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Shop Talk Her Way is where former shop owner and coach JeanAnn Saint Grace opens up the books on what it really takes to run a profitable, sustainable, and well-balanced auto repair business.
With decades of experience in bookkeeping, operations, and leadership, JeanAnn brings an honest, no-fluff approach to shop management — all from a woman’s perspective. From financial systems and staffing to communication and culture, she shares insights that help shop owners (and especially women in the industry) take control, build better businesses, and enjoy the ride.
Whether you’re turning wrenches, balancing the books, or scaling to your next location, you’ll find encouragement, strategy, and a healthy dose of “you’ve got this” in every episode.
Shop Talk Her Way is an AutoFix Auto Shop Coaching production — helping shops thrive, her way.
Thanks to WorldPac and the WorldPac Training Institute (WTI) for sponsoring Shop Talk Her Way. Visit worldpac.com for the latest in auto parts distribution and wtitraining.com to explore training programs that can take your career to the next level.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:00:00]:
I would advise you to go back to the place that did this work for you and have them double check it because it could possibly be under warranty. There's people that are going to be out there freaking out. You just sent a customer away. Throwing them that bone of you might be able to get this covered under warranty is definitely something that they will appreciate and that might make them think, hey, maybe I should be checking this shop out. This is Shop Talk Her Way with Jean and St. Grace. Do you ever feel like your shop communications sound like a game of telephone? Sometimes that's exactly how it is. This is Jean Ann St Grace with Shop Talk Herway, and I'm so happy to be with you for this week's episode.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:00:46]:
Today, I'd really like to talk about communication and it's communication in the shop and also with your customers. And we can all agree, I think that probably the most times where misunderstandings happen, it's been because there's been some gap in communication both in our personal lives and in business. One misty tale, one little piece of the conversation gets misconstrued and then we have problems. And as always, you know, being in the automotive industry, there are enough challenges coming at us from outside. We need to do our best on the inside to mitigate those challenges and try to get our teams lined up in a way that the possibility for miscommunication is decreased. So also, as always, the conversation comes out of my coaching experiences over the last couple of weeks and they've been centered around communication. I can also tell you that when I've had access to engagement surveys, when where we had anonymous surveys surveying a team on specific internal processes, communication is usually, even if the shop's doing a really great job, communication is the place where the shortfalls are. So specifically within the shop, when we're communicating from the technician to the service advisor and vice versa, this is often a time where details get missed.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:02:29]:
And then also when we're talking to the customer about their concern, we've got that. So the overall framework for shop communications really centers around the three Cs and the three Cs of service advising are concern. So the customer's concern, why are they bringing the vehicle in for repairs or service? The cause, which usually only happens in, you know, a diag or a checkout where we have, you know, what's causing the problem, it's not so much for a service, but the why there? The cause is because it's time. And then the correction is what is our recommendation from our inspection to the to the customer for correction. So we can see how this is. This is like a flow of information. It starts at the customer, it flows through the advisor, it flows down to the technician or towards the technician. It shouldn't be a hierarchy.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:03:30]:
It flows through to the technician, and then that flow is reversed. Once the inspection is complete, it comes back to the tech, to the service advisor, from the tech, and then moves on back to the customer. So we can see already there's multiple flows of information. We're moving from one side of the swing to the next, and there's multiple opportunities for failure within the system. Like I said, a miss detail or a typo or this or that, you know, mishearing something. These are all places where these challenges can take place. So when we start at the front counter, and this actually could start while the customer is making an appointment over the phone. But regardless, it's these initial contacts with the customer that are so important because the advisor needs to share and translate from the customer down towards the technician.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:04:36]:
And so this is where we can't afford for our advisors to not be curious, to not ask what I call the next question, the next logical question. And so I'll use an example. A check engine light comes, is on, and the customer is like, I need to bring my car. And the check engine lights on. The advisor could say, okay, bring it in on Tuesday and we'll take a look at it. If we don't play a little more time or spend a little more time on the phone and play 20 questions with the customer, we might not get the whole story, and it might completely shift how we schedule our day. So the customer says, my check engine lights on. The advisor says, okay, obviously we get your make and model.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:05:32]:
How many bowels are on the vehicle? And then the customer says, or the advisor would say something like, are you having any drivability problems with it? Well, it makes a funny noise. Okay, can you tell me more about the noise? And so we would follow this train of thought to as many details as we can get so that as we're typing up our notes and getting ready to share those with the technician, when the customer comes in, we can start to flesh out, you know, what is the customer's experience. It's running rough. It only does it in the morning or it does it in the afternoon. It only does it after it sits for several, several days. All these things make a big difference. And so let's just take that as an example. If it only makes it after it sits for a couple days, then a Customer driving the vehicle in and it and us taking a look at it when it's hot is not going to give us a clear idea of what's going on.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:06:35]:
So if we find out in the initial conversation it only does it after it sat for several days, then that conversation would look something like, well, Mr. And Mrs. Customer, if it only does it after several it sits for several days, then we probably need to have you drop it off like on a Friday night and let it sit in the shop over the weekend. And we'll try to capture the malfunction when we first start it on Monday morning, if that's enough time for that to happen. But if not, if we don't have that part of the conversation, the customer comes in with the expectation that we're going to check and diagnose this vehicle without seeing it do what it's been doing. Now, is it possible that based on the data that's in the computer system, we could do that? It might. But what if that thing isn't the cause of the check engine light? Then we're not, we're not fixing their concern. We're looking at part of the concern and we're not getting a whole picture.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:07:37]:
So it's very important that we train our advisors to ask questions, to not just take things at face value. As an example, I had a shop who had somebody call and say they all of a sudden have a few drips of oil underneath their vehicle. And it's I. The next question is where, where is the oil seem to be coming from? Oh, well, towards the rear of the engine. When did this start? Oh, a couple days ago. The next logical question for me with that is, have you recently had the oil changed? Right. Because if we've got a few drips of oil, a vehicle that's never dripped oil before, did we go in and get an oil change? And we either got oil residue that's dripping off that didn't get cleaned up from a filter or from a drain plug that didn't get clean or isn't tight or has the wrong gasket or whatever that might be. So in that case, as an advisor, the question next would be, well, Mr.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:08:40]:
And Mrs. Customer, you know, if you'd recently had your oil changed and this leak started right after that, I would advise you to go back to the place that did this work for you and have them double check it because it could possibly be under warranty now. There's people that are going to be out there freaking out. You just sent a customer away. But did we just plant a seed with the customer that instead of us having them having to come to us and us having to charge them for that, they could go back and save money by having the previous shop that worked on it, get it looked at and maybe get it fixed for free? Those are two questions, right? And they, they might say, oh, no, I don't want to go back there, whatever the problem is, you know, we'll just take a look at it and see and we'll go from there. But I'd rather have you guys look at it. That's their choice. But as people, the general public is less and less in touch with how the mechanics of their vehicles work.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:09:43]:
Giving them that, that throwing them that bone of, you might be able to get this covered under warranty is definitely something that, that they will appreciate. And that might make them think, hey, maybe I should be checking this shop out. Or they might say, you know, I called this company and they told me it could be this, and they recommended I, you know, and they saved me some money. Well, that again, is good marketing for whoever might hear that story that we're not here taking people's money. And I'm using rabbit ears, quote unquote, because that's not why most shops are in business, right? We're not here to take advantage. We're here to serve. And that's a level of service. So back to my point of these are the reasons why we ask more questions so that we can meet or exceed the customer's expectations.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:10:37]:
We see the vehicle in the state that it needs to be seen in, and hopefully we can figure out what the customer's concern, what the cause is. And the original three Cs, just as kind of an aside, was complaint, cause and correction. And I don't like the word complaint because we don't want the customer to think that we think they're complaining. And again, I'm using air quotes for those of you who can't see me, because it's not a complaint. There's something wrong with their vehicle. So it's more of a concern. And we should never put our customer in the realm that they're just complaining about something. They actually have a legitimate concern.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:11:24]:
