Well, friend, we're back. It's Sunday afternoon out here on the frozen river.
It's cold out there, isn't it? It is. It's very cold out there.
I think it was 10 degrees this morning when we went out to fill up the deer feeders.
About three inches of snow. Yeah. And the bird feeders.
Bird feeders. The North Platte River is frozen solid outside.
So it's a winter wonderland out there, Dad.
That's right. And it just happened almost overnight. It's incredibly beautiful.
The trees are silver. It looks like a scene from a Norman Rockwell painting. Yes. Yeah, it does.
It's really something. There were about, I don't know, conservatively,
probably about a thousand geese out in the river this morning.
They were huddled up together. Yeah, they were. They were in a little ball.
Yeah, Lisa was worried about them. And I said, I think God built them for this
place. They came here from someplace colder. That's true.
And of course, they're headed for somewhere else that's warmer. That's right.
Well, friend, we are in the first week of 2025. Happy New Year,
Tocqueville. Happy New Year to you.
I'm just in awe that here it is, 2025. I know, it's crazy. Just turn around, I got old.
We didn't come here to talk about that. Well, if it's Sunday afternoon and we're
sitting by the river, that can only mean one thing. It's Tuesdays with Tata.
Yes. What are we going to talk about today, Tata? Well, what occurred to me
is, as we looked at, and we talked about this some last time,
But people make a lot of what we call New Year's resolutions at this time of year.
But it occurred to me that there's two examples that we have that we need to consider.
And as we talk about deciding what we're going to do about ourselves and the
changes that we want to make, it may be that we have problems with someone else. Yeah.
Maybe we need to forgive them or they need to forgive us.
So as you consider that, think about what happened to our Lord.
He came and he was rejected by his own people.
He was rejected by the religious leaders of the day. Yep. And he was killed by the Romans.
And yes, I know there's a but. But a lot of people think about it. Yes, but.
Jesus was a man and he was God. Yes, that's true.
But he was a man just as we are. That's right. So he felt hunger.
He felt pain. He was thirsty. He felt fear. He felt fear. He was lonely.
He had no place, and we know that he had no place to live. That's right.
He said the foxes have holes and the birds have nests.
The Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head. That's right.
So think about that just a minute. And where I am right here is in Luke,
let's see, I'll give you the scripture, Luke 23, 34. Or, um,
but they took Jesus and two other men, both criminals, were also led out with him to be executed.
When they came to the place called the skull, they crucified him there,
along with the criminals, one on his right and the other on his left.
Jesus said, Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they're doing.
Could we do that? Could you do that? Could I do that? Probably not.
But think about where he was what jesus was he came to do that that's right
but and and i don't know but i think god probably did they knew god knew how
they were going to treat him,
they knew they were going to reject him god even said that said that about the
israelites called them stiff-necked. That's right.
They're stubborn when they refused to obey.
And these same people here were going to kill Jesus Christ.
And they could not deny who he was, but they did.
Now, and there's all kinds of rationale for why they did that.
But that's not the purpose here. The purpose is we need to examine ourselves
in the light of what we know about what our Lord did.
And the admonition that we have from the Apostle Paul, the admonition that we
have in all of Scripture and New Testament is that we're to think more highly
of the other than we do ourselves. That's right.
So is this indicative of Jesus thinking more highly of them than they thought of him? I think so.
Well, he was always able to, and we talk about this on the neuroscience side,
but he was able to rise above his emotion.
Yes. Because we know that he felt everything just as we do.
Yes. That's what Hebrews says, that he was tempted in every way like the Lord.
Yes. And when you're being falsely accused and punished and persecuted and hurt,
I mean, your flesh would want to lash out. That's right.
And he would have been vindicated and justified. Absolutely.
Well, he himself said he could have called 12 legions of angels. That's right.
So the neuroscience angle then would be that he was able to separate feelings
from facts, although it was a fact that he was right in that situation.
He also knew as God that those people were hopelessly broken and deceived by
the enemy and that they were suffering under sin,
and he longed for them to be forgiven and saved and loved them.
And so he was able to rise above his emotion and think with his frontal lobes
and get into an executive state where he cared more about them than he did about
the moment. That's right.
Think about how hard that was for him. Had to have been really difficult.
He was, they were killing him.
They crucified him. They had
already driven the nails, the nails in his hands and nails into his feet.
And he said that. So he was able to operate in that way, even under great duress. It's amazing.
That's very hard. And that's where I ask myself, could I do that?
Have I been called to do that?
Has someone hurt me so badly or have I hurt someone so badly that I would come to that kind of place?
And that's one of the things that I try to do is try to examine myself.
And I ask myself, did I do that?
Did I hurt someone's feelings? And immediately I try to address it then,
not let it foster or fester, because it will.
That's right, it sure will. And that's the other thing. Like,
Jesus always made the decision that was going to produce the right result.
That's right. And so in that context, if you look at all the different ways
in which a result would have been right, it would have been right for him to
ask God for forgiveness because that's what he was doing on behalf of all of us. That's right.
It would have been right for him to decide not to react out of emotion because
that was best for his brain and his body and his life, his example,
and all the things that he tried to exemplify. as a person.
And so he was doing everything in the right way, even when it seems contradictory to our intellect.
Nobody would have blamed him if he had lashed out. That's right.
No one. Ask God to condemn them.
But the question is, will we be blamed if we need to forgive someone?
Well, we're commanded, if you don't forgive, you'll be judged by the same standard.
That's exactly right. That's right.
The same measure will be used on you. That's right.
Somebody said not forgiving another
person is like drinking poison and expecting them to die. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, that's the other part of it. What would it do to you as you think about that other person?
And that's what that cliche is addressing.
It will cause your own demise. Well, try it.
Because you can't process that information.
You can't decide how you're going to respond And then on the other side of it,
why do we not do that right away?
That's right. Because sometimes we may be embarrassed.
Maybe the other person will not forgive us.
But then where is the onus then? That's right. We've done our part.
And then the other example is almost the same thing, and it's recorded in Acts 7.
Stephen. Stephen.
Stephen is an interesting person in himself because he was chosen to be one
of the seven to administer, to help with the people,
well, specifically the Grecian widows who were destitute and were not being taken care of.
That's right. And I don't know, was he Greek? I don't know. But I know this.
He was a very knowledgeable person. He was a very honest person.
And he was a very righteous person because the speech that he made before they killed him was amazing.
He counted their history, the history of the Jewish people.
He recounted for them how Moses, then he made the application about Jesus being
sent. and what they did to him, and he pointed to them, and that's where they got mad. Yeah.
And they gnashed their teeth at him.
What does that sound like?
I can't even get a comprehension of that myself. People being so angry with
me that they would gnash their teeth at me.
I don't even know what gnashing their teeth looks like.
Maybe they tried to bite him. I don't know. I don't know. That sounds awful.
But they were absolutely very angry with him.
And I understand why they got mad at him.
Because in verse 51, you stiff-necked people, your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised.
You are just like your ancestors. You always resist the Holy Spirit.
Always resist the Holy Spirit. You always resist the Holy Spirit.
So can you say, well, they were already mad at him anyway because they took
him outside of town and they were going to stone him to death anyway.
That's what they planned to do.
And these people, I can't even imagine what possessed these people. It was a blind mob.
And you think about that in terms, we've read stories about lynch mobs.
They just seem to move on their own initiative. That thinking is not even,
you can't accuse them of that because they're not thinking.
And is it their emotions? I don't know. Is it their hatreds?
That I don't know either.
But something is driving them that is beyond reasonable intelligence.
That's the same thing with this mob that was driving them that decided that
they were going to kill Stephen.
And now there's always other parts of that too. There was a young man there named Saul.
And the people that threw the stones laid their garments at his feet.
And the last verse says that Saul approved of his killing. That's right.
But listen to what he says. While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed,
Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Then he fell on his knees and he was standing up, apparently.
He fell on his knees and cried out, Lord, do not hold this sin against them.
And when he said this, he fell asleep.
His last act as a person on earth was to forgive other people.
Yes. Seek their forgiveness.
That's amazing. And so those are the two examples that we have that I can think of.
I'm sure there's other examples that are more applicable to where you are, friend, right now.
As you examine your own heart and you examine your own self and you make this
determination, do you have something against someone? Now, in both cases,
Jesus was there, and they were taking his life.
And in the case of Stephen, he was there, they were taking his life.
But their last words were, please forgive them.
Please forgive them for killing me? That's what they were saying. Yeah, exactly.
I think it's a good point. We're talking about setting ourselves up for a year
and getting rid of anything that's holding us back or buying into new behaviors
and new patterns and new habits.
But one of the things, as you mentioned, Dad, is that sometimes we want things
to change, but we don't want to change.
That's correct. And if you keep repeating the same problems and issues,
then it is time to examine your heart.
And in fact, we were at our church service this morning.
The pastor mentioned that idea that God is a God who forgives and forgets.
That's right. Numerous scriptures.
Isaiah, the first part of Isaiah, where he says, Come now, let us settle the
matter. Though your sins were as scarlet, I have washed them white as snow.
David says, He's removed your sin as far as the east is from the west.
I will forgive your sins. I will remember them no more.
So God says, I will forget your sins. I will forgive you and I will not hold
this against you anymore.
And then here we have Stephen and Jesus trying to say, I'm about to take myself into eternity.
I don't want to take anger, resentment, grudge with me.
And so maybe as we're approaching this new year, maybe that's a place to examine.
Like, are there some places where we keep trying to implement things,
but we're holding on to some other things that are keeping us from moving forward?
One of those easy targets to look for would be unforgiveness.
Well, if we have something against someone or even against our brother.
Then when you have unforgiven sin in your own life, then you can't expect to
be reconciled to him. That's right.
That's right. So we must apply the same standards to those who have harmed us
as we would wish for them to apply to us.
And sometimes we have a different way of looking at the way things have happened
to us than we do to the way things that we have done. That's right.
We have all these right brain excuses and nuances, explanations for why we behave. That's right.
And the other person is just, it's a fact. They did this thing.
They are that thing. They'll never be anything other than that thing.
That's right. And so I think to get to that place where Jesus was in a very
emotional, physically painful, dangerous situation he already knew the outcome of.
And yet he knew it was important to connect all of that emotion and pain and
angst to the higher level of what God would expect of him,
which was to look at your enemies as his children who are fallen. That's right.
Look at the things that are happening to you in the context of God's will for your life.
And he didn't want to drag that with them into a church. No.
Into what he was about to go have to do. That's right. And we know that Jesus had no sin.
That's right. He was tempted just like we were. We are.
But he was without sin. That's right. So he did not commit any grievous acts against anyone.
And if you look at every encounter that he had with people, he was always trying to help them.
You look at what has amazed me is looking at the women in the accountants that
Jesus had with, he elevated their statue. He always did.
He made them, he took them to a plane that they had not experienced.
They were valued by him. That's right.
And in the case of Stephen, those people had to be valued by him as well.
Or he wouldn't have asked God not to hold this charge of their sin against them.
That's right. He cared about them.
He did. And so that's the case for us to do. And as I've said always before, easy to do.
But these are examples that we have. That's right.
So as we look at ourselves, look at him, look at Stephen, look at Jesus.
All you need, really, is to look at Jesus. That's right.
But it was amazing to me that in both of these cases, they both basically said the same thing.
Forgive them for what they're doing and are taking their life.
And they were both, in both cases, Jesus and Stephen asked the Father to forgive them. Sure.
That's powerful. What do you think?
What do you think is the things that create barriers for us to forgive other people?
Well, I think one of the things that occurs to me is that if it's like,
for example, it's a relative or it's an uncle, and you say to yourself,
I want to ask him to forgive me because I've offended him, but really, he's offended me.
That's right. But I must have done something to cause him to offend me.
Think about that. Well, isn't that putting a different address on it, for example?
But at the same time, the other part of us may say, he's not going to forgive me anyway.
Well, sometimes we have this, I haven't done anything that needs to be forgiven.
That's right. That's right. Because sometimes that's true.
I mean, if someone's abused you or done something, don't hear us saying something,
don't hear us blaming the victim here.
But clearly, if there's something that has happened in the past and you are
now in a safe place and that person can't hurt you anymore or that situation
is not going to happen again,
then you harboring unforgiveness is not going to go back in time and make that
thing not have happened.
That's right. And it's not going to go back in time and hurt that person and hurt you.
It's only going to continue to perpetuate your trauma. Like being unwilling
to forgive something or mentally lay it down is only going to hurt you in the
present tense and in the future. That's right. But it won't do anything about the past.
So I think sometimes we think that holding on to that resentment is somehow
punishing that other person for what they did to us. Yeah.
But it's really just hurting us. That's right. I give you a personal example.
A guy told me a long time ago, I'm going to get you for what you did.
But he died shortly thereafter.
He died. And I looked at him when he said that to me, and I could not believe
that he was saying that to me. But at the same time, I didn't hate him.
I chose not to.
And that's just one example. And I'm not saying that I'm perfect,
that I understand completely. I don't.
And am I without sin? No. Sin is like an old friend.
And it's like that to all of us. We are all plagued by it.
That's right. None of us are without sin, but at the same time,
we have to, irregardless of how we feel, that's why these two examples are so striking.
They're facing the loss of their lives, and yet they choose to ask God to forgive
those people for doing what they're doing. And in the case of Jesus,
he said, for what they're not doing.
And Stephen said, don't hold this charge for the sin against them.
Is it possible? So Jesus looked at the crowd that was literally nailing him
to the cross, that was literally accusing him of crimes he did not commit,
literally trumping up charges against him to falsely accuse and convict him
and show trial that was against the law by the way they prosecuted him.
All those things, Jesus had the moral high ground.
Yes. And yet he still chose to say, they are so deluded in their sin that I
want God to forgive them. They don't even know what they're doing.
So can we have that type of compassion on other people to say,
I know that a person who wasn't hopelessly deluded by sin could not have done
the things that they did to me.
So I need to get God's mercy and God's grace as he has given to me to be applied to them.
And that'll help heal me. That's the key right there. And that's how,
and that's the key to the whole equation as well, how we feel about ourselves.
If we feel like the little kid that when you asked the little kid,
did you do that? Why did you hit your sister? I didn't.
I didn't do that. That's our first reaction.
We watched a lot of football and you see some guy commit an error like a pass
interference and a referee is over the flag and he holds his hands up and says,
I didn't do that. I didn't do that.
I wouldn't do that. That's right. Right. But they did. They did.
So, and it's a very hard thing to do, but it must be done.
Well, I think if our goal, our overarching goal here on this show,
and the other podcast too, everything we do is to help you flourish in your life.
We always say the little catchphrase, we want you to become healthier and feel better and be happy.
And so Jesus and Stephen here are giving us a, for a way that you need a behavior
that you need to emulate if you want to flourish.
That's right. Even when your life is on the line, if you don't forgive, if you don't.
Lay down resentment if you don't change your mind about what's happened.
And not to say to excuse bad behavior.
Jesus didn't say, oh, it's not so bad what they're doing. That's right.
He didn't say, oh, I understand why they're doing that. He didn't say that.
No. He just said, God, forgive them. They don't know what they're doing. That's right.
He didn't say, he didn't excuse it. He didn't minimize it. And we're not calling
you to do that either, friend.
We're not saying that the trauma or whatever the problem is,
the relationship issue needs to be minimized.
We're saying if If you want to flourish in your life, if you want to live in
the best way that you can to move forward in your life and get rid of chains
and shackles and weights that are holding you back,
you need to find the places if you are harboring resentment or unforgiveness
towards another person.
So that's an exercise you can do today, a little self-brain surgery.
Write down something that is hurting you from the past, that you've been unwilling
to even approach the idea of forgiving and do some work there. Pray there.
Spend some time there. Could you look at Jesus and Stephen and say,
forgive them, they don't know what they're doing.
And please, whatever you do, don't make the statement, I will not forgive them.
Don't do that. Life is too short for one thing, but we are commanded to forgive.
That's right. And we're commanded to think more highly of the other than we do ourselves.
That's right. And we're commanded not to judge people.
Because if we do, the same judgment's going to be used against us. That's right.
By the same standard, the same measure, Jesus said, you're going to be judged and measured.
And I think that the Paul test in Romans 12 is a pretty good test where he says,
if possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with all people. That's right.
As far as it depends on you, which means there's always a part that depends on the other person.
Yes. And so we're not saying you have to go back and mend every relationship
you've ever had in your whole life.
No. We're talking about an internal state between you and God in your own heart.
That's right. Like if you want to move forward in your life from something that's
holding you back, resentment, unforgiveness will hold you back.
Yes. And that you don't have to go and have another relationship with that person,
but forgiving them is something you can do in your heart and your spirit between
you and your creator. That's right. Set you free.
That's right. It doesn't mean that you have to walk with them everywhere they go.
It doesn't mean that at all. In fact, you may not ever even communicate with
that person. That's right.
You can lay down the burden of carrying that thing you've been harboring. That's right.
Because what Hebrews 12 says is cast off anything that hinders.
That's right. Anything.
That's right. And the sin that's so easily entangled. That's right.
Here we have, it's like you're carrying around a 10,000 pound weight and the
other person doesn't even know you're carrying.
That's right. And they don't care that you're caring. That's right.
But you can put it down and move on with your own life. That's correct.
That's right. And you have to be prepared for that. You have to be prepared
for the person that doesn't care and doesn't want to see you or hear from you
and may take advantage of you when you ask them for forgiveness. That's right.
I mean, there's some situations where you don't even have to ask them.
I mean, think about an abusive father who's already passed away.
No, you can't. You can't go back and talk to them and see their eyes and hear them say, I'm sorry.
That's right. They might not have ever been willing to say they were sorry.
They may not even know what they were doing. That's right. They might have been
hopelessly drunk or mentally ill or you had no idea.
But the point is that decision to forgive is inside of you.
That's it. That's it. That's where it rests.
So I think you're right, Tata. We want to have a year to flourish,
a year to become healthier and feel better and be happier.
I think that's a beautiful thing to look at those two stories from the New Testament
and say, what, at the very end, the last thing Jesus needed to clear between
him and God was to make sure that he was forgiving people who were harming him. That's right.
And same thing with Stephen. Talk about a mic drop. I mean, that's the last thing.
It's not, oh, God, make sure everybody knows how unfairly that was true. Yeah.
Make sure everybody knows how terrible these people were. Yeah.
Because that stuff will take care of itself.
I mean, nobody there that watched that happen thought the Romans were the good guys. Yeah.
Nobody did. Nobody did. Even the Jews that were behind all of it,
instigating it, they didn't think, they knew that Jesus was right.
Yeah. They were just so prideful that they couldn't. Well, the centurion that
was standing there said, surely this man was the son of God. That's right.
So it's not about setting the record straight or getting your pound of flesh
or any of those things. It's not about that.
It's about what can you do to set your heart right and set things down that
have been holding you back.
They're hindering your life. They're causing generational issues in the future
for you. It'll affect your children, their children.
And what story do you want to tell with your life? And what last words would
you want to say if you were the one being stoned to death like Stephen?
I think it's a very poignant and powerful message you brought us here today, Tonto.
What's the final word on it? Well, one of the things that—be sure that you can
stand in God's presence.
And how do you do that? You have to call on your own self.
And the one thing that I know is you have to stay in the Word. That's right.
You have to understand, and you want to know what God is trying to say to you. I'm trying.
And the one thing that you want to know is, okay, God, what do you want me to know now? That's right.
And he will reveal that to you. But you have to ask him.
He's not going to run over you. I'm sorry. It's a gentleman.
And so I think, friend, just as an exercise here for some spiritual brain surgery,
take a piece of paper and ask yourself, are there some places where I am being
held back from my own flourishing by something or someone that I haven't been willing to forgive?
And maybe write it down. Maybe then spend some time in prayer with God saying,
what steps do I need to take here? Is it a relationship that needs to be restored?
Yes. By falling out with my sister? I've not spoken to my parents.
Is there something like a relationship that actually needs to be repaired? Yeah.
Or is it something you just need to forgive and heal in your own heart? That's right.
And we'd love to hear from you. If you want to reach out to us,
contact at drleewarren.com or speakpipe.com slash drleewarren.
If you want to leave a voicemail, we wouldn't ask for details of your story.
We'd love to hear if there's something that you have decided to lay down,
and we'd love to be praying for you about that. And so Tata and I and Lisa would
love to be part of that story for you to heal and get free because we want you to get free this year.
2025 could potentially be the best year of your life. Even if it holds hard
things, it will hold hard things.
If you can grow, if you can change, if you can discover your purpose,
if you can lay down some things that have been holding you back,
if you can overcome some habit or addiction that's limiting you in your life
and you can forgive somebody that's been harming you by not forgiving them,
And we would love to know about that story That's right And so I guess Tata
The moment of truth has arrived If it's helpful for us On a spiritual level
On a neurochemical level On a physical Physical and physiological level To forgive
others When should we start? We start today We start today.