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Join the Nerds!
Welcome to the funtastic world of the Fabulous Learning Nerds! Scott Schuette and Daniel Coonrod and Zeta Gardner are Learning Executives with over 50 years’ experience between them. Together they share new ideas, learning tools, approaches and technology that increase learner engagement and impact. All while having FUN! To participate in the show and community please contact them at learningnerdscast@gmail.com
The nerds are all about creating a community of learning, innovation and growth amongst educational professionals: Instructors, facilitators, instructional designers, learning and development professionals, trainers, leadership development professionals, learning metric gurus, sales enablement wizards and more. So, if you want to learn, connect, grow and have a good time doing it, The Fabulous Learning Nerds Podcast is for YOU!
Scott Schuette (00:06.954)
Hey, everybody. Welcome to another amazing episode of your Fabulous Learning Nerves. I'm sketchy, your host, and with me, my co-host with the most Dan Coonrod.
Daniel (00:12.397)
You're right!
Scott Schuette (00:28.618)
Dan.
Daniel (00:29.005)
Scott! What's up Scott, how you doing?
Scott Schuette (00:36.394)
I stole it. I stole it.
Daniel (00:36.811)
Well, don't, you did, don't know what I'm gonna say now. That completely breaks my flow. End of the episode for me, I'm done. Now!
Scott Schuette (00:41.418)
I'm sorry. We can both be fair to Midland. I'm fair to Midland. Yeah. Right, right? I'm fair to Midland and I'm super pumped. You wanna know why I'm super pumped?
Daniel (00:52.841)
I do want to know why you're super pumped.
Scott Schuette (00:55.434)
because Godzilla minus zero is coming out.
Daniel (00:57.771)
Scott Schuette (01:02.826)
Yeah, yeah. it looks... Godzilla minus one was the last Toho. This is the new Toho. And do know what the zero in Godzilla minus zero means? who is monster zero, Dan?
Daniel (01:04.939)
What was the last Godzilla movie that came out?
Daniel (01:10.433)
Godzilla minus one. Yeah.
Daniel (01:18.956)
They do not.
Daniel (01:23.85)
Is it Godzilla in this case? Is it man? Is it us?
Scott Schuette (01:25.214)
No,
Daniel (01:34.581)
see I didn't know.
Scott Schuette (01:50.986)
Before that, Legendary's gonna have Supernova, and you know who's in Supernova, right? Well, you got Kong, and you got Godzilla, and you got, are you ready? Space Godzilla, yeah.
Daniel (01:56.14)
I do not.
Daniel (02:03.351)
Yeah, yeah.
Daniel (02:07.341)
you
Scott Schuette (02:09.046)
Okay, which is awesome in and of itself. So there is a Godzilla versus space Godzilla came out in the 90s. It's totally awesome. It's really dumb, but I like that. But you you got two of the greatest things ever. You got space and Godzilla. So it's totally awesome. So there it is.
Daniel (02:17.197)
That's okay.
Scott Schuette (02:26.39)
How are you? What are you excited about?
Daniel (02:29.901)
Let's see, I, so first off, just wanna say, Godzilla minus one was.
like so much better than I thought it was gonna be. yeah. Yeah, I was like, yeah, I was like, I was like, holy crap, like this is great. Let's see, what am I excited about? That's tough. The new Nick Cage Spider-Man is coming out, I think in June. I'm super excited about that. I'm, I am.
Scott Schuette (02:39.22)
Right? Right? But it had any reason to be. It had so much better. My wife goes, that was a good movie.
Scott Schuette (02:59.189)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Schuette (03:04.374)
Spider-Man Noir would be that, yes.
Daniel (03:05.749)
Yeah, and I am curious at how they're gonna do like this edgy dark Spider-Man tale with Nick Cage at its heart. Like Nick Cage is good actor. I love everything that Nick Cage, almost everything Nick Cage is in. But man, like I'm really interested on how he does noir.
And is it going to be like slapstick or what's it going to be like? So I'm, I'm, have a little bit of trepidation, trepidation, trepidation. but I'm also pretty excited for it. I'm also very excited for it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Schuette (03:45.504)
Yeah. Here's my thing. You ready? Don't mess this up.
There you go.
Daniel (03:53.773)
No? No, no, no. What's that?
