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Welcome to the Raising Up Fathers Podcast. We are here to champion men to thrive in their four main roles: son, husband, father, and brother.
Through testimonies and best practices. Our goal is to help you look a little more like Jesus in the areas that matter the most. Our vision is to raise up ten thousand fathers in the name of Jesus. You can find out more at raisingupfathers.com
If what you heard today encouraged you, please share it with a friend.
Welcome to the Raising Up Fathers podcast. We are here to champion men to thrive in their four main roles as son, husband, father, and brother. Through testimonies and best practices, our goal is to help you look a little bit more like Jesus in the areas that matter the most. Our vision is to raise up 10,000 fathers in the name of Jesus. You can find out more at raisingupfathers.com.
Speaker 1:On today's episode of the Raising Up Fathers podcast, we have Michael Boone from Waco, Texas, and we're talking about friendship. The real kind. The kind that builds men up. The kind that takes intentionality, vulnerability, and a willingness to show up. You'll hear from Doc Mike on how he has become a good friend, why he believes God has designed us to need each other, and how the simple habit like sending morning texts turned to a lifeline for his community.
Speaker 1:We'll unpack what Doc Mike thinks about brotherhood and friendship, the power of encouragement and accountability, and why so many men struggle to pursue meaningful relationships. If you've ever felt lonely or unsure how to build real connection, we hope that this episode will give you hope and a few practical steps to get started because we weren't meant to do life alone. So let's talk about how to pursue the kind of friendship your soul is craving. If you like this podcast, please share it with a friend. To learn more, visit us at raisingupfathers.com or visit us on social media.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Raising Up Fathers podcast. This is your friend, Zach, and I'm here with my friend, Michael Boone. Michael, say hello.
Speaker 2:Hello, everybody.
Speaker 1:Michael Boone, is a good friend of mine. We call him Doc Mike. He was at the, Raising Up Ten Thousand Fathers Summit last January. And how was that for you, Michael?
Speaker 2:That was great. That was my second year to go. Man, it was just so sweet. This year I mean, this year was different because we had so many good friends from Waco come, and my brother came. Brother-in-law.
Speaker 2:I just think it was I don't know. It's so special. All of it was good.
Speaker 1:Man, I totally forgot that you not only had all of your all of your buddies there, but you brought, like, your brother, your brother-in-law. Like, you had a crew, bro.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I had a great crew. Loved it. I my brother is like one of my closest friends. And he was I mean, he's always been like a rock spiritually.
Speaker 2:But there was some sense of dryness for him coming into that weekend that was, like, watered, I would say. And I don't know. That just made it extra special. So I do that with him and be with him there.
Speaker 1:Man, so it's been a couple months since our summit. Tell me as you look back, what do you feel like the Lord taught you or or showed you? Taught or showed?
Speaker 2:I mean, I you know what? I left And during that time and I kinda said this the other night with you, but I just was reminded literally that people and relationships are just, like, the most valuable thing we have. And so I think one thing God showed me, reminded me was just being
Speaker 1:I mean, how many people were there? 100 and 100. 30.
Speaker 2:And you're just like, this is a hundred and thirtieth, like, just amazing and it sounds a it's a weird word to use for men, but I'm like, these are just, like, beautiful people of God. And I when my heart is close to God, I find myself enjoying people in a different like, just feels like a dimension is there that's not always there. And so I I I remember multiple times that weekend, whether it's with y'all, my brother, random people, I'm just I just want this is the this is richness. You know? This is the best.
Speaker 2:Yep. So I was just my reminded, encouraged that people are just one of the best things that we have even though it's can be the messiest or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man. It's a it's a big deal. It's almost like we were made for relationships, Michael. Dude, that is it.
Speaker 2:Oh, That's it.
Speaker 1:Alright. So Doc Mike here in Waco, Texas. Michael and I have been friends since I moved here, so it's been four years. Golly. That's crazy.
