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Ohio's public schools serve 1.6 million children - 90 percent of students in the state! What happens in the classroom has impacts far beyond the walls of the K-12 school building or higher ed lecture hall. So, on behalf of the 115,000 members of the Ohio Education Association, we're taking a deeper dive into some of the many education issues facing our students, educators, and communities. Originally launched in 2021 as Education Matters, Public Education Matters is your source for insightful conversations with the people who shape the education landscape in Ohio. Have a topic you'd like to hear about on Public Education Matters? Email us at educationmatters@ohea.org
Judge Marilyn Zayas 0:00
This election for Ohio is about accountability and balance. It is our time to really take back some sort of logic and common sense, so that we actually have balance and accountability, and then we can move things forward for everyone.
Various student voices 0:24
Public education matters. Public education matters. Public education matters.
Jeff Wensing 0:30
This is Public Education Matters, brought to you by the Ohio Education Association.
Katie Olmsted 0:42
Thanks for joining us for this edition of Public Education Matters. I'm Katie Olmsted, and I'm part of the communications team for the Ohio Education Association and the 115,000 public school educators OEA represents around the state. Educators who know the results of this election will have a lasting impact, for better or for worse on their colleagues, their students, and their public school communities for years or decades to come. And we're not just talking about the races for legislature or for governor. Ohio voters are deciding two Ohio Supreme Court races in this election. OEA members have recommended Justice Jennifer Brunner for re-election and Applet Court Judge Marilyn Zayas in these races because they know these Supreme Court elections always have been and always will be hugely consequential for our public schools, students, and educators. Remember the DeRolph decision? That was the state supreme court declaring Ohio's public school funding system unconstitutional. Something it's done four times now over the years. Remember the fight over the last legislative district maps and gerrymandering? That also went through the state supreme court, and you can bet the vouchers hurt Ohio lawsuit will end up in the Ohio Supreme Court before too long too, and after you listen to this episode, you should definitely go back to season six, episode 24 of this podcast for a deeper dive into the legal arguments being made in that case and where things stand now. But first, you need to hear this conversation. We sat down with Judge Marilyn Zayas a couple weeks ago to learn more about her journey to the highest court in our state and her independent and impartial approach to the cases she's heard, and while it would be inappropriate to ask her about specific cases she would hear if elected to the state supreme court, we were able to ask her about what Ohio's public school educators need to know about why she's the best person for this job. Take a listen.
Judge Marilyn Zayas 2:51
I'm Judge Marilyn Zayas. I currently serve on Ohio's Court of Appeals on the First District, which is a court that's directly below the state supreme court, and I am on the ballot in the entire state, all 88 counties for the Ohio Supreme Court.
Katie Olmsted 3:08
And you are the OEA member recommended candidate in that race, one of them. For people who are listening to this podcast, we would love to learn more about you. So you've been described as the embodiment of the American dream, what can you tell me about your story, your personal story, and also how that influences your professional work?
Judge Marilyn Zayas 3:30
Well, my story really begins with my mom. My mom is someone that she actually was orphaned. She was raised by family. Her whole lineage-they're all farmers. They mostly worked other people's lands, and my mom never really got past seventh grade, but she had very strong values, and she really did believe in the American dream. She believed that hard work, you know, with integrity and never giving up, and education that anything is possible. So my mom really leans into education. She believed that that was the passport for all of her children's future, and really instilled in us that look, this is this was her saying. Her saying was the only inheritance that I have for you is an education, and that's really what I really got me to where I am because I grew up in a neighborhood that was nicknamed Drug City USA. So you know, my brothers and I, there wasn't much that was expected from us, but we all got our higher education. My oldest brother is a career police officer. He was he was he was you know severely injured when a drunk driver just plowed into the back of his cruiser. He also has 9/11 lung disease, so he actually was he came to help, and he was there from the 12th the day directly after, all the way to the 24th. He was there for 12 days at at Ground Zero, and then my other two brothers are teachers, so we we're all in public service, and I always jokingly say that I'm the smart one and the one that came to Ohio almost 39 years ago because I really wanted I wanted a different environment. Ohio is like my dream place. It's not only my adopted home. It's like my. It's exactly what I always dreamt of as a kid of like the kind of area, the kind of community that I would love to be my home, and now it's been my home for nearly 39 years.
Katie Olmsted 5:28
And now you have the opportunity, both on the appellate court and and also pretty soon on the state supreme court, to really shape the Ohio community with some of the decisions that you will be, that you are part of, have been part of, and will be part of in your new role.
