. Right now, you're the co-founder and COO. And you've also done this before. So what kind of set you on the path?
of entrepreneurship.
RJ Kedziora (11:30.877)
Yeah, I actually created a second company years ago and we shut that down. Unfortunately, our race and capital just didn't really take off. Software related, also started like a baking company prior to that, that had like a two year run kind of thing before we shut that down. like baking, does that have to do with anything? One, it was part of like the triathlon racing and needing to.
maintain calories out when I was running and stuff like that. It's like, instead of buying all the stuff that's out there, it's like, okay, what can I create for myself? And then having young kids at home, it's like, this is just fun. So it did go off and do that, but baking is very scientific. It's like when you're cooking, there's a lot of leeway. It's like, add a little more salt, a little more pepper. with baking, you can mess it up pretty quickly if you don't follow a recipe and formulas and ratios. So that's why the baking. But it's the...
The idea of one, the entrepreneur of solving problems and in being my own boss, which is interesting because I still do have bosses, my clients are my bosses. You don't completely get away from the idea of having a boss, but I do have a lot more control and influence obviously, know, of where we're going, what we're doing. And healthcare was just that idea of like, okay, I can solve problems, but.
Kyle Evans (12:37.614)
Thank
RJ Kedziora (12:54.203)
And I've created the inventory systems, I've created accounting systems and a railroad car scheduling system, which was a fascinating, fascinating challenge to get the railroad cars to where they needed to be. But yeah, important, but not very meaningful. Healthcare, there is definitely that aspect of giving back and making a difference in the world. And it's like I as an individual can now help build software for companies that are then, you know, deploying this and selling this to
thousands if not millions of people are being deployed to health systems, helping lots of people. So in my small little way, it can make a much bigger impact.
Kyle Evans (13:34.318)
Yeah, that's great. As you've gone through and founded your current company and some others, what have you found to be some of the most important factors in doing that to lead to success?
RJ Kedziora (13:49.115)
You think of two things, one, a clear sense of purpose. What are you trying to accomplish? What is your goal? And hopefully that aligns with the market dynamics and market forces that are out there. And it's beautiful when those two things come together. And if you're really pushing the boundaries, the edges, you might have to really figure out what that market fit is.
and change and adapt, but that clear sense of a purpose, what are you trying to accomplish? And second, I would say a strong support structure. If you are in a relationship, if you have a family, friends, colleagues, extended support network, who's going to support you in that effort? Because it's interesting as I'm writing this book on productive harmony, that becomes really difficult.
when you're in the throes of being a startup, you do need to put in long hours. So it's finding that harmonious relationship with the other people in your world and recognize that, okay, this is what we need to focus on now. And I've been lucky to have a very supportive wife and children as part of my journey. know, did, again, you know, not to talk about triathlon, but I did an Ironman triathlon years ago and it was like the whole family was invested in it, you know, from.
that entrepreneur perspective, it's like, okay, you're going to start a business. This is the focus. I'm not going to be there as much as I was before this kind of thing. So you do need that strong support structure and understanding.
Kyle Evans (15:22.542)
Yeah, I think that those are some great points on not just the building of a business or a startup, but also other areas that may be very similar in life. So I want to touch a little bit on healthcare and the things that you're focused on right now. What do you see as you're working with what you're doing right now? How does...
AI play into that? And what do you see as maybe some of the biggest challenges right now within the healthcare industry?
RJ Kedziora (16:03.113)
How much time do have? So from an AI perspective, I split it into sort of two grand categories. One, there's, I think of it more as old school, the forgotten machine learning AI, which still very much has a focus on the world. And you see that a lot in image analysis or image processing.
Kyle Evans (16:04.3)
Hahaha
RJ Kedziora (16:26.759)
So if I take an image of the retina of your eye, this is one of the projects we've been involved with for 20 plus years now, is the detection of diabetic retinopathy. And there's a camera that takes a photo of the retina of your eye, which is the back of your eye. And diabetic retinopathy is one of the leading causes of preventable blindness. So if we find it, then it is very treatable. typically a human looks at those images.