Speaker 1:But, I will let you tell us about yourself. But, man, why Michael is on this podcast is because he is one of the best guys I know at developing relationships. I mean, you are an amazing friend. And so today, we're gonna kinda focus on the fourth role, and that is that of being a friend, being a kind of brother. Right?
Speaker 1:And supporting each other as we invest into the roles as son, husband, and father. But, okay. So who who is Michael Boone?
Speaker 2:Thanks for saying that, by the way. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. We I've in Biker for five years.
Speaker 2:I think in brief, I grew up in an awesome family with six kids and a really fun family. I think it ties into the friendship piece, honestly. You know, a lot of stuff there that in any family, but I grew up in a just a vibrant household that valued people in our house and grew up in a kind of a young life world. So even when I was little, there's just like was always high school kids in our home. And, you know, moved out of there, went to UT in Austin, and I'm kinda answering this question through the lens of friendship even though you didn't ask me that.
Speaker 2:But went to UT where my older brothers had gone was for me, Young Life was a big part of that. So we got connected with Young Life and thought I was probably gonna be really thought I was gonna be a missionary. I was, like, involved in a pretty vibrant church that was sending a lot of missionaries. My brother was overseas, and I had a pretty like, I I definitely, through college, had this streak of kinda inner loneliness spiritually where I think I was just trying to earn so much in God's like, just trying to earn God's favor through mostly through spiritual means, you know, doing the right stuff. And there were some amazing ways that God kind of broke in that that world and still is.
Speaker 2:And honestly, 10,000 Fathers was a piece of that. But in short, graduated from UT, thought I gonna be a missionary that kind of fell through. Started teaching at high school I'd done Young Life at. Was kinda dating my wife at that time and working and living with refugees and had a couple of experiences where I felt like God, like, spoke really clearly to me as much as I know how to discern his voice to pursue medicine. And so that took us from Austin to medical school in Fort Worth.
Speaker 2:Was married for a short amount of time then. And, you know, the last, really, last four, seven, nine years has been kind of the early part of medical school residency. My wife and I from right before medical school till now have five kids. They're ages one to nine. And, yeah, in this season in Waco now, I'm two years out of training and just kind of living life with five kids and working as a family medicine doctor and work, you know.
Speaker 2:Obviously, I'm, you know, moving next week to Austin, but that's been a sweet part of my life is getting to work in that world. But a lot of my life is just all of our life, being a dad and husband and trying to be a good friend to people and be intentional with other people, that's kinda me.
Speaker 1:Man, so with all that you have going on, you know, you're married, you got five kids under the age of 10, you're a doctor, like, all of that. Tell me how important it is for you to surround yourself with other men
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And the impact that that has on you.
Speaker 2:And you kind of made that joking comment of we were made for this. Well, I wasn't joking at all. But that's as I was thinking about this topic today, you know, that is if we believe that statement's true, I think it holds so much of the mystery and even the practicality of this conversation in the sense that I I not only believe that's true theologically, biblically, but I think, like, you and I, most people were close to it. We've experienced the need for that. Like, were really and if there's something you weren't made for and you try to exist without, like, you're gonna some part of you is gonna manifest that and you'll wither in some way.
Speaker 2:And so I think kind of where our treasure is, like, our heart will be also. Like, if we I I feel like all I'm saying is, yeah, life's full right now. It doesn't feel frantic or over like, too busy. And I've learned, and my wife is totally on board with this, that if through this whole process, if we weren't prioritizing, pursuing, keeping like friendship as a core part of the equation of our life, that it will cost us in some way. And that sounds that's like the negative aspect.
Speaker 2:The positive aspect is like, we just love it. And we love friendships are one of the most beautiful parts of God's kingdom that we can experience now. And I think because we've had that in the past, we've been taught how to do that in the past, which we can talk about that later. But I think we all came into this season always saying, you know, friends are an important part of our our daily schedule, our weekly schedule. How do we keep this, you know, alive and flourishing?
