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Career paths aren't always straightforward. So how do you know which way to go?
There are countless stories about Fortune 100 CEOs and Silicon Valley tech leaders…but far less attention is paid to the people leading the thousands of businesses that quietly power our economy. What about the leaders building successful companies in essential industries that keep our world running every day? What about those who didn’t start with privilege or connections, but built something meaningful anyway? This is Ordinary Greatness - a show about real people who’ve achieved extraordinary things, and the lessons they learned along the way.
Dustin Ogden, Senior Client Partner at Korn Ferry, sits down with CEOs, entrepreneurs and business leaders from essential services industries across the commercial and consumer spectrum. These leaders might not be household names, but they've achieved remarkable things. They share the whole truth on the strategy and mindset every leader should possess. From unglamorous beginnings and failures to turning points and strokes of luck, they expose the real learnings that helped them achieve greatness.
Each episode, you’ll hear advice and insider knowledge that only comes from decades of experience. They’ll share counterintuitive truths, unspoken rules, stories of mentorship that made a difference and even moments of doubt. They’re here to help guide you on your own career journey.
About the Host
Dustin Ogden is a Senior Client Partner at Korn Ferry. Over his career, Dustin has worked with hundreds of CEOs and business leaders, and his deep expertise in executive search has given him unprecedented access to the stories, strategies, and hard-won wisdom of some of the most successful (yet least publicly known) leaders in America.
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Ordinary Greatness is all about the real, human stories of people who built something from nothing and share their guidance on how to become successful and effective business leaders.
This podcast is for the professionals navigating their careers without a mentor. It’s for the senior leaders feeling isolated at the top. And it's for anyone who's ever wondered if their struggles are normal, or if they've got what it takes to make it. Because the leaders you’ll meet have been exactly where you are. And they're ready to show you the way forward.
So join us and discover what success really looks like.
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Dustin Ogden: Sometimes the hardest truth to hear is the one about yourself.
Allie Copeland: I was maybe in my early twenties and the therapist said to me that maybe the problem wasn't the people around me, it was my expectation of them, which was-
Dustin Ogden: You gotta sit on that for a minute.
Allie Copeland: A fair thing to unpack. Unfortunately, when I was 22, my response was, "Go f yourself," and I got up and walked out.
Dustin Ogden: This week, we're speaking with Allie Copeland. Allie is the Chief Commercial Officer at ADI Global Distribution, a company that supplies security and smart building technology to businesses around the world. She spent nearly a decade at ADI, taking on some of the company's biggest leadership roles, from running global and North America operations, to serving the CTO and COO. Outside of that work, she's also passionate about supporting young people aging out of foster care, helping them gain real world experience and a path into the workforce. But the way she leads today was shaped long before her career began in the chapter of her life that started in her teens.
Allie Copeland: It's only been probably in the last five years that I've even been comfortable saying that out loud, because I felt judged a lot of times.
Dustin Ogden: This is "Ordinary Greatness." It's a show about real people who achieved great things, and the lessons they learned along the way. Whether you are just getting started on your career journey, considering a change, interested in hearing stories of leaders who have made it, this is a show for you. So, I mean, you took on a lot of responsibility pretty early in life relative to others. So maybe take us back, tell us what, you know, your teen years were like.
Allie Copeland: So, I was a teen mom. I was pregnant at 16. I had my daughter at 17 years old. I actually graduated high school at 16. And really, you know, kind of was a little bit lost in a lot of ways. But, you know, I was extremely fortunate that my daughter came into my life. I think she gave me a lot of purpose and a lot of drive to do something better for us, and to have a better way. So I went to college, I went to Penn State. You know, I tell people I never went to a football game because I had a baby, and you have to pay for diapers, and you can't afford, you know, a student pass and things like that. So, you know, I went through college, and then her and I packed up in a Hyundai that was not a great car. Hyundais are good cars now, I will say, and they have that great 10 year warranty. When I had one, it was not so great a car, and it liked to overheat, and it was me, her, that Hyundai, a 13 inch television and 500 bucks. And we left Philadelphia, and we were looking for something better, and we were looking for a future, and we found it in Dallas, Texas. And that was how I ended up in Dallas, and that was how I started a career in wholesale when I got down here, it was my first job.
Dustin Ogden: Amazing. You say all that like it was easy. I know it could not have been. Like, were you scared? Like, you know, what was it like?
Allie Copeland: Oh, man. You know, it was easy and like, I think now, and I think about the fact that I have a mortgage and I have all these dogs, and like, when else in my life could I have picked up and said, "We need a fresh start, and we're gonna do better by taking this fresh start." And that was probably the only time in my life that I could have done that. And so, you know, if anything, yeah, it probably says I'm a little bit of a risk taker, but I didn't, I think it was a calculated risk, 'cause in my mind I thought, well, you can always go back home, right? You can always turn around and go back, and if this doesn't work out, you know, what's the worst that can happen kind of a thing.
Dustin Ogden: In the early days, I mean, I think people make a lot of assumptions, right. And did you encounter some of that? How'd you react to it? How'd you manage that?
Allie Copeland: Gosh. Yeah, you know, I will say it's only been probably in the last five years that I've even been comfortable saying that out loud, because I felt judged a lot of times. And I remember people would feel very comfortable. I'd be at the grocery store, you know, 17 with a baby and people didn't hesitate to tell you what they thought about that sometimes, that you were too young to be a parent, or just, you know, just judgment overall. And so I think it created a sense of shame sometimes or, you know, this is something that I shouldn't talk about or that I shouldn't bring up. But then, you know, I realized, you know what? I worked really hard for myself and my daughter, and maybe there's other people out there that need to hear, you hear so much negativity, maybe you need to hear somebody positive that's saying one experience maybe that wasn't on the plan doesn't have to derail your plans in life, or doesn't have to. You can still accomplish all the things that you wanna accomplish and do the things you want. Might it be a little bit harder? Yeah, but I also think there were advantages it gave me. It calmed me down. It gave me a maturity at a younger age that, you know, if you put me with a 17-year-old, other 17 year olds might not have had that maturity. So I think there were also advantages.
Dustin Ogden: Did you recognize that once you got into the working world, was that noticeable to you how differently your mindset was versus theirs?
Allie Copeland: Absolutely, right, because I mean, you're responsible for a life, and you're responsible for, you know, you put myself against somebody 21 working in a wholesaler. You know, I've got daycare, I've got, you know, an education for her that I'm trying to save for. I've got goals that, you know, other maybe 20 and 21 year olds didn't have. So it definitely maybe changed my perspective about a lot of things. And again, I think it kept me calm and it grounded me younger than I would've been if I had been kind of a quote unquote normal, normal 20-year-old living the traditional college life. I definitely had to mature quicker, grow quicker, make trade off decisions quicker. And, you know, all those things came into the workplace. I didn't maybe realize it at the time, but they absolutely came into the workplace. You know, I tell people one of my favorite stories is a single mom's checkbook is the best lesson in working capital, right? Because you learn how to manage cash flow, and you learn how to do things. Now, if you would've asked me when I was 21 if I knew what working capital was, I would've said absolutely not. But at the time when I was working in a wholesale distributor, I was learning how to pay the bills and manage their cash flow, and we were able to invest in additional space and additional people because of those things. And then, you know, when I looked back on it 20 years later, I went, "Well, hell, I was just managing their working capital," but I was doing it from the lens of a single mom's checkbook.
Dustin Ogden: Oh my gosh. That's a thing of the past, right? Nobody's, the generation and two below, nobody's ever gonna actually write those things out in their checkbook anymore.
Allie Copeland: Yeah, did I say check? Yeah, I also double space after periods, which I was told-
Dustin Ogden: Me too.
Allie Copeland: Yeah, I was told is a dead giveaway that, you know, that you're of a certain, you are from the 1900s.
Dustin Ogden: I feel like my freshman college English teacher would just pop out of somewhere and hit me over the head if I didn't but.
Allie Copeland: Yeah, I can't do it. They're like, "Don't do that. Just one space," you know, and I'm like, I just can't.
Dustin Ogden: Double, gotta be double.
Allie Copeland: It's double space. It's double space.
Dustin Ogden: How did that experience with your daughter and having so much responsibility inform you like when you got into early leadership roles?
Allie Copeland: You know, it's funny because sometimes people say that I have mom energy a lot of times in how I approach things. So I would say probably at a young age, you know, I kind of exuded a little bit of mom energy. You know, I wanna take care of my teams. I want my teams to feel heard. I want everyone to feel like they have a voice. And I also wanna value a lot of diversity in the team. I remember we did an exercise with my operations team a couple years ago that was really cool, where we did our Myers-Briggs profiles, and we shared them more to say diversity of thought is an important element of diversity. And, you know, if everybody's an INTJ, or everybody's, you know, an ESFJ or whatever, everybody's probably thinking the same. So it's really important to respect diversity of team and look for different ways to let every voice be heard. And some of that's being a mom, right? Because all your children have different personalities, and they have, there's different ways sometimes you have to motivate them. And so I think the same people are people, right? Humans are humans regardless. So honoring, leaning into the natural talents that people have, or the natural ways and the things that your kids enjoy taught me that you just do the same with people you work with and with your teams, and they'll go far, they'll go really far for you.
Dustin Ogden: Yeah, I wonder if you're an E or an I.
Allie Copeland: I'm an I.
Dustin Ogden: No!
Allie Copeland: Believe it or not-
Dustin Ogden: You must be the softest of Is.
Allie Copeland: I am a, I can put myself out there, but then I joke, it's called turtle time. I need to then like retreat to my shell and read a book and restore.
Dustin Ogden: Get energy, yeah.
Allie Copeland: Yes, I reenergize through the I.
Dustin Ogden: Whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, there are many different ways to lead. One philosophy you may have heard of is called servant leadership, term coined by former AT&T executive Robert K. Greenleaf. That mindset comes through in how Allie talks about her team. She believes every employee is the expert in their own role, and that leaders shouldn't just give direction, they should be ready to roll up their sleeves and work alongside the team.
Allie Copeland: I consider myself, like in the traditional text, I'd say I'm a servant leader, or it's the one I probably resonate with the most. I think you get to a certain level as a leader, probably director level and higher where your job isn't to, you know, your job is to set the strategy and remove obstacles for the folks downstream towards the field. So I think for me, it was kind of a natural progression. It was easier for me to start to move into those roles because I believe, like my job is just to help with, you know, we all have a role to play on the field, right? My job might be the head coach in my team, but I respect kind of everyone's, I respect every single person in every single role because we all have a role to play. And as long as we assume best intent and look at each other that way and respect one another's role. Like, yeah, the quarterback's really cool, but we all can't be the quarterback, right? But the quarterback's not really cool if, you know, if the O-line's not doing what they're supposed to be doing. He's on the ground and he's not so great anymore. So, you know, I think my style is really understand what everyone's role is in the game and respect their role, you know, even though some people maybe get a little bit more accolades at the press conference.
Dustin Ogden: What was the hardest thing for you to remove yourself from? Like, I think of, you know, same, you know. You get along in your career, there were things that you were really good at once upon a time, and maybe you saw like, oh, boy, nobody was ever a better researcher than I. What's the thing that like, oh, boy, that's tough to give up 'cause I was pretty good at that?
Allie Copeland: You know, I don't think I'll ever give it up because it's part of our culture, which is just the legacy of like, I call it go to ground or gemba, right? Like when there's something wrong in the business, go to where it happens. And, you know, and people will say, "Oh, well, you know, you get to a point, you're too high up to do that. There's people that should be doing that." And I actually challenged that line of thought that you should never be too high up to go to the, I mean, there was a whole television series about it, right? Wasn't it, where the bosses and they wore like-
Dustin Ogden: "Undercover Boss?"
Allie Copeland: Undercover, right? There was a whole series about that, and you find out what's really going on in your company. You know, I have two philosophies. One is the best ideas come from the field. They don't come from, you know, probably an executive looking at an Excel spreadsheet. They actually come from engaging with the people who interact with the customers every day, and who are, you know, who are doing the lifting every day. That's where the best ideas come from. So, as a leader, you never wanna get too removed from it. You should often gemba, you should often go to the field, see what's going on, talk to the customers, talk to the people that are doing things every day, and just be part of that.
Dustin Ogden: What were maybe one or two of the tougher moments where things happened to you in your career where that mentality of like putting on a smile and getting after it was really tough?
Allie Copeland: Oh, gosh. Well, I mean, we just went through an ERP conversion about a year ago. So, you know, so some people, you know, might know that I chopped all my hair off. So my joke was we went through an ERP, you know, breakup and I cut my hair. At least I didn't get bangs has been my joke.
Dustin Ogden: Bangs could have been the natural conclusion.
Allie Copeland: Yeah, bangs could have happened from the ERP conversion. That was a tough one, right? Just keeping a smile on your face, 'cause we took, it was 120, well, 110 stores, plus all of our distribution centers. We did a big bang for the Americas. So everybody went live on the same Monday morning, every single process, every single function. We didn't, you know, we had done a small regional deploy in Canada, and then we talked about doing regional deploys, but it was just gonna kind of extend this out for two years. We don't really operate as a regional distributor. Part of our benefit was being national. So we were gonna have all this throwaway code to kind of create a Frankenstein regional system. And we finally just said, you know what? Let's just do it. Let's just rip the bandaid-
Dustin Ogden: The bandaid.
Allie Copeland: And go. So there were, as you can imagine, some really long nights after that. You know, there were some days that were really tough trying to be positive and being the face of kind of the ERP project, when everyone's in that natural trough of despair that happens with the ERP. You know, you can tell people all day long-
Dustin Ogden: They create those charts for a reason.
Allie Copeland: Yeah, like, here's what's gonna happen. But until you're in it and you're actually feeling it, I don't think people realize the reality of just how bleak it can seem, this, you know, during hypercare. So there were nights where, you know, but I still would have a smile on my face and I would joke, you know, trauma bonding is still bonding. Like, even though we're bonding through trauma, we're still bonding together, and we'll be stronger because of that when we get out on the other side.
Dustin Ogden: What about, I mean, and this has been a problem for me, not a lot of women in your industry and our industry. So like, just curious, like, you know, a little bit about that experience, and how do you see that? Is that changing?
Allie Copeland: I definitely think it's changing. So, you know, when I think back 20 years ago, it wasn't uncommon to be the only person sitting in the room that was a woman.
Dustin Ogden: You must have always been.
Allie Copeland: Not anymore. I think there's a lot more women that are in distribution. You know, we recently had our sales kickoff meeting, and I'm gonna say very confidently, 50% of the winners that were on stage that received awards were women. It was as many women as there were men up on stage.
Dustin Ogden: Great.
Allie Copeland: So I think we've come a lot further than 20 years ago in terms of diversity there. But what I will tell you is, and this may make some people uncomfortable, we have a lot more to go, because diversity, we still have a lot of white people in our industry. And I think that's an opportunity that we need to explore why that is.
Dustin Ogden: Bring more people in.
Allie Copeland: Yeah, I think there's still a, you know, I don't think it's women anymore. I think we've made strides, but I also think now it's our obligation to look in the room and say, okay, who else's voice maybe isn't as amplified as it can be, and can we help amplify it? And now we need to lift them up the way others in our careers helped lifted us.
Dustin Ogden: When we talk about careers on this show, we often hear about big pivots and nonlinear careers. That's the idea that most of us will change industries or even professions several times over the course of our lives. But many people with incredible and meaningful careers follow a different path. Allie built her career in wholesale distribution, and she stayed, not because she never explored other options, but because she found something there that kept pulling her back. You've mentioned a couple times really feeling a part of the wholesale industry and that being important to you. I mean, did you ever think about getting out? Like, or you know, just, why does it connect with you so much?
Allie Copeland: You know, I remember there was one point where I always thought I'd be a lawyer. Like when I was a kid, if you had asked me, right.
Dustin Ogden: It's just 'cause you're supposed to be, right?
Allie Copeland: Yeah, well, no, I thought I'd really enjoy, you know, you read a lot, and you research, and you come up with arguments, and I was like, "Oh, I'd love this." And there was a point where, or I remember saying to my husband, like, do I go back to school and try to like, to try to get a law degree? And he goes, "To what end?" Rightfully so, like, what are you trying to accomplish? And I was like, "I don't know," right? "Well, just 'cause I thought, I think I'd be interested in that." And he goes, "Well, are you not interested in what you're doing right now?" And I was like, "No, I love what I'm doing right now." "Okay, so then why change it?" So that was probably the one time in my career where I thought about like, do I, you know, and it was later in at that point where it was kind of like, yeah, like the time is running out.
Dustin Ogden: It would've been a big thing.
Allie Copeland: Yeah, if I'm gonna do it. And he was supportive if I wanted to, but I thought it was a great question was like, to what end? Like, what purpose do you feel like you're missing that you feel like that's where to go? And I didn't have, I was like, no. I mean, I get up every day, I'm energized. I like solving problems. I think I like the blue collar nature of a lot of our customers in wholesale, 'cause I think that resonates with a lot of how I grew up and, you know, that people aren't so posh. I think I like that. So I like our customer base. I like solving problems, and I think that's what distribution is, right? It was spurned out of the Industrial Revolution where, you know, you had to solve a problem and you had to be creative. And I think that problem solvers and creative thinkers find their way into wholesale. And you know, and that's why we've thrived as long as we have.
Dustin Ogden: It's the most people-centric industry, and it's one of the reasons why I love it.
Allie Copeland: Yeah.
Dustin Ogden: Early in my career, I worked in a little bit of healthcare, a little bit of tech. You get some exposure to some different things, and all of that is interesting. But the people in this business, it's the best.
Allie Copeland: Yeah, I mean, you know, there are some days where you're just like, okay, what rock did you crawl out from? But by and large, again, because I think it's like such a small industry of community, I think the people that love it, they stay. And I also love that you don't necessarily have to have a perfect background to be in distribution, right? Like the Dick Waterman's of the world that became CEO and didn't go to college. You know, the Allie Copelands that had a baby at 16. And like, I think in wholesale distribution, you don't, we embrace the imperfect a little bit and create a sense of, you're welcome here, you know, even if you maybe don't fit this traditional mold. And I think that's what attracts people to it, and I think that's what keeps us here.
Dustin Ogden: Yeah, I love that. It's great that you had a good partner kinda check your thinking about the whole law school thing.
Allie Copeland: Yeah.
Dustin Ogden: But it does, it's an interesting topic. When do you know to just be happy doing what you're doing, and live within that and focus on what you're doing?
Allie Copeland: You know, I don't know. I think it's hard for me to answer that. There's a book I'm reading right now, and it's Oprah and Brooks wrote it together, Arthur Brooks, who wrote "From Strength to Strength." And it's about being happy. My husband and I, we like to read books together, like we'll read a chapter a day together and then talk about it. So we're reading that one and a lot of like what's in it about being happy, like I feel like I just naturally, like I already do that. So, you know, he's getting some findings. And so I think for me it was just, you know, like I didn't have the best childhood growing up. I had a lot of, you know, a lot of background there and a lot of trauma that I had to work through from growing up. And so I think I just look at the bright side of things because I'd rather my head space be there than, you know. Any of us can dwell in the negative and can, you know, and can point to that and say, "Well, that's why I'm this way or that." Like, but okay. Again, to what end? Like to what purpose? And you know, I think there was a concerted time, and I did a lot of therapy, you know, in my twenties to get there. You know, there was a point where it was like, I can't control everybody else, but I can control my reaction to things, and I can control how I choose to move forward from things, and that was very just empowering and liberating to me. Like I don't have to choose to have hate in my heart or anger at situation, right? Like, I can choose the energy that I respond to things with and that I put out in the world. And that was like just one of my most probably empowering therapy sessions. Like the therapist, I know this is a podcast, so if you're listening, you wouldn't be able to see it. But I remember him saying, you know, he used his hands and he said, if somebody goes here, right, like ups the ante in a situation, you don't have to like meet the ante with them. Like you can just choose to say, no, I'm gonna exit myself from this situation and I'm gonna move on, and, you know, 'cause that's what's best for me. And I remember that just being really powerful. And it made me think to myself, that was where they're like, okay, so, you know, if the situation's not healthy or I'm not happy, I'm gonna go find a situation where I am healthy and happy.
Dustin Ogden: Yeah, it's great that you found that resource. It's kinda, you know, we're a similar generation, and so I think it's great that we've come of age when, I think when we were younger, therapy was still this sort of-
Allie Copeland: It was.
Dustin Ogden: Oh, like, you know, and you wouldn't admit that you were in it, you know, it's a bad thing. And you know, now it's just like a tool in everyone's toolkit. It's great.
Allie Copeland: Yeah. I think everyone should have a therapist at some point in their life. And I will tell you, there were times I wasn't mature enough where I walked out of therapy sessions 'cause maybe I didn't, I wasn't able to receive what they were saying. And I've even looked back and went, wow, that therapist was really right. I wonder what would've happened if I would-
Dustin Ogden: Okay, look, I don't wanna-
Allie Copeland: Have stuck with them.
Dustin Ogden: Create a HIPAA violation, but if you have any good examples that would be like.
Allie Copeland: Oh, I remember. I do. Well, it's my story, so I think I can tell it. I was in therapy, I was maybe in my early twenties and the therapist said to me that maybe the problem wasn't the people around me, it was my expectation of them, which was-
Dustin Ogden: You gotta sit on that for a minute.
Allie Copeland: A fair thing to unpack. Unfortunately, when I was 22, my response was, "Go f yourself," and I got up and walked out, which was not the, you know.
Dustin Ogden: But you remember it still, so.
Allie Copeland: But you know what, yeah, like, if I could, and what's sad is I don't remember her name, 'cause like, I wish I could go back and be like, you know what, like 20 years later, you know, 20, 30 years down the road now when I think of like that conversation, when I was at a place to receive what she was saying, I really did understand what she was trying to say and was able to make myself better because of it. But yeah, at the time, I was not open. I did not have an open mindset to receive that input.
Dustin Ogden: It's a good line though. I do like it.
Allie Copeland: Yeah, she was, in a lot of ways she was right. And what I think she was saying wasn't don't hold people accountable, you know, but what she was saying is like, people are gonna be people. They're gonna, you know, things are gonna happen. Again, it's you control your life, not everyone else's. And if you spend your life trying to control the good, the bad, the negative, and how other people respond to things, you're never gonna be happy. You're gonna chase that.
Dustin Ogden: And also, are you pushing people in the direction you want them to? Are you leading them to where you want to go?
Allie Copeland: Yeah, exactly. And if you're pushing them, again, you're never gonna be happy in that relationship with them because, and they're never gonna be happy. So, you know, I think there was just, it was a, yeah-
Dustin Ogden: It's good.
Allie Copeland: It was very powerful what she was trying to teach me, but I wasn't a good student in that moment.
Dustin Ogden: The advice that sent Allie walking out of that therapy session was simple. Stop focusing so much on everyone else and start focusing on yourself. It wasn't easy to hear at the time, but over the years, that idea reshaped how she thinks about career and identity. Allie has built an incredible career, but she believes work can't be the only place you find purpose. And when you build a fuller sense of purpose outside your job, it also opens the door to giving back. That's the perspective Allie now shares with younger professionals who are just starting out.
Allie Copeland: I think one of the things that I tell them, and it's very important to me is I always say family, career in that order. Work for a company and work for a boss that understands that. And oh, by the way, family doesn't necessarily have to mean a traditional, a traditional family.
Dustin Ogden: Sure.
Allie Copeland: Right, you might have a community-
Dustin Ogden: Dog moms. Love our dog moms.
Allie Copeland: Dog moms. It could be your church family like-
Dustin Ogden: Represent.
Allie Copeland: You know, there's something that's important to you outside of your career. Make sure that you have an identity outside of your career. You know, I see a lot of individuals that, you know, are older, as I'm getting on the other side, you know. If you read Brooks's book "From Strength to Strength," it's like crystallized versus growth intelligence. I'm like, okay, I'm crystallizing a little bit, and that's okay as long as, you know, I balance it with growth mindset people around me. But one of the things that I tell them is create an identity and create purpose outside of who you are in your career, because you could lose your job tomorrow. You could decide to retire earlier, and then what are you gonna do? So I think it's just really important to, you know, I say family, career. Again, family can be whatever you need it to be to have community and purpose, but have something outside of career and protect that order.
Dustin Ogden: I've been doing this for 17 years, and I've watched so many people just retire without a plan.
Allie Copeland: Yeah.
Dustin Ogden: And compare them against those who do have a plan, and I mean, it's just unbelievable the difference, right. You know, if you have that sense of purpose, what are you gonna do in those years? How are you gonna contribute? How are you gonna feel valuable? Because then next thing you know, you're just sitting around and going, "Hey, boy, there's a lot of people who are active still doing all these other things, and you know, I'm just here retired." I think that's a, you know, it'd be a tough transition.
Allie Copeland: I think you're spot on. And you know, the other thing I think is it's very American of us, right? Like, as I've-
Dustin Ogden: Get the gold watch.
Allie Copeland: Yeah, like, and being in a global role, like, it's not common in other countries, right? Like if somebody says, "Oh, tell me about you," like, we instantly go to our career. Like, this is what I, you know, that's not you, right?
Dustin Ogden: Yep, yeah.
Allie Copeland: And that's something that I think is very American in a lot of ways, and we don't always respect, you know, the older cultures and the wisdom that they bring and those things. So I think it's really important to, you know, look, companies are great, but at the end of the day, they're companies and they're running businesses and they're gonna make decisions. So it's important not to put 100% of yourself in that bucket. You need to protect a certain portion of yourself. And I say, look, there's, you know, when I say family, like I'm never gonna travel on my anniversary or my kids' birthdays. I don't care. Like, 'cause that's too important to me to be there, and there's birth, you know, I'm not gonna miss those things. And you know, again, work for places that can respect that, and if they don't, then go find somewhere else, because there's gonna come a day that you're not gonna be working there, and you don't wanna look back and say, wow, I gave it all for something and have no purpose or got nothing out of it in the future.
Dustin Ogden: Yeah. That's, yeah, not gonna be, you know, too many sentences in your obit, right. I know you've talked about resilience being, you know, a keystone of your success. How do you get it? Can you build it? Can you develop it, like?
Allie Copeland: I think so.
Dustin Ogden: Or is that just scar tissue that just like comes along?
Allie Copeland: Well, I definitely think there's a lot of scar tissue there. So I had a lot of opportunities to build it, is what I would say.
Dustin Ogden: But I think like the person who maybe didn't have the unique situation you had, or that much adversity, and then they find themselves, you know, stranded or something at a certain point, like then how do they build, you know, some toughness?