And we don't want to accidentally slip and say, well, tell me your complaint. Right? Like that has a negative connotation and words mean things. And so it's important that we're very clear with our languaging. So this is one place where I would use concern over complaint. So we've got the car there, we've got all the details, we know kind of what direction the technician needs to go in. And as an advisor, we have written up all the details that we think are pertinent. We might even have a few that don't seem pertinent, but the customer said it. So let's just, we've got the information, let's put it in there and, you know, get this ready to give to the technician.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:12:07]:
So however you dispatch your work, whether it's paperless or on a tech worksheet, the next thing is to dispatch it to the best technician prepared and ready to take on this level of diagnostic or checkout. And now we've presented them with a good list of things and a place for them to start. And my opinion, my thinking, if I had shop today, I would be creating additional digital vehicle inspections that are very specific to specific kinds of diagnostics. If we have an electrical diagnostic with a check engine light or an ABS light or a traction control light, then we're going to use this, this electric diagnostic dbi. And then the technician can use this as a checklist for their, their diagnosis. They can also use it as a roadmap. It also becomes a store of information that is forever tied to the invoice. So if we have a vehicle come back six months from now and they have a similar concern, or the check engine lights back on or whatever we diagnosed, we can and have raw data, whether it's screenshots of the scan tool.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:13:32]:
Some of these scan tools even communicate to the cloud. So we've got all those cloud documents attached to this dbi. Then we have this historical record and for the sake of warranty, we can go back and be like, this was the code or this was the situation. We might have the same code and different set of information of data out of the scan tool. It just creates this continuity of information and also this way our technicians don't miss steps. One of the big challenges that I see, and I think this is, you know, across the industry, is that the communication between the technicians and the advisors is incomplete or little details get missed. Now imagine if instead of the battle days when I was writing service and we didn't have all these really nice tools where we could have a repository for this information. The advisor, AKA me, sat and wrote notes and wrote how, you know, what were the readings, what were the codes, what was the temperature of the engine at the time, all that, all that important data.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:14:47]:
Now we can just take a snapshot and attach it to a dbi. So as a writer, I don't have to go in and recreate the wheel sharing all this information. We now have the raw data stored with the work order. So my encouragement is for shop owners or if they want to delegate this to their managers or advisors and their tech teams, like this could be a group project to create some diagnostic DBIs and to have things like a malfunction indicator light, a battery and charging and starting test, testing procedure, a brake inspection, a funny noise inspection, anything that's beyond the scope of the courtesy inspection because of, as I have told you and as I advocate is that your, your initial courtesy inspection/dvi is not a fishing expedition. It is no kind of diagnostic tool. It is simply to report the information that we see and recommend anything that we see off of that dbi. It is not meant to be go off into the weeds and chase a problem we don't have permission or time to chase. So, you know, I'm sure you can think of situations in the shop where it would be nice to have a roadmap for your technicians.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:16:10]:
And this is especially important if maybe you don't have a strong lead tech or you don't have a shop foreman, or you have an advisor who might not be as technically educated as you would like them to be. But now we've got a logical process of steps and a collection of data so that if we do have a problem, we can go back and look at it. And I really think that the amount of time it would take to create these DVIs will far offset by the time it saves technicians from skipping steps, from missing data, from possibly having to cover a warranty process down the road because we didn't have all the data that we could have. And I am a big cover your assets girl. So it's very, very important, especially as intricate as vehicles are, now that we have this level of data, this level of documentation, I just feel like this could save a lot of shop owners a lot of big problems. So take the investment of time, build out some DVIs, work with your team to adjust them or add steps or remove steps as we need to. In the systems where you can add can jobs, do that so that there's less typing or talking to text and they can just click and drop the can notes in that they need. Now, when the flow comes back from the technician, then part of their story is already written for them.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:17:48]:
