WHY Your Math Curriculum Isn’t Working

If you’ve ever wondered why your students still don’t “get” math—even with all the new textbooks, intervention programs, small groups, apps, and training—this episode will change everything.

In today’s conversation, Cheri and Jonily pull back the curtain on the brutal truth:

👉 The problem isn’t your students.
 The problem isn’t you.
 The problem is the system.

Math scores across the U.S. have crashed to historic lows. Tier 2 and Tier 3 groups are overflowing. Teachers are exhausted. Kids are frustrated. And the curriculum you were handed is not built to fix any of it.

Inside this episode, you’ll learn:
🔸 The REAL reason your math curriculum keeps failing
 🔸 Why “teaching harder” never moves the needle
 🔸 How mental load, attention spans, and dopamine shape learning
 🔸 Why rhythm, novelty, and movement unlock mathematical thinking
 🔸 How lockers, rectangles, and pizzas explain EVERYTHING about math success
 🔸 The shocking data from real classrooms (54% → 84%, 27% → 60%, and more)
 🔸 Why 3rd graders can learn so much more than we think
 🔸 What schools must change NOW to reverse the decline

This isn’t another “curriculum review.”
 This is the root cause of the math crisis in America—and the brain-based pathway out of it.

If you’ve ever sat in your classroom thinking,
 “Why aren’t they getting it? What am I missing?”
 …this episode will finally give you the answer.

👉 Want to experience the full workshop?
 You can sign up to experience one workshop for just $47. The link is here.
https://disabilitylabs.com/live-webinar/mastery-math-method-dec2025/register

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 – Welcome to Tier One Interventions Podcast

00:28 – Why today’s session starts at a higher math level

01:00 – Why Tier 1—not Tier 3—is the real issue

02:00 – The rising crisis of U.S. math scores

03:10 – Why kids “don’t get math” (and it’s not aptitude)

04:05 – Why Tier 2 and Tier 3 are overloaded

05:00 – What Tier One Interventions actually solve

06:20 – Evidence from real classrooms: 54% → 84%, 27% → 60%, and more

07:45 – Second graders eliminating all “red/yellow” scores in 6 weeks

09:15 – Why this workshop series matters

10:05 – Connecting Mastery Math Method to today’s episode

11:00 – Lockers, Rectangles, Pizzas… and why it works

11:30 – Using music and rhythm to re-trigger attention

12:20 – The neuroscience of rhythm-based learning

13:00 – Crossing midline, movement, rhythm, and subconscious learning

14:10 – How 14-year-olds signal when their brains need novelty

15:00 – Lighting, environmental shifts, and novelty triggers

16:00 – The attention-span research that guides your timing

16:55 – Episode wrap-up + teaser for next week

17:10 – CTA: Experience one workshop for $47

🎯 Ready to Change Math Outcomes in 10 Days?

👉 Join our FREE Masterclass for school leaders, teachers, and OTs:
 https://disabilitylabs.com/calendar

🎧 Prefer to Listen On the Go?

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🔗 Stay Connected

🌐 Website: https://disabilitylabs.com/courses/mastery-math-bundle
📧 Disability Labs Community: https://disabilitylabs.com/community/3d-learning-lounge-1

🎙️ Credits:
Host: Cheri Dotterer
Co-Host: Jonily Zupancic
Production: Disability Labs Podcast Network

🧠 Resources Mentioned:

Mastery Math Method Level One (Lifetime Access): https://disabilitylabs.com/courses/mastery-math-bundle
Mastery Math Method Level Two (Annual Subscription): https://disabilitylabs.com/courses/mastery-math-method-group-coaching

⚠️ Disclaimer: The content shared in this video is for educational purposes only and does not replace your district’s policies or individualized education plans. Always consult with your instructional team before implementing new strategies.

🏷️ Hashtags

#MathIsMessy #Tier1Interventions #MasteryMathMethod #BrainBasedLearning #REWIREMethod #OTinSchools #TeacherMindset

Creators and Guests

Host

Cheri Dotterer

Hacking barriers to writing success, dysgraphia No ✏️ Required. 30-sec@time Speaker | Podcast Host | Author | Consultanthttps://t.co/eM1CXSUIoZ

Host

Jonily Zupancic

Middle School Math Instructional Coach

What is Tier 1 Interventions?

Math intervention, writing intervention, neurobiology, and cognitive-based learning - Jonily Zupancic and Cheri Dotterer are sharing how to incorporate them into your classroom. Jonily is a secondary math teacher and instructional coach for math K-12. Cheri is an occupational therapist specializing in neurology-based treatment across the lifespan and a Strategy-based Interventionist. Jonily secretly calls Cheri her Lesson Plan Whisperer because Cheri is always in her head, reminding her of the foundations of development before academics begin.