Scott Schuette (03:55.319)
Don't mess that up. It'll be really great. Okay. You know what else I'm excited about? Our topic of the week. Should we get into it? Ooh!
Daniel (04:02.413)
Let's do it, let's do it.
Scott Schuette (04:12.128)
This week we're talking about building without tools, right? Right, like, I mean, that's insane. Like, you and I are actually gonna talk about this. And yeah. So what do we mean by that, Dan? Building without tools.
Daniel (04:16.065)
Yeah!
Daniel (04:21.566)
listen.
Daniel (04:26.295)
So yeah, like I'll come in. I dropped a LinkedIn post earlier this week. Last week, I got asked by somebody like, like, do you think you could edit this SCORM file for me? I don't have the Articulate file. All I have is the output, you know, the HTML, the zip file.
And, you know, I think just even as long ago as short ago as six months, I would have been like, oh man, that's tough. Like it's going to be really manual and it's, it's going to suck. And I don't know if I want to do that, but this, this time I went, went, yeah. Yeah. Like, what do you need? Oh, it's real little. I just need to change like, you know, this question here and I just don't have the source file. Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can do that.
And as I opened up the file and found the question and I was looking through it, I was like, know, like this, like most learning, most e-learning that people take anymore are just HTML. They're just websites with a bunch of extra stuff wrapped around. I bet you, I bet you I could just, I bet you could just AI this. And I got home.
And I opened up Claude, because that's the tool I've been using a lot recently. And I stopped. And I was like, man, I feel like I know what the answer is. Can Claude code do this? Yeah, that doesn't seem like a hard question. So instead, I was like, well, can I do this locally?
And just behind me, I've got a little mini PC. It's nothing super fancy. It's got a lot of RAM. RAM's really expensive right now, but I bought it for RAM. Costs as much as a reasonably priced used car. And I just said, hey, I want to build a course that does that. Basically, I just picked my resume. I was like, based on this resume, build a course that walks through somebody about me. And
Daniel (06:46.647)
put five questions at the end and put some interactivity on each slide. I gave it super vague, like just to see like what it would spit out.
And I mean, it spat out a course, like complete, like SCORM compatible, functioning. I tested it. It tracks completion. It tracks right and wrong. You know, if you don't get 80 percent, it says, hey, you should take it again. Like.
Scott Schuette (07:01.598)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Schuette (07:16.117)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel (07:18.251)
That's amazing. I built that. There was no Articulate involved. There was no Captivate. There was no Rise. You know, there was no authoring tool except just a language model on a PC in the same house as me behind me, not online or anything like that.
and
That got me thinking, and that's why we're on this topic. And Scott, I know you built something. Before I jump into my thoughts after, do you want to talk about what you built?
Scott Schuette (07:53.206)
I will, but I have questions about what you built first. So aesthetically, was it? I shouldn't say anybody, but I believe you when you say Claude built this for me and it worked and it's great. But from a user engagement perspective, aesthetically, does it do the job?
Daniel (07:55.969)
Hit me with it.
Daniel (08:11.243)
Yeah, like aesthetically, like, I tell you what, let me go ahead.
Scott Schuette (08:12.735)
Really?
Scott Schuette (08:16.265)
Talk to me about that. Does it have images and everything in there or?
Daniel (08:20.889)
I will say this, I didn't put images and that makes it sound boring, but a lot of heavy lifting happens basically with the CSS. tell you Scott, why don't I pull it up and share the screen and then you can tell the audience kind of like what it looks like, because I'll be biased. I'm like, this is it. Let me go ahead and find that link.
Scott Schuette (08:25.439)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Schuette (08:35.157)
Okay, great.
Daniel (08:43.821)
to do.
Daniel (08:53.613)
If you want to cut out the long silence here, that would be great. I mean, I guess I should have had this pulled up.
Scott Schuette (08:57.459)
You think? Sure. I probably will.
Daniel (09:14.637)
All here we go. I'm going to share the screen.
Scott Schuette (09:18.548)
Yeah.
Daniel (09:26.209)
There you go.
Scott Schuette (09:28.951)
look at that. It looks very familiar. So you've got some, looks like, it looks like Poppins. I don't know if you use Poppins for your font, but it's one of my favorite fonts right now. So it's nice and big and easy to read. And you've got a nice, you know, it just says L and D, Journey, Next and Previous. So standard stuff. There's no pictures of you, but it's not, it's not about this. It's not terrible, right? It's not what I, what we would have saw a year ago would have been completely terrible.
