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This Dental Specific Podcast is dedicated to the Dental "Entrepreneur" Michael Dinsio, Founder of Next Level Consultants, delivers #TRUTH when starting up a dental practice. From the very first step to getting the keys of a dental practice, Michael shares his raw & unscripted playbook with you. Not only does this podcast provide you with "What To Do" but more importantly "What Not To Do". With over over 15 years of experience & over 150 past clients, Michael delivers an educational and informative program in a real and genuine way. Start w/ Episode 01 - as we go through a STEP by STEP process.
00:09
StartUp UNscripted the questions you have with the truths you need to hear And now your host Michael Dencio All right. All right guys another episode in the encore series here guys I am telling you this is the episode you have to listen to I interviewed dr. Christopher Phelps I'm gonna bring him here in in a minute. You can hear all about this, but
00:36
We talked about the art of picking up the phone call and converting patients. I mean, if a startup was interested in success, this is the call for you to, or this is the podcast to listen to. Here's some statistics for you. Of all new patient calls, one third of them get missed.
00:59
One third of your new patient calls get missed. Are you kidding me right now? And then the other really interesting statistic was once you get people on the phone, if you actually did pick up the phone, one third of those new patients get scheduled. That's horrible. That's horrible. So listen to this episode. We deep dive into the art and science of influence. Dr. Chris Phelps breaks it down and he helps us understand pitfalls.
01:29
and how they get people to pick up and not only, of course they pick up, they don't miss calls, but how they get people to convert into your schedule. stay tuned. Let's get it going. All right, all right guys. Welcome to another episode of Startup Unscripted Encore series or Encore episodes. As you all know, we've worked through the entire process of a startup starting at
01:56
vision and working all the way through it. And now, as you all know, from my loyal followers, that we are in this encore series of really great tools to have as a startup. Now that you're in ownership, that now you're in business and you're feeling the pains of ownership, there are some things that life hacks or maybe call it practice hacks that will really help you keep your costs down.
02:26
patient experience up and just overall satisfaction for you. And so today we have a special guest that I'm excited to interview today because it aligns perfectly with my philosophy to keep your wages, your overall overhead down as you get into your first six to 12 months of ownership because that's so key to preserve and protect that working capital that you got from the bank.
02:55
And these guys have something pretty cool. And so without further ado, I'm just gonna get right into it. I'm interviewing Dr. Christopher Phelps, who's the founder and co-owner of a company called Golden Goose. And Golden Goose is my go-to third party, dare I say call center. And you'll hate that word, I'm sure, Doc. So you'll have the opportunity to beat me up on that, but.
03:23
a company that can help you guys pick up the phone, because you never want to miss calls. And Dr. Phelps is, think has something special that's not just a call center that there's so much better than that. But it's important to know that this guy alone has gone through two startups himself has bought two other practices as well. He owned four practices at a time. And so he gets it.
03:51
He understands it. He's gone through it. Most of my listeners are going through their first practice purchase or startup. This guy's done it four times. So, so listen up folks, cause we're gonna, we're gonna get into this. Uh, but doctor without further ado, welcome to the show. My friend, thanks for being here. Thank you. It's my pleasure to be here. So tell me golden goose. Like how did I do on that intro? Like, like how would you do a 32nd interview? You're in the elevator.
04:21
Uh, someone sees you and they're like, what do you do, sir? For a living? How would, what would you say to that? Yeah. I mean, that's a good question. You know, for anybody that's marketing, I always say golden goose. make everyone's marketing better, uh, because we're going to recapture lost opportunity. Uh, and that's really what I'm in the business of recapturing lost opportunity. Uh, you know,
04:44
this epidemic and plague in dentistry that on average about a third of the new patient calls that come into most offices go unanswered. And if they start spending more than $2,000 a month, it's like half of those calls go unanswered. And if the team does pick up the phone, they only make an appointment about a third of the time. So that right there just tells you just how brutal it is out there and the opportunity to be. All right, wait, wait, wait, you just dropped some.
05:11
statistics. I'm a numbers guy. So a third of all calls in a normal practice get unanswered. Is that what you just said? They're new patient calls. Oh, a new patients. Okay. So new patients, a third get dropped or missed. And then you said, what did you say? Half of if they do answer, they only tend to schedule an appointment about a third of the time on average.
05:38
Okay, so a third and a third got it. Wow. So you're only so essentially you're only capitalizing on a third of your new patient calls. Technically. That's it, right? A hundred calls come in. You don't answer a third and you only schedule a third. You got 22 calls on the books when you could have got 78 more. I just threw up in my mouth. So, okay. So here we are folks, you listeners. I always say this, that's
06:06
Nuff said, listen up, keep your ears open for this episode. But here we are, we have spent 30 to 40, for those that are aggressive in marketing, $50,000 for a startup in your first year on print, pay per click, folks that I've coached, this is kind of the parameters, a website, social media ads, just social media effort and time, the posts, all of that.
06:36
all to probably average somewhere around two to $300 per new patient, maybe even 400 in the beginning for a startup. And you're only capitalizing or the average is capitalizing on a third of those. That's so much wasted money. Like, I don't even know what to say to that. okay, so instantly having someone that could pick up your phone and...
07:02
I'm assuming you're about to drop some knowledge on us of how great your people are. So maybe we should get into that. So how are you making that difference? Like why are your people so good and what are your numbers? Yeah. Well, all right, let's flash back. So this all happened when I sold my two best offices for profit and I crazily took over my two worst ones. Okay. And, one was the second cold start and then another acquisition.
07:30
And I found myself spending $36,000 a month in dental marketing between the two offices to get 60 new patients. And my offices were all fee for service offices. So 30 at one office and 30 at the other office. And when I started digging into my tracking data, I realized we didn't answer 254 new patient phone calls from marketing sources a month between the two. And we only converted 24 % of the time. So we were actually worse than the national average, okay?
07:58
So yeah, speaking of throwing up in your mouth, that's a freaking gut punch right there. So I realized right then this was a problem. I couldn't shake anymore. I got to figure it out. Okay. And I'm one of those people, I don't go looking for a problem, but when I find it, I'm like a dog with a bone. I can't shake it until I figure it out. Right. So I listened to thousands of phone calls of my team. And at the time I had a call tracking company. So I was listening to phone calls from practices all over the U S and Canada and the UK and Australia.
08:26
And amazingly, we all have the same problem on why we're not answering and why we can't make an appointment. So on the conversion side, it's half the time the patient was putting up a barrier to schedule, but the team didn't understand that person's mindset and they didn't understand what they're really asking in essence and didn't have a strategy on how to counter that barrier. Okay. The other half of the time, the team is putting up the barrier because of their prejudice, right? They were, they were prejudging the person. Oh, I don't want that person here. I know who this is.
08:55
right? Based on past experience or whatnot. When in fact, that's not actually who that person was. And actually they could be a very great patient in that practice. If you understood the, know, can put that bias aside, so to speak. So I had to come up with a whole telephone training program to start with. Pre prejudging. And the other, the other one was what did you say two or was it the patient's putting up the barrier and the team didn't know how to get around it. Barriers totally. Okay. So prejudging and barriers.
09:23
were the most common reasons why people didn't book. Got it, okay. Yeah. So it all started with, had to figure out a way around those two problems. And that's where I developed my telephone training program. And over time got my team from 24 % conversions to averaging over 80 % on the telephone. Okay. So again, when you understand the real problem and create a strategy for that, well, guess what happens? You you get better results.
09:49
So the next iteration was, you I got a certification from a guy named Robert Cialdini in this idea of the science of influence and ethical persuasion. And I started looking at all these behavioral science research studies and why people really do what they do, what do they use in the moments leading up to when they decide. And then I decided to combine those two and create a, we call it a scheduling service as a scheduling center. know, call centers just take calls. They don't necessarily make appointments. You know, there was.
10:18
Folks, I told you he was gonna smoke me on that. There it is, okay. But we schedule appointments, hence the Golden Goose scheduling. So I wanted to create a system that my agents follow my phone training and they're all trained in the science of influence and persuasion. And that really is kind of what sets us apart, I think, from the other call centers is because my team understands mindsets and they understand how to influence people to make that appointment, but more importantly, how to show up for that.
10:45
Cause that's really, doesn't count until they get into the office, right? Along the way. So I think between those two, the training and of course the, the influence training, that's what makes us different. So nobody else has that. right. So this is, this is, this is a great conversation because the science of influence in a sense, and I've listened to other, other interviews of you.
11:08
with other podcasts and it always goes down this path, right? Like people are very fascinated with the influence part of this, right? Cause you're right, you're just a call center if you don't have this part, right? You're picking up the phone, which frankly is gonna increase a third of the calls that you missed that fixes that problem, but it doesn't fix the third that don't schedule. And so,
11:38
So the influencing part is the key. And with that being said, give us some, it down. Like we are big assignment, cynic, uh, consultants at my firm. love him. We think he's sharp. Uh, folks, if you don't know Simon Sinek, he's all about find your why. And then from there, you kind of reverse engineer. If you can understand somebody's why, then you can, you could find a way to influence them, but little related, not, not exactly. So.
12:08
Just in general, how would you break down kind of like maybe your top three things that help you get penetrate into these psyches or how do you find that pivot point for influence? Does that make sense? Question? Yeah, definitely. The first one is our agents always try to use the liking principle, right? Which basically states we like to do business with people we like, right? Who doesn't like to do business with their friend?
12:34
But really it boils down to, we'd like to do business with those who are like us, right? Who have similarities, commonalities, some kind of connection. So when we find a connection in someone, we see ourselves in them and therefore want to do more with them. So for instance, if one of my agents hears a dog, they're talking to a potential new patient from one of our clients and they hear a dog barking in the background and they're a dog person, they're gonna bring that up. Oh, is that a dog? What kind of dog do you have? Oh, I've got this kind of dog. Oh, cool, we're dog people. Now let's get to the appointment.
13:03
Right? So the goal is to always try to find some connection first, ideally. And it really doesn't take long to find that when you know the right questions to ask. So leveraging liking is key, number one, because if people don't like you, they don't say yes. Okay. So it's got to start with liking. The next thing I think we've tried to do is we've leveraged the authority principle and the authority principle basically states that we looked at credible expertise and trustworthy people to tell us what we should do.
13:33
Because truthfully, we don't have time to be an expert in everything, right? That's why we need people who have a more better understanding of something and somebody that we can trust to tell us to be our shortcut. So in that case, we're trying to promote that office's authority by just, you know, all you've made the right decision calling, you know, this doctor has been in business for so many years, they're an expert in this versus that, you're in great hands, okay? So it's really big on promoting that person's authority and making sure that the patient understands that they've made the right decision.
14:02
And the last thing we like to do is use the power of social proof, okay? What we used to call consensus. And really that's about the evidence of the masses, right? If we see others doing something or saying something, then it's gonna influence us to wanna kind of do the same. And so how do we leverage that? Well, especially in a post-COVID world, we say, well, I'm so glad you're called. We're gonna try to find you an appointment, but God, we've had so many people calling for appointments this month. We'll see what we can do.
14:29
Just highly, wow, a of people are calling. Wow, I guess I'm calling the right place. Because what you don't realize is there's one of the main reasons why people say no to us is this idea of that there's any kind of uncertainty or doubt in their mind, any kind of questions. They don't move. They stay put. So our two best principles from a science standpoint to satisfy people's uncertainty are authority and social proof. When I got the experts telling me I need to do it, OK, now I'm pretty sure I needed to do it.