They met in 2018 and have been talking ever since. Together, they have discovered the Miracle Math Classroom. This classroom embeds all math standards from Kindergarten to twelfth grade, plus neuro-based interventions that improve proficiency and boost student engagement. Both gifted and learning support students thrive using the interventions they share, plus all students in between. Using cognitive enhancing techniques strategically placed in the lesson plan, students learn more and enjoy school more, and fewer students get removed from critical instruction for Tier Three Interventions.

Jonily has discovered how to teach all Kindergarten through algebra math standards using twelve, that’s right, twelve Reference Tasks. They include the Pizza Problem, 120-Chart, Paper Folding, Making Rectangles, Quick Dots, Locker Problem, Jesse and Kay, Geoboard, Candy Problem, Paint Problem, Staircase, and the Function Machine.

Cheri uses Body-Brain Anchors to ignite the flame inside everyone’s brain for learning. Whether a person is five or 90, her strategy-based interventions will ignite that flame. These Brain-Body Anchors include the Handstand Flip, Interlaced Bilateral Integration, and the Body Sentence Alphabet.

Together, they connect the puzzle behind math instruction and instructional delivery alongside these cognitive-enhancing activities to maximize math education for all students.

Join us live on the third Saturday of the month, sans July, for the math behind the Reference Task. Every live event is approximately 2.5 contact hours. The first 30-ish minutes become this podcast. To hear the entire training, join our membership program.

Please note: we will not record on holiday weekends. Join our mailing list for updates on dates.

To join us live, register at Tier1interventions.com. The 2.5-hour sessions include the PowerPoint slides, additional audio files of Jonily teaching the Reference Task, resources from Cheri, and much more. A subscription to these 2.5-hour Workshops is $97/month or $947/year.

Membership includes:
*Approximately 27.5 hours of direct training per year
*Audio files of Jonily's Hear Me Teach segments - complete
*PowerPoint Slides to grab and use in your Magic Math Classroom
*Resources from Jonily and Cheri for you and your students
*A copy of Math DYSconnected when released.

Or, you can listen to the first segment on your favorite podcast app for free; no membership is required. No matter how you listen, you will come away with golden nuggets that will transform your classroom.

Reach out to Jonily: [e-mail]
Reach out to Cheri: [e-mail]

Tier1Interventions.com

. Hey everybody and welcome to Tier One
Interventions podcast, where we look

at your core classroom and we try to
maximize your gifts and help you reach

every student with their math, with their
writing, and with their reading skills.

But we concentrate mostly on math here
at Tier One Interventions podcast.

And our math leader, miss Jonily, is
ready to share some gold nuggets today.

Welcome to the podcast Jonily, and
they are gold nuggets because these

last few weeks have been a whirlwind.

I'm gonna kinda take us back a little
bit, and there's another community that

I teach called a Math teacher Mastermind,
and I'm going to launch our session today.

I didn't erase the notes on purpose
because I'm gonna make some of those

connections to our tier one interventions,
and I do have to say that this is

tier one interventions level two.

So we come out of the gate with
the mathematics and a pretty

high level of mathematics.

So if you're listening to this recording
and you're thinking, okay, that came

on strong, I teach third graders.

You need to just go back and listen
to other podcasts or tier one

interventions, level one because you'll
get the pieces that will help third

graders understand this level up.

Because what I'm going to teach you
today is for third graders and beyond.

It is for third graders and beyond.

It's going to look at first glance
like it's for secondary students, but

it is for third graders and beyond.

Now I have to say this 'cause I've
been on a rant in the last few weeks.

NAP scores national achievement scores.

Math is awful.

It is dismal, it is terrible.

I'm gonna speak for the
United States for a moment.

Our country is falling very
short mathematically, and

that is not my opinion.

That is shown in data.

And oftentimes if I don't agree with
the data, if I'm like, okay, yeah, but

this, or, yeah, but that, I'll tell you.

But I agree with the data because
I'm in classrooms all over the

place and the kids don't know.

They don't know.

And that is a system problem.

That is a tier one problem.

See that is not an intervention problem.

That is not a tier two, tier three.

We need more support.

Tier two and tier three is overpopulated
in mathematics in our schools.

So not even some random test
company, if you wanna say that.

Even though they've
been around for a while.

And I believe that NA is very credible.

The sample populations they use, I
think are very selective, very good.

And I'm pretty skeptical on
data, but I back that up.

But even in schools, even in your local
schools, if you go to like dozens of local

schools, one of the biggest complaints
is our kids don't get mathematics.

So we're saying it in the schools also.

So ultimately we are agreeing
and we're saying our school,

our kids don't get mathematics.

And we have, we don't have
enough personnel to serve tier

two and tier three intervention.

Now, we're, some of you are probably
gonna kick yourselves if you're

listening to this, that you've
said that in the past few weeks.

Because what I'm going to say is,
if that's the problem, it's a tier

one core general classroom problem.

And I'm gonna tell you first
and foremost, this comes back

to the math classroom teacher

does the math.

Classroom teacher need supports.

Absolutely supports like Sherry and
Theresa and Beth, occupational therapists,

special service areas, intervention
specialists, instructional coaches,

all of us need tier one interventions.

All of us, whether you're the regular
math classroom teacher or not,

principals, assistant principals,
curriculum directors, hear me loud.

If you are a curriculum director,
assistant superintendent of a school

district, perk up now if you're
listening to this, because you all

are the ones that create the climate,
culture, and flavor for your school.

And I'm telling you right now, if you
want to completely reverse math deficits,

you've got to get everyone who works
with math students in your building to

take the tier one interventions course.

The reason is, it's the answer to the
biggest problem that we've ever had.

Oh, do I dare say the biggest problem
that we've ever had in education?

I'm gonna say it because I think
we've made a lot of gains in literacy.

We've made a lot of gains in reading.

We've made a lot of gains in literacy.

There are lots of solutions for literacy.

Are we where we wanna be?

No.

I don't think we'll ever
be where we wanna be.

That's not the point.

But we've made a ton of gains and
we've we have a lot of options and

solutions for literacy in mathematics.

We are still running the hamster wheel.

We're trading one bad product for another.

A, a new company or an old company
will create a new math textbook.

And this is the answer,
and it's not the answer.

I'm telling you right now the answer
to filling gaps, because we have

exposed some really extreme data
on scaling math achievement with

what we're talking about here.

And it is tier one interventions.

The bigger umbrella name
is Math Mastery Method.

We need mastery with our students.

Now, I'm gonna say this all because this
has been part of my journey this year.

If any of you don't know, I have
not been teacher of record for a

group of kids for about 14 years.

I have been on tour.

For lack of a better phrase, in lots of
schools, school districts, classroom.

I've been working with hundreds of
teachers and thousands of students

over the past 14 years to figure out
what is the real issue by actually

getting into the trenches, getting
into actual teachers classrooms, and

listening to teachers, and listening to
students, listening to school leaders,

principals and curriculum directors.

So for the past 14
years, I have done that.

And then I have run some experiments,
some action research projects that have

taken passing rates of math assessments,
specifically in fourth grade, from 54%

to 84% in two years and in sixth grade,
taking kids who were a select group of

very at-risk kids from 27% passing to 60%
passing with 92% showing growth, taking

a group of second graders that don't have
a state assessment, but using whatever

the standardized assessment is or using
whatever the math assessment type is.

When I say math assessment type
and math I, I say this lightly math

intervention type things like maps, Alex.

Star.

There are many others that actually
continue to monitor students' growth

because these are special ability not
testing companies, but special ability

math progress monitoring programs that
will help us gauge whether students are

the lowest in red or yellow, the next
lowest or blue or green, the highest.

The colors don't matter.

Usually there's like a color
system in whatever you use,

telling you where your kids are.

But another one of our outstanding data
pieces is a group of second graders after

going through the mastery math method
for about six weeks from the beginning

of the school year with what we're
teaching through tier one interventions

when they first took their STAR
assessment, which don't worry

about, it doesn't have to be star.

I'm not selling star, I'm
not connected to star.

It's just one, one.

It's the assessment they
used at the beginning.

All of the second graders took it
and ended up with likely results.

Some red, some yellow, some blue,
some green, like all over the place.

Very typical results.

After six weeks of tier one interventions,
math mastery method, we had no kids.

Once they took their next
level in the program, we had

no kids at red or yellow, none.

Six weeks, second grade.

So what we're saying is by using the
math mastery method, you're going to

eliminate and really almost get all
your kids to the 40th or 50th percentile

level, which 50th percentile is average.

So I share that and I want that out there
because this first part that of our tier

one interventions, the group that is
listening live right now is level two.

But this first part is gonna be
made public up to a certain point.

And I want you to hear some of
the things that we have done

that are outstanding and scaling.

And as you listen to this, reach
out because we are making math

happen and in really beautiful ways.

So if I back up and I talk about tier
one interventions, the Dismal Math

scores, the Math Mastery Method, the
Math Mastery Method level two, I'll go

back to what I said before, my rant,
and that is I've left up these notes

from our math teacher Mastermind, which
is a different group, different cohort,

because I'm gonna start off there and
make connections to our content today.

Our content today is a
part two of level two.

So last time we met as a group, we talked
about lockers, rectangles, and pizzas.

We only got to the locker piece,
but it was very extensive.

It was very detailed, and it
was very specific and explicit.

So I'm gonna circle back to
locker after I start these notes.

And then we're going
to connect the lockers.

Pizzas, rectangles.

Oh, my locker's, pizzas.

Rectangles.

Oh, my locker's, pizzas, rectangles.

Oh, mine.

Luck's.

Pizzas, rectangles.

Oh, mine.

That's not a real song, but it is now.

Okay,

now notice what I just did there.

Notice what I just did.

I went on this whole rant,
explanation, supporting with data.

I did a whole thing w wa.

And to re-trigger our
brains, I broke out in song.

I don't want you to miss that.

'cause if you zoned out and all
of a sudden I'm like, luck's,

pizzas, rectangles on my, you're
like, what is happening right now?

What is she doing?

I don't understand.

But see, do you see how we reconnect?

And I want you to think about
this as far as math instruction.

What are we doing in our classrooms?

Go ahead, Sherry, I'm gonna
interrupt you right there.

That rhythm music is.

One of those triggers that
goes even before visual and

auditory learning happens.

It is much more foundational.

What is one of the first things
that happens in the womb?

They start to be able to hear
and they feel the movement.

Mo music goes into your
soul, into your bones.

That's why music is so
crucial to learning.

I feel sorry for high school students
who never crack ATO because they're not

getting their learning into their bones.

So I believe that Natalie was earlier
before we ever started recording, was

talking about doing exercises with the
kids where we're crossing midline and

we're doing all kinds of fun activities.

You probably had a rhythm with it,
which is gonna take it right to the

bones and it's gonna get to that
core of that subconscious learning.

It's gonna break through that barrier,
and when you have subconscious

learning, you're going to learn it.

It's when we get there that we can learn.

Beautifully said, boom.

I have so much to say about that because
two things, one, after 14 years of

not being teacher of record, this year
I've jumped back in and I am teacher of

record for three high school classes.

Two Algebra two, and an algebra one.

My algebra one students say to me now
every day, and I want you to take this

as you will, my algebra one students
every day, and they don't say it when

they walk in, catch this about 14
minutes into the lesson, they will

randomly, someone will randomly say,
oh, what's the song of the day, Ms.

Hanzi?

Because I don't, because when they first
come in, there's already a novelty.

We have a routine, we have
a warmup, we have a system.

Like they're already triggered.

They're already triggered.

We come in, sometimes the lights
are dim, sometimes they're not.

I go back and forth with lighting
because some kids, honestly.

Don't love the lights dim, so I can
like half dim, I can, I, my actual

fluorescent lights have levels to them.

And then I also have my LED
lights and a couple little lamps.

But I go back and forth with the lighting.

I don't always have it the same.

It's different because different
kids need different things and we all

need to adjust to, if I walk into a
room and the lighting isn't right I

still have to force myself to learn.

We can't always just
cater and accommodate.

We have to make sure we teach kids
how to self accommodate as well.

So my lighting's always diff
always different, but we already

have routine warm, like they get
their folders, they get started.

This is high school.

Like they are very independent.

And so usually about 14 to 16
minutes in now hear this, and this

is so funny that this has been
happening in Algebra one over the

last week, about 14 to 16 minutes in.

Think about what the ages are of
kids that are taking high school.

Algebra one.

They're ninth graders.

They're about 14, 15 years old.

Research has shown, and I'm not sure I
have the direct research study on this.

Like people say it all the time and
I use this research, but I'm not sure

I have the direct quote to the study.

So if somebody does put that into school,
if you could, our comments in school.

But research shows that our attention
on one thing, unless we are in flow

unless we are like really in the
zone, our attention to attend to

one thing is for kids up through
our twenties is about our age level.

“Alright friends, that wraps today’s
conversation on attention spans,

dopamine hits, and why our kids need
novelty and rhythm woven into math.

Next week, we’re going deeper into
nonlinear thinking—how switching tasks,

breaking patterns, and mixing contexts
can actually grow a child’s executive

functioning and mathematical reasoning.

You’re not gonna want to miss this one…
it’s where the magic starts to click.

And hey—if you’re loving this and
want to get the full workshop where

we go step-by-step into Mastery
Math Method, you can sign up to

experience one workshop for just $47.

The link is waiting for you.”