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Hello and welcome to the Insights and Sounds podcast, a podcast centered around classical music. Join Dr. John Sinclair, and explore composers past and present, their works, and an occasional classical music informational episode.
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Dr. Sinclair: [00:00:00] Hello. Good. People we're back. I bet you wondered where we've been. We've wondered where we've been too. we have been busy and we're ready to start providing some podcast material for you, and especially as we enter into. The 91st annual Bach Festival. I have as a guest with me today, one of my favorite people, , Beal Kim, who is our pianist.
And you heard her last time as we talked about Rhapsody and Blue. But today we're gonna talk about the Rachmaninoff piano concerto number two C, minor Opus 18, the one that orchestral musicians refer to as the Rock two. It's perhaps one of the most beloved works in all the piano repertoire. It's renowned for its sweeping lyricism, its emotional depth, its virtuostic, yet deeply expressive writing.
And he composed it in 1900 to 1901 when he was exiting, uh, about of depression. And this is the one piece they said that gave him confidence. Again. But let's [00:01:00] get to the, the heart of this welcome bill. So great to have you with us today.
Dr. Kim: Hi everyone. It's good to be back. I feel like I'm the regular here. I hope you're not tired of me 'cause I miss you. All
Dr. Sinclair: All good, and no one's tired at, at all of, of you or, or of hearing you talk about these works. Tell me a little bit about why this piece is so much fun or so challenging to play. Tell me from the pianist's perspective how you view this piece of music.
Dr. Kim: This piece. , I always say there are a few pieces the pian pianist must know, and if you do not know rock two, that means you're not pianist. Period. That is really bold statement, but that is really true. , A lot of pianists. Um, there's so many good recordings too. I don't know. What about this piece? Just make everyone.
Keep [00:02:00] coming back to this piece, but I think that's kind of related to what Doug, you already said about the piece itself. Um, the wan, you know, of compost it after a long time of like non composing period because of his depression and. I think because of that element, a lot of people find this piece really therapeutic.
They feel like this piece is healing them. I was actually going through a lot of YouTube videos just to see the comments, not to listen to the recordings. Actually, I was doing that and I was really surprised to see so many comments are. About like, oh, I was going through some mentally hard time and this piece is the piece I always come back to
Dr. Sinclair: That's fascinating.
Dr. Kim: Yeah. Not none of other concertos. I really notice about those comments, but especially this rock too. It is noticeably a lot.
Dr. Sinclair: I [00:03:00] don't doubt that at all. I, I, I, I know that people feel that way about this work. Tell me about from the very beginning. This piece starts differently than any piece. I know it starts with those beautiful cords like bellone
Dr. Kim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Sinclair: Yeah.
Dr. Kim: It's really unique, isn't it? Just a few bars of dark sound from the piano. I mean, piano is the instrument. We can create like so many different types of sound, but his use of this open cord, especially in the low register. The bell like Russian, typical like bell, that is really special.
But I'm not gonna lie that because of that few bars, I almost said no to this piece. Really? Yeah. I had this conversation with one of my close friends and, 'cause I have small hands, right? But the first few bars for me, I want it to [00:04:00] sound like this sound does not exist in this world. Truly. It's really coming from.
Like the space, it should be perfect few bars to set up the mood, but I have small hands so I can't avoid but to just some roll some chords, but they breaks the moment for me emotionally. That was why I'm like, you know what, maybe, no. But back in 2019, I signed a contract to play this piece with Pasadena Symphony in California. And guess what? Pandemic came our favorite.
Dr. Sinclair: no.
Dr. Kim: Oh. So yeah, we,
Dr. Sinclair: and it got canceled.
Dr. Kim: Yeah, it got canceled and then we got rescheduled. So, um, after that year, you know what, it's been five years, it's about time, right? So now I'm coming back to these first few bars, chords again, and it's giving me new perspectives for sure.
But still, [00:05:00] those few bars are really scary.
Dr. Sinclair: Well they must be, you know, rock bonoff. It's a little unfair what he's done to pianists. Uh, they say his hands were like basketball player hands. They were massive.
Dr. Kim: Oh yeah.
Dr. Sinclair: And so for him to play those octave chords were just nothing.
Dr. Kim: Yeah. It's as if I'm just playing the sixth or something.
Dr. Sinclair: yeah, yeah. So it's, it's a little unfair what he's done, but it creates, what I find interesting is how those chords play perfectly into the, draws the, the piano into the emotional content of the orchestra immediately.