But we don't need a human to do that. We can use the power of AI, computer and technology to look at those images. And you first think about a go, no go sort of decision of like, there is incidence of disease here where there's not kind of thing. Okay, so let's triage all of these, you know, the 90 % or whatever that we're looking at today have no incidence. Okay, you're done. Nobody had to look at this.
then the others that do have incidents, have somebody look at it. And okay, in terms of retinopathy, then you grade it in terms of severity to then figure out which patients that you want to help first. But the computers can also do that. The AI can do that. The interesting part about these algorithms is they're very specifically trained on the type of image that you are using. So as the technology improves,
over time, those original AI algorithms aren't going to work as well, if at all, anymore because that image looks differently. And the same thing just happens when you go from institution to institution in terms of data and what information is available in the MR. One institution could code a patient encounter differently than another. So an AI that's trained at the first place isn't necessarily going to work at the second.
And even if you look at like populations, you know, if you're an inner city population, I live just outside of Philadelphia, that inner city population in Philadelphia is going to look different than Southern California. And so the AI algorithm that was trained and learned on one population, you need to test it in your local population to make, make sure it works. The FDA commissioner has literally said like the use of AI.
RJ Kedziora (18:50.821)
in healthcare needs to be a partnership. They don't have the resources, the capacity to test all of these systems to make sure that they are safe and effective. So that is a big use case for AI, but also like a big challenge where AI's then, we fast forward to two years ago now, guess, when generative AI, large language models became a thing. That's quickly becoming
you know, the second sort of big use case. Ambient listening, you so if you use WebEx, GoToMeeting, any of these things, these tools that take notes for you, that's what the ambient listening technology is doing in the doctor's office during the visit. So instead of the physician facing the computer and typing away notes and not paying attention to you as an individual, they're trying to take notes, let the computer do that. Let the AI take those notes.
And so that's a quickly, you know, has become the probably biggest use case of generative AI in healthcare. That patient summaries is another big area where it's being used. The challenge, interestingly, in the risks is that it can hallucinate, it can make up stuff, can make mistakes. What I find interesting, there's this idea in AI of saying,
Okay, we're gonna solve this problem five years from now. Maybe, hopefully, you know, sooner. We're gonna solve this problem. I don't necessarily know that it needs to be a solved problem because human scribes make errors. So to address the idea that physicians, you shouldn't be sitting there typing, should be paying attention, should be interacting with the patient.
know, lot of practices, health systems have human scribes in the room to be able to do that and take notes and everything like that. So great, great use case. Those humans make mistakes too. There are processes in place then to make sure the final output is good. And so let's use those same processes in place on the AI and what it's creating.
RJ Kedziora (21:13.225)
in generating. So now you've saved massive amounts of labor and resources. The system becomes more efficiency and you're using your existing processes. So I think we sort of have to embrace the generative AI where it is today and use the power of what is capable of today, recognizing that it does have challenges and let's put the processes in place. There's a reason.
for the idea of second opinions. If you go to your doctor and get a, know, it's like, that's a serious, let me go get a second opinion. Humans aren't right all the time. So let's embrace what it's capable of doing and acknowledge the idea that it can make mistakes.
Kyle Evans (21:59.586)
think you've touched on some really fascinating points, especially around a number of them, the model training and how some of these things have to be very, very robust. know as I've been working on a number of projects where we have been training models, AI models on specific sets of data, very, very tailored to an organization.
you don't necessarily get the universality of, this can apply to everybody because it's obviously trained on the way that, you know, we're doing things as a business. And I think that's a fascinating thing because you touched on different populations having different things and different companies and hospitals doing things slightly different and how that impacts how universal, you know, if we made like a retina scan AI evaluation, it's, it,
doesn't necessarily translate immediately to everybody because there's these subtle differences. How do you see that being, one, a challenge, and then how are we overcoming some of those challenges in that example and more broadly of really using technology to augment a lot of the things that we possibly can do and overcoming maybe some of the objections that maybe some people might have about using that instead of
a doctor evaluating it or a doctor typing notes.
