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Join James Petrossi in 'Leave the Feed: 30 Days of Disconnect' as he interviews creators and mental health advocates about their journeys, the digital quagmire, and tips to create a healthier relationship with social media.
[00:00:00]
James Petrossi: Hello and welcome to Leave the Feed. Today is day four, an act of courage. Such an important day, and such an important guest with us day too. Shira Lazar, welcome to the show. So grateful to have you with us.
Shira Lazar: I'm grateful to be here. Thank you for all the work you're doing as well.
James Petrossi: Now let's talk about your journey in digital culture. Like what sparked this? What are some of the milestones? Where has this taken you, and why has mental health been essential as part of that journey?
Shira Lazar: So this is where my TED talk starts. No. So, you know, digital culture, I started really in it professionally at least 20 years ago, and I was always an early adopter. tech. Thanks to my dad. I was always that friend that had [00:01:00] stuff and was playing around with stuff before a lot of my friends. But I guess in terms of my work, I was aware in college of a lot of these live streaming networks popping up and I wanted to be a broadcaster like Ryan Seacrest, Barbara Walters, Oprah Winfrey, when I came to LA. would get close to those job, well, not that level, but you know, close to maybe being on MTV or E Entertainment. then I wouldn't get the job. And as I was building out my sizzle reel, the highlight reel as they call it, because, you know, social media wasn't around to really showcase your work, meeting a lot of people doing internet video at the time, like web, video, pre YouTube. I started getting hired by a lot of these websites and apps to do their video. because I'd grown up with entrepreneurs and also played with tech and was curious about it, I feel like it was a really good fit, like. They loved my [00:02:00] enthusiasm. I knew how to work with them, and it was like a match made in heaven. And what started out as a jumping off point, you know, that would maybe bring me to TV became my career. You know, that whole world wasn't just. Yeah, the, the beginnings, it wasn't like working in the mail room and then, you know, you go to TV necessarily and you have the job of your dreams like that became it. And so I became the go-to person in LA for online video and then rode that wave. And I still had TV gigs here and there. Like I, I was at headline news, I was a talking head on different networks. I. Pre-launching my company, watch Trending, worked with CBS News, but that was actually when I started really covering the beat of digital culture establishing that as a beat because previously people were more of like a tech reporter. And I think now fast forward [00:03:00] years or so, it's normal. I think most people get when they hear, oh, you, you cover digital culture trends, you're a. You know, a web culture, social media trends, reporter, they get it. And then there's the tech reporter at the time, like no one really understood that. So yeah, that that led me to being at CBS News, being the first blogger.
Blogger there. And then launching what's trending from there. And then what's trending. My company, which is a digital media brand and publisher, we went off on our own and then continued to grow over the past decade. We launched in 2011, so it's been a wild ride, that's really what led me on my own mental health journey I had a lot of very high highs and very low lows with my company. Being very public facing and some things that happened that were where I was really thrown onto the bus publicly [00:04:00] felt a lot of pain because of it. And, and only realized, I think later how much it had impacted me. And it had been a bit of an adult trauma moment that I'd never had dealt with.
And so. Me not dealing with it started to come out in other ways through my life and my behavior. And at a certain point I realized I needed to support myself and I needed help. And so, yeah, I, I just started my own journey of self-care and, personal growth and also working with mental health professionals and. You know, also seeing some of my peers going through their own experiences. I think just over the years realized how much of a support system was lacking in this space, a new industry and everything. And so last year established creators for mental health and we started it as an event, and then it's now evolved more into an initiative and an organization.
James Petrossi: So interesting with. [00:05:00] Things that impact our mental health. We all go through these phases of like denial. And denial isn't like there's nothing wrong with me. Denial comes out in different ways, like our behaviors and how we're acting, our habits. And you know, this is all about courage and the act of courage of saying, I need some help.
Something is off here, which is really hard for a lot of people, especially those in the creator economy now, because you're right, it is new. They're dealing with challenges that a lot of other professionals. Haven't dealt with in the past and they're a lot different. So talk about the study that you recently did at Creators for Mental Health.
'cause I found it super insightful about some of the challenges that creators are facing today.
Shira Lazar: Yeah, no, I appreciate it. What happened was through doing these events, bringing creators together and the industry together to talk about tools around mental health and leaving people with something that they could actually use in their lives, and then also just connecting with each other and community. A lot of questions that would come up. [00:06:00] Especially from brands and people I was trying to get to support what we were doing in sponsor was, you know, what do creators actually want? How do you know, and what's, what's success to you? What do you actually wanna do at this? That would be helpful based on what you're hearing. And of course, we are hearing things through the events, through talking to people. it was very clear that we needed to get more data around this. And so I entered my research era a year ago decided we were gonna do this creator mental health study. There had been a few studies out there, but not very comprehensive and not in including, I would say, experts to really make sure that the research was. Being done properly. so, yeah, we went on this journey and I, I, I had a research partner, Lu Iani Insights and Strategy, who had worked on this big [00:07:00] loneliness study. I brought in advisors from Harvard and UCLA and the a Coma Project. It was a sponsor who. Also helps youth of color with their mental health too.
So really bringing together a diverse group of people that really understand the space. And we surveyed. 542 creators, which is also important because you need over 500 to be taken seriously. So it was a lot, and it was a quantitative and qualitative study. So the qualitative was we sat down, the researchers sat down with some creators and to talk to them and have the conversations and that informs the questions.
And then we do the survey and the results weren't necessarily surprising. Some of them, I would say the one most surprising. Stat that came out of it was that one in 10 creators say they experienced suicidal ideation and it [00:08:00] is in connection with their work. And that is actually double what the stat is from the National Institute of Mental Health.
So I think that was the most alarming and concerning one. And then on the flip side, it was that nine out of 10 actually don't have support that is specific to being a content creator. So that could mean. Mental, a mental health professional that understands their work and how to support them. It could mean access to other types of resources, wellness, mental health coaching, et cetera.
And so you have extremes. You have one. You know a, a number that shows that this industry is dealing with a bit of a crisis. And then on the other side of it, they're lacking support. So what are we gonna do about it? And then of course there were the other things of. 62% of folks said they were burnt out sometimes or often as a [00:09:00] result of their content creation. the top was financial instability as a result of making content, impacting stress, obsession over content performance, low self-worth, imposter syndrome. Yeah, so a a lot of interesting stats there. And also surprising one, because, you know, we're in la we attend a lot of creator events. There's a lot out there, but actually there, there's a big number of creators that are not engaged in content creator communities. And so that also for me shows that there's a gap and an opportunity there to support folks as well. IRL.
James Petrossi: Yeah, it was very interesting to see that about community, and we've heard that on this podcast as well. A lot of creators saying, I don't actually think I have any close friends, although I seem to know all of these people. And the illusion of community as it translates to [00:10:00] self-worth and feel good inside, as opposed to chasing the metrics.
And although they might be doing great things in the digital space, it's obviously a big challenge for them.
Shira Lazar: Yeah, this idea and quotes came out of, I have so many followers, but I still feel alone. Right. Or I know. So, you know, there's so many people online in terms of visibility or I'm connected to, but yet I don't feel like I am connected to anyone. That kind of sentiment comes out a lot, and so, you know, I think it goes back to. What the industry brands and platforms can do, but also some big awareness we need to have as individuals of how to take care of ourselves. And it might mean, of course, connecting into community with fellow creators who get what we're going through and mental health professional support, but also realizing the importance I would say, of community offline that might be in this industry, but also might not be. That really [00:11:00] understand you and get you to what you do. And also not connected to what we do because so much of our identity is entangled. This is just my, from my personal experience, was really important for me to continue to work on Shira. Outside of Shira from what's trending or Shira as a content creator, and I still deal with that, right?
The the ego connection to it where when someone finds out my following or someone sees what I do, the validation that comes from that feels good. But then also trying to reckon with the idea that if it goes away overnight, that I still need to love myself and I deserve to,
James Petrossi: Yeah. Right,
Shira Lazar: Yeah. Right.
James Petrossi: right. I thought it was also interesting just how. Transactional. The business has become, you know, I worked in marketing for years and there was a point in time when brands really cherished bringing influencers under their wing and having them and creating content, and they were more longstanding [00:12:00] relationships.
But what are you seeing in terms of like the brand relationships and how they're treating creators today and what they can do to improve upon that?
Shira Lazar: Yeah, I mean, from the data, it does say a lot around in income, income stability, options within platforms, and transparency and brand pricing, financial and contracting standards for content creators. So money issues is really top of the list as it relates to stressors and things that would be able to support creators in their mental health. And then I would just say from my own personal experience. Being able to have conversations that it's not that it's transactional, like what you said, it's that it's, there's an understanding that we're having a conversation and I'm either gonna be honest up front, like we don't have budget right now, but I wanted to talk to you.
So when we do. But then it's clear that when we talk, I understand that your time and energy and platform is valuable and there's not gonna be [00:13:00] even, even a question of whether I'm going to say I have budget around it. Like I would never ask of you to do something for free, right? Like. I'll do maybe pro bono work for nonprofits sometimes, or if it's, you know, someone's a friend's company or something that I'm really just supporting.
It's very early stage. They've done something for me. I'm doing something for them. But to have people that you don't even know, strangers reach out to you who have a company and then expect that you're just going to do what you do for work for free is ridiculous. And then let alone it being. Any sort of brand that, you know, everyone else there that you're working with is being paid. It's just, it's mind blowing to me. So you know, we offered up. Some priorities in terms of key solutions in the study. Of course, I could just say what I think myself, but going back to the study we, yeah, it is greater pricing, transparency, financial and contracting standards. It's saying [00:14:00] that, you know, when I ask you to do X, it's clear that I will give y, this is not a debate. And I'm not gonna get weird. If you bring on your agent or a representation, I'm not gonna use it against you. I'm not gonna frustrated. This is the norm, And the more we make this into the norm, the more we don't we don't need a self-advocate. Advocating creates, for me at least, so much stress because you're constantly. almost you're explaining why you are valuable constantly and having to overexplain it. Right. And that gets, for me at least very tiring, and definitely leads to. You know, my own mental health issues and, and stressors. I, I think we just need to have that obvious thing where it's like, thank you for those ideas.
Let me go back see what budget I have in mind and I'll come back to you and let you know, like, [00:15:00] why do I need to mention that? It seems to be, I don't know if you feel this way, you know, as a creator, having been marketing where. I would say most, 75% of the time, at the end of a conversation, I need to be like, okay, so we talked about ideas.
What are next steps? Why don't you go back and see what kind of budget you have, what it's like always on me, I'm negotiating it against myself. Yeah,
James Petrossi: Right. Right. Very difficult. Now let's go back to self-worth and self-worth of creators. Today's all about an act of courage, and it's so interesting with mental health. I did a lot of work for a digital mental health company and they said 70% of people who schedule their first appointment to seek help don't come through the door.
And there's this feeling of, I might need help. But I'm sort of scared to walk over that line for one reason or another. What advice would you have to any creator that is just [00:16:00] feeling a little bit off based on your own experiences getting mental health, health and the rewards of walking through that door and, and following through on that?
Shira Lazar: I would say that you deserve to feel good it's possible. I think that when you feel like crap for long enough and things are happening in your life, which makes sense. Why you're feeling like that, right? You, it starts to be normalized and you just think like, well, this is it. This is status quo.
This is who I am, and I would invite you to challenge that. And it doesn't mean you need to shame yourself or what you're going through is bad, but this idea of like, but what if it can feel better? Maybe not all the time, but what if there's something else out there that you could feel that's possible for you and you really need to know that [00:17:00] you deserve that, that you are worthy of that? I think for me, I've never got diagnosed with depression necessarily, but like there was the point where I started to, I had this aha moment. Was because I was just crying every day. So maybe was always crying. I was just feeling like crap. And I remember telling my dad saying, you know, and, and I'm in this relationship, but all I do, I keep crying.
I can't stop crying all the time. And he goes, you, you need to deal with that. You know? But I think that I, I had a moment I said, I know I deserve, like, this is not why I am here. Like, I, I know there's something that I'm not seeing here. It's hard to see it when you're in it, when your brain, you know, your brain is telling you.
Otherwise. You have to realize like your brain is not, you know what you're thinking. Sometimes it is real, but it's not fully facts, right? Your brain will trick you into thinking things. Because also our brain [00:18:00] defaults to 85% negative thoughts, 95% on repeat. So it is a muscle and it's something we need to work on to make ourselves feel better.
So when you look at that, it's like you won't get abs, you won't get muscles if you don't work out. The same thing goes for your brain, including in a moment of crisis. So realize there's like you then there's your brain, and so it's like you gotta take your brain to the doctor. Because these are things, you know, again, you can't go, go through and deal with alone, especially when you've just gotten used to that and it's, hard to see, you know, the trees the forest or the forest from the trees.
You know that saying and it's okay. So I think for me, when I realized that, I was like, all right, I think I need help like this. This is too much for me to deal with alone. And I still have those moments. By the way, I have moments that trigger me and I find I'm starting to spiral and really overthink, not be present, feeling like really emotionally unregulated.[00:19:00]
And those are for me, the, awarenesses that I need help, this is my, I, I've lost, my nervous system has gone off on its own. And I need, I need support right now. that's when I reach out to my therapist. And that perspective helps because again, you're not gonna be able to see it when you're in it.
It's really challenging. And it's not just you. It's like this is a normal thing. So I don't know if that's helpful, like what you're going through is normal, but also you deserve better and there's something else out there, but it's gonna be hard for you to see it if you don't get support.
James Petrossi: Yeah. Professional support is essential, especially in this industry, but also the support of each other, and we talked about creator events and bringing creators together. How can creator connection offline evolve to help people feel more authentic connections with each other as opposed to maybe comparing.
[00:20:00] Content against one another, or you know, how do we make sure we create nurturing environments where we peel back the layers of the onion to get to like the core of each other and understand each other more and, and what we're going through.
Shira Lazar: I think that's why we have these creators for mental health events because there's a bit of this understanding. If you're in an event like that, you probably have similar values to me. Like there's a type of person that will go to an event that s says for creators in mental health, right? And then there's other people that if you're at a brand event or at a growth hacking event or. Any other thing where it's about more, you know, success and thumbnails and all this other stuff, like that's what people are gonna be talking about and that's okay. And maybe all these other issues will come up, but they might not. And so when, when that happens, you might feel, well this, this is not a safe environment to talk about these things, right? So find that community or space where it seems like they could be talking about these other things that you need help with and support with, but also. talking about other things [00:21:00] that are related to your values, right? Or experiences and again, creators for mental health. Our events are that we're having panels about lived experience and burnout and crisis and. Everyone's different mental health journeys, and so you inherently know, my hope is that it is a safe space for yours as well, whether it be what you're listening to and you have these aha moments where you realize, wow, what I'm going through. It's not unique necessarily. It's unique to you, but I'm not alone.
Other people are going through similar things, and then you get to talk to people around you and bring up those things too. Knowing that well. This is mental health. The bet, surprise, surprise. Like the, you know, or it's not surprising that we're gonna talk about this. I think that's really awesome about our events, to be honest.
Not to like promote, and, yeah, I think the, the more we talk about it, the more. [00:22:00] Though it's going to be normalized, hopefully, and destigmatized, and you'll be able to be in other types of rooms. And that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to be, you know, work with YouTube, work with platforms, work with other people that have events to say, like, have a panel about mental health and wellbeing.
Even if you're talking about. Strategy throughout the day, right? Like, let's establish something so people know that if they want to talk about this, there is a space to do it. And then let creators for mental health be there on site so they could come up to us separately to chat afterwards if they want that.
We wanna establish that. And so, you know, that's what we're trying to do. so that, you know, I just wanna let people know it's out there. We're also gonna be creating, hopefully, a virtual space in the new year and maybe monthly virtual meetups and connections. And then I wanna add is that we did establish in California specifically, so we're trying to grow nationally, but in California, if you are a creator and the, there is too [00:23:00] high barriers for access to therapy. It's too expensive, et cetera. We do offer sliding scale discounted therapy with or without insurance for content creators. Those that are making money. On digital social platforms, which can be a lot of different people. So it could be the creator, it could be the person behind the creator, like you are part of the system, And so it's called Creator Care. You can go to creator care.co get a 15 minute free consultation. So I just wanna offer that up, ensure that with everyone.
James Petrossi: I strongly encourage that too. There's, there's nothing wrong with reaching out for help. Now in terms of help, some people right now are going through a Leave the Feed 30 day challenge. This is day four. They've been really examining the relationship with social media thus far, understanding triggers, how it's affecting them, learning to become.
The observer of the reality, and pretty soon they're gonna be
Shira Lazar: gonna
James Petrossi: logging [00:24:00] off of their apps and going through a reconnection journey. What's your hope for those that are listening, that are willing to put their phone down and reconnect with themselves, other people, and the world around them, possibly for the first time in their lives, if not in years?
What is your words of encouragement? What is your hope for them?
Shira Lazar: You are so courageous and brave. I'm giving you your flowers. That is such a beautiful thing. What a gift to yourself. And when you gift yourself, you gift those around you, right? Just FYI. It's a domino effect. But the few times I have disconnected urban forest to been such beautiful moments and of reflection that have really supported me to understand myself better, my needs.
You get to listen to yourself and your higher self, whatever you believe in more, [00:25:00] and about if, if you wanna even be capitalistic in productivity and all that stuff, you actually, if, if we. Disconnected more and, and to reflect and listen to ourselves. We actually all would be, I think, more successful because one, we would be coming from a more intentional place that makes sense for ourselves.
We'd be happier, and then that, that creates a domino effect for how we treat others. So. there's just so much that you can get out of it, and I'm so excited to hear what you get out of your time with yourself. And again, screens, it's not just social media. Screens are known to impact our mental health, and so there's so many studies coming out of like when you put that aside, when you give yourself that boundary, that time off. It does wonders for your brain. They're even showing now dementia among younger people connected to screens. So you might be even making your brain [00:26:00] younger, saying. So I think we're gonna see more and more of that come out of how important that it is. It's like, you know, drinking water has a certain amount every day, or walking outside screen time will be part of that. So lots of great stuff that's gonna come out of it that you get to create too by disconnecting to reconnect.
James Petrossi: Wonderful. Thank you so much. This has been so insightful. Thank you for your vulnerability, your honesty, and your encouragement. You've been such a phenomenal guest. Really appreciate you and everything you're doing in your. Own business and at creators for mental health. Thank you so much.
Shira Lazar: I appreciate you. Thank you.