14:56
When I see all these other people are doing it too, all right, maybe I'll feel be safe doing it as well. So between liking authority and social proof, we've made that connection. We decreased their uncertainty, getting rid of that barrier that we talked about earlier. And then the key thing is we have to leverage this thing called consistency. We got to get more commitments out of people on the telephone. So consistency, that principle means when somebody makes a commitment, when they take a stand on an issue, put money into it, whatever, they really commit to it.
15:25
There's a lot of external and internal pressure on them to fall through and do with what they said they were going to do to be consistent. And we know that's true when you think of what do we call people that are inconsistent, right? Who don't do what they say they're going to do consistently. You know, there's no good word in the English language to describe these people, right? And the big one is we call them liars. Isn't that what we call people that don't do what they say they're going to do? So that's the external pressure.
15:50
We don't want others to view us as being lying in our value statements and beliefs. And at the same time, the internal pressure is you want to view yourself as being a liar about what your stated values and beliefs are. So if you get people to commit, then they're likely to fall through. What you guys don't realize on the telephone is our teams, not getting any kind of commitments out of anyone to do anything. The key there is you change the commitment, suddenly you change the outcome. So what's an example?
16:18
big steakhouse in Chicago, okay, famous steakhouse, had a 30 % no-show rate on reservations, okay? So just by getting one commitment, instead of saying at the end of the reservation saying, please call us if you need to change your appointment, which is kind of what we say, right? They ask one simple commitment question. Hey, will you please call us if you can't make your appointment? And they wait for them to say, yeah. So just asking that one commitment question and getting that verbal commitment,
16:47
in that restaurant study, drop no shows from 30 % to 10. Just from one. And so the more commitments like that we get on them and even giving them a choice in their appointments, each choice creates a commitment. Hey, this week or next week, morning or afternoon, two o'clock or four o'clock, every choice made means they're more and more and more committed to actually showing up for that appointment, making asking, showing up, asking more commitment.
17:14
asking for more commitments. It's about the ask, right? And having the confidence or the dairies, well, confidence to just straight ask people for something. It's funny, human nature prevents us from doing some things certain times. It's like asking people about their money. I remember when I was a banker, I had to get past the whole thing of asking people about their money and their financial situations.
17:43
You're raised to not ask people about money, but as a banker, that's all you do is how much money do you have? How much you have in retirement, this, that, and the other. I find that there are very few people in this world that are comfortable for asking for the business or asking for commitments. No one wants to impose. So that training is huge. I heard four principles. Oh no, there's three. Authority, power of... Oh, that's right. There's four.
18:13
Yeah. So the light, the liking principle, authority principle, consistency principle and the power of proof, principle, social proof. So awesome. That's, that's, that's excellent. So your people do this on a daily basis, just on the call without probably even like just automatic, they probably just pick up the phone and they, run through each of these principles. Do they literally go through each one on
18:43
every call or do they use the principles as they need them? It's, it's like guidelines. And the whole key with influence is this, is that, you know, I can lead the horse to water, but I can't make a drink. Right. So we've all heard that old adage. Well, from an influence standpoint, I can lead the horse to water, but I can influence it to want to drink. And usually when it wants to drink it does, but ultimately it's still that person's choice. So the way I define it is even with my own team members, we're bowling, we're on a bowling alley, right? But.
19:12
Now I'm going to pick the lane, meaning I've got certain guidelines. want them to follow certain principles. want them to hit at some point. I'm going to pick the pins, meaning I know what the goal is. We've got to the appointment some way, shape or form, but ultimately I got to give them some choice in the matter on how they're going to get that ball down the lane, meaning what size ball, what weight, how big are the holes, small, medium, large, are they going to bullet left-handed or right-handed? They're going to bullet granny style, right? Spend or no spin, right? So I'm going to give them choice to find their way through those guidelines.
19:42
So it's not scripting per se. And yeah, we'd like them to all the principles and many times they do, but sometimes it doesn't make sense, right? It's got to be organic to the conversation. giving them that choice, I think is part of what also sets us apart because when people are too rigid to a script, they can't adapt. Yeah, exactly. And more often than not, something comes up in the phone call and they're like, oh, let me go back to the script.
20:11
I mean, I'm sure you're newbies. Everybody has newbies. It's reputation though. But okay, so that's excellent. Like folks, was, I don't know about you. I was just literally writing notes like a wild man. I don't even think I can read my writing right now, but I think I did okay. You said there was a founder that you kind of pay tribute to. You said the man that came up with the science of influence.
20:40
Yes, that's Dr. Robert Cialdini, C-I-A-L-D-I-N-I. He's the foremost world authority on this influence of persuasion principles. His pioneer book was written 36 years ago. The latest iteration is called Influence the Psychology of Persuasion. But Warren Buffett lists that book as his number one business book on communication. Harvard Business Review listed as one of the top 10 business books of all time.
21:09
It's instrumental in the way we make decisions. what's crazy is the more distracted we get, because you might think, hey, well, we're more educated at society today. We're not going to be susceptible to these principles at present. Then in fact, the opposite is true. The more distracted we get because we're too busy, the more we lean on these things to decide. It's so funny because I don't know about you folks in the audience out there.
21:36
But as I was hearing you go through these principles, I was thinking to myself, 100%, this is how we make decisions. And when you think about it, you could apply this in so many other areas of your life. I'm also thinking of treatment acceptance. I mean, I was just sitting back thinking while you were talking and not active listening. I know, that's terrible.
22:06
And that's actually another topic of how can you do any of these principles without active listening on the phone call? So I bet you your team is very trained on listening so that they can apply these principles organically, like you said. So that's probably something that they're great at. And most people are terrible at that, by the way, is listening. But here I'm thinking like, gosh, Phelps is probably a master in chair side with patients and trying to get them to accept treatment.
22:35
you're probably doing to do these same principles. you find, were you still practicing when you ran into Chaldean principles and started studying? Yeah. So I just sold the two best offices and took over my two worst ones, trying to buy back my time and get more autonomy. But the two practices that I took the worst ones over, of course, were struggling and I couldn't put my finger on why, the root cause.
23:03
And all these little fires with patients and team behavior and kind of like when the cats away, the mice would play. So if I was around, they get the job done. And when I wasn't around, they wouldn't. My associate doctors, all those kinds of things. And I happened to go to a keynote or a presentation that was a one day presentation. And Dr. Chaldini was the keynote presenter there. And he blew me away and talking about these six principles and that consistency principle was my light bulb. And I was like, son of a gun, that's it right there.
23:33
That one is the root cause behind the majority of the problems of my practice right now. Crap, this guy knows what he's talking about. I gotta go find him. So I instantly looked at whatever courses he had or whatever, and they only did like a two day presentation one time a year in July in Phoenix, Arizona. So the hottest freaking time of the year to go. It's like 124 degrees out there when I went. And it's a generic presentation about the science behind the six principles, and then you're left to figure out the application.
24:03
So at that meeting, figured I came away with a thousand ideas for my practices. And then I found out they had a certification program that the, you know, there's only 21 of us that are certified in the entire world to speak on his behalf. And back then it was even less. And so I applied and got approved and got to study under Dr. Cialdini for a year and then use my practices as kind of like my laboratory for the next three years, putting these behavioral science principles in action to solve these problems.
24:31
So I kind of take, and that's what I do now. I take that two day workshop and I applied it to dentistry and I teach a whole case acceptance program on how to tackle it from a behavioral science standpoint. Because everybody else I had run into prior to that was all about tapping into empathy and sympathy to get better case acceptance. Okay. And connect with the person that way. Well, my challenge was always that I scored a one out of 10 on both of those.
24:58
So for me to try to leverage either one of those never worked for me. So I needed something more logical, more rational. And luckily it's the thing that people use the majority of the time anyway to make their decisions. And it kind of factors into not only what we say to people is important, and I go through that, but even the order in which we say things, believe it not, is even more important without any relevance to what you're even talking about. Interesting. That's really interesting. Well, I could tell you could write a book on this stuff, but
25:28
Haldini would probably not be okay with that, but that's really, really awesome. So I guess I'm just thinking like all the ways that you could use this, science of this influence for time purpose, as we kind of head towards the close. I mean, I could talk to you for hours. I don't think people have hours in their car, but I'm curious, like is kind of the authority in this whole third party calling world.
25:58
I work with a lot of mail shops that also specialize in listening to calls and the failures of those calls. I want to dig into that a little bit. With your knowledge and your ability to convert better than most, what do you hear as pitfall? When you did that little science project of how many calls were missed and what people were saying, and you listened to
26:26
hundreds and hundreds of calls, what did you find were the biggest pitfalls? teach us, teach us a little bit about like what not to do. Yeah. Well, an easy one that you can tap into tomorrow and start getting more new patients is with the price shopper is what I call them as one of the categories as why you didn't make an appointment. And it's the person is calling and saying, how much is this? How much is that? Okay. Now maybe, you know, and that could be divided into a hygiene appointment. How much is your cleaning versus a dental appointment?
26:56
How much is the procedure? So let's focus in on the procedure. So let's say somebody calls us, how much is an extraction? Okay. Well, the first thing I hear and everything I hear out of my own team and every other team I listened to is, well, the exam and the X-ray and the whatever is going to be 357 and you might need a crown and that's 1200 or maybe you can do an implant and that's going to be four grand. And what you don't realize is that every number you throw out on the telephone, the patient's adding up in their mind.
27:25
even though they may not be related, it's all getting added up. And they're thinking they're writing it. They're writing. Yeah. And they're like, all right, well, I called four offices and it's five grand to go over there. It's three grand to go over there. It's two grand to go over there. None of this sounds good. Right. So I know what the price shopper, the mindset of that person is they're looking to get the best price. Okay. It is very hard to influence them out of that on the telephone. When you get them into your office, that's a totally different story. Okay. I can pre-suede them differently and I can influence them differently at the chair, but on the phone,
27:54
It's you can't change that mindset. They're too committed. So instead of fighting it, you go with it. So this is the only person I will offer a free exam and x-ray to. That's your first attempt. Hey, you know what? Everybody's different. How much is your extraction? Well, you know what? Everybody's different. Tell you what, why don't you come in for a complimentary exam and x-ray on us. We'll see what's going on. We'll give you a treatment plan. You'll know the cost of whatever it is that you specifically need before we do anything. Does that work for you this week or next week? And we go in to write attempting to schedule.
28:24
Okay. Now that's going to work for about a third of the people. Okay. We'll be like, great. Cause you got rid of the money barrier. Then cost me to come in to see what my problem is. Fantastic. I'm good. When I just heard all these other things elsewhere. Now the next level is you got those people, the other two thirds that are committed to getting the best possible price, which means they're going to shop it around. So if you don't give them the price, they're not going to be happy. So they're going to keep pushing you for it. So they're going say, no, no, really. How much is it? How much is it?
28:54
Okay. So they, want a price. instead of giving them all of those fees, give them what they're asking for. But I say, let's give them the starting at price. So think of that item, whatever that is, and what's the lowest possible thing it could be in that category. Because think of it this way. And for an extraction, most doctors will say, when I asked them, what's the cheapest extraction in your office? And they'll say a simple extraction. And I'll say, okay, is that an adult tooth or a pediatric tooth? And they say an adult tooth.
29:22
Okay, well, you do, do you take out pediatric teeth on kids or, you know, kids teeth on adults? And they're like, sure. Is that cheaper than an adult tooth? Yeah. Okay. So technically that's your lowest extraction. So how do you know that the person on the telephone asking about an extraction doesn't have a pediatric tooth that needs to be extracted? I've taken enough of them out on adults to know you don't know. Right. This goes back to that prejudging again, when you think you know what that person needs, or you believe the patient understands what they need.
29:51
Nine times out of 10, we're both wrong. Okay. So true. So we've to get out of that instead of a stop assuming and just give it to them as the lowest possible thing it could be. How much is your denture? How do you know they don't just need a denture realign at the chair? You don't. So my extractions at the time in my office started at 75 bucks for pediatric extraction on adult or kid. Didn't matter. Well, our extraction started $75 and they go up from there, depending on the level of destruction in your tooth and how difficult the extraction is going to be.
30:19
Tell you what, why don't you get you in for a complimentary exam and X-ray and we'll find out what's exactly going on with your tooth. Figure out the situation. You'll know the cost before we do anything. What do you think? This week or next week? Right. And then you apply your principles, know, social proofing, can just get a commitment. Is that a dog? You know, all of it. that's excellent. okay, so here I'm thinking too, okay, so
30:48
You've mastered the art of phones, which you could never do overnight, but that's a great tip, right? That's why my folks need you. But like, let's say that you write down all your barriers and you get answers to all the barriers. Because I know in a formal life of mine, I was very much a salesperson and I'll never forget my sales training in both companies that I worked for at a corporate level.
31:18
that we always went through the exercise of, Hey, let's all think about all the barriers anyone could ever say or ask price, you know, whatever, reputation, whatever quality. And there wasn't that many, usually it's like 15 or less. And so if you could come up with solutions there for each one, you're already ahead of the game. But, okay. So let's just say you master the phone stuff.
31:48
Now you have a bunch of pay. You've got a lot more on the schedule. Did you find now you're the man of influence. So this might be a little bit bias, but I'm sitting here wondering, okay, my schedule's full. Does my treatment acceptance go down? Because now I've convinced way more people to get on the schedule. Do you kind of see where I'm going? Yes. I mean,
32:15
That's a possibility, right? But I guess I'm thinking I'd rather have a kick at the can than not have one at all, number one. But what are your thoughts about that? Because you're going to get more people, especially the price shopper. I have a lot of clients that say I wouldn't even want them. If that's all they're going to do, I don't even want them. Screw them. Right. That's not really the best attitude for a startup, first of all. But what would you say to all that? Like, I you've gone through it. Startup acquisition.
32:44
Well, it goes back to your mindset on, are you a quantity focused practice or a quality focused practice? Meaning when that butts in the chair, do you want as many people as you can squeeze in during the day or do you want to collect as much as possible? Quantity versus quality or some combination of the two. So if you booked plenty of time, then yeah, if the chairs are full of quality people paying your full fee, hey, why not? Right? That's, you're not going to sacrifice it on the treatment planning side.
33:14
But if you, you pump it full of quantity and you've left yourself no time to connect and talk to people, because liking is the number one most overlooked of the principles. Nobody takes time to connect with these people. And guess what? They don't do business with people they don't like. So trust or trust, right? And if you didn't feel that time in there, yeah, you're going to suffer. Your case acceptance is going to be worse overall as a result. Yeah. No, I love that. And,
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And my philosophy is, it's when I'm coaching is I always get the, know, should I even accept insurance? I'm like, dude, like you're going to literally be hiring all these people. And it goes back to vision. I understand if you're doing full mouth restore, going after kind of like that, that the bigger case, that's your vision. That's a different conversation. But if you're like 90 % of all my clients who are doing bread and butter dentistry and aren't going after like
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$60,000 cases, then like, do you want to just be sitting around paying people and not collecting any revenue? You always have an opportunity to drop later, but why wouldn't you fill up first and then start dropping? I mean, that's to me, that's natural. So I would say fill it up and then focus on getting better with within that hour, collect more per hour, and then make decisions.
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over time about maybe dropping insurance or maybe not forcing people on the phone, quote unquote, forcing, you know, I mean, what are your thoughts about that? I mean, I, you did a startup, let's put you on the spot. I mean, what was your philosophy? Yeah. So my philosophy and kind of what I advise people is this, is that if you've got a marketing budget to work with from day one, okay. Then I would only do fee for service. Okay. Meaning, or assignment of benefits. So you estimate what the insurance will cover.
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You file it on the patient's behalf and then you wait on the check, so to speak. But you stay out of network. If you just have no money to market your practice whatsoever, then I'm more inclined to recommend doing some PPOs, getting some patients in the door and just knowing that within three years, you need to have your transition plan figured out and be on the way out. I much prefer practices to start transitioning out of network and not even get into it if they can, just because like right now, inflation is a great example.
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So prices are rising faster than they ever have in 40 years. And you're still stuck only being able to charge a certain price. So pre COVID and pre inflation, you did 10 crowns and because of the discount you got paid for seven. All right. Well, if you want more money, you can kind of outwork that problem. You can do an extra crown. You can work an extra hour, work an extra day of the week, whatever. But now when things cost $2, it used to cost a dollar and you're only able to charge 50 cents. That's a problem, right? You're getting
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you're doing 10 crowns and get paid for four and you cannot work that problem long-term. So it's, I'd say it's a great time to get out of that. And that's what I'm a membership plan guy. love dental membership plans. And I feel like that's the fee for service model for tomorrow. It's funny that you say that because we just interviewed dental menu, which is my go-to for membership plans, but all of them are great. And I couldn't agree with you more in that department. Folks remember this could be dangerous advice if you don't.
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have skills like Dr. Phelps and his team, it does come down to communication every single day. So if you're not a great communicator, you can't have that conversation about being out of network and getting people into your practice. If you're not 100 % confident in that, like I almost could guarantee Dr. Phelps's team is their masters at communication. Going fee for service right out of the gate could be dangerous. So
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Remember, hone your skills. I love that advice if you have the tools and your team has the training and is really good at having that conversation. But I find that most offices don't have that skill, that training. It's something that you could definitely work up to. And maybe with Dr. Phelps' help, you could get there. But it's all about communication, isn't it? Like you can do anything with great communication. Definitely.
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Again, once you understand what people are using to make their decisions, you stop making your strategies around their excuses and start making it around the real things that they're using. Right. You can make a lot of money if that's what you're trying to do. Have very successful practices by focusing on some of the things like this and not focusing on other things. As a dental consultant, I find myself talking about some of the things that just aren't going to move the needle.
38:03
Uh, supply costs. Sure. We got to manage that, but to drop your supply costs by 1 % is not going to save your ass. Um, but maybe investing $5,000 for your team to get some influence training that would move the needle. So it's amazing how you get into these conversations in general about what actually does move the needle and what doesn't. Um, I think that's what makes great, great business owners. Great.
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leaders in the dental industry, if they focus on the things that actually gonna move the needle. So, doctor, any final thoughts, my friend? Like this has been great. I learned a lot and I know folks did too. How do people get ahold of you? I guess that's the most important thing. Yeah, I mean, the easiest way is if they're interested in Golden Goose, they can email us at support at goldengoosscheduling.com. If you're interested in finding out about my influence and persuasion workshops, can email me at chris at drfelpshelps.
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So email is probably the easiest way to get to me. Awesome. I'm going to have all of his information and Gordon Goose scheduling's information down below in the show notes. Highly suggest that at the very least you call them and listen to their quote unquote pitch. Know that they're going to be using these principles against you.
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I'm joking. I'm totally joking, but it's worth it because as a startup, you have to maximize every opportunity in the first six months to get up off the ground. And this is one of those practice hacks that I believe in and refer. So, Doc, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Folks, reach out to these guys. They know what they're talking about. Thank you. Have a good one.
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Thanks for listening. Tune in next week for another truth-filled episode of Startup Unscripted.