Daniel (09:30.999)
Yeah.
Daniel (09:48.405)
No, no pictures of me.
Daniel (09:52.609)
Yeah, I didn't think it was terrible.
Daniel (09:57.247)
Yes. yeah. Yeah.
Scott Schuette (09:58.838)
Yeah, this is not completely terrible. Then you've got your resume in there. How many learners did they support? And then so I get to answer that. Oh, that's kind of cool. And you get to highlight stuff. That's pretty cool. Yep. OK.
Daniel (10:10.155)
Yeah, let's just look at little facts. Yeah.
Daniel (10:21.741)
Everything's clickable, there's interactivity.
Scott Schuette (10:25.757)
You got the dragon drops. So he's dragging and dropping his answers versus picking A through B through C and D, which is nice. Yeah.
Daniel (10:34.445)
So like, and like overall, like, yeah, it looked, I thought it looked great, especially from like something built like just locally. Yeah.
Scott Schuette (10:45.171)
Yeah. mean, if, if, all, know, from a proof of concept MVP perspective, I think it works. Like if you're trying to prove to me that you can build some, this is actually very cool. Like you could go ahead and build something from you using a AI agent without using one of the big, bigger models to do all this kind of stuff. I think that's really kind of cool. The challenge is going to be on, did it put in all the, my goodness, what are those things?
where if you do something, does something else. What is that called again? I'm sorry. Yeah.
Daniel (11:14.475)
The sliders. Yeah, that's interactivity. That's a slider. But yeah, no, it did all of that.
Scott Schuette (11:23.005)
Right. Because that's a big pain in the butt, as you know, with Articulate. Huge pain in the butt. Like, I got to click on the arrow and then it does that. And then I got to change this so it'll do that. yeah. So I got to think spatially about what I do. Versus, hmm. I'm going say that's why I think like Rise and some of the other programs that are out there, the basic ones that aren't.
Daniel (11:28.81)
It can be in like-
Daniel (11:36.397)
Then I was talking to you. I was talking to you before. Go ahead. So sorry.
Scott Schuette (11:49.479)
I mean, just make it easy, like from a learning and development perspective, making it easy is really important. So continue.
Daniel (11:56.621)
I was saying, imagine this came from a pretty vague prompt. I didn't put a lot of time and effort into scripting out the prompt and really digging deep. This was just a small local model. When I say small, it's something that I think most people in our audience could probably find a PC to run. it was not difficult.
Scott Schuette (12:02.131)
Yeah.
Daniel (12:24.513)
And it wasn't like a giant model that needs like, you know, like two 50 90s in some PC that cost an arm and a leg. You know, like I said, it's running on a mini PC behind me. That's four years old.
Scott Schuette (12:38.165)
All right. That's really cool. And you're saying so SCORM compliance, so when I'm done, I can just export it out. this is nice. Very pretty. I could just go ahead and export it out and put it into whatever LMS I want, right?
Daniel (12:54.253)
Yeah, I mean, it's it's SCORM 1.2. So I didn't go like fancy. I didn't try to like push like 2004 or anything like that. Again, as a proof of concept is just like a can I do it? Can the AI model I chose do it? The answer was yes.
Scott Schuette (12:57.204)
That's not bad.
Scott Schuette (13:08.277)
Yeah. Oh, it's interesting. Your retention questions are all scrolled down, so I get to see what the questions are. But I don't think that's a bad thing. mean, most of the time it's like one slide, next slide, next slide. But if I'm taking a quiz, I'm going top down. So that's not bad at all. Do I get, pick a wrong answer on one. Do I get feedback off of that?
Daniel (13:16.876)
No!
Daniel (13:30.605)
Absolutely. So let's see here we go through here. What's that?
Scott Schuette (13:34.375)
that's the only thing. But I, know, learning things. So what Dan is doing is picking all his answers right now. He's got five questions. He's picking all the answers. And I, okay, you got all but one right. And the one he didn't get right turned red. So there might be an opportunity to go ahead and provide learner feedback there. Or there might be opportunity. got 80 % you passed. That's good. Your quiz is all about you. So, you know, that's important. But I think there's certainly opportunities from, from a, wow. Look at that.
