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Each month, Texas State University President Dr. Kelly Damphousse sits down with faculty members, staff, students, alumni, and community members for a conversation about all things TXST — the past, the present, and the bright future of the university.
Part of the TXST Podcast Network: https://www.txst.edu/podcast-network.html
- Was your mentor right? This is the job for you?
- I think so.
- I think so, too. I think what happens, people like you who reflect and think about that experience, you start thinking about, at some point I'm going to find someone that reminds me of me in saying, "You know what? You should go get a PhD and do this thing." That'll happen. If it hasn't happened already, it'll happen, right?
- Yeah.
- I mean, that's part of what we do. This thing tends to be self-perpetuating because people understand the value of what they do. I hope they understand the value of what they're doing and the quality of life that they have because of it, because you're not just like, "Every day I go in and do the same thing over and over again. I actually have a lot of autonomy as a faculty member. I'm doing things I think are important. And I think other people could benefit from this lasting legacy," as you say, you want this to live beyond you. You don't want this thing to end when you're done.
- Right.
- Right? And I'm super excited today that we have my friend Kelly Clary joining us, Associate Professor of Social Work. And so thank you for joining us, Kelly.
- Thank you for having me.
- Kelly. Sorry, we were joking earlier about the fact that we both had the same first name, but different middle names. And so thank you for coming here. And we want to know what you're doing here as a faculty member, because I think it kind of dispels the myths about what faculty members do. When I was a student, I had no idea where faculty came from. I thought they came from Mars and some of them may have. But I think this is kind of a myth-dispelling exercise. People find out what you do when you're not standing in front of the classroom. But before we get there, let's find out about how you got here. So, Kelly, tell us your story. Where did it all start?
- Okay. So I'm from Illinois. I completed all three of my social work degrees from the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign.
- You know, it used to be in the olden days, that was frowned upon. Like, you were expected to go somewhere else for your graduate degrees, but that's much more common now. I think people get it all at the same place.
- Yes, and I think also frowned upon to go straight through, back to back to back, which is something that I did.
- Because it just lasts forever, right?
- Yeah.
- Yeah. Were you thinking at first about becoming a social worker and then you said, "Oh, I guess I can just keep going?"
- I've always been really intrigued by human behavior and why people do things, specifically mental health and substance use. And I knew that social work could offer that perspective of not just about the person, but about how those experiences are impacted by their family, their environments, their communities, policy resources. So, once I got into social work, I feel like I just didn't stop. I'm very open to learning. So it was just a natural, I think, journey to go from BSW, MSW, PhD.
- A lot of social workers will get the BSW and then some of them will get an MSW, still be social workers, right? It's kind of a common thing. But there was a time somewhere along the way you said, "I'm just going to keep on going." Just tell us what the moment was.
- Yeah, so during my MSW, I was a graduate research assistant for the university's counseling center's alcohol and other drug office. And I had this very strong mentor, her name's Elora, still friends with her today. And she asked me, "Have you ever thought about a PhD?"
- I could have predicted the story because that's how it always starts. Someone says, "You know what you should do?" And because you weren't thinking about it, right?
- No, I'm a first generation college student. My parents have their associate's degree, no four-year university degree. And a PhD was never on my mind until she brought it up. And I was like, "Research? I can't do research. What is research?" And she's like, "Well, you're doing it by evaluating the work that we're doing in the community." So, that's where it all started. And I tell that story all the time that I truly owe it to her for where I'm at right now.
- I think almost everyone with a PhD can go back to some mentor who had a PhD that said, "You could do this, too." And most people's response is like, "Really? I don't really see myself doing it." There are some people, I think, maybe because their parents were professors or whatever who always grew up wanting to be a professor, but I think it comes late in most people's lives to have a career like this. And I guess part of it is just it's a gradual progression and you're discovering skills along the way, but at some point someone has to open the door for you. And did you end up working under this person for your doctoral degree as well?
- I didn't. She was still at that university. I wanted to, but I was encouraged to branch out. So, we still had overlap because there was that substance use overlap, but she was not my mentor after that one-year program.
- Okay, so this is a great lesson here that I learned was if someone asks you what your dissertation was, if you can't write it on the back of a matchbook, then it's probably too long. So, give me the elevator speech. What was your dissertation about?
- Okay, so I interviewed 18 to 29-year-old veterans and active service members, and I asked about their developmental and cultural factors that related to their high-risk substance use behaviors.
- Okay, so they were all substance abusers or users?
- They were categorized as high-risk substance use for either alcohol or other substances. And I was really interested in how did military culture and then how did that age range of being an emerging adult play into their substance use behaviors?
- Fascinating. You and I have a lot more in common than I knew. That's very interesting. So, you get your PhD, and you kind of went through, so you're relatively young when you graduate. So, were you going to go into research or become a professor or what were you thinking about doing?
- Looking back, it's very ironic because I said I want to just teach. I'm still scared of research.
- See, I'm the same way. Once I started getting into this, I thought, "Well, maybe I can just be a teacher." And they kind of beat the teaching out of me and beat the research into me, right?
- Yes, 100%. So, I actually had two offers, one at Texas State, and then I had an offer for a postdoc at a VA, and I knew that that VA position would've opened so many doors. But I think because I had gone straight through my three degrees, nine years, I was like, "I want to spread my wings. I want to be more independent in the work that I'm doing." And it was a perfect fit at Texas State for the veteran, specifically, community. And then also the emphasis on teaching, the value of teaching here. Also, a personal piece, my husband played football at Illinois and his dream job was always to be a football coach at some point. We heard that Friday Night Lights, nothing like it in Texas. So, it just was a perfect place for me to be able to professionally grow in my career, and then also a good place for family to come and visit since they live in Illinois.
- Yeah. The wintertime, right?
- Exactly.
- You pay for the mild winters with the summer, which is what we're doing right now. So, you're paying for it right now. But luckily we have air conditioning.
- Exactly.
- So, anyways. I've never done this before on the podcast, but talk us through the recruitment process to become a professor here, because I think a lot of people might not know how you get a job here.
- Yeah, I will say it was pretty unique because it was during 2020.
- Yeah. I didn't think about that.
- Yes, so when I look back to defending my dissertation, I was the last person in my cohort to defend in-person, then went on the job market. The process for interviewing for an academic position is very long, tedious. Started with an online Zoom interview and then got invited to a campus interview where it's a whole, long day marathon, meeting with a lot of-
- It's a forced march, right?
- Yes, meeting with so many faculty, doing a presentation on your research and how you'd be a good fit.
- And your whole, everything depends on that one hour in front of the group.
- Yes.
- Where you're not teaching a class, but in some ways you're judging like, can she teach based on what she's presenting? Is her research publishable? Is there a future plan for the research? But that hour is probably more stressful than the defense of your dissertation because you've got a friendly audience, right? They all want you to succeed in the job interview. To me, that's the most stressful thing I've ever done, is the job talk.
- It was very stressful. It was in a very large auditorium and they-
- Oh, because of COVID, so everything's all spread out.
- Yes, and they invited classrooms, students to be there. I remember going back to my hotel at the end of the day. I was exhausted and the world was about to shut down and I was wondering if my flight was going to be canceled home. And then I was worried if Texas State actually did like me, were they going to even be able to offer me the position because we didn't know what was happening.
- Wow, that's fascinating. Yeah, you're bringing back a lot of bad memories.
- I'm sorry.
- It's funny, though, because I don't think people realize the process, and it actually can be a very long process too. In my discipline, you start applying for jobs in November and December and you might go to a conference and meet with people informally, and then you might have a Zoom and then you might have an in-person thing. And then the in-person thing, you're meeting with students and with faculty and with staff. And sometimes you're meeting with a bunch of faculty back to back to back to back. And it just is a long day and a half. Then you've got dinners and lunches and you're always on your best behavior. I remember one of them going back to my hotel room and just completely collapsing like, holy cow.
- Exhausted, and because it's so much lead-up and preparation, not just for your job talk, which you're pretty confident in, but also doing the research on all the leaders that you're going to be meeting with so that you have something to talk about and you show that you actually are invested in the process.
- Yeah, so, your work as a student at the MSW level and then the PhD level with veterans and with military connected people kind of has led into, as is pretty typical, that's how you get your research started and then your research kind of carries on from there. Sometimes people will shift gears halfway through, but most people, that's the start and that becomes the basis for the future research that you're doing. As most of our viewers know, we're becoming an R1 institution, which means we're hiring faculty members who are engaged in research, and some of it's funded, some of it isn't. But we're doing research hopefully to improve knowledge, to increase the knowledge base of the world around us. But some of our research that we do, especially in disciplines like social work, that there's a real tangible benefit that we think we can actually improve people's lives. In sociology, we call it praxis, which is a research that's aimed at fixing a specific problem or addressing a specific problem. Your research area has really revolved around drugs on the one hand, but also veterans and military connected people as well. So, I want to talk a little bit about, I know you've got like three great projects. And let's talk about the fentanyl one first because I think that's really exciting. It's really appropriate, especially in contemporary times in Texas here. People are really concerned about the fentanyl crisis. It's actually a national pandemic, epidemic, I guess. But let's talk about how you got interested in that and then what you're doing with it.
- So I love talking about FESTA, Fentanyl Education, Support Training, and Awareness. So this came from really the social work perspective, right? The micro, the individual, the meso, the community, and then the macro, the policy. So, in the state of Texas, Tucker's Law was passed in summer 2023, which requires all 6th through 12th graders in the state of Texas in public education to receive annual fentanyl education. So, this was passed. Some school districts don't know how they're going to fulfill that requirement. So, that's where FESTA comes in. We applied for this funding in 2024 and we received about $2 million from SAMHSA to implement substance use education and prevention regarding opioids, specifically fentanyl, across Hayes County. So, what FESTA-
- So it's just Hayes County.
- It is just Hayes County. So, what we have done is we have partnered with three school districts, five community agencies, and we have created seven 45-minute presentations for 6th through 12th graders. Our team goes into the schools. We do those presentations. We evaluate them with pre and post-tests, and then we also do Narcan trainings, outreach events as requested. In the last nine months, we have been in 290 classrooms reaching 6,600 students. And to give that some perspective, our annual goal was 1,800 students, and we have surpassed that. I'm very proud of our team because I wouldn't be able to do all of this alone. We were able to hire about 15 Texas State students to be trained up and do the presentations, go into the community. We work very strategically and collaboratively with community partners. We have a newsletter that over 255 people have signed up for. So, it has grown astronomically over the last two years. We'll be entering year three in October. I could never have pictured the impact that FESTA is having right now.
- So, it's aimed at what age group again?
- 6th through 12th graders.
- 6th through 12th graders.
- Middle school and high school.
- And is it an annual training?
- So, it's an annual presentation that we do.
- So, a student might get it six times.
- Each presentation is a little bit different.
- Oh, that's what I was going to say. There's got to be different by each grade, right?
- Yeah, because what we talk to a 6th grader about is much different than what we talk to a 12th grader about. So, they've been evidence informed. We've met with their school boards, student health advisory committees, as well as leaders within each school district to inform what those presentations look like. And then each summer, before we go into the new school year, we update them based on the data that we received. So, it's a very tedious process, but our school districts are very thankful and grateful for the heavy lifting that we're doing.
- So, talk about the fentanyl problem because people hear about it, but I don't think people understand what the drug is and what the dangers are.
- As you mentioned, the fentanyl crisis. So, we are in the third phase of the opioid epidemic. It started with over-prescribing of prescription medications. It then transitioned into the heroin phase where we were seeing semi-synthetic opioids being made, and now we are at the fentanyl phase. Fentanyl is a fully synthetic opioid. It's very potent, it's very strong, and it's very addictive in nature. We actually have a slide on all of our presentations of why is fentanyl being added to substances if it's so lethal, it's so potent. It's cheap to make. It's very profitable. Only a small amount is needed to be added to various pills that are sold on the street to get somebody hooked. And that's why we see ups and downs, ebbs and flows of overdoses or poisonings, because there's no consistency, there's no quality control of how much is being added. So, it's very profitable, very cheap to make, and it's unfortunately a money-making business.
- Sure, yeah, one of the dangers of course is that you don't know what you're getting. So if you're buying this drug from a classmate, for example, you don't know, it could have no fentanyl in it, or it could have way too much in it and you have no clue about that because it's not prescribed, of course.
- Exactly.
- There's no control over it.
- Exactly.
- It's a controlled substance, but it's not controlled by the producer and the purchaser. You just don't know what you're getting.
- Exactly. That's one of, we have a, can you spot the difference slide, where we have two pitchers of lemonade and one with sugar, one with salt. And by looking at them, can you tell the difference of which one has salt, which one has sugar in it? And the idea is, no, unless you chemically test it, or unless you've watched it being made. So, we have these metaphors and these analogies to hopefully help that information stick with our students. One unique thing about the FESTA program is that we are not in the classroom to tell students what to do or what not to do. We are there to give them information so that they can make informed decisions and feel empowered in the decisions and choices that they're making.
- How did you get the material you're presenting? Is this just something you created or did you borrow from other programs?
- Yeah, very collaborative. Our community agencies, Cenikor, Texas ICON out of UT Health Houston, as well as our faculty team, I have to give a shout out to Dr. Erica Nason, Dr. Ty Schepis, and Dr. Megan Rogers. It was a very heavy lift of creating all these presentations with using evidence-informed materials, things that are already out there. So, not totally recreating the wheel, but making sure it also aligns with what our school districts are looking for and what community agencies such as Cenikor are currently doing in the community.
- One of the easy ways of doing this would've been to create a module where people got online and they clicked through the buttons and so on. But you went with the in-person presentation by a Bobcat. Tell me about the students, but also why you went with that process.
- So, I think our students are amazing. We have students who oftentimes have a personal connection to substance use, whether that's family members or friends. So, there's a lot of passion behind our students wanting to give this information and be out in the community. And then in regards to the heavy lift of it being in-person, we know that the information, the skills, the interactivity has been proven to be effective in retention of knowledge. So we're not just at the classroom sharing the information. We're doing role-plays of how to call 911 for help.
- Oh, really?
- We're doing pair-shares of like, you're at a party and your friend is passed out, what would you do? Or somebody offers you a pill because you have an exam next week, what are you going to do, right? So, really thinking about skills that are applicable and transferable to different situations. And I think some of those opportunities just can't be matched in an online module setting. So, again, we do the heavy lifting in the classroom because we truly believe that's making a lasting impact.
- That's awesome. So again, it's research that has a real value where you're actually improving and changing people's lives, but also there's a real safety element here as well for young people. So, let's shift gears now, talk about a couple of your other projects. I love the one called BRAVE. You're really good at coming up with acronyms. And so BRAVE, tell us about BRAVE.
- BRAVE stands for Building Resilience and Advancing Veteran Engagement. So, this is a newly funded project through PCORI, or Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute, all the acronyms, right?
- Yeah, I know, it's hard to keep track.
- Exactly. So, this is a project that we have been working over two years on getting funded and will officially start September 1st. So this is a project focused on community engagement with veterans in Texas and our Caring Circles support members. So those who support veterans, spouses, children, parents, battle buddies in understanding moral injury. So we'll be working alongside veterans in Texas and then Caring Circle members to understand more about their experiences as it relates to moral injury.
- What do you mean by moral injury?
- Yes.
- You were waiting for that, right?
- I was waiting for that. Okay, so moral injury has now been recognized more broadly. It is this phenomenon that somebody experiences, witnesses, or fails or is unable to respond to an event or situation that conflicts with their morals, beliefs or values. We see that those who experience moral injury are often concerned in questioning whether or not what they did was right or wrong. And we see a lot of this leading to feelings of shame or betrayal or guilt.
- It really is an injury because it kind of lasts with you. It's similar in a way to PTSD, right? But it's not just, "I experienced something bad. Now I'm reflecting on what I did and did I do what I always thought I would do?" And there's a real connection there with the other project where you're doing role-playing in advance. And one of the things I think about when I think about trying to protect people from doing something badly, let's talk about it in advance so that when you're in the middle of something, you know what to do, which is when you do a lot of first aid training, you want them to actually learn how to put a tourniquet on and to get a tourniquet put on themselves, for example, or to know this is how you call for help. Make sure you get help before you start doing this thing. And you do it a few times and it becomes natural. But in this case, they're seeing something or experiencing something and then now replaying it and going, "Oh, I wish I would've done this or I wish I hadn't done this." And that really starts to affect who you are and your capacity to keep moving forward.
- Right, and I think we see some overlap as it relates to their own identity. Oftentimes, veterans might have a challenging transition to civilian life and how that intersects. And I think we're seeing a lot of veterans who may have characterized an event as PTSD actually instead being moral injury because we see the distinction between moral injury and PTSD of PTSD really resonating more with the fear rather than that shame, betrayal.
- Yeah, there's a distinction there. They're both psychological effects, but one is more about, "Boy, something really terrible happened to me and I'm still kind of reliving it," versus, "Now that I think about this, maybe I'm not the person I thought I was," for example, and that shame builds into that.
- Right.
- That's really interesting. I had not heard that before. Another project you have is TexVet Legacy Project. Tell us about that.
- Okay, so this is our second-
- You're full of projects.
- I know, and if I looked back six years ago, I'd have no idea how many grants I would be leading. So TexVet Legacy, this is funded through the US Department of Veterans Affairs. This is our second time we're receiving this mechanism. So, all veterans who are buried or interred in a VA-funded cemetery across the United States have a Veteran's Legacy Memorial page online through the VA.
- I did not know that.
- So, this mechanism, this grant mechanism is funding universities and organizations to collect stories of veterans who have passed away and to fill up those pages with pictures, memorabilia, and interviews to honor those veterans who have passed away. So, we completed this funding a year and a half ago where we collected 55 stories. This year, our goal is 40 stories. We'll be expanding our summer institute. So we'll be hosting a summer institute with K-12 teachers in the state of Texas to learn about this project and then for them to implement it into their classrooms so that they can continue collecting stories. The 40 stories that we're collecting will be of those who are interred in a VA-funded cemetery in Texas, and there's 10 of those. We'll be doing two cemetery visits, and then we'll be creating thirteen K-12 lesson plans. We'll be expanding our OER resources, and then we'll also be creating an interpretive walking tour with one of the cemeteries.
- That's really cool because I think all of us worry about, "You know, when I'm gone, who'll remember me?" And especially those who were in the service, they may have had distinguished careers, but their legacy may not live beyond their family members talking about them, but you're creating a lasting legacy for people who never even knew these people to now read about them. And many of them did incredibly honorable and heroic things.
- Absolutely.
- And we're going to learn about them now.
- Yeah, and increasing that accessibility for maybe some who are unable to visit a cemetery, they can go online to the VLM. And we see research about, after 10 years, those things that are online might be lost. So, we want to make sure that those stories are being told. And we also see it as an opportunity to bridge that military-civilian divide and for this generation who's in school right now to learn more about those veterans, to learn about their legacies, and for us to continue honoring them in different ways.
- I saw something recently about this kind of new idea of putting a QR code on your tombstone. So, someone could go up there and go, oh. And it's a video of you talking like, "Hey, my name's Kelly and this is what I did." And so I think it's another way of kind of adding to someone's life beyond just the tombstone itself. But these stories sound remarkable. The fact that they're online and accessible beyond the graveyard is really remarkable for young people to be able to look at these things and maybe look up a family member and find out something about them they didn't know before.
- Absolutely.
- Yeah. This doesn't sound very social work-y, I think, when people think about social work, but it is social work, right?
- Oh, 100%. All the research and the work that I lead, my philosophy, my vision, my mission is research with and alongside. So, anybody who has a lived experience of the issue that we're working with, they need to be at the table. They need to be creating solutions for those challenges. I am all about, in my position as a professor, bridging academia and community for lasting impact. And I think FESTA is doing that. BRAVE is going to do that. TexVet Legacy is also doing that. So, it's very much community engaged, community focused for impact.
- 15 years from now, you and I are gathered together again. I'll be long retired by then and you'll be a full professor and so on. Distinguished professor. What will you have done since today by then? What's the future look like for you?
- I think the future, I want to continue building on the projects that I have started to lead. I want to just keep snowballing that. And also, as a leader, I want to build teams that can continue doing the work without me being present.
- That's a great legacy, right? You create something that lives beyond you.
- 100%. Yeah. Always the idea of leaving something better than it was. How is that quote?
- Leave it better than when you found it.
- Exactly. Yes. So, I think that's always my goal when I go into a project and thinking about things being sustainable beyond my ability to be present in it.
- Was your mentor right? This is the job for you?
- I think so.
- I think so, too. I think what happens, people like you who reflect and think about that experience, you start thinking about, at some point, I'm going to find someone that reminds me of me in saying, "You know what? You should go get a PhD and do this thing."
- Yeah.
- That'll happen. If it hasn't happened already, it'll happen, right?
- Yeah.
- I mean, that's part of what we do. This thing tends to be self-perpetuating because people understand the value of what they do. I hope they understand the value of what they're doing and the quality of life that they have because of it, because you're not just like, "Every day I go in and do the same thing over and over again. I actually have a lot of autonomy as a faculty member. I'm doing things I think are important. And I think other people could benefit from this lasting legacy," as you say, you want this to live beyond you. You don't want this thing to end when you're done.
- Right.
- Right? All right, Kelly, so this is the exciting part for me because all the pressure is off me because now you are the podcast host. These are questions that are submitted by our listeners and I have no idea what's in there. So, you ask me the question with your best podcast voice. I will answer, and then if it's a good one, I'll ask you to answer the question, too, so get ready.
- Okay. All right. So.
- That's a great podcast voice.
