Why Email Still Drives the Highest ROI in Ecommerce with Jordan Dean Gordon

Inside Marketing with MarketSurge | Featuring Jordan Dean Gordon

Email has been declared “dead” for years — yet it continues to outperform almost every other marketing channel when done right.

In this episode of Inside Marketing with MarketSurge, Reed Hansen sits down with Jordan Dean Gordon, a 25-year veteran of ecommerce, email CRM, and customer retention. Jordan has held leadership roles across startups, successful exits, Amazon, and Realtor.com, and today leads teams at PilotHouse while hosting the World’s Best Email and Retention Podcast.

This conversation dives deep into why email remains one of the most powerful drivers of profitability, how it improves paid advertising ROI, and what most brands get wrong about funnels, metrics, and customer experience.

If you care about retention, scalability, and building an audience you actually own, this episode is for you.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why email and SMS are more relevant today than ever before
• How email directly improves paid media ROI and lowers acquisition costs
• Why most brands chase the wrong metrics in email and CRO
• The role of abandonment, lifecycle flows, and long-term follow-up
• The 120-second psychological journey every website visitor goes through
• Which metrics matter at each stage of the funnel and which are overrated
• Why investing in the bottom of the funnel creates compounding growth

Key Takeaways:

• Email touches every stage of the customer lifecycle at a lower cost than ads
• Retention channels unlock revenue without increasing ad spend
• Conversion rate optimization can double revenue without more traffic
• Funnels fail when clarity, speed, and intent are ignored
• Brands that invest in email and CX scale faster and more profitably

Guest Links:
Jordan Dean Gordon on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordangordon/

PilotHouse
https://www.pilothouse.co

At MarketSurge, we help you turn tools into systems — and systems into growth.
If you want automation that feels personal and performs like a team of 10, you’re in the right place.

Want to talk strategy or see it in action?
Book your 15-minute Value or Free Coffee Call:
https://link.marketsurge.io/widget/bookings/15minutevalueorfreecoffee

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Because your next breakthrough shouldn’t be a guess.

Creators and Guests

Host

Reed Hansen

Reed Hansen is a seasoned digital marketing executive with a proven track record of driving business growth through innovative strategies. As the Chief Growth Officer at MarketSurge, he focuses on leveraging AI-powered marketing tools to help businesses scale efficiently. Reed's expertise spans from leading startups to Fortune 500 companies, making him a recognized authority in the digital marketing space. His unique ability to combine data-driven insights with creative solutions has been instrumental in achieving remarkable sales growth for his clients. ​

What is Inside Marketing with MarketSurge?

Welcome to Inside Marketing with MarketSurge — your front-row seat to the boldest business insights, marketing breakthroughs, and entrepreneurial real talk.

Hosted by Reed Hansen, Chief Growth Officer at MarketSurge and a digital marketing veteran who's helped scale everything from scrappy startups to Fortune 500 giants, this podcast dives deep into what’s really moving the needle in today’s marketing world. Find us at Marketsurge.io

Each week, we’ll break down the latest marketing and business news (minus the fluff), explore tech trends you actually need to know, and feature unfiltered conversations with the most interesting minds in entrepreneurship and marketing.

Whether you're a founder, a marketer, or just a curious hustler looking to level up, this is where growth happens—loudly, smartly, and with just the right amount of sass.

Subscribe, tune in, and let’s scale something legendary. 🚀

Speaker: Welcome to Inside
Marketing With Market Surge.

Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest

strategies in the marketing game.

Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hello
and welcome back to Inside

Marketing with Market Surge.

Today's guest is someone who's been
shaping how some of the biggest brands

in the world think about email retention
and customer experience long before most

marketers even knew what lifecycle meant.

Joining us today is Jordan Dean Gordon,
a 25 year veteran of e-commerce and

digital marketing with deep expertise
in email CRM and customer retention.

Jordan's career spans startups
to successful exits and email

product leadership role at Amazon.

Very impressive.

After the acquisition of a books.