Speaker 1:Man, I had someone tell me once that there's a couple of things that you can only experience here on Earth. Right? And it's like you can only experience forgiveness here on earth because whenever you get to heaven, there isn't gonna be any sin, so you're not gonna have to forgive. And I wonder if the same thing is true with friendships. Like, we need that support.
Speaker 1:We need those men surrounding us to encourage us and to pick us up whenever we fall down. And I wonder if there's an aspect of that that you can only experience here on Earth. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Kinda crazy. That's crazy to think about. Yeah. I think there's I've never thought about that before. I think the positive the the examples you listed, I think will be only experienced.
Speaker 2:Like some of those that's part of the richest part of friendship is carrying each other through hard situations and that like builds so much depth. But I would imagine a lot of the celebrating together, rejoicing together, even like whatever work will look like in heaven together, I think we'll taste I think we're foretasting all of that now.
Speaker 1:So tell me what it means, Michael, in your own eyes to be a good be a good brother, be a good friend.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You mentioned some of the good ones. You know, the things that come to mind when I think about that is to be a good friend, you have to be personally grounded in some in some measure and measure. Like, they're the first step of being a good friend is having an established friendship, relationship, rootedness, hiddenness in Christ. And that's a place where you can offer something, you know?
Speaker 2:And not friendship's all about offering something, but there's a I mean, that's a beautiful part of all of us that we're We are offering ourselves to one another, you know? So I think that's the first step of being a good friend is being rooted. And then a lot of it, I think, is just logging fill in the blank together. Like, being a good friend means if you're with someone, like first and foremost, you're with them, you're spending time with them, you're listening to them, you're discerning, you
Speaker 1:know,
Speaker 2:you're praying with them and for them. And I mean, all these things that I think are so hard to do, but you know I think a good friend knows when to gloss over things, and a good friend knows when to step in and say something hard. And all of that, I think, comes back to the first point because if I mean, you can do that with each other if there's a measuredness to your personal character with Christ, you know. And then I think the the fun piece of this, I think friends, there's some component of joy and playfulness, and I think it can solely be a heart for God's kingdom. Like, that might be the only thing you have in common.
Speaker 2:And I think that's enough to have a vibrant friendship. But there's some, obviously, I'm not the first person to say this, but some specialness of friendship of, know, the me too moment that Lewis talks about that has to be some part of the friendship.
Speaker 1:I don't know what that means. I don't
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. I I won't I'll butcher the quote, but when CS Lewis talks about friendship, he says friendship starts at that moment when someone says me too, and there's that acknowledgement of, oh, me too. We we both feel this way, or we both enjoy this thing, or whether it's like hoops or your career or a hobby. But I I have found some of my most natural friendships, you have a lot of those, you know? But actually, as I look back, some of my deepest friendships don't necessarily have that.
Speaker 2:And it was mostly just this love for God. So
Speaker 1:That's good, man. So who who modeled this well for you in your teenage years or in your college years? Like, who taught you how to be a good friend? Because I have heard multiple people say, Michael, like, man, he is such a
Speaker 2:good friend to all. So sweet. Well and I mean, I wish I'll get to you because you've modeled that for me here. But I think this is, like, such the humbling piece of this conversation is we really are typically we should be good at things that have been modeled to us and taught for us. And I'd feel some level of what's the language?
Speaker 2:It's like, feel like my wife and I have talked about this. We've been entrusted with friendship because it's been taught and modeled to us. So for me in high school and early on, it was probably my mom. And then my dad is relational, but he worked a lot and was mostly relational with us. But my mom was just a friend to so many people.
