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In episode 8 of The Orange Table, co-hosts Omar Farah and Aishah Balogun sit down with Toru Obunge '24 and Nica Evans '24 to discuss their experiences at Lawnparties this October. Many people will remember that the event was unruly, but few really understand the extent of the brutality that a group of Black students say they faced at the front of that crowd. There is a lesson in this story for everyone in our community from how gender and race play into our experiences of public space to the University's crowd control policies to our values as a social community.
From The Daily Princetonian comes a roundtable talk show that delves into race on Princeton's campus, bringing you in-depth, unfiltered conversations on student experiences. Produced by Content Strategist Omar Farah ’23, alongside Aishah Balogun ’23 and Victoria Agwam ’23, members of the Black Student Union, The Orange Table seeks to candidly discuss race on Princeton's campus and at colleges throughout the nation. Co-hosted by Balogun and Farah.
TRANSCRIPT from Otter.ia
Omar Farah 0:03
Hello everyone. My name is Omar Farah, and welcome to episode 8 of The Orange Table. I want to be straight with you guys before we get into today's show. This episode contains descriptions and first hand accounts of racial violence and forms of physical violence. So if that's not something you're up to at the moment, we have lots of other content from The Daily Princetonian on Spotify on Apple Music, maybe click over to one of those for the moment.
Today, we want to get to a really important story. A story you think you probably already know. I want to take you guys back to lawn parties. Yes, Sunday, October 3, a long time at this point. The day was a funny chaotic one for many of us. You'll remember the unruly crowds during the ASAP Ferg concert. But few really grasp what happened at the front near that barricade. That day, some of our fellow classmates, a group of Black women, suffered immense physical and emotional harm in the front of that crowd. Crying, screaming and waving for help. They see no one was responsive to their pleas. If there was ever a microcosm of America's treatment, and frankly Princeton's treatment of Black women, we believe this is it. Here are Nica and Toru of the class of 2024. And of course, my incredible co host, Aishah Balogun.
Nica 1:21
Hi, I'm Nica. I'm a sophomore, and I'm majoring in sociology.
Toru 1:26
I am Tory, I'm also a sophomore, and I'm going to major in psychology.
Omar Farah 1:30
Awesome. And we're here, Aishah and I. As always. Here on I think episode eight.
Aishah Balogun 1:38
That's crazy.
Omar Farah 1:38
Episode Two of season two season two. And we're here today to talk about lawnparties, and I know, it's been a while since that event. But I think there are a lot of people on campus who experienced that day in a very different way than as we're going to talk about it here. But I think it's really important for people to understand what happened at the front of that crowd. Because I think that, like the dynamics that came into play, there are ones that we deal with every day on this campus. So it's an important moment to kind of reflect on how, like institutionally and individually, we're responding to the kind of the racism and sexism that comes into play in how we interact. So that's kind of why we thought it was important to focus on this today. But let's kind of zoom back in time and go to that Sunday. All four of us were at the concert during lawn parties. Can we kind of start at the beginning? What were both your expectations and kind of moods going into the day before anything happened?
Nica 2:50
Um, well our group of friends was really excited because even though we're sophomores we didn't come last year so we hadn't had a long party experience except for the Jason Derulo video. So we were excited about that and so we had like a game plan of like we're gonna get breakfast, and we're gonna go get a wristband, and then we're gonna show up to the concert like an hour early. So we did. We showed up really early— there was no one else there so we got to the front of the line. We were all pretty excited and happy to be there.
Toru 3:17
Yeah, I think especially because even earlier that semester like we had gone to Made (in America Music Festival) so we were still very much like in a kind of like music festival kind of feeling yeah, we're gonna get to the front of the line. Yeah, we're gonna I don't know like party the hardest and all that. So yeah, when we were there, we were just kind of like making sure we had enough space, being like you know, like making sure that you like maintain the space you have like everyone's gonna come zooming in. I guess it's good to kind of like get comfortable. Obviously like when people started coming in it starts getting a bit more squishy kind of like okay, but like we're still here, like, we still made it to the front and we're still gonna like see ASAP Ferg, you know, close up. So we were pretty excited.
Omar Farah 4:00
And if I remember correctly, like, the crowd formed, and there were like, almost immediately issues with the barricade, which was not secured. And, at what point did you guys see the security officers and just like the crowd in general realize that, the barricade wasn't supported?
