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The REALTORS® Association of Edmonton (RAE), founded in 1927, is a professional association of real estate brokers and associates in the Greater Edmonton Area and beyond.
Welcome to the RAEdio Podcast brought to you by RAE, the Realtors Association of Edmonton. So that's the RAE in our radio. We deliver easy to understand market insights, some homeowner tips, perspectives from industry experts so that you can feel informed and empowered wherever you are in your home ownership journey because better decisions start with better information. If you're gonna talk about real estate in Edmonton, you really need to talk to the builders. Whether it's infill or greenfield building, it's an important part of the growth of our city.
Mark:Nicholas Carels is vice president of Street Side Developments and Broadview Homes and joins us on the podcast. Hello, Nick.
Nick:Hey, Mark. Great to be here.
Mark:So tell us a little bit about your background, how you got into the home building world, and how long you've been doing it.
Nick:Sure. I mean, it's quite by accident. Happened to go to a wedding when I was in my early twenties, sat at a table with a gentleman who used to sit in the chair that I'm sitting in today. He was starting to flirt with the idea of retirement and said, you you gotta come work in real estate. You'd love the industry.
Nick:I flew up to Edmonton, toured around some sites with him. I was hooked in the first hour, and here I am eighteen years later loving what I do. So, you go to a wedding, you end up with a new career.
Mark:Well, wait a minute. What were you doing before? Were you connected at all?
Nick:No. Not at all. I was in the hospitality business. I mean, it's it's a people business, and, I mean, as as real estate is as well, but it's no. It was it was rather unexpected.
Nick:I always loved homes and home building, but, yeah, it just popped up almost out of nowhere, and, you know, you say yes to something and be amazed where it takes you, so here I am.
Mark:Well, I'm sure you had a a steep learning curve, and then the folks who are listening today, we're gonna hopefully bring them along on that journey. So what are the some of the things you learned in the early going about home building and about development?
Nick:I mean, I've I've had some incredible mentors and teachers here at Qualico. You know, it's a 75 year old company, and there was a lot of folks that have been around the office for twenty, thirty, forty years, and I had a chance to learn from from some of the greats. You know, it's it's actually a beautifully simple business in some ways. You only need three things. You need land, you need money, and you need great people.
Nick:And and after that, you can create some fantastic homes. So after that, I mean, all of the basics are much the same. You know, the way we've built a home hasn't changed a whole bunch over the last number of years, but the finer details and the pieces of it have have changed a ton. And, you know, and it, much like hospitality, it's a people business. You come to learn of what people want to have in their home.
Nick:It's a huge responsibility creating a space that someone lives and raises their family in. So pay attention to what people want, what people need, and you end up creating homes that, you know, that get you to where we've been over the last few years.
Mark:Now for someone who's approaching building a home, I mean, I I think it would be very daunting. I mean, it's the biggest investment of most people's lives, right, when you when you buy a home. And then when you build one, you've gotta make, it seems like a thousand decisions. I'm sure there may be a thousand and one. So when you first talk to somebody about that process, where where do you start, and where do you go?
Nick:I mean, it generally starts with, you know, our sales folks, and often the realtor that the client is working with, and it's it's kinda like a first date. You know, you're getting to know them, what they're all about, what they're hoping to find, you know, what are they hoping to not find, just as important, what experiences, what areas of town, you know, what matters to them. And after that, what degree can we craft the home around what they're looking for, or if their timeline's short, which it often is, you know, whatever we already have that best fits what they're searching for. And it's yeah. There's a there's a thousand moving pieces, but there's also a thousand different people that are involved in building any one home.
Nick:So we're we're sort of the the hub of a bunch of different experts that that really bring the home together, bring it to life. So we got we got a number of great partners that that help make it all possible as well.
Mark:So what should buyers understand about timelines, expectations, and, you know, decision making when you purchase a new build? Because, I mean, there's a lot of decisions, as we already said, that have to be made.