RJ Kedziora (23:27.209)
Yeah, it's definitely still a challenge, not a solved problem today. And it's probably even going, in my opinion, in somewhat of the wrong direction. So you're seeing more and more health care systems taking the data they have and packaging it up as a service offering. So I recognize the need for these institutions to make money to stay in business and provide health care. Yes, absolutely essential.
But by firewalling, paywalling that data such that I can't use it to train an algorithm becomes challenging. okay, the numbers that I've seen are cost prohibitive to startups. You have to have significant backing and I won't name any specific institutions, but you need significant backing to then get access to that data to be able to have a variety of information, variety of populations such that you can.
better train a machine learning algorithm. So I think this sort of has to level set and that'll work out over time. A growing concept to take on this challenge is the idea of creating synthetic data. And we've done even before the days of AI, we've been involved in some projects and creating synthetic data just to test the systems that we were developing.
You know, it's, you're developing a system and you're expecting millions of records and sometimes billions of records. You get into performance challenges. So you need to create data that's representative of what you expect. And obviously in healthcare, you know, it's one thing to say, okay, here's a blood glucose trace of a person that we artificially created that, know, you have to apply a lot more science to it, to create something that is realistic. Um, and, and then, you know, as you start.
bringing treatments to that, okay, what does it happen in real life? So you still have to get into like the clinical trials, but yeah, the idea of synthetic data can help overcome some of these challenges.
Kyle Evans (25:31.246)
Right. As I'm continuing on this thought of technology, specifically AI, but other technology that we are using in health care specifically, what do you see as either the best or possibly underhyped things that are happening right now? And where do you see things that you just don't see panning out as much? And there may be a little bit.
like overhyped as far as what it's going to be able to do versus some technology that has real potential for the future.
RJ Kedziora (26:08.841)
I'll go with AI in specifics for both of those answers. I think Gen.AI is still underhyped. Underhyped. A lot of people are like, it overhyped? I think it's still underhyped, even where it is today. And numerous people have now said this, but it's like, as you interact with the various large language models, regardless of which one it is, that's the worst it's ever going to get. It's only going to get better. And what it can do is amazing today.
I use it every day. Overhyped, there's this newer concept of agentic AI, where an AI system is capable of going off and solving problems on its own. We'll get there, but that's definitely overhyped right now of what it's really capable of doing, or the cost of doing that.
chat, GPT, open AI, they're, the biggest sort of the benchmark out there for, for what they can do. They're releasing various different agentic models in case of new reasoning models. And, you know, I pay for the $20 subscription of, know, to get the better service kind of thing. And now there's like a $200 level to get the reasoning model. And that gets prohibited. It'll like cost expensive for me as an individual to use, but.
Fast forward a little bit of time here, it's probably not that long, but fast forward a little bit of time, and if it costs $500 a month or $1,000 a month, that sounds like a lot, but at what point can it replace a person, an individual, and you're not paying a software developer $100,000, $120,000, you're saving significant money then. It's not quite there yet, particularly with the Agenteca ideas.
even as terminology is probably pretty new. That's definitely the overhype category right now. It's just, yeah, you can find some use cases, but it needs to mature a little bit more.
Kyle Evans (28:17.058)
Yeah, it's definitely an exciting area, but I think you're right. It's very, very new. And how much can you employ that sort of technology, like an agent, in order to do the types of things that you would want to do? Like kind of opening up, here's my computer and all my documents. Do this thing for me. Take these spreadsheets and combine them and all of that. It seems like it's a fascinating area, but...
a little ways to go still before you can do that sort of thing.
RJ Kedziora (28:48.073)
Yeah, little ways to go. Like I have, we have like a time tracking system at work and I really like how it operates and it's aging. So it's time for us to explore and look for a new option. And I don't like the way the general time tracking industry has gone where it's like clock in, clock out. Like it's not how we operate. It's like, okay, how many hours a day did I work on, you know, Project X? And it's not that I work from eight.
to 839 and 930, that's just not our model. And so I haven't found one that really worked from that capacity or they're exorbitant in cost perspective, $10, $15 per employee per month to track time. So I'm on this mission to use the various tools that are out there to hands-free, without coding, use the apps and the AIs to create that application.