Speaker 2:And so I watched her have people in her house. Like, there was so much friendship that just happened in front of
Speaker 1:me that I was absorbing. So, like, tell me some specific things that she did that you saw and you're like, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Some of my earliest memories is her well, she was a young life leader, but she would have her peers and high school kids over. Yeah. She would have her peers and high school kids over as a young life leader. And, you know, I was I remember being six, seven, eight watching, like like, Ninja Turtles and there being her friends sitting at the table with a high school girl, oftentimes laughing, doing silly things, But I could always tell when they were talking about something serious and just my mom would just talk with them for a long time. That's one of the earliest examples I think about.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to think whatever what else comes to mind at that point. I mean, my brother I I'm the youngest of four boys and the two younger sisters, and especially the brother two years older than me, Andrew, he you know, and his whatever way a seventh, eighth, and ninth grader knew, he was a good friend. And he was always with his friends, and I was able to hang out with them. So I think that early phase that kids' needs of just enjoying one another was just like my house was full of that. You know?
Speaker 2:And then I can stop there if you want, I can keep going on that into college. But Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I mean, in college, I had good friends in high school, had a young life leader who would invite us over and I think modeled a lot of the getting deeper in friendship, you know, confessing a lot of what that looks like in the high school adolescent years.
Speaker 2:That's good, and you need to, like, see and taste. But then in college, stepped into a community of people, again, through Young Life just was the flavor I was in and through church, where there was just a momentum of friendship at UT when I was there. And it was kind of the norm for a lot of these people I was around to be living in houses together. And, you know, they were so fun, like the most fun people in the world and silly. But then there was this element of like, you know, we wake up together and we pray and read the Bible and we talk about things we're struggling with and we encourage one another a lot.
Speaker 2:That environment was full of encouragement. And and I mean, just like speaking life into people, telling people what you see in them. It was almost, like, too much sometimes, but I'm like, that was just fertilizer for friendship. And then Brett, who you and I both know, Brett Rogers, who at that time was the director of College on Life at UT, he discipled a ton of people in small groups and then had a lot of people he met with one on one. And Brett and I spent tons of time together.
Speaker 2:And he had some key things that he just would go back to every time, you know. And forgiveness, thankfulness, friendship were probably the top three. And Brett had this ridiculous joke that he still says this. He's a minister his whole life that he's the richest person in the world, and he just dogs people that all the time. I'm the richest person in the world.
Speaker 2:And all his old UT kids who are, like, working in the private equity, he's like, you got nothing on me, you know? And the thing is he's he's right. And he you just sense this wealth that he has and friendship. And I mean, in terms of modeling and teaching friendship, he's probably had the biggest impact on on my life in that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's awesome, man. So, like, share with us what are some of the specific things that you do that invest into your friendship? That is kind of that it's almost like a fertilizer. Right?
Speaker 1:What what are the actions in case someone's like, hey. I wanna know how to become a better friend. Why don't you share with me some of your tips?
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's a great question. I some of this is with Ellie and I, and some of this is just me personally. We have some piece where we meet every week before the week starts, and, you know, a lot of people do some version of a marriage meeting. And a part of that is, like, who do we need to connect?
Speaker 2:Is there any relationships we need to connect with? So that's kind of a family piece. At this point in my life, a lot of that for me, and you kinda mentioned this in one of your questions, and this isn't this is so practical, but it it can it can often overflow from time with God. And what I mean by that is I find when I spend time alone with Jesus, and, you know, that can take on so many flavors, there's a sense of connecting with him, being with him, and oftentimes there's God put someone on my heart that I just respond to. You know?
Speaker 2:I feel like you're the champ you're like the king of this, and I've learned even from you this. So that's something that happens multiple times a week where someone just comes to mind. I I feel like that's one good friendship practice is if someone is put on your mind, it doesn't need to be this spiritual, like, God put you on my heart. It can be, but it's, like, so easy and practical to just reach out to them. Like, call them, text them, send them a voice memo, maybe ask if you can hang out.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's you and them. For me in this phase of my life, a lot of it's, there's not I can't get a lot of personal time with guys. A lot of it's around family. But I think that's the most practical thing I do is just when someone comes to mind, like, it's maybe act on it, you know, with a text message or a call. I know.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to we're laughing at each other. Yeah. No. No. Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's not yeah. Most I think there's practical things like setting up things that I generally feel compelled to do and maybe a little bit more inclined to do is set up maybe like a we've done book clubs or prayer meetings, you know. But even that, it always comes from like, I get excited about something and then you're inviting people to share share it. So I I don't think I'm, like, super good at initiating, but it's it's probably a little bit more of my strength is taking something gets put on my heart, and I'm like, I'm gonna do something about this. You know?
Speaker 2:And I find most there's always gonna be guys in your life that are probably gonna say yes to something with a pretty simple entry level, a phone call or, hey. I thought of this idea. Let's read this book together. And most people, I think, will say yes, and then it's what happens, like, the next week that matters. Like, do you say, okay.
Speaker 2:Let's do it this time on this day. And, you know, that that that's usually, like, the block for people, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I just think that there's so much power in as a leader, as a man, inviting. And just, like, who doesn't like to get invited to something? You know, who doesn't like to get that early morning text message, the early, early morning kind of voice memo? Right?
Speaker 1:Like, there's so much power in that. Yeah. And it keeps us connected. Right? Like, especially now as there's so much going on, work and kids and marriage and everything like that, like, staying connected is harder than ever.
Speaker 1:Right? Like, it was so easy to stay connected in high school because you saw them every day because you were at school together. It was so easy to stay connected in college because you've lived with these people. Totally. But now, that's a challenge, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Do you think you should share, like, your morning practice at all? I've been like, reaching out to people.
Speaker 1:Man, I kinda do the same thing. Right? Just like my favorite thing to do in the morning, Michael, is to go on a walk. And, you know, I do my, like, I do my, like, song of worship to kinda get my heart right, then I spend some time with the Lord. And then I was like, okay, okay, Lord, is there anyone who, you want me to encourage?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And just like the voice memo, man, is like my best friend. Like, I just love a good voice memo.
Speaker 2:I've been the beneficiary of that, and it's such a blessing.
Speaker 1:Well, it is from my perfect my perspective, it is more powerful than a text because you can hear the tones. And, I mean, you can hear their voice. Like, you can hear the, you know, voice inflections. Like Yeah. It's a big deal.
Speaker 1:Like, man, I was talking to Ben or Ben sent me a voice memo yesterday, and it was so encouraging. And I was like, I'm a save this. And less. So if I ever have a hard day, I can just pull up some some of my voice memos and be like, okay.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But, man, so, like, why is it that so many men find themselves lonely? Why why is it that so many men, don't have a bunch of men surrounding them to encourage them, to support them, almost like a band of brothers.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I this was the question that I was chewing on the most because in some ways, don't know. But the things that came to my mind as I thought about this were a few things. One is you just don't know what you haven't been taught and modeled, and most young boys didn't grow up in homes where dads modeled friendship, either with them or with I think, honestly, equally important with their own friends. And so it's not this, you know, we tend towards disorder, and we don't tend towards intimacy with one another.
Speaker 2:And so if it's not modeled to you, then that's your it's gonna be an uphill battle. And then I think for a lot of people, what's maybe more concerning to me in some ways, I think maybe you should be more convicting is, like, it's not people's treasure, like, priority. And I think there are a lot of people who have tasted that and are in a season of life like you and me with young kids, and there's just things that are taking priority to that, you know. And then every everywhere in between, like, you have the people who that, yeah, they do treasure it, but they don't know where to start, and it wasn't modeled. Are they been hurt by somebody?
Speaker 2:You know? But I I think, honestly, those are two of the things that it's not been entrust they haven't learned and seen it or it's just not what they treasure, you know? And like, this is a business quote, and sorry, Zach, but a Dallas Fuller quote, but or your system is perfectly designed to get the results that you're getting. And so if you if your fringe if your world of friendship is not deep and you don't feel connected to people, like, there's this some system in place that you're carrying out that's not set up to produce intimate friendship. And so there's something there's just something there.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's the hopeful piece. Like, there's an actionable piece for I really think for anybody to have close relationships.
Speaker 1:Do you remember your dad having any good friends?
Speaker 2:Yes. I do. But that is something there's a few that I remember him having, but I especially as I was in college and even my dad and I have had some of these conversations now. I didn't see my dad having really vibrant, consistent friendships in front of me. I've learned, because my dad's kind of a quiet, like, anchor servant, like, deep man of God, that there was a lot of relationships he had where he was a little bit more of the and my dad is this is a little bit of a type as an an addictions doctor, so he people are often coming to him in their darkest places.
Speaker 2:And so he had this and he had intimate relationships with people. But he he would say, and we've talked about this, that that wasn't necessarily one of his strengths, and he tends a little bit more towards, you know, being alone. And I think with six kids and working a lot, you know, that was harder for him, but
Speaker 1:Like, I found as a father, right, it's like I try to have men over to my house. Like, you know, I have I have a group of guys, Adam Tooze. We meet every week. And if I can, I'm like, guys, y'all come over my house. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I make sure that they come over before my kids, like, have to have to take off to go to school because I want them to see that. And, I mean, we're we're always doing things with our kids. And I there is in kind of this selfish, like, hey, come over to my house so my kids can witness this because so much more is Scott than Todd. Yeah. And I want my kids to see their dad doing a couple things.
Speaker 1:One, I want them to see me early in the morning in God's word. Number two, I want them to see me being discipled by an older man. Number three, I want them to see me having friends. Number four, I want them to see me investing into, younger men. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I'm like, okay. If I can do those four things, then I believe that that's gonna set my kids up for success Yeah. In relationships, which right? Like, it is not good for man to be alone. That is I think what's so crazy, Michael, is it's not good for man to be alone.
Speaker 1:That happened before sin entered the world. So even in the the perfectness of the Garden of Eden, we still needed each other. Yeah. And so, man, it's just crazy. But
Speaker 2:No. That's I we I don't know if we've said this yet, but I think the pre fall thing that the one of the beautiful mysteries of this whole conversation is that we're made in the image of a triune God whose very nature is relational. I mean, think that is the the heartbeat of this conversation. It's actually who we are relational beings, you know, just as much I think as a bird is made to fly, you know, or a fish is made to be in the water and some flavor with all this being unique. And I know you and I both care about personalities and changes and individuals, but that's who we are.
Speaker 1:And this world tries to keep us from that. I mean, whether it's being busy or whether it's this idea of what a man looks like, a man doesn't open up, a man doesn't cry, a man doesn't need anyone. Yeah. A man is self sufficient. A man is isolated.
Speaker 1:Right? Like, there are so many things that are kinda working against this idea of men having relationships, and and that is the enemy at work. Yeah. I mean, if you take a look at some of the statistics, like men are in a awful spot. And I think a huge part of that has to do with the fact that they're just lonely.
Speaker 1:Totally. So so, man, like, what what are some things that we need to bring to the relationship in order for it to give life?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think I I kinda wanna respond to what you were saying and ask that question at the same time because to me, as you say that, there's almost a, like a fire inside of me that wells up a purpose because wherever we are, like the men we're interacting with, a lot of them are just dry. And I think as much as the world is working against that, like men's hearts are just desperate for that. And I don't think, to kinda answer the second question, like, I don't think it takes that much. You know?
Speaker 2:I think it takes if if men who are, generally measured in spirit and have a contentedness about them and a security about them in Christ. And they show up and almost, you know, with some level of, like, social wisdom, but show up and are honest with other men and and inviting them over for dinner or, you know, if it's a it's so fun if it can be a hobby. And you can ask good questions. And, I mean, I think even more that the follow through just means so much. Like, so many people can have a good conversation with someone, and we live in a world where people are really good at that to get what they want.
