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Real faith. Real life. Hosted by Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown of Sandals Church, The Debrief Podcast goes beyond Sunday conversations—diving into the questions, stories, and struggles that shape who we are. Thoughtful. Honest. Unfiltered.
Welcome to the debrief podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown, where we take questions about faith, the bible, and culture, and give you honest practical advice you can trust. This is a space to ask anything and get real answers for real life. We're glad you're here. Now let's get into today's episode.
Tammy Brown:Well, welcome back to another episode of the debrief podcast with my husband, pastor Matt Brown.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's Matthew Steven Brown on the show.
Tammy Brown:Steven Brown on the show. I only call him that when I'm upset at home. Yeah. So I'm not usually used to that in a work setting. Sorry about that.
Tammy Brown:Before we get in today's questions, for all of those new listeners that we have, can you explain when we have a question from Annie Moss Yeah. And what does that mean?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So when we first started the debrief episode, a lot of people were afraid, you know, much smaller audience. The church was smaller. Right? So you wanna ask questions and be anonymous, and so people would send it in anonymous, and I just nicknamed that Annie Moss.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so oftentimes, it's not the same person asking questions over and over again. Annie Moss is just a collection of people who want their question answered, but they don't want to be revealed as to who they are. And so we respect that. We respect your privacy, and so send those questions in. Sometimes Annie Moss is the best question, so I appreciate everybody who puts their name on it, but if, you know, if you don't want to do that, that's fine too.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We want to answer your questions.
Tammy Brown:That's great. And on that note, anonymous or not, if you have any question about the weekend sermons, maybe something happening out in the world today, something you're reading in your own personal bible bible study, bible time, send those in. We would love to get those in front of Matt, and have him answer those for you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. And and the way that I learn a lot of times is through your guys' questions. Mean, I I bet 95% of the stuff that I know, they go like, how do you know that? It's because somebody asked a question, and I had to figure it So I appreciate the questions.
Tammy Brown:Yeah. I love when people say, like, isn't today Matt's day off? I'm like, yes, except for that he just spent three hours prepping for the debrief podcast. He does his homework. But parenting, family, dating, we've we've been there.
Tammy Brown:We are getting ready in a few months to celebrate our thirtieth wedding anniversary. So all of the questions, bible, relationship, we're not experts on anything, but we or everything, but we'll be real with you about what we know. So let's get into the first question
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes.
Tammy Brown:From, you guessed it, Annie Moss. We love her. From Seattle, Washington, the PNW. Love it there. This one says, lately, I've been hearing people talk about kingdom spouses and saying that sometimes God reveals to us who we're going to marry.
Tammy Brown:Think this is rooted in the Hosea story. Does God ever reveal to us who he intended for us to marry, or is this something we just have to figure out on our own? That's part one of the question. So I'm gonna continue on. Second part, I feel like the current dating world is really messy.
Tammy Brown:It's always been that way, not just currently. And not many people are interested in pursuing a long term relationship, but rather superficial requirements, I e, their height, their weight, coloring, etcetera. How can we date in a modern world with with online dating existing in a way that still glorifies God? Wow. It's a great question.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Well, that's like four questions. But thank you, Annie Moss. So the first thing is the first question was, I've been hearing a lot about what, kingdom?
Tammy Brown:Kingdom spouses. Like, God's revealed to you who you're going to marry.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So I don't I don't I'm not familiar with that specific language.
Tammy Brown:I had neither.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So that might be it sounds like, I'm not a 100% sure, but that sounds like something our charismatic friends would say, kind of the language that they would use in their church. I could be wrong, but so if somebody is a part of a Pentecostal church or charismatic church, and you use that language, write in and let us know exactly what that means. But I think the idea behind the question is, is really sensing the leading of the Holy Spirit in terms of, hey, this could be a person. So do I believe that?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes or no. I would say sometimes. I think sometimes God makes it very clear, gives us a prompting, gives us a leading, gives us a sense, and so sometimes that's like in the form of a revelation, like I'm supposed to marry this person. Sometimes it's in the sense of this is the kind of person I want to marry, and so I just would be really careful. I think that there's a specific calling for all of us on the kind of spouse we need to be pursuing, and that becomes more difficult with the online dating scene, which is just horrific for dating.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so let me just say this, if you're feeling like the online dating stuff is a mess, it is a mess, it's not good.
Tammy Brown:I think some people disagree though. There are some people who've had Should. I just gotta throw it Yeah. Out we have met people, they're like, I met this person online, but it isn't, it's the exception for sure.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The exception, listen to me, my friends, the exception always proves the rule. That's why it's the exception. So a lot of people think that the exception is the rule. You're right, there are exceptions, but it proves the rule. The reason that we talk about those things is because they are so rare.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so what's happening in the dating world, and this is not like suspicion, this is Google. So 80 to 90% of the women who are online dating are clicking on the same 10% of guys. So you have 90% of men who feel rejected, and unwanted, and unseen, and you have 90% of the women going for the same 10% of the guys, which tends to help those guys be jerks. That's what's happening in the process, and reinforces, I think, the weakness of men, which is men tend to not be monogamous. They tend to be polygamous, and so, and I'm not saying that they should be that way, but what it does is it kind of reinforces that they can do what they want, and choose what they want, and unfortunately, you know, it's kind of like in the eighties, when you and I were in school, is, you know, like the cool guy, all the girls like one guy or two guys magnify that on a scale, 10 x, a 100 x, and so that's what's happening.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And for women, you know, guys are making a purely subjective decision based upon how she looks, right? So when we meet somebody, like if I meet you face to face, and let's say, I mean, obviously I find you attractive, you're my wife.
Tammy Brown:Thank you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But right, I might not initially click on your face on a button, but I meet you, and I go, oh, you know, Tammy's really nice, and she's funny.
Tammy Brown:She's got a great personality.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:She's got great personality. And how about this? I really enjoy being with her.
Tammy Brown:That is such a real thing because I think that there are people Yeah. In real life that maybe you see that you don't initially think are super attractive, and you get to know them and you're like, the way who they are as a person can magnify how attractive they become, and vice versa. You might meet someone that's super visually attractive, and then you get to know them, and you're like
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And they're awful. Oh. Yeah.
Tammy Brown:Actually and you but you start to see them differently, like actually see them differently.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Tammy Brown:I think.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so, yeah, so I would just say that the system that we've created is really to help people connect, right? So the heart behind that, I think was good initially, and now it's just a mess, and unfortunately it's created a hookup culture that's really, really And so what I would say as a Christian, you really, really gotta trust God, and just go to the Lord and say, I want to be married, this is a desire of my heart, and then you have to submit that to him in his process. As Christians, we're not called to follow God as long as it's easy. Sometimes we're called to follow God even when it's difficult, and that's true for marriage. You and I have had great days, and we've had really bad days, but we're called to honor God in our marriage in the great days, and we're called to honor God in the bad days.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And a lot of married couples give up when it's hard, when that's really, they need to not give up their marriage, they need to surrender it up to God, and I think that's important. So let me just say, my heart goes out to you, I'm so sorry, that is a real thing. The statistics are everywhere that online dating is a mess, and I think what you're going to see is you're going to see a revival of dating the way it used to be, people connecting at church, people connecting locally, people being more serious. And part of the issue with dating is we've kind of been lied to, right? So go get your career, get everything right in order, and then find your spouse, and so here's the thing is it's easier to interact with the opposite sex when there's school, when there's church, when there's sporting events, and the older you get, the less of those opportunities you have, and it feels exhausting because we've just kind of been lied to, right?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Pay off all your debt, you know, get everything, or you and I got married, we didn't have 10 to rub together. Zero I mean, think you turned 22 the next day, I was 24, and some people, you know, are much younger than that, and I'm not saying just jump into marriage easily, I'm just saying, you know, if you're a younger listener on this, don't fall into the world's trap that says, get your whole life in order, have all your bills paid off, know what your career is, and then go look for the spouse, because here's what the data says, that's harder. That's a harder way to go. Now, if you are that person, I don't want to discourage you and feel like you blew it, I'm just saying, we've all kind of discovered this socially as a country that, oh, that doesn't work. And especially for women, you know, they've been raised in a feminist culture that says, career, career, career, and don't let your family sidetrack you from that, and there's a lot of women that are regretting that decision, and really longing for being a mom, being married, and a different life.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so what I would say is, this is why it's important to turn to God, and so I'm not familiar with the kingdom language, but the whole idea there, does God have one person specifically for me? I would say certainly in some cases it may seem that way. What I believe is God has one type of person for you, and that type of person is someone who loves him, loves you, and is committed to being a good partner. I mean, those are really, really three things that are so essential. They gotta love God, they gotta love you, and they gotta be committed to being a good partner.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so, you know, like when you and I have a disagreement, or a fight, or a misunderstanding, my willingness to work it out really is based on those three things. So do I love God? Yes, and he told me to love you. Do I love you? Yeah, but that's hard to remember when I'm mad.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I have a commitment, I
Tammy Brown:have It's hard deep to say ever happens.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Thank you. I have a deep commitment, though, to want I want you to think I'm trying to be a good And that's because I am, and that's important to me. And a lot of couples break up because they're more committed to being right than they are to being a good spouse.
Tammy Brown:And
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:so it's just so important that we just say, okay, those three things are important, and just know that, you know, your priorities in dating change. You know, I spent time last week with my friend who has five kids, whose wife died early, and so he has five kids under 10, and he reenters the dating world, and he just said, man, it's just so different now. He just said, my categories, from what it was like when I was 21 and dating and getting married, are just completely different because he's a father of five kids who lost their mom. And he said, I had to put on different lenses as I looked at the dating world. And what I would say is, I think all single people need to put on different lenses.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And the first lens is, I'm okay if I'm single. There's nothing.
Tammy Brown:I'm not deficient. No, I'm not Jesus was behind. I'm not Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Jeremiah was single. David was single. Paul said he wished all were single as he is. That's what the Apostle Paul said.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And he said to free you from the troubles of marriage. Not that we've ever had any troubles because we've been perfect. But that's one of the verses, if you're single, just underline that verse, I wish to spare you from the troubles of marriage. That's the word of God. So I would just say, you know, the most attractive spouse is one that's not needy.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So, and so you just gotta look that way. So what was your second part Well, of the
Tammy Brown:let's bullet these out really quick. Does God ever reveal to us who he intends for us to marry? Sometimes. Answer is sometimes. Is this something we just have to figure out on our own?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Sometimes. Probably. But again, the category, like, we don't figure out the categories. You know, like loves God, loves me, wants to be a good partner. Like, right, those things are and it doesn't matter.
Tammy Brown:I think one of the things that I didn't know then that I probably know now about dating me is I was so worried about being the person that I thought you would want and less which you know from the first five years of a very difficult marriage with Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It was a little bumpy.
Tammy Brown:I wasn't I wasn't as interested in knowing who I actually was.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And
Tammy Brown:I think that if I could go back, I would I would want to know I would ask myself like who, what I mean, by the grace of God, you and I have lasted, and we have ironed out some pretty significant kinks that maybe a lot wouldn't have because we I didn't and and I would say I was a lot of this. Like, I didn't work out. Who was I? What did I want in life? Did I wanna be a stay at home mom?
Tammy Brown:Did I want to be a career wife? Did I want kids? We just didn't have a lot of those questions. I wasn't asking myself the right questions. Where do I wanna be in life?
Tammy Brown:What what am I looking for in a person? And you've said the same thing. You've said, like, we we were blessed to that. You had some pretty low standards as well
Celeste Contreras:Yeah.
Tammy Brown:You've said.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Yeah. I like that you looked good.
Tammy Brown:So he's like, I didn't think about if he would have been a good mom, a good partner No. A good wife, a good, you know, just partner in life. And so in this season of singleness, and I, you know I have the honor of speaking to their life. I'm just like, live your life. I know that it feels so like you're behind or like God's missing me when I'm not.
Tammy Brown:I I know those feelings that not about dating or remarried, but I've had seasons where I'm like, do you hear me, God? You know I've asked. It's the same prayer. It's been a decade. I've asked for this thing.
Tammy Brown:Do you see me? But I would say in singleness to instead of looking everything you don't have that you want, try to try to focus some attention on what you do have, who you wanna be, the things that you could do right now, the decisions that you get to make, and and be knowing what you want out of life and asking God to surround you with people. But, you know, we also you and I have known over the years a lot of single people that are like, I'm not finding anybody. Like, well, are you leaving your house? Are you putting yourself in any kind of
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:groups?
Tammy Brown:Think of all the people Yeah. Just I mean, I'm not saying go join a team at Sandals, but also go join a team at Sandals Yeah. Who've who've met on a team together, who have served together in a certain way. We've met we've how many small groups have we had where Yeah. Two people have met them and gotten married?
Tammy Brown:Because you don't meet people when you're you're not in proximity to people. And so get to know yourself. What do you love? What what are your non negotiables? Which even some of those outside of loving God and being a good person need to be some flex because you're you're marrying a real person.
Tammy Brown:Yeah. So how can we date in a modern world with online dating in a way that glorifies God? Can you summarize that just as we wrap up this question?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. I would just say that I would be very cautious because here's the one thing that we know about online dating, you don't know who they are. I mean, that's the thing. I mean, we can be anybody online, and that's the thing that scares me to death.
Tammy Brown:Well, and it's really weird now that we're adding, like, AI into the mix. Like, is it a real person? Right. There's a lot of weirdness with that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So Yeah. So, you know, again, I mean, I know I sound old fashioned, but I just would encourage you to do that. And and just try to hang in there. And so, you know, the key to happiness is loving what you have. That's the key to happiness.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so I think the key to misery is just focusing on what we don't have and wishing
Tammy Brown:That's what had I mean. It's like love love your life where you're at.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. If you're single, life doesn't start when you get married. Life's already started.
Tammy Brown:Yeah. You're live your real life. Love it right now. And because there there will be things when you're married where you'd be like, oh, I can't just do that thing anymore. And you don't realize it
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm.
Tammy Brown:When you're in it. So but to all the single people out there, I know that we get this this a lot, this question a lot, and
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:and I would say this, would surround myself, if I was a single person in my thirties, or even my forties, I would surround myself with people who are challenging the quirks of my personality, because marriage is a blending, and the earlier you get married, it's still hard, but it's easier, and the older you get, and you kind of settle into your quirks, and you get used to your patterns and the way that you like things, it's actually harder to blend. Because when two people get married, for them to become one, they both have to die to themselves so that the marriage can live. And what I see people doing in marriage, where it's a mess, is they're fighting for their rights, their desires, their wants, their needs, and we have to ask ourselves. That's why I say the three things. They love God, they love me, and they love marriage.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Want be a partner. They want to be a good partner is it's nobody's asking what is the marriage need, and both spouses have to be asking Otherwise, it's dysfunctional. Did we get all of the question? I feel like we just
Tammy Brown:Yeah. That's all of I think that one of the good things that you just said is surround yourself with people. You and I have had people come to us and say, what is the thing no one's telling me? Yeah. And we've had to say some hard things to people like, this might be a part of it that you might wanna consider.
Tammy Brown:And so are you a person and I'm not saying you're not dating to anyone listening. You're not not dating because there's something wrong, but there may be. You may be you might have some things that are maybe opening it up the way you want. And so have some people have some real conversations and be willing to receive it of like, hey, what is the thing that you see in me that I'm not seeing or not? Maybe it's like you're a little negative.
Tammy Brown:You're a little slothful. You're a little you therapize too much. You you're too needy. You're too you know, what is the thing? And then go to the Lord with that.
Tammy Brown:Where does that come from? Why do I why you know? And grown to be the best version of you, and you will attract. You won't have to chase. Yeah.
Tammy Brown:So alright. Moving away from the PNW to our own backyard down here in Cala Mesa, California. This next question comes from Ashlyn. She says, or they sorry. I think it's a girl, but I struggle with Matthew twenty two thirty where Jesus says that in the resurrection, we neither marry nor are given in marriage.
Tammy Brown:Marriage is such a blessing in my life and it's hard for me to imagine heaven without it. If marriage is such a gift from God here on earth, why wouldn't it continue in eternity? Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So great question. So the first thing, Ashlyn, that I want you to notice is the difference between your language and Jesus' language. So your question is, it's hard for me to imagine heaven without marriage. Jesus is not talking about heaven. So, and she quoted it accurately in Matthew twenty-two 30, where Jesus says that in the resurrection, so the resurrection is not heaven.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The resurrection is the new earth. So so we we have to understand that, that the the argument here is the Pharisees that are speaking in Jesus don't believe in the resurrection, so they're Sadducees. So the Pharisees believed in resurrection, Sadducees did not, so they believed that when you died, that's it. So there was tension within Jewish thought at that time. Jesus would have agreed with the Pharisees, right?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:There is resurrection. I mean, he says I am the resurrection and the life in John, so Jesus clearly is a believer in resurrection, and right, the reason we worship him is he was resurrected on the first Easter. So we have to look at this, Ashlyn, from a couple of perspectives. So praise God, you're married, you love your spouse, you can't imagine life without him. I think we've decided Ashlyn's a woman.
Tammy Brown:I think so.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So sorry, Ashlyn, if you're a guy. That's great for you. For most of human history, women were in marriages that they had no choice in. And so when you look at this passage, right, this poor gal has been married to seven dudes. She didn't pick any of them, and so the
Tammy Brown:question- She's property.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes, she's property, and so the question is, whose is she? Now listen to Jesus' answer with that lens on. He says, where Jesus says the resurrection, neither married nor given in marriage. So this would have been very freeing to most women in history because they would have been in marriages where they're second class citizens, they don't have rights, and when you go into the new family, your value and worth is only based upon your ability to produce sons. I mean, you're really never a part of that family.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It was a really, really tough thing for a lot of women. So this is not a legit question on marriage. This is a gotcha question to try to get Jesus on the resurrection, because what they're trying to prove is this is a real problem, because according to their understanding, this woman's worth would have been divided by seven men. So what Jesus is saying is, I'm not going to fall for that camp, and what he's saying is, you don't understand the resurrection, and they don't. They don't believe in it, and they don't understand it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so here's what I believe. I believe that Tammy and I will know each other in heaven, and so why do I believe that? Well, when Jesus rises from the dead, he knows who the disciples are. He knows his unique relationship to them. He knows who Mary and Martha are.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, he still knows and is aware of the special place that they had in his life before he died and before he rose again from the dead. So I believe that you and I will know each other, love each other, and we'll be able to spend as much time as we both want in the resurrection with each other, but our relationship will change because, here's what the beauty of the resurrection is, we all now get to be married to God. God and human beings are together. So this may not be, we may be misunderstanding Jesus here. I believe Tammy and I will know each other, we will relate to each other, we will be in each other's lives, but Tammy is not property.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:She's not my property, because remember what Galatians says, that in Christ there is neither male nor female, Jew nor Gentile, slave nor free, for we are all one in the body of Christ. And so there's a change in the resurrection in value. And so there's a change in Tammy's worth that I think the Pharisees are missing, and so I think that this is not an attack on marriage, but it's an uplifting of the value of women, and he's just saying, look, women are not pawns to be moved around and divided up, and in the new kingdom, they will not be given like property, because we're going to be, he says like angels, but I think the meaning is more like angels, and he's trying to say It's going to be different. And so just remember this, almost everything that Jesus says is a metaphor, and we love to interpret as literal, and that's when you get into problems. Okay, what is hell?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Is it this? Is it that? And so the reason Jesus is using metaphor is because when you use metaphor, it's trying to paint a picture of what something was going to be like based upon the information that we have here. So it's not exactly, So will hell be fire and brimstone? You know, that's how Dante interpreted it, right?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Dante went, Jesus said, It's fire, it's fire. I think if Jesus was an Eskimo, it would have been cold, absolute freezing cold. Now, cold burns, but he wouldn't have talked about fire because to them, right, fire is warmth, protection, and home. To people growing up in Palestine, excessive heat is death. That's why he says, right, I'm the water.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, from me comes a spring that bubbles up, and once you drink from this, you'll live forever. Well, water was something that they understood that brought salvation, so he's using that. Is Jesus literally water? No, so I think here what Jesus is trying to say, Ashlyn, is you don't understand the resurrection, and you don't believe in the resurrection, and so the resurrection, Ashlyn, is not about marriage. It's about our unity with Jesus, and that's the most important thing here.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So there are some theologians that believe that there will be marriage, there will be some way. I believe that Tammy and I will still relate in a very, very unique way, in the same way that I'll relate to my children if they choose to follow Christ and are resurrected and live on the new earth and in the new kingdom with Jesus. Same way with my relatives. I believe that I will know them, and they will know me. So I just would be really, really careful here to try to look at the context of what Jesus is saying.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The resurrection is what's under fire, not marriage. They're using marriage to try to get at Jesus and say, see, the resurrection is impossible because this woman can't be divided seven times. That's what they're trying to do, and he's saying, you don't get it. The resurrection isn't about marriage. It's about a new life that's completely different than what you see here, and so think of this, when Jesus says something about the new heaven, the new earth, N.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:T. Wright says it this way, there are clear signs and real signs. So if you're watching on YouTube, you could see this, but if you're listening in the car, I'm holding up a sign of the question from Ashlyn. So these are real words. So let's say this was scripture.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's a real sign pointing an arrow, and the word of God is real, but over here is fog. We can't see into the fog, but we can read the sign. The sign is true, but it doesn't tell us about everything that's ahead, and we wish we had more information. So marriage is a beautiful thing.
Tammy Brown:Yes, the point is not that marriage-
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:No, it's an attack on the resurrection, not an attack on marriage. They're trying to use marriage to disprove, it's a straw man argument, to disprove the resurrection, and Jesus is like, I'm not falling for that. But ladies, you're not property. You're daughters of the king. You have value, and you matter.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And you know, just think about if you were married to a horrible guy, and the kingdom of God is, guess what? You won. Eternity with him. That's not, you know, some ladies will like, I'll take hell if that's what that means because that would be hell for them. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So great question.
Tammy Brown:What an interesting perspective. Well, thank you for that, and thank you to everyone listening. Again, as I say every time, if you like this podcast and it's helpful, please follow, subscribe, share it with people you know, and continue to support it. Thank you to everyone who does support it. It just helps with our team and our equipment, and just just the the time and energy to put it together.
Tammy Brown:We're so so grateful. And it is such a blessing for Matt and I to hear how many people it reaches and gives us a voice into people's lives that we may never be sitting across an actual table from, but we do get to help minister to whatever way we can. So we're super grateful. So if you are interested in that, keep supporting Matt. And again, we want to get these questions in front of Matt that we can both talk about.
Tammy Brown:But until next time, like, subscribe, support, and we'll see you then.
Celeste Contreras:Thank you for listening. We hope this conversation helped you grow in your faith. If you've enjoyed today's episode, make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe on YouTube so you don't miss what's next. You can also stay connected by following us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok for behind the scenes clips, highlights, and more ways to engage with the community. We'll see you next time right here on the debrief podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown.