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TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays from 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with full episodes posted to Spotify immediately after airing.
Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” TBPN has interviewed Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. Diet TBPN delivers the best moments from each episode in under 30 minutes.
The great lock in continues. We will go into a a review of the last few days. Joel, it's Friday.
Speaker 2:We're having fun. We're gonna be hanging out here on the stream telling you about the American economic roller coaster. You've heard
Speaker 1:this story before. No. It's just nonstop. Okay. So the American economic It's to be back.
Speaker 3:We miss you guys.
Speaker 1:It's good to be back. Yeah. We got a bunch of stuff going. A whole bunch of economic news over the last couple days. Stock market is absolutely ripping.
Speaker 1:We should be in white suits. Intel's up 20% today, so almost. And there's this split between the AI economy and the real economy, the American economy. And there's a whole bunch of different things that, you need to puzzle together to get a picture of what's going on. And then I'm discovering that there are k shapes within the k shapes.
Speaker 1:Even in the real economy, there's divide between different companies. And so I wanted to walk through that. So let's start with the Intel news. It's up almost 20% today on the news that they will be making chips for Apple. There's a report in the Wall Street Journal about this.
Speaker 1:They've released, reached a preliminary chip making agreement. It's not completely locked in, but there's a whole bunch of extra context here that we've been tracking for the last six months, twelve months as some of this was expected. The revitalization of Intel was something that a lot of folks were clamoring for. Ben Thompson, myself, a lot of folks were all hoping for something, and then plans are starting to come together. So the talks have been described as intensive.
Speaker 1:Intensive talks between the two companies have been ongoing. For more than a year, Apple's been talking to Intel. Interesting. Of course, Intel and Apple have been long term partners for, what, called the nineties, February up until the Apple Silicon program where they started going Apple started going direct to TSMC. Can they get them back?
Speaker 1:It seems like potentially in some form factors, but we're gonna dig into it. So they have hammered out a former deal in recent months. And it's still unclear which exact Apple products Intel would make chips for and manufacture them, both its own designs. So Intel has two main businesses. It's both a design shop and a manufacturer.
Speaker 1:They have a fab and a design unit. In its foundry unit, both businesses have been underperforming for years before Lip Bu Tan came in as the new CEO and, was vowing to revitalize them. And so last summer, the Trump administration struck a deal to convert nearly $9,000,000,000 in federal grants into Intel stock, giving The US Roughly $20.20,
Speaker 3:$21 a share. It's now at a $125 a share. Yeah. So White House has gotta be feeling pretty good.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Huge. I mean, I I'm pretty sure Jensen has made over a billion dollars on the $5,000,000,000 investment. I mean, just today, if it's up 20%, and he must have seen a big growth in that position since then. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Did. Just today, probably a 1,000,000,000 or $2,000,000,000 print. And so the reporting here in the journal says that the Trump administration was actually key in bringing Apple to the table, putting pressure on sort of both sides to say, hey, let's think about the future of American manufacturing resiliency, reducing Taiwanese dependence on a foreign supply chain, and giving Intel a real shot at underwriting the next big fad that they want
Speaker 3:to build. Vidya got in at $23 a share with their $5,000,000,000 investment. So up around
Speaker 1:a five x. Not bad. That's not bad at all.
Speaker 3:The guy really needed it.
Speaker 1:He paid for Grock with that. That's pretty sick.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah. He just paid for Grock perfectly. That's why he wired before they actually closed.
Speaker 1:Yeah. He's like, I'm up. I'm I I I got gains. I need to offset these. So, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick has met repeatedly over the last year with high ranking Apple officials, including CEO Tim Cook, as well as SpaceX chief Elon Musk, NVIDIA chief Jensen Huang, to try and convince them to get into business with Intel.
Speaker 1:There was a discussion about should NVIDIA dual source the Grace CPUs from Intel, SpaceX. And Elon's been with Samsung for a lot of Tesla chips, but there's been, discussion there. There was that rumor about global foundries and Elon's always been in the in and around the fab world, and he's obviously going a lot deeper with the long term TerraFab project. So commerce secretary Howard Lettner was trying to convince them to get into business with Intel. Some of the people familiar with Matter said, with the Apple deal, Intel has now signed partnerships with all three.
