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Rad Chat is a forward-thinking global knowledge hub where healthcare professionals can advance their knowledge and expertise in radiotherapy and oncology by utilising the award winning, first therapeutic radiographer led oncology podcast and social media channels.
We're empowering healthcare professionals worldwide by providing free, CPD-accredited radiotherapy and oncology education, by sharing real-world experience, expert insights, best practice and patient perspectives, we're helping healthcare professionals’ advance cancer care and improve patient outcomes.
Naman Julka-Anderson (00:00)
Hello everyone and welcome to Rad Chat, founded by me, Naman Julka- Anderson.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (00:04)
and me, Jo McNamara. So Rad Chat is a forward thinking global knowledge hub where healthcare professionals can advance their expertise in radiotherapy and oncology. Unlike traditional academic resources, we blend real world experience, expert insights, best practice, and of course, most importantly, patient perspectives.
Naman Julka-Anderson (00:23)
We make advanced knowledge engaging and accessible, supporting continuous learning and professional development without compromising patient care or personal time. By providing insights into both technical skills and career development, helping you progress confidently in your field and shape your professional future.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (00:39)
Just to let you know, our episodes may contain sensitive and difficult topics that you may find distressing or triggering.
Naman Julka-Anderson (00:47)
So this is episode 204, which is part of the Living With and Beyond Cancer series, where we will be hearing from our guest, Jess Synge talking about her experience of cancer and her career in radiation therapy. Hi Jess, how are you?
Jess (00:59)
Hi guys, good, thank you.
Naman Julka-Anderson (01:02)
Great to have you on. Would you mind just starting and telling us a little bit about yourself for our listeners, please?
Jess (01:07)
Absolutely. So as Naman has already said, my name is Jess. I am, was trained as a radiation therapist a number of years ago now. I live in Tauranga in New Zealand, which is the North Island, way down the bottom of the world. I had a lovely long career in radiation therapy, probably, or not long enough. I thought I'd do it forever. And then
A few years ago I actually made a change to working for Elekta, which I haven't looked back from, although I thought I'd be a radiation therapist for the rest of my life. It's been quite a transition. I think, where else was I going to go with that? Yeah, I've got two young boys, six and nine years old, that keep me very busy. What else have I got to tell you about myself?
I got into radiation therapy primarily because of my experience with cancer when I was 15. So I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma. And then, yeah, that's what propelled me into radiation therapy. And then just last year, just before Christmas, I was diagnosed with breast cancer, which was actually as a side effect of my long-term side effect of my past mantle radiation. So, yeah, I think I've had
quite the career in radiation therapy, both as a patient and as a professional. Yeah, a little bit about me.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (02:28)
⁓ Thank you so much for sharing and we have to say it is quite impressive that you are our first guest from New Zealand and the time zones we have managed to make work so if anyone's watching this and think Jo your eyes are more squinty than usual it's because it's just turned 7am here. ⁓
Jess (02:31)
Yeah.
I know.
It's not Jess's accent that she's trying to figure out.
Naman Julka-Anderson (02:52)
But
Jo, you've been so excited about it, you woke up at 4am, so...
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (02:55)
very excited. I've been giddy about Jess coming on. But Jess, thank you so much about sharing your own personal experiences. And I suppose it must be true testament to the experience that you had that you did then decide to go into oncology because I would imagine having a cancer diagnosis, you know, for a lot of people, they never want to hear the word cancer ever again. And then to actually decide to go into the profession.
Jess (03:18)
Mmm.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (03:21)
What was your initial experience like at the age of 15? Because I could imagine that's very different maybe to the experience that you've had more ⁓ recently? ⁓
Jess (03:29)
⁓ absolutely.
Like I think that's something that the most recent experience has really given me the opportunity to look back and reflect at that cancer, to put it bluntly. Yeah, 15 years old and I guess for some perspective, I grew up quite rural, so my parents were dairy farmers.
They lived quite far away from where I went to school. So during the week I lived with my grandparents on their farm so that I could get to school. And then the weekend I would go home. And I still vividly remember finding this little lump in my neck and going to school and showing my friends. Like it just stands out to me. at the time I thought, nothing of it. Never in your wildest dreams do you think this little lump that you're showing to everybody is gonna turn out to be cancer. So yeah, I think.