Daniel (13:58.177)
Yeah, feel like 80 % for me is pretty good.
Scott Schuette (14:03.734)
Well, you put it in Scorum Cloud. Holy schnikes, you put it in Scorum Cloud. Holy wow, it took you five minutes because you and I are rambling about stuff. But I feel like the opportunity really is in that learner engagement perspective and then what can you do. So from a proof of concept perspective, great.
Daniel (14:05.964)
Yeah, yeah, he's...
you have to test it.
Daniel (14:15.159)
Yeah
Scott Schuette (14:27.583)
fine now it's just about finessing. you go back? mean, if I had to, if you had to finesse it, what tool would you go back and use? Or would you just reprompt it all?
Daniel (14:35.863)
I mean, honest to goodness, I had to go back and someone was like, you're like, hey, like there's no art. Like if I want to put some art assets in there, honest to goodness, I'd probably just upload the art assets into my prompt and be like, hey, here's some pictures. I want to use this picture on this slide and this picture on that slide and just, you know, rerun it.
Scott Schuette (14:42.502)
Yeah, right.
Scott Schuette (14:54.463)
So yeah, right. No, that's interesting and great. feel like from a foundational, baseline foundational perspective, it's good where I think Articulate and some of the other programs are going to be of value is, well, we could do that, but we can make it super pretty. We can make it super pretty from an engagement and retention perspective. think that kind of still, that's my humble opinion. I think that's still kind of important, but I'm not saying that what you have here isn't. And if you think about
Daniel (15:19.564)
Yeah.
Daniel (15:23.459)
no no no, no no.
Scott Schuette (15:24.403)
You know, you think about my mind share today with your audience. Like I, I hate, my gosh, I hate, I hate taking CBLs. I hate, I don't have time for them. Right. And so if you can, if you can, from a micro learning perspective, this is sweet. Right. Cause I can go ahead and create something using Claude that helps me identify and change behavior in a way that my audience can get through in a short period of time.
And you could save a poop ton of money, right?
Daniel (15:57.783)
So I will say this, you're right. I do think we talked about node tools and just as a basic thing to get this done and complete as a proof of concept, it's great. And you're right, 100%. I think right now if somebody had some good skill with Articulate, as with anything when you're...
Up against AI, the person with the skill wins.
Scott Schuette (16:32.329)
Yeah, yeah, no, I totally get it. I feel like that's kind of where we still have value is in that total package. But we talked about this a few weeks ago. Like if this saves you time so that you can provide structure around how are we going to change behavior and how do we drive that and how do we measure that? Like that's a win, right? Versus how long would that have taken you to create using a big player program?
Daniel (16:58.245)
I mean, if I jumped into Articulate and had to build that, mean, with five questions like that, like a few hours, you know? Like, look and feel. it took me five minutes. Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Schuette (17:06.441)
Right, and that took you what? Yeah.
five minutes versus five hours, you could easily grab some popcorn and go see Godzilla for sure, right? I mean, that would be something I would do.
Daniel (17:19.871)
Now we didn't talk about this before the show, but I do want to share something else with you. So like after I built that locally and I was like, I can do this. I was like, man, I wonder, can I do this with Claude?
Daniel (17:40.425)
And so I picked the topic. I picked the K2 mountain, you know, and said, Hey, can you build me a quick 10 slide training on K2 just as a proof of concept. And I'm sharing this with you now, Scott, so you can see it here. And again, we'll, we'll make these available on the website or through like a GitHub link. So that way you guys who are listening, you'll be able to have access to these and see these. It's the best radio, but like, this is what it built.
Scott Schuette (17:58.474)
right.
Scott Schuette (18:08.617)
that's nice. got a slider.
Daniel (18:10.711)
little slider, yeah, a little click on each thing to give information.
Daniel (18:19.967)
And I would say this that we're looking at in Claude, like I do think somebody, a really skilled individual in Articulate could probably build to this level. But I mean, this is, this is, mean, Claude's, you know, one of the top tier models out right now. This is not local.