Speaker 1:So over the last decade, Intel fell badly behind rivals. This is from the Wall Street Journal, such as TSMC and Samsung Electronics, after a series of technical mishaps, leadership changes and failed attempts at consolidation led outside foundry customers to pull or curb their businesses. When Intel hired Tan in March '25, wow, just a year ago, to replace ousted chief executive, Pellet Gesslinger, President Trump raised concerns that Tan's close ties with China would compromise him and called for his ouster. It was a very, very dramatic moment, but Tan won Trump over with a charm offensive. I like that.
Speaker 1:And the government announced its 10% investment in Intel shortly after. Following the investment, Intel shares, price rose sharply. On Friday morning, it rose seven and a half percent to an all time high of nearly $118 per share. It's up more now. Tan has been reshaping Intel's top leadership ranks in recent months, including hiring former TSMC executive Wei Jen Lowe, a move that prompted a lawsuit from So they're not friends anymore.
Speaker 1:Intel's CEO has also ousted his head of product and hired new executives to lead the company's data center processor and client computing units as well as newly formed custom silicon business. He's also invested heavily in Intel's most advanced manufacturing process known as 14a and that is the node that, Intel is hoping that all of the, potential customers will jump together and say, hey, we're going to buy from this if you make it. If you build it, we will come. President Trump personally advocated for Intel to cook in a meeting, which is funny because it sounds like he's advocating for Intel just to cook generally. But he's no.
Speaker 1:He's he's advocating for Intel to Tim Cook in a meeting at the White House, according to people familiar with the matter. Trump said, I like Intel, in January. He said that the government had made tens of billions of dollars from Intel deal and that the government's backing of the company had attracted important partners to Intel. As soon as we went in, Apple went in, NVIDIA went in, a lot of smart people went in, Trump said. NVIDIA, the world's largest chip firm, invested 5,000,000,000 in Intel in September and the two companies announced partnership under which Intel would build custom data center CPUs, the processing brains for most computer systems for NVIDIA.
Speaker 1:And last month, Elon, of course, announced the TeraFab project. And so Apple relies on TSMC to make chips for iPhones, iPads, Macs and other devices and is under pressure to find additional chip suppliers. There's also chip shortages, so it could be good to dual source independent of the geopolitical discussion. On Apple's last two earnings conference calls, Cook blamed a lack of availability of advanced chips for Apple's inability to meet customer demands for iPhones. The constraints are expected to continue in the current quarter affecting several Mac models, Cook said, We think, looking forward, that the Mac Mini and the Mac Studio may take several months to reach supply demand balance.
Speaker 1:And after the earnings call, Apple raised the Mac Mini starting price. And so TSMC's manufacturing capacities capabilities far surpassed those of Samsung and Intel, makers of other kinds of chips for memory and short and storage, for example, are more competitive with one another, giving Apple multiple sources of supply, although, of course, they are memory constrained. Apple's long been TSMC's top customer, but skyrocketing demand for its manufacturing capacity from NVIDIA and other designers of AI chips means Apple's no longer, has as much leverage to secure the supplies that it needs. Starting in 2006, Apple used Intel designed CPUs as its main processor of its personal computers, but switched to its own custom CPUs, based on ARM design in 2020. That's the dawn of Apple silicon.
Speaker 1:And so there's been an incredible economic and financial performance concentrated in just a handful of trillion dollar tech companies. Intel's starting to join and starting to perform like that. There's a few memory stocks. I saw one report that referred to it as the Mag-ten, and they'd added a few other AI names to that group. But there's just a few companies that are driving the vast majority returns in the stock market.
Speaker 3:We had three sort of beautiful weeks where pretty much everyone started saying, there's no way it's a bubble. Yeah. Look at the revenue growth. There's no way it's a bubble. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But now, people Steve over at Bloomberg, we can pull this chart up. The concentration
Speaker 1:Sure. In Yeah. I've seen this.