Nica 4:23
For me, it was towards the beginning of J Paris's performance, it started to like, give way a little bit like to lean, and at first it was just a little bit but then it was like a lot— like it was about to like fall all the way over. So the security guards came and they like, put their backs against the stage with their feet up against the fence like holding forward to keep us from falling. And it's weird because we like noticed because we were in danger, but like the people behind us were just like chillin' they didn't notice what was going on at the front.
Toru 4:54
Yeah, like honestly, I started off at the front and then when people started moving and I ended up being back about like, four ish rows. And I hadn't realized exactly what was going on. I just had like, my friends kind of being like, guys, like, you need to move back. You know, like, not just because like, we need space, but actually because like the, like the fence was leaning forward, and it was like, catching people's feet, like catching peoples feet when it was leaning back again. So there was a lot of like, I don't know, you could see that there was a sense of distress beyond just annoyance of like people moving forward on. So I guess like, yeah, it was, it was kind of difficult to convey that, to the people around me be like, without seeming like don't lean on my friends. So it was kind of stressful.
Omar Farah 5:45
Absolutely. And I remember there was a certain point when the pushing, and like the barricade not being secured, like, culminated to, I think a representative from P-Safe coming up on stage and like, particularly pointing out like a group of very drunk men. What is kind of the makeup of people around you? And like, what kind of groups were kind of in or around your space? At the beginning?
Nica 6:20
In the very beginning, it was just like our friend group, like Black students, Black girls, and guys. And it was like, we were just only people that because we got there so early, but as other people started piling in, there were upperclassmen more white males, big and strong, rowdy not really paying attention to what they were doing to the other people.
Toru 6:40
Yeah, I personally didn't see it. But I know Sydney, who was supposed to be here today. She actually said that when she got a further look out, she had actually seen me. You know, obviously, there are people who are right behind the people in the front, who were kind of pushing forward a bit, but there was actually a very specific group of kind of like white boys, kind of being rowdy that will kind of that had the momentum of that push. And like the fact that like, you know, the P-Safe officers had actually noticed, like, yeah, that, like, once you take a look, step back, like you can see who is causing this distress or causing this harm in the crowd, and it's not just like, the it's not just like the crowd just normally, and naturally just moving around. But it's actually there's, there's a specific cause. So when I heard that I was actually really shocked. I was like, Okay, so why wasn't this addressed immediately, because clearly, it seems like there's a cause and effect. And you can just literally go in there like earlier, in the like, before the show really kind of started, there was a girl who was quite distressed, and she needed to get out. So actually, one of the officers came into the crowd to take her out. And that's why I thought everything's cool. Like, that's great. Then clearly going to, like, there are people who are willing to like, come into the crowd and take us out, if necessary. You know, like, even the officers don't think that's too like too much of a big deal. So I'm thinking like, of course, if you're willing to do that, for one person, how can you not go into a crowd to stop a bunch of boys? You know, from being rowdy. And apparently some people like, you know, there are some staff members are dead, but in a really jokey way, kind of like, Oh, come on, guys. Like that's, you're not necessarily respecting the severity of the situation, like people are actually being injured people are being cut by these fences, because of the damage that they're doing from so far back, like something needs to actually be done a bit more. And I severely I guess,
Nica 8:29
I think the reaction that we got from people when we told them like how it was up front was that if you know, you're going to like have to be in the heat, you shouldn't have gone to the front and like, don't like wait till we said, we went to Made in America, which was so much bigger, none of us came out of that injured. So it was not about being at a music festival. It's about crowd control. And like being a decent human being,
Toru 8:51
Like, obviously, I think the offenses contributed a lot to the distress of the situation. Because, you know, being pushed up against a fence isn't fun in and of itself. But knowing that the fence is actually not stable, knowing that even if it doesn't collapse it is already going to harm people just by cutting them. And knowing that the people behind you really do not care about the things you're saying. And if you fall, you just you feel like likely you're going to be trampled, like no one's gonna stop and like, make sure that you're okay, even if one person dies, it's not going to be enough to control the whole crowd. So that's gonna that just really contributed to just the high stakes that of that, like of the music festival, like of lawnparties, and things like that, obviously, don't necessarily happen at bigger music festivals. And I guess that's what really took me aback something like you know what, as much as I didn't even expect it to look like a music festival like this. Obviously, it's a Princeton party. I was actually really pleasantly surprised. I was like, okay, like, this looks like a normal thing like I think we would have outside. But I think this is still like a Princeton university sponsored event. You know, they're still responsible for the things that happened here today. So clearly, everything must be planned correctly. And, you know, they have they have game plans, like act accordingly. And in these situation, I really wasn't seeing that. So I guess that was just something that was really disappointing and worrying, both at the time and in retrospect.
Aishah Balogun 10:16
And clarifying question for you, Nica, you said, people were saying, like, if you knew you're going to be at the front of the crowd, and like it was going to be hot, like, you shouldn't have gone up there is that?
Nica 10:27
Yeah, um, no. They published an article about it, and my name was used in it. And the response people were like, well, that's what happens at music festivals, like you get in the front people are rowdy people are moshing. I think some guy posted on his story, like "so what?."
Omar Farah 10:45
I saw, I saw that.
Nica 10:46
And its just like, you know,— you can't describe like how scary that was, like our lives were in the hands of like four officers, just like putting their feet up against the fence. And at 1point neuy said, we should just let go. And like, in that moment, like, I was just like, I could die, like when the when if they let go, and this thing falls. And everyone comes trampling over us to get to the front to get to ASAP FERG or whatever, like, we're not going to be okay. And there's like, that's not a so what moment.
Aishah Balogun 11:15
And it's just, it's amazing to me how many people on this campus do not have a conscience. And the idea that, so what, and I don't know if it's like just a lack of willing to understand or just a lack of like, empathy, sympathy. But it's, it's, it's amazing how people, like, honestly do not care about other individuals on this campus. And like their well being, and just like how it could have been anyone in that situation. And it's the fact that they could say so what, and people were literally being injured. And like, like Nica, I understand, like, you fainted is that what happened?
Nica 11:57
I fainted, I have bruising all over my ribs and my stomach like I was struggling to breathe for the few days after that, it took me to the ambulance. And then after I got out the ambulance, I had like a severe panic attack, like on the side of the road. And I was just like, on the sidewalk, like screaming and crying, and my friends were trying to comfort me. And they were actually admin around who were just like, looking at me. And so just like the whole situation, but like, no one cared at all, when we were endangered, when we were out of danger, asking for help with no one cared.
Toru 12:25
Honestly, the planning as well was really. Again, shocking, like, you know, we're not allowed to take to take containers with us. But that meant that they didn't have any water stations at all. So when, you know, Nica was, like, we were just gonna, like, get her some water, to get her to calm down. One of our friends, she literally had to run all the way to—where did she go to? whether it was like, campus club or some campus, or something like that, she just had to go like, everywhere on the street, to find, like, just some water, which I'm just thinking like, this is this is a music festival, essentially, you know, like, that's what it looks like. So that's what it is, of course, you're gonna have people who get overwhelmed. That even like, even if it wasn't as bad as it was, just in general, you're gonna have people who are overwhelmed by crowds, you're gonna have people who get overheated, you know, you're gonna have people who need water. And if you're not letting people take things in for understandable reasons, then you have to just kind of like, act accordingly and have planning to make sure that you can respond to certain situations.
Nica 13:24
And even like, when she found it, when she brought it back, they like, wouldn't let her bring it in. And she was like, my friends, like on the ground, like having a panic attack. And they're like, we can't wait to bring that in. She had to pour it out. And then like, I found out later that they had like a stash of water, like behind stage. And like my other friend who had an issue, she knew, like, the admin person, and they came over to her and they were like, oh, we'll bring you some of our water. And I just think that that should be something that you should care about all students whether you know them or not.
Omar Farah 13:50
Absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely. And I want us to focus in on like, responsibility both on the part of the institution also on the part, like Aishah said, all the other individuals who could have provided a hand, but like, I do want to just take a few steps back and kind of let people into the extremity of what occurred because I think when you explain Nica like the extent of like the injuries and extent of like the physical toll, and like, mental emotional toll that it took on you. Like I think that most people don't understand how intense that experience was for so many of you, so like, what else is happening in this moment, and in this time, between kind of the barricade being compromised, and the crowds pushing until you guys ended up actually leaving? What else is happening at that point?
Nica 14:51
Um, so they were like four staff, I guess they were like, security guards and they like they were holding up the barricade but um, At one point, like a girl had, like, cut herself and she was bleeding. And, you know, she was, she was Caucasian, and they immediately called the medical staff to come over and like go through the crowd and like, get her like, patched up and everything. But then when we were asking them for help, we were crying. And we were like, screaming in their faces. And they were just like, staring us in our eyes. And at one point, like, Toru had like, fainted, like, she was in my arms, and I was holding her. And I was like, Please, can you help me get her out, please, like begging it with him. He just, like stared at me. There's nothing I can do. And then a few seconds later, another white girl came to the front and was like, Hey, I don't feel good. I need to get out and made me and like everyone move out the way and they carried her over the barricade. Meanwhile, like I'm holding tour with my hands unconscious. And it just like, was blaringly obvious that there were like, racial undertone to that situation.
Toru 15:47
And like, like just the one that I had just kind of I was just fading in and out. Because of the stress of the situation. I just needed to get out. Because I just realized, like, this isn't this isn't the crowd that I thought that I was going to be in. And I knew there was no way backwards. I was like, Okay, I have to go forward. And at first I wasn't stressed. I was just kind of like, okay, I think it's time for me to leave, I'm going to go study or something. Because I, and then when I realized that these guys weren't gonna help me, then I started to freak out because I am very claustrophobic, and I'm gonna show you how to do it like, I need, I need the control the ability to get out situations I want to get out of, and how are you a staff member, and you're not going to help me with that? So I started freaking out, and that's when I start fading in and out because I'm just staring them in the face and the staring right back at me. So it's not even until one of my other friends like one of my friends, she was carrying me out because he's like, Nah, she's getting out of it. That not even the guy who's right opposite me, but actually a guy further down one of the staff members further down, he was not to, you know, help me in terms of, I mean, I'm not gonna just fall over the other side of the fence, somebody needs to come and catch me from the other side. And then they just like, let me lie on the ground for a bit, I get up and I just asked him what the exit is, like, you know, there was no follow up, there was no ,"are you ok? You know, and it was just, honestly, I was already shocked by the situation, I didn't even really have time to think about, Wow, these guys really do not care. But you know, the amount of times I look, in retrospect, I've compared it to the girl that they literally came into the crowd for to take her out near the beginning where I that made me feel like I was safe. Because I saw that, you know. And then hearing that multiple, because you know, okay, the front of the front of the crowd, I'm sure if anyone would have just been a ridiculously scary experience happened to be that there are a bunch of Black people at the front. So you're just hearing that a bunch of Black girls especially are crying, getting, you know, stressed out by the crowd needing help not receiving it. And this is happening. Honestly, terrible imagery, but like dropping like flies, you know, multiple girls are like coming to the, like coming to the exit crying, or just trying to comfort each other. And I'm just thinking, like, Why doesn't anybody like— Well, first of all, why is this still going on? Why is the show going on? Like when I got carried over the fence? And it wasn't even ASAP Ferg, I was really upset. Like, it's not even, like, you know, it's it's I forgot the student performer. Yeah, J. Paris, right? I'm thinking if I was a student performing, and I saw a student get carried over the fence. I would like as nervous or as important as this thing was to me, I would at least make sure that you know, is everything okay? Like
Nica 18:34
He told them to go harder, like, yeah, and we were in the front crying and his face and he was like, go crazy.
Toru 18:40
I just, I don't know, I that was really shocking to me. I don't know, whether there were specific, rules or anything that like, you know, stopped him from doing that. But I was just kind of like, you're a student like me, like, we are part of the same institution. You're not like, we go to the same places we like, I have as much responsibility to you as you do to me. And I wasn't really feeling that any like, you know, you're not, you know, the moment he's on that stage, I just felt like, oh, is this like something different? Like, is this like a actual concert? Is this not a Princeton event? So just kind of question like, maybe my expectations for this event are very, very skewed.
Omar Farah 19:20
But I think the expectation that you're going to, like, as a human being be respected ,like, that always has to be upheld and there are even like legal obligations that the university and others have to provide a safe event so like, I have to tell you that like Nica and Toru like going through your experiences. Like, I I thought that I had more insight than the average person because I am close to people around you and they've kind of explained what happened but like, I'm genuinely shell shocked by the extent of this and the way in which like, like, what does it say about the overarching culture like I go back to what I used to saying like if we're in a space where, like, people having a rowdy time at an ASAP FERG concert, clouds their ability to see the humanity and the people around them. Like, where are we at?
Nica 20:13
And even like just Princeton and the people that they hire to be the staff, just the institution, I feel like they're constantly telling us like, oh, like we care about you, oh, like we were supporting you. And then like you feeling like you were safe, because you saw them like, go and like, try and help that girl before you. And then when you're like asking for help, and like you're crying and you're like, fainting and you're struggling, they just look you dead in your face and say, like, simply we don't care. And it's like, how can you at this institution tell me, consistently like, "oh, we care about you. Oh, like we're looking out for you even as like Black students and Black women." And then in practice never see it. Never see it. Yeah.
I know, on the information email they send out beforehand, they're like, if you see anything dangerous, you feel unsafe, like, call it out. And like, well, we'll help and we were in their faces, screaming, crying everything to get their attention. And we were calling out and like there's no response. And I got first I thought there was no admin present. But then when I got over and I got out, they're all just like standing outside of this, like not paying attention to all the girls are like coming past them crying.
Omar Farah 21:21
That's where I'm at. I'm speechless. Yeah, but then there's like the subsequent gaslighting, then I think, like the comments were talking about earlier, Nica— like these questions like, that's what you're getting yourself into by going to the front of the crowd. But as you so clearly laid out, like, there was a different safety net available to people with white skin. And I just think I think that stark difference in treatment is something to hold on to when people within the Princeton community will try to claim that like, there aren't issues of racism, there aren't issues of like blatant differentials in treatment from this administration, because I think like even even some of the conversations that Aishah and I have tried to have on this show have been met with, like this criticism of, I guess, like, exaggerating, or like, focusing too heavily on race, like even like the political conversations in our country now about, like critical race theory, like everyone is attempting to, like there's no better term than gaslight, like the Black community into thinking that the emphasis that we put on race in our conversations is not warranted. But I just think it's experiences like this that ground us in the fact that like, we're still, we're still at that place, even here.
Nica 22:50
Yeah, I think a lot of people have tried to say it wasn't about race. But when you look at when it started, there were a group of several Black people in the front. And then towards the middle they were surrounded by people of Caucasian skin tone. And then towards the end, most of us were gone, because we had to be carried out the audience. And then they filled our spaces. And you see the white people that do need help being taken out easily. And the Black people are having to, like, help each other out. And at one point, like our friends, our male friend has to be like, "hey, like, leave them alone, don't touch them," for the people behind us. And they were getting threatened, like, "we'll beat you the fuck up, if you like, don't let us pass. And like they're like, they have to try to protect us, rather than people who are there to protect us. And I know one, a couple of our friends like they were actually like sexually assaulted by those who were supposed to be protecting us. So they're not only not there to protect us, they're also causing us harm.
Toru 23:40
It's just very intense. And I know thought experiments like this aren't always a great argument. But honestly thinking if that group of boys who were really rowdy pushing, were a group of Black boys, just thinking about that already changes the to and if, you know if we just switch it off, like absolutely white girls crying at the front, in distress in pain in dangerous and a bunch of Black boys doing whatever they want having fun being drunk and pushing a crowd that's causing that to happen. It would be ver very different.
Omar Farah 24:14
Yeah, because quite clearly, like the outcome of that thought experiment is that if there were white woman crying in the front and pleading for help, the way that you guys were, that concert would not have continued. And if there were Black boys in the middle of that crowd, being rowdy, they would have been ripped out of that crowd immediately. And they also would have been, I think, by the university, punished to a much greater extent than the people who the university did take disciplinary action against.
Nica 24:43
A group of us actually sat with an ODUS admin, and we sat there for a couple hours telling him about our experiences. And he um, he mostly said it was like a faulty barricade that they'll go check into it and that he would like keep us posted, and that he was deeply sorry about it. I haven't heard back from him. And so I mean, it's like, like more gaslighting, like, oh, like, what we'll fix it, it's not gonna happen and we care about you. And they just want us to, like, forget about it and stop talking about it. And I know mine and Toru's friend Sydney was supposed to be here today. But she was just like, it's, it's too traumatic—which is true. And I think that, you know, we go through traumas, and we're just like, struggling to talk about it, and that's what they're expecting from us, they want to see us like, oh, they'll get over it. Because like, they don't, they're not gonna want to keep talking about it. But I don't want this to happen to anybody else. Like it could have been a lot worse. Just why? Like, I think we need to keep talking about it.
Omar Farah 25:40
Absolutely, absolutely.
Aishah Balogun 25:41
And the fact that they allowed ASAP FERG to go on, even after all of that is insane. And I think even like we were talking earlier about, like, when they brought when they like, Lauren came out, like the issues officer for the class of 24. And she was trying to get the crowd controlled. And I don't. I don't understand why they like, let a student go out there and try and like, do crowd control.
Toru 26:10
Yeah, I think it was an awful decision to send a student, one to face so many other students who clearly don't care about other students. Right? You know, that's already an issue. And to shout out a crowd, like, you know, like, on it, like just sending her out there as if I don't even know, I just thought it was a really, really, really bad choice, especially when there were people like staff of authority who were there.
Nica 26:38
Tried to justify it. When we asked him about it. He was like, Oh, we want to give you guys as much autonomy and they are students you elected them. And it's just like, Yeah, but right now, like people are hurting and you're a bigger adult who has more power.
Toru 26:50
Yeah.
Omar Farah 26:51
No, it's crazy, because like, the one tool they had to protect students was to actually like, cut the concert or in some way, like, stop the concert, actually move in and like, get you guys the help that you needed. But instead, like the fact that their intuitive response was to put another student in harm's way in a different way, I think speaks volumes because I mean, she was not equipped with the tools to get that crowd under control. If P-Safe officers weren't able to do it, all of the ODUS staff who were quite literally paid to put on events like this weren't able to do it. Like, I don't know, it just I think it speaks to, like their capacity to continue to put students in harm's way. Yeah, that really didn't sit right with me, I think. I think she did an incredible job in terms of being put in a situation like that. I don't think any of us would have handled that.
Toru 27:47
I wouldn't have gone out there honestly, I don't know like find someone else. Like no. Absolutely, honestly. And it just got embarrassing. I had a thought for even asking for students to move back. And I just thought, is this it? Is this what it is like now, our headliner who is literally someone who does concerts all the time, has to ask a bunch, right, a whole crowd of Princeton students to move back and it's not working. And he's saying that "oh, you know, if you guys don't let me if you don't move back, they're not gonna let me continue." Like that is just like, there's clearly a problem here with conduct.
Omar Farah 28:00
Yeah, precisely. And I think that it is one that has extended outside of lawnparties just in terms of even lines for eating clubs and so forth. Like, there's just a certain level of like people not understanding the gravity of crowds. Like when you're in a massive group like that, and people are out of control and people are pushing. Like Nica said, like the moment someone falls to the ground, and people are advancing forward, like that is a risk to someone's life. And the university, I think going forward has an obligation to make sure that students aren't in that situation so often, but like, I want to rest on that point for a second of what the university needs to do, because I think, like, this is a good forum to call on the university in like a specific way to address this. And I think, like, what I would not want to see is them. And like, for our listening audience, like I'm using air quotes, I don't want them to go in, like, take this into consideration, as they plan for the next long party because I don't like I don't try it, quite frankly, we don't have a reason to trust them enough to actually do that. So I think that they need to preemptively release a plan that like states how they're going to be more ready and capable of protecting students next time around.
Toru 29:44
And I was definitely saying when we went and had that conversation after the dean, you know, we're saying that Princeton is great for the way that they talk about you know, you can drink on campus, don't be afraid to drink On campus, because don't be afraid to tell someone you were drinking, because if you overdo it, like, you know, you need to get, you know, medical help and support. And I thought, wow, that's a really great thing. Like, I wasn't expecting that when I came there. But they have nothing on. Or at least when we're like when we're like when we have our RCA Zee groups there's nothing on like conduct and what kind of repercussions there are. Like yes, you can be drunk on campus, but that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want. And that goes beyond just you know, bad behavior, like your actual conduct when intoxicated, there are certain things that you should not be doing. And that you should know that there will be consequences if you do it and continue to do it. Because it is always kind of like, it may not be the same people, but it's the same kind of group like it's, you know, it's always like the, from what I've seen, it's always like the tall white boys, you know, the ones who kind of control the crowd, the ones who kind of take up this space in the room, and it's, you know, fine, you can, like people can have a good time. But you know, like, it's not, it's not that hard to be drunk, and to not push someone, it's really not difficult.
Omar 31:11
And I hate that defense, I hate when people come back to this kind of conduct and say that people are just having fun, like you need to lighten up. I have seen people have a lot of fun, and that has never involved harming other people. Like if that is your version of tfun there might be some reevaluation you need to do.
Toru 31:30
Like if you're really so far gone that you don't know when you are harming people, then you need to drink less. Like it is really that simple. The level at which you are not aware of the people around you cannot be the threshold for your fun, like there has to be something else. And Princeton doesn't have anything in place—or anything concrete in place—to communicate this idea that we are not tolerant of behaviours like this under any circumstance.
Aishah 31:59
Even to the point of people kind of gaslighting you guys, in the "so what" sense. Again, people kind of producing the problem. Like people who were meant to be there were not helping you. You guys said you had been to Made in America. I've been to a couple music festivals as well, and there are always water people at the barricade. There's always staff ready to lift you up and bring you over, and I've seen that happen many times. The fact that people there, kind of representing Princeton as an institution, staff, everyone there to help you— in case the students weren't there to help you— also were looking out for you and did not care for your well being is just nuts. It is extremely disappointing, but can we even say it is surprising given our experiences here as Black people, Black women.
Omar Farah 32:47
Yeah, but at what point do we as a community move to like, it's disappointing to it's unacceptable, because I think like, I really want to see, I think I want to also be a part of like, moving to a space where like, we are organizing, and like, articulating our feelings with demands. Because I think that the Black community, like, we are very conversational. And we talk with ourselves often about all of these things, and like, the dynamics and the problems, but I think that we need to become slightly better at, like, expressing those demands, in formal ways to the university, I know that they're not the most receptive all the time, but like, there is a there's a long history of, like activism, from Black students, like, all the way back to, I mean, way before the BJL. But like, in most recent years, like, actually even occupying the Office of the President of University, like we've gone to those lengths before, when we feel like we aren't, when we're being dehumanized by the institution, I feel like, like, I'm interested to see us, as a community move in, like, take those risks more often to make sure, I mean, we shouldn't have to, of course, like, we are in that place.
Nica 34:20
I guess for me, I just want to say that, like, this problem is not going away. So like I us talking about, it is not going to go away, like people asked, like, Are you afraid, like I talked about it in the article, I'm coming on this podcast, and I'm going to talk about it, am I afraid of the backlash, and maybe a little bit, but I was more afraid for my life that day. So I'm just gonna keep talking about it.
Toru 34:34
I guess, like, it's definitely in my eyes, to kind of it's create, it's made me have a bit more expectations, or is actually what I want to see, when I hear that you're doing something or when you have something that you're specifically responsible for, I want to see that I'm actually valued as a student. You know, like, I've flown all the way over here, my parents are not accessible to me at all, like, I need to know that actually, I'm being cared about, and I'm not going to compromise on that. And I'm not going to act like it's okay. That, you know, there are times where someone who looks like me, you know, may not be taken care of, may not be supported in the way that one should.
Nica 35:18
Yeah, definitely like a feeling of just not being protected and safe. Like even after that. Like, if I've been in trouble. I don't call P-Safe. I call my Black friends who were the ones who lifted me over the barricade. And they were the ones who sat with me while I had a panic attack outside of the concert, because you see who cares about you and it's not the university.
Omar Farah 35:37
Yeah, I talked about the role that we have as a community to advocate for ourselves. But I think there's also a lot of work and reflection to be done by all of those students, many of whom we know who were around you guys, and were capable of helping or even if they weren't proximate to you, they could have taken a step back, like everyone had a part to play in what happened that day. And I think that this is a really important moment for people to realize that their experience of that event and so many events on Princeton's campus is skewed by their identity. And maybe think a little bit more about the way you're engaging with those around you. And we can hopefully get to a better place. But there's also going to have to be an institutional response to this. I mean, that I can say very quickly is like it's not a question of if the university wants to respond to this and wants to do better next time. It's, it's a necessity, and, and we're going to demand as such. But yeah, I really, really appreciate both of you coming here and thank you so much. It was incredible.
This episode was written and recorded by Omar Farah and Aisha Balogun Sound engineered by Moses Abramson and Christian Owusu, and produced under 145th Managing Board at the Daily Princetonian. Please be kind and have a nice day!