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Understanding the Book of Daniel is a thought-provoking podcast that explores one of the Bible’s most mysterious and powerful books. Each episode dives deep into the historical context, prophetic visions, and spiritual lessons found in Daniel—revealing how its timeless truths speak directly to the challenges we face in the modern world.
Whether you're navigating uncertainty, seeking courage in the face of adversity, or looking for spiritual insight in a chaotic age, this podcast connects ancient wisdom to contemporary life. Join us as we uncover how Daniel’s faith, resilience, and revelations offer guidance, hope, and clarity for today’s journey.
Peter Englert: Hi, my name's Peter Englert. I'm one of the pastors on staff at Browncroft Community Church, and we are hosting a podcast, understanding the Book of Daniel. One of my favorite parts of this podcast is to be able to interview scholars, pastors, leaders who, who understand and have spent a lot of time in this book today, I have the joy of having Wendy Witter here with us. She's written two commentaries in the Book of Daniel, the story of God commentary, and then the exegetical commentary on the Old Testament from Znderan. And she's just going to answer the easy question today of how do you understand narrative and Daniel? It's an easy question, right, Wendy?
Wendy Witter: Sure. We should be done in no time.
Peter Englert: Well, Wendy, before we get started and kind of diving into the text, why don't you give us a little bit of your background? And I think this is kind of a theme that people don't go looking for Daniel. Daniel finds them. So how did you get involved and passionate about this book?
Wendy Witter: Yeah, so I grew up in a fairly conservative Baptist church. wonderful upbringing, wonderful church, wonderful family. But it's. Its general approach to the Book of Daniel was either the really great stories at the beginning, but all the stuff at the end was primarily important for how we think about the end times. And so for charting end times events. And it just seemed to me that things were always changing. current events were changing, and so how we understood Daniel was changing. And, I'm perhaps being a little unfair, but that's at least what my impression was. So when I went to seminary and then on to graduate school, to study Old Testament, pretty near the bottom of the list of Old Testament books I wanted to spend a lot of time in was the Book of Daniel. it was either just above or just below the Book of Job. I don't quite remember the order, but it was really down there. And, when I was nearing the end of my graduate program, I was in need of some line items on my resume that, that would indicate I had some teaching experience other than elementary students, which is where I started my career a really long time ago. and I also needed some cash. So I was looking for some teaching opportunities, during our, J term or, January session for a couple of weeks. And so I contacted the dean of one of the schools I had gone to and asked him if he had any courses I could teach during January because I needed cash and I needed experience. And so he replied almost instantly and said, would you like to teach the Book of Daniel. And it was via email, so he couldn't see my real reaction. And I replied and I said, of course, I would love to. And so I had no choice. I had to study the Book of Daniel, to teach a graduate level course on it. And I was delighted and surprised to discover it was not at all what I had thought it was. and then, long story, I just got stuck there and I stayed there. and I just find it to be a really wonderfully applicable book to current events, but not in the way I had thought. it's very appropriate for how we think about living as Christians, wherever we might live in the world.
Peter Englert: So let me just ask you this and if you don't remember, it's okay. But when you started teaching that class, do you remember the passage, the verse or the story that might have like turned you? You're like, this is more fun than I thought. Or this is more applicable.
Wendy Witter: Yeah, I don't think there was a specific story or passage that did it. I think it was the collective experience of specifically the last part of the book. Just really seeing how those prophecies, which I know you're going to talk about with somebody else, which is perfectly fine with me, but how all of those visions were really tied to the first part of the book and the narrative that's there and understanding how you actually can't take the book apart. So I'm talking about the narrative chapters, as you've asked, and technically that's chapters one through six and somebody else is gonna talk about seven through 12, but you really can't separate them. chapter seven defies attempts to do that, and I can explain that more, as we go here. But you can't take the book apart. it is held together by a really wonderful chapter, that affects how you see the whole thing.
Peter Englert: That's really good. Don't worry if we jump into 7 through 12, we'll just say it's the Holy Spirit leading. But that's okay. let's kind of back up here because you know, I think a lot of our guests have kind of hinted to what you've said that this is one cohesive book, you can't just cut it in half. But I think something that would be really helpful to our listeners is how do we read, study and interpret narrative in the Bible? Specifically. Daniel, when you're encouraging someone to read and study it, how do you want them to approach it?