Judge Marilyn Zayas 5:46
And I'll tell you, Katie, I'm really proud of that because when I came into this, I've been on the Court of Appeals again. You know, one of the like directly below the Supreme Court for 10 years now, and I've I've actually decided over 2000 appealed cases throughout Ohio because I've also sat on four other appellate courts by special what's called special designation. I've been repeatedly to the Ohio Supreme Court to replace a recused justice. Last year alone, the Chief Justice selected me because she gets to decide who she's going to bring in, she selected Judge Zayas three times within a 40-day window to replace a recused justice, which is like in and of itself unprecedented history-making, and I'm really proud of that because starting as a political outsider, and I see myself still as a political outsider, to be running for the Supreme Court, you know that little Marilyn growing up in Drug City. Never would I have dreamt that. And even as a young woman, even when my my first career was actually technology, I came to work for Procter & Gamble. I was an IT manager, so being at Procter & Gamble, and then going to law school and being an attorney, this was something I never really dreamed of because you know coming where I come from, just honestly getting through college and finding my way for Ohio, that was that was like winning the lottery for me. So for me, it's just it's it's a tremendous honor, you know, that people have this kind of trust of, like she is an excellent judge, and this is what we want on the Ohio Supreme Court, you know, and to get the sort of nod from the OEA and other organizations again, it's just, it's amazing. It's I'm I'm very honored by it.
Katie Olmsted 7:40
And I want to talk about why these races are so important to OEA members, public school educators. But before that, I want to circle back to something you mentioned there about you know basically the dream and and how you are helping other people live their dream too. What can you tell me about the Educating Tomorrow's Leaders Program?
Judge Marilyn Zayas 8:02
The roots of that was my looking into a picture of myself at seven years old, and this was immediately after the election, and recognizing that little Marilyn never dreamt this big. And my immediate next thought was, "Oh, how many other children in Ohio are there like I was that perhaps are self-limiting or you know don't see themselves in certain positions simply because of where they're growing up or because of who their family is or because they don't see people that they relate to in those positions and that that was the catalyst for educating tomorrow's leaders. So I was elected in November 2016. Took my seat in December, and by April of 17, I was hosting my first class, which was a public school class who engaged in this program, and it's a it's a it's a program that teaches students about the courts, all levels from the trial court to the court of appeals to the highest court, the statewide supreme court. Exposes them and teaches them about also different legal related careers. So not everyone is you know not being an attorney is not for everyone, but you know what? You can be a social worker. You could be a police officer as an attorney. You could be a prosecutor. So we talk about all the different roles, and then I also share with them my personal story because I want them to. I don't want students to think like Judge Zayas is some sort of elite, special kind of person, and we could never do what Judge Zayas is doing. I want them to be the opposite. To say, you know, Judge Zayas is just like us. She's a human being. You know, she's had her challenges. She's had to overcome them. Sometimes, you know. Sometimes you get lucky. Sometimes you don't. Right. But if you don't give up and if you get your education, it's. It's the most amazing thing because I feel like when we work with purpose, that when we least expect it, God puts onto our path exactly who and what we need. Sometimes we didn't even ask for it, and there it appears. It's an experience that we all experience, I think, as human beings. So I share that with them as well because I really want them to. I really do want them to dream big, and I want them to never give up. And we really need that right now. You know, we are like when I when I came to Ohio. Ohio was one of the most economically vibrant states where people like me were choosing Ohio to be our home, and Ohio is growing, and now Ohio is shrinking, and our children are choosing to make somewhere else their home, and our economy keeps shrinking. I mean, to the point I saw the statistic recently. In the last 10 years, we've had a 25% increase of people that are living paycheck to paycheck.
Katie Olmsted 10:59
Yeah.
Judge Marilyn Zayas 11:00
So I think it's really important for our, you know, we say that we that our children are our future. So for me, it's like like I mean it because people invested in me, and particularly teachers invested in me. I had some excellent teachers. That's what got me to where I am. You know, I had teachers. I remember my fourth grade teacher. I think about her a lot because a lot of the way that I see the world and I engage with people come from her as a role model. So she was teaching this, you know, inner city class that again, Drug City USA. You know, folks on the outside would say these kids are not going to do much with her with their lives. She treated all of us like we were special, and we were equally special. And it was a very academic class because we were all like the high achievers. So she gave us like very challenging material, but she all she looked at us like you're gonna be great, you're gonna do great. We just knew it by the way that she looked and and engaged with us, and that's really powerful. When somebody sees you a certain way, and you're a child, and then you can see yourself through their eyes, then you realize, like, oh, you know, like, I can do this. I can do this. So all of this was like, you know, it's sort of like who I am, who I've become and what the goal is with this program. I'll tell you, Katie. I've hosted over 2000 students across Ohio through this program now, so it's been it's been very powerful. But it's also honestly, I also learn from them. It's amazing how smart, how intelligent, incredibly intelligent, our young people are, and every time I host one of these programs, I learn something from them.
Katie Olmsted 12:50
I think that gives you the taste of what so many of our Ohio public school educators-that's what keeps them going every day. They are invested in the children as our future. They believe in every child's potential and want to support every child so that they can be their very best, whatever that looks like. And they need to be paying attention to the state supreme court race. Why should they be paying attention? And what are some of the issues that you think the supreme court will be hearing that will affect our educators and our students?
Judge Marilyn Zayas 13:20
Absolutely. So, when it comes to courts, anything, any issue that you can think of that happens in life can come to the court and find its way to the Supreme Court.
Katie Olmsted 13:20
Yeah.
Judge Marilyn Zayas 13:20
Anything that you can think of, whether it's the rights of a parent or a grandparent, right? Whether it's when an insurance company denies coverage. Whether they properly deny coverage based on the law and based on the language of the insurance contract. Okay, that's an everyday issue. I've seen several of those in my court, and some of them make their way to the Supreme Court. Whether it's the role or responsibility of different people in government, sovereign immunity-that's an issue that comes up all the time in the courts. And this is beyond police officers. Sovereign immunity for police officers-I don't even think I've seen that case. But it's for other government officials all the time, all the time. Just anything that you can think of. But but there are also some interesting cases that will only come to the Supreme Court.
Katie Olmsted 14:26
Okay.
Judge Marilyn Zayas 14:27
So I'll get like I'll give you one that was very recent that had to do with data centers, and it was a it's an area that's very close to Columbus in Pickaway, Ohio, where the community is is going through the process of making the determination of whether they want a data center or not, which is a very important determination for that community to make, and you know, and we would hope that they would be able to be provided the opportunity and the information so that they can make that decision for themselves. And what happened was was the local. Legislative body, they fast tracked a law, and they took it upon themselves and decided to preemptively approve the data center and take that opportunity away from the community to be able to make that decision for themselves. So the use of this emergency fast track provision that's there for laws was challenged, and that went straight to the Supreme Court. That was bypassed by every court, and those kinds of cases-they're called mandamus cases-go straight to the Supreme Court, and only the Supreme Court will decide. Okay, and I actually agree with the ultimate determination, which was that that was not a proper use of an emergency provision to pass legislation. So it brought it back to the community, and now they'll go through their process and they'll make the determination. So that's an example of something that goes straight. Here's an example that applies to all of us. We all pay electric bills. We all pay utility bills, right? And it seems like they keep going up and they keep going up. Well, I will tell you that any challenge with regard to utility bills, those cases go directly to the Supreme Court. They bypass every court, and those cases go directly to the Supreme Court. And because I know that, I will tell you that I have taken $0 from anything that has to do with energy, anything that has to do with utility. The other candidate can't say the same thing. Okay, they've 1000s of dollars. I have $0 because I think it's not only important to, you know, to say you're independent. I think it's important to be independent and to ensure that voters can really trust you for being independent. So I rather raise less money than to raise money that is going to taint the integrity of of what I do in any way in the perception of the public. So while it may not taint how I do things because I'm known to be a very independent judge and to just call the balls and the strikes, so it's not going to change who I am. This is who I am now. I'm not going to change that. But I want the public to have the confidence that what I've what I've been doing for 10 years that I will continue to do that at the Supreme Court, and of course, a case that we're very apprised of that has come to the Supreme Court is funding. So the Supreme Court, and even the court that I sit, we review challenges on whether laws are constitutional or unconstitutional, right? And in that case, that has to do with the funding of public schools, whether that's constitutional or unconstitutional. Katie, it's I. I think it's. I can carefully use the word inevitable that school funding will find its way back to the Supreme Court. As I travel throughout the state, one of the top three issues is school funding, and that's because there are counties where, while some of the funding is diverted from the public schools into the vouchers, they don't have an alternative. There's not an alternative school to send the kids. So this is something that we're going to have to really face at some point because we certainly want all children to have a quality education, and it's understandable that parents would want the best education that's you know that they can have for their children. So we're going to have to figure out what this really means for the state of Ohio, and how do we make this make sense so that you know so that all children can have the best education possible and a quality education because that's really what's good for all of us. Again, our children are our future, and you know we we invest in them through our tax dollars, and parents invest in them every single day, and so we need to figure out you know what's going to be best, and most likely that challenge will be under the lens of not only the federal constitution but the state constitution, because the state constitution has a whole provision that discusses the the funding of schools and the responsibility of the state government when it comes to schools, so it's there is a lawsuit.
Katie Olmsted 19:43
Yeah, there's a lawsuit making its way through the courts right now that hits it right on the head on that one.
Judge Marilyn Zayas 19:48
Yeah, yeah.
Katie Olmsted 19:48
Without getting into the specifics of that case, given that you may someday soon hear that case, what can you tell me about your overall judicial philosophy?
Judge Marilyn Zayas 19:58
You know, and I will tell you my judicial philosophy is actually rooted in my experience as a child. It developed like a strong sense of who I am and how I see the world. That has easily carried over into my judicial philosophy. So, growing up where I grew up, you know, there are there you meet wonderful people like my my fourth grade teacher that really have a strong impact and that you you know that really teach you that we really are all equal, that we all are the same. You know that that no one's more than and no one's less than. And I really, my core believes that. I don't think I'm better than anyone else. I don't think that I should get special treatment. And I and I and I believe like Ohio believes that hard work, you know, and integrity is is what we should be judged on. It's on our merit, right? So think about the law. The law is the great equalizer. When people come to court, what do they want? What's fairness? To be treated the same. And how do you treat people the same? You apply the law. You follow the law, and you follow it equally to everyone. And you look at the facts in the case. You don't add facts in the case. You don't delete facts in the case. If you don't like the facts, these are the facts in the case. You apply those facts, you know. And when it's a constitutional challenge, you look at the Constitution and you apply the Constitution. So it's it's real simple. It's follow the law as written, make the determinations on the law, the facts, the Constitution, not politics.
Katie Olmsted 21:30
One of my favorite quotes, John Adams, when he was defending the British people in the Boston Massacre: "Facts are stubborn things", and ain't that the truth? And so important that the facts are the stubborn things. The facts don't change.
Judge Marilyn Zayas 21:45
Yes, I mean we should be making determinations on facts, on you know on credible, reliable facts. You know now sometimes facts can be challenged as to whether they're credible or reliable, particularly nowadays. You know that's that is that is an issue that I think is going to inevitably makes its way to the Supreme Court because we we're always reviewing as appellate courts whether evidence was properly brought into the case and whether it should have been heard by the jury or whether it should have been excluded from the jury hearing it. Well, with the advent of AI and everything, it's really challenging the reliability of electronically had facts as to whether they are credible, whether they're reliable, whether they're accurate. So those sorts of you know evidentiary issues of how to handle evidence, I think inevitably that'll also make its way to the Supreme Court, which is really interesting because I think I have such a unique background to be even where I am now, and then to be at the Supreme Court. I mean, you know, I worked in corporate America not as an attorney, right? I worked in corporate America in technology as an IT manager. When have you ever heard that, right? And I believe it's a great asset that I know the importance of safe communities because I lived that. I lived in a neighborhood that went from a very nice working class neighborhood to a neighborhood that was absolutely like overnight devastated by the '70s heroin epidemic, and it was like a switch got moved from it being one thing that was lovely to something else that was completely different. My mother's one of her best friends, her son died at the age of 14, with a heroin needle in his arm.
Katie Olmsted 23:43
Oh, that's terrible!
Judge Marilyn Zayas 23:44
In a park in my neighborhood, ironically, I got a text on Sunday from her daughter that that friend passed away. So she's on my mind, right?
Katie Olmsted 23:54
Yeah.
Judge Marilyn Zayas 23:54
And it's funny because I was thinking now she's back reunited with her son after so many years. But it's you know it was a you know my my campaign isn't about political slogans, my campaign is about my real judicial record. It's about who I truly am, who I've always been. It's about the trust that I have from attorneys that are across the political spectrum. I think it's very unusual to have a judge that has attorneys. I, you know, I have attorneys that voted for a different president than I did, and they are in my kitchen cabinet, and they're like, "We need you, you on the Supreme Court, Marilyn, because I've read your decisions, and you just call it the way it is. You don't bring your politics in. You don't put it. Bring in your your opinion in. You call it the way it is, and that's what I want. When I go to court, I know that the law isn't always going to be on my side. Sure, everybody likes to win, but you know it's it's it's not good to win if you're winning the wrong way because now you're hurting the system, right, and you're hurting other people. So it's been it's been a real blessing, but I also understand that it is a very real responsibility. This work and making these decisions and ensuring that the best decisions are being made not only for today but for all the tomorrows and for everyone. That it's not just favoring one community or anything like that; that it's for the best for our entire state.
Katie Olmsted 25:27
And that crosses political lines. It's not partisan to want what's best for the entire state. Unfortunately, a few years ago, they changed the lawmakers changed the rules, so you do have to have a party affiliation next to your name on the ballot, what should the people who are listening to this podcast know about what that really means as they are casting their votes?
Judge Marilyn Zayas 25:52
Absolutely, this is the first thing that I would say to voters: don't vote for judges by default. Don't just say they are they they are blue or they're a red, and this is the way I'm going to vote. Vote for them on their records. Vote for them on their real records, because courts are not red or blue, just like schools aren't red or blue. They're really about you. They're really about all of us, and that's why it's so important to just simply follow the law. When I follow the law, I'm giving people equal treatment, which is exactly what I yearned for as a child: equal opportunity, equal treatment. That is my best way to do exactly what I wanted as a child, but then to bring it every single day when I go to court-that's what matters.
Katie Olmsted 26:46
And our hope is that you will be going to court in the Ohio Supreme Court someday very soon. Judge Marilyn Zias, OEA member recommended candidate for Ohio Supreme Court. Thank you for sitting down with us.
Judge Marilyn Zayas 26:59
Thank you, Katie. Thank you for doing this for providing information to your members. This is really powerful, and I really appreciate it because, look, I'm going to piggyback on the last question you asked me about the party endorsement.
Katie Olmsted 27:14
Yeah.
Judge Marilyn Zayas 27:14
I have always believed that judges shouldn't even have a party endorsement. They shouldn't again because courts aren't about red or blue. So why are we endorsing candidates on red or blue? I will tell you that as of April of this year, our Ohio Supreme Court, the same court that I'm running for, the same court that I hope people will trust me to be that independent judge decided to further politicize our courts because of a decision they made in April, where they decided that judges can now endorse politicians. This is a not known piece of information. It hasn't been really, you know, but I'd like to talk about it because our Supreme Court now says that judges can endorse politicians beginning in April, effective immediately. Now, one of the justices wrote separately, and that's Justice Fisher. And I agree with him. If I was on the court, I would have joined him. And what he said is this undermines the confidence. It undermines the integrity, and this is completely opposite to well-established law that's established by the federal courts. So the Supreme Court made this determination, looking at the federal Constitution and interpreted the federal Constitution opposite to well-established federal courts interpreting the same provision of the federal Constitution. I find that very uncomfortable because does that mean that the Supreme Court are they are higher authority on the federal Constitution than federal courts?
Katie Olmsted 28:52
It really calls into question the judgment of some people on the court and shines a spotlight on how important it is to have the right people in that job.
Judge Marilyn Zayas 29:02
About independence. So, us being politicians is not a way to build trust with the people that we serve. That our job is to simply call the balls and the strikes. To simply call it by following the law based on the facts and based on the Constitution, that undermines the confidence, the trust, the integrity, and the independence of our courts.
Katie Olmsted 29:31
We need to send you to the court and turn that around. Judge Zayas, thank you so much.
Judge Marilyn Zayas 29:36
Well, thank you, Katie. This has been awesome, awesome. I hope you have a wonderful afternoon.
Katie Olmsted 29:42
Our thanks again to Judge Marilyn Zayas for sitting down with us for this episode. Voting is underway right now in Ohio, and you can cast your ballot in person at your county board of election site, absentee by mail, or on Election Day, November 3rd, in person at your local poll. What you can't do is afford to sit this one out. Our students are counting on us to elect the pro public education leaders we need at every level to make sure we can deliver on the promise of a great public education for every child, no exceptions. OEA members can find a link to the list of the pro-public education, pro-labor candidates their fellow OEA members have recommended for election in the show notes for this episode, and we'll be back here with another new episode next Thursday as we continue our conversations with the people who are shaping the public education landscape in our state every day, because in Ohio, public education matters.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai