Over the last few years, many of us have experienced immense chasms in our relationships. Politically, socially, racially, and relationally, our world feels incredibly divided. Sometimes, it can feel impossible to bridge the distance between us and the people who don't look or think like us.
To help us explore this topic, we welcome Latasha Morrison, a distinguished author and nonprofit founder widely known for her transformative work in fostering racial reconciliation and unity. Latasha joined Lindsey and Mickenzie for an honest conversation about the power of building bridges in our relationships, doing our own work, and confronting systems that oppress and marginalize BIPOC communities. Through her writing and advocacy, Latasha is a beacon of hope, igniting conversations, challenging social norms, and empowering others to take action toward a more inclusive and equitable world.
Latasha founded the nonprofit Be the Bridge in 2016 to encourage racial reconciliation among all ethnicities, promote racial unity in America, and equip others to do the same. Her new book, Brown Faces, White Spaces: Confronting Systemic Racism to Bring Healing and Restoration, traces the origins of systemic racism in America and illuminates why it persists today. In the book, she equips and calls readers to break the systems that have for so long marginalized the BIPOC communities.
In this episode:
4:24 - How faith organizations can create inclusive spaces for marginalized communities
38:16 - Why we need to talk about uncomfortable realities of racism and systematic oppression
45:09 - Regulating our emotions in uncomfortable conversations
Discover the Right Onsite Experience For You Whether you’re in a challenging season or just want to learn and grow, Onsite has an experience to meet you right where you are and guide you to the more you’re seeking.
We pair the finest hospitality with the best clinical minds in the country to guide you toward lasting transformation. Our holistic care is thoughtfully designed to help you connect to yourself and the community you form at Onsite.
You deserve healing. We're here to guide you! Start the process today or connect with our Admissions team at 1-800-341-7432 to discover the right experience for you!
Chapters
Over the last few years, many of us have experienced immense chasms in our relationships. Politically, socially, racially, and relationally, our world feels incredibly divided. Sometimes, it can feel impossible to bridge the distance between us and the people who don't look or think like us.
To help us explore this topic, we welcome Latasha Morrison, a distinguished author and nonprofit founder widely known for her transformative work in fostering racial reconciliation and unity. Latasha joined Lindsey and Mickenzie for an honest conversation about the power of building bridges in our relationships, doing our own work, and confronting systems that oppress and marginalize BIPOC communities. Through her writing and advocacy, Latasha is a beacon of hope, igniting conversations, challenging social norms, and empowering others to take action toward a more inclusive and equitable world.
Latasha founded the nonprofit Be the Bridge in 2016 to encourage racial reconciliation among all ethnicities, promote racial unity in America, and equip others to do the same. Her new book, Brown Faces, White Spaces: Confronting Systemic Racism to Bring Healing and Restoration, traces the origins of systemic racism in America and illuminates why it persists today. In the book, she equips and calls readers to break the systems that have for so long marginalized the BIPOC communities.
In this episode:
4:24 - How faith organizations can create inclusive spaces for marginalized communities
38:16 - Why we need to talk about uncomfortable realities of racism and systematic oppression
45:09 - Regulating our emotions in uncomfortable conversations
Discover the Right Onsite Experience For You Whether you’re in a challenging season or just want to learn and grow, Onsite has an experience to meet you right where you are and guide you to the more you’re seeking.
We pair the finest hospitality with the best clinical minds in the country to guide you toward lasting transformation. Our holistic care is thoughtfully designed to help you connect to yourself and the community you form at Onsite.
You deserve healing. We're here to guide you! Start the process today or connect with our Admissions team at 1-800-341-7432 to discover the right experience for you!
Creators & Guests
Host
Hannah Warren
Creative Marketing Director at Onsite
Host
Lindsey Nobles
Vice President of Marketing at Onsite
Host
Mickenzie Vought
Editorial and Community Director at Onsite
Editor
Podcircle
Premium podcast services for busy people and organizations. Visit Podcircle.com to learn more.
What is Living Centered Podcast?
So many of us go through life feeling out of touch with ourselves, others, and the world around us. We feel disconnected, overwhelmed, distracted, and uncertain of how to find the clarity, purpose, and direction we so deeply, so authentically, desire. The Living Centered Podcast in an invitation to another way of living.
Every episode, we sit down with mental health experts, artists, and friends for a practical and honest conversation about how to pursue a more centered life—rediscovering, reclaiming, and rooting in who we truly are.
Latasha Morrison:
We have to remember that our experiences are not universal. What you've experienced is not what everyone has experienced. Your interactions are not everyone's interactions. The lens that you see through have shaped you. I'm looking through a totally different lens that has shaped me.
Latasha Morrison:
And so we have the whole space to understand that your truth is not my truth. And so I think when we can make space for that, and we do that all the time, as it relates to relationships, we don't do that in our country. We change the story. We shift the narrative. My experience is the universal experience.
Latasha Morrison:
If it's not bothering me, it shouldn't bother you. And we don't build relationships like that, not healthy ones in our life. So why would we think, like that, not healthy ones in our life, so why would we think when it comes to race that that works? We know it doesn't work. It's just that we wanna stay comfortable because this is just a very uncomfortable conversation.
Mickenzie Vought:
Welcome to the Living Centered Podcast, a show from the humans at On-site. If you're new to this space and just beginning this journey, we hope these episodes are an encouragement, a resource, and an introduction to a new way of being. If you're well into your journey and perhaps even made a pit stop at On-site's living center program or one of our other experiences, we hope these episodes are a nudge back toward the depth, connection, and authenticity you found. In this series, we sat down with some of our favorite experts and emotional health sojourners to explore the relationships that make up our lives. From our friendships to our families or families of choice to our relationship with ourselves, Part practical resource and part honest storytelling that will have you silently nodding me too.
Mickenzie Vought:
This podcast was curated with you in mind. Let's dive in.
Lindsey Nobles:
Welcome everyone to another episode of the Living Centered podcast. Today, Mackenzie and I talked to a good friend of mine, Latasha, Tasha as I call her, Morrison, Latasha runs an organization called Be the Bridge that she formed about a decade ago now. And I served as a board member for a little bit for this organization. But, really, what I love about Tasha and Be the Bridge's work is it is about relationship building and how sort of out of our differences, we become stronger and more beautiful. And so I think that as we think expansively about the relationships in our life, this is a really important conversation to add to the mix.
Mickenzie Vought:
Yeah. I have respected, Latasha from afar for a long time, and we've been trying to make this interview happen. And I think the fact that we get to do it in this particular series is really special, and I'm excited to lean into this conversation. I was appreciative of the way that Latasha showed up and just shared all the ways that being a bridge builder has been in her DNA and the way that she shows up in the world and how she invites other people to do the same And to lean into the conversations and find places where we can say the hard things we can say the hard truth. I think that's what I took from the conversation is she said some hard things but said it in such a a kind and curious and inviting way.
Mickenzie Vought:
We often say we don't call people out. We call people in, and I felt called in throughout the whole conversation. So I hope that you enjoy it and I'm so grateful for the way she shows up in the world and I hope that you'll check out her new brand new book, Brown Faces, White Spaces, Confronting Systemic Racism to Bring Healing and Restoration. Let's meet Latasha.
Lindsey Nobles:
We are here today with my friend, Tasha, Latasha Morrison. Hello. Tasha, we have known each other now for a decade.
Latasha Morrison:
Yes. It's been a while.
Lindsey Nobles:
Isn't that crazy?
Latasha Morrison:
Been a while. It and it's such a funny way how we met too. It's like crazy. But yeah. We're getting young.
Latasha Morrison:
We're getting young.
Lindsey Nobles:
We're getting younger and better, stronger. We started out as kinda Internet friends, and, I was involved with a conference and a women's kind of movement called the If Gathering. And, Tasha, you came that 1st year
Latasha Morrison:
Mhmm.
Lindsey Nobles:
And you found yourself in a sea of white women.
Latasha Morrison:
Yes. Yes.
Lindsey Nobles:
In an event curated by white women?
Latasha Morrison:
Yes.
Lindsey Nobles:
Subconsciously or unconsciously curated for white women?
Latasha Morrison:
Yes.
Lindsey Nobles:
And you were so brave and so kind and so generous about just speaking up and saying, hey. There's a few of us here that don't look like the rest of you, And let me help you figure out how to make this a more inclusive space.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah.
Lindsey Nobles:
And I just still am, like, choked up about how grateful I am for how you have, at cost to yourself, like, continued to try to speak truth and life and love into spaces to make them more open and inclusive and safe for more people.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah.
Lindsey Nobles:
And so that was some of the genesis of the work of your organization, be the bridge, which I'm a huge supporter of, and just amazing work. So I'll let you pick it up from there about I would talk about sort of the impact and the work that you're doing now and anything else you wanna fill in from my sort of poppy opening.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah. I think what you said is right. Like, you know, the thing is that organizations have to want to change and we see that there's a lot of resistance and doubling down. So I only work with organizations who want to be inclusive. They want to create a space of belonging for everyone.
Latasha Morrison:
Even a lot of times, the reason why people curate a space just for people who look like them is because that's their only reference. They've never been exposed. They've lived maybe a homogenous life, but they're not resistant to it. They just haven't been exposed to it. So it was really, you know, just a lack of not a lack of care, but more so a little bit of ignorance because it just hasn't been your story.
Latasha Morrison:
So, someone like me, you know, to give feedback for, for people, especially in a Christian space, like, because, you know, we look at scripture and we look at Jesus and the life that Jesus lived while on earth was inclusive. He was counter cultural. And so I hold that in Christian spaces that that to me gives empowers me to speak into spaces like that. Because if we are Christians, we have something in common and we should want to include, be inclusive and create brave and belonging spaces for all people, for all Christians. And so that is the kind of litmus.
Latasha Morrison:
And that's my heart. I think where the heart of Be The Bridge started from is like, okay, listen, I wanna help people who don't know how to help themselves. You know, I wanna create cross racial, cross cultural conversations. That's going to allow people to dive into the messy, into the ugly, into the uncomfortable. It's about building relationships with people who don't look like you and also telling our stories.
Latasha Morrison:
I think that's one of the, the beautiful things that comes out of, the work that you do and the work that I do is that people get to tell their stories. And Mhmm. When you can hold space for people and listen, that's so empowering and that's, kinda like what we have is be the bridge groups around the country that use our tools and resources, our guys to kind of start cultivating these relationships in their homes, in their corporations, in their organizations. We are faith based and also value space. So we want a whole space for people who don't necessarily, have the same faith practices, but they hold a lot of the same standards, that we embody.
Latasha Morrison:
And so that's one of the things that we do. And when we hold space for people's story, man, like that is so that is so liberating. And in our first, be the bridge group, people were allowed to share their story for the first time and someone to listen that didn't look like them and it was healing. Mhmm. It wasn't like we bought solutions, but there was compassion and empathy Mhmm.
Latasha Morrison:
That was brought. It wasn't questioned. It wasn't deflected. It wasn't no denial. It wasn't defended, but bought listening ears and empathy and say, I it's not my story, but I want to stand in this space, this sacred space with you and be there and be present.
Latasha Morrison:
So we bring presence to people.
Mickenzie Vought:
How did you curate that first group of Be the Bridge?
Latasha Morrison:
That is so funny. It happened on the back end of that conference. I went to the, one of the leaders of the conference at that time, and this was actually before you moved. I think it was before you even moved to Austin, Lindsay. And I, you know, said, hey, you know, great conference, but these are some of the things that I notice.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah. And these are some of the things that that kinda burden me. And, you know, I just wanna know. And and it's also a conviction for me. And I just, you know, is it, it is, does it burden you?
Latasha Morrison:
Does it bother you? And so that's kinda how it started. And we just, it led into some conversations and we were like, hey, let's get some people together that we know, you know, and I was with some other women of color that actually had this conversation with her and there were some other Asian American women that had also inquired about it. Mhmm. You know?
Latasha Morrison:
And so when you have 5 people kind of, you know, that that love what you're doing, but just said, hey, this is how you can make it better. Now whether you listen or not, your story would would won't be that, hey. I just didn't know. I, you know, you know, I didn't, you know, I just I had no idea. I'd no one ever brought this to my attention.
Latasha Morrison:
Your story would be more so that, hey, someone did bring this to nothing about it. Someone told me about it and I choose to ignore it because it was hard. It was difficult. I was gonna make too many other people uncomfortable. And that's a different story when you play that out.
Mickenzie Vought:
Yeah. So When you say that, I think about the words that Lindsay kinda used at the front of this of, like, at the burden of yourself. And I'm interested I think I've I I read on your website that you said you've always been a a bridge builder, and I wonder what does that look like? Like, what does that mean
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah.
Mickenzie Vought:
In your story? How have you leaned into it?
Latasha Morrison:
I think, just how I'm wired. I'm wired more justice, restorative. That's just how I'm wired. Like anyone in my family, like, you know how sometimes you're like one way in your profession and in your life, but you're different. And if you ask people in your family, they'll say, mm-mm, she ain't no bridge builder.
Latasha Morrison:
She burned it down. My family would say the same thing to the point where it gets on their nerve. My mom was trying to tell me something just just, like, a couple days ago. And I was like, ma, like, no. Like, why are you saying that?
Latasha Morrison:
Like, she, you know, this lady just went through da da da. And my mom was like, she's totally different. We are the opposite. I I I feel like I get this trait a little bit from my grandmother. My dad's mom, maternal grandmother, was like that, but her mother wasn't like that.
Latasha Morrison:
Her mother was a burn it down, you know. My mom's mama is a burn it down. And so I am in my family, especially on my mom's side, I am more of a unicorn, you know. And, you know, my great aunt will tell you, she'll to to mend and to build bridges and that's just, I don't have to try to do that. It's just uniquely who I am naturally.
Latasha Morrison:
And it is hard because I had to learn my voice. I had to learn balance, you know, growing up where sometimes people can take that as you being passive or you not having a voice. But the thing is like I know how to use my voice and ways to bring people together. So if I look back over my life, even from elementary school all the way through college, I've always had those type of threads in my life, you know, in my friendships and all of that. That's just kind of just uniquely.
Latasha Morrison:
I was kind of like born for this in a in a crazy way. You know?
Lindsey Nobles:
You, like, are such a gracious truth teller. You know? Like, you you'll speak up and say the thing that needs to be said.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah.
Lindsey Nobles:
But you do it in a way that people can hear, and that is with so much kindness and empathy that they don't, like, immediately fall back on their heels and get defensive. And so I do think I see it so much in your purse how you manage your personal relationships, but really, it has, like, been such a gift to the
Mickenzie Vought:
world and how you've brought it to be the bridge.
Latasha Morrison:
It's an art to it. It's an art. It's like a dance where I can say really hard things, but people tell me you say it with a smile. So I don't know if I should be mad at you or what, you know? But I try to tell people, listen, we all present differently.
Latasha Morrison:
And so you gotta train your ears to hear from someone like me, but also train your ears to hear the heart of someone that maybe is like more like my mom. You know? Because we could be saying the same thing. We're just saying it from and we're saying it from the same place as we we love and we care for you, but our tactics are different. And so just knowing how the the read the room, but people, I'm telling you, it's so hard out there right now.
Latasha Morrison:
It's really difficult. And even with this grace and dancing that I do, sometimes, you know, it hits people the wrong way and sometimes people still can't receive and I have to just just look and say, bless your heart. It's okay. I'm going to keep it moving and I'm not going to waste my energy here. And that's the part for me that I have to learn is that I cannot control people.
Latasha Morrison:
I cannot change people's mind.
Lindsey Nobles:
Yeah.
Latasha Morrison:
I can give them information to hopefully help change their mind. But that work is beyond me. That's for their, creator, who whoever to to do that. But most faith environments have this moral standard and how we should treat the other. And that's something people sometimes have to be reminded of.
Latasha Morrison:
You know?
