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Conversations about things that interest me… until they don’t. Because new = shiny ✨
Featuring cool people and unbridled banter.
Dive in. Jump out. Rinse. Repeat.
Erica Alshuler (00:00)
Welcome to another episode of Shiny for the Moment. I'm your host, Erica Hahn -Alsherler, which I've finally started saying on a regular basis. And today I'm joined by Courtney Chandler, who you've heard before, a lifelong friend, thanks to dance and summer French And she's here today because she spent the last two decades preaching mind -body connection to a group of people that need it a lot, tweens.
Katie (00:05)
Thank you.
you
Okay.
Erica Alshuler (00:28)
as a dance teacher, advocate, and thought leader at a middle she's seen the importance of learning to embrace your body even when you're feeling betrayed by it, AKA puberty for these kids. But as mothers, Courtney, I, and our guest, we know that this isn't the only time we feel out of sync with our bodies, postpartum, anyone. we've brought on a super special guest who started her business to help
Katie (01:01)
Hi, thank you.
Erica Alshuler (00:56)
out during such times. So welcome Dr. Katie Peters. You are the first doctor and maybe only doctor I'm having on here. I love this. I just realized that. She is the owner and founder of Beach Mama Wellness in Redondo Beach, on pelvic floor health for pre and postnatal women. But I am sure that your clientele extends beyond that benefits are
of course, she's my personal pelvic floor physical therapist who has transformed my physical wellbeing in many we will talk So let's get this started. Welcome to you First things first. So many people have never even heard of pelvic floor therapy and certainly can't picture the bowl -shaped muscle group nestled in between your hips that supports
Katie (01:26)
Thank
Erica Alshuler (01:46)
all of your organs above it. And that's what makes this kind of the perfect example of why I wanted to do this podcast is because I had never heard of it myself until a friend was laughing with me about the pelvic wand that you were having her use. We were laughing because it does in fact look like a dildo. Yes.
Katie (02:00)
Yeah, it does.
Erica Alshuler (02:08)
Mere days later, I was at my own ortho PT for chronic lower back pain and like old dance injuries my thankfully progressive up -to -date PT quickly identified that I could also benefit from pelvic floor physical therapy. I immediately got the referral from one friend for you, Katie. And then I didn't book it for months, which was not surprising. But in that span of time,
Katie (02:16)
Perfect.
Erica Alshuler (02:38)
started hearing success stories from my sister -in -law, a mom friend who was a doula, and a handful of other so in the span of a few months, I went from having never heard of it anyone who would listen to how obsessed I it and telling everyone about my new very intimate friend, Katie. Because if you haven't gathered by now, much of this physical therapy is done from.
Katie (03:02)
Hi.
Erica Alshuler (03:04)
the inside and the outside, but a lot of inside work. So with that, Katie, hi again. You were an orthopedic PT for a decade or more and own experience that brought your attention inside, right? Can you tell us about how you came to be in this industry?
Katie (03:23)
Yeah, was an ortho PT many years, which I loved and actually felt like I was was pretty good at it. But I had my own hip injury. And this was before ever having kids and I was a long distance runner and had surgery on my hip and my hip never got better. And so
super frustrating, obviously. And so finally, one of my co workers told me like, why don't you go to pelvic floor PT? And at this point, I still kind of thought in my head like, is like really weird. Why would anyone go to pelvic floor PT? When we were in school, there was like one weirdo in our class that was like, who wants to do pelvic floor? And she's the only one that raised her hand. And we're just like, that girl is so weird. So.
Erica Alshuler (04:01)
Heheheheh
Courtney Chandler (04:11)
Thank you.
Erica Alshuler (04:12)
So judgy.
Katie (04:12)
Anyway, so judgy, yes. Kind of weirdo wants to be pelvic floor PT. So back then in school, they didn't even teach you anything about pelvic floor. We had like one special lecture. went to pelvic floor PT, she worked from the inside out. And by the end of the session, squat was like, 100 times different. It was amazing.
