Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Explore your curiosity - Interesting people with fascinating stories.
Life consists of three things:
-The stories we tell others
-The stories others tell us
-The stories we tell ourselves.
Graham, welcome aboard to the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Ari. Pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1:So I gotta, I gotta confess that what you do is a little bit of magic, or at least that's what it seems like to us moggles. Let me start with a very simple question. Personal branding, is that something everybody needs to care about or only certain types of people?
Speaker 2:Well, think everyone already has a personal brand. Whether they care about it or not, that's a personal choice. I think that it is more prevalent in a professional setting. And we used to say that your personal brand was what people say about you when you're not around.
Speaker 1:I love that. So, so you know, Story Samurai, our outlet, we have three things, three types of stories. One of the types of stories is the stories other people tell about you, so I love that overlap. So, so you know, if you're an entrepreneur, it's kind of a no brainer. Your personal brand is part of your selling.
Speaker 1:You're a salesperson, then also seems to be a no brainer that you would do social selling, but that seems to be really difficult. And then the third category that we'll touch upon is kind of like, okay, I work for a company, I might need to find a new job in who knows when, maybe tomorrow, maybe in two years. My personal brand also matters. So let's go through these one at a time. Is it so difficult salespeople to leverage their social media to actually sell?
Speaker 2:Well, it really comes down to have they been trained in order to do it? One of the interesting things that we found when we did some research into B2B sales professional job descriptions, we analyzed 2,000 job descriptions. Not one of those job descriptions, and this was in B2B tech, not one of them asked for social selling capability around LinkedIn or Sales Navigator, but 98% of the job descriptions asked for CRM expertise. So if we're not asking for it, when we arrive in our new company, we're not necessarily being caught it. Is the challenge even starting earlier on that the executives,
Speaker 1:the VPs, chief revenue offers, they don't know how to social sell?
Speaker 2:That's right. I think that what happens in a sales organization is that you have somebody join the organization, they do remarkably well at selling, and then they get promoted. Now, when you are unconsciously competent at something, now you're in a sales leadership position, you're not necessarily aware of what got me here, that's the unconscious competency, but I'm also, if I haven't used social media, I'm not the custodian of best practices. And that's why there are so many webinars and training sessions that are available on YouTube or on LinkedIn, because it's filling a void that is not currently being filled by businesses.
Speaker 1:So how do we, so if we identify as leaders that we have this gap, why are leaders not filling it? Why are they not like, oh, this is a wonderful, you know, channel. I need to learn how to do it. Why is there this discrepancy between, I've actually heard leaders say, well, you know, it's just not an effective channel. So why do we have this discrepancy in the market?
Speaker 2:Right. So my perception is that we are not treating social media in general like an enterprise application. If we were to install an Oracle or an SAP, any ERP system, Salesforce, inside of an organization, it has executive sponsorship, it has a steering committee, it has a pilot study, and then they roll it out through the organization. Now, when it comes to social media, for many organizations, it's social media. That sounds like a job for the intern.
Speaker 2:So there's a disconnect, if we don't have that support and treat it like an enterprise application, we're going to get as many outcomes based upon the number of people using it.
Speaker 1:But there's another paradigm here. It's not just the kind of the intern working on the company's social media. Every single salesperson and if I may say even non salespeople, have their own social media. That fair play or because there's a dynamic here where maybe the employee is like well use your own social media to sell but then on the other hand the employee might be like, yeah absolutely I get a commission, why wouldn't I do that? But maybe somebody who's not a salesperson might be like, no no no, that's private.
Speaker 1:Do you navigate that dynamic between kind of corporation and employee?
Speaker 2:Right. What's interesting about the rather unique with the LinkedIn platform is while me and you might work for the same organization and we're both in a business development role, the intellectual property of the profile does not belong to the company. It belongs to us. And so I don't think there's clarity in most organizations where they say, how are we going to develop the LinkedIn channel to drive new business opportunities? What we find is that people give it a very spirited go.
Speaker 2:If they get frustrated, then they're going to go back to what I was doing before versus accomplishing the acquisition of a new skill. If it's not being asked about by management and it's not being directed by management, then learning something new and not getting recognition for it, honestly sounds like a lot of extra work and distraction of what I'm in quotes supposed to be doing.
Speaker 1:Right. Right. So, so there's obviously a lot of attempts to make it work and a lot of failure. What are the, you know, except for, you know, going through a program and kind of learning and getting the support, what are the, let's say the unlocking secret sources that make a difference even perceptually between what people are doing today, which is failing, and the kind of recipes that work? What's the mind shift that happens between those two?
Speaker 2:Right. First is to realize nobody ever sold anything on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is not a sales order processing system. What it is, is a networking where you have an opportunity to shape the perception of your target audience with not only what you say, how you present yourself, but also how you behave as well. What we find is that if I'm in sales and I'll go on to LinkedIn, I come across as very salesy versus being relationship based.
Speaker 2:And what we found the secret sauce is how do I insert myself into somebody's awareness, build a trust and rapport with them, and then look to exit the LinkedIn platform based upon the belief of your audience that it's going to be worth my time jumping on a call with Ari or with Graham. And now it's no longer LinkedIn. Now we're definitively in a networking business sales exploratory call area that can lead to new opportunities. So don't sell on LinkedIn, behave like a strategic advisor or a trusted partner, because that's where ultimately anybody in sales, that's where you want to end up.
Speaker 1:Right. It almost feels like salespeople are inherently the like misfit to LinkedIn because the job you're actually doing on LinkedIn and other social media is actually a marketing job. It's not a sales job. Is that a fair insight?
Speaker 2:It is fair. What I would offer though, is that in my sales career, when I was asked about my pipeline, my sales colleague wasn't sat in the chair next to me, you know, taking the heat that the, you know, quota wasn't being hit. And so very often inside of an organization, when there's direct alignment between sales and marketing, we're all pulling on the same rope in the same direction. But sadly, lot of organizations have it that marketing is doing something over here on the company page or the showcase page, which is a world away from what's happening inside of that account manager or sales professional's LinkedIn presence.
Speaker 1:Right. And we do see these almost fights or tug of war between sales complaining, oh, there's not enough leads coming in. We're saying, oh, the leads that are coming in, there's a lot, but they're not qualified. You know, and then similar, but different complaints coming from marketing into sales. And then here we are asking for a salesperson to do all of the work basically on their own platform.
Speaker 1:So there's obviously going to be a gap. What would you advise for a salesperson who wanted to kind of, you know, really identify that there's an opportunity here? What are the steps or experiments or tools that they should start arming themselves with to become good at social selling? Right. My
Speaker 2:first thought when you share that is how do you perceive the tool? How do you perceive LinkedIn? And for a lot of sales professionals, yes, I do some research on clients, but I've primarily used it to get a job. Now, if I see it as a job tool, I'm not necessarily always perceiving it and using it like a prospecting tool. So when we go through the job search process, especially if I'm in sales, I am looking to shape the perception of the VP of Sales or the Chief Revenue Officer.
Speaker 2:And so I talk about crushing quota, negotiation skills, going to chairman's club, all of these things to impress the VP of sales or the chief revenue officer. But when I get the job, and now I'm selling to IT or the chief financial officer, those things that made me attractive for a sales engagement with that company, now I've got the job, that same message is not going to resonate with this new audience. So first of all, I have to recognize that I need to change my profile to be commensurate with the audience that I wish to serve. I would offer that step one.
Speaker 1:So I mean the same thing that worked for you was completely fine tuned and targeted to getting a job. Now you're almost redoing your profile to do something else. That's a very interesting insight. How do you even approach that? Are there, you know, it's okay, so I understand it's different, but what does that mean?
Speaker 2:Right. So when I'm selling anything, whether it's a product or a service, what I'm essentially doing is bringing a solution to solve a pain point for the audience that I'm looking to serve, my ideal client profile. I need to set up my profile so that it's abundantly clear I solve ERP problems for manufacturing companies in Minnesota and Wisconsin very, very specific, because now that's the territory that I've been assigned. And we know that attention spans are shorter than a goldfish, And so when somebody perhaps takes a look at our profile, they shouldn't have to go much further than the title underneath my photograph to understand who I am and what I'm about.
Speaker 1:That's so important. I'll give a small confession. As part of my journalistic work, was in a conference last week and I basically was just walking the floor and I would basically look at the booth and try and figure out, okay, is this a fit for what I'm looking to interview? So I spent and there are thousands of booths in that conference so I have maybe five to ten seconds to look at that booth similar to social media's you know span of attention and what I found out is and I would be remiss in saying that it was more than 50%, it was more than 90% that I looked at the booth and there was no indication on what they do. Like I could not look at the booth and be like that's what they do, that's super interesting.
Speaker 1:We see the same problem with your social media profiles, we see this the same problem in many aspects of life. So this idea of the five second test like can somebody look at whatever it is right collateral or environments or situation and be like I get it right. It's the equivalent of the entrepreneurs elevator pitch right. The same thing exactly. I'm just amazed that so many people get it wrong and big companies spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on booths can't get it right either.
Speaker 1:They're just hoping that their brand kind of makes it work. Right. So I love that insight. Thank you so much for sharing that. With your permission, I want to change tracks a little bit.
Speaker 1:Okay. People looking for jobs, they're doing it once every so often. How should they look at their branding? Is this something that they just work on, you know, a couple months before they start to look for their next job? Or is this an ongoing process?
Speaker 2:Right. I take the perspective that all of us are the CEO of our services, and we decide what capabilities and talents that we're looking to offer to a prospective employer. And if we want continuous employment throughout our careers, then we need to be constantly marketing and selling that capability in order to attract opportunities. Now, when it comes to looking for new jobs, we've got really two categories. We've got the individuals who don't have a job right now and what's their approach.
Speaker 2:And then we've got the individuals who are in a position, but they're perhaps looking for something new. The folks who do have a position, what I would offer is use your profile to look like a rock star in your current role. It'll serve two purposes. One is anybody from the organization who takes a look sees that you're doing an excellent job as a brand ambassador for the organization.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Now, being a rock star then also makes it attractive for recruiters and hiring teams looking to hire the best and the brightest into their organization. Now, truth of
Speaker 1:the matter is that, you know, you don't know if you're going to lose your job tomorrow for reasons that are not up to you, that you have no idea about. And the truth of the matter is that it's easier to find a job out of a position of power meaning you already have a job. So the way that I like to talk about this is that if you have a job you're in insurance mode right? You're investing into that profile to create a barrier, a defense, a shield and insurance that when you need it, it's there for you that you don't get thrown into this position of weakness and then you suddenly need to do all the work. So in this quote unquote insurance mode or preventative mode, what are the kind of stuff, what are the things that you need to do to look like a rock star basically in your current job for your current employer?
Speaker 1:What would you recommend?
Speaker 2:Right. I love the term insurance. Actually use that one myself when people talk to me about, Hey, I'm thinking about doing something different, so there's some uncertainty. But how do you look like a rockstar? It's simply a fair reflection of what you're doing in real life.
Speaker 2:The temptation is there every day to go in, do a fantastic job for your company, for your clients, and then go home. And everybody inside of that bubble is absolutely aware of the contribution that you make, outside sorry, in that bubble, nobody knows. And if you're not talking about it, if you're not sharing it, then you're effectively a well kept secret. And you're also understating and underrepresenting your value. And either or both of those are a significant challenge when you're looking to make a move.
Speaker 1:And you kind of you talk about your, you know, the challenges that you're dealing with and your approaches and you kind of create this content right, really what this is is you're creating awareness, it's the beginning of the marketing funnel. You're not necessarily looking to convert, you're not looking to convert into a new job, but you still network, still take meetings, do you still build relationships and go into real interactions with real people? What's the kind of, what's that line? What do you actually do beyond the awareness at that stage?
Speaker 2:Sure, I like your framing around a relationship. Relationships influence decisions. The stronger the relationship, the more influence you have over it. And I would offer that in the mix of any given day when you're prospecting, when you're working with your clients, don't forget to work in networking meetings, either with others in your industry, or if you do have an interest perhaps in switching industries, start to cultivate those relationships so that if you do at some point want to cash in your insurance, you're not an unknown entity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think what's really important about this is people think that you know, you know they sold what was it, they sold some company for a billion dollars over a weekend. No, they did not. They had a ten year relationship that culminated in a weekend sale. That's the same thing when it comes to big deals in B2B, that's the same thing when it comes to finding your next job. You're actually building a relationship over years that you'll cash in into a new job, a big deal, whatever and you should be building those relationships by you know, you know sharing information, actually helping, making introductions, all the ways that we build relationships socially and quite honestly if you don't know how to do that go read How to Make Friends and Influence People.
Speaker 1:The book is, I don't know, 50 years old but it's still golden. So, Simon, you've got to do those things. You're not just putting yourself out there through likes and follows and whatnot. That's just the first step of the funnel, it's the marketing awareness. The second step is go build real relationships, meet real people and you know do what you know what the book says, give them a gift, give first, do something valuable because they will appreciate you for that and they'll feel the need to give back as well, which is part of the sales magic that we all do.
Speaker 1:So we do this in our sales meeting, but somehow when we think about LinkedIn, we're not doing that, which is interesting. Graham, this has been wonderful. I want to change the topic one more time and ask a little bit about your personal journey. What was the thing that kind of awoken you to personal branding? Was it gradual?
Speaker 1:Was there this extreme point of pain where you're like I need to do something different? How did you come to all these insights and where you are today?
Speaker 2:Well, started my career before there was social media and I was in the consulting business, which means
Speaker 1:You're actually social an IT, right?
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right, both in Europe and here in The US. Now, as a consultant, you work for one company, but you have to go and interview at every single assignment. And so it's how you go about managing your resume, your bio, your interviewing skills. The better you did at that, the more placements you're on, the more expertise you develop, not only then the company benefits from higher bill rates, but it also has a direct impact on your compensation. So fast forward to 2003 when I signed up for LinkedIn, I saw it as an opportunity to add simply another string to the bow in how you go and present your skills and capabilities from a consulting perspective.
Speaker 2:And so I'd actually moved out of sales and I was in senior leadership in a company and I had to do a reduction in force. And so it was the worst day that I had at work. And so I actually volunteered at church groups, job transition groups, networking groups, talking to people about how to position their skills, talents, and capabilities to be attractive to a potential employer. So that's where I learnt my chops as to how to transfer in person capability and capacity over to my avatar, LinkedIn presence.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's so funny because my journey is almost identical. I had to fire the Chief Revenue Officer completely messed up, overspent, then he comes to me and is like, oh, you need to fire your whole team and you're fired yourself, and that was just so excruciatingly painful that I, you know, I introduced people to my network, I helped them work on their CV, I helped them work on their LinkedIn, that was the process I had just out of pure pain, so I appreciate you sharing that story with us today. Graham, have one last question. It's a difficult one because it's very personal.
Speaker 1:If you had to go back to the most difficult moments of your life, whether it was ten months ago or ten years ago, what would be the advice that you would give yourself?
Speaker 2:To have patience. No matter how old we are, there isn't a problem that we haven't been able to overcome, even though when we're actually in that problem and when we're in that moment, it does feel insurmountable. So I would just ask that you have some grace and kindness to yourself and patience with the process.
Speaker 1:Graham, this has been a delight. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're welcome, my
Speaker 1:friend.
Speaker 2:I'm glad it helped.