They're not there yet. I have been fascinatingly surprised by what it's capable of and how just through a natural language interface and talking to it of how it can update the model and the user interface and stuff like that. It's fascinating. But I got stuck the other day. I asked it to add a particular feature to the screen to be able to pick a date. And it's like, OK, done. But it didn't do it.
And then I was like, you didn't do it. And then it just kept responding, we did that already. And I got stuck in a loop and, you know, it was an early vendor. There was no sort of like refresh or go back to previous step or undo. And I was just, I got stuck and it was like, I did that already. You did. So they're early, but it is fascinating where it's going to go. And as a field, software development and programming, it's not going away.
because you still have to know what to ask it and what to tell it to do. It's not going to go off and be like, hey, create me a time management application. What features does it going to, what do I want? What am I going to uniquely add to it? So yeah, software development as profession is not going away anytime soon, nor are doctors.
Kyle Evans (31:05.762)
Yeah, very, very true. As we look at AI generally, I'm interested in your take on how do we use it responsibly, whether it's in healthcare or outside? What are some of the things that we should be thinking about generally? then since you're very much in the healthcare space, what are some of the real considerations there in employing lot of these technologies within that industry?
RJ Kedziora (31:34.121)
It's, I love that question because ethics comes up a lot in AI and I'm not entirely sure why. I have ethics in place. Like when I develop any software application, anything, I'm going to make sure that it's well tested, that it works. It's not causing harm. know, as drug companies develop drugs, as doctors.
know, prescribed medicine, like ethics is a core part of everything we do. And then all of sudden this AI comes along and everyone's like, we need an ethics statement around what we're doing with AI. Like, no, first do no harm. Okay. Let's start there. We all have the ethics and everything like that. So I am fascinated by the idea that we need a new ethics statement for AI. But at same time, I do recognize it is a new
technology has new unique challenges, specifically around the idea that it does make stuff up. It does hallucinate. And we are getting better at figuring that out and overcoming those challenges. But again, people make mistakes all the time. We are not perfect. I was talking to somebody earlier and just the idea of empathy. It's like the computer, when they...
compare AI-generated patient notes to those written by physicians, the computer is generally seen as more empathetic than the physician. Why that specific reason is, that's a whole other topic to explore, but the computer doesn't get tired. So there's one really easy reason why the computer can be more empathetic. As a human, I cannot keep up with the pace of research.
So how do I apply the best medicine to my particular patient's condition? Well, think about that AI that's listening using the ambient listening technology. It knows what's going on with the patient because it has all the patient information. If you start bringing these other things where it's like looking at facial expressions to understand how you feel becomes really powerful. And then it's aware of all the research out there.
RJ Kedziora (33:52.457)
So I think today, if someone were to develop a system like that, then the AI should surface the question to the physician. The physician can make the informed decision, then, to explore that and ask pointed questions to the patient. But that's just it. It's like, how do we use it where it is, understanding that it's not perfect? Well, you and I work with people all the time that aren't perfect. And so it's sort of a change in thought process.
how we use these systems, which is challenging. I recognize that. But yeah, the ethics statement is somewhat perplexing to me.
Kyle Evans (34:34.19)
Yeah. I'm interested in your view, obviously within the healthcare industry, what do you see as some of the biggest problems right now that maybe you're working on or you see others working on? And then what are you most excited about as far as what the future holds within that industry and maybe some of the things that you're addressing as well?
RJ Kedziora (35:00.745)
Yeah, some of the projects and some of the challenges and things I'm really looking forward to the next evolution is that personalization of the medicine. And it's the combination of wearable technology so that we gain more understanding about what's happening within your body, you know, I think, with all of that research and the power of generative AI to make a difference.
It was part of a project 15 years ago when personal health records were just becoming a thing. And it was like, okay, how do we use these personal health records to empower the individual? And the technology just wasn't there. But imagine you're a person with diabetes and you're driving down the road and your blood sugar is starting to go low, which is a dangerous event. You could literally pass out if you're driving a car, you could then crash and die. Tragic, obviously.
Um, if the AI is monitoring your system, you know, it can recognize this. It can have a situational awareness that you're driving. So, you know, potentially even stop the car. But I think today it's like, Hey, you're having a significant medical event. need to eat something. And just around the corner is a Starbucks. You better pull over and go grab something. But if you take it even like the step further of like, Ooh, there's a Starbucks or.
you know, like a healthy food store, you know, or we'll use McDonald's. McDonald's or a health food store, like, okay, go to the health food store. It's like, you know, you can't see it because it's behind McDonald's, but it's there. And yeah, I can tell you that. But then also with that technology can meet you where you are in terms of health literacy. It's like if you're newly diagnosed, you want to present the information differently than
You know, if you had diabetes or any other chronic condition or any condition for 20 years, multiple sclerosis, you know, whether you're new to the disease state, you know, there's a lot more education there. But, you know, if you're living with this for, you know, you've gained more knowledge and understanding and how it impacts you. That conversation changes with the AI.
RJ Kedziora (37:22.385)
And how do you make that really personal? I'm still waiting for it. Like I wear one of the rings that are out there in the market and I track my sleep and it's like, last night you didn't sleep well. Well, if I had a drink the night before, okay, it's cause I had a drink. But then there's nights where I didn't have a drink and I didn't have a great sleep experience. I'm like, well, what was it? And I want that level of specific personal information. Right now it's really, it's generic.
It's like, well, here's the things that could have gone wrong. Well, what was it? Well, as I reflect, the room was just too hot last night. But can the AI tell me that because it's aware of the environment? So yeah, I'm looking forward to that. And maybe it's hyper-personalized information, care treatment algorithms, discussions around eye health. Because there is a bigger challenge in the US. We were talking about challenges before.
sort of focus on the technology and AI side of things. But healthcare, we just have an accountability problem. We have an obesity challenge. We have a mental health crisis in the US, if not the world. And how do we overcome that? We don't have enough doctors, enough people to treat and care for everybody that needs it. The technology scales.
Kyle Evans (38:42.478)
I love that. The idea that we can, again, and we kind of go back to this regularly, like augment what people can do through technology and the fact that we don't have enough doctors. And in another case, a while ago, we were talking about we don't have enough home, like elderly care workers. So that's kind of adjacent, but how can technology start to come in and...
fill in or help fill in some of those gaps so that as we continue to grow in population, we're able to get more attention and not less than we're getting now. And I'm absolutely with you on the personalization. I cannot wait as well. I wear smart devices and I'm able to track sleep and things like that.
I would love for it to analyze, hey, here's the patterns that are causing you not to sleep well. you had elevated stress this day and this day and two weeks ago, and your sleep was not good because of that. And it looks like you may have been sitting and working up until an hour or two before bed. And that may be something that you want to avoid rather than just, like you said, the generic suggestions. How can it really understand us?
and give us personalized either treatment options or personalized medication, that sort of thing. That is a beautiful future.
All right. Well, I want to ask too, again, kind of going more, a little bit more broadly, what advice would you give to somebody who wanted to start a company or is looking to get into this space?
RJ Kedziora (40:33.065)
could say one, it. We need the entrepreneurs out there pushing the boundaries. It's hard for large corporations to truly push the boundaries. Their systems are in place, they're entrenched, it's hard to change. So we need the entrepreneurs to improve the world. I think you have to find the thing that differentiates you. What makes you different? What makes you stand out?
It's interesting as I've gone to some of these healthcare conferences over the last year and Gen I is big there would be Multiple startup vendors sitting next to each other guy and we have ambient listening we can summarize your patient notes I'm like what makes you different than that guy two feet away from you And a lot of people didn't have any answer like you're doing the same thing It'll take me a couple hours to spin up this
So you do have to understand of what that differentiator is and get out there and challenge the world. In healthcare specifically, if you're not familiar with it, you do need to one, have that support network and advice, advisors, and really understand how the system works, because it is convoluted, especially from a payment perspective. As you develop a product, the person who's using it,
the person who's recommending it, the person who's paying for it can be completely different groups. So how are you selling this and getting it into the market is over the years and I advise some startups kind of thing. And they're like, oh yeah, I'm gonna create this app and the doctor's gonna recommend it to the patient and the patient's gonna use it and the insurance company is gonna pay for it. I'm like, yeah, that's rare. Or you'll get one hospital, one physician.
you know, doing that because it's just really challenging. The doctor's got 20 different things going on, let alone being aware of your application. And, you know, it doesn't make a difference. Does the insurance company want to pay for it? Is the patient going to use it? So yeah, you have to understand the very convoluted healthcare system that we have in the U.S. to make sure that you can have an impact.
Kyle Evans (42:48.364)
Yeah, I think that's a great call out. Well, RJ, this has been an amazing conversation. We've touched on a number of, I think, really fascinating topics. I've got a couple of wrap up questions before we finish. But before we do that, where can people find out more about you, about the things that you're working on?
RJ Kedziora (43:06.833)
Yeah, corporate websites, probably the easiest, astenda.com, E-S-T-E-N-D-A, my LinkedIn profile, lots of things. From the book perspective, I actually just ramped up productiveharmony.life in Instagram, productiveharmony. posting, start talking about this journey, starting to get a lot of feedback. You know, we're expecting publication in late fall.
but still as I'm working with my editors, changing, tweaking and stuff like that. And so just lots of stuff to share from, that perspective. So I'll do what people think.
Kyle Evans (43:43.768)
Great. Well, we will put those links in the show notes as well so you can check that out. And we'd like to wrap up with a couple of questions. These do not have to be business, entrepreneur, health care related, but certainly can be. And have you watched or read or listened to anything recently that you found particularly interesting that you'd like to share?
RJ Kedziora (44:05.796)
As I am in the throes of research around this book, there was one that really stand out that was sufficiently different. really liked it. The authors was Dan Pink and it was called When the Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing. had to write that one down so I got the whole thing. But if you search Dan Pink and when, the word when, you will find it. And it is, it's all about aspects of time and decision making. And it's just fascinating. It's a completely different way of
of looking at how you solve problems and when it makes sense to solve particular challenges. Seasons come into play, just all sorts of fascinating things from reading that book. I bought more books than I imagined in last six months and that one really stood out.
Kyle Evans (44:52.416)
Yeah, absolutely. think that's a great one. to say, I don't know where it is on my shelf, but I have that one as well. I think that's a great one. All right. And then are there any products that you are using right now and enjoying that maybe you found particularly useful, either a digital product or a physical product?
RJ Kedziora (45:11.817)
Two things, one, because it's sitting in front of me and it's dry January, at least when we're recording this. Hop water, H-O-P-W-T-R, think it has ashwagandha in it. I experiment with a lot of stuff. My wife often causes them potions. I'm always trying different products, different vitamins, different mineral, different supplements. So, yeah, okay, what does this do? Does it make an impact kind of thing, particularly on my athletic performance?
I have a goal of living to 100 plus with a good quality of life, not just living, but good quality of life. So it's like, okay, what can I do from that perspective? And Hopwater just helps, know, it seems to take the edge off of that. that some others just really haven't had an effect on. And so that's, that's been interesting. The thing I'm really looking forward to, I got over the holidays, but I haven't started playing with it is the Muse headband, M-U-S-E.
And it is a wearable to monitor brain waves, alpha, theta, delta. So like when you trying to go to sleep at night or meditate, you you can use this feedback to be able to get into a deeper meditative sleep, estate or sleep better. So really fascinating to see what, that reveals and how does that tie together with all the different metrics that are available.
Kyle Evans (46:34.434)
Yeah, I have seen that and I find it very intriguing. I have not used it. So I'll be interested to hear how that goes and what you find from it because that again, feels like something that could be very, very beneficial to understand your general state as you're doing different things, especially as you meditate and try and, I guess, center again on things or before you're sleeping as well. Love that.
RJ Kedziora (46:59.272)
Yeah.
Kyle Evans (47:01.218)
Well, Well, RJ, this has been an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for your insight, for everything that you've shared. I think this has just been superb.
RJ Kedziora (47:11.721)
Thank you. I'm glad to be here. a great conversation.
Kyle Evans (47:14.658)
All right, and thank you everyone for listening.