Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Susan Bryant is the Principal of MB Group, a public accounting firm headquartered in Plano, TX. Susan and her team are dedicated to transforming businesses by maturing their finance function. In this episode, Susan chats with Stuart about her journey to public accounting, leadership insights, and the secret recipe that consistently delivers financial success for her clients.
Join Stuart McLeod as he interviews the world's top accounting leaders to understand their story, how they operate, their goals, mission, and top advice to help you run your accounting firm.
Stuart 00:00:06.115 [music] Hi, I'm Stuart McLeod, CEO and co-founder of Karbon. Welcome to the Accounting Leaders Podcast, the show where I go behind the scenes with the world's top accounting leaders. [music] Today I'm joined by Susan Bryant, the CPA and owner at MB Group, a public accounting firm that provides businesses with solution-oriented accounting services. Susan is really passionate about transforming businesses and the lives of their owners by professionalizing the finance function in their organizations. Susan is a fierce advocate for her profession and was named one of the Top 50 Women in Accounting in 2021. It's my pleasure to welcome to the Accounting Leaders Podcast, Susan Bryant. Good morning, Susan. Welcome to the Accounting Leaders Podcast.
Susan 00:00:51.854 Well, thanks so much for having me on the show. It's great to be here. Thank you.
Stuart 00:00:55.906 Now, you look very fresh for somebody that was out partying all night. Tell me how the concert was.
Susan 00:01:00.625 Oh, man. Yeah, Lady Gaga, she put on a really great show. But yeah, coming home at 2 o'clock in the morning and getting up for a whole day of accounting tasks is-- whew. Might be getting a little too old for this. [laughter]
Stuart 00:01:15.317 Well, you look fresh and fantastic, so it must have been a very-- you've pulled up very well. Which stadium? How many people? Is this part of a sort of big post-COVID tour? I haven't seen this advertised or anything. But Lady Gaga, I'm probably not on her newsletter. [laughter]
Susan 00:01:35.657 Yeah, I wasn't either. I just had kind of expressed to my husband, like, "I really like a few of these songs." And so he saw that she was coming to-- she performed at Globe Life Stadium in Arlington here near the DFW area. So, I mean, it was packed. Lots of people. Yeah. It looked like a completely full house. I mean, all the tiers of the stadium all the way up to the tippy, tippy top, just full of people, [laughter] so, yeah.
Stuart 00:02:01.241 We want live music and shows after COVID, right? It's been difficult few years. [laughter]
Susan 00:02:08.925 Yeah. I feel like everything's kind of back, here anyway. I can't tell you the number of happy hours, business events, breakfast, lunches, I mean, you name it, conferences, everything is full throttle, which is fabulous and really great, and really driving a lot of business. Enterprise is really compounded by everyone's efforts to really make things happen. So it's nice to see. You're right, refreshing after a couple of years of everything being so radically different than what we knew before.
Stuart 00:02:38.474 Tell me about your start in accounting and how that came about. We'll start at the start. Did you do a college degree in accounting? And was it a traditional entry to the industry?
Susan 00:02:49.943 No, I got into accounting all sorts of backwards. That includes the education piece of it. So I always knew I wanted to be in business. When I was 13, I asked my parents for a briefcase for Christmas. So I was, I guess, sort of programmed. It was born into me. I wanted to be in business.
Stuart 00:03:07.179 Were your parents running small businesses?
Susan 00:03:09.978 No, my dad worked for a chemical plant almost his entire career, and my mom was a stay-at-home mom. So they knew they were not entrepreneurs. Not even a little bit, so [laughter] yeah.
Stuart 00:03:23.991 There you go. You were the breakout of the family. Were you?
Susan 00:03:26.873 Definitely. I mean, I was sort of conditioned, "You're going to go to college and you're going to get a really good job, and that's a job you're going to do for the whole rest of your life." So when I got to college and I decided I wanted to do marketing, I started doing marketing. And then I went to the college career center, and they said, "Susan, if you take some accounting classes, you'll get an even better job." So I said, "Well, my mom will be extremely happy to hear this. I will take some accounting classes." And then I took more accounting classes, and I kept taking accounting classes, which kind of worked out sort of interesting, because then my mother was saying, "Why are you taking all these extra classes? [laughter] These are expensive." It was sort of interesting. So I ended up getting a degree in marketing, but I just had lots of accounting hours, so I went on to complete the necessary requirements to sit for the CPA exam. I started off my career in internal audit, working for a bank. I previously in high school and college was a bank teller. So banking was a natural transition for me.
Stuart 00:04:21.887 Behind the bar, but without alcohol, right?
Susan 00:04:24.150 Yeah. [laughter] Right.
Stuart 00:04:26.603 And probably paying better, I hope.
Susan 00:04:28.378 Yeah. When I left the banking industry, I mean, to go into public accounting, after I passed the CPA exam, I took a pay cut. [laughter]
Stuart 00:04:36.030 From bank teller to CPA. [laughter]
Susan 00:04:37.921 Yeah. And looking back, I mean, why did I do that? I just felt so compelled that if I had the certification as a CPA, I really needed to go find out what it meant to really be a CPA, and the only way to do that is to get into public accounting. So I did not start working for the Big Four. I went probably the other way. I went to the smallest firm possible, where it was near where I lived, and it was one partner and me, and that was it.
Stuart 00:05:03.775 Where did you grow up then?
Susan 00:05:05.000 I grew up in a really small town in Texas called Port Lavaca, which is on the coast in between Houston and Corpus. So I just kind of migrated through Austin, where I went to school, and then to Dallas, and I've just kind of stayed here ever since.
Stuart 00:05:17.217 You and one partner? So the enterprise had doubled in size overnight?
Susan 00:05:21.855 Right. [laughter] Exactly. It was a really fascinating thing. So it was just me. I mean, I didn't even know what a trial balance was.
Stuart 00:05:27.845 Even with all those classes and everything?
Susan 00:05:29.786 Even with all those classes, I had no-- even by passing the CPA exam, all the prep review, everything, I knew nothing about the practice of public accounting. So when I got there, I just kind of get thrown in. And I'm a self-starter, so for me, it was probably a really good thing. I just had to figure it all out. So I did tax preparation. We did assurance work. We did a little bit of accounting. We did LIFO inventory and tracking, I mean, you name it. They said, "Who's going to work on that?" "Well, Susan's here, so [laughter] just get her to do it."
Stuart 00:06:06.405 LIFO, FIFO or inventory accounting, cost accounting, manufacturing. Did you do any sort of manufacturing accounting as well? Because that's nearly the full gamut. [laughter]
Susan 00:06:17.447 I have now. But at the time, that particular CPA who I worked for was really focused on working with auto dealerships.
Stuart 00:06:24.612 Auto dealerships. Right. So big inventory, stock management, leases, commissions, payroll, complex payroll, right, because-- I don't know if it's still this way, but real estate agents and auto dealers, right, in America, they-- it's illegal in Australia. You can't do this. [laughter] But they basically work for nothing and it's all commission, right?
Susan 00:06:46.986 Yeah. I think they usually get a low base salary, and then they're paid based on-- what they call the F&I guys, right? So they're the ones who are selling you the extended warranty and the gap coverage.
Stuart 00:06:57.813 Oh. The F doesn't stand for what I thought it did. [laughter]
Susan 00:07:00.917 Yeah. [laughter]. But yeah. And also, auto dealerships, they've been pretty innovative as outside of inventory. These captives that they created, these warranty programs, these are mini-businesses to all of them. So yeah, it was a education. I really enjoyed my time there. I learned a lot. I mean, I got to do everything. So I kind of laid the foundation, I think, for me to be able to take that information and figure out what I'd like to do best and kind of what I'm great at.
Stuart 00:07:31.180 That must have been extensive sort of groundwork for the rest of your career. How long were you there? And what happened to that firm? And did it sort of grow on the back of your hard work or it was always supposed to be like a one and a half man band? [laughter]
Susan 00:07:47.216 I think the challenge with practitioners is that they're not necessarily visionaries for their own business, right? They get another client, and they're still a practitioner. They're not really thinking about the scaling of their own firm, not in that way. Practitioners, they're not really taught the business side of business. This is almost like doctors and dentists not being taught the business side of the business, right? So it's very similar. So now I left there, I went to a larger firm. That's where I met the founders of The MB Group. And when they founded The MB Group, then I came over here and joined them. Now, the founders are now gone from this firm and myself and my business partner, Janet, we are the remaining two who are kind of carrying on the legacy.
Stuart 00:08:32.110 Great. And when did you join MB Group?
Susan 00:08:35.825 That was 2006. So it's been a long time.
Stuart 00:08:39.499 My math isn't very good this early. 16 years at the moment. And when did you take over the partnership?
Susan 00:08:45.865 2009. So it was when I joined. Yeah.
Stuart 00:08:48.519 All right. Okay--
Susan 00:08:50.574 Yeah, pretty early on. And I kind of got phased in incrementally, but then really kind of assumed all full ownership in 2018. So sort of kind of stair-stepped our way in there over a period of time. That's usually how it goes, right? But over that time, you just figure out sort of where your placed and what differentiates you in the marketplace and the things that we were just kind of really excelling at and the things that our clients wanted from us and what more clients wanted from us. So naturally, we just evolved, right? This is sort of how it goes.
Stuart 00:09:23.307 Yeah, no, I get it. Well, firstly, you're still enjoying it.
Susan 00:09:26.183 Oh, yeah, I am. It's changed so much. The thing is, is that when you join a firm and it's a baby, right, it's less than a year old, it's a totally different thing than working for a firm where now-- we've got 16 years under our belt. Totally different setup. I mean, my job changes. Every year, I feel like it's different, only because our priority shift. And so I have to be different to serve my clients differently and better and also serve my employees better. So I feel like I've got to constantly be growing and improving. It's almost relentless. I have to be ahead of them in terms of my own growth, because I think that's the definition of a leader, is someone who is thinking beyond where we are right now. So it's a constant effort to be really reenvisioning over and over and over again what direction we go next. What are we working on? What are our priorities? What are the pathways for our people? How can we gain more talent? I mean, all the things that people talk about on all these podcasts, right? That's the job of the leader of the accounting firm to be thinking about all those things.
Stuart 00:10:31.234 We've talked more about accounting today than I do usually. So we're getting our accounting quota and our leadership quota up. Usually we just talk complete shit. So I appreciate you bringing up the standard [laughter] of our podcast, Susan, very much. [laughter] But you're right, part of leadership is looking around corners, right?
Susan 00:10:48.682 It is. And sometimes I feel like that's also what our clients need us to be doing. It's one of the things that I've probably been-- we hear a lot going on in the industry right now. I mean, I went to Scaling New Heights, to Woodard's Conference in June, and it's just plastered over CPA.com. Everywhere is the notion of advisory services. And everybody has a different notion as to what this means, what it's defined by. But I think at the end of the day, it really has to do with accountants being prepared to assist their clients with financial leadership, right? Helping them to figure this out. So that means we have to be better leaders, and that's hard.
Stuart 00:11:31.183 Yeah. And that's never been true within the last few years, right? What is your client base typically like? Did you have clients that were dramatically affected all the way through to sort of not so much? How did that sort of-- what was your experience with your clients during COVID?
Susan 00:11:47.978 Yeah. I mean, we did have clients that were impacted as hard-- I mean, even if it was just for that initial quarter of the shutdown, of the first few months.
Stuart 00:11:57.400 Yeah. [laughter] Nobody knew what the hell was going on. [laughter]
Susan 00:12:00.372 Right. It's almost like shockwave, right? That just [inaudible]. But we were very swift. I called every single business client, and we talked about PPP here in America. That was the method for gaining some financial relief.
Stuart 00:12:20.270 Distribution of taxpayers funds back into the economy. Well, in America, it's Chinese funds. [laughter]
Susan 00:12:26.183 That's right. Yeah. So I think the good thing is, is that for us, anyway, I think that action really helped our clients. And not everyone needed us in the same way, but for the people who really did not know how to navigate it, they had someone to help them. And now when we're gaining, clients coming to us, I can see the difference between the businesses who had a solid adviser from a financial standpoint during COVID versus the ones who didn't. It is obvious. Just the state of their business, their cash balances, the strength of their financial standing is totally impacted by whether or not they were working with a good CPA or not.
Stuart 00:13:05.892 Yep. Yep. Yep. And I know some accountants sort of set up a whole sort of PPP group. I was just pounding through a job keeper in Australia and PPP in the US. Was that your experience, you sort of set up a group that gained experience on the job to sort of get through that period?
Susan 00:13:27.916 Yeah. I mean, we just kind of divided and conquered. And the crazy thing is that we were in the middle of tax season too, so it's not like we could just drop everything. I mean, and we have ongoing accounting that still has to happen because you still have to be really monitoring your financials during that time too. So I mean, we just kind of divided among the people that we had, all of our staff, and everybody was just all hands on deck and let's get it done. So I guess that's where you played everybody's strengths. Yeah. Who's good at what? [laughter] And we just get everybody moving. But yeah, we have amazing team here. So I really think that's what kind of speaks volumes to our ability to help our clients. Yeah. But we've had a lot of clients, though, who have-- shoot, the pandemic has been phenomenal for their business. It's like they're printing money almost because of how the pandemic has driven the need in the marketplace for the services they provide, so.
Stuart 00:14:22.200 What sort of businesses come to mind? What clients?
Susan 00:14:25.904 Recruiting and staffing companies, for sure, because as soon as people needed people again, they needed them now. And so they really benefited significantly. Construction, of course, because people were at home and they were doing renovations or building a new house. Real estate markets have gone crazy. Pool companies. Pool construction. I mean, it's really interesting to sort of see-- we definitely don't want to have another pandemic [inaudible] ever again. So it's just kind of interesting to think about that a little bit. What industry has really thrived in a time when sickness was something that was either feared or just prevalent? Right?
Stuart 00:15:07.228 It is interesting to think about. I mean, so many things going on in the world, right, like the mental health implications of the kids not going to school, missing out on rituals like graduations and weddings and funerals and-- the world was obviously-- I mean, saying something stupid, isn't it? But dramatically impacted. But what do you think about this? I think we went through the Great Resignation, so to speak, and all of that, but I think there's something more to it in that the workplace in particular will continue to evolve over the next 10 years. People still want that social connection. Working from home or working from anywhere, that's great, but there is this sort of human characteristic that desires purpose and output and feel like you're contributing. And particular in Western-- I mean, most societies, work is the common method for that. And so I think that there is more of evolution to come in all of this. I don't think it's just all jump in a van and drive around Europe and work on your laptop. I don't think that that's going to be the solution for everybody. [laughter]
Susan 00:16:18.074 Yeah. I think we have to rethink everything. Really, now we need to have an office for people who do want to have that connection. We probably need an office for the people who want both. They want to work from home and they want to come to the office. And then we probably need to have flexibility for people who are only going to work from home. And it's all the things because to attract the talent, we're going to have to really be able-- it's like we got to play in all the sandboxes. Okay, we're flexible. Same thing on talent, right? So we might have to go search in a bunch of different ways. We got to get the bots. We got to get the AI. We got to get the technology. But we also have to get-- we probably also need to look at outsourcing some too because we're not going to find all the talent here in our local areas 30 minutes from our office or maybe even within the confines of our countries. And then we also have to grow and retain talent that is-- we're going to have to go cultivate it. So go into other industries and pull out people that have the aptitude for accounting and teach them what they need to know. And I mean, I think we got to do all the things. It's all the things. It's not just one thing. Because I think that that's how it was before. We're going to go to colleges, and we're going to recruit, and we're going to get a base. And then 10% are going to leave, and the rest of them are in 40 years the next partners.
Stuart 00:17:31.341 Yeah. [laughter] Try selling that to them. [laughter]
Susan 00:17:33.815 Yeah. Isn't just not going to work.
Stuart 00:17:36.470 No, it doesn't. If you said four months, maybe, not 40 years.
Susan 00:17:40.726 Well, that's what it's going to take for them to get enough money to buy out the partners who want to leave, right? So it's interesting. I mean, even here in the DFW area, I've seen people leave pretty sizable firms. They're maybe in charge of the employee retention credits, they learn how to do it, and they're like, "I mean, I'm basically making a bunch of money for these partners. I'm just going to go off and do this on my own." Because they can make a lot more money doing it then be their own boss. So I think we're going to have to be a little bit more creative in order to keep that talent in our company and not-- these traditional firm ideologies have got to just-- we're going to have to ditch them. They got to go away.
Stuart 00:18:18.873 So there's three topics that could be podcasts all by themselves. So AI and, I guess, the machine doing the work which is traditionally done by people. And typically in most industries, accounting no exception, you kind of start at the least value work, right? So typically that's kind of reconciliation or matching bank accounts to expenses, matching the very lowest-- well, it's not even compliance yet, is it? It's just sort of the foundation of good books. Have you used, say, a Botkeeper or a Pilot or any of these services that are offering that?
Susan 00:18:57.282 Yeah. We're implementing Botkeeper. I think it's got to happen, which means we have to convert everything to QuickBooks Online, which will-- that gives frowny faces in lots of teams' messages for people. [laughter] Our team really likes QuickBooks Desktop, but it's the future. I think one of the things that, as accountants, we sort of-- I don't know, we're very averse to the change. We like what we like because it works for us, because it's fast or whatever. But the future is the future, and sometimes we got to face it. We're going to have to accept that it's not exactly our way. We didn't get to decide. It's not perfect. But in order to take advantage of some of this technology, we've got to adapt, and we just have to say, "It's okay that it's not our favorite." And everybody's just going to have to get on board and we got to go that direction. So that's hard, but yeah, that's a commitment for us, is more technology and learning more about it. There's so much out there. Sometimes I feel like it's changing so rapidly. It's hard to keep up with.
Stuart 00:20:05.367 Yep. So trying to reduce cost in the bottom end. That makes sense. What other services or technologies have you looked at that are going to be the future of MB Group?
Susan 00:20:18.337 So we implemented SurePrep on the tax side. That's been really helpful. SafeSend, we're doing for some of the more complex returns that have to get sent out because of the way that all of the states are transmitted. That cuts down on a lot of processing time on our end of telling the client like, "Mail this payment to this place, and mail this payment to this place, and sign here," and all this business. So that speeds that up. And we are in the process of setting up and converting to Ignition for all of our billing. So that's going to get automated. I mean, if anybody is where we were, which was a time and billing software, and it was generate an invoice, receive the payment, and then get it into the general ledger, right, sync it somehow to the general ledger or record it-- I mean, it's all manual. So now that all becomes automated. So it goes from billing to collection, applying the payment to syncing into the QuickBooks file. And so, for us, that's a dream. It's so much less time that we will spend on billing so we can actually spend time doing the thing that we [laughter] should be focused on anyway, which is client work, the accounting and tax stuff.
Stuart 00:21:32.542 And how many people in the firm these days?
Susan 00:21:35.123 We are a team of 34.
Stuart 00:21:36.583 Yeah, great. So that's grown considerably over your time at the firm. What's next? What do you see as the sort of-- if we're talking about looking ahead, what do you see sort of in the next couple of years for the team?
Susan 00:21:49.125 Well, I think that the first thing is-- and I really feel like this is my mantra for next year, and that is do more, be more. Clients need more from us. So we are in the process of developing sort of a listing of all these things where we need to grow our capabilities and our skills in order to meet them where they are, or just add this to a service lineup. I mean, some of the things we know how to do, we just need to tell them we can do it, right, and help them in this way, and make it a standard operating procedure, like, "This is what we do," so. One of the things we created this year was something that I refer to as our strategic planning cadence, which is sort of an element of advisory services. So without a fancy software, right? So not going and buying any of the-- I mean, it's so hard to decide which one to get and so I was like, "I just can't make that decision, but I know my clients need more." So we just developed this cadence and basically what it does is it goes through-- it says, "The beginning of year, we're going to help them create--" what I refer to as a plan on a page. And this is something that many people use in strategic planning, but let's just understand what their top four priorities are for the year. Let's help them create a document that lays that out, details everything out. We just spend few hours with them building it, and then we brand it, print it for them, and they can distribute it to our teams and get all of the alignment in their company going, whether that's two employees, 50 employees. Everybody knows the direction that we're rowing.
Susan 00:23:16.148 So we have alignment. We know that employee alignment engagement leads to profitability. So if we can help them in that way, we're winning. Then we incorporate in midyear tax planning. So we're giving them sort of a check, that thumb in the air on this is how much you might owe in taxes. We need to start [inaudible] money away or start working on some strategies so we [inaudible] up against the yearend deadline so we got time to educate on some of the more complex advanced tax reduction strategies that exist. Some of them just take time to implement and educate around. And for people to get comfortable and not feel like they're not making a good decision, and knowledgeable about that decision. And then, of course, helping them with the budget and making sure we get a budget in place before yearend. And then the final thing that we do is we create for them a yearend review to celebrate all the victories, whether that's number of new clients or customers or employees hired, locations opened. Whatever it is that qualitatively and quantitatively speaks to the things that they want to celebrate, we've got to get that into the organization, and then track it so that they can actually see the results that they're making in their business.
Stuart 00:24:26.929 And what's been the impact of this kind of effort in the client base?
Susan 00:24:31.601 Yeah, they love it. It's been incredible really. I've seen a lot more clarity in the direction that they're going as a company. And I see my business owners also taking on more of a leadership role because we're sort of pushing them into it. We hand them this document that they've helped us to create and we say, "Go communicate it to your people. Give it to them and talk to them about it." And now they have to lead this group. Whereas before maybe they were self-employed. They'd created a job for themselves. Now we're sort of pushing them ever so gently into this much different role, and we're almost leading them in their leadership journey, and that's kind of cool.
Stuart 00:25:10.710 Yeah. And I imagine that the client base would be at a different stage in this journey, right? Some clients would be well [inaudible] with being able to do this strategic planning and well ahead of the curve, I imagine.
Susan 00:25:22.272 Oh, yeah, it runs the gamut. I mean, we definitely have clients who they do not need our help in this. They've got it. And they're experienced business owners, right? So maybe they've bought and sold businesses before. They know the ropes, right? And then I've got clients who-- they're too small and they don't need this right now. They just need the basics, like, "Get my accounting done and file tax returns and the strategic planning stuff. I'm just trying to make sure I've got enough cash to pay all my bills. I'm building my business. I don't yet have people to lead." There're just all these different stages and cycles in their evolutions. And so, yeah, it runs the gamut for sure.
Stuart 00:25:58.490 Is there a customer-- you don't have to name names if you don't want to. But is there one that sort of comes to mind that you've worked with over the years and been on their journey with them and experienced-- an interesting client, a wonderful client to work with, somebody that you've seen really thrive and be successful with your help?
Susan 00:26:19.459 Yeah. One of them that comes to mind is actually an online retailer. So anyone can buy from them, which is really cool. The company is called The ZigZag Stripe. They sell clothing. It's like a online boutique. And they are just tremendous people. Originally, they got introduced to us because the husband of the wife who started it-- he's a firefighter and we were doing some work with the firefighters' association and he said, "Hey, my wife is starting this business. Can you help us?" And it's been fascinating to see and help them over the course of their business, and to see it have grown, especially during COVID, which is so surprising. But online, anything just kind of took off during that time. Yes, everybody should check them out for sure. But tremendous being able to help on the accounting side and the tax side, and then also on the advisory, and being able to contribute in so many different ways. I mean, that's what this is all about, is seeing our clients achieve their goals, right, and that transformation that is possible. Because as soon as that business really starts to accelerate, so many good things can happen. They're extremely charitable, so they really want their organization to be able to do more to give back. So they have fundraising efforts and things like that. So it's just really cool because you can see we're helping them build this vehicle to make a even bigger difference and it's just a ripple effect through the world, I think. I think that's how it works.
Stuart 00:27:49.290 And was there a moment that you shared with them that you all sort of realized that all their hard work and all their efforts were finally coming to fruition?
Susan 00:28:00.114 Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's so gradual in some ways, I mean, because when you're working with someone so closely-- I mean, it's like watching your own child grow. So you don't notice it every day, but when your mom or aunt or old friend comes over, like, "Oh, my goodness, your child has grown so much. They're so grown up." I almost feel like that's how it is when we're working so closely with the business owners, because we're just right there alongside of them watching their baby, their business, to really kind of blossom.
Stuart 00:28:32.456 Yeah. And when your kids are growing, yeah, [laughter] you need to get out of the house and sometimes [laughter] that's the same, but. When they do something great at sport or when they get As at school or something, sometimes there's a moment that you share with your clients that-- it might be a 10th anniversary or something. Was there anything that you-- it might be their biggest sale or something. Was there anything that you sort of shared with them that was like, "Oh, fuck, all this hard work, well done, really good, I'm so proud of you"? [laughter]
Susan 00:29:01.574 Yeah. I mean, I think purchases especially of new buildings, hiring of new employees. When they're transitioning, truly building out their management team. And now they've got another person who they're trying to groom into this leadership role. I mean, I think those are the moments where you're sort of highfiving with your clients, like, "We're getting there." Right? These big things. On the flip side, for us, the things that we are celebrating for them are big wins when we come up with really awesome tax strategies for these clients, because we are just trying to keep every single dollar in that business owner's pocket because, really, we know that if they can keep that money in their business, the ROI is huge. But if we don't help them by preventing those dollars from going towards taxes, then we just know that the money is just a sunk cost. They don't get it back. There's no ROI for them. It's just gone. So we're trying to be the idea generators as much as possible. New ideas all the time on how to save taxes.
Stuart 00:30:04.398 Yes. There was a famous Australian who's dead now, but he famously said in parliament, sort of in the house, he said, "Well, the reason that I--" something along the lines of-- I'm sure I could look it up. I'm sure it'd be on YouTube or something. But he said something along the lines of, "I minimize my tax because all you bastards have got no idea how to spend it properly." [laughter]
Susan 00:30:26.640 Exactly. Yes. [laughter] It's so true, though. I mean, shoot, I just posted an article on LinkedIn on Sunday-- The Washington Times did this. They had a reporter go in and look at the IRS offices in Austin, Texas and--
Stuart 00:30:41.961 Oh, yes, I saw this one where-- [laughter] the 80 billion extra, or the 80,000 employees or something.
Susan 00:30:48.109 Right. They're using COBOL. The system is in COBOL. It's black with green-- what? And fax machines. We have to fax information to the IRS. That is so antiquated. I jokingly said on LinkedIn, like, "What? Are they still using BlackBerrys and pagers too? I mean, do they use abacuses, or?" [laughter] I don't know.
Stuart 00:31:11.431 There's a dozen COBOL programmers hanging around making $2,000 an hour for the IRS. [laughter]
Susan 00:31:17.704 Right. That's where the 10 whatever, how many billions of dollars-- I can't remember how many billions of dollars they're going to get. Yeah, they're probably going to go to the one guy who can fix the machine to sort the mail or something.
Stuart 00:31:29.185 Maybe I should dust off my COBOL from-- I did one class of COBOL at college. There you go. [laughter]
Susan 00:31:35.111 Maybe or become conversant away from COBOL experts because at some point they're going to have to get off of this program. [laughter]
Stuart 00:31:41.650 We'll put the link to that article in the show notes. But it was the picture of the cafeteria, wasn't it? It's like, "This is what [laughter] the IRS needs." It's quite funny. I mean, around the world, IRS is diabolical for its technological progression. But Australia is sort of slowly getting there, but sort of seemed to find new and fascinating ways of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The UK, they're making tax digital projects. While delayed, is at least a step in the right direction, right? They're trying. [laughter]
Susan 00:32:12.404 Yeah, they're trying. I mean, in the United States, it's like, "We'll just hire 87,000 people."
Stuart 00:32:17.333 The IRS is very trying. [laughter]
Susan 00:32:19.387 And where are you going to find these 87,000 people? That's what I'd like to know. But, hey, I'm glad that's their problem to solve and not mine. Although it does impact us in a significant way, I mean, because we just can't get anybody to answer the phone. We can't solve problems, notices. I'm in so many Facebook groups with other CPAs and, I mean, so many notices that are wrong, autogenerated. Clients are panicked and confused and it just takes an epic amount of effort to get it resolved.
Stuart 00:32:49.977 To resolve, yeah, in any kind of satisfactory solution. Yeah. I mean, I think generally, the authorities stay out of the way in America, but when they do get involved, you're on this shocking treadmill of bureaucracy, which is horrific. In Australia, having been out of it for a while and sort of looking back, I think a lot of them want to be in your business. And same in the UK. You've got to lodge your payroll now every pay run with the authorities so that they know exactly your expenditure. They pretty much know your tax return by the end of the year, and so they can-- further monitoring in theory leads to less, well, fraud or at least creative accounting, right? I don't know if it's true. I mean, I guess probably it is, but.
Susan 00:33:39.780 Yeah. I think that's interesting. I think it's this culture in accounting, and maybe even tax and even in authorities it's like-- I mean, we just got to reimagine. There's got to be a better way, right?
Stuart 00:33:52.932 You can't use that word of the IRS. [laughter] There's not many imaginations there. I don't think. [laughter]
Susan 00:33:59.967 That might be asking a little too much. [laughter]
Stuart 00:34:03.060 For a Wednesday morning, Susan, I think we might be getting ahead of ourselves. [laughter]
Susan 00:34:07.983 Oh. I blame Lady Gaga concert.
Stuart 00:34:09.666 Oh, good, good.
Susan 00:34:10.403 Yeah, [crosstalk]. [laughter]
Stuart 00:34:10.597 Yeah, no, she'd shake up the IRS. That's for sure. [laughter]
Susan 00:34:14.315 That's right.
Stuart 00:34:15.327 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm sure when she comes anywhere near Nevada that our 12 year old and particular, 10 year old would love to get along to that show. So I'll look at the dates. But we've come to time, Susan. But I greatly appreciate your input and all your efforts for the industry. Congratulations on all your success so far with MB Group. I think it's fantastic what you do for your clients and the culture that you've created there. And if there's anything that we can ever do to help, please don't hesitate.
Susan 00:34:47.440 Oh, well, thank you so much. I really appreciate. It was great chatting with you today. And thanks again for having me on the show.
Stuart 00:34:52.967 Of course, Susan. Thank you. Have a great day. [music] Thanks for listening to this episode. If you found this discussion interesting, fun, you'll find lots more to help you run a successful accounting firm at Karbon Magazine. There are more than 1000 free resources there, including guides, articles, templates, webinars, and more. Just head to karbonhq.com/resources. [music] I'd also love it if you could leave us a five star review wherever you listen to this podcast. Let us know you like this session. We'll be able to keep bringing you more guests for you to learn from and get inspired by. Thanks for joining and see you on the next episode of the Accounting Leaders podcast.