Allie Copeland: I think therapy is part of it, right, is learning, is being open with your emotions. You know, I think sometimes in society, we're told like, you know, there's like two emotions, you can be happy or sad. And there's a whole gamut. And really understanding the layers down there, and what motivates you as an individual. It's really getting to know yourself more than anything, and getting to know what you're comfortable with. What are your, you know, what are your boundaries in life? What's important to you? You know, what does integrity mean to you? And really understanding those things. And I think then through your experiences, you'll learn, you know, how to make trade-offs when you need to or not make trade-offs. And it'll help you see things as opportunities instead of always obstacles, right. Like, you know, I always say I didn't, I wasn't born knowing the things that I know now. I had to learn them. So, I mean, none of us come out of the womb like, you know, you weren't a rockstar executive recruiter, right, coming out of the womb. You had to learn those things. So, you know, I think it's just, it's a willingness-
Dustin Ogden: First time I've ever been associated with rockstars, so I'll take it.
Allie Copeland: It's just a willingness to learn, right, and it's a willingness to say, okay, I won't do that again. And also sometimes a willingness to just fess up when you screwed up.
Dustin Ogden: Yeah, that's a good-
Allie Copeland: Like, hey, you know what? I tried something and that wasn't something I'd do again. And I think that's where people go wrong from a resilience perspective. I think they're unwilling to admit sometimes to themselves that maybe they made a mistake or they did something wrong. So they try to like repaint it into a different, they try to reframe it somehow. I mean, there's a lot of things that I've done, you know, wrong in my life, or things that I wouldn't duplicate, or things I'm ashamed of, you know, as an older person. But that's how you grow. That's how you learn. That's how you get better.
Dustin Ogden: I know you take that positive energy and gratitude into giving back. So talk a bit about charitable contributions, the way you give back.
Allie Copeland: When we were part of Honeywell, we couldn't do a lot of philanthropy 'cause Honeywell had its own philanthropy arm and everything. You know, just being part of a big corporation.
Dustin Ogden: Sure.
Allie Copeland: So now being a smaller, nimble company, it kind of created the opportunity to start doing philanthropy in our company. I'm really focused on kids aging out of foster care. I think for us-
Dustin Ogden: We've talked about this.
Allie Copeland: In wholesale, there is a huge population of workers. You know, we always talk about, "Oh, we need workers, we need good people. Where are we gonna find them?" There is a massive group of young adults that are 18 years old that are aging out of foster care, that are looking for a community, that are looking for purpose, and that are looking for some direction. And I think that we as an industry can really tap into that and give them all of those things. Speaking for myself, while I wasn't a kid that aged out of foster care, there was some very similar, you know, kind of coming here with really nothing and having to establish myself. I found community in distribution, and I think that there's a whole workforce for us out there of future CEOs that are aging out of foster care. So Direction 61:3 is one I wanna give a shout out to, and then also La La Land. They actually, they're really cool. They pair, they're in I think California, New York, Texas. They're growing, and what they are is they're coffee shops, and they have something called the Foundation. So they have their cafes, through the Foundation, they give kids that are aging out of, or that are, you know, aging out of foster care, they work at the cafe. So they're teaching them business skills and work skills, and then they also pair them with a mentor every semester. So I highly recommend if you see a La La Land Cafe anywhere around you, going and patronizing them.
Dustin Ogden: La La Land Cafe.
Allie Copeland: And the coffee's pretty good too.
Dustin Ogden: Good to shout out. Nice. All right, we're gonna have to talk about taking the foster career, you know, aging out pipeline, taking that national, we're gonna have to, we're gonna become that.
Allie Copeland: I'm telling you, I firmly believe not just, you know, not just in wholesale distribution, but, right, our customers that say we need technicians or we need, like, think about how could you tap into that talent pool. I'm telling you, like, there's kids out there that would make phenomenal apprentices in our industries, and I think would really, again, I think they're the next CEOs. The next CEOs are out there, and it's up to us, same thing, to kind of help bring 'em in and give 'em an opportunity. I'll be honest, like, my kids don't wanna work in distribution. I get it. You know, they're carving their own path. So I think a lot of us are finding that, you know, it's not our, it's not so much like, okay, the second generation and the third that maybe it used to be back when there were more family owned businesses. So I think we just, we have to think differently about where we're going and where we're looking for talent.
Dustin Ogden: Love that you referred to your multi-billion dollar company as smaller and nimble. That's pretty good.
Allie Copeland: Compared to the Honeywell days. You know, I joke, like there were so many layers, I think they were in space at some point. Like, I think there was an alien ship, there were so many layers compared to now.
Dustin Ogden: Divisions within divisions, that's a-
Allie Copeland: There is too big sometimes.
Dustin Ogden: Throughout our conversation, Allie kept coming back to these ideas: serving, resilience, and the importance of building a life that extends beyond work. Her perspective was shaped by an early chapter in her life that didn't follow the traditional path. And today, she's using those lessons to help others find their own footing. And now to wrap things up, some rapid fire questions. Favorite movie?
Allie Copeland: One of my favorites that I recently watched like within the last couple years was "Everything Everywhere All at Once."
Dustin Ogden: Yeah.
Allie Copeland: It was, it won the Oscar, and I just thought it was amazing-
Dustin Ogden: Unique.
Allie Copeland: It was one of my favorites. And this past weekend I watched "Hamnet," which is also in the running for Oscar, and for an Oscar this year, and it was amazing. I did not think I was gonna enjoy it at all, and I thought it was just fantastic.
Dustin Ogden: Favorite food from your hometown when you grew up?
Allie Copeland: Ooh, well, I grew up in Philly, so Philadelphia is, I mean, I can't pick one. You're gonna make me pick one?
Dustin Ogden: I feel like Philly's got a pretty obvious one.
Allie Copeland: Philly's, well, I mean, you've got the cheese steak of course, right? But an Italian hoagie is like, is just pretty solid, I feel like, even more so than a cheese steak, yeah.
Dustin Ogden: That's good.
Allie Copeland: Definitely Italian hoagie, little oregano, you know, little salt, little pepper. Sweet and hot peppers, definitely.
Dustin Ogden: All right, have to give that a go. You have a recommendation next time I go to Philadelphia. Best concert you've ever been to?
Allie Copeland: Ooh, that's a really good one. And I don't wanna have recency bias on this, but I might. So over the holiday, what do you buy, you know, the man that has everything? So my husband is a huge fan of CCR, Creedence Clearwater Revival.
Dustin Ogden: Nice, sure, yeah.
Allie Copeland: And you know, John Fogerty wouldn't play the songs for a long time 'cause he didn't have the catalog and he had the falling out, and he now plays, he Taylor Swifted the catalog. He rerecorded it and he's playing again. And he's in his eighties, so he plays a couple shows every year in Vegas. And we went out on January 2nd for date night and we saw John Fogerty play in Vegas, and he was amazing. He had his sons up there playing, you know, all the old CCR songs. Sounded just as good, you know. I mean, he's aged incredibly well musically, and it was just a great, enjoyable concert 'cause he was having fun up there with his family, and the songs are great, and it was a really good show.
Dustin Ogden: All right, a little more serious one. If you weren't doing this, what would you be doing?
Allie Copeland: Oh, man. Well, I joke I'd be a stay at home dog mom, but that's probably not realistic 'cause I probably would get bored. But I think I would probably teach supply chain. So, I would've had to have been doing this to go there to leverage that experience. But I'd love to, you know, I do guest lectures at TCU a couple times a year, which I always enjoy doing. And you know, I've done 'em down at A&M before. So I think I'd love to just kind of teach the next generation of, you know, of supply chain leaders, and hopefully they could learn from some of my battle scars.
Dustin Ogden: Do you have dogs? What kind of dogs? And like, is it enough? Like if you were your dog mom, would you have a lot more?
Allie Copeland: There's never enough. So we had four, one passed away and we have three now. And not only are they dogs, I should preface, they're rescue dogs, which means they come with such a myriad of medical issues, and eye drops, and I mean, it's just ridiculous, right?
Dustin Ogden: I don't know, I think some of these purebred dogs have got some of their own.
Allie Copeland: That's fair. That's fair. So, I have three now, they're all little dogs, they're all rescues, they're all a nightmare. My husband did say when we had four that if I took any more home that there would be a Facebook listing for a middle-aged woman and five dogs in need of a new home. So I think he's capped me out. No more for the time being.
Dustin Ogden: I think I get that.
Allie Copeland: So he also noted rather correctly that as our kids grew and left for college, I was replacing them with small high maintenance dogs. And I tried to tell him that wasn't true, and then he said, "Well, when Jesse graduated you got that dog," and then he went through and showed me the evidence, and he may be right. I may be replacing, you know, my children with small dogs that are high maintenance.
Dustin Ogden: Love an example of a husband being right-
Allie Copeland: Yeah.
Dustin Ogden: By the way. We don't get many of those.
Allie Copeland: Yeah, we might have to edit that part out so he doesn't hear it.
Dustin Ogden: This has been "Ordinary Greatness." Subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. Please feel free to reach out on LinkedIn to let me know what you think of the show. Catch you next time.