If these Digital or diagnostic DBIs are set up properly, they might need to make additional notes and put them in as technician findings or whatever, but at least we have raw data that's coalesced in a nice neat package once all the data flows back towards the advisor. And this makes it less likely for there to be any miscommunication. And the contrast to this is a shop where everything is exchanged verbally. And for me personally, if my mind is over here working on one car doing, you know, writing up service for one car and my technician comes in and before I've had a chance to shift my attention and really focus on what they're saying and they just start talking, I may not be ready to take notes. I might not be fully grasping what they're telling me. And that is where there could be a problem in communication. And the customer either doesn't get the whole story or they get half the story, or we lose a lot of the detail in the haste with which we're having this conversation and split attention. So I think there's a lot of thinking that we could put into this and a lot of easy effort that we could go to to make this all work right.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:19:14]:
And so once the advisors got all the information, they're ready to collate this and share it with, with the customer, then they've got all the raw data. There's no question of what the, you know, what, what codes might have been present, what the circumstances were, where those codes took place, what were all the readings, what, what did the testing show? You know, if we have to break out an oscilloscope or a picoscope and we can screenshot waveforms and that kind of stuff, that is, that is information that if it's coalesced in one place becomes very, very valuable. So then we're as an advisor back in the seat writing up additional notes, pulling estimates, building out whatever we need to do in order to share this back with the customer. It gives us another opportunity on top of the DVI we've already done as an inspection to also share the additional data with them and to show them this is the level of testing that we did. And in the day and age in we're in when diagnostic time is, so I'm going to use the word expensive, we need to add value. So before expecting a client to pay for say a level two Diag, and that's two hours of time at $200, that's $400 worth of diagnostics. If we could show them our step by step process and all the data that our techs have gleaned from that to then give them this presentation, again, we're adding value. And in the case of a diag that Might be all they're taking, taking home with them if their car is running fine.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:21:05]:
And the only thing that's happening is the check engine lights on. And we go in and find a damaged wire through the course of our investigation and we fix that wire and the only thing, the only material thing that they have in Exchange for their $400 in Diag is the lights off. So our, our documentation, our story, our process becomes the value. And also, like I said, gives us a roadmap backwards if the problem presents again. And we can be like, okay, well we fixed all of this. We either have a place to start from or we can say this is new ground that we're on and we need to start from scratch. So again, we're back to saving time, making our text more productive, giving the customer value. The value is also in the write up.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:21:58]:
And I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but if we're going into a labor guide and we're pulling a labor description back and it says something like RnR starter and whatever might come after that. Right. Most of the time that is written in the most basic of language that doesn't really tell you anything. Right. And so again, how are we adding value by just showing R and R alternator? Because chances are not only did we replace the alternator, we, we had to remove and replace the belt to do that. In the process, we checked tensioner and idler bearings. We spun everything that's on the front of that engine to make sure it's turning freely. We inspected the belt to make sure it's in good condition.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:22:55]:
And a lot more went on in that job than just slapping quote unquote an alternator on it. Right. We also have to do, after repairs, testing to make sure the alternator output's correct, that it's charging correctly, that everything else is working well. We don't have any noise coming from the belt train. There's, there's more to it than just R and R alternator. And again, I'm using air quotes. So if we can start to build out either canned notes or that's the easiest thing so that you know it's written in the way that you want it written and it has a good description where if certain aspects are not correct for that vehicle, the advisor just has to pull them out. Again for the owner, is this or manager, is this a big investment in time? It is.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:23:51]:
But when you hand a customer a well written, well organized repair order that is written in English that you can understand, this is a different level than going. Just as an example, I have an 86 GMC pickup, and years ago I had to take it in because it had, it was overheating and it was probably the original radiator. They identified that the water pump was also leaking. And so we did. We went through the cooling system, the hoses were fine, we put new belts on it, we did the water pump, we did the radiator, and it was tight, sealed, no more leak, right? If I looked at that paperwork, I wouldn't have been able to tell you what they did. And, and I'm in the industry, right? This was like not very long after we sold the shop and I was not service writing, but it was right there. And so, you know, as a curiosity, I start looking at my paperwork. There's no making heads or tails of this.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:25:05]:
So on top of being in an industry where people are already distrustful, then giving them documentation that they can actually read and understand, even if it has words they don't know, they can go look it up, right? But when it says some crazy thing and all it says is R and R alternator and it's three hours worth of work, is that value? Are we actually telling them what we did? And the care that we put into this vehicle, it doesn't. So when we go back to the advisor, the advisor writes in very clear English, whether they're able to write a story in sentences or hit bullet points. So they just have to go step A, step B, step C, whatever that looks like. Then we, we're sharing more information with the customer and we're giving them value by giving them something they can take with them that they can fully understand. And again, it demystifies the process. We're taking the mystery out of it. But even as a coach now when I look at some work orders and I'm like, I can't even tell you what they did. How does that serve the customer? And I know, I always go to, what if we have to warranty apart or what if we have to go back through a system? We don't know where we were, we don't know where we've been.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:26:30]:
And now the customer's frustrated, our team is frustrated, everybody's frustrated. And the chances of a good outcome are diminishing quickly. Right? So this, this all takes time. And you know, there are programs out there. You know, with the, the rise of AI, there are programs out there. I'm thinking of Detect Auto for one. I'm sure there's others out there, but that's the one that I'm most familiar with where they offer prompts to the advisor based on how the conversation is going. Is that tremendous? It is, but I don't want to have my advisors leaning on that so hard that if the Internet goes down, they can't continue to advise the customer at that level.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:27:21]:
So it really should be a learning tool. It should be, you know, break noise and here's the next five logical questions. They need to start to process the next five logical questions and internalize those so that when they're on the phone and they can't pull up detect auto, they can start to have these conversations without the tech prompting them. And I don't want to take anything away from, from the people that are developing these tools. They're super useful, but they're never going to replace the human who is interfacing with that. So we can't just say, well, you know, at some point the computer is going to do this job. The computer can't emote, the computer can't empathize, and AI has hallucinations, right? They can totally go off kilter. And then where are we? If your advisor or your technician can't put the train back on the tracks, then we're at the mercy of a technical hallucination that we have no control over.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:28:25]:
So as much as AI is a huge tool and I know there are people bending it to their will within the shop environment and it's helping, we also can't start using it, We can't start using it as a crutch. We need to use it as a tool that helps us to learn and to do better at what we do. Can it correct grammar, can it correct language, can it correct spelling? Those are all fabulous things. But we also have to continue to have professional, well trained, well mannered people interacting with the tech. And there is a statistic, and I hate to say it, but I've heard it a couple times, using AI is actually making people less smart. They're not as able to fix problems, they're not as able to think through things. They're relying on the AI to fix their problems. And I personally think that's a sad place for us to be because we need people elevating themselves, getting both intellectually and emotionally smarter instead of leaning on an AI for a friend, like the fact that they have commercials like showing the AI replacing people's friends.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:29:57]:
This is a big concern and we should all be worried about this. And I'm like, I have two feet, I have one foot on either side of this argument. It's a great tool and we can't rely on this 100%. We need to still have the human touch to this. So back to the communication within the shop. This, you can hopefully see, is very, very important and it has a tremendous amount of value, not only internally, but when we work with our customers. So working on this, even maybe getting some technical writing training, creating a system that works within your shop that includes written communication rather than the telephone game, because we all know details can get misconstrued. Two people can have the same conversation and come away with totally different sets of information and the truth is lost somewhere in the middle.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:31:00]:
And as another kind of aside, if you aren't recording your phone calls, I strongly recommend finding a way to get that done. Because, you know, in this day and age, and it's always been, if we can take any element of the he said, she said out of it, this is a huge opportunity to do that. And it's also a good training tool. It's also a good way to recognize your people as they grow and say, hey, you handled that communication excellent. Like, I can't, I can't have had you do any better. And really help them to understand the quality that we're trying to reach for. Do these things cost money? Absolutely, they do. And that's why we have to also look at our costs.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:31:51]:
We have to look at what we're selling. We have to look at our goals and KPIs and make sure that the financial structure of the business is correct in order to support this level of technology. And I have a couple of situations where we're going to have to trace back through a trail of communication to see where was the breakdowns. And this is where the phone recordings and the text streams and all that recorded data becomes very, very handy because we can get past the he said, he said or he said, she said and get to the crux of the situation and maybe help it from happening again. So I'm really encouraging my owners and managers to get on board with this level of communication. If you're running a paperless shop, then the texts are inputting directly into whatever shop management system you're using. If they're using paper, that's fine too. Just make sure we're getting notes and details and documentation.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:33:07]:
I really, really feel like this diagnostic DVI system where we have a step, step by step process will not only behoove and give value to the customer, it also helps keep our technicians lined up. We all know there are these technically gifted people who are Technicians who it's almost voodoo and black magic, right? They walk up to a car and it's like, oh yeah, it's this. And they're right. But I think more often than not we have techs that need a step by step process and if that's not laid out for them somehow the completion is questionable and they might get off on the weeds or they might miss a critical step. And you know, something as easy as does it have ground and power? Like how many times have we been bit by, did you check power and ground and did we make sure that once it did, it did what it was supposed to do? So you all know hopefully by now how much I love my texts, how much I love my advisors and how much and how important our customers are to us. And these relationships are so valuable and creating this level of communication, this level of accountability helps keep the quality of those relationships. And as always, I will segue into quality relationships by thanking our sponsor, WorldPAC and WorldPAC Training Institute. They are out there sharing information, providing training, opening the path for our shops to do better and through either the free hour classes that are there for both owners and technicians and service advisors to take either or both all the way up to the weekend classes that are paid.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:35:08]:
This is a tremendous investment in your team and worldpac has been an excellent partner not only to me but and in my shop, but to our industry. So thank you again to worldpac and worldpac Training Institute. Please, please check them out and use some of the resources that they offer. So building quality relationships I don't think is ever going to be taken over by AI or by a program or by an app. The human element is always going to be in there and I think we need to be very careful about maintaining those relationships. And this is a way that we can improve communication, improve productivity, actually long run, save the shop some money in the event where we land in a warranty situation or a customer come back and really, really dial this process in. And as much as I am, I hate writing SOPs. That is not my favorite thing to do.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:36:10]:
I think having these checklists really drills us down on the fine details and really helps our technicians learn to do better diag to do it in a more productive way. And you know, are there always going to be those cars that kick us around the shop? There are, but hopefully if we can start to, you know, gather this data, have it on hand and then if we need help, then whoever's helping us can review everything that they've done and then go forward from there. So, as always, I want to thank you guys for being in the audience, for taking your time and spending it with me. Please don't discount the importance of this communication and hopefully this will help to elevate your shop. As always, please take everything I have shared with you and make your shop your way. There might be some bits and pieces that you think will work. Hey, take the ideas. Use them.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:37:10]:
That's what they're here for. If you need help with something like this or need coaching, please don't hesitate to reach out to me. We can figure out a way to get you the help that you need. If it's me, the coach, helping you, or if there's another resource we need to find, I am here to help. I'm here to support, and I'm here to help you guys get your shop your way. So once again, thank you so much. Go out and love your people until it's weird. Communicate and we will see you on the next episode.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:37:41]:
Thank you so much.