Lindsey Nobles:
Yeah. I love what you're saying now too about sort of having those personal boundaries
Latasha Morrison:
to Yes.
Lindsey Nobles:
Like, be able to say things, but, like, also not be devastated when things don't change. Because sometimes it feels so personal. I feel like that's a lot of the work that I've had to do it on-site is, like, all I can control is me and my actions and try and move things forward, but, like, I can't control the other person on the other side of this relationship.
Latasha Morrison:
Right.
Lindsey Nobles:
And it just has been a lifelong learning of, like, how do I learn to let go after I've, like, done my part?
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah. And that's that's the hard part of what we talk about, the process of reconciliation, you know, like, you know, there's this repair component, you know, with it. So it's different from forgiveness. Forgiveness is for me personally, like, you know, for me to forgive you, although it feels good for you, if someone forgives you, it's not for you, it's for them. So that's why I'm always like, stop asking people after some type of trauma, you know.
Latasha Morrison:
Do you forgive the person? You know, like, that's that's for them to work through. That's a process. But what we want it, we want it to be, out for the wrong that we've called someone.
Lindsey Nobles:
We want them to stop talking about it. Yes. Yes. It could be done.
Latasha Morrison:
To shut it down.
Lindsey Nobles:
Yes. Like that To shut it down. You forgiven me? Now
Latasha Morrison:
Now leave me alone.
Mickenzie Vought:
It's like a like a blanket, sorry
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah.
Mickenzie Vought:
And we're all good. Let's just
Latasha Morrison:
move forward. And it's empty.
Mickenzie Vought:
As we talked about forgiveness, I wanted to return to something Latasha had said in passing, the concept of reconciliation. Once we've sought true forgiveness, what does reconciliation look like in this conversation and in our relationships?
Latasha Morrison:
This process of making things right, you know, this process of repair, so that, there's a flourishing for all of us. And so I think that is something where repair, justice, restoration has to be a part of that. Now it's one thing for me to give you the gift of forgiveness. Now, how do we move forward in restoration? How do you repair now?
Latasha Morrison:
Because there's a responsibility that comes with repair for those, that have caused the harm. So if I saw your bicycle and I messed up your bicycle, this was your only means of transportation. And then I said, I'm, I'm sorry. And you said, you know what? Because I love you, I I forgive you.
Latasha Morrison:
But you're still out of bicycle.
Lindsey Nobles:
Yeah. I need some help
Latasha Morrison:
now. I need to ride. Yeah. Yeah. Like, now you can't go to work.
Latasha Morrison:
You may lose your job. You can't get your kids to school. Well, I mean, whatever. There's, there's, there's, ramifications for that decision that I made. And so there's a process of repair and restoration that I need to do.
Latasha Morrison:
I need to replace your bike. You know, I need to commit to not doing that and bringing harm to you again. So we may have to set up some boundaries for that. You know? And then as you, you know, trust back or, you know, as the relationship heals, then there's this reconciliation process where we can live kinda in harmony with one another and build a new relationship together from this new foundation that we've of of restoration and redemption, you know?
Latasha Morrison:
And so that's the part where a lot of times people don't understand it. They just think it's a kumbaya that we all stand on the bridge and you just need to forgive. And then we need just need to keep on doing creating the same oppressive systems that we've always created. But, you know, so that's not a turning away from, you know, a part of that when we talk about forgiveness and a turning away from that restoration, there's also a word of repentance that we use. That's a turning away from, that means that I don't do that again.
Latasha Morrison:
So if you've, you know, made an apology, but you're still creating systems, you're not repairing, then you haven't turned away from, you know? And so that's what I kinda explained to people in the first book, Be the Bridge. And so what is this true process of reconciliation? And that is the cornerstone of our organization. You know, a lot of people won't even use the word reconciliation because they said, you know, there has never been conciliation, so conciliation, you know, so how can we be, you know, reconciled if there's never been any conciliation?
Latasha Morrison:
And, and I'm like, well, I'm calling those things that are not as though they are. So I'm looking at it different from a standard, from, from a biblical standard, you know? And so but I do understand why people don't use that word, and I can agree. But in the spaces that I'm in, there's a reason why I'm using that word.
Lindsey Nobles:
A language that works.
Latasha Morrison:
It's a language.
Mickenzie Vought:
Beat and Bridge is a great resource. There's, like, some small group curriculum
Latasha Morrison:
that Yeah.
Mickenzie Vought:
We did it as an organization a couple years ago, and it just was such a great catalyst for conversations
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah.
Mickenzie Vought:
Within the organization around how we can open our minds to other people's experience.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah. Yeah. And and and one of the things I did say, having been through On-site myself, one of the things that I did say in closing was we have to remember that our experiences are not universal. What you've experienced is not what everyone experienced. Your interactions are not everyone's interactions.
Latasha Morrison:
You're the lens that you see through have shaped you. I'm seeing, I'm looking through a totally different lens that has shaped me. And so we have the whole space to understand that your truth, is not my truth. Right. You know?
Latasha Morrison:
And so I think when we can make space for that and we do that all the time as it relates to relationships. We can understand these terminologies. We understand if we've been in a relationship with someone and it's been fractured, you know, we don't just pick up where we are and just say, hey, girl. Like, it's it's good. Like, are, you know, just imagine like, someone going through a divorce or separation and they're just picking up and they're not even looking at the past at all.
Latasha Morrison:
Like, you remember. Like, you can forgive and you're still gonna remember. So we we may have to talk through that. We're gonna have to tell the truth about that. We're gonna have to create a healthy narrative that we both agree on.
Latasha Morrison:
We're gonna have to have a common memory, a shared memory about that before we can even move forward. We don't do that in our country. We change the story. We shift the narrative. My experience is the universal experience.
Latasha Morrison:
If it's not bothering me, it shouldn't bother you. And we don't build relationships like that, not healthy ones in our life. So why would we think when it comes to race that that works? We know it doesn't work. It's just that we want to stay comfortable because this is just a very uncomfortable conversation, you know?
Latasha Morrison:
And Yeah. I tell everyone, I'm like, we didn't break it, but we have a choice whether we wanna uphold it. And it is our responsibility. Just because we didn't break it, it is our responsibility to try to repair it. And that's just healthy humanity.
Latasha Morrison:
That's just healthy living, you know. That is just healthy living. And so I know that resonates.
Lindsey Nobles:
It definitely resonates. I feel like it keeps coming back to relationships. I think thinking sometimes systematically or politically or in a global atmosphere that just feels so rife with division.
Mickenzie Vought:
And even
Lindsey Nobles:
sort of like the narrative that's so prominent that we have to choose sides instead of like really like sitting down and learning from people and hearing their story and caring and having empathy for can help us, like, open our lens and then begin to shift our perspectives and the other things, like, flow naturally from, like, the foundational relationship.
Latasha Morrison:
Mhmm.
Lindsey Nobles:
And I feel like a lot of times when we're just on social media or in in spaces where we don't have the actual relationships Yeah. That the advocacy kind of can fall flat because it is words versus actions.
Latasha Morrison:
I think you're right. I think face to face is totally different. But I do understand that proximity is not the only solution. There has to be action with the proximity. There has to be active listening with the proximity.
Latasha Morrison:
There has to be compassion with the proximity because there's a lot of people that have been proximate to people that are different and still oppressed and marginalized. And so I think that's, that's key. And I think at some point what you were saying, there's a process to this as I get to know you and understand it's not gonna happen over social media. Social media is going to peak the interest and hopefully you can go and listen and learn. And what we say, listen, learn, lament, which is great sorrow and then leverage, you know, lean in.
Latasha Morrison:
I can do all the L's, you know, and and that, you know, but as you do the work, you begin to transform. And then from that transformation, then you do have to make a decision. You have to you then you do have to kinda like it becomes a sizing. But when we start off, like, you know, pick a side, that's hard when you don't even have the context or you don't even know the information on why you're picking a side. So I think that's why these, these conversations, these be the bridge conversations are key.
Latasha Morrison:
And then also some of the other things we have an online academy where people can go and and learn and say, you know what? I don't know, but I'm open to learning. I'm open to someone showing me. I'm open to having the conversations. And I do want to learn.
Latasha Morrison:
You know, we have, you know, tracks for, you know, for specifically for white people because there's something different that you need in this conversation than I need. And we have conversations that's different for BIPOC people. There's something different that I need as an African American than, you know, an Asian American person, you know, and we can even delve that down even even more where there's something different that maybe a person, if if we look outside the American culture, there's something different that a Japanese person would need this different from a Korean person. I mean, because they are different people groups, like we mush them together in our society, you know, but, you know, they those are different cultures. You know?
Latasha Morrison:
There's some some similarities just like there's some similarities in in a lot of us, but those are different. And, you know, we can even drill that down from there's a big difference in being an Ethiopian than being a Nigerian. Very different. Yeah. Language, culture, worship, everything.
Latasha Morrison:
And so I think we are all unique, but our American infrastructure has like put these guardrails on our uniqueness. And I think, diversity is a beautiful thing and it's something to be celebrated. It is definitely a song to be sung. It's not a burden. We don't go to the zoo.
Latasha Morrison:
Just imagine going to the zoo and all we saw was one type of animal. We would, you know, you know, your son wouldn't enjoy that because it's just all I mean, if you just I mean, if I just saw giraffes, like, they're great. Yeah. But after a while, you're like, okay. I don't see one giraffe.
Latasha Morrison:
Like, I don't I don't wanna see another one. You know? Exactly. But when we see zebras and we see, you know, peacocks and we see all these beautiful things that make up the safari or the zoo or the aquarium. That's the beauty is the difference.
Latasha Morrison:
And I think that's how we have to look at each other is that, you know, someone from Vietnam, there's something beautiful about their culture, their language and how they communicate. That's different from me, totally different, but difference doesn't mean bad.
Mickenzie Vought:
I'm so grateful for how Latasha shows up in this conversation. And as she was sharing, I got curious about how I can own my own side of the street as a white woman of privilege. I wondered about the posture that I could take when going into hard conversations in which I wanna gain understanding without putting it on the other person to bear the burden of the conversation. I wondered how we can do our own work and enter into these conversations with an open posture.
Latasha Morrison:
First of all, we're not a monolith group. So Yeah. No. You you have to do your own work. There are so many resources out there now than ever before, and that is the thing that people are changing and growing and shifting and that changes power dynamics.
Latasha Morrison:
And that's what a lot of people are concerned about. But I would say that I can't promise anyone a safe space, you know, because this work is not safe. It's uncomfortable. It's muddy. It's messy.
Latasha Morrison:
But what you have, the way you show up, the posture that you show up is that of humility. You know, the posture that I had to show up and on-site is that of humility. Because when I show up with humility, then what comes out of that humility is vulnerability and transparency. And in order to heal and to move forward, we need vulnerability, We need transparency. And that is gonna flow from your humility saying, I don't know.
Latasha Morrison:
I'm probably wrong. I may have been wrong. I probably hurt some people.
Mickenzie Vought:
Yeah.
Latasha Morrison:
I you know? But I am willing to listen. And that when you come with that and say, I don't have all the answers, then we have something to work with. If you come with the posture of, you gotta convince me.
Mickenzie Vought:
Mhmm. Yeah.
Latasha Morrison:
Show me the statistics. And you're comparing it to maybe your your one experience with 3 people of color or your one experience with 3 white people, like, you know, like, and if you're coming with that, that defensiveness, deflection, then we're not gonna get anywhere. And that's exhausting for me. And I'm not gonna even engage in if someone's being defensive or deflecting, that is not soil for me because that's exhausting. And that's the boundary I had to create in this work.
Latasha Morrison:
And sometimes you have to leave people to themselves. And it may not be me as a person that comes and impacts them. But just like this man I heard, no one could get through to him. But when his grandson who was of mixed race was born Mhmm. That shifted his heart to the point where he wanted to listen and he wanted to hear.
Latasha Morrison:
And that's his story. For some people it's been because they've adopted a child of a different race and they see now the lens that that child is looking through. They see that they hear the comments that are being made. They see sometimes the interactions at school. They see sometimes what is happening in their community with their child if they if they allow themselves to see.
Latasha Morrison:
And they're like, wait a minute. This child has a different is walking through a totally different experience. But when you're in denial of that, when we try to play this colorblind mentality, that doesn't work. And that's what nobody has communicated that because we live in a society that separates us by race.
Lindsey Nobles:
Yeah.
Latasha Morrison:
We fill it out anytime we fill out a job application, census, anything. So we cannot deny that. We live in a society that separates us by race and that that that race has hierarchies. Those racial categories have hierarchies. So we live in a racialized society.
Latasha Morrison:
So because we live in a racialized society, we do not live in a color blind society. I see you and you see me, and I want you to see me. You know? I want you to see me because I feel that I'm beautiful and that this chocolate is beautiful. You know, just like you should want me to see you.
Latasha Morrison:
Like, you know, you're not white just like I'm not black, but that is the category that we've been put in.
Mickenzie Vought:
Mhmm.
Latasha Morrison:
And I think it's up to us to discover what was lost, what was taken from us, what was taken from me as an African American. And then also as a white person, what is your ethnic story? You have an ethnic story. What is that? And it's important for you to to to begin to discover that and to begin to reclaim that identity.
Latasha Morrison:
And I think that will help, you know, shatter these unhealthy systems that we've been put in, these boxes. I mean, we've been dubbed down to 6 boxes in this beautiful world, you know?
Mickenzie Vought:
Yeah.
Latasha Morrison:
Which is crazy when we think about it. You know, there's history connected to you, Mackenzie. There's history connected to you, Lindsay. Mhmm. So and I think that's important for us to know.
Lindsey Nobles:
Love that. Yeah.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah.
Lindsey Nobles:
Your new book comes out
Latasha Morrison:
Yes. My new book comes out May 21st. May 21st. May 21st.
Mickenzie Vought:
So soon.
Latasha Morrison:
Yes. It is called Brown Faces, White Spaces Confronting Systemic Racism to bring healing and restoration. And that's the key part. It's not just confronting, you know, these systems. And the way you confront something is you have to talk about it.
Latasha Morrison:
You have to tell the story. You have to give the history. But we don't just leave leave it there. There's so many things I read where it's like, I'm a tell you all that's broken, and I'm just gonna leave it there.
Mickenzie Vought:
No. I stop.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah. But I think yeah. There's a there's a responsibility. How do we move forward? You know?
Latasha Morrison:
So it has to start in truth. We can't start in a lie. You know that you can't build a healthy relationship with anyone if it starts in a lie. So we have to uncover as uncomfortable as it is. We have to tell the truth and we know the truth makes us free.
Latasha Morrison:
It's liberating. Yeah. You know, the first thing when you start, you know, when you go through a 12 step program, you can't go through the program lying. Yeah. Is that gonna work?
Latasha Morrison:
I mean, we know that common sense tells us that. So why when it comes to race, we think there's a different set of rules. We make up a different set of rules, you know, just like people that when you're playing UNO or Monopoly, you change the rules because you wanna win. Yeah. You know?
Latasha Morrison:
And this is not about winning. This is you know, because when we build healthy relationships and we build a country that's healing and restorative, we all win. You know what I'm saying? Your kids win.
Mickenzie Vought:
Yeah.
Latasha Morrison:
It's like, you know, sharing when you share, that's everybody's winning. You know? And so I think that's just the thing that we have to, create space. And this is looking at just about 9 system. It's not looking at every system, but I'm looking at the education system.
Latasha Morrison:
What's been broken?
Mickenzie Vought:
Mhmm.
Latasha Morrison:
What are the stories of the people that are recipients of that brokenness? Yeah. You know? How have some of them seceded? How have some of them, liberated themselves?
Latasha Morrison:
How have some of them had to leave those systems?
Mickenzie Vought:
Yeah.
Latasha Morrison:
You know, housing, medical, we're looking at the medical system, healthcare system, all of these systems. I'm looking at the religious system. Mhmm.
Mickenzie Vought:
Yeah.
Latasha Morrison:
You know? And so we're looking at all of that and how do we bring about healing and restoration. And so we have to be brave. We say, you know, you know, we we always say, you know, the land of the free, the land of the brave. Like why why are we so weak when it comes to this conversation?
Latasha Morrison:
You know, Why do we have to deflect and change it? You know, why can't we be brave? Why can't I say that, you know what? Yes. There's some great things that Thomas Jefferson did, But then there's some ugly things that he did.
Latasha Morrison:
We can hold that tension of both things. Everybody is not all bad Mhmm. Just like everyone's not all good. But we can hold the tension. And so that's how we create brave spaces and courageous spaces to confront this.
Latasha Morrison:
And this is how what I call healing forward. You know, we heal forward and what we're doing and how we're having the conversations now. That's not going to bring about healing. That's going to bring about more brokenness. That's going to bring about more harm.
Latasha Morrison:
That's going to bring about more marginalization and at the end we all lose from that. We're all gonna lose from that. Generations lost from that before, generations will lose from it now, and I think we have to ask ourselves like, why is power so important to me? Why is holding power so important?
Mickenzie Vought:
Latasha has such a way of saying really hard truths in a kind and confronting way. I was so grateful for the way that she called out the uncomfortableness of some of the realities and systems of oppression within which we exist in our country. She brings these realities into light in a very practical example from the very first moment in her new book. She shares that as someone born in the 19 seventies, she was the first person in her family who was born into a time where she had legal access to equal education. That floored me.
Mickenzie Vought:
And I asked her to expound a little more on this idea.
Latasha Morrison:
I was born in 73, and some schools were all those desegregation, the process when you think about Brown versus Board of Education happened in the the fifties, like, people I mean, the federal government had to get involved. Like, it was up until the seventies and some places eighties before schools were desegregated, but were we?
Lindsey Nobles:
Yeah, the zoning.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah, zoning and we just we just come up, we always come up with another, a new model.
Mickenzie Vought:
A new way to do it.
Latasha Morrison:
A new way to do it. And so just think about that. I'm the first one. My parents were born into a world where they could not go to the schools of their their choices, the colleges of their choices. We just got access to these institutions.
Latasha Morrison:
You know, it hasn't even been a century. But this these oppressive systems existed for centuries. And we're just getting access. And the things that we put in place in the sixties to give accountability, to give direction, to give struck instructions, to give guidelines. We're rolling all those things back.
Latasha Morrison:
And so just think what that does, you know, and why are we doing that? We got to ask, we got to have these hard conversations and we have to address the ugliness within ourselves on why we we feel that that's okay. You know? And so and and and to me, it's just so simple. Like like, I want I want Lizzy to win.
Latasha Morrison:
Like, I want, you know, Ben to win. You know, I want Mackenzie to win. I want you to be successful. People who look like me, we're winning and everybody else is on the curb. You know?
Latasha Morrison:
I why would I wanna do that? I wouldn't wanna create a system like that, you know, or to hinder a system like that. I don't I understand. I don't really know how people sleep at night with themselves. You know?
Latasha Morrison:
I'm just like, wow. You know, You have to have a marred heart, but that that's what it is. There's a heart condition. You know? And I can give information, but I can't change your heart.
Latasha Morrison:
But hopefully, like you said, one of the things that stood out to you is the reality of, wow, you're the first person in your generation, you know, in your family to have a born with a full set of rights.
Mickenzie Vought:
I think it's the importance of, like you're saying, it's not a lack of care, but it's also a desire to stay comfortable for me, and I know that. But putting a name and a face to it, like, you are someone that I follow on the Internet. You are someone that I know Mhmm. Quote unquote.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah.
Mickenzie Vought:
And to put it to that, like, there's something about relationship. I know that we we quote Brene Brown all the time, but it's hard to hate someone up close, but it's hard to
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah, that's good.
Mickenzie Vought:
Once you know, you can never again say you didn't write. Like you were saying you, I'm not gonna leave you in a place where you can say you didn't know. But I'm also gonna give you the information and you'll have to be accountable for that. And I think within our relationships, when someone comes to us, whatever the herd is, we are accountable for that information of how our actions, how we're operating is showing up for them, and you're talking about their experience, the lens they look for when they share that to us. Mhmm.
Mickenzie Vought:
It's our responsibility to do something with it.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah. I need to care. Like, it's just care for the other. Like, there were a lot of, you know, going through the groups at On-site. There were a lot of people.
Latasha Morrison:
Their story is not my story. There were people that were there. They're having issues in their marriage. I'm I'm a single person. That's not my story.
Latasha Morrison:
But I can hold space. Mhmm. I can have empathy. I can listen. I can care deeply that I want you to have a healthy marriage.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah. You know, and to have healthy relationships with your children. And I can sit there and mourn with you and have sorrow with you. And that doesn't take anything away from me.
Lindsey Nobles:
Yeah.
Latasha Morrison:
You know? And that's what we have to do. You know? It's like, I don't, you know, I don't have children. But I care about this generation.
Latasha Morrison:
And I wanna leave it better than how I found it. And just because I don't have children, am I supposed to not care about what's happening in schools? Am I not supposed to go go to the school board even I I don't care if I have kids in the school. Yeah. I care about what's happening in education.
Latasha Morrison:
You know? Yeah. You know? I care about it. And and it's important because the humans that are gonna go through those doors are important to me.
Latasha Morrison:
You know, we have a, we should have a sense of humanity for one another. You know, I just like, I mean, even what's happening in other countries, I'm gonna care about it.
Lindsey Nobles:
It struck me during our conversation, like, how important it is that we all do, like, our work so that we can emotionally regulate and have healthy boundaries and depersonalize the things that aren't, personal attacks. You know? So that's, like and care and have concern and empathy and resilience and all these things. And I think that so often, you know, like, mental health and the diversity, equity, and inclusion conversations are often so separate. But I think that they just, like, blend into 1 because if you don't have 1, you can't do the other well.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah. Yeah.
Lindsey Nobles:
And vice versa. Like, if if you don't have DEI and a sense of safety and inclusion for people, they can't do this other thing. And so I just am struck at how much we need each other and and our organizations, like, need each other to continue to learn and grow so that
Mickenzie Vought:
Yeah.
Lindsey Nobles:
On-site can continue to be a safer place for people of color and that people doing this work have the resources that they need to, feel safe and grounded and secure in their identity so that they can, like, move forward. So
Latasha Morrison:
You just have to listen to the uncomfortable conversations. And just when you start getting defensive, say why why am I getting defensive about this? You know, like pause, breathe. What is this hitting in me? This is making me feel that way.
Latasha Morrison:
And sometimes when you start doing that, you start pulling away some of the threads of what's making you uncomfortable with it and just face the fact like, okay, this is someone is talking about their experience. So how do I hold space, you know, for that? And it's harder to walk out. It's easier said than done. It's harder to walk out.
Latasha Morrison:
You have to practice at it. You have to build that muscle. And so when you if you have a couple conversations to make you uncomfortable and you just stop, it's not gonna you're not building that muscle. You're gonna go back to just how you were. And I've seen that with organizations where they, you know, in 2020, everybody wanted to have this conversation.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah. As soon as things got hard or difficult because it really didn't come from this place of conviction, it came from performative. Like, I don't want anybody to say anything bad about me, and I wanna kinda show what I should be doing. But when it's not popular, I'm gonna go back to the things the way they were. I mean and just think about that, how that how that feels to people looking from the outside in to say that this is not important.
Latasha Morrison:
Because at the end of the day, diversity is a big business, you know. It improves diversity improves your bottom line. That's statistically factual. Yeah. This group of millennials that we have are the most diverse group than any other generation.
Latasha Morrison:
If you're not being inclusive, if you're not thinking that way, you're gonna be obsolete. Yeah. Yeah. Eventually, you it's gonna run its course. Because you say the millennial group, now you got Gen z, Gen Alpha, they think different.
Latasha Morrison:
And they think from more of compassion and justice, you know. Yeah. And so the world is changing whether you like it or not. And so you might wanna pull up a chair and say, speak to me.
Lindsey Nobles:
Yeah. Yeah. I wanna learn.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah. Yeah. Have your hands open, your heart open, and, you know, the same practices that we put in to build in ourselves and, you know, the thing we're fighting in our Western culture is that of individualism. You know, we're very individualistic culture. If it doesn't affect me and my close knit nuclear family, then I don't care about it.
Latasha Morrison:
It doesn't matter. I only I'm only concerned about that. Being from the African American community and most marginalized community, we're more collective. We think as a whole, we think as a community. You know, if it doesn't impact me, if it impacts my community, it impacts me.
Latasha Morrison:
Yeah. You know, there are some things that I can benefit from, but that's gonna impact my community. So I don't necessarily wanna benefit from it. That's collective thinking. That's communal thinking.
Latasha Morrison:
And that's a shift that we have to to, to make. You know? How do we think more communal?
Mickenzie Vought:
Yeah. I love that. That's good. Tasha, thank you so much for chatting
Latasha Morrison:
with us.
Mickenzie Vought:
This has been such an awesome conversation, and I'm just really grateful, that you've shown up. And is there anything that we didn't ask you or that you wanted to share that we didn't cover today?
Latasha Morrison:
I think we covered a lot, you know, and just it may feel like, those of you who are listening, it may feel like a water hose. And some of you, your heart rate probably went up, you know, your your your your tension because sometimes we view this conversation through our partisan lens. And so I would ask you to not view it through your partisan lens, view it through your humanity. I I didn't say political for a reason because everything systems are created through policy, you know? And so we are we have politics is about people.
Latasha Morrison:
So we have to be political because everything that was done was done politically, you know? Yeah. So it has to be undone politically. But partisan is different. And so I I would say we need to let go of some of those unhealthy citizens that put us against each other, you know, that create that divide us, you know.
Latasha Morrison:
I've never seen so much defend, you know, division ever in my life. I've never seen it. You know, I think, you know, maybe our parents have seen it, you know, they probably lived through it, but I think for me, it's like so uncomfortable because I've just, I'm not used to seeing it. And so I think, you know, we have to silence the dividers and we have to confront these issues with and lead with our humanity and our humility. Humility is a strength.
Latasha Morrison:
It's a superpower. It's not a weakness, you know, and I think we need to remember that. So, c'est la.
Lindsey Nobles:
C'est la. Thank you.
Mickenzie Vought:
Thanks for listening to the Living Centered Podcast. If you're enjoying the show, we'd love for you to consider leaving us a review or rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you listen. It only takes a few seconds to navigate to the show in your app and select the stars to begin your rating. It helps more people find the show, and we really appreciate it. Thanks so much.