- If you could host a talk show, who would your first three guests be?
- Okay. So, Jerry Seinfeld, number one. I think he's brilliant. He's really funny because he can be funny without being blue and you have to be smart to be funny that way. So, I think he's brilliant. So, Jerry Seinfeld's got to be up there. I would say, you know, I had a great experience, we had George W. Bush speak at one of our events and he was president during 9/11. And I remember a moment, and I was a terrorism researcher, so I was really super hyper-involved. When he went to Ground Zero and he had the bullhorn, and he's talking to the firefighters, and that moment is just etched in my mind. And I'd love to chat with him more about that moment. We actually had the Chancellor of the Texas University system interview him, so I didn't get a chance to do it, but he actually brought that up and it was like, "Man, I wish I could have like dived in on that." So, probably George W. Bush. Jerry Seinfeld. And then Mr. Jim McNinch, and you don't even know who this guy is.
- Should I pretend I do?
- Yeah, no, you don't. Because he was my grade 11 and grade 12 English teacher, and I tell his story all the time. So I was, like... I was kind of a nerdy kid. My mom taught me how to read and write before I went to school, and so I skipped kindergarten. And so I was always kind of academic advanced. I loved to read. I played Dungeons and Dragons and had a great imagination. I loved to write. And in grade 11, I was like his superstar kid. And in grade 12, first day of class, I was just jacking around the back of the class. And he kind of called me out. We had a moment. And that moment was a signature moment for me. Like, it changed my life. And you probably had teachers who said something or did something. And this moment was, it was like a tough love moment. Like, he called me out in front of the whole class and then after when the bell rang, he called me over and kind of chewed me out and said, "You can be better than this," and so on. And I'd love to chat with him about that moment because I've reached out to him since and said, "You know, you changed my life." And he says, "I have no idea who you are." And he says, "I surely never said something like that." Because he said, "What happened over the summer that turned your brain into mush?" He said, "I would never say that to a student. I said, "Mr. McNinch, I didn't make that up. I think about that every day." But I would like to have that conversation with him again and say, "Can you delve back a little further into 1979 when you and I had this conversation?" To see if he does remember it. So, what about you?
- Okay, I can-
- Three people. Just three people that are going to come on your talk show.
- Yes. Okay. If you could host a talk show, who would your first three guests be? Okay. I can only think of two right now. Adam Sandler.
- Okay. Funny guy.
- I think he's hilarious. Oprah Winfrey.
- Okay.
- I've always looked up to her. I remember in 8th grade I had to write a research paper and that's who I wrote it on.
- Chicagoan?
- Yes.
- Illinoisian, as they say.
- Yes. I want to say a third one should be like a family member.
- Yeah.
- I don't know.
- The origin story. We want to hear the origin story of you.
- Yeah.
- Was I always so precocious? Was I always so smart? Was I always so witty?
- Yeah.
- Who would you have, mom or dad?
- That's a toss-up.
- Okay.
- That is a toss-up.
- Do you have older siblings or younger siblings?
- Younger siblings.
- Oh, you're the oldest?
- I'm the oldest.
- Okay.
- Yeah. I think I would probably, my husband's going to love this, but I would have him on.
- Okay.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, why not? No one knows you better.
- Exactly. That's a little scary, but yeah.
- You know, that's, Beth and I talk about this a lot. Like, she knows everything about me. Like, she knows like people think certain things about me. She knows. "Yeah, he's not like that." There's a George Strait song says, "Yeah, you know me better than that. Like, she thinks I like her cat. I don't love her cat. You know me better than that." So, anyways, well, thank you for sharing that. I want to see that talk show now. So, that's a great guest list. Thank you so much for coming and sharing your story with us. I can't wait, well, 15 years from now, let's get together and talk about it and see whatever happened.
- Sounds good.
- But it's exciting to see you here. I know it had to be a tough start teaching Fall of 2020, masks and shields and all this stuff and all this separation.
- Very unique. Very unique.
- A tough way to start. But here you are, you're halfway through a brilliant career and you're doing things that are actually changing people's lives, which I think is very valuable. I think sometimes people worry about, you know, why are we a research university and what are you doing with all this research? There actually is an ROI here. Like, I don't know if you can measure it, but people's lives are being improved because of the research that you're doing. So, thank you for doing that.
- Thank you.
- Yeah, thank you for sharing with us and thank you all for joining us here at The Current where we find out what's going on at Texas State. Until next time, state's up everyone.