Nick:Absolutely. You know, it's a it's a journey when you're building from from scratch all the way through. I'd say more and more of our buyers are leaning on the homes that we've already created. So we got a wonderful team of designers that spend a lot of time getting to know, you know, buyers in Edmonton and what they're hoping to find. And, generally, a lot of folks are on a timeline where they need to move into a house in two or three months.
Nick:So, you know, the the process is a little less daunting to move through an entire build, but sometimes the selection is. You know? So we're out there making sure that the various pieces of the homes that we're putting together, are what the market is looking for, whether it's style, size, budget. And after that, our buyers often come along and put some finishing touches on them. But usually, that first leg of the race, you know, how big is the home, what style, how's the parking work, the bedroom count, we've worked out a lot of those details so that our buyers can come add their special little touch to it, and then make it theirs.
Nick:So it we we try to make it as as simple as possible and align with everyone's timeline and budget, which are usually the big two.
Mark:How have buyer priorities changed over the last few years when it comes to, say, I don't know, special features, how much space people want, you know, the layout functionality? There's there's all kinds of things that go into that.
Nick:Oh, a ton. You know, that's actually one of the more interesting parts of our business, I'd say. When I started in this, you know, as a early twenties, you know, many moons ago now, I was amazed when I came to Edmonton and started looking at homes. How many folks valued price per square foot? They wanted a really big house.
Nick:Features mattered less. It could be carpet wall to wall, but we had these young couples with no kids moving into 2,800 square feet because they just they wanted a big house. It always seemed odd. You know, I I grew up in a family of seven and nine hundred square feet, and I couldn't understand why these couples who were never home, their idea of excitement was being away from their home for the weekend, would invest into that kind of space, when when it didn't seem to make a lot of sense. What's been interesting over the last few years is, and maybe it's thanks to Pinterest or Houzz or one of these other apps, you know, folks are far more focused on the look of their home, the style of their home, the features that they can point to that are uniquely theirs, and less festive about size, which is actually quite a bit of fun.
Nick:We can create different styles of homes knowing it's not all about space. And from there, again, it's all about look and finish, and we get to have quite a bit of fun with our our sales leaders and our design team putting together them some spaces that that are pretty incredible.
Mark:So have have a lot of those new homes then come down in size? Because I I'm the same as you. You know, there was, you know, five kids in our family, so seven people in the house. It was 1,100 square feet. It was a bungalow.
Mark:It was typical what you might see. It was a golden home, which a lot of people in Evansville remember what that is. I so, you know, when I saw people yeah. Same thing. 2,500 square feet.
Mark:I'm like, what do you need all that room for? So has the average come down, or or is there now?
Nick:I'd say absolutely. I'd say it's come down a lot, and certainly the products we focused have have come down a lot, you know, but but things have it's not the same 900 square foot house that it used to be. You know, there used to be seven of us fighting for one bathroom. Maybe it was the same in your house. So the house is smaller, but there's more bathrooms.
Nick:You know, the the parts that that matter to folks have changed a great deal. You know, again, family size, how families spend their time, that's changed a lot. So the washroom count has gone up. Perhaps the kitchen space has come down. Families with these active lifestyles, individual singles, you know, they spend more time away from home often than than in it.
Nick:So, again, it has to look a certain way, function a certain way, but it doesn't need to be that size. So, yeah, our average size, I'd say, has almost been cut in half from when I started in the industry. But the style, we haven't built a house with anything but quartz countertops in in I bet seven or eight years. It just it just doesn't exist anymore. It's it's all about lipstick now, less about size.
Mark:And I I mean, obviously, size comes into it too when it comes to cost. Right? I mean, if you're talking about cost per square foot, you're gonna put out hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy a house. So, I mean, you know that's gonna happen. But a difference between, say, a 1,400 square foot house and a 2,800 square foot house, it's not half the price, but I would think it's probably considerably less.
Nick:It it makes a huge difference. Yeah. And it's it's the price of the home is one thing. The price of a lot is a big component as well. So in a house, it's roughly split three different ways, roughly evenly.
Nick:So the lot is about a third of the cost, materials are about a third of the cost, and labor's about a third of the cost. So when we go to a smaller size, we're using less land, we're using less materials, and the labor component is is still similar. But there's a ton of other benefits too. You know, we're getting more density on our streets, which creates generally a a healthier and more economically prosperous city. You know, we're getting more density within our newer communities.
Nick:They're more environmentally friendly homes because they use less materials to construct, you know, less utilities to maintain. So, you know, a smaller appropriately sized, really, house with the right finishes has loads of benefits beyond the actual folks just just living in the home.
Mark:Now, mentioned that, you know, you're with Streetside Developments and Broadview Homes. What what are the two companies? How are they complementary, and what different things do they do?
Nick:Sure. So Streetside is purely multifamily. And by multifamily, I mean, any home that's attached to another home. Could be side by side, up and down, back to back. So anything that's multifamily, more than one home under one roof.
Nick:And in that brand, we really have a a huge focus on on affordability. You know, how do we make sure that we're bringing forward homes that the average Edmontonian can purchase and move into? And that's one of the great things about the Edmonton market is it's real. You know, normal folks with normal jobs can buy a normal house. It's not like other markets we watch and say, wow.
Nick:This you know, owning a home is purely a dream here. So StreetSide really leans into that. How do we make sure that we're bringing forward the the right homes that provide options for the folks that are living in Edmonton, whether they're renting or owning? Broadview has a bit of a different spin on it. So Broadview is strictly in the single family space, and our goal there is to bring forward, you know, production volume to be sure that we're putting forward a great value of home, but it's gonna have a flare and a style that's akin to what you see in some infill neighborhoods.
Nick:So we're gonna take a little more and invest it on the exterior of the home, put some really neat features inside. So the goal is that it feels like a custom home, but it's built in a production manner. So, you know, it doesn't feel like any other home on the street. It's got some unique flair about it, but it's in a greenfield setting where there's a lot of folks looking to move their family.
Mark:So are you doing both greenfield and infill?
Nick:Absolutely. And our goal is, you know, rather aligned with the city of Edmonton's goal to have about half of the homes built in greenfield settings and half of the homes built in infill settings. So we have some great infill up, you know, positions such as Blatchford and Inglewood, Glenora, McEwen. So we got some great sites in infill. I should also mention, Mitchener Park, a great new subdivision by University of Alberta, being built on a ninety nine year lease, which is a a new thing in Edmonton or fairly new, I should say.
Nick:And then in the Greenfield areas, yeah, we're with a lot of Edmonton's great developers, including our own. Our sister company, Qualico, is a sizable developer. So we're we're roughly split fifty fifty between greenfield and infill, and it it helps us again provide the options we hope that people are looking for all the way through the region.
Mark:And when you look at the different places that you build in, the different parts of the city, you know, you might have a street side property in Keswick, and then you head over to Blatchford, you got diff something different. Will they feel the same, or are they completely different because of either the community or just because of other decisions that have been made?
Nick:That's a great question. It's it's actually a mix of the two. So our efficiency and how we achieve certain levels of affordability comes from scale and a certain level of planning and repetition, so we don't have to redo all of our plans and engineering and estimates on every single home. But then there is nuances from community to community, from plan to plan that make them special and unique. So some of the fundamentals will be the same, and then some of the finishing touches will really vary depending on on where the home is and who we believe the buyers to be in that particular area.
Nick:So it's a it's a mix of art and science. You know, there's a fair bit of math behind what we do, but then we are building for individual people, and they all have individual wishes. So it's our job to make it efficient while also making it personalized, which is a delicate dance, as you can imagine.
Mark:No. Absolutely. Now what about managing the neighbors? I mean, lots of us have had infill built either on our block or right next door to us, and that's become a really important thing, trying to manage the expectations of the people that are living next to these, that you're doing things on in the right way. Is that a big part of what you do?
Nick:It's certainly becoming a part of it. Yeah. Infill and Greenfield, that's one of the big differences between the two. You know, when you're building in Greenfield, everybody's the new kid on the block. Right?
Nick:Nobody's been there before. It's like starting from something from scratch. You're moving into a mature community, some folks have been there for decades, some of them for generations. And, you know, there's a there's a responsibility, that we carry as builders. Qualico's tagline is helping build better cities.
Nick:And I could tell you, working here for as long as I have, they they take that very seriously. So it's one of those do on to others situation. If you pull onto a street and you're about to build something in a 50 or 60 year old community, take a look around. Pretend that you're the one living next door. And and while it may not be be perfect or exactly what somebody wants, it is our responsibility to be to be courteous, to be considerate, to design something that fits in the community, and to do a good job.
Nick:You know, I think that's bare minimum that folks should should expect, you know, that we're putting up something that fits into the community and that folks are proud to have as as a neighbor and that it fits within the network of what's already there. So it's it does come with a great more deal of planning, time, responsibility, caring, but it's also important. You know, the the health of a lot of these communities do rely on repopulating some of these spaces for, you know, the shop owner down the street or the transit or the school. You know, we we do need to repopulate some of these communities that are that are losing just through the through the years, the number of folks that were living there. But we gotta do that in such a way that it that it doesn't change the entire flavor of the community at the same time.
Nick:So it's it's not an an easy thing to do, but it's a very important thing to do. So we we handle it with a great deal of care.
Mark:Now congratulations are in order as well because StreetSize just won the multifamily builder of the year award from Build Edmonton, and you've done that, I think, the third year in a row. So what are your thoughts on on the rise of multifamily housing? I mean, I walking through our neighborhood, you know, initially, there was the duplexes and then the four plexes. There's one on the corner, just around the corner from us, that has 10 units, actually. And to be honest, I think it actually looks pretty good.
Mark:Some that are like four units don't look as good as this one, so there's been some that have done well, and some not so much. So when people are thinking about home ownership, and they look at that, how has our has our thinking about that changed?
Nick:Well, I mean, multifamily is becoming a bigger and bigger part of of the Edmonton market, both because of of wants and needs. So as we touched on earlier, you know, there's there's not a lot of of individuals or couples or families that need the space that we were previously designing. So they're looking for spaces that suit their lifestyle, and often that's a smaller home that, you know, is is a multifamily home. There's also a requirement for it. You know, we hear a ton about affordability as a builder.
Nick:We feel that we have a major role to play in be sure you know, to ensure that that remains one of the benefits of of being in Edmonton. Multifamily is a great path towards that. And as you mentioned, Mark, you know, there's a lot of different shapes and sizes with multifamily, and that's I think that's probably what I love about it so much. You know, single family is a very interesting business as well, but generally, you get there, the land is there, the zoning is designed, the lot is is set up, and you you have to build a house that fits the lot. When you get into multifamily, it's not a blank slate, but just about.
Nick:You know, you you can build all sorts of shapes and sizes and really create the home that you think the market and the neighborhood needs. So I I think you'll see more and more multifamily, you know, both as Edmonton grows in terms of population, both out of want and out of necessity that it's gonna be on the rise. We've seen the trends over the years that single family still makes up, more than half of the market, but multifamily is is certainly on the rise both in condo and rental formats. So you'll see more of it, and and as you can imagine, I'm quite excited for that.
Mark:The other thing I see too is that often a multifamily unit gets built. And then with the garage, they'll have a suite or two that's included in the garage. Do you guys do that as well?
Nick:We've done a little bit of that. I'd say we're we're generally focused more on production style where it's you know, the the garage suites are I find them a fascinating product. They're a little more boutique because they all fit different garages, different sizes, different lots. But we're getting into, I'd say, more products that are that size. They may not be built over a garage necessarily, but we have four and five hundred square foot townhomes on the market because that's that's often the size and the features and finishes and location that folks are looking for.
Nick:But we are seeing, you know, lots of different solutions like that to make, better use of the land that's available to us, and it's it's often a great solution for folks that are looking for that mortgage helper or, you know, that next step for their adult child where they're maybe not in the house, but they're on the lot still. That's a great progression. So it's it's that type of product is you know, our our market needs more of that, you know, broadly categorized as missing middle housing. There's a lot of folks looking for that price point, style, size of home, and it's it's neat to see them popping up in Edmonton in different formats over the last few years.
Mark:Now I've heard that, you know, not all builders partner with realtors to sell their properties, and many have their own in house sales teams. But street side, you take somewhat of a different approach. I'm sure you have sales folks for sure, but you actively cultivate partnerships with realtors as part of your business model. Can you tell me about why you do that and the benefits of the approach for both the builder and the consumer?
Nick:Absolutely. Yes. The professional realtors in Edmonton, they're that's one of our most important relationships as a builder. And as I touched on earlier, you know, despite popular belief, builders don't really do a bunch of building. People ask me what I build.
Nick:I say spreadsheets. You know, everybody else does the real building, which is the truth of it, and that includes realtors. So, you know, oftentimes, as they should, you know, a lot of folks are in the market. They find their trusted realtor through the various sources to find one of the many, you know, great partners in in Edmonton. And the goal is, you know, for for the realtors, find me the best home.
Nick:And whether that's resale or new, we wanna be sure that our relationship with realtors is such that it's predictable, it's dependable, so that when that realtor is touring around the client that they have with them that day, they know they can count on us. They can count on our relationship that we're gonna deliver for their clients, and that there's a great deal of trust that, you know, they're almost while they don't work for us, of course, they are they're somewhat putting their stamp on our product when they bring a client to one of our homes. And and that's a partnership that, like you noted, Mark, we've been working on for a number of years. About three quarters of our our sales come in partnership with a realtor. That's not an accident.
Nick:That's something we celebrate, something we've been encouraging. Yes. We have an in house sales team that's wonderful as well. They're out there building this network and relationship with realtors. Again, all of our goals is to be sure that the client is finding the right home that they're looking for.
Nick:And by ensuring our relationship is strong and that we have that great connection, we we can all act with the client's best interest in mind. So it's been a it's been a wonderful partnership between ourselves and the realtors over the last number of years. So we we certainly appreciate working with them and wanna be sure we keep doing a good job for them and their
Mark:Yeah. And I you've covered a lot of what sort of makes that a good relationship, and we have a lot of realtors who obviously listen to our our podcast. It's all about them and for them. So when they're thinking about that, because a lot of them, you know I I bet there's a lot of realtors who may not have had a lot of experience dealing with a builder. So what what advice would you give them to, you know, foster that relationship and work well for their client?
Nick:Certainly. I'd I'd say, first, just like any home buyer, do your research. You know, I'm very proud to work for for the builder that I work for. Builders all make our own business decisions about how we wanna build our products, how we wanna interact with customers, realtors. So spend some time getting to know the various builders in Edmonton.
Nick:I'd say it would be a great first step before maybe you even come with in with a client. Take the time to understand us, how we do business, our products. Again, I could say for our team, any one of us are are happy to meet you at any time and just grab a coffee and kind of learn about one another. That's usually a great first step. After that, you know, it's our job to make sure that we have the right products for the client that you have out with you and and the home that they're searching for.
Nick:So keep an eye on what we have coming next and what's in the various communities, and stay in touch. You know, it's it's constantly changing. The products that we have available, where they're located, how they're finished, different pricing. You know, we're we have a lot of different moving pieces to keep up with, so keep an eye on what we're doing. Stay in touch, and we're we're happy to help when the when the right client comes along and you need us.
Mark:So, Nick, if I could ask you to look into your crystal ball, what kind of changes do you think are are coming in Edmonton that maybe we haven't seen here before that maybe other cities have, or is it more of the same? Do you think steady as she goes?
Nick:Sure. I think Edmonton's seen more change in the last two or three years than maybe we saw in the ten years before then, and I'd I'd expect that to keep going. You know, this idea of homes becoming, as we talked about earlier, flashier but smaller, I think that's gonna continue to go. I think we will see more infill. You know, different parts of Edmonton are maturing.
Nick:There's, you know, sizable opportunities for redevelopment in places like Blatchford or Exhibition Lands or Michener Park. So we're gonna see some new greenfield style communities closer to the infill, of the city. I think we're gonna see a lot of great new rental options as well. I know more folks are choosing to stay into rental housing for for various reasons, and I think we're gonna see different styles of rental, townhomes specifically. You know, usually when folks think rental, they think apartment.
Nick:There's a great deal of that product out there, but I think you'll see more family oriented rental products. If I had to look in that crystal ball, I think you'll see that coming. And the other thing on the horizon is there's some changes coming to the Canadian building code, and that's gonna trickle down into Alberta. And I think you'll see some changes in in the homes and how they're built. It may not be as obvious to the consumer on the street, but some of the details behind the walls and and how we go about building those houses, there'll be some changes in that respect as well.
Nick:So there's lots of things on the move. Housing, as we hear, you know, you can't turn all the news without hearing something about housing. Yeah. It's it's far more exciting than maybe it should be, but it it puts us at the center of a lot of conversation. So when anything is being talked about that much, you gotta know that there's continual things on on the move.
Mark:You know, one thing I've seen stories about is housing that's being built in factories, whether it's the walls or different pieces built off-site and then brought to the site. Do you guys do any of that at all, or do you use some of the techniques that might be used in that in your building?
Nick:Exactly that. Yeah. We use some of the techniques and some of the pieces. One of the interesting parts, I'll say, in in Canada right now is Edmonton is again, not in a biased fashion. I think the data would support this as well.
Nick:Edmonton is one of the great markets in Canada right now, But what that means is a lot of of labor to build homes is moving to the region, looking for work. Mhmm. So one of the the interesting parts that comes with that when labor becomes very available, the the reasons for doing it in a factory tend to drop. Know, some of the efficiencies and scale that you're looking for, well, we have lots of labor coming here now, that that's allows us to build our homes. The factory component provides other benefits, but it also introduces other costs, you know, to keep a factory going at an optimal level, to ship the product from the factory to site.
Nick:But we've employed some some new techniques. So one of the neat things about Qualico is we are also owners of about half of our trade and supply lineup that it takes to build a home. So for example, we just opened a new lumber yard in in Nisku, and they're putting together what they call quick frame packages. So we we kinda call it it's it's somewhat the IKEA approach of of putting together a wall where all of the pieces are cut, measured, and labeled, and then the framer rather on-site measuring and cutting everything, their job is just to put the wall together. So it's not manufactured off-site, but it's prepared off-site, shipped as a package, and it it expedites things when it gets to the field.
Nick:So there's different formats that we're working with to take advantage of, you know, off-site construction and some of the benefits that come from that while also managing some of the costs that come along with it to be sure that our homes remain affordable. So it's another one of those delicate dances of of getting the benefits of certain processes, but keeping some of the benefits of our existing ways of building.
Mark:Yeah. That sounds like like a great idea, and and you're right. Go a long way, especially when you extrapolate over the number of homes that you're building over a year. Nick, we love all the stuff you talked about today. Thanks for giving us so much insight into what's going on in Edmonton and the kind of building you're doing.
Mark:The last question we always ask folks on the podcast is this, what do you think makes a house a home?
Nick:Oh, that's a great question. I would say, for me, when I get home from work, I pull up to a house when I walk in, my family is what makes it feel like the home, and now for me, I got young kids, so that's the banging and crashing and yelling that comes with young children. So I'd say they're the ones that make it feel like a home. It's the, you know, we have to build a house that allows folks to turn it into a home. You know, it that it has the the various features that that work for their family because the, I think the home part really shows up when when the folks move into it.
Nick:Until then, it's our job to make sure that we've given them the the canvas to paint that picture of their life. So it's I'd say it's the people, and that's where all the interesting parts, you know, certainly in my home, and I imagine many others come from.
Mark:Well Nick, we appreciate you joining us and talking about this. Thanks very much.
Nick:Fantastic. Thanks for the time, Mark.