Wendy Witter: I say a couple things. First of all, no matter where you are in the Bible reading narrative, you have to remember that this is not a historical record accounting all the events that happened. This isn't like reading a history book. The authors and narrators have selected parts of the story, and they've left out an awful lot we would love to know, but they've selected certain parts and they've crafted those events and details into a theological message that is, they wanna teach us about God. and so narratives are really literary masterpieces that are theological and historical, but primarily their goal is to teach us about God. So you have to start there. one of the biggest mistakes I think we often make, at least in the Old Testament and New Testament too, but we go mining the text, the narratives for history, and we want to lay out what happened and when it happened and how it happened. And the narrators didn't care about that. that's not what they were focusing on. I mean, it's important to what they're saying, but not all of it is important to what they're saying. So I would start there. I think a second important thing to remember is that these stories, and I don't use that in a fictional way, but these stories, these narratives are, They're telling us about how people interacted with God. And they're not telling us necessarily how we should interact with God, but they're telling us how these people did. And the narrators are trying to show us. And sometimes it's more obvious than other times what was good about that and what was bad about that. And so they're describing things for us to see and observe and then see what we learn about God and what we learn about ourselves from that. But they're not prescribing how we should then behave. so that's for sure a caution. And I think another thing we forget to do sometimes is read narratives in the context of their larger book and in the context of the biblical story. So we want to pick the best stories. You know, the ones that. The ones that kids like to hear and the ones that are easy to tell and fun to tell. There's, nothing wrong with that, but we often will pick it out of a context and we tell the story and it's divorced from the entire point it was included in the first place. So that can all be a lot of work. but we really live in an age when there are so many resources available to help us think through the bigger picture.
Peter Englert: Yeah. You know, as you were talking, it had me think about two different areas of scripture where we apply this. I have not seen someone try to find a giant and throw their stone at them like David did, you know, and. But we jump to thinking that, you know, we, in a figurative way, we jump and say, how do we overcome our giants? And I know we're not talking about one Samuel, but, you know, is it about what David's doing, or is it about the fact of what God did, within this story? And then the second thing I'm thinking about, and I know I'm jumping to the New Testament, I hear a lot of maybe atheists and agnostic podcasters talk about the different Gospels, and I think about the book of Matthew. Like, the book of Matthew is very clear. They do narrative where Jesus is healing and Jesus is, engaging the Pharisees, and then there's a teaching block. And so even what you're saying about it being theological, if you're trying to chart the timeline, the author of Matthew seems to be after something else. Just the way that they theme it. And again, it sounds like that that's the same way with Daniel. It's not just, let's put this story here about Daniel and the lions, then. No, the author is trying to paint a picture of God for us to see.
Wendy Witter: Right, right. And it's hard for us because of time constraints and whatever, but we want to find things quickly. and it's hard to go back and put ourselves in an ancient culture and hear it how they would have heard it and understood what a particular author was saying to a particular audience. and that's an important part of reading narrative too.
Peter Englert: I love that. So let's kind of jump in a little bit because now that we've established, hey, how do we understand narrative? So big thing. Let's see God in it. First of all, I like what Tre Trumper Longman said in one of our other podcasts where he talked about the importance of the original readers read this inspired and influenced towards faith. When we read the narrative in Daniel 1 through 6, what are the things that you would love people to notice and understand as they begin to interpret and even apply it to their lives?
Wendy Witter: Yeah, I think one of the first things to recognize is that the Book of Daniel, the narrative is set in exile, and the very first chapter lays this out for us. First couple verses, Nebuchadnezzar comes and he torches the temple and destroys Jerusalem, and he takes these folks captive. so we're set as, an exilic people, a. Ah, people living. And I say we But I'm mean meeting the people in Daniel. So it's set in exile. These are people who are powerless. You know, they are not dominant in any way in their culture. but they are people who have think about what they've lost. So they have lost their temple, which is where their covenant God dwell among them. They have lost their king, a Davidic king, which was promised by God and this line was going to extend and he was going to bring them aside. So that's gone. They've lost their land, which was promised long before to Abraham and then ono them. So they've lost these pillars of their faith. They're gone. And so they are, we might assume, living in a bit of, existential or theological crisis. Are we still God's people? Does he still have a plan for us? it sure looks like he lost. Because in the ancient world, kings, fought in the name of their gods and they were representatives of their gods. So the king who won his God won, the king who lost his God was defeated. And, and that's laid out there for us in Daniel 1, Nebuchadnezzar, he besieges Jerusalem and he takes from the temple the sacred objects, the gold and the silver from the temple, the temple of Israel's God. And he takes it back, not to his palace, he takes it to the storehouse of his God. So he has transferred these sacred objects from Israel's God to his God, which is exactly what an ancient and near Eastern king would have done. But it's signifying, at least on the ground, on the headlines, that people would see it sure look like Israel's God had been defeated. So you have these people, these covenant people living in exile, asking the question, quite possibly, where's our God? He's been defeated. And what does that mean for us? And so that's the audience for the book of Daniel. these aren't a triumphant people. These are the bottom of the barrel, oppressed people, as the book goes on. So, I forgot what your original question was, but there you are. That's where the audience of Daniel was.