And a senior CX and digital
strategy [e-mail]

today, Jordan leads [e-mail]

and hosts the world's best email and
retention podcast, fellow podcaster,

where he helps direct to consumer and
commerce brands turn email, SMS and onsite

experience into predictable revenue.

So if you care about.

Retention, profitability
and building an audience.

You actually own this one's
for you and I'm really excited

to hear Jordan's insight.

Jordan, welcome.

Jordan: Thanks.

Great to be here.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Yeah, my pleasure.

Okay, so I know this is kind of
a boring way to start, but I'd

love to hear how you got here.

You worked in Amazon, you worked
for other agencies, but you've

done some really big things.

how did you get interested in this
field and how does that shape the way

you address your work at Pilot House?

Jordan: Yeah.

So I mean, essentially my entire
adult life, I've been doing

e-commerce at the age of 21.

I got a job answering the phones on
the weekend in the first tech boom,

And just kind of progressed from there.

It was a book company that
after a, long process.

Including all kinds of regulatory
stuff they had to go through with

the Canadian government because books
were a heritage agency in Canada.

All this crazy stuff eventually
got bought by Amazon,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Jordan: And so you know, at
which point I became a product

manager for email for Amazon.

And then after that, more
startups after that realtor.com,

a NewsCorp company.

So just kind of all over the place.

And eventually I just.

Really, really good at working
with any part of the business

where we know who the customer is.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: Right along the way, even
before I started working in marketing,

I was working doing database analysis.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Jordan: and I was working at this one
startup for a long time, and at a startup

you can wear lots of different hats.

So working with database,
suddenly CRM made sense to me.

Email made sense to me.

and then once, I got into email.

I just started working bottom of
funnel, so CRO I mean, after 25 years,

it all kind of just blends into your
skillset and interest just seems to

be click and how we treat somebody.

After you spent all that money on
advertising to somebody, you treat them

after they walk in your front door?

Yeah.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Interesting.

Well, you know, those are some interesting
stops and especially like early Amazon

days when it was still like a book
company that sounds like a bygone.

Era, but obviously pretty critical to how
it got to be the behemoth it is today.

So you were, you know, right there at
the first and a key part of that growth.

Now,

Jordan: a, there was a time when we
were actually kind of just wondering,

is Amazon gonna go to business?

Right, because Amazon actually

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: can you imagine.

Jordan: while we were competing with them.

But of course, the way it
ended up we got devoured.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Well,
I can imagine that was probably

on a lot of people's minds, you
know, like I know after the.com

crash and, you know,
there's some issues there.

But clearly pretty safely in strong
position in business right now.

Jordan: Yeah.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: now,
so I, I wanna drill into one

of your areas of expertise.

Email marketing.

Which is an interesting one.

There's a lot of you know, people
that are really enthusiastic about

it, others that have sworn off it.

So tell us why you think email and
maybe even SMS are still relevant

and even more relevant than ever.

Jordan: Yeah.

I look, I'm a quant by nature,
and so I've had to prove this

even within my own organization.

we're a multi-channel agency, so I've
had to kind of prove to the team why

would you wanna include email in there.

And so some things I've done that
just show that it is effective.

We look at where customers come from.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: And we, you know, if I use a
simple model of recent prospect, recent

buyer, stale prospect, stale buyer, and
address is stale after 90 days, right?

It's actually 30 for
prospects, 90 for customers.

Little in the weeds,
but we show that look.

Recent business, like recent first
time buyers is 75% of any business.

So whatever comes in the top of the
funnel, you know, within a month,

you know, you've got a buyer, you
know, perfect, like, perfect handoff

from advertising to the site.

And it closes.

it's 75% of the business.

the, actual average is 74 point something.

It's 75, which leaves a whole lot of
place where that's a quarter of the

business slipped through the cracks and.

the one channel that is touching all of
those parts of the business is email.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: Email.

You can still reach somebody three years
later and you don't have to pay again

to put them in the advertising funnel.

Right.

And you know, additionally on that
same analysis, so say stale buyers.

You know, it might be
10, 15% of a business.

well, it's 50% of the revenue
that we see from email, right?

In fact, two thirds of the revenue
in email are from customers.

So if you want to drive low cost
revenue, you want to talk to your

customers, So just when we go
into the numbers and we look at.

Where email is touching, who
email is affecting, we can see

clearly that it drives results
that other channels can't drive.

Or if they do, they
drive at very great cost.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, you know,
the numbers bear it out.

So that's fantastic.

Now I know you talk about using email
to improve paid advertising, ROI

how does that work and how are most
brands maybe missing that connection?

Jordan: Yeah.

Well, we have a concept called
don't chase the same dollar.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: Right.

don't want to chase the same dollar
that the advertising team is chasing.

of course, email is there.

Someone shows up.

Remember this perfect little world.

Someone shows up and they make their
first purchase within 30 days, right?

Of course, there's abandoned cart emails
that will go out and we will assist.

I would only call that an assist.

Of course, email's not driving that.

But when we don't chase the same dollar,
when we chase addresses that are not in

that perfect world, if we drive revenue
from those addresses, which email does

you drive up your top line revenue
without driving up your ad expense?

Which decreases your
marketing expense ratio,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Jordan: what you're paying,
headline for any dollar.

And if your constraint is your
marketing expense ratio, if you say,

well, this is the roas we need, your
ROAS improved and you can spend more.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: And if you think about,
you know, online marketing

as a game of inches, right?

If you think about that, if you just
have a better marketing based roas.

Then the next guy, single time
you're just getting that extra inch.

you're producing a bit more so you're
able to get a better deal from your

manufacturer and you just over time
scale faster than the company that is

not marketing properly to its customers.

Right.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Jordan: yeah, so very important is
that to maybe say it in the simplest

way, you wanna spread the peanut
butter evenly across the toast, right?

You don't want these lumps of the toast
that have all this peanut butter, and then

there's these dry bites that have nothing.

And so email lets you plainly spread
the peanut butter so you hit every

single address, even if you use the
right tactics, even going back years.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Okay.

Smooth peanut butter guy, not chunky.

Okay, good to.

Alright, well you know, as far as
best practices around using email.

And, you know, other optimizations,
you know, it sounds like, you know,

your proponent of, of email enhancing
your overall marketing spend.

What are some of these best practices
that they, you know, a brand should be

using when it comes to email campaigns?

Email marketing, before
they start scaling ad spend.

Jordan: Well, if you look at just
bottom line where revenue comes

from using email, the first thing
that comes from is inboxing.

You gotta get in the inbox.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Jordan: you can't.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Jordan: But after that, it's abandonment.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm

Jordan: and some people think of
abandonment as, there's an email

that goes out that says, cut
you looking, you know, and you,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: sure.

Jordan: click on the email and
of course that is abandonment.

But there's a much world to that.

Like I mean, Amazon
inspired recommendations.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: kind of abandonment and
you can feed those to someone

over a long period of time.

You know, they inserted into the catalog.

They didn't purchase in
that part of the catalog.

We tried them.

Hey, caught you looking.

And then over a period of time we tried
to insert them into another part of

the catalog using, you know, perhaps
dynamic recommendations or something

like that to show them the product
they want and give them a second pass.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: should be a,
say 12 week operation.

Not just a one week operation, you

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Jordan: how do we speak to someone
specifically after they visited our site.

I mean, if you go into your
database and you say, how many

people on this have clicked twice?

It's gonna be a very small portion of your
addresses have ever even clicked twice.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Jordan: that is so precious.

You want to think for a long period
of time how we're gonna treat

these people, what we're gonna show
them, where we're gonna send them.

And when you have that figured out and
you know that you're squeezing all the

juice you can from the rag for that visit,
well then you go and you start spend.

Right?

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Right.

Okay.

No, I think that's great.

Now maybe we can jump to the journey
a user takes when they get to a site.

Now you're involved in this journey.

You know, it goes from maybe the email
marketing as an early contact, but

what, tell us about the psychological
journey a user takes and that a

marketer should take into account
when this user lands on a site.

You know, I think you've mentioned 122nd
psychological journey, if I recall.

Jordan: Yeah, I did.

we talked about that before.

So,

like.

Let's just imagine some site funnels for a

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sure.

Jordan: I'll use like an example.

I recall, you know, I audit lots of
sites and one site that we audited

recently got to their homepage and
on their homepage, you know, they had

their logo right top left, and then
below that were featuring another brand.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Oh.

Jordan: brand inside of their network,
and it was like an industrial good.

So, you know I would say maybe, you
know, just like if you imagine an

industrial good manufacturer, maybe
they haven't got the, you know, yet the

most sophisticated approach to their
website, that kind of thing can happen.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Jordan: against them, they're killing
it at building their industrial good.

what it failed at
immediately was, where am I?

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: every single page is
supposed to do, where am I?

What do you want me to do?

What's in it for me?

And actually before that, there's supposed
to be, is this site even professional?

Right?

Like does it load fast?

Are there errors?

Okay, fine.

Where am I?

Okay, fine.

Oh, that's where I am.

Okay.

What's in it for me now
that I know where I am?

Have you got anything for me?

And then finally, what
do you want me to do?

First of all, you can go back
and look at your average site

time you know, in kind of Google
Analytics or something like that.

And you'll, you'll often find it's
something like two minutes or whatever.

Well, look, if you can't do a purchase
in two minutes your average site

time's two minutes you're kind of
working on your back foot already, so.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: Today, just talk through
these really quickly this is

there, there's research that's
gone behind these timeframes.

You have to show that you're a
professional site within two seconds.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Okay.

Jordan: Explain to people where they are.

Where am I?

Three seconds after that.

Within five seconds in total.

And the key things for where am I is like,
yeah, the branding, the logo, but also.

selling products, you have to show
them this is very e-comm focused.

You have to show them a product
they're interested in so they know,

Hey, I'm, I'm looking for jeans.

Oh, there's some jeans.

If, if you think about
when you're shopping,

all the time, the second you're
not into what you're seeing,

you just click the back button.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: yeah.

Jordan: We all want it,
we want it so fast now.

and yeah, then after
that, what's in it for me?

gonna be a lot of features and benefits,
videos testimonials, all those kinds of

things to confirm, you know, that yeah,
there's, there's something here for me.

This deal's gonna work out for me.

that, you know, that's,
that's gotta happen.

has to happen total time, 15 seconds.

If you can't get someone to your
site explain to them and make them

believe that there's something
there for them within 15 seconds.

Session's over pretty much.

And they've lost, they've lost track and
they're, they're going somewhere else.

then you've got up to 120
seconds, two minutes a conversion.

And that conversion
could be a microversion.

Easiest is, Hey, let's do the popup again.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Sure.

Jordan: You can safely do your first
pop after five seconds because they

know where they are within five seconds.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Jordan: know where I am.

If you do the pop too early,
they gotta click out of it.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Right.

Jordan: After two minutes, you
can pop again or hopefully get

them through a funnel and actually
add an item to their cart.

If they add an item to their cart, they're
gonna get their cart abandoned, email,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: of things.

And so that's, that is that time period.

You know, and there's, you know, for
sure we can talk more about that forever.

We can talk about five funnels that
we talk about, or 10 choke points.

Yeah.

But that's what has to happen on
a page within, within two minutes.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah, no,
I mean that's even just, that is

very, very useful and illuminating.

I think our audience could
get a lot out of that now.

I want to, we're gonna get to the
bottom of the funnel because I

think that's an interesting topic
that you have a lot to say about.

But can you tell us as we're navigating
and thinking through a funnel,

getting a non-customer prospect
to become a customer, what are the

key data points or metrics that a
brand should really obsess over?

and are there others that they
should just discard, you know,

that maybe are overrated?

Jordan: Sorry.

Can you repeat Reid?

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Sure, you bet.

And I'm, you know, we're, we're doing
this over the script, which often,

often can choke a little bit, but the.

So what, where I was going with this
is, so when, when we're thinking really

deeply about you know, obsessively about
funnels, like you mentioned, and you know,

we're monitoring how well they're working.

What are some metrics that you think
brands should really obsess over

and others that maybe are overrated?

Jordan: Got it.

Yeah.

Well look what we, the core
things we look at on a website,

we always look at conversion rate.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: is.

Kind of problemed because the second
you send a lot of less qualified

traffic, let's say you're really
trying to grow your business, we're

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Jordan: do a bunch of kind
of reach advertising through

meta or something like that.

gonna crash your conversion rate,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Sure.

Jordan: So but conversion
rates still critical.

If you take a conversion rate of 1%
which is, you know, I'd say below

average for an e-comm company,
we see a headline about 2.05

median.

Double your revenue with no ad expense.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: that conversion, I
mean, think about it, right?

So that conversion rate is critical.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Jordan: your conversion rate from 1.5

to 2%, you know it grows your
revenue massively without even

driving more traffic, without
even driving more awareness.

So it's a critical metric.

The fact it is kind of troubled because
as you change your traffic sources,

the conversion rate changes, which
makes it hard to measure, but you

can look at your headline and you can
look at your direct channel, which is

kind of all of the measurable channels
which is more stable over time.

Look, those two metrics on a site,
the first thing I look at after that,

probably add to cart rate, right?

to get an idea how many people are,
progressing and hitting that microversion.

Like a 50-year-old protocol and
it's part of everyone's life.

Like I, I don't know the number, but
there's this massive percentage of the

population that read their email before
they kiss their significant other.

it's just.

Part of our lives, you don't even see it.

Right.

But it is, so, it's this critical.

it's the largest communication
network on earth.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: billion users on email.

You can reach anybody.

And because of that, because it's
also decentralized, it was given

to us by the gods of the internet.

It's just a little bit funky.

And so there's all kinds of metrics that,
that throw false signals at this point.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: and we discussed the
results that you get from email.

I mean, bottom line companies that
have good email programs succeed,

you can't scale without email.

So how do you deal with metrics?

I'll talk through a couple.

Open rates are wrong now.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Jordan: are totally false.

Open rates are elevated by about two x

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Ah,

Jordan: open rates.

You see open rates start getting below 20%
and you're probably in the spam folder,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: hm.

Jordan: I look at, the first thing
I do when I look at an account

is, where's the open rate at?

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Jordan: so I can see is it
healthy, is it not healthy?

I don't look a whole
lot at platform revenue.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Jordan: a lot working Klaviyo.

Everybody looks a lot
at the Klaviyo revenue.

The way that it works.

Platform revenue attributes to an open, so
if someone didn't even click on the email,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: also of all the false
apple privacy opens that end

up inside of your open rate.

If someone didn't even open but
there was a false open and they buy,

the revenue gets attributed to it.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Oh,

Jordan: say revenue's like down
on the list of numbers I look at

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: okay.

Jordan: of email account.

But of course, it's what everybody
else looks at immediately.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Jordan: so better maybe to look at traffic

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: to go to another system and
look at a click-based attribution

model you can get outta Shopify
Triple A, something like that.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

No, that's great.

Well, you know that the funnel always
leads us to the bottom of the funnel, the

conversion to become a customer or client.

Tell us a little bit about what evidence
you've seen that investing in the bottom

of the funnel is so indispensable.

Jordan: Yeah.

Well, so we do this specifically
to justify our channel within, a

company that does say, five, maybe
six channels at Pilot House in total,

five different business activities.

Our e-comm strategists are always
saying, well, what should we add?

'cause a client will come and
they'll have, so much money

to invest in advertising.

So when we look at, say, large
and scaling brands, five, 10

million, Shopify, maybe more.

and we look at what their
MER is with advertising,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Jordan: And then look at much money
would you have made if you had

just taken the money you spent on
email and put it into advertising?

it's a true opportunity cost.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Right.

Jordan: and if you run this,
it's kind of technical.

Some of these things I'm saying
are kind of technical, but if you

run it on a seven day last click,

You make around 10 times more on your

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Jordan: email than you do if you would've
invested that in advertising and.

The larger a company gets, the larger
that gets where, you know, the money

that you invest in email can do
20 or 30 times more at full scale.

You know, if you're like a
nine figure brand than if you'd

spent that money in advertising.

Because when you think about it, like if
you've got an advertising budget of say.

million.

what's that extra five or 10,000
that month that you were gonna

spend, you know, on email?

It's like nothing.

It's a drop in the bucket.

But as I just told you, email
reaches your whole audience,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Jordan: So again, born out in the numbers.

Anybody there who's thinking about
you know, if anybody out there who's

not doing email, it's like, you
better start doing email, basically.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Jordan: so that's some,
real hard evidence.

Also if you implement funnels on your
site, this should be done with, you

know, kind of heat mapping software.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: this, we have this concept
of primary and secondary choke point.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Jordan: choke point is what
someone must click to progress

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Jordan: to cart button
is a primary choke point.

Secondary choke point is what on
that page is driving the most.

Attention

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: the primary choke point.

Secondary choke point could be like image
carousel, kind of the image under the

primary image on a product detail page.

It could be a features of benefit section.

be something totally different and it's
actually just distracting somebody.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Jordan: you implement funnels and
work on choke points and optimize

someone's trip towards adding
something carton purchasing.

It's like we consistently see
people getting an extra 2%

on their add to cart rate.

So you know, maybe from 7% to
9% you consistently see it.

So because what you're trying to do with
these funnels Is the number of clicks from

someone going to your homepage or to a
landing page get something in their cart.

And that's specifically usually
stopping them from meandering.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: when they're confused
and they don't have all the

information right in front of them.

So there's another example of
just benefits that you see.

If you invite, I install heat mapping
and run heat funnels and run email.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: That's awesome.

Well Jordan, it's been fantastic to hear
from you and learn from you and I'm sure

you have enough content for a many hour.

Long podcast or a series of them.

You know, so I really appreciate all
this insight in such a short time.

If people would like to learn more
work with you you know, remind us

your podcast where can they find you?

Jordan: Absolutely.

Thanks for that.

Yeah, I'm the host of the World's
Best Email and Retention podcast,

It's like a different podcast from
many pods in that my episodes are

sometimes 50 minutes, an hour.

and I get into a lot of the things
that we're discussing, which

is how email actually works.

Things you can do today to
kind of improve your email.

I do have guests on but the guests
are, generally services that we use,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Jordan: also run a team of
three five in an agency.

So we'll bring guests on and, and I'll
say, look, here's the tool that we use.

You know, and, you can meet
the founder, et cetera.

That's the world's best
email retention podcast.

You can follow it on your
favorite podcast app today.

of course you can you can
reach [e-mail].

You can come and fill out the lead
form and I'll speak to you directly.

I'm also, I'm not super active on ex
formerly Twitter, but I am Jordan Gordon.

OnX, formerly Twitter.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Jordan: thanks for having me on.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Thanks so much, Jordan.

It's been a pleasure and you
know, please reach out to Jordan.

it sounds like you have a wealth
of insight on email and can really

help you get a lot more ROI out
of your overall marketing spend

using email and other techniques.

So thanks so much.

Jordan: Yeah, thank you very much.

And hey, everybody out there,
entrepreneurs, executives,

spammers and webmasters.

It was nice to talk to you.

Speaker 2: Want to stay ahead of what's
actually working in marketing right now.

Head over to Market surge.io

and see how we're helping businesses
grow smarter, faster, and louder.

That's market surge.io

because your next breakthrough
shouldn't be a guess.