Speaker 2:But if you if you can show up, care for somebody, and then follow through with any level of consistency, there's I think there's so much grace. Like, I feel like I dropped the ball so often with my friends of following up. You know, they were gonna they told me something hard was coming up, and I'm well, I wish I would have texted them before or whatever. But even that, we all know that we're have stuff going on. And so I think if if you start to do that with people, the I mean, you will you will reap what you sow in that pretty fast with friendship.
Speaker 2:And I I just think the the consistency and the follow through go so far.
Speaker 1:Man, so there's a lot of guys out there, right, who have never experienced this. And maybe they don't know how to interact with men. And the only thing that they they do know is, you know, talk about sports, talk about the weather, talk about work, talk about you know, or they're sarcastic. They start to make fun of each other. Like, tell me what you would say to someone who hasn't experienced this and are and are terrifying.
Speaker 1:Right? Like, woah, You want me to open up and share my heart with other men? Like, tell me why I should do that and how I do it and yeah.
Speaker 2:Just Yeah. All all of it. I I can go first, but I almost want you to answer that question first. Do you do you have an initial piece of advice?
Speaker 1:I mean, I think being vulnerable and opening up your heart I mean, it's so hard, Michael. Like, it it really is. One, you know, kinda like what you were saying. First and foremost, you have to be in touch with your own heart. Oh.
Speaker 1:Amen. So it's like there are so many guys out there who they're not connecting with other men at a heart level because they're not connecting with their own heart. Yes. And so that's why, you know, whenever we talk about the four main roles, right, the first one is sonship. It's like you and God.
Speaker 1:And God is a he's a God of the heart. You know, search my heart. And he talks about how the heart is heart is the wellspring of life. And so I would say this, like, are you creating margin in your life to check on the status of your heart? Yeah.
Speaker 1:And to know what's going on and to say, man, I'm I am lonely or I am fearful or I am having a hard time in these areas. And there's no way that you can tell other people that if you can't even tell that to yourself. Yes. And so I would say the first thing is just being aware of your heart. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then the second thing is it's I think it's the most courageous thing that a man can do Mhmm. Is to let another man into their heart. Yeah. And I would say, like, you kinda have to inch your way in. Right?
Speaker 1:So it's like, hey, if you're having a hard time at work and you're having fear and anxiety and dah dah dah, and some guy's like, hey, man. How's it going? Instead of just saying, oh, yeah. Great. Maybe a good first step is to be like, oh, I'm having a hard time at work.
Speaker 1:And that's super vague. But if they say, okay. Oh, yeah. Cool. Hey, man.
Speaker 1:Did you check out that game last night? Okay. Well, maybe he's not the one that you need to open up to. Yeah. But if someone's like, oh, dude, why don't you tell me more about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then you're like, okay. And then you take a couple more steps. Yeah. And then you see how they respond.
Speaker 1:And then you take a couple more steps, and then you see how they so you do have to find a safe person. You do have to find kinda that safe spot. But it's worth trying. Right? Like Yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. You you kinda do have to have that I guess it's like a chemistry almost. Right? That's kinda like what you were talking about in regards to as as long as you have Christ in common, like that really can make all of the difference. Like, some of the guys that I open up to the most, I don't have I don't have, like, a ton in common with.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But they want to know me, and I want them to know me. Totally. And, so yeah. But it's a courage thing.
Speaker 1:I mean, it is terrifying, because they could hurt you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. But isn't that faith? Like, absolutely faith.
Speaker 1:I am gonna have faith that I'm gonna let Michael in on this, and I'm going to trust that he's not gonna hurt me and that it'll be good for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. So Yeah. I think that in some ways too, the if you can zoom out, the riskier thing to do is to to put your heart in a box and let it whither and die. You know?
Speaker 2:And I think the the other thing that came to my mind is, yeah, try to identify a lot of people who might listen to this, they'd know somebody who knows how to do friendship. And they there's someone I bet they can pretty easily identify, maybe an older person, or maybe someone they just feel some level of security that they could just if you could be bold enough, is you could actually be pretty objective and just say, hey. I'm struggling with friendship. Like, would you mentor me or disciple me or, like, help me with this? Sure.
Speaker 2:You know? And maybe that's a little bit that's a leap more than a step, but I bet most people can identify someone that they would feel safe to do that. And maybe and maybe I'm a I'm a fan of this. Maybe that is a text message or an email where your voice might be shaking if you try to, like, go up to them in a in a area face to face and say that. But I think that's a great practical way to kinda put yourself on the hook.
Speaker 2:Like, if you just send that text message to the guy that says, dude. I'm kinda struggling. Would you wanna meet up? Then when you show up, like, you're not gonna talk about sports the whole time. Right.
Speaker 2:Because they're like, why you didn't text me to talk about the Mavericks. You know? So I think that's a good set. It's cool, man.
Speaker 1:Alright. So if if some guy heard this and they're like, I don't know, Michael. I just don't know about this whole opening up myself and having a having a having a band of brothers and having friends, like, I'm I'm good. Why don't you try to sell them on it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. In in some ways, my, like, doctor mind turns on because I'm like, bro, like, wake up and just read the the stats or the news. Like, you can't loneliness is an epidemic. You know? Like, the surgeon general made an announcement that, like, these the teenager loneliness epidemic, and it's some of it's social media induced, but that's just, like, one presentation.
Speaker 2:Like, you you're delusional. I was like and I think if you are honest with yourself and you read and read guys who are talking about this, like, I feel like you and I both love David Brooks, and I love his stuff on friendship and how to know somebody. You know? But I don't I think you probably know you're wrong if you're thinking that actually. And maybe you have some poor substitute right now.
Speaker 2:And I would just say be honest with yourself if whatever that is is working for you or if you can point to anyone who it's worked for for a long time, whatever it is, you know. If it's your career or just your relationship with your spouse, you know. That sounds a little bit harsh, but I'm like, I actually don't think many people really think that's true.
Speaker 1:I don't think I did. And then I went to this conference a couple years ago with Ben, and this guy got up on stage, he was like, having a band of brothers, surrounding yourself with other men is the most important thing that you can do as a follower of Jesus. And I was like, no. I don't think so, dude. Like, you're talking about quiet time.
Speaker 1:You're talking about being in the church. You're talking about being in the word, like, all these things. And then he's like, because it's the one that makes everything else go. You can't have a a intimate in-depth relationship with the Lord without other men encouraging to do so. You can't have a marriage that's on fire without being able to get your needs met from other men so that you're not, like, suffocating your wife with all of your needs.
Speaker 1:Yes. You get your needs met by other men so you can come serve your wife. So you can
Speaker 2:Oh, good.
Speaker 1:Right? And it's the same thing as being a father. It's like you surround yourself with other men so you can learn how to be a good father so you can get ideas. So whenever you're going through a hard time or when your kid doesn't respond how you want them to, you're not taking it out on them. You you're you have men that you can talk to about this.
Speaker 1:Is the one that makes everything else go. So it's a big deal, dude.
Speaker 2:That's such a big deal. I think that's that's a whole different, like lens to say that I mean, just think about like, that that I think that encouragement, this nothing else really works without this piece.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's great. Alright. Well, thanks, Michael, for sharing. I encourage you.
Speaker 1:Hey. If you don't have any friends, that's okay. You can holler at us. We can talk about it, or you can find some guys and come to the Ten Thousand Fathers Summit in January. Do it.
Speaker 1:It'll be awesome. But, yeah, thanks a lot for tuning in, and, until next time. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Raising Up Fathers podcast. Be sure to grab a friend or two and sign up for next year's summit. If this podcast encouraged you today, please share it with a friend.
Speaker 1:To learn more about 10,000 fathers, visit our website at raisingupfathers.com. Thank you.