Erica Alshuler (04:17)
Heheheheh
Katie (04:36)
kind of when I became a believer. Of course, then I started having my own babies firsthand saw the benefit pelvic floor PT during pregnancy and the difference it makes postpartum. when I started Beach Mama Wellness, I decided to like really narrow in my focus on pregnancy and postpartum.
Erica Alshuler (04:55)
That's awesome. would you say that the bulk of your clients right now and postpartum?
Katie (05:00)
I would say that probably like 40 % of my patients are pregnant, 40 % of my patients are postpartum in some degree. And that may be like 10 weeks postpartum, that may be 10 years postpartum, right? Like you never really stop being postpartum. But I also have plenty of women who are going through menopause or plenty of women who are trying to I think like a lot of people don't realize that pelvic floor exist without becoming pregnant.
And so many women that I talk to are like, well, sex is going to hurt ever since And so, yeah, I really get patients. I even have a few males on my schedule. anyone can have pelvic floor P2.
Erica Alshuler (05:32)
Wow.
Well, just imagine, use our imagination to understand how you might manipulate the pelvic floor via a man. Yes.
Katie (05:44)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah. There's only one hole to go in, so.
Erica Alshuler (05:53)
Their mouth, I know. Okay. Well, for example, we're looking to set her up with an appointment. And obviously, to your point, you're in postpartum to any degree, even postmenopause if you've had children, but to a generation of people maybe didn't get to benefit from this information as we learn more about the female body day by day. And
Katie (05:55)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (06:17)
she's been dealing with her chronic pain her whole life and maybe there's some relief to be had, you know, in addition to all the been given throughout her life.
Katie (06:26)
yeah, I get plenty of women who are, you know, 60, 70. And I'm like, how long have you been peeing your pants? Or how long has your back been hurting you? And I'm like, just since like my second child was born, like how long goes that? Like 40 years, that generation specifically has a really hard time.
coming to this type of appointment. But there is so much help to be made no matter you've had your symptoms.
Erica Alshuler (06:52)
wanna bring Courtney in for a second because are in the early stages of floor physical therapy journey, but you have had three children. And I a example to bring on for a listener who maybe put this, even if they have heard of it, put it in a category
someone who has a problem or I've never even considered physical therapy because I'm in great shape and whatnot. And been moving your whole life, you have connected with your body, stretching, yoga, Pilates, everything, right? Doing it all you teach it too, we think we must be doing as well as anyone could be doing, but A, we're missing this part of our body
can't really access or know how to or see. And might have just about this giant important muscle group our whole life. tell us about your experience so far with this and anything else that has come to mind while we introduced ourselves.
Courtney Chandler (07:51)
had never heard the term pelvic floor until I was giving birth to my first child. so proud of myself. I was like, I'm so active when I was pregnant with the first
I was teaching dance up until she was born. I was going to Pilates all the time. I was like going for runs until I was in my third all the things that I thought I was supposed to be doing and going to yoga classes and prenatal classes. But the prenatal classes were like at a workout studio where that wasn't their focus. And I remember, we'll get graphic for a second, but I remember like in the delivery room trying to deliver my first child and she was like to hear
Erica Alshuler (08:23)
Hmm.
a visual sign. Was that meaning she was?
Courtney Chandler (08:32)
yeah, a visual sign. The top of her head was coming out and the doctor kept being like, you need to relax your pelvic floor. And I was like, I don't understand what you're saying. And she just kept referring. She's like, when Pilates, like in your prenatal your pelvic floor. I still have no idea what you're talking about. Like I was so confused. And I like had the strong part down. Like I could push really strong.
Erica Alshuler (08:37)
Got it, okay.
Courtney Chandler (08:57)
but it wasn't effective because I never learned how to actually release my pelvic floor flash forward to then years later, me finding out that it's just always been very tight. so it wasn't until then that someone had talked about pelvic floor and she ended up being an emergency C -section because we never could get past that spot. And part of my theory, maybe she was going to be anyways, but I do think that tight pelvic floor that I didn't know how to
Katie (09:16)
Mm.
Courtney Chandler (09:23)
played a big role in then I had her and I had some like abdominal separation and different things. And again, I didn't know there was a therapist to help me with this, right? Because no one had talked to me about this. And so I just like went back to Pilates and went back to the things that I was doing before But what I realized after my third child was that I actually didn't know how to breathe
And even though I'd been now told about my pelvic floor and I knew that it existed and I could visualize it, I had no idea like what to actually do with it. And after childbirth the third time, I was like, okay, now it's time to like raise my hand and say, who can help me solve this? What I think is like a very tense pelvic floor situation.
Erica Alshuler (10:04)
You mentioned so many things that the three of us, you can't see us, are nodding, but that to someone who hasn't been to pelvic floor are probably new concepts and terms that we can have you expand on a little bit, Katie, because the first myth and one of the reasons I was so vocal about this practice when I discovered it and had those same aha moments you did, Courtney, was we knew about this area was about strengthening it with a key goal.
Katie (10:16)
Mm -hmm.
Erica Alshuler (10:30)
and kind of the Sex in the City era of be a good sexual partner by strengthening your, not pelvic floor, because we didn't know that term, but the area, your private everyone assumes that that's the problem. When first minute I walked in and learned, it is in fact largely the opposite for most people in that we have very tight muscles that we need to learn to release. So Katie, maybe share a little bit about what Courtney was talking about there.
Katie (10:32)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, unfortunately, a lot of women don't know anything about their pelvic floors. And we go into having a baby and that's a really, really common experience. Although I'm very impressed that your doctor would have told you to relax your pelvic floor during childbirth. Yeah, that's actually pretty impressive. when I'm working with pregnant women,
Erica Alshuler (11:12)
Good job, Doc.
Katie (11:19)
one of the biggest goals that we're trying to achieve is to like relax and lengthen those pelvic floor muscles because that really like allows baby to progress and it kind of is like opening the doors for your baby to come out if you will versus like really holding on to all this tension but finding that length and relaxation is really very foreign for most women and like
as vulgar as it sounds, it makes a world of a difference to learn how to like relax your pelvic floor with someone's finger inside of you. Like you can just get that input and really feel what it is to like drop it and breathe into it. And it's so related to your breath.
you know, I think that there's this big misconception, but you don't become weak, just because you're pregnant, you don't become weak.
just because you've had a baby. You don't become weak just because you're old all of a sudden. usually that these muscles are overactive and are actually compensating for weakness elsewhere. And so the pelvic floor is gripping on for dear life saying, I'll do the job for the core. I'll stabilize your pelvis. And that's when we start seeing that dysfunction. And so the urinary incontinence, that's so common. That painful inner core, that's so common.
Those are things that are caused by muscles being too tight and not being able to function properly. So really being able to learn that relaxation goes a long way in childbirth, but it also goes a long way all of the other pelvic floor symptoms go as well.
Erica Alshuler (12:47)
touched on so many things there. There's so many parts about this that are so fascinating, not only because they're new information to so many people, but because to your point and your first experience, one session or one mindset shift or a few at home easy exercises can make a world of a difference. first example that I had heard while I was waiting to actually book my
Katie (12:59)
Mm -hmm.
Erica Alshuler (13:10)
tailbone pain and went in and released or moved something, 70 % of the pain gone after one session and obviously continuing to restructure what was causing that in the first the procedure itself, I'd love to kind of talk about, you know, we joke that it's really intimate and it's inside. I know are sensitive to that and that have ways to make
the person listening thinking this is too much for them more comfortable. What would you say to that person?
Katie (13:39)
Yeah. So, I mean, the first thing that I would say to anyone who is like sitting there thinking like, man, I have all these issues, but there's no way I'm going to let someone go in my vagina. That is fine. Like you never have to do internal work. That is not mandatory to go to pelvic floor therapy. And there are still so many ways to improve things.
without actually doing that internal work. And plenty of my patients, like we're working our way up to it. Maybe the first five sessions, we're just working all externally before we ever go internal. And that is totally okay with me. I guarantee you'd be totally okay with wherever you
I think the other thing I would like to say to people who are listening is it really doesn't have to be this big awkward thing. I think a lot of envision the session in their head, like, you know, I'm just gonna inside of you staring at your vulva the entire session and just like talking right down to your vagina when
I enter a finger as slowly as we need to, I cover you back up and we are just like talking to each other the entire time, you know, and.
Erica Alshuler (14:48)
about interior design and shopping, which is what we do.
Katie (14:51)
That is, that's probably likely. You're probably negatively influencing my shopping habits. but it's super casual. And I will probably like talk to you about my kids and give you annoying advice about your kids. And we might stop and take some like really deep breaths and focus on that breath pattern. But I the biggest surprise lot of my patients is that actually it's like not awkward at all.
You know, we're just like literally shooting the shit the entire time.
Erica Alshuler (15:16)
Yeah. And this idea of breath keeps coming up. That was one of those, you know, somewhat quick learnings that I was able to take home with me. It might not be that quick for anybody. Courtney, have you, you mentioned as relearning how to breathe. What did you mean when you said that? Because I know what, how I relearned to breathe, but I'm wondering if we got the and experience.
Courtney Chandler (15:37)
I realized that I had been breathing shallow all along, which is kind of funny because my mom used to say that to me growing up, like you need to like breathe down into your core. And yet again, I had no idea how to do it. And I'd be like, yes, I think I'm doing it. And so one, I didn't know what was supposed to happen on an inhale and what was supposed to happen on an exhale.
actually had them inverted. And I think part of that was from doing things like yoga and stretching, it'd be like, okay, and now exhale and let everything go, right, as opposed to like, inhale is when you're going to expand everything and really let the air come in. And on the exhale is when everything's going to come up and engage. And I was doing the opposite. Like if I were to ever stop and think about my breathing, I was 100 % doing the opposite. I'd like,
Erica Alshuler (16:09)
Yes, yes.
Katie (16:13)
Mm -hmm.
Courtney Chandler (16:27)
exhale, be like, let it all out.
Erica Alshuler (16:30)
Me too, that's when the belly hangs out. video of my stomach, which no one really wants to see, but it was very helpful of me laughing, coughing, and then of course just doing regular breaths and watching, I remember this too, watching those abs pop up instead of pushing down. And I used to recall being in say cat cow position or on all fours in any,
Katie (16:37)
Hahaha!
huh.
Erica Alshuler (16:56)
occasion. I remember when I would look down, I thought it was really cool that when I flexed my abs, like this long line would protrude. And that is like not what's supposed to happen. I don't believe And same thing in Pilates, pull your abs into your spine. Well, I can visualize that but until that connection, maybe with the help of someone else's hand in the right place or you know, that feedback that we were talking about it and that video of seeing what it looks like and.
Katie (17:04)
Haha.
Courtney Chandler (17:04)
See you later.
Katie (17:11)
Mm -hmm.
Erica Alshuler (17:25)
learning that the word when you kind of like get punched in your lower abdomen can recreate that correct breathing pattern and practicing that at home is what Katie had me do and it changed
Katie (17:37)
is like one of the first things we will always go over because especially like after having a baby, you're a very chesty breather, right? But you have to imagine that the diaphragm and pelvic floor, they really work together. And so if you're not getting any of that big like diaphragmatic expansion with the inhale, pelvic floor can't drop and really either. But I think like people always look at me and like roll their eyes in that first session. I'm like, okay, so you're gonna go home and we're gonna work on these.
four exercises to help you breathe better. And they're just like, really, this is what you're giving me as homework. And they come back and we like reassess what their pelvic floor is doing and that like tension and pain that they're experiencing is like significantly less. And so breathing really goes such a long ways.
Erica Alshuler (18:08)
Yeah.
Courtney Chandler (18:23)
like nerdy little interject too is that I have an aura ring, not an ad for aura, but I do love my aura ring. is also like breathing correctly for me, I mean, I think for everybody is so connected to ability to go into a rest state and like activate our parasympathetic system.
Katie (18:27)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (18:28)
Same, same.
Katie (18:40)
Yep.
Courtney Chandler (18:41)
And so when you're breathing shallow, I'll like look at my chart. It'll say, like, it like reads your stress during the day. And it's like, you have been in a high stress mode. And when I pause and think about it, half of that's because I have three children running around, but the other half is because I'm falling back into old breathing patterns. And if I like stop and pause and like actually take a few breaths correctly, all of a sudden everything in my system able to, to come down and rest.
Katie (18:51)
Mm -hmm.
That's such a good point Courtney and I challenge anyone who is listening to this that the next time they're in like a stressful situation, like arguing with their partner or getting really annoyed with our kids or whatever it may be, stop and assess what's actually going in your body, like going on in your body. You're probably really getting that chest breathing. If you're in tune to your pelvic floor, you'll probably notice that you're clenching and holding a lot of tension.
in the pelvic floor as well. So in those moments when you're stressed, like you said Courtney, if you can really take those deep diaphragmatic breaths, you can actually activate your parasympathetic nervous system and turn off your flight or fight mode.
Erica Alshuler (19:46)
crazy how powerful the breath is. It is extremely effective phase one phase beyond that of floor physical therapy been a part of. a place where I think about it very specifically, which we haven't dug into too much yet, is this peeing issue. The issue of it is probably one of the main symptoms.
Katie (19:49)
Mm -hmm.
Yep.
Erica Alshuler (20:10)
that brings people to you. it is definitely that most women who have birthed more than one specifically, if only one child have experienced. at one point you said to people think that, I had kids, I just have to live with this is what happens. It's the funny joke about women that if you've had kids, you're gonna pee your pants for the rest of your life. And when you laugh or sneeze or whatever. And...
I was one of those people and I just assumed that was the price I paid. This is the brokenness of me after I had a baby. This is why I got weak. This is why I MP myself. knowing that it doesn't have to be that way. We don't have to live that way is so powerful. And so even just using that breath, if someone wanted to go try on the toilet, right? While listening to this podcast, you got some wireless headphones.
If you do your proper breathing, your breath where you do a big belly breath in and then, aha, like you got punched in the gut when you peeing, that was one of the first times when I fully was able to relax my pelvic floor that I had fully released everything that was in my
when I was going pee, I wasn't actually letting all the pee out as Katie informed me. And so being able to completely release while I'm spending that time on the toilet and not trying to rush my way out to get back to whatever I was doing and just sit there and let it not chill, because you'll tell us that's bad too. Don't hang out on the toilet on your phone, but take a big breath and just let it all out. All of a sudden that started happening so much less. expand on more properly what I just explained in my...
Katie (21:15)
Mm -hmm.
Yep.
I mean, you explained it you're right. Like peeing issues is probably the number one reason someone will come to see me, I would say. And that's the most like well -known obvious dysfunction postpartum women, you And I think you're right. Like so many women are like, well, this is the price I pay. I've donated my body to like have this baby for my and they're good with that.
Erica Alshuler (21:39)
personal anecdote.
Katie (22:01)
But it's probably the easiest thing to improve, honestly. a lot of women start hanging their pants while they are pregnant and literally we can reverse it during pregnancy. it's really just about, yeah, it's really just about creating this. I know, I know it does happen to a lot of women It's really just about creating this coordination.
Erica Alshuler (22:12)
Wow.
I'm also grateful that didn't happen to me. Continue.
Katie (22:22)
between your breath and your pelvic floor. And like Courtney said, like she was kind of reversed, right? So she was getting that lift in the pelvic floor when she was inhaling and lengthening when she was exhaling. And that is an example a lack of coordination. And so really decrease the incontinence, whether that incontinence is happening when you're laughing, sneezing, jumping, picking up a kid, whatever it may be, we really just want to train your pelvic floor.
to give you that support during those stressful moments instead of like putting all the pressure down through pelvic floor. So it's just like your body's pressure and that's like a pretty like straightforward path forward,
Erica Alshuler (23:07)
and I'm looking forward to, I'm old and I don't have a lot of weddings coming up, but I'm looking forward to the next opportunity where I'm jumping up and down on a dance floor, because that was the first time I noticed it. And it happened to be July in DC and it was a black tie wedding, beautiful wedding, but very, very hot and sweaty. And I was like, is this sweat? Is this pee? I'm not sure. I don't really care at this point, because I'm dancing on the floor and I have a long dress on. Sorry, everyone.
Katie (23:11)
Yes.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah. Me too. Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (23:32)
And so I am curious after having done all this work, how that will hold up. And thank you, I'll report back for sure. And we've mentioned a couple of idea of pressure. I think this is an important point to talk about. It relates to Courtney, what you were saying about breathing, but it very much related to why a back issue led me to this physical therapy, pelvic floor physical
Katie (23:45)
Mm -hmm.
Erica Alshuler (23:56)
So will you connect the dots for us a little bit on the breathing and then the pressure system that goes on?
Katie (24:01)
Yes, sure.
we're thinking about pressure think about like any load that goes through your body. So a load could be picking up your kid. It could be dancing on the dance it's running. It's anything, a sneeze, anything that puts pressure through your body.
So any of those things are examples of pressure so what we need is our bodies to like really evenly distribute this pressure. We want it to go throughout our whole abdomen in a 360 way. we don't want it to just go down towards our pelvic floors. And so with that inhale, and when you're getting this big, like 360 breath, you're really focusing on.
filling your abdomen with air, not only in the front, not just getting a belly breath, but we also want your rib cage to open up so you get that like lateral expansion. And then we also want you to be able to breathe into your back too. So you're really like filling your abdomen like a balloon fills up. It just fills up in this like beautiful round way. that is really that like distribution of air and breath and pressure. And so,
when we're trying to really like focus and retrain these muscles, a lot of what we're trying to achieve is getting this nice 360 breath and we're probably breaking it down step by step by step.
Erica Alshuler (25:22)
that has been a big part of you know I can solve for strengthening and connecting to all these different abdomen muscles that are gonna help me with with stability and hold up my back and everything and my lower back pain is my issue but knowing if I'm doing those exercises wrong or with the wrong breath maybe I'm doing the exercise right but with the wrong breath I was
Katie (25:40)
Mm hmm.
Erica Alshuler (25:43)
creating pressure on my lower back and just counteracting all the hard work I was doing in Pilates and otherwise. So that was another huge aha moment.
Katie (25:46)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, for you, if you don't mind me using you as an example, you were putting like all of the pressure right towards your lower
Erica Alshuler (25:54)
Of course.
Katie (26:00)
And so when you would like take any stress to your body, instead of getting like this nice muscle activation that support your body, you were just pushing out and all that pressure is going through your belly and also into your pelvic floor, which is why pelvic floor became overactive. So for you, we were really working
retraining that pressure distribution and getting some nice support when you are taking those stressors through your body.
Erica Alshuler (26:25)
And now we're working on, there's so much more that connects to the pelvic floor than I realized. Like now we're working on, a hamstring issue I have because it's insertion point is, you know, right on the pelvis. well, you, Katie, I know started this journey with a hip injury. Courtney, you've also always had some hip dysfunction. I'm curious of you,
Katie (26:39)
Mm -hmm.
Erica Alshuler (26:48)
want to talk about our hips and our psoas and our experience with. And I know, you know, of course, Katie, you can tell us all the things you can do for that, but I don't know if Courtney, if that's been a part of your journey at all.
Courtney Chandler (26:57)
No, it's been a huge part of my journey. And I was going to build on something that you said earlier, Katie, think that a lot of these things happen when we're pregnant, but that we all have a pelvic floor. People that identify as male, people that identify as female, people identify anyway, we all have a pelvic floor. And so a lot of this dysfunction I realized after the fact was happening well before I was pregnant.
I was just told like, go to PT, you have really tight hips and they're very weak back when I was a teenager and I was dancing and riding horses. and now I'm realizing how much of that was actually connected to my pelvic floor and how exact similar to you, Erica, like how I was like distributing that pressure incorrectly because I didn't know how to support it. And I remember training for dance stuff.
And people would be like, well, engage your core. And I'd be like, I am, but it would just be like the front part of my core that would kick on. It was like those like six pack muscles, not that I had a six pack ever. but that those are the things where that six pack might be someday. or was then like over -activates and kicks on because I wasn't able to breathe with my entire diaphragm and distribute the pressure.
Erica Alshuler (27:54)
or where that six pack would be.
now learned how to release my pelvic floor, relearned how to breathe, you ideally, I think I've done a better job pressure system that is my abdomen. And so when Katie goes in there, and she kind of touches around, it's soft as it should be, it's not tight. Because that first time you went in and touch I was like, holy,
Katie (28:20)
Mm -hmm.
Erica Alshuler (28:31)
Moli, what are you touching in there? I thought something was broken because it felt like the tightest IT band I've ever had or that spot where you touch and you feel like you have to have a bruise, but it's just that that muscle is so sore. It felt like that everywhere you touched inside. And now when you go in and it's relaxed, if you do find one of those tender spots, it's always my hip or like my psoas, which is crazy that you can reach those from the inside. But...
Katie (28:33)
Great.
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (28:57)
That seems to be a hot topic lately, and I say that only because there's this product on the market that I see, I get served ads for forever, and then of course but it's like the hip hook, something like that, because it's kind of maybe a part of this awakening of understanding how little we're focused on this area of our body, but that a lot of people are really tight through the front of their hips.
Katie (29:07)
huh, huh, yep.
Erica Alshuler (29:17)
Will you tell us a little bit more about that muscle? Because I think it's relevant to everyone, males and females.
Katie (29:24)
I was an orthopedic PT, I just remember having so many hip patients that I was just like, well, I don't know how else to help you, you know? And like, you just like, you couldn't get them better. And it was so infuriating because you theoretically doing all the right things and now reflecting back man, that person should have gone to pelvic port PT.
Erica Alshuler (29:32)
Mm -hmm.
Katie (29:43)
When we're thinking of the body, we really want to create this like nice balance so that all of the muscles are functioning together. But when one muscle becomes really overactive, the other muscles are like, okay, you got this, I'm going to do a little bit less. And when those start doing a little bit less, other muscles become a little more overactive. And so in the hips specifically, I think, you know, a lot of women's hip flexors are a lot of people, but specifically women, a lot of women's hip flexors are really, really tight.
especially we see that a lot, like in pregnancy and postpartum, and that is so relevant to their pelvic floor and core. And a lot of times those muscles are just trying to like overcompensate for a weaker core. But another really interesting thing about the psoas is that it's insertion point, actually like up right where the diaphragm also is inserted. And when you can like,
actually start getting these big diaphragmatic breaths, you're not improving the mobility of your diaphragm, which is so important, but you're also improving mobility of your hip flexors, which is awesome. That's really kind of a cool thing. that's pretty cool, right? And so...
Erica Alshuler (30:52)
Well, and in Pilates, at least my instructor and identified, that a lot of women for some reason, maybe who weren't recruiting the right abdominal muscles were overusing their hip flexors and they were staying really tight. She would see that a lot and really try to work to get them out of their hip flexors.
Katie (31:06)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Yes, yes. And like, so if any of you out there are doing like some core workouts and you're like, man, I just worked my hips so good in that scissor kick, you're probably not doing it right. You're probably not getting a lot of core activation. You should never feel a core exercise in your hip just keep that in mind. Hot tip. I think another like fun, cool fact about hip flexors when we're thinking like pelvic floor is during pregnancy.
Erica Alshuler (31:20)
Mm -hmm.
Good to know.
Katie (31:35)
And if those hip flexors are really, really tight, it will actually like push baby off center. when we're thinking of like breach babies or dropping and getting engaged, usually they're having issues getting into position because of like muscular restriction and hip flexors are one of the biggest, most primary muscles. I will always try to get out of the way to make room for babies.
Erica Alshuler (31:54)
my gosh, you cannot see us. My jaw is dropped because it's not saying that like this will solve all, but like, man, these are things that your OB doesn't mention to you. Like people are over here using what Sage sticks and I don't know what else, but
Katie (31:58)
Yeah.
Courtney Chandler (32:00)
them.
Katie (32:09)
No.
Courtney Chandler (32:16)
My first wish when I found out about all of this was that we were like countries like France in the United States, where it was just part of your postpartum journey was pelvic floor therapy. And then when I realized how much was going on with me before I was ever even thinking about being pregnant, my wish is that this is just part of like,
Erica Alshuler (32:14)
Yeah, go ahead.
Courtney Chandler (32:38)
how we learn about our bodies growing up. Like I wish that when I started being active in less like just playing way, like you're training and you're lifting weights and you're doing this and you're taking these classes and whatever. I wish this had been part of my and everyone's conversations because I think it would have solved a lot of stuff way earlier on.
Katie (33:02)
Amen.
Erica Alshuler (33:01)
Amen. It's such a huge, it's a huge problem that's part of a much larger problem in our healthcare system. But I do think that in terms of education, there's well, A Courtney, this is why you're here. This is the type of work that you are passionate about and connecting with kids at an early age. It even more than just pelvic floor physical therapy as well. We just had my son,
had fractured an ankle and we went back in for a follow -up because he was still having issues and he's just rolling his ankles all the time. We're like, what's wrong? Is this compensating for the old injury? What's going on? And as he tugged on his ankles, this ankle specialist like tugged on his ankles and they moved what felt like a whole inch. He just said, you know, you and your son are both pretty mobile, hyper mobile, if that's the term. And he's just got loose
This is not going to change until he's 16, maybe beyond. He's going to be going through this, we're very are very specific exercises that a PT can teach him to strengthen the muscles around his ankles that will prevent these injuries from continuing to yes, now it's on my to -do list to all this money for this fancy PT where the Lakers train right around here.
Katie (34:05)
Frankly.
Erica Alshuler (34:21)
because that's the one that lit his eyes up, right? When he's like, ooh, see the celebrity athletes there. But you know, when this should be a part of soccer practice, this should be a part of warmup. And I know that there's just not enough time in the day, the way yoga took off shout out to Cosmic Kids Yoga we did during COVID and lots of kids love, where's that kid app, that kid mobility or that puberty or middle school, high school program where,
Instead of PE, just learning how to play basketball, maybe we learn about our bodies and strengthen them in helpful ways, whether or not you're going to be an athlete or not.
Courtney Chandler (34:55)
Well, and it even starts like I, a hundred spent agree with you percent agree with I think about our who just turned three, she like six months ago when she was like, Hey, do I get to have underwear? Do I get to go potty? And I was like, yeah, oops, sorry. Not about you but like how we learn to go sit on a even just like go to the bathroom properly.
Katie (35:11)
Yeah.
Courtney Chandler (35:19)
as a three -year -old, like how am I supposed to teach her that when I'm just learning that as a 40 -year -old?
Erica Alshuler (35:24)
That is a really great point. Why haven't I taught my kids to ha? I'm going to teach them to do the ha -pee or the ha -poo. I mean, you tell them not to strain. I remember hearing that as a kid but much that seems to be the theme of this podcast. I heard what I was supposed to be doing, but it didn't make sense to my body because I thought, well, you have to kind of push. You have to be a little active or else the poo would just fall out of you when you weren't on the toilet. But yes, the position.
Katie (35:26)
Yeah.
Courtney Chandler (35:28)
Yeah.
Katie (35:50)
just explaining to your kid the difference between like straining and pushing in a safe way, you you can still get some bearing down while you're like, breathing your poop out. And like teaching them that difference.
Courtney Chandler (36:04)
Well, and things like supporting their feet, right? Like I didn't know about a squatty potty until my sister got one and was like, hey, I think we should all have these. And we were like, yeah, sure. Okay. Now every bathroom in my house has a squatty for us as the adults, but also for like these little legs that are just dangling there. Like I didn't realize that like, right. That that was ergonomic for them either. And that their little feet needed to be supported.
Katie (36:14)
Hehehe.
Erica Alshuler (36:22)
The wrong direction, yeah.
Well, one year my sister bought everyone in our family a squatty potty as a Christmas joke and they all ended up in the landfill or like in goodwill because we were like, that was funny, ha ha. I think this thing is ugly. I'm not putting it in my bathroom. I have a tiny bathroom. There's no room for this. And now I'm like, dang it. I still haven't bought one, but we've been using all the little leftover kids' school stools