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This is a podcast for anyone feeling stretched thin by work, activism, caregiving, or just surviving under systems that weren’t built for our thriving. On Balm in the Burnout, we speak with artists, organizers, and community builders about what’s helping us stay grounded and resourced in the face of burnout. Together, we reclaim our right to soothe, heal, and make hopeful, sustainable action.
BITB - Jason Sole
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[00:00:00]
Megan Hadley: All right. I'm here today with Jason Sole. Jason is an abolitionist first. He's also a community leader, a family man, an entrepreneur, and a professor at Hamline University here in Minnesota. He is a formerly incarcerated individual now with a PhD and 12 plus years under his belt as a criminal justice educator.
He is a co-founder of the Humanized My Hoodie Movement that not only sells incredible street wear for bipoc fam and allies, but also challenges the perception of black folks being a threat, offering learning and artistic events to build community, allyship and solidarity. So I'm so stoked to have you on [00:01:00] today, Jason.
Thank you for being here.
Jason Sole: I appreciate it.
Megan Hadley: Yeah. Oh my goodness. So I would love to hear just a moment recently when you felt really present in your life.
Jason Sole: Um, you know, it's a constant thing for me. You know, like most people will tell. That's like part of my reputation. People will tell you I'm very present. So me, I'm not doing a gazillion things at once. I multitask just like anybody else. You know, I'm not one dimensional, but at the same time. I focus on peace more than money.
I focus on family more than material things. So I think my priorities are pretty solid. You know, like no matter what I'm doing, my daughters know they can hit me at any moment, other people. So it's like though I'm right here with you, my phone is face up. So it's like I can still acknowledge, but I'm not gonna take away from the presence that I need to.
Uh. You know, to be here and to do this podcast with you. So I'm a [00:02:00] pretty present person, you know what I mean? Like most of the time when I'm calendaring and doing that stuff, I take it serious and most people just be like, back to back meetings and this and that and that. And I've been like that and I know how it is and sometimes it, it has to be like that.
But I like to pump the brakes a little bit and sometimes. Starting my meetings at 10 o'clock instead of nine o'clock can give a little bit more grace so that I can be present. Otherwise, I'm rushing from dropping my kids off and then running into something, probably sweating and all of that. And it's not my best presentation, but, uh, my heart and my spirit and my energy is always right no matter what the work is that I'm doing.
So I, I experience it every day. So, to answer your question, like I'm, I'm a pretty present person, you know what I mean?
Megan Hadley: That's so beautiful and I think just the opportunity and permission to have more space in your time. Give yourself that grace. Be a human, not be a robot.
Jason Sole: For sure, for sure. Absolutely. Because that's what [00:03:00] society tells you to become, like go, go, go. Can't take a a second to breathe. Just keep on going. And I fight against that at all costs because there were years where it was like. I don't know. I felt like a workaholic. And it's like I grind, like I put in more hours in a day than most people just because I get work done. Even when I'm standing in line at the uh, checkout counter, I be knocking out emails and stuff. I ain't standing there just looking around, you know what I mean? I'm standing there not, I'll be like, dad, can I get through two emails? 'cause I don't really have to be present when I'm waiting in a, a line at the checkout, I could just be like, let me get through two emails. And it relieves a lot of the stress. So I think presence is important for all of us,
Megan Hadley: Definitely and finding your own version of presence, like you said, you know, you don't have to be present waiting in a line. You can get something off your plate and have more time with family later. I think that's really important.
Jason Sole: Definitely.
Megan Hadley: [00:04:00] So I'd love to talk about health and wellbeing. You know, the name of my business is Harvest Health and Wellbeing and as a Health Coach, you know, um, working with people all the time on just what does it mean to be healthy, what does wellbeing mean to you?
So what are your thoughts on your frame on health and wellbeing in your life?
Jason Sole: It's critical. You know, like they say, when you are on an airplane, you got to get your oxygen first. You know what I mean? Like people be out here trying to do the most and put on airs and live up to stuff. don't have a gimmick. I don't got no image that I'm trying to uphold. You know what I mean? So I think that allows me to be healthy.
'cause I don't have to go outside and to turn on to a different person. Like people know who I am. I wear my heart on my sleeves. I'm the most helping person. My block love me, hamline. And it's because like, I know the main reason why we on this earth is to love each other. So if I keep that as my focus, like I'm not here to be beefing with nobody or arguing with people.
I do sometimes just because [00:05:00] that's what they like to do and that's their mode of communication. But most people know I'm pretty chill in my day to day and I just got a, uh, a presence that allows me to know that things are gonna be okay even during my harshest moments. And, you know, I'm fighting for a, for clemency right now with Governor Walz.
I ain't really, I ain't gonna say I'm fighting with him right now, but it could heat up. To something like that. But even if I take a loss in that, it's not going to devastate me to where it's like I'm overworking my heart or I am, uh, taking it out on my partner or angry at my kids. I, I don't, I don't do that.
So for me it's like, health is everything. Like they say health is wealth. Like I truly believe that. So I walk a lot, you know, I have walking meetings, so when people say Let's go walk, I be like, I don't really need any latte with milk or nothing like that, let's walk. You know what I mean? So I just think health is what I prioritize.
So even before I do events, I just ask people to take a couple breaths. [00:06:00] I'd be like, y'all willing to take some community deep breaths together? And I do it with 'em. I do the breathing good. Do we need a couple more? People might say, yeah, lemme get a couple more breaths in and then we do it. So I think health requires us to slow things down. We rush too much. So it's like when I go to the doctor and I go to the doctor, even if I feel something like my allergies are killing me like right now. So you might hear, you might hear it and I was like, if this don't clear about Sunday, 'cause this been like three days where I ain't never had allergies hit me like this.
And I know it's the season and all of that, but still. So I'm not like other men in that respect. If I, if I hit my knee on this thing and it hurt more than a day. I'm going to the doctor, so I'm just not like, like so last, well, yeah, that was about three weeks ago. I had to do a colonoscopy and a lot of men, we like just the homophobia of it all.
Like, man, I'm not [00:07:00] letting them stick nothing in me like that. It's, it is a thing amongst men. We don't talk about it. It is, it is whack and it's all rooted in homophobia. It really is.
Megan Hadley: Hmm.
Jason Sole: But I made it public. I'm getting a colonoscopy. I'm like, man, I'm 46. They say at 45, you gotta get it. I'm trying to be here a while, even though I don't want to drink that stuff.
And I didn't want to, man. I was like, man, I should cancel this like this. That mixture is just terrible. Like if you know somebody who's had it, I'm like, but I did it. I don't like being sedated. I never do that. When I go to the dentist, I want to be awake. I just don't like somebody playing. They're not playing.
But I. You know, I've been shot. So it's like if you looking at my body and then you looking at my tattoos, you might, I don't know. I don't know what you think of me, so I don't wanna be asleep in your care. So that's a real fear for me. But I overcame it and I was like, I gotta get this. I just need to know.
And um, same thing with the dentist. I went to the dentist three, look three times last month. Let them [00:08:00] drill all in my, I'm like, really? I'm like, trying to keep every tooth though. So I keep telling, I always tell the dentist I got all of them. I want to keep all of them. So even though I like watching basketball, playing with my kids, doing all the day to day stuff, like I do prioritize my health.
I stretch every day. Like when people invite me over they house, it ain't weird no more. But like when people invite me over, when I get to they house, when I sit down, I always ask like, you bad if I stretch right here? And they be like, what? I be like, man, let me just, 'cause I'm tall. So it's like I want to stay. I wanna stay flexible. I know people my age, they can't stretch at all. They can't, they not limber. I'm still limber to where I can jump, spin, play basketball, ba I want to keep that, you know what I mean? So I think health, I prioritize it. I, my little brother, he does, he prioritizes it more like he's in a gym, he's sitting in a sauna. He wear like compression socks, all it. [00:09:00] He's way more on it than me. But, you know, we know health is well. So it's a daily practice. For sure.
Megan Hadley: Yeah. And I just love those examples in your real life of what it looks like to do those things. Right. Walking meetings, um. Maybe not necessarily saying no to the latte or maybe saying no to the latte, like a latte can be good. Um, but yeah, just. Building that culture of, of movement and, hey, I'm gonna come over, I'm gonna stretch my body right now.
That's what my body needs. Right? Having that self-awareness and, and making it a priority, and you build that into relationships instead of saying like, oh, it's gonna be a conflict. Like, no, this is who I am and this is what I bring. The other thing that I heard. That I think is really important to touch on is just that sense of modeling and psychological safety, right?
Like you. You, I mean, in my mind, you're like a very important community leader, right? I [00:10:00] mean, there are so many people that likely look up to you and how you model that sense of wellbeing. So your capacity to, to do those events and say, let's start with breathing, you know, your capacity to say like, Hey, truth, I'm getting a colonoscopy and here's what that looks like and happens to be rooted in this system of oppression called homophobia.
And like what can we do about that? Right. So you're, you're really starting the conver not starting, but you know, making sure there is conversation about these systems that may be coming into oppress when we might not be recognizing it and just saying like, Hey, I have my own psychological safety, my own things happening, and still my health is important and here's what that's gonna look like for me today.
So that just sounds really powerful.
Jason Sole: I mean, people don't like walking with me. They say I walk too fast. my daughter was like, you walking way too fast. I'm like, I'm on a mission man. We walking, but come on, let's get some steps in. So people be wanting to walk a little slower. So I do [00:11:00] got some work to do. I'll just say that Megan, I got, I gotta slow down on a. For real. My daughter was like, wait, she just grabbed my arm yesterday, like, we ain't walking together. You ahead of me. I'm like, yeah, I gotta, I gotta calm it down. So I still got some work to do there for sure.
Megan Hadley: Yeah, you like to get the heartbeat up and sometimes people like to walk leisurely. That's kind of how I bike honestly. Like so many people love to bike fast and like reach a certain mile per hour, and I'm just like, can I just look at the trees on this block? I love the trees on this block.
Jason Sole: I feel that that works too, though. That works too.
Megan Hadley: Yeah.
Jason Sole: I say, I gotta work on it to slow it down a little bit. So I'm, I'm, I'm cognizant.
Megan Hadley: Yeah, and sounds like your daughters are keeping you, keeping you in check and pulling you along what they want and what they need.
Jason Sole: Yeah, they amazing. Like, I mean, my daughter just turned 18 last week and it's like, wow. You
Megan Hadley: Mm-hmm.
Jason Sole: waited in life, you know, I had my daughter when I was 29, so I wasn't a young parent, you know, I mean, it's still young, but I wasn't like early twenties or whatever. So I had [00:12:00] already, I was poised for parenthood.
Megan Hadley: Mm-hmm.
Jason Sole: to see my oldest be 18 and going to college in Atlanta in the fall, well, in a couple months she leaving. So it's like.
Megan Hadley: Wow.
Jason Sole: probably hear her come in here, but, uh, like, man, I get to grow with her. She's about fourth classes short of an associate's degree and she's only, she just turned 18. So
Megan Hadley: Wow.
Jason Sole: I'm proud.
And she's the manager at the Mall of America. So if you go to Bo Bath and Body Works, my baby will be in there.
Megan Hadley: Love that. Mm-hmm.
Jason Sole: like, you're not gonna find a better father. You might find somebody who doing it well, who's present, who's, I haven't missed anything. I, I might have missed one. appointment for my, uh, oldest. I've been at [00:13:00] every event, every P parent, teacher conference, everything. So it's like, that's what gives me peace too, knowing I didn't slack as a father, you know what I mean? Because I didn't have my father in my life. He was, you know, on drugs for most of my life. So it was like he was in and out a lot, and heroin is really powerful.
So I just use the stuff I've been through to say. I'm gonna try to do it different and break a cycle. And you know, and I could see that in my babies and it's like they well loved down here. I be going places like, man, your daughter. They be like, yo daughter is. I'll be like, man, I'm just proud. You know? So I just keep the ego in check and just say, keep being amazed and don't let it go to your head,
Megan Hadley: Mm-hmm.
Jason Sole: and try to figure out how to give the flowers back. So whenever I get a compliment, I'm always trying to think can I give it to my mom? Or say My wife is amazing, or My kids keep me in check. 'cause otherwise the ego will get too big. So I, I'm just glad that my kids, they keep me in check and they choose their own path. They not about to be criminal justice professors or organizers, [00:14:00] or they not gonna be that they going, uh, my oldest going into nursing.
So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm proud of the ground that we've laid and it's just sad. It's a level of grief there. My baby ain't never lived nowhere else, you
Megan Hadley: Mm-hmm.
Jason Sole: Like, Yesterday was her first night really staying out overnight. Took a go bag with her friends yesterday. Yesterday she bought the travel bag yesterday or the overnight bag.
That's what she called her. She brought, she bought it yesterday with her prom dress. And you know, she went to her friend house who's a safe person and you know, she about to come in and then run out. So. I think my health is good because it's like I got people around me who keep me in check, like I don't have any Yes, people around me.
I wouldn't have it any other way though, and I got a lot of tourists around me. If you are into astrology,
Megan Hadley: I So am I saw that when we were planning for this. I was like, I wanna talk about this Taurus energy, but I also wanna know your chart. So.
Jason Sole: my mother, my mother's a Taurus, my sister's a Taurus, [00:15:00] oldest is a Taurus, so I'm around women who. Definitely don't let me get away with nothing and I wouldn't have it no other way though, you know.
Megan Hadley: Definitely. Yeah. Just that strength. And you're talking about breaking cycles and just really being present in that and being proud of it, but also, like you said, kind of checking the ego. And what I hear too is that capacity to zoom out beyond yourself and really see your own success also as this collective success.
Yeah.
Jason Sole: Like it's people who gave me grace when I was younger. It was teachers in high school, my French teacher, 'cause I smoked weed in high school. And of course they act. Acting like that was the worst drug in the world. They were like, you going to hell for that drug? And I'm like, yo, it ain't even, I'm performing.
I'm performing on a basketball court. I'm performing in French class. I never failed a class in high school, but I was always on the fringes. 'cause like I got a pistol in the car. I was always in the stuff. You know, people knew [00:16:00] that about me at a young age, but my French teacher loved me and she showed it and she showed it didn't matter. No other things in my life. And even when I took falls. always wrote me or said something encouraging. So it's like I don't forget stuff like that. I'm not somebody who's just gonna let that be, like, I might forget something, but it's rare that I forget a act of kindness that was thrown my way. I don't, I don't really play like, and my mom didn't raise me like that either.
So I'm very like tune with the fact that, yeah, somebody might be giving me a compliment, but if one or two things were off. Like the night I got shot up, I was 20 years old. And if you see the vehicle, you will understand something else definitely intervened. I don't know if it's God, Universe, I don't, I don't know, ancestors, my old friends who passed away, I don't know.
But if you look at that car, you'll know I shouldn't have made it out alive. So why would I be big on [00:17:00] myself at any point? I, I would never be like that. Like I will never, 'cause I know some people are doing some things. My mom been a prayer warrior since I've been like 14. She say, I brought her to the Lord and that's her story.
She say, just 'cause I was so, a lot as a kid, even in kindergarten. So. To be able to say No, I'm giving my mom her flowers now. I just sent her on a cruise for her birthday last week. I still pour into it. I'm gonna be with her on Sunday for Mother's Day. You know, I gotta balance it out, but I'm gonna see her and my sister, you know?
So my sister don't know that. So hopefully this comes out after. After
Megan Hadley: It will. It's coming out later.
Jason Sole: Yeah, it's a surprise. So to be able to still be present enough to say, I love my big sister, I be at the surprise party. mom, she already know, like I'm staying in tune every week I call and we stay connected. Those are the things that pour into my health. So if somebody gives me a compliment, probably compliment me for something that my French teacher gave to me or something my daughter gave to me. So I never [00:18:00] look at it like, yeah, I'm, I'm the one, I'm the, no, I move like that. I'm a team player and if I play my role, well the whole ecosystem would be fine.
Good? All right. Yeah,
Megan Hadley: There she is, huh? Yeah.
Jason Sole: yeah, yeah, yeah. That's my, that's my, my kid. Yeah.
Megan Hadley: Happy belated birthday.
Jason Sole: Uh, she said thanks. I don't know if you can hear her. She
Megan Hadley: Yeah. So sweet. Um, well this is a really good segue. You know, you, uh, I love the question about just like, who knows why I made it through this, you know, shooting, but really. What do you feel is your work here on this planet at this time?
Jason Sole: Just to be a good servant.
Megan Hadley: Mm-hmm.
Jason Sole: Um, I've been blessed to be in community with like some amazing comrades. Uh, I was able to work with some people, some amazing native folks who brought Leonard Pal tear home. was [00:19:00] incarcerated 48 years. So to be able to help with that and then to be with him when he got released was a, was just a amazing experience.
I never seen somebody come home from incarceration like that. I mean, were there at the tar back. They, they were there in caravan. It was, they gave him a blanket. They welcomed him. Ah. It was just an honor to be a fly on the wall. Uh, same thing with Rep. I run an org called Rep. Well, we are a project. I wouldn't call us a org, but it's called Relationships Evolving Possibilities.
And that's my abolitionist work where you could call us tonight or tomorrow. It's always Friday and Saturday you call us, we, your responders. You don't, you shouldn't call the police because nobody's gonna get harmed. We trained, everybody. We sit out is solid. And we're funded, so we don't have to do galas or do any of those things.
I'm pretty much a laid back person. I don't really like, uh, I have to turn on to a different person when I'm at a gala and I gotta, uh, do [00:20:00] things that I really, that's kinda outta my comfort zone, you know what I mean? Like, so for me, I always know, like if I'm gonna come to something that's gonna require me to exert a lot of extra energy, I tell the people like, I'm only gonna be there like 30, 40 minutes and I'm here 'cause of you. here 'cause you asked me. I'm here to fulfill that. I love you. So I'm coming to it. So I think all my projects like Rep is a 10 year project and our motto is, we just wanna love you to your next step. I. We done trying to get all of your business. We created our own hotline. So we have our own dispatch that we own, and, um, grateful for the foundations that poured into us.
And we don't take any money from the state. That's like one of our main things. People always like, man, would y'all do a training for our staff? Would y'all do this? And it's like, if you with the state in any kinda way, cops, courts or corrections, we just don't really, we can't take no money from you. So I
Megan Hadley: Mm-hmm.
Jason Sole: lead. And I think, uh, that's what I really want people to know right now. I'm a values led person, like, and I don't [00:21:00] want to get outside of that. So I've had doses of fame I don't really like it.
Megan Hadley: Mm-hmm.
Jason Sole: I, I don't like strangers walking up to me like, yo, I read that article I read. That's not something I need to be fulfilled. I probably learned that during the pandemic, probably. I don't, I don't know. I can't really say, but. I hug everybody. I'm a hugger. I always get consent first, though, you know, I'm not one, just go you, you know, come in on you like that. But my mom is like that, you know, my siblings are like that. So it's like a thing.
And um, I just always try to be, like we talked about with the first question. I always try to be present because I don't want to offend nobody. I don't wanna leave here. And you be like, man, this dude is a jerk. Or always like, I wanna leave people. 'cause Maya Angelou said it best like. People will forget what you told them or forget what you said, but they never forget how you made them feel. I never let that lesson go. So I just try to [00:22:00] walk with that intentionality and not say something stupid or give a backhanded compliment. so I just really try to model that more than anything, and that's why all my former students rock with me. That's why I get so many letters is. Love online because I'm really trying to be a good person.
Like that's like my intent. Yeah, I wanna make some money and be able to take care of my family, but it never will supersede what I feel like I'm here for. So that's really my purpose. I think I'm supposed to be a good role player in a lot of different ecosystems, so that's what I feel like. I don't feel like, yeah, people look at me as a leader, but that's not, uh, that's not really how I identify.
Megan Hadley: Mm-hmm.
Jason Sole: know what I mean? Like I really identify as a servant or a good guest. That's kinda how I, uh, approach like the world
Megan Hadley: Mm. That's so beautiful. I'm just soaking that in. You know, tell me what burnout might look to you or how you see [00:23:00] others in the field of activism organizing, getting burned out these days.
Jason Sole: Overcom committing, just, I think we all wanna do everything, and I think it means it's just natural for us to just take on a lot of stuff like, who could do this? I got you. I got you. It's easy to do that. It's very easy to be like and then take on, you look at your sheet, you got 12 things and you when you get home and the energy and the energy that went down, you looking like, can't do none of that.
Like I felt it in the moment, but now that I'm looking at what I committed to, those are the things that cause bur in my eyes like. For me, I don't see myself as burning out. And according to the doctors, that's not, uh, they feel like I could keep this energy for another 46 according to doctors. So for me, that's what I'm, that's what I'm really focused on.
'cause it's like, I know it's a marathon, so if I look at it as a marathon, [00:24:00] have to think I gotta do everything in year one or year three, or it has to lead to this. I'm about saying. What's gonna be happening in my life over the next, when I committed to rep, it was right after George Floyd was killed, and I wasn't gonna lead a bunch of mass protests again.
I, I was done. I had already led a lot of, lot of big ones. I'm talking a lot of people on the highway, a lot of arrests, and it takes so much labor. And I was like, nah, if they didn't learn from Philando Castile, I don't really think they going to understand, and I'm using my professional opinion. So I might say as a professor, a Hamline like, and that's the only reason why I'm a academic, because if I didn't have degrees, people would've really hear me.
Megan Hadley: Mm-hmm.
Jason Sole: what I mean? So that's the only reason I really went to school to get the degrees. I knew I had some intellect, but able to be in that field where people about to be cops or probation officers, that's what really made me say. Oh, I got a purpose here. I can actually stop this person from killing [00:25:00] somebody.
I could actually help this person see it from my perspective and show them my loud music ain't really criminal. I just like loud music. That's just how I'm wired. You know what I mean? I like the bass. I like that. You might see it as offensive. Or I might be at a table with my comrades and we might be a little loud. We not disrespectful people, but to some people that might seem disrespectful. So I'm always in places where I know I'm loved. Like I said, if you ever come wanna go to classics or pimento or places, I ain't know I could be myself in those. It's not a different establishment for me. I go in there, it's like, what's up Tommy?
He the owner. He'll let me get a grove in the back if I need to. So. I go to places where I feel safe and comfortable most of the time, but I'm also willing to get out that comfort zone and go to other people places. But I feel like if you come to my places, they will become your places. 'cause you gonna go there without me, and that's what I really want.
You know what I mean? That's what I really want, where the ecosystem continues to flourish so people [00:26:00] don't be mainly as a good supporter. Yes, I lead my own projects and I'm gonna always get it to the finish line from A to Z, always, whatever I'm working on, I could see it through, I could see all 12 steps and move it. But I think when somebody else has a idea and I can jump in and say, might, if you do this, it might, it might go better. I'm not promising it, but I think it'll work. When people do it, it tends to work better. So I think my role is. To be a good supporter. And I think having that vision allows me to not, uh, be in that burnout type of 'cause.
People will tell you, I've, I'm never close to burnout. Like, it's not even, it's not even close at all for me because cognizant of what I'm signing up for. I'm cognizant when you reached out, it was like, oh yeah, for sure. I could hold that. Let me think first. Oh, and then when you hit me last night, I was like, oh shit, Tim, about it right before the. But I was present enough to say, [00:27:00] oh, I got 15 minutes before Anthony ever started killing, and I, and I sent you the stuff. That's what I do day to day. I might forget something. I might drop a ball, but I'll always try. I always try to deliver, so I think I. If I kept dropping the ball, I think that would lead to burnout for me because I would hold it and be like, dang, thinking about it.
And what'll burn me out. If I make some commitments and I start dropping and falling off and not doing what I said, think I'll burn out pretty quickly. But like I say, I know what I'm saying enough for I know what I'm consenting to and I radically consent to stuff. So I don't just consent, I radically consent, and that means I'm really rocking with you. It ain't just for this project. I really rock with you, so just don't hurt me. And if you do hurt me, we could figure it out. I don't want to throw you away. So I think that that type of approach allows me to be good in a lot of different spaces, and I'm, this don't feel like work to me, so how can I [00:28:00] burn out if it don't, if it,
Megan Hadley: Yep.
Jason Sole: if everything I do doesn't feel like works? I can't, I, I, I don't see burnout on the horizon. So I think just being cognizant, present and being able to, like, we like to say voices for racial justice. I'm on the board of Voices for Racial Justice. I've been there nine years. I'm gonna roll off after my 10th year, but I got the most institutional knowledge, 'cause I've been there the longest on the board.
So I gotta, I gotta make sure they know all the history and all the stuff as I roll off. And it is like for me, I could put something additional on my plate after I let that go. Or I could just sit and say, dang, I don't got the board commitments no more. I hope they doing good and just let it be.
Megan Hadley: Mm-hmm.
Jason Sole: like being cognizant of what I'm putting on my plate and what I'm taking off or when something sunsets and when something is going to start, allows me to be able to say. I'm fully present walking into this, and I'm not about to promise a bunch of stuff that I can't do. So I think that's like my formula [00:29:00] for, uh, avoid burnout.
Megan Hadley: Definitely, it sounds like kind of the anti-people pleasing pattern right around just, and you were just very intentional when I reached out to you about coming on here. You know, you're like, what does that look like? Who are the people, like you said, you know what you're signing up for and then you can really go all in and use that energy, um, in the moment.
And I think that's big. I don't, I. Think people often don't make such intentional choices,
Jason Sole: Yeah,
Megan Hadley: so, you know, I mean, entrepreneurial life is definitely different from nine to five corporate life, but still, like you could easily burn out an entrepreneurial life. But it sounds like, yeah, you're being really cognizant of just what it looks like to add one more thing to your plate and, and balancing that with your other priorities in life.
Jason Sole: Yeah, and I think just being intentional. Oh. I really don't wanna let nobody down. You know
Megan Hadley: Mm-hmm.
Jason Sole: that's like a real thing. I, I ain't trying to nobody's life harder, you know what I mean? So if I [00:30:00] promise, I really gotta, 'cause it could be more devastating to somebody else. You know what I mean?
Because if I say, all right, I'm gonna get that letter of recommendation for you. I know you gotta get to law school. And I keep delaying it. Delaying and delaying. I wear that. I hold it, I think about it. I lose sleep over it. Like, why did I tell them I could do that? So I think, yeah, just really saying. I'm not gonna be somebody that's just a public success, but really I'm a private failure. not, that's not, that's not for me. And I don't think that's for anybody. So I just, I just try to encourage people where it's like, know you gotta make a dollar. We know you gotta figure it out. We know you need money to make it in a capitalistic society. I totally understand
Megan Hadley: Yep.
Jason Sole: But it has to be secondary.
'cause it's like you say, you stop and you can smell the roses, you can look at the trees, you can take the time to consume that. That's what we supposed to be doing more of. Not less,
Megan Hadley: Yep.
Jason Sole: will tell you, productivity, come on, you gotta be productive. Did you do eight hours today? You only got four hours of work here.
Oh, [00:31:00] you slacking. I avoid all of that at all costs so I can be a servant. Like I say, when my time is done here, I don't wanna be buried with no beef, with no, uh, unresolved issues. I don't wanna have people saying. He was supposed to do this and he let us down and all that. No, I want it to be all peace. So I always know like, this kind of relationship and interaction, it will end. And um, I want to use the time wisely while I got it. So I think that's the sad reality I walk with. Like, know it is gonna be a day where either my mom is gonna have to bury me or I gotta bury her or my wife. I gotta bury her, she gotta bury or my kids. I don't got time to play that. That's really just what it is.
Like, I know this is limited. I can't believe I'm 46 with gray hair at all, but, um, I'm here for it and I'm embracing it. And, um, I look forward to going into my [00:32:00] fifties, sixties, seventies, and beyond. If I, if I'm, um, to
Megan Hadley: Definitely living that thriving life and just being here for each moment of it, knowing that life is fleeting for each of us. Well, I feel like you answered so many of my questions that I was maybe gonna ask you just in how you responded. Um. Is there any kind of final things you wanna say to our listeners?
Anything that you hope that they're holding with them as they move forward with their lives?
Jason Sole: Just knowing that, uh, you know, this life comes with pain. It's a part of it. We complex as people. No one person is one thing. We all complex. We all got stuff that, you know, always tell people like, find you a place to go or a person to go to when you don't want everybody to know. That you got this thing you trying to do because it's, it's certain parts of our lives where we don't want everybody to know it.
Some people got ratchet habits, you know what I mean? [00:33:00] And when we on our zooms, I always say like, what's something you wouldn't normally tell people that you do? And we on this meeting, it requires a lot of vulnerability. It requires a lot of trust, and we, we all said we keeping it here. And we did this one day.
I ain't gonna say who said this, but I was like, I ain't gonna lie to y'all. I'm like, I do cannabis. I'm like, and I flourish with it. I said, I'm not just a cannabis consumer. When I take cannabis, I flourish. I'm talking about writing flourishes, you know, not from a, you know, overuse standpoint.
I'm not trying to promote cannabis either. I'm just really saying for me and my body. The reaction that I get from cannabis, it works. The plant works for me,
Megan Hadley: Mm-hmm.
Jason Sole: and I offer that up to people I'm in a professional relationship with. you be surprised by some of the stuff these folks said and, and one person, woman's shocked me, she say, I smoke a cigar every night and drink vodka.
She said, I know y'all probably don't look [00:34:00] at me like that. We all were like, hell no. I'm like, a fat cigar. And vodka. She said, it is bad. The vodka part is bad. And she said the saka party is kinda too, we never would've thought it. So it's like, where are your spaces where you can share stuff like that?
I.
Mm-hmm.
don't have to, like I say, I don't like feeling like I gotta go outside and keep myself closeted. No. People know who I am. They know what I do. If I go to Hamlin and somebody say, man, I think you smell like cannabis. I could say, oh shoot, let me get that together. 'cause I don't wanna be looked at as unprofessional or disrespectful. But, um. I don't wanna feel like I gotta hide some stuff from you either. Like I don't wanna feel like I'm a
Megan Hadley: Mm-hmm.
Jason Sole: so I just think people need to really think like, what does a holistic lifestyle look like? Where you got the pleasure, you got the work, you got the health piece under wraps, you got the spirituality together.
You know what I mean? It's like I don't read any books on spirituality, but I definitely feel like somebody else is pulling the [00:35:00] strengths. Something else is doing some of this work. It's, it is not me. So it's like I want everybody to have that feeling. So it's like don't look at, uh, myself as an individual.
I look at myself as part and partial of something else. A community, a ecosystem, a team. And I think when we start walking like that, I think we all do much better.
Megan Hadley: Definitely just contributing to that whole and that collective and holding the mystery of it all, like it sounds like too. Um, well, I would love to give you a chance to just share, you know, how people can find you online and your work. Uh, I know you have the clemency petition happening right now, so how can we support you?
Jason Sole: I'm old school, so I. Uh, I'm on LinkedIn. I got a Facebook, uh, humanize my hoodie, got an Instagram, I'm pretty, I'm pretty low key. You know, I'm not really on social media. You send me an email or call me, I get back to you. But yeah, jason [00:36:00] sole.com. what else do I have? Twitter, I think I, what am I on Twitter?
I am Jason Sole. I think that's what it is on Twitter, but really, I'm, uh. I'm not social media and I should be better at that, have TikTok, Snapchat, all of that. But like I said, I keep my sanity by having a few things that I could do really well. But if you want to hit me up on any of those, feel free. For
Megan Hadley: That's so great. Yeah. And thank you so much for that. I, I think there is such a difference between being findable and spending all your time on social media. So yeah, just knowing where people can, can find your work. Well, thank you so, so much for your time today, Jason. I'm excited to hear what our listeners think and to Yeah, like keep this rolling with us.
I support you, you support me. Like what a beautiful partnership. So thank you so much.
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