Dr. Kim: Yeah. And then after those few bars, , pianist basically disappear. Yes, we are playing millions notes in the first few pages, but actually it's the orchestra section they're leading and we are kind of giving just some like filler gestures of the shape.
Dr. Sinclair: It's, it's unique. It's not completely unique, but what I find about this concerto that I don't find in all the concertos, or [00:06:00] even just say most of it, there are very virtuosic piano sections that are strictly belong to you. Boy, there's a lot of time that you're part of the orchestra.
Dr. Kim: what I love personally about this piece is how it's written for the orchestra too. Like in the second movement, it's the old wind.
Dr. Sinclair: Oh, I know. That beautiful. Those beautiful clarinet solo, for example. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's stunning.
Dr. Kim: Yeah, it is that part. I mean, practicing it like second movement is beautiful. The piano part is gorgeous, but it is not satisfying.
So I keep just humming the line when I'm practicing.
Dr. Sinclair: Well, you know what I find interesting, uh, about this piece as well is that there have been a lot of pianists over the years that have tried to write concert, and sometimes they're accused of being really just writing the piano part and the orchestra parts not very important, but Rock Marinoff was the real deal as a composer too.
I mean, look at his symphonies. Look at his choral works. I mean, [00:07:00] this was a. Completely developed composer and and you would be able to tell me better than others, but by everything I read one of the greatest pianists of his time as well.
So you have a virtuosic pianist who understands how to write for the instruments with massive hands, who also is a first tier composer.
And so when you combine those two, you get a really unusual piece of music. And this is, I would argue, is his most famous of his piano concertos,
Dr. Kim: Mm, yes, I, I would agree. I mean, third one is equally often perform, but second one is the most loved one for sure.
Dr. Sinclair: Yeah. So in talking about that second movement, I always feel it's kind of dream-like,
Dr. Kim: I was gonna say the same thing.
Dr. Sinclair: it, it's, it, it feels almost as if there's a, a sheer curtain between the sound. It's, it's got a, a [00:08:00] quality, it reminds me a little bit because he has those triplet figures against Mm-hmm. It, it, it becomes almost impressionistic at times.
Dr. Kim: I like that. I like that
Dr. Sinclair: 'cause that's what I hear in impressionistic music, you are those twos against threes. Uh, that gives it that kind of rhythmic uncertainness. But, but, but also. Creates an a, an an aura, and he's able to do that in this
Dr. Kim: Yeah. And also the chromaticism
too, right? that's true.
Yeah. Triplets. Um, triplets. It's not really necessarily having clear. Harmony progressions. It's taking us to somewhere, but you do not know where we are heading to. So in that sense, yes,
Dr. Sinclair: Well, there's a lot in my life. I don't know where I'm
Dr. Kim: dunno where I'm
Dr. Sinclair: So that's, we're gonna be completely in line with this. Um, so, so let me ask you a couple questions about the piece, preparing Mm-hmm.
what are
Dr. Kim: the
Dr. Sinclair: technically challenging things about this work?
Dr. Kim: [00:09:00] technically. I mean third movement. Yeah. Technically it's the stamina I must say. I mean, I'm usually not short on the stamina, but after playing the second movement, which is the most
gorgeous, um, movement, probably. I mean, out of all the concertos I'm seeing, 'cause I am not lying, this movement is really. By a lot of people's favorite movement of all the existing concertos.
I'm not lying. I understand Yeah. And after being in that dreamlike zone of my own space, starting the third movement is brutal.
Dr. Sinclair: Oh, it's gotta be. It's, it's, it's It's like you've been in a, a nice, almost darkly lit room and then all of a sudden someone flashes on the
Dr. Kim: Yeah. And wake up.
Dr. Sinclair: Oh, it's, it's,
Dr. Kim: that was Rachmaninoff's inspiration.
Maybe he had those moments.
Dr. Sinclair: Maybe he did. But, but I, I would see, I can see why that [00:10:00] would be challenging. So. Talking about endurance, how do you prepare for something like this? I mean, you know, it's a little bit like a, you know how a runner prepares for a marathon? So this is a kind of a pianistic marathon. So how do you, how do you prepare like that?
Dr. Kim: That's, that's always interesting yet hard questions piece like this. I started with the last movement,
Dr. Sinclair: Okay.
Dr. Kim: um, 'cause I knew that that's gonna be the most challenging one technically. But now that, um, in the middle of my preparation phase, I actually found the second movement hardest.
Dr. Sinclair: Interesting.
Dr. Kim: but that's when I know, okay, I reached to the next level now like a technique.
No problem. Now let's talk about the music type of thing. When I don't feel satisfied in the sound that I'm making, um, I feel like I'm lost in the process. And that second movement really gave me that challenge. Um, so I [00:11:00] usually start just run through, just keep reading through the piece. Like who knows how many hours it takes the first run.
But I love sight reading. I love reading bunch of new music that is just my like hobby time and that is one of my four tattoo. So I just do that multiple times and I am the type of person I need to get the flow first before. Me having the clear ideas of a specific section. So some artists might approach like, oh, this is my favorite melody.
I'm gonna learn. I'm gonna master this beautiful moment, and then kind of expand from there. But I am the opposite. I need to have the bigger picture first and then kind. Zoom in and yeah, so that is always how I approach the music. But in the concerto, you know, there are multiple movements. Usually I do see the whole piece, [00:12:00] meaning like multiple movement as one.
Gigantic work, but honestly, with, I'm pregnant by the way. So, uh, with this pregnancy, that was really challenging. So that's why I had to approach from the last movement
and yeah, kind of break it down.
Dr. Sinclair: in continuing with the preparation of this and, and, and in your knowledge of the music of Wan Enough, which I know is extensive, what themes or themes or part feels most rockman enough to you that when you hear this and you play that you think. This is why I play this composer's music.
Dr. Kim: my first. Rachmaninoff piece was Rachmaninoff Sonata number two, which has the, um, descending like chromatics melody line. And then I always a, some kind of like falling motion, , associated with Rachmaninoff. But in this piece I noticed a lot of like [00:13:00] ups moment as well. Maybe that's his attempt to get out of that depression.
Dr. Sinclair: Maybe
Dr. Kim: Yeah, maybe. , but yet still that like ascending moment keeps getting like voided. So it like that line, so that line keeps coming back. But the first movement
that melody, I mean, you're, you are gonna notice it in the concert, but that melody is just so special.
Dr. Sinclair: sweeping. It just, yeah, it, it, it feels like to
Dr. Kim: me
Dr. Sinclair: as I, I was studying it last night and it feels like to me it's a breeze that just catches you and, and you ride, you ride the wind with it. Yeah. It's it, and, and then with of course, the piano part underneath it, you're the rhythm machine kind of
for us.
And we, we are, we get to be the wind, but you're the rhythm machine. The orchestra does. So, I agree. It's just, it's just magic.
a question I've always wondered about, about pianist here. How do you approach differently than when you're doing a a, a sonata or a solo [00:14:00] piece? How do you approach projecting your sound through the instrument when you have an orchestra? That may be a foolish question, but, but I know that it's something that you have to think
about and it isn't just sheer
Dr. Kim: volume.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Sinclair: No, it can't
Dr. Kim: Yeah. It's not the volume, it's the clarity. Like in the concerto, like that is a really important lesson I learned. Um, when you are with orchestra, there are so many instruments and they have their own distinct sound and characters in their own instruments.
So to make the piano sound more like I am also here too, like you gotta have that definition of the sound you are looking for. Section by section. So when I say clarity, yes, sound clarity too, but also what kind of sound are you looking for? Like do you have clear idea [00:15:00] about each section? So yeah.
Dr. Sinclair: Well, is there, is there a difference in your mind when you're playing. When you are part of the orchestra is do you try to have a different sound when you're actually playing into the orchestral sound as to when you're the solo voice?
Dr. Kim: Absolutely. Absolutely. , the easiest example I can think of is the beginning of the first movement when you guys come in as a main leader. even though I do have like, there are technically like rhythmical complexity in some sections too, but of course that does not mean much. 'cause anyways, that section is about just the motion from the piano.
So in that section, I don't need to be. Heard all the time. Then I tend to make more of the gesture. By using, I mean it becomes really technical, but for pianists, if we use more fat on the fingers, it creates some worm sound and not like really like sharp
sound. [00:16:00] So that means it creates that, um, breathy sound we are looking for.
But of course, if it's the sweeping melody by me, me alone as a soloist, then I try to really voice out. 'cause I need to speak to every single person who's sitting in the back of the chapel.
Dr. Sinclair: You know, this might be, , a revelation to those listening and thinking about how a pianist produces a sound. I think there's a, a concept that you just push the notes down and they kind of happen at the right time, but in the hands of a, of a master like yourself. You're dealing with a lot of colors. I think they're a beginning, beginning pianist.
You know, it's a little bit like the Crayola set. You get the 10 colors, but when you get to become a master, you get that 144 pack with a
Dr. Kim: Yeah. What way? To
Dr. Sinclair: you get, you get to do all kinds of colors. And I know that you think about those colors and shadings as you play. And is that ever conscious in your mind as you're playing that I need to shade [00:17:00] this a certain way?
Dr. Kim: Oh yes, absolutely. Um, I always tell younger pianist. That the more sound palette you have, the better pianist you will be. And unless you can really start exploring that sound palette, you cannot really say that you are a pianist. Um, so that is the fun part about being a pianist. 'cause we are not percussionist, I mean perks.
I don't know much about the per shop. Maybe they need to think about the colors, but, um, there's just so much of how. Also using our body like body mechanism and those things affect the sound and that is just fascinating. There's no single perfect answer. And you do not know what kind of piano you're gonna play.
You do not know what kind of venue you will be playing, how many people are gonna be sitting in their audiences. That all affects our sound. So even [00:18:00] though we are trying to say, oh, I wanna, I wanna use my 35. Like degree angle of my third finger in this passage. Good luck. That's not gonna work. You never know where you're gonna be sitting, right?
So I always try to come up with, okay, this section I need, I love using some kind of expression. So maybe, maybe this is like after sunny day, there's a rainbow, but I feel like I see this purple, but I don't quite see it. Like I love using. Those expressions on my score. And that way I do know exactly what kind of sound I was looking for at that moment.
And I try to go by those in the performance, not like, okay, here I need to up my shoulder. I need to use my wrist up or low. Instead of doing that. Yeah,
Dr. Sinclair: Yeah, this, this is, like I said, gotta be a, a revelation to some people that, that it becomes this, this detailed and this sophisticated. I've, I've, uh, [00:19:00] observed this, but, It still boggles my mind that you can think about all those things as you're pro producing a Z. So rather than go on forever, is there something else you want to tell our audience about this piece, about the performing of this piece and why they need to come and hear you play it?
Dr. Kim: We all had those moments in our life that we feel like we are just stuck and we are lost. Ourselves. And if you experience that this piece is really for you, 'cause you are gonna remind back then of yourself and maybe like where you are now, 'cause you are gonna really feel how Rachmaninoff suffered and how he tries to, like how desperate he is to get out of that depression, but how miserable that also felt.
But finally maybe he was over. By the time he completed it,
Dr. Sinclair: Well, that's what they said. They said
Dr. Kim: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Sinclair: is the piece that brought his confidence back and made him [00:20:00] feel, uh, complete again.
Dr. Kim: Yeah. So that big of journey you're gonna definitely feel from this piece. Um, one thing you can really pay attention to in the performance is how, um, pianist, there are a lot of soulistic moments too.
I set up the mood emotions for you, but. Orchestra really completes the scene. It's not just my work, it's not just the piano part, orchestra without the orchestra. My practice is no fun. Guys,
Dr. Sinclair: Well, you know, people, people oftentimes ask. You know what you do. It looks like it's great fun, but every job has something that is not fun. And so what is that? And I think most of us musicians, we can say, you see the hour we're on stage, you don't see the hundreds of hours that we sit by ourselves and, and, and perfect that piece.[00:21:00]
Um, it it is a magnificent piece and I can't wait for us to perform this. This is, this is a piece that. I have had a score to it for a long time and was supposed to conduct it years ago, and, uh, uh, due to an illness I did not get a chance to conduct either. So yours was a pandemic and mine was an illness.
So this is finally, many years later for both of us coming to fruition. So, um, I can't thank you enough for, for talking with this to, you know, to me this, this piece endures. And to me it endures because it speaks directly to the
heart. It's, it's, it's a very emotional piece. It blends technical, brilliant brilliance from you, rich orchestration from a master composer, and what I refer
Dr. Kim: to
Dr. Sinclair: as emotional honesty.
he's not hiding.
Dr. Kim: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes.
Dr. Sinclair: He's, he's, he's laying his soul out for you and leaves it with the pianist to, to [00:22:00] communicate that it's a thrilling piece, and it's a deeply human statement. It's a deeply human musical statement.
So.
I can't thank you enough for taking the time to talk to us and any last word you have for the audience.
Dr. Kim: come hear us 'cause it will be magical.
Dr. Sinclair: . We will give it our, better than college try. This is gonna be fabulous. I'm looking forward to it. So very much so. Thank you, good people for joining us today. You know, the power of music belongs to each of you, so please come and hear this performance. Go to the Bach Festival florida.org website, get your tickets.
Coming here to this magnificent pianist hearing her play one of the most important pieces of music in the piano repertoire. Thank you so very much. Until next time.