I look back at that now and I kind of think I really did not ever think that the gravity of the situation really kind of fully absorbed into the 15 year old Jess because I think, you know, I was just like, okay, this is just something I have to do really. And I think when you get a diagnosis and you don't feel unwell at the time, it's just like, this is what you've got. You're hearing the word cancer is obviously, yes, very scary.
And as a 15 year old, the first thing I thought about was like, ⁓ I'm going to lose my hair. The world is ending, you know? And those are the things that I focused on. I was lucky enough that for whatever reason, my hair didn't fall out. So I didn't have that, you know, that aesthetic of being a cancer patient, which although surface level sounds very awful to say, those are the kinds of things of the 15 year old that you cared about
you know, because you're going to stand out and look different to everyone. So, you know, very thankful for that. And I think probably more so it was just the side effects of the treatment that it's really hard to kind of compute that when you feel like there's nothing wrong with you. Yeah, so the chemotherapy was horrific. I really don't have many nice things to say about that experience. And then obviously,
not that I would ever say radiation therapy is an easier treatment, but from my experience, I coped with it a lot better. With chemo, I had like anticipatory nausea, so I would start, you know, being sick before I even got to the hospital just with the thought of how I was going to be. And I think radiation therapy, it was the staff and just the level of comfort and care that you just get day in, day out.
⁓ And they just, it just felt like they were your friends as a 15 year old. They were just so, maybe it was a little bit awkward. I was quite obviously young and they weren't used to having many young patients where I was treated. I eventually went back and trained as a radiation therapist and worked there. And a lot of the staff have said to me a couple of times, you know, like it was such a novelty when you came in because you were so young and youthful and had all this energy. I was like, well.
That's nice to know. yeah, and
Naman Julka-Anderson (06:34)
Did
Jess (06:34)
that in itself was quite an experience going back to work where people knew who I was, because only a few years later. So yeah, it was quite interesting. And then lots of conversation as there were always is with RTs and, you know, what are you going to, what do you want to do when you leave school and all those kinds of things. And at that stage, I just thought, I actually didn't know what I wanted to do. I think I thought I was going to study law
and history and here I am. So yeah, they talked about radiation therapy as a profession, how wonderful it was and for travel and you know the opportunities that there are and the patient interaction and which obviously I experienced so it kind of just became a no-brainer for me. Yeah.
Naman Julka-Anderson (07:18)
Thank you for sharing your honest reflections, I think, especially around the body confidence as a teenager. That's quite important to kind of acknowledge. I was just wondering, before you were diagnosed with cancer, did you know much about cancer or radiotherapy?
Jess (07:21)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Yeah.
No, at all. that's nobody in my family, I think, aside from at that point, my dad's grandfather. So my great grandfather had died of bowel cancer, but that was it. yeah, no. And even to this day, I'm very few relatives that have been through it. So, yeah.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (07:52)
Jess, can you tell us a little bit about your more recent diagnosis and kind of what that experience was like?
Jess (07:57)
Yeah, absolutely. Very different. I was quite fortunate that when I came back, it goes, a little story to this, think. When I came back from living in the UK at age of about 25, I came back to work in the department where I had been before and also where I was treated. So I saw my radiation oncologist quite frequently, just, you know, and he was a colleague by that point.
And he just stopped me in the corridor one day and he said to me, I've just been in an MDM and you know, there's a lot of recommendations for long-term screening for breast cancer for previous Hodgkin's patients. So we're going back quite a few years now. And when I was discharged from oncology with Hodgkin's, there was no long-term follow-up. I had nothing in place. So that was kind of like a real, I look back now, think that was
Luckily, just this point in time where right place, right time. So he then just initiated a referral and I commenced like screening from the age of about 26. So I had annual MRIs and ⁓ mammograms. And so, you know, I feel very thankful that I was on a path where my breast cancer could be picked up quite early. I did find a lump in my breast and so
I knew that I had a scan coming up in about three weeks time and I could sometimes find the lump and I sometimes couldn't so I thought, oh, you know, I didn't think much of it. And, you know, had the grace of being able to say, oh yeah, I've got an MRI coming up if it's anything, they'll find it. So I had the MRI and then was referred for an urgent ultrasound guided biopsy which
ended up being inconclusive. They couldn't biopsy because the ultrasound wasn't very definitive. So I left the ultrasound thinking, yay, it's nothing to worry about. This is great, you know. But thankfully the radiologist was very good in that she wanted to close the loop. And she said, I think just to make sure we're happy, we need to do an MR guide of biopsy. And then that's how I got my diagnosis. So it was quite,
when I say prolonged, it felt prolonged because just the waiting and the waiting for each kind of step. And then I remember getting a phone call on a Friday afternoon at 4.30 to say, the breast specialist would like to see you on Monday morning at 8.30, can you please come in? And I'm like, sometimes,
like I enjoy that our profession gives us a lot of knowledge and there's a lot of, you know, understanding the system is great because it takes a lot of the burden away. But then I'm like, I'm not happy that I know so much that I know that if I'm getting a call to come in on a Monday, it's not necessarily going to be, everything's fine. So yeah, that was really hard that weekend of just sitting there with my thoughts and thinking, what is this going to be and spiraling. So
challenging and that I now was in a very different life stage. Having kids and being a wife and having a career and all these things. So the mind went lots of places, that's for sure. Yeah, and then so we had that we were given the given the diagnosis. My husband was with me at the time and I think as much as I knew what she was going to tell me,
The hardest bit was probably...