Peter Englert: Well, I think what we're talking about, structure wise, I just think it's beautiful what you brought up because, you know, we look at the book of Daniel and I think because we don't know what it's like to be exiled, we're not thinking, I lost my temple, I lost my home, I lost the land that God promised. And I love the tension that you're bringing up. And it, it's. Does God even Care if God said that we were going to be victorious. If God said this, we're sure surely not feeling it. So, I think that that's really, really powerful. You know, so when I talked with you about in a pre interview, I asked you, you know, who's your favorite character? And it was interesting. You said, well, I kind of have to pick Daniel. But then you said Nebuchadnezzar. And what I'd love for you to talk about because so much of the first six chapters is actually structured by the reins of these non Jewish Gentile, and we'll talk about the complexity, almost non God fearing kings. And that goes along with what you said about the Israelite kings and the Judean kings is that they were God fe supposedly God fearing. They weren't all but like God had set this up. But the structure of this book, one of the threads is these Gentile kings and Nebuchadnezzar dominates that. So talk a little bit about why Nebuchadnezzar is such a dynamic, an interesting character to those first six chapters.
Wendy Witter: Yeah. And let me back up just a little bit. So this is written to people whose God appears to have been defeated. And I would argue that part of the point of the entire book is to demonstrate that God's kingdom and God's kingdom alone is eternal. So they have lost their earthly kingdom and now they're living under Gentile kings one after the other. Right. Their kingdoms don't last either. And as you go through the prophecies at the end of the book, you're gonna see kingdoms fall. but the enduring theme of this book is that God's kingdom alone endures forever and he is supreme and sovereign over all human kings and all gods. So part of what's going on in the Book of Daniel, especially these interactions with Nebuchadnezzar, I think is, is God is showing this Gentile king, arguably the most famous, one of the most powerful kings of the ancient world. And in the biblical story, he's the king of Babylon. And the theme of Babylon in the Bible, I mean Babylon is like representative of all that's evil. So here we have the king, the most powerful king of this nation that represents all that's evil in the Bible. and he's the one who's featured in the Book of Daniel. And in each chapter God is teaching Nebuchadnezzar. It's this education process. So the first chapter introduces him. Chapter two is where Nebuchadnezzar has his troubling dream that he can't remember. And he lashes out in his experts and threatens to kill them all because they can't tell him his dream. And Daniel comes, and Daniel's the one with the wisdom of the gods to tell him what his dream is and what it means. So in that narrative, God is showcasing before Nebuchadnezzar where true wisdom is found. It's not found in all his experts and his Babylonian gods. It's found in the God of Israel, the God of these exiles. And then in chapter three. chapter three is such a fabulous chapter. And you have to read it aloud to get the full effect. And you have to read it in a more wooden translation. so the new American standard or the English standard probably does a pretty good job, King James, because they're not going to take out the repetition that's there and they're not going to try to smooth it over. And it was meant to be read aloud and it's meant to entertain M. So Nebuchadnezzar throughout that chapter. It's, the image which Nebuchadnezar the king set up. the image which Nebuchadnezar the king set up. And it's just laughable. Read it aloud. It's so fun. And it's meant to be that way because it's meant to put fun at this king. And this king in chapter three, he's trying to showcase his power. And the challenge that he gives to shatterach me, Shach and Abednego is, who's the God who can rescue you from my hand? Not who's the God who can rescue you from my God's hand, but from my hand. I am so powerful that I'm more powerful than any other God that's out there. So in that narrative, the God of Israel is showcasing his power. Who's the God with power? Not Nebuchadnezzar'gods not Nebuchadnezzar. It's God of Israel. Chapter four. Nebuchadnezzar is humbled. And, so this is also part of his education. and this humbling of Nebuchadnezzar, it happens at the peak of his career. The text is clear about that. He's walking on the roof of his palace looking at Babylon. Great. How great is Babylon that I've made? and God judges him for his pride and for his pride, but also his failure to acknowledge who gave him his power. And that's repeated several times in the chapter. Nebuchadnezzar failed to acknowledge, that God was the one who gave him his dominion. so at the end of the chapter, which is the last time Nebuchadnezzar speaks and is officially present in the book, he confesses, he acknowledges that Israel's God is the one with all the dominion, power and authority, and he's the God who gave Nebuchadnezzar his authority. And Nebuchadnezzar leaves the book. So here we have this quintessential king, this paradigm of a Gentile king, the worst of them, right? He's king of Babylon. And by the time he leaves the Book of Daniel, he is acknowledging the sovereignty of the God of Israel. And that's what God is asking of Gentile kings. In many ways, Daniel has a good relationship with Nebuchadnezzar. But in chapter four, he sounds more like a Hebrew prophet when he says to Nebuchadnezzar, repent of what you've done. You have oppressed your people. You have not cared for them. repent and maybe God will spare you. And God doesn't spare him because he doesn't repent, presumably. and then by the end of the chapter, he has, and he's acknowledging who God is. So he leaves. And chapter five brings us Belshazar, who is his successor. And he's not his biological son. The chapter talks about father's son, but we're speaking in terms of ancient nor eastern successors. But it does that because it wants you to compare these two. It wants you to remember how Nebuchadnezzar ended and then where this Belshazzar character is. So Belshazzar handwriting on the wall. Belshazzar, is a Gentile king who thumbs his nose at God. He shakes his fist at God, he engages in sacrilegious activity with the sacred vessels that Nebuchadnezzar had brought from the temple in Jerusalem to his own God's temple. and Belshazzar becomes the pattern for what Gentile kings shouldn't be and how they should not respond. He's not teachable. He doesn't learn from Nebuchadnezzar, and every king that follows asideip from Darius. But in the second half of the book, it is worse than Belshazzar, and we get to the New Testament and you're still seeing Belshazzar exponentially demonstrated. Again, I've lost your question.
Peter Englert: No, no, no, no. I love the way you talked about it because again, I think one of the features that we miss in the Book of Daniel because of the two famous stories of Daniel and the Lion's Den and also, Shadch, Meshach and Abedndigo is we miss that. There's four chapters on Nebuchadnezzar. if you and I were writing the Bible, I don't think that we'd spend that much time on a king that's not Jewish, a king that's not necessarily God fearing until the end. so one of the things I kind of want to come to because you said this so beautifully, like chapter three with that famous story and I have a seven year old and a four year old, so I'm thinking Rackshack and Benny from Veggie Talales. We read this story as this epic stand up for God faith. But you actually use the word comedy. U. tell us a little bit more about that because I think that will help us understand what the original readers were hearing. And you also said to read it out loud. But why did you use the word comedy?
Wendy Witter: I don't say comedy to the exclusion of importance or significance or the value of Shadach Me, Shak and Bene goes, witness. But again, remember who your audience is. These are oppressed people. and the sing song rhythm of this chapter, it's just fun. So maybe comedy isn't overstaying, but it's fun, it's entertaining. unlike the other chapters which are great stories, but there's something about chapter three that just, makes you smile when you read it out loud. Ah, so Shadrach, Meshach and Abedne go. Of course their testimony matters. They are not necessarily the focus of chapter three. I would argue it's Nebuchadnezzar again. And God of course. But God's showing Nebuchadnezzar who's powerful. But Nebuchadnezzar is presented in that chapter in really a funny way. you. It's a debate, you know, who's hotter, the king or the furnace? Because each one keeps getting hotter the way Nebuchadnezzar is described. when I first started really studying the chapter, the image that came in my head, which this is probably not going to resonate with half the people or more listening to this, but there's a 1970s Christmas special, the Year Without a Santa Claus. And it's, you know those little Marion, not marionette, but I forget the maker of them, but they did the year without of Santa Claus and Rudolph and all those classics. Anyway, Heat Miser and Snow Miser are part of this story and one rules the Southern Hemisphere. And one rules the northern hemisphere. And Heat Miser has this flaming red hair and when he gets mad, his face gets all red. And if you've never seen it, go Google Heat Mizer. And there's a fantastic song that goes with it. But that's who I see in my head when I read Nebuchadnezzar in chapter three. just how flaming mad he is. and then how hot the furnace is and how he is just he's exaggerated in so many ways. Just this crazy, unhinged king. and then you have Shadrach, Mesh and Beneo, who really aren't developed in the story, know, they just are there and they speak as one. It's never Shadrach or Meshach or Bene, all three of them, representing in some ways the Jewish people, I think. but they just give their response to the king. And there's a whole lot of scholarly debate about exactly what their response was. But in the end, what it came down to is they were going to worship their God no matter what. They were not going to worship any other God no matter what it cost. and that's a powerful statement, of course.
Peter Englert: well, and what I love about that is. And again, neither you or me minimizing what Shadrach, Meshach, Nbendeo did. But I think it's important, we miss the sarcasm of Jesus in the Gospels. We miss maybe just the humor or the things. For you, it might be Heat Miser. As you were talking, I was thinking of anger from inside out. How anger flies up there. But let me kind of jump here because I think as people read the Book of Daniel, the two sections actually give us two reasons to really apply it to today. And we're trying to wrestle with it. Number one, what do we do with an over political or overpower, hungry context. Number two, what do we feel about the Apocalypse and the end of the world and the crisis around us? And what I want to focus on though is every once in a while, some Christian will point out that an individual leader, political leader is a Nebuchadnezzar. And I just be curious, as someone that studies Nebuchadnezzar, especially the fact that for at least three of the chapters is, you know, heat Miser, anger, power hungry, actually killing people towards the end, that it's repentant. What do you hear with that today when we try to compare someone to Nebuchadnezzar? And what do you think as a scholar knowing his story versus the leaders of Today.
Wendy Witter: Well, I'm going to speak more broadly first about the book of Daniel and the kings represented in it. So, in the way that Daniel is structured as a narrative and with the second half of the book, it's this chiasm, which, just means it's stories that mirror each other. And it's this whole block of chapters from two to seven that, they mirror each other. So chapter two is this dream of. That pertains to four kingdoms. Chapter seven is the same sort of thing. Chapter three is Shadrach, Meshach and Beneneale. You have faithful Jews facing death for their faithfulness. Opposite that, you have Daniel in chapter six facing death for his faithfulness. At the center of that, you have chapters four and five. You have Nebuchadnezzar, a proud king who's humbled. And then you have Belshazzar, another proud king who's humbled. All of that is setting up this relationship between divine sovereignty and human sovereignty. How do human kings respond to the divine king? And in the book of Daniel, we see Nebuchadnezzar first. He's the first one we see, and he gets the most coverage. How does he respond to the God of Israel? Well, first he torches his temple and takes people captive. but he ends up exalting some exiles while they're captive in his court. he comes unhinged. And I'm not defending Nebuchadnezzar in any way, shape or form. He was an awful, brutal king. but the way the story leaves him is he at least. At the very least, he acknowledges that his sovereignty came from God. and that's what a Gentile king ought to do, at the very least. Because someday Paul tells us, everybody's going to do that. Everybody's going to acknowledge that Jesus Christ is king, that he is lord of all. every knee will bow. Nebuchadnezzar does it. Now, to what extent, I don't want to try to speculate, but he does acknowledge that he is not God. and then we get Belshazzar. And let me back up to Nebuchadnezzar. So Nebuchadnezzar, he's kind of hostile toward the Jews, but then he softens a little bit, and he actually seems to have a soft spot for Daniel. So you have these different dynamics in the relationships between the exiles and these kings. Belshazzar, Daniel has no time for. He doesn't wanna talk to him. He doesn't wanna. Doesn't want to listen. He doesn't even offer him a chance to repent. You're like, what? How could a prophet not offer a chance to repent? But there's something about the dynamics of Belshazzar. He's unteachable, he is thumbing his nose at God. He didn't follow the example that God actually gave him to teach him. and Belshazzar doesn't repent. He's not given the chance to, and he's destroyed. And then you have Darius, and Darius is Daniel's friend. and yet he gets somehow conned into this thing where Daniel ends up in a lot of trouble. Darius is probably more weak than anything. But my point here is that you have these different kings and each of them creates a different environment for God's people living there. So it can be hostility, it be, they're amicable, you know, don't have any problem with what Daniel's doing. Oh, but wait, politically this is'this doesn't work for me. and then you have Belshazzar, who apparently disdained Daniel altogether. So you have different kinds of Gentile kings. We live under different kinds of rulers. the point really isn't what kind of ruler is it. The point is that our allegiance is to God first. So it doesn't matter who the Gentile ruler is, whether he's like Nebuchadnezzar, whether he's like Darius, whether he's like Belshazzar. At the end of the day, what matters for me as a follower of Jesus Christ is that that's where my allegiance is. That's the kingdom that will endure and last forever. All of these kings and rulers, whatever they're like, they are accountable to God. And the book of Daniel makes it pretty clear that they will answer to God someday. and my job is to pray for them. That's what Daniel did. to obey, when it can be obeyed within God's constraints, within God's good life giving law, but not really to follow them. I don't follow a Gentile king, I follow Jesus. King Jesus, I love that.
Peter Englert: And one of the things that's kind of becoming clear, this is why the book goes together. Those three kings die, the three kings that we keep coming back to. And at the end of Daniel they do, the vision of know the kingdoms that fall. And there's debate on who the last kingdom is. But I think just in the broader big picture of these narratives and how the first six chapters connect with seven through 12, you know, there's a very Clear line that human leaders are not eternal. They will pass away, kingdoms will pass away. But then we get to King Jesus in the New Testament, and that's what the power is, is that, hey, this is how my kingdom operates. This is how I live. And it. I just love the threads that you're making as people read this. It's not as disconnected, and it's also. It's really pushing us to the king in the kingdom that will eternally exist forever. That even goes to Revelation.
Wendy Witter: Yeah, yeah. And the book of Daniel for sure, is intending to show the rise and fall of human kings and kingdoms. This one commentator calls it this march of history. You know, they rise and they fall. They rise and they fall. They rise and they fall. And Daniel 2 says that God is the one who takes them up and brings them down. Takes them up and brings them down. So, yeah, there's this march of history, but there's somebody directing that march, and it's the. Of Israel, it's God. so again, I come back to Daniels about God's kingdom is the only one that will endure, and he is the only king, King Jesus, and the only king that will endure.
Peter Englert: This conversation'been wonderful. one of the questions I asked you was, what question do you get most often from students? So, I'm going to ask it to you, and you can have fun with it. But, hey, where's Daniel with Shadrach, Meshach and Abedigo?
Wendy Witter: I have no idea. He's not there. And in my opinion, the narrator doesn't care. It's not part of what he's trying to accomplish. So I don't really have to care either. some people will say he was on Persian business somewhere. not Persian. Babylonian business would have been away in Babylonian business. I don't know. He's not there. He's not in the story. He's not part of the narrator's concern. The narrator, for whatever reason, in that chapter, is focused on Shadch, Meshach, and Abednego.
Peter Englert: Wow.
Wendy Witter: So I don't have to worry about Daniel?
Peter Englert: Well, no, I'm glad we're talking about that, because I think lot lots of times we're concerned about the questions we're asking today, and not that they don't matter, but we need to focus on what the original readers have. And I think that that's what this podcast episode has done. let me just have some fun with you. I rarely get to interview someone that's written two commentaries. so the exegetical in the story of God. You know, if. Take the two commentaries and just tell us. If you're like this, read this one. And if you're like this, read this one. Like, how would you recommend someone? And of course, I mean, I have both. I have them right here. But, based on where someone wants to grow with understanding the book of Daniel, which one would you recommend for who? and go from there.
Wendy Witter: Yeah. So the story of God is obviously a lot shorter. I wrote that one first, and they're both the page limits that I was given. So use this many words to do the whole thing. Okay. and the story of God is. I think it's appropriate for any church member, any Christian who wants to learn more and who's willing to do the work, to do it. it's intended to be written. I can't answer if it actually really is, but it's intended to be written in a very readable, accessible way. I, had a friend yesterday, tell me that he was going to recommend it to somebody who was just looking for a laypers's commentary on Daniel. He said, all right, thank you. I hope it works. I hope that's what it does for that person, because that's its goal. the exegetical commentary is twice as long. and if you know Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic, it's more helpful. But you don't have to know those to get a lot out of it. I, would say almost everything in the first one is in the second one. There's just twice as much. So if you're a pastor or you're interested specifically in the way the book is structured for meaning, then the exegetical one is the way to go, because it definitely is very interested in. Okay, how did the author of Daniel put this thing together for its meaning, to shape the meaning of it? Not just, okay, what does chapter mean? What does chapter? But how do all of these things fit together in a way that also communicates meaning?
Peter Englert: Now, you hinted at this before. you don't work at a seminary. But if people want to follow you or get some of your resources, what's the website, and the place that they can find you at?
Wendy Witter: Yeah, my website is wendywitter.com do so my just name. I don't do much there, but it is there, and it's available. Books are on Amazon, of course, and from anywhere else you buy books, you can get them ordered. that's probably where you find me.
Peter Englert: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Wendy. I hope you all listeners enjoyed just getting some of the meaning. And I hope this inspired you to study it. Thank you so much for joining us.