Speaker 3:The market, you can see
Speaker 1:The AI Big 10. So Mag seven plus AMD, Broadcom, and one other who is that? Micron. And Now make up 40% of the market. Railroads, for reference, during 1835 to 1910 were 63% of the market and he comps it to Japan, the Nifty Fifty, tech and telecom throughout various periods of time.
Speaker 1:And so I was reading this post by or this piece by Greg Ipp in The Wall Street Journal, and he was trying to disentangle what's happening in the overall American economy from the AI economy, what's where is the growth coming from? He, sort of back the envelope did. He said the AI economy grew 31%, while the non AI economy just 0.1%. And he cites a few economic statistics that are recent. Personal consumption, the biggest component of GDP grew a relatively muted 1.6%.
Speaker 1:Investment fell in housing, business structures. I think we're building we're spending more in data centers than housing now or office buildings, I guess. I I think it eclipsed office buildings and factories and transportation equipment like trucks and aircrafts. Meanwhile, investments soared 43% in tech equipment. Obviously, that's chips and GPUs.
Speaker 1:23% in software, surprising, And 20 pretty meaningful bounce back. Certainly on the revenue side.
Speaker 3:Datadog So Atlassian. Yeah. There's been some And reacceleration.
Speaker 1:It really was extremely widespread where you had I mean, you had like DoorDash and and and companies with strong network effects where the software was not their moat. They still had to go and answer to the market. And some of them got in and out of that in a week or a month, and some of them it took a quarter or two to show that there's resiliency. Some of them are beaten down. But overall, you know, software is still doing very well.
Speaker 1:On the flip side, there's another headline that hit the journal yesterday. US adds a 115,000 jobs in April with solid hiring across sectors, retail, transportation, warehousing, and health care all showed strong growth and led to expectation beating jobs growth. And so this is weird dynamic that, you know, you're seeing all of this growth in the in the AI economy and yet the overall employment is still chugging along. We can pull up the chart from The Wall Street Journal, but The US job market blew past expectations in April, buoyed by gains in industries including retail, transportation, warehousing, health care. Not completely unexpected given that those are not particularly AI targeted areas, whereas you might see the layoffs in the tech community, but that doesn't it's just not enough because the The US employs over a 100,000,000 people.
Speaker 1:And so a layoff of 4,000 people at some tech company just doesn't really move the needle when you're talking
Speaker 3:Breaking news about from Gabe in the chat. Texas Roadhouse is up. What? Why? He says 20%.
Speaker 3:I'm seeing 15% either way.
Speaker 1:Why is it up so high?
Speaker 3:He says, you're not bullish enough on Texas Roadhouse. I have never Maybe
Speaker 1:they beat yeah. Everyone says this is a Kiryu filter. It really it really is.
Speaker 3:It's crazy how how viral that Incredibly viral. That meme format has gone. I thought that was just like a thing that I I sent to you because I'd be dying laughing about it.
Speaker 1:No. No. No. It's quite pop quite popular. Broken containment.
Speaker 1:Bully. The American economy added a 115,000 jobs in April. This was down from a net gain of a 185,000 jobs in March, but it was much better than what expectations were for April. Analysts polled by The Wall Street Journal were ex expecting 55,000 jobs, and the real number came in more than twice that, which is like it just breaks the narrative a lot. There's this disconnect between, like, the AI economy and the real economy.
Speaker 1:I was talking to about this. It's like in in some ways, it's like AI is NVIDIA earnings is holding up the global economy and it's holding up the global stock market. It's not actually holding up the the the economy if you view the economy as all of the different jobs and and and activities that happen, even if there isn't incredible growth there, there's actually a a surprising amount of strength and resiliency. The unemployment rate I'm
Speaker 3:waiting to hit the gong until we see what the revisions come in at.
Speaker 1:We haven't seen any revisions from March this time.
Speaker 3:Don't know. Yeah. It comes like it comes like it comes like over six months later.
Speaker 1:The April report coming in after strong job gains in March shows how the labor market is holding up better this year than last. While health care is still leading the way in job gains, other sectors now appear to be picking up. Businesses are seeing conditions stabilizing, and they have weathered the tariffs, so many are hiring. It's looking somewhat better than it did last Diane Swank, chief economist at KPMG says it's still a high anxiety job market. Those who have a job are clearly clinging on, while those who are looking for a job are feeling frozen out.
Speaker 1:I was, I was digging into, you know, where where is their strength within the real economy once you go outside of AI? What is going on? And, there were two recent earnings reports that were sort of disconnected, but showed a little bit of the picture of what's going on. So it was Whirlpool and Six Flags both had very different reports. So Whirlpool, you probably know from refrigeration and, washing machines, dryers, that type of, appliance.
Speaker 1:They've been making an appliance for for over a hundred years, and they've also been paying a dividend since the nineteen fifties consistently. They've never they've never suspended their dividend even through all the great recession, the dot com crash. Every year, they've been able to pay that dividend. They just cut their dividend, which is a really, really big deal for this company since it's a dividend stock. The stock traded down on the news and the stock is down 80% of the past five years.
Speaker 1:And they're in some financial trouble. Like, they have a lot of debt and they have a lot of competition. But you could play that as like, okay, the real economy is like completely chugging to a halt. At the same time, you had Six Flags, which should be the thing that is the most discretionary. Like, do you go to the roller coaster theme park or not?
Speaker 1:And Six Flags just reported higher first quarter revenue. They're growing and they're growing attendance and customer spending. And so now Six Flags is not exactly a juggernaut of business. It's only worth 2,300,000,000 and the stock is down over the past two years, about 50%. But the business is growing, and you wouldn't expect that during a time of, like, deep economic weakness.
Speaker 1:And so there's something odd going on there where as you think of refrigeration as extremely necessary, roller coasters as the ultimate, like, you don't you you you can definitely skip it if you are cash strapped, but the actual dynamics of the market are very different. So Whirlpool sells big ticket necessities, these refrigerators, but they are deferrable. So you can put off getting a new refrigerator. You can repair an old refrigerator if money is tight. But your kids are only really roller coaster age for a limited time.
Speaker 1:And Whirlpool also faces brutal global competition and existing home sales are down 3% month over month. And so all of that drives fewer appliance upgrades and they are not necessarily a beneficiary of all the international competition that they face from LG and Samsung and other international players. And so I I've sort of Quick correction.
Speaker 3:Six Flags or or new information. Six Flags is is been up since since around around November. It sort of bottomed Travis, I remember I was thinking of this because one, they have the ticker fun Yeah. Which is fantastic. The stock has not been having fun.
Speaker 3:But Travis Kelce and a group put in 200,000,000.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:We talked traded about down pretty substantially Yeah. I remember that. After the investment, but it's basically recovered to where it was. Yeah. And
Speaker 1:Well, it's still down over the past, like, five years. Like Yeah. Two years ago, it was it was like a $5,000,000,000 company.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Down down big.
Speaker 1:But but but but but the the what's interesting is that at this time of, like, economic uncertainty and all these questions about hiring, questions about economic resilience, they are increasing revenues, increasing attendance, increasing customer spend, and that's what's driving the stock today. And so I was looking at these two companies, and I was like, they sort of fit into this barbell thesis of the AI future, which I've been seeing pop up more and more. And the two examples that I always give are, one, the Ellison family is both like long SLOP and long anti SLOP. They have a ton of infrastructure investments in AI through Oracle, and then they own legacy media, like Batman, Superman through Warner Brothers. And then Josh Kushner is doing a similar thing with OpenAI and the San Francisco Giants, like, completely opposite ends of the spectrum.
Speaker 1:So you can think of roller coasters as potentially like anti SLOP because you can't vibe code Space Mountain. But but but it it it's interesting to sort of like dig into the weeds of what's going on in the global economy and the American economy and seeing like where the unsuspecting winners are. Ryan Peterson shared a post from the or or chart from the Financial Times that perfectly illustrates our possible futures. This is so funny that this is in in the Financial Times, but they they fully embraced what happens in the human extinction tech singularity and the end of scarcity tech singularity. In the bull case, real GDP per capita goes north of a million dollars.
Speaker 1:And in the human extinction scenario, it goes to zero, of course. But the AI boosted growth path is a steady trend upwards, that is that is the goal that I think everyone should be working for, potentially the end of scarcity outcome as well. And I and I think this this chart that Ryan shares is sort of sort of I think why there's anxiety in the market because there's this, you know, the the whole like you're not prepared if it's not a bubble concept, but there's there's like a dual anxiety where like if if AI gets too good, there's mass unemployment, everyone's worried about that. But if AI is a bubble and it collapses, you go into a recession and everyone loses their job and like you're in a similar scenario of like economic anxiety for both the not necessarily the true doomers. I mean, obviously, they they they face a similar, you know, opinion.
Speaker 1:But even if you're just, like, in the it's overheated camp, there's real risk to the stability. And I think that's where a lot of the the the bubble concerns come from, although we're certainly not seeing very many signs of of the bubble. I mean, obviously, the evaluations are high, but so are the revenue growth charts. So we can go through some of the folks before we
Speaker 3:do that. Are you more of a back of the envelope guy or a napkin math guy?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's interesting. I have a napkin here from Wonderco from the event brought in. Oh, would you
Speaker 3:look at that? Yeah. A souvenir. I like
Speaker 1:I like a napkin. I like a napkin. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, napkin math is insane. It's extremely hard to write on a napkin. Totally.
Speaker 1:It's way easier to write on
Speaker 3:the back
Speaker 1:of an envelope. Yeah. And you get a big envelope. You can get an envelope that's eight and a half. It's it's effectively
Speaker 3:An envelope is sophisticated. Spreadsheet. An envelope is is is kind of a core business utility.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Napkins can be used for for anything. If you're in napkin math, you gotta pivot
Speaker 3:I will say I'm much more of a napkin math guy. Why? I can't I mean, just just just The phrase spiritually and the phrase that I pulled. Okay. But if I can't get excited about an opportunity based on what can fit on a napkin Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Then I'm I'm never gonna get excited about it.
Speaker 1:So you think a napkin is is definitionally smaller? It's a less amount Totally. Math?
Speaker 3:It's not it's not it's a it's a lesser vehicle
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Than an envelope.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Because a big envelope, you could do a full spreadsheet on.
Speaker 3:Totally. You could
Speaker 1:you could write out comps
Speaker 3:Totally.
Speaker 1:And have multiple cells.
Speaker 3:No. So I'm I'm I'm in in practice, I'm a napkin math guy. But if something was really serious, I would
Speaker 1:probably Yeah. We've been doing too much napkin math around here.
Speaker 3:It's time
Speaker 1:to pull out the big guns. Let's get out the envelope. Speaking speaking
Speaker 3:of envelopes, so this morning, I was telling Tyler
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm I'm I'm incredibly overwhelmed with Slacks Yeah. Emails, you know, DMs on every platform, LinkedIn DMs, Instagram DMs, X DMs, all the different messaging apps. And I was thinking how cool would it be if there was a service where you connected all your inboxes to and then every day Mhmm. They would print out all of the different messages and then bring them to you Mhmm. And you could put like a box.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You could put you could put a box outside of your house and they would just put them in there Yeah. And then at a specific time, you know, maybe in the roughly like two hour window, you could go out and grab all the
Speaker 1:Yeah. Print it out it. Messages and sort of
Speaker 3:of like leaf through them, decide what you need to respond to. You would potentially because you're only getting messages once a day, you would probably be a lot more intentional about what you wrote back and forth. Totally. Right? And I think that could be
Speaker 1:Sort of the opposite of Earth class mail, those virtual mailboxes. Because they'll they'll they'll take your physical mail
Speaker 3:I everything. I want
Speaker 1:everything to put in this box.
Speaker 3:I wanna put a box outside of my house that people put. And I think there's something there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Trump I mean, Trump literally does this.
Speaker 1:He does that. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 2:He gets emails printed out. And then he'll write with a big marker his response and then his assistant will scan it and then email it back.
Speaker 3:More on C Fry says a napkin is more available than envelope. Very true. Often the best business meetings were not scheduled as a business meeting.
Speaker 1:So there aren't envelopes around.
Speaker 3:There's no envelopes around but there's plenty of napkins.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Also, you're I mean, you're saying napkins are smaller, but if you're at a restaurant and you have like a fabric napkin Yeah. And you want those can be pretty big.
Speaker 1:So you're you're supposed but I feel like it's bad form to be at a restaurant. Like, you're not supposed to ruin the napkins. Or do do you carry a pen that has washable ink?
Speaker 2:You have the crayons for the kids. Right? People are The
Speaker 3:chat is saying
Speaker 1:They don't ask you to
Speaker 3:The chat is saying I could call my service the United States Post.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's a good name.
Speaker 3:Thank you, Alex. That's a great
Speaker 1:name. That's sort of like the the the San Francisco artificial intelligence company or something like that or the Yeah. Yeah. Browser company of New York. It it would be inspired by that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Think that You didn't even with the crayons say he uses kids
Speaker 3:crayon, closed fisted grip, right on the tablecloth.
Speaker 1:Tablecloth. Okay. Yeah, I feel like if you're given crayons, you are expected to maintain that the child uses the crayons only on the children's menu, which is typically made out of paper, very disposable. If you see the child using the crayons on a cloth napkin, you are expected as a patron to intervene.
Speaker 3:Jackson says digitize this service and call it email. There we go. We gotta we gotta get we gotta establish the mailbox first.
Speaker 1:We got an idea.
Speaker 3:Then we can go there. But I like where you're going.
Speaker 1:Well, there's some other there's some other posts about the the the markets. Justin Spitler says them, be careful buying semis here. Obviously, the market's very,
Speaker 3:very Let's pull up this video. Overheated.
Speaker 1:Travis. Let's play this video. Oh, this is Travis Pastrana?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. Nitro Circus, we mentioned many times on the show. Is he drinking a Red Bull?
Speaker 2:What a Yeah. No parachute.
Speaker 1:Oh, no parachute.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So he jumps out of the plane, no parachute drinking That's a Red Bull. That's actually then he connects. He's gotta do some tricks first.
Speaker 1:He's really taking his time here. The tension is building, building, building. And so he connects with someone who wraps him up and then do they pull the parachute?
Speaker 3:To each other?
Speaker 1:Or do they
Speaker 3:They they they strap him to them.
Speaker 1:Oh. Oh, okay. There is a strap. Strap themselves. Because it seems sort of crazy just to bear hug and and hope for the best.
Speaker 3:I don't know. You're bear hugging.
Speaker 1:Don't know. It's Red Bull. Anything could happen. I would I would I would expect him to be delivered a full parachute, his own parachute that he then, you know, dons and and but he made it. Wow.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what it's like investing in semiconductors right now, I guess. Anyway, how was your last two days, Tyler? What what did get up to?
Speaker 2:It was sick. I was at the
Speaker 1:I went to the trial. You went to the trial?
Speaker 2:Opening our Elon trial.
Speaker 1:Okay. Walk me through it. You left the the studio on Tuesday. You leave the office at two after we wrap the show on Tuesday. You went straight to the airport?
Speaker 1:I did. Okay. Yep. And then what time did you go to bed? Because you woke up really early.
Speaker 1:Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I I I got to the trial. So it's in Oakland.
Speaker 1:I got to the
Speaker 2:courthouse at I I think like something around like 05:30.
Speaker 3:05:30.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because you gotta get in line. Basically Really? You know, it's a public. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it's because it's like a federal case.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. There like has to be some room for the public. But there's only like I I think the number is somewhere like 20 or 30. Because I I think it's closer to 20 because I think part of
Speaker 1:the Yeah.
Speaker 2:30 is reserved just for media.
Speaker 1:Okay. And when you got there at 05:30, were there already people standing in line?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So so there were I think there were like three or four people there already. Okay. In line.
Speaker 1:Early bird getting warm.
Speaker 2:That's Well, I because I didn't wanna be late, because, you know, I because Did you talk to people? A few of them. So so Were
Speaker 3:you there before Mike Isaac?
Speaker 2:I was there before Mike Isaac. Wow.
Speaker 1:But he has a media pass.
Speaker 2:So so yeah. Because last time when Mike Isaac came on the show, he said that because each, like, news.
Speaker 1:Yeah. He New York Times got one pass and he was splitting it with Cade Metz. And so they were sort of going back and forth and I guess he had a media pass that day.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that day he had a media pass. Yeah. He he got there pretty late. He got there like 07:30 or eight.
Speaker 1:Okay. So you're there from 05:30. He gets there at What time does the trial actually start? Around 08:30. 08:30?
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So basically, I'm just posting up for, three hours. Okay.
Speaker 1:And then this is Wednesday. So walk This Wednesday. What what what are you seeing? There's these opening remarks from the judge. They sort of welcome everyone in.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Jury comes in. Okay. So there are basically three main, segments. So basically, I'll say it starts 08:30, ends at, I think, 2PM.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. There's two breaks, two twenty minute breaks. Okay. So starts off and we we watch, like, the deposition of Mirrati. So this is all live streamed.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 1:The the
Speaker 2:the audio is live.
Speaker 1:The audio is live. So And you're seeing a video?
Speaker 2:We're watching the video of her deposition. K. It's mostly covering the the ousting, the the time line of the ousting. And and This is where this is where all the the text came
Speaker 1:out that Yeah. Yeah. And were they showing you the actual text? Were they playing a video? Or were they playing the AI reenactment of the text?
Speaker 1:Cause we have this, someone turned, Sam Altman's text to Miramaradi into a 2011 style emo teeny teenage heartthrob anthem. Did this make it into the courtroom or no? Let's play this. We have the audio.
Speaker 3:Good
Speaker 1:motion graphics too.
Speaker 3:Wrap up soon lots
Speaker 1:of Who ever made this? Talented. Is this Suno? Can you put in text into Suno
Speaker 3:and get a full song? Play this for an AI skeptic Yeah. And and see what their reaction is because
Speaker 1:How do you see this and not wanna build? I I've I've seen these before, and I've always really enjoyed them. But with most of the AI music tools, I've never found a great way to put in a full script that I've written to get the results. But does so
Speaker 2:the author said his steps to make this. So first, he OCR ed the images and turned them into plain text. So images of the actual text messages. Easy. And then remove the names from the dialogue, paste it into Suno, and iterated, like, 20 to 30 times.
Speaker 2:Oh. And then finally thought this one was catchy.
Speaker 1:Okay. Yeah. Put up a version of this with the with the Gen Z brain route slang. Yo, fam, can you give me a vibe check? And am I cooked or nah for real for real?
Speaker 1:Satya and the gang low key stressing. Miramaradi, yeah, you're skibbidi. This isn't a rare l. This is an Ohio level generational or a loss, little bro. Who ratioed me?
Speaker 1:Sam Altman says. Miramaradi, some rando zesty NPC twitch looks maxing sigma. I'm not even gonna go further. What else happened? Did someone actually get on the stand or was it all video?
Speaker 2:Yes. So the first like hour
Speaker 1:a straight up teacher played a movie. It's movie day. No. The web It's a movie day.
Speaker 2:But the judge actually did get angry because like the she was like, oh, the jury's gonna get bored and like she was like offering them coffee and stuff. Okay. So basically, yeah, the first maybe hour was mirror deposition video and then we go through some of the actual like documents again the text messages. And then Siobhan Zillis Yeah. Is testifying.
Speaker 2:So she's physically there.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:She was a Yeah. Yeah, open ad board member 2020 to 2023.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And she steps down when Elon started XAI. Yep. I have no idea how long that was. It that was
Speaker 1:the majority of the It was during the whole conflict.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Perfect person to testify. Well, no. So so she actually left the board before the ousting. So she left in February 2023.
Speaker 2:Ousting is November.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. Interesting. I didn't I I the timeline always gets so jumbled up because, like, there's, like, twenty eighteen battles between Sam and Greg and Ilya and Elon, and then there's the board.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because all throughout this I was staying. This hearing, there's, like yeah. There's basically two main
Speaker 1:main, like moments. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And we're sort of clicking back and forth between them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Chat wants to know what kind of Wombas were being thrown around. Was Lorraine being used? People saying, can you please Lorraine this email?
Speaker 2:Siobhan was actually dropping some good lingo. I I
Speaker 1:I something like Mike Isaac always talks about, like, keep referencing DOTA and they keep everyone on the stand is using a ton of jargon. How jargony was it? Was it like Dwarkash Patel podcast level jargon or like actual, like, researchers, like, talking to each
Speaker 2:other jargon or I would say it was not very sophisticated, especially among the lawyers. Right?
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Siobhan, she did Yeah. Drop some good lingo.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I I yeah. It was some referencing some, like, why she got into
Speaker 3:AI Sure.
Speaker 2:About acceleration and all this. Okay. Okay. And then after that, it we watched another, like, hour long video of Helen Toner's deposition. Wow.
Speaker 2:That was just about the the ousting.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, it was very fun. I enjoyed a lot. Yeah. Like, basically, almost everyone, like, sitting in my section, which was basically the public and the and the media. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, everyone that came as the public were basically also media.
Speaker 1:They just
Speaker 2:didn't get the media pass.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Sure. So everyone surrounding me is is on their laptop, like, typing basically. Walking. Just, like, taking down what's what's being said.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then I'm just sitting there enjoying it because it's, like, you know, it's good stuff.
Speaker 3:How how would you rate Mike Isaac's, like, snack and overall food supplies for the day? Did he
Speaker 2:burn I I believe he did bring the butt pillow.
Speaker 1:It seems like he's not making progress on the food front. I would expect by day seven of this, he would have a smorgasbord in front of him.
Speaker 2:I fasted the whole time. I just kinda just locked Why it
Speaker 1:didn't you figure we we have talked about the food situation so many times. How did you not think ahead there?
Speaker 2:I just wanted to make it more challenging.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I was like, this is gonna be too easy.
Speaker 1:DeepSeek is raising a monster $7,000,000,000 round at $50,000,000,000 valuation making it China's largest ever AI raise. But what shocks a Jaws here, CryptoPN, the most is the founder. He's personally contributing 40% of the round himself. Wow. 3,000,000,000 coming from the founder directly, owns 90% of the company, unheard of at this valuation.
Speaker 1:DeepSeek was founded inside of his hedge fund, one of China's most successful fund. What a beast. He's gotta acquire as much compute to push out new DeepSeek models. You know, we saw that chart that showed that, Chinese open source models were sort of falling behind a little bit on a different growth curve in terms of performance. But, you know, he's certainly betting on getting back in line having a, you know, frontier model within a within a couple months.
Speaker 1:Zach Brock says, congrats to Anthropic for defeating Grok in the market and feasting upon the compute of their fallen enemy.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Basically, every time we take every time we take a day off Yeah. The show, like, something big happens on Wednesday Yeah. Was the was the The big reveal. X AI or SpaceX Anthropic deal.
Speaker 3:A lot of people have been predicting that. I I was not simply because I thought there it it was like the rational decision Mhmm. For the parties. Yeah. But I thought that the tension between, you know, Elon who had only a couple months ago been, you know, hurling insults at the Anthropic team.
Speaker 3:I didn't think they would be able to uncover that, those cultural differences. Totally. But demand for compute finds a way.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think that you and others had identified the possibility of becoming a neo cloud, selling the compute Yeah.
Speaker 3:Last last year, I was talking about that a lot, all the time. I was like, look, they're incredible at building infrastructure really, really fast. Bringing power online. This feels like a very strong a strong use for Elon Inc. Yes.
Speaker 3:And but I but as things evolved, I just didn't see I didn't see this coming together.
Speaker 1:I didn't see this coming together specifically because of the cursor deal. I thought the cursor deal was the long term solution for all that compute and then the compute sort of got sold twice maybe. But of course, there are multiple clusters, multiple colossus data centers Yeah. And plenty of work to be done as SpaceX continues to grow their ambitions.