I think like seeing my husband, I know that sounds weird. I think in the back of my mind my whole life I'd kind of almost not prepared for this, but I always knew there was a possibility. And I think when you're the patient, you're the one going through it. So you know there's steps being taken to get you where you need to go. then you have everyone sitting on the outside. that was really hard for me because I kind of thought
you know, how is he feeling? And I just, you know, barely trying to hold it together. And you know, partners want to be strong for the one, the other, the other. It was just not a nice situation at all. So, yeah, that was quite, quite intense to go through. And then I think probably the hardest part of all of that, and I don't think I'm alone in this by any stretch, was just the waiting. Once I knew that I had a plan,
and I knew what needed to happen. It was just this period of waiting and trying to just carry on with normal life. And it was, you know, this time of year. So for us here in New Zealand, it's summer and getting ready for Christmas and the kids are finishing school and everyone's in a great mood, which was nice because in some ways it was a good distraction. But then on the other hand, it was very, very lonely because you kind of
I didn't tell lots of people immediately, I needed just time to process it. yeah, was, it kind of, I look back at that time and I think there were so many great things that we did at that time. But there was always this underlying kind of weight that I'm just walking around with this breast cancer that I just want gone so I can move on.
Yeah, hard. And then just the general conversations when people come up and they say, ⁓ what are your plans for the summer? And those kinds of things. No one really teaches you how to answer those kinds of things. yeah, so very, very different, I have to say. Very different.
Naman Julka-Anderson (13:31)
Can I ask Jess how... No, it's really powerful to hear it and I think you've probably touched on every angle of mental health side and conversations and things that lots of people talk to us on Rad Chat about. I think patients and carers, the dynamic is very different, as you said. Lots of patients I'm sure we've seen in radiotherapy, radiation therapy, they're in it, they just want to get on with it, take their medications, go home, have a sleep, whereas the family are the ones who are like rallying.
Jess (13:31)
Sorry, of talking. Yeah.
Hmm.
Mm.
Yeah.
Naman Julka-Anderson (13:59)
What do need to cook? How do I need to get there? I need to think about all these other things and it's quite difficult for people to put those thoughts together. How has your husband kind of coped with it now, I guess?
Jess (14:00)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think, you know, like with my treatment, I was very lucky that I was found early and I chose to be radical with my approach. I always knew that if this was a possibility that I wanted to have a bilateral mastectomy. So I was lucky that I could have that and a reconstruction at the same time. So it was really big surgery, obviously, and
all the anxiety going into it was very palpable in our house without a doubt. And then I think the nice part of it was that the healing and the recovery is so, once you're physically recovered for me, that was the hard, hard part because I'm such an active person to just see me not be able to do anything. That was challenging because he then carries the weight of everything
you know, all the responsibility, the kids, everything, feeding me, helping me shower, helping me get out of bed, helping me roll over, you know, all that stuff. So it's a lot for them. But I think, you know, we're very good with our communication. We talked about a lot of stuff. And, you know, I think that...
Now we're in a good place but there's definitely still times and things that trigger off those moments. I'm not even a year post surgery and I recently had some more surgery for like corrective stuff and just that whole like going back into the hospital again I think for both of us we realised wow this is still a thing you know because all those feelings came back again of you know the last time
even though this was for something that was maybe a bit more positive or not so traumatic. But yeah, it's very different.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (15:58)
It's so interesting to hear you kind of articulate just those psychological emotions that we know patients experience, but also being an RTT as well. I think you kind of know what to expect. You know a lot of information and I don't always necessarily know that's a good thing or a bad thing. It's hard, isn't it? Just did it change you as an RTT? Do you see things differently because you've had cancer, not just once, but twice?
Jess (16:06)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, 100%. Yeah.
⁓
Yeah,
I just got goosebumps when you said that, Jo, because I think...
I'm actually quite like sometimes a little bit speechless at how much it's changed my perspective and things. And I want to say these things with sensitivity, but you know, as a radiation therapist, I think we would, I think we'd struggle to find anyone that does ⁓ the profession that doesn't have a caring nature. They didn't, they got into it because of people and how much they enjoy being around people or looking after people
either one of those. And I think
Throughout your career, you change your opinions of what you love the most about your job. For me, was always the patients without a doubt. I can't pick any other part of the profession that I liked more. But I know when I look back at what I did in my career, you develop a sense of complacency in terms of what you think the level of care is that you're providing and then what
what the patient actually sees. And yeah, there's been some moments, because obviously I'm no longer clinical and I'm with Elekta, but I spend quite a lot of time in departments. And there's been a couple of instances where I've had to catch myself from wanting to say things.
It's not that I don't want to say it because I don't believe it to be true, it's just, know, Jess, it's not time and the place to say this. And it's just little things, you know, like I think sometimes we get so caught up in the technology that, you know, everything's moving at a fast pace. Everything's going quickly. We want things faster, more efficient. We want this, we want that. And for good reason.
I sometimes get the feeling when I'm around people in the clinic or certain situations, I'm like, I don't want that to overtake actually what you're here for as the patient. And so I feel like a real inner turmoil about that quite a lot these days, I think about, know, shorter fractionations mean we've got less and less opportunity to develop a relationship and make
people feel comfortable. And it doesn't have to be big overt things. It's just the small tiny little things that make people actually feel like human, not just laying on a bed in a big cold room with cameras glaring at you, you know? So it has changed me. don't think it's, if I went back to the clinic, what would it change about my practice? I think I'd probably just be more aware and more present. But I think it's, yeah, it's just good to take
take stock of what's actually important.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (19:15)
I would imagine for any RTT's, therapeutic radiographers listening around the world, they can maybe reflect upon their practice about potentially their obsession around accuracy, reproducibility, waiting times. You know, I certainly know from my own experience and from working clinically and also, you know, talking to colleagues who are still working day in, day out with long waiting lists.
Jess (19:33)
Yeah.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (19:44)
knowing that the less time they spend with patients and the quicker they get them through, the more patients they'll be able to treat. And it's such a confliction isn't it, because you are constantly thinking, gosh we've got this many patients in a day to treat. And sometimes I just think, but the impact, the other end, is something that a lot of RTTs don't get
Jess (19:51)
Yeah, that's right. Absolutely. Yeah.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (20:11)
to necessarily see and I certainly never ever appreciated and it's only through doing rad chat that we get to hear from so many patients now who afterwards have lots of questions, don't really know what they've gone through, don't even realise why they've had radiotherapy even though they've gone through the whole consent, the whole treatment, they will still contact us going why have I had to have radiotherapy? You know, it's just, it's really eye opening I think.
Jess (20:13)
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah. Do you know? Yeah.
Yeah, I even found that after just having my mastectomy. It wasn't until after everything had happened, well one, it all caught up with me emotionally and well, what was that? But two, was then was afterwards, I was like, what were my other options? But not really, but you like, cause I, you know, you put your trust in the professional, you know, my surgeon straight out said to me, you're a
perfect candidate for this treatment. I was like, great, cool, let's do it. Never once did it occur to me to say, well, was there something else? It actually has opened my eyes into how much breast cancer just in itself is such a complex disease. And I probably never really appreciated that as a radiation therapist until now. Because I think we look at
the patient so we're so focused on them when they're with us and then we also know you know ⁓ you've got a great outcome based on what your tumor staging is but you forget about all the other life that happens and all the other things that those women or whoever are going through in their life and then you throw in their hormone therapy and that's a whole other fun kettle of fish. Yeah it's just so multifaceted and just
It has really opened my eyes also to just how individual all of our treatments are. And we know that as RTs, but a really good friend of mine, a colleague actually was diagnosed not long after me and her whole journey has just been like, well, I feel very thankful and you're constantly comparing like, gosh, I'm so lucky, I'm so lucky. look, she's had to go through that. But it doesn't necessarily mean
that what I went through wasn't hard, but it's just so different for everybody. And that's been heightened, I think, for me and the people that I've met along the way and in different groups and things. And yeah, it's just such a complex thing.
Naman Julka-Anderson (22:50)
Jess, I know at the beginning you said you felt nervous because it's a bit like an interview, so I've got a little bit of an interview question, a three part one. So obviously you've been very honest and sharing your reflections of your two cancer diagnosis. What's the best interaction you've had with a healthcare professional? What's the worst one you've had and what would you change? Like one thing of each.
Jess (22:54)
Yeah. Okay, go for it.
Yeah, that's a good one.
Yeah, such a good question. I've actually got two good interactions, well I've got plenty of good interactions, but two that have stood out to me for different reasons. One was when I was having my MR guided biopsy. Well, that's an experience in itself. So I like to explain it obviously like battleships on your boob.
It's about laying prone for two hours, I mean so much fun and then squishing your boob and you know they explain it like battleships and so great, it was a great explanation for me. I was just more interested and I wish I could watch the procedure because it just sounded so interesting but I couldn't. Anyway, it didn't go as smoothly as I'd hoped because of the location of the lump and they had to go you know all these different angles and I was laying there for two hours and
you know, it's just small things when you're in that situation, like, because you're just really alone with your thoughts and hearing their talk and like little things like the radiographers just having always coming and putting their hand on your back and just saying you're doing really well. Like, I know we do that as RTs and I know that it's just so, but man, like, I just feel like my whole body would just kind of like just relax
when you feel that little human connection and it's never really occurred to me in any other instance except for that one because clearly I was maybe a bit more on edge and also the uncertainty and I reflect on that and I think, you know, and this is maybe like a profession joke that, know, whenever people say what do you do and you say you're a rationalist, they're like, you take x-rays, it's like no, I don't, you know, but I think like to give them
they're due, radiographers are looking after people at like the most vulnerable part of their journey before when everything's unknown and it never really occurred to me until it was me there again. And so that for me was, yeah, I think,
important because it just goes to show that it's those tiny human interactions that can make the world of difference to how a person feels. So that's one of them. And the other one was when I first sat with my medical oncologist to talk about options after my surgery and I knew her because I'd worked with her previously and she's lovely and so nice and she sat and she said, look, I'm going to just
talk to you as if you've never worked in anything to do with oncology, which I was happy about because I purposely did no reading. so she went through everything. And I was before that, she sat down, the introductions, who she was and said she was going to do that. And then the very first thing she did after that was turn to my husband and say, and how are you? And that was, she's the first and only
medical professional to really acknowledge him and genuinely ask how he's coping with things. I like, yeah, I just can't under, you can't underestimate the value of that. I don't know. For me, it was huge. And ⁓ that really stuck with me. And it was important for him too, I think, because, you know, so often they sit there and just listen and
just like another body in the room. And yeah, so that was really special. And then what was the other thing I had to, oh, not so good. Yeah, something a little bit negative. When I was in hospital recovering from my mastectomy, I, you you,
Naman Julka-Anderson (26:51)
Kinda kinda don't want to ask but something negative and something you would change.
Jess (27:08)
I was in there for a couple of nights, so obviously through the night you have night nurses that change. I remember one nurse coming in and she...
I don't know if she just hadn't read my notes or what, but she made a comment and she said, so if you just decided to have your breasts off, what did she say? Like, I don't think she realised I had cancer, let's put it that way. And the comment she made was almost as though like, ⁓ she hadn't realised that what I had done was because I was unwell.
⁓ And it was really, I felt really like it was a little bit judged because I'm like, am I going to get this all the time now? Because I have reconstructions of people just going to think, she's had a boob job. I've got a good story about that too. But yeah, it was very, that kind of was enough for me to remember, I guess, and keep going back to it.
And it kind of grates me because I know as therapists we do our best to know everything about patients before we interact with them, understand what we're dealing with. And so just little things like that when it makes you feel like, did you even look at my notes? Do you even know why I'm here? know, just felt a little bit dismissed, but yeah.
I'm sure there's others, but those are the only ones that are coming today.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (28:21)
No it is
really interesting because they are small things but that have made such a big impact you know human connection and just you know stereotyping people that potentially you know that unconscious bias and comments but that make a real impact and last with people and I think it's really important for healthcare professionals to just have that in the back of their minds. ⁓
Jess (28:29)
Yeah!
Yeah. Yeah.
Yes.
Yes.
100%. Yeah.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (28:52)
And it is hard.
I certainly reflect back on things that potentially I did or said and I think now it's cringe worthy. But I think, God, you know what, maybe, yeah, ⁓ yeah. But it is so important to just appreciate that those comments, things that you've done can have that lasting impact. So thank you for sharing.
Jess (28:59)
I know, we all do it. We all do it. Yeah.
Yeah.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (29:21)
Jess, in terms of kind of long term side effects, other than obviously having a secondary
breast cancer, have you had to cope with any other long-term side effects from radiotherapy or chemotherapy?
Jess (29:32)
⁓
Yeah, so from my Hodgkin's lymphoma, I had a radiation-induced hypothyroidism. So that was diagnosed quite early on and I just take medication for it. I've had a few like strange BCCs and things removed from kind of like my hairline and that. That was another example of just
you know, how much I feel like if can't advocate or understand what your medical history is, it's really challenging because at the time when I saw a specialist for those, they were really like concerned about my age and that I had these BCCs in these strange areas. you know, I just said, well, I have had, you know, mantle radiation and so, but you know, those little tiny things. And I don't think I'm alone at all in my experience with healthcare.
organisations and that, you kind of have to be your own advocate a lot of the time, which is scary, but also, again, makes me thankful for, you know, the medical literacy that we all have from our professions and things. otherwise, no, else that I can think of. Yeah.
Naman Julka-Anderson (30:59)
Obviously being a radiation therapist and your diagnosis and stuff, how do you manage with the fear of recurrence? Because that's something we hear a lot about.
Jess (31:06)
Yeah, that's a good question.
Because someone actually asked me after I actually did a presentation to a branch study day not too long ago. One of the questions was, you know, now that I talked about the fact that I had this fear of having breast cancer hanging over me my whole life. And they said, do you feel like that fear has gone now that it's over and done with? And I was like, ⁓
I probably hadn't thought about that just yet. But to be fair, I think it's one of those things that I don't think it will ever go away. And certainly I have just had a like an appointment with a genetic counselor to have some genetic testing done just because, know, although they are 99% sure that my
breast cancer was radiation induced, they could also still check to see I was only 39 when I was diagnosed. And although I don't have any family history, it might just be interesting to know. And so, you know, that raises all those questions as well as if they do find something and you're at predisposed to X, Y or Z, how will you feel? I just think it's just knowledge is power in a lot of ways. So I think, you know,
having that is, yeah, okay, it's still a fear of mine, but I just try and do what I can to live a healthy and good life now. I don't feel like I can continue to live in fear for my whole life, because it's just, yeah. It doesn't go away though, especially when it comes to those times of the year when everything happened, or all those little anniversaries that never quite go away, or...
you know, yeah.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (32:52)
Thank you.
Jess (32:52)
I don't know if I answered your question. ⁓
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (32:54)
No, you absolutely did. But also
as well, think it's again important for us to recognise just that when you get a cancer diagnosis and you hear those words, you are changed forever. You always have. You know, like I don't, I always describe it and you know, I know that prognostically my cancer was, you know, really, my outcomes were really good. But still, you know, when you put the washing in the washing machine and you know it's in there,
Jess (33:04)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (33:22)
and you know you've got to get it out but for
Jess (33:23)
Yeah.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (33:25)
whatever reason you think you know I've got to go and walk the dog I've got to go and sort out the dinner but always in the back of your mind you're like ⁓ that washing is still in the washing machine and I know that for some people listening they may think well that's you know really trivializing what cancer is but it is like always having that one thing in the back of your mind that you just go that headache or that lump you're like it's just it's
Jess (33:29)
Yeah.
Yes. It is.
No, just stays with you.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (33:51)
yeah, it is just something that you always overthink, I think.
Jess (33:55)
Yeah,
and it's funny because my mum has said to me once before, she's like, oh, you know, your whole life is about cancer. And I'm like, well, no, it doesn't mean in a bad way, but you know, like I trained or had cancer and then trained as a radiation therapist, I work in oncology. I, you know, when I spent a lot of time volunteering for a charity called Camp Quality, I don't know if you guys have something in the UK, it's for young children that have had cancer and just like.
And I'm like, yeah, okay, but it's not catchy, mum. You know, like I'm not gonna catch it from somebody. So yeah, I don't know. is, I will say though, like as much as I knew that there was always that, you know, risk for me in the back of my mind, I definitely went through this, down the spiral of like, well, why the heck did I have to be the one that got it again? Why couldn't I be in the percentage that didn't, you know? So you definitely.
That whole roller coaster of emotions really surprised me because I feel like I'm doing exactly what the textbooks tell us that patients go through. It was a ride and it still is somewhat. And with hormone, with tamoxifen, sorry I can't even say the word, living on that is a ride in itself.
yeah.
Naman Julka-Anderson (35:23)
So what do you do for Elekta now?
Jess (35:25)
So I'm an account manager for New Zealand. So I look after all the customer install base here in New Zealand, which is great. I actually started with Elekta in software support. So I did that. then I kind of, the previous account manager for New Zealand kind of said, I think you'd be good at this. And I was like, I don't know that I'm interested in that.
But she's like, what have you got to lose? Give it a go. And yeah, I really don't look back. I I love the interaction with people that obviously I've known for a long time. New Zealand's a very small place and we have one university that trains radiation therapy students. So we're a small, tiny profession, but yeah, a great little part of the world to look after. Yeah.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (36:15)
beautiful. I do remember, I can't remember where we were, Naman, where we were watching a speaker who comes from New Zealand and they were sharing lots of imagery and I was just like I want to move.
Jess (36:26)
you'll have to come. Yes! Maybe we should get you down here for one of our conferences.
Naman Julka-Anderson (36:31)
Thanks Jess, you
send the Elekta jet over, we'll be over.
Jess (36:35)
Yeah, I might.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (36:35)
Ha!
Jess (36:36)
I'm gonna think, I'm gonna look into that.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (36:40)
Rad Chat on tour does New Zealand. We would love that. We would love that. Jess, in terms of kind of your work with Elekta do you kind of impart your knowledge of being a cancer patient on things that they're doing at Elekta? Because I think again that's so important isn't it, is bringing together the clinical sector, industry, patient perspectives.
Jess (36:40)
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah.
Yes.
100%.
I my passion for my job and my passion to represent my, I say customers, I feel weird calling them that, but obviously you know what I'm talking about, is reflected in how I advocate for them and what they want. I know I'm just a small fish in a big ocean, but especially in Australia and New Zealand, I think
one of the key roles of all of us in those positions is to really be the voice of customers because, you know, it's one thing for big organisations to be able to get out there and see what customers want. But sometimes in this little part of the world, we get forgotten. And yeah, I think that's something that I'm very passionate about is making sure that what our people on the ground are saying is heard. And I think probably
in terms of my patient experience, it comes out sometimes maybe unexpectedly. I had an example the other day and it was actually with a customer because we all have things that we desire in radiation therapy in terms of equipment or what we'd like to see. And one of the comments was about the speed of gantry is going, why can't they just go really fast and this and the other thing
and it would just be good and I just said, but would the patient like that? I don't think I would, you know, like, so I, and I feel like I have that kind of rapport with most of the customers I deal with. I feel like a lot of them I'm very close with and I can be quite honest like that. So I'm happy to challenge those types of opinions
whether I'm right in doing so and my elector hat, but I do feel passionately about it. Like at the end of the day, it's patients that we should be focusing on. yeah, that's a wee example maybe.
Naman Julka-Anderson (38:52)
I think it's good because that's what your company would want, I think if I worked for the NHS, it's clearly about patients. If you worked for a charity, it's clearly about patients. That's what's important and I think I'm sure your clients would see it as a benefit. Your clients, customers, as a benefit as opposed to anything else. And it's probably nice that you can be like, what about the patient? I think anytime we go to ESTRO or big conferences and stuff, hear about this amazing innovation, but you just think...
Jess (38:55)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Naman Julka-Anderson (39:21)
is the patient going to like that? And I think that's something when you talked about hypofractionation, that's definitely something at the minute. I'm just like, but I want to see my patients. We don't get enough reviews anymore with patients anyway. And when they're finished, especially people who have breast radiotherapy, five fractions, it's the two, three weeks afterwards that it hits them. You they've gone from surgery to five fractions and then done. They don't even get a follow-up sometimes. There's just your next mammogram. That's it. I just, yeah.
Jess (39:23)
I know.
I know. I know.
Yeah.
Yes.
An eye.
I know. Yeah. It blows my
mind. I think it's such a different profession to when I trained, you know? I just... Well, it's not different profession, but yeah, that whole, the patient care element is... It's not disappearing, but it is becoming so much more challenging because of where things are now. But even as little things like...
This is another example of my role in Elekta and then someone making a comment and it's all very well known, for an Elekta machine you need to go onto the room to push the XVI out of way. And I get that that's an efficiency thing and I wholeheartedly understand where people come from when they talk about the challenges faced with that. But then the other side of me is like,
see that as a moment to connect with a patient that's lying on the bed in a big empty room for 10 minutes of your day and all you need to do is just say to that patient you're doing really well, touch them on the foot, don't even touch them if you don't want to. But just those little moments, all those opportunities for connection, you might not see as important but for that person they're going to remember this for the rest of their life
and laying there in a big open room with a machine moving around it and you're not talking to them except for through a microphone. It's yeah, I know that sounds quite harsh but it's just little things like that where I'm like but it's a chance for you to make them feel like they're okay. That was something that I remember I recently did it, worked with someone to like review some patient education information for AYA, ⁓
people going through radiation therapy etc. and she asked me about my experiences as a 15 year old and I said you know one of the things what do we say so often nice and still nice and still so as if you're laying there nice and still okay I'm nice and still am I nice and still enough for my no I think I moved I think I moved I think I moved but those little things like you're doing really well okay I'm fine I didn't just you know ruin my treatment
and I know it's so simple, it's just, yeah, those are the things that have probably been a lot more heightened for me since having the opportunity to reflect back in the last 20 something years of my life. Yeah.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (42:10)
Jess, think Elekta are very lucky to have you because when you're talking about being an RTT you are so passionate about it, so they are very lucky that they got you.
Jess (42:19)
⁓ thanks Jo.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Naman Julka-Anderson (42:29)
Jess, we're coming to the end
of the episode. We always like to end with top tips. As you've already said, you're a super fan, you knew this was coming. Do you have any other top tips for our listeners, please?
Jess (42:33)
Brilliant.
haha
Yeah, I think one of the things out of everything that I would say to maybe people in the profession or people entering the profession or those that have been there for a long time is that like It's quite easy to feel like you see so many patients day in, day out
I think one of the things, and I think we all know this, but we should remind ourselves maybe a little more often is you might not remember every single patient that you see or treat or interact with, but they will always remember you and the way you interacted with them. So, you know, even if it's just one little thing you do to make them feel good, or even unfortunately if you do it bad, they'll hold onto that for the rest of their lives.
Yeah, I think if we just go into interactions with people remembering that, I mean, you don't have to change every single person's life. It's just the little things, I think. Yeah.
That would be it.
Naman Julka-Anderson (43:36)
Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on, it's been a very powerful episode.
Jess (43:41)
Thanks guys, really appreciate it. I feel little bit starstruck.
Naman Julka-Anderson (43:47)
No, not at all. Thanks for being our first guest from New Zealand as well.
Jess (43:49)
Look at Jo, she's like, no.
Am I the first from New Zealand? I might need to get on to that and sort some more. ⁓ thank you.
Naman Julka-Anderson (43:55)
I think so. Yeah, maybe we'll send you a certificate. Or maybe
a Rad Chat t-shirt, a duvet cover, something.
Jess (44:04)
I'll
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (44:05)
Not with the postal prices these days, we don't have any money!
Jess (44:06)
get the note. No, I know. It's so true. Yeah, absolutely.
Naman Julka-Anderson (44:09)
⁓ good,
good point. We'll see if anyone's flying that way soon.
Well yeah, thanks everyone for listening to Rad Chat with me, Naman Julka-Anderson and Jo McNamara. So our next guest to feature will be Annie Prescott as part of our Education and Workforce Development series talking about Brachytherapy education in Therapeutic Radiography. So thanks all for listening and take care.
Naman Julka-Anderson (44:33)
You can use this episode as part of our free, continual professional development, accredited content, which offers flexible learning that fits your busy schedule. Just check out the show notes for the reflective questions, links to literature and resources, and a link to complete the form to receive your accredited certificate.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (44:49)
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Naman Julka-Anderson (45:59)
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Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (46:15)
It goes without saying that we can't achieve this alone. It takes all of us working together to create real change. That's why we value every voice and every contribution. We ask that you listen and learn, spread the word, share your story and if you need to, contact us.
Naman Julka-Anderson (47:31)
If you like what we're doing, buy us a coffee, keep us caffeinated, go to our website to find out more. Thank you all for listening and take care.