Scott Schuette (18:34.569)
Right, so, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Scott Schuette (18:39.923)
Yeah, I mean, again, from a mindshare perspective, I mean, this is really cool, but I wouldn't want to go through it. But maybe it's just I'm not I don't care about the content because I'm not a mountain climber. I'm a mountain baller. I fall down mountains really well. But that's nice. You get a waypoint with this. that's cool. I like that. That's very cool. But it needs some color. Right. It's pretty you got a pretty monotone palette. You get
Daniel (18:52.309)
Ha ha ha.
Daniel (18:59.873)
Yeah.
Scott Schuette (19:09.397)
It looks like a notebook pad and everything else is kind of a maroon in color. So mean, some color and some flair would be great. I'm not saying it's bad. Like, I couldn't do this. Now, did you just go ahead and, you know, for both prompts, did you just have it search the web and get what you needed other than that? Well, your first one was all about you, so you gave it your resume.
Daniel (19:29.389)
No, first one I just built, I just grabbed my resume and said, build a learning course on this as a proof example. This one I was like, just build me a course on the K2 mountain, like, and off it went.
Scott Schuette (19:33.577)
build a course about my resume.
Scott Schuette (19:40.435)
Yeah. So yeah, other questions. like you use Claude. So what version, I mean, what package do you have through Claude?
Daniel (19:52.281)
I've got, I've got the, the, the, the big boy package, so to speak. I think I've got like the $200 package for Claude right now. But that being said, I don't think anyone, you wouldn't need anything more than the $20 package in Claude to build this. Yeah. And to build it well.
Scott Schuette (20:02.27)
Okay.
Scott Schuette (20:10.943)
Yeah. Yeah. And that would be my expectation as well. Like I think I would. I mean, eventually, holy smokes. mean, can you imagine a world where you can prompt and have your have your agent make videos for you? You can already make videos to be a prompting in Clipchamp through co-pilot. Are they good videos? No. But you can do that.
Daniel (20:32.971)
I will say you should take a look at Claude Design that just dropped this week. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, really. Maybe we'll talk about that on another one, because it just dropped.
Scott Schuette (20:40.939)
really? man. Don't even get me started. Really? OK. I'm going to have to look at that because because Sora 2 went away. So all my fun time. What's going away? It's going to end on Sunday. I'm really sad because I like making videos of cats bowling and stuff like that. I did do proof of concept that using Sora 2 for a quick like Instagram kind of reel. And I made it in Sora 2 and I showed my boss and he was like, that's really cool. What's the use case? Like,
Mine chair cool. It's great. I get this talking Was a talking pool chemical in a bag. It was kind of cool. Yes, Dan
Scott Schuette (24:08.63)
Okay. All right. So, Clawed Design, we need to go look at Clawed Design. That's cool.
was really neat. So do you want to hear my story? I got a cool story. All right. It's not as cool as yours, but it's still cool. in I got a new gig in my, my work is using Copilot, which I have learned is actually pretty ding dang awesome. If you have enterprise Copilot. So we have enterprise Copilot. The thing that I like about enterprise Copilot is it makes a
Daniel (24:20.2)
I do! I do!
I don't know about that.
Daniel (24:38.983)
Okay.
Scott Schuette (24:45.194)
significant attempt to use APIs with the best stuff that's out there. And I did not know that you could create stuff in Copilot. You can create images and whatnot, and it's linked right to NanoBanana. So I might as well be using NanoBanana. And then I don't have to go out to Gemini and use NanoBanana. I'm using it, right? And then the chat function is Claude. Well, now don't know if it's the latest in Claude, but I'm using Claude for that. So.
One of the things that we had to figure out, was in a meeting last week, was this idea of normally we transcribe meetings and take notes that way. And so how do we transcribe a meeting when no one's on Teams, we're all in the same room? Do you know how to do that?
Daniel (25:33.781)
I
Scott Schuette (25:35.414)
set up a Teams meeting and transcribe it, right?
Daniel (25:38.249)
I was going say, you could honestly, goodness, like, yeah, just open up a meeting with one person and record it. Yeah.
Scott Schuette (25:43.98)
Yeah, no, don't do that. No, that's silly. You don't even need to do that. Just open up Word. You open up Word, and you hit Dictate. And then it'll pick up everybody in the room. And that's how you get your notes, which is super awesome, right? So I tell you that story so I can tell you this one. One of the things I needed to do is create a communication training plan. And I had talked to my senior director about it. And I took a whole bunch of notes. And then I got the
Daniel (25:48.053)
Okay, what do you need to do?
Daniel (25:53.034)
really?
Scott Schuette (26:11.534)
you paying for my boss. Hey, have you created your communication plan yet? Cause we need to talk about it. I'm like, no, not yet. Cause I've been buried like sipping from the fire hose. Okay, great. So what I did was, I just turned on my word and I hit dictate and I went through my notes. So instead of typing out my notes, I just talked. This is what we talked about. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Here's some additional thoughts I have about it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Stop. So now I got this like all this notes.
on my Word and then I went to Copilot in Word and I said, looking at these notes, make an outline for a 10 page deck that talks about the communication plan and what's important about the communication plan and how to put it together. And three minutes later, boom, I've got an outline. I'm like, holy smokes. And it thought through what I had talked about because my notes were all just kind all over the place. We just kind of, it was all over the place.
They made sense of my notes. like, this is cool. So then I'm thinking, so then I took that and I saved it as a Word doc and I opened up PowerPoint and I dumped it into word PowerPoint in our co-pilot of PowerPoint. And I said, create a slide based on our slide, clear your slide deck based on these notes.
And it did. And it looked really good. Like it didn't have any images in it. I didn't ask for images, but it did. It had a professional look and feel to it. And it had a design flow that I actually thought was pretty, pretty good. Like it wasn't just bullet, bullet, bullet, bullet, bullet. Next slide. No, they, they, it made buckets of it would bucket stuff and put them in the boxes and tables. And I'm like, wow, this is great.
So then I actually took that deck and I uploaded it into co-pilot again, because we have templates and I'm like, could you take this and put it into our work template? So now I got two of the same PowerPoint, one's in a work template, one's not. And what I did was I just kind of took that and then I used my ninja skills to really kind of make that come to life. just kind of, wha! And I made it all come to life. One, coming up with a plan and making it work, day or two.
Daniel (28:14.741)
You
Scott Schuette (28:26.254)
or maybe a day, know, kept thinking about it, writing it all up, blah, blah, blah, blah, it into a PowerPoint and making sure that it's usable for sharing, right? That we could share it out, that makes sense. A couple hours, right? 30 minutes, 30 minutes, and then 30 minutes of fluff. So I put 30 minutes, an hour, I put an hour into a project that, it saved me a day. So now I'm super excited and I get a phone call. Hey, I have to make a presentation.
Can you help me? And I'm like, oh, cool. I just learned something cool. What do need to do? I needed to make an executive presentation. It's due Thursday. OK, can you help me? OK, great. What do you got? I just got notes. Perfect. Right? And so it's at the end of the day, you and I were going to talk yesterday. And I said, I have an appointment at 4 o'clock. I've got to be done. She's talking to me at 3. And we went through all their notes, right? And I asked some right questions, like, hey, what's your ass going to be? Because she didn't have that.
We figured that all out. put that all into her notes and that did the same thing. And I had, I had an MVP deck for her by four o'clock that looked pretty good. And then today, what I did is I took that MVP deck and I really put some ninja skills into it, put a couple hours into it, right? Really good executive level, you know, images and stuff like stuff that would make it look like we spent some time and put some rigor into it. And that maybe an hour or two.
And it's gorgeous. Like it's absolutely gorgeous. And she was like, holy smokes. How did you...
I didn't have to do anything. so this whole idea of like, one of the things I think is really important, and this is something you, you know, we're talking about for the show is you gotta be curious. You gotta be curious. I wonder if this will work and then you try it. And if it, if it doesn't work, like what's the worst that you could have tried putting this course together, what's the worst that could have happened?
Daniel (30:22.964)
Yeah, mean like, worst that happened is it didn't work. Yeah. Yeah, no! I'm out 10 minutes.
Scott Schuette (30:24.696)
that it didn't work. Yeah, but you learned something, right? Right? Well, I mean, but there comes a point in time where you have to stop, right? So my experience is that prompt doesn't work, prompt doesn't work, prompt doesn't work, prompt doesn't work. Stop, go back to what we know, come back to it later. Because at some point in time, you can over prompt and overthink things and you're not gonna get anywhere. So as soon as you can identify like, I'm not,
getting anywhere with this, then stop, right? So that's my only thing, but man, I'm telling you, I'm a hero today. And I love that. Who doesn't like being the hero? And the other thing too, is it allowed me, because of all the work that I didn't have to do, it allowed me to really focus in on coaching her through her story. So we spent an hour today talking about her story, not how it looked.
Daniel (31:06.453)
dude.
Scott Schuette (31:20.619)
Right? Not all this stuff, but to really talking about like, hey, what's the with them? What's the ask? How do we support those things? What's missing? All that stuff versus, okay, it's three o'clock. You got to have this done by four o'clock. Here you go. Have fun. there, done that, right? Have the poster on the wall.
Daniel (31:42.847)
So like, and that's like what I want to talk about. Like we've talked a lot about the nifty things that we've had the AI machine build for us. And like, that's cool. But we brought it up as our topic of the week. These all got built with one tool. Like we said, without tools, but like obviously like you used Copilot, you know, but we all just used AI. That was the tool.
What do you think it looks like when we're building everything by prompt? mean, like right now, like you read stories, like people are building all of these apps and they're doing all this stuff. And I've done it. I built an app that I use for me that I self-host and I just use it. It's just a thing for me to help me in my calendar. Like.
that I just was like, I would like to have this and none of the other apps out there have like this functionality and also like are, aren't that I can't self host and I want to be able to self host it. So.
Like, what do think it looks like when...
Daniel (32:56.039)
Articulate I love Articulate. I really do but at the same point like it drives me nuts It crashes, you know, you know, like like you're not you're not officially a learning and development professional until Articulate has crashed and taken three hours of work And you screamed at your computer Like what is what does it look like when you don't need Articulate? What does it look like when you don't need ice cream or like
You know, we've talked about Chameleon Creator here on the past, which I love. The guys at Chameleon Creator are great.
Scott Schuette (33:29.237)
Yep, Steve, we love us. We love you, Steve.
Daniel (33:31.753)
But like...
What does it look like when you don't need them?
Scott Schuette (33:39.371)
I still think you'll need to a certain extent for a while. I really do. I mean, we might get to a point where we won't, but then they're gonna need to figure out what their value proposition is. And I think that there's always gonna be those people who prefer to, that are the artists and I just prefer to build it on my own, right? And I don't believe that from a creative perspective as good as my MVP was, right? My minimum viable product was, I mean, it was good.
Daniel (33:56.405)
100%. You're right.
Scott Schuette (34:06.537)
I knew that I still needed to put some rigor into it because I have brand standards that are important to me. So again, our value is now at the table from a leadership perspective of, in this case, how do I put together a pretty good executive story to help this person out so that they can get something that'll move the business forward? That's great, right? And of course, we probably could have just went with the MVP, but-
It's easier to get yes if I can gather mind share and all that other groovy stuff. So I think, like you said, there's going to be this opportunity where people are still going to want to use and build stuff. I don't think that video editing is going to go away. No way. Because people are just really, really good at it and are going to be better at it. Because it's the context that matters. So there's context. And at the moment, as good as Claude is and as good as Co-Pilot is, they don't have context at all. And a lot of times they're wrong.
Daniel (35:04.171)
but see context comes, yeah, but see context comes from you as the author. But I'm saying what if you don't use these authoring tools? What if you just prompt in? Like you gave me some great feedback because we're looking at these like courses that got spat out real quick, right? That's a prompt away to fix.
Scott Schuette (35:24.237)
That's assuming that you know what you're doing, right?
Daniel (35:28.681)
What's the entry level to learn Articulate versus Copilot or Claude?
Scott Schuette (35:33.15)
my gosh. Yeah, but again, I don't know if we're there yet.
Daniel (35:39.729)
I mean, you and I both had examples this week where we came, I don't know, within spitting distance.
Scott Schuette (35:44.705)
Yeah, but okay, so, yeah, you know, I get all of that, but the difference between you and me at the moment is our curiosity around it and how to leverage it. So, Dr. Julia McCoy, if you're not following her on YouTube, you need to. She's fantastic. I need to figure her out. She cloned herself. She has a digital avatar, and that's what she puts stuff up, and she talks AI all the time. So the reality is our world is heading very rapidly into ...
You know, we used have the haves and the have nots. Now we're going to have the knows AI and not know AI groups of people. That's what's going to happen. And so it's really important. You and I are curious about that. We're going to test our tools. We're going to push our knowledge. We're going to see how we get things done because we recognize the value of, of having that in our toolbox so that we can lead better and have, you know,
more time to really finesse and have impact for the business versus spending a day and a half in my case, putting a deck together, right? Or day and a half in your case, putting a program together. So it's that curiosity I think is cool. And I'm sorry, this is my humble opinion. Not everybody's there yet, but you need to be. So that's my thing. If you're not there, if you're not out there, if you're like, what is this AI stuff?
should I get involved? The answer is yes, and just start doing it. Does that make sense? And yeah, eventually we'll get to a point where, mean, remember when it was like a year ago? Like we have friends in our business that they have made a business out of how to prompt the right way. Remember that? Like, okay, this is how you, not necessary anymore. Like it's not, they figured it out. You know what I'm saying? You don't
Daniel (37:17.842)
Now, 100%.
Daniel (37:37.097)
I think it's a lot less necessary. don't think it's necessary anymore. do think that you still... Learning to speak AI is its own language and each of the models has their own unique language to get to be optimal. it's not essential, you're right.
Scott Schuette (37:50.669)
I agree, but again, it's that life, the lifelong learner in me, prompt result, that wasn't what I want, reprompt result, that's still not what I want. I'm gonna go to chatGTP and ask how I prompted, try that, that's not the result, iterate, iterate, iterate, till you get something that's good and then you save it and then you do it over again until, you know I'm saying? So that's my experience, it works really, really, really well. But you're right, we're gonna get to a point,
right now where we should be able to just prompt our stuff and get it done, prompt the work and get it done. So again, from a value proposition perspective, it's really important, I think, to always recognize I a training and the Microsoft people said, you're the final boss when it comes to this stuff. And I really liked that analogy, right? Like you got to get through me first. So if you're not checking your work,
Daniel (38:46.943)
Hmm.
Scott Schuette (38:49.197)
then you're not acting like a final boss. If you're really putting your finger on top of stuff and saying, this meets the mustard, you're not acting like one and you will be defeated by Mega Man very quickly with or without the power glove.
Daniel (39:04.757)
I love Mega Man.
Scott Schuette (39:07.447)
I love Mega Man. Once you figure out what you really had to do in Mega Man, it became super fun. But before that time, I was like, why did I get my butt kicked so quick? What a great learning experience Mega Man was.
Daniel (39:18.514)
I will say.
I will say that I think we are quickly heading to a place.
where these tools represent
Daniel (39:38.153)
just a change in how we use the tools that we use now and eventually not needing those tools or even just like you being able to make your own versions of those tools. like if instead of like, I need to I need to use Articulate or I need to use Captivate. You're just like, no, no, no. I coded up something, you know, a few months ago I used just to fine tune stuff and I just use, you know.
shooty learn, you know, 2027. I do think that's where we're heading.
Scott Schuette (40:10.35)
That's nice. Sure. Yeah.
Scott Schuette (40:18.54)
Yeah, I agree. Well, this is probably a pretty good time for us to kind of close this one down. We had a super good time talking about groovy stuff.
Scott Schuette (40:32.268)
Do me a favor, could you go ahead and let our audience know how they could connect with us?
Daniel (40:36.509)
Absolutely. Party people, you guys know the drill. Email us at nerds at TheLearningNerds.com. This week, why don't you tell us if you could have any tool that you wanted for learning and development, what would it be and why? I think that would be kind of interesting. If you're on Facebook, you can find us at Learning Nerds, all of our Instagram peeps, Fab Learning Nerds. And lastly, for more information about us, what we do and updates, www.TheLearningNerds.com.
Scott, back at you.
Scott Schuette (41:08.536)
Thanks, Dan. Hey, everybody, me a favor. Could you go ahead and hit that like button, hit that subscribe button, and share this episode with your friends? Lots of really great stuff here. Make sure that you are stepping out to be curious in this whole world and try new stuff. And share what you're learning with others because it's going to make the world a much better place. And do me one more favor. Could you go ahead and leave us a review on wherever you get your podcast because it'll help us understand if we're talking the right stuff for you and it'll help the algorithm.
do its job and get this really great stuff out to more of you. With that, I'm Scott and we're your Fabulous Learning Nerds and we are out.
Daniel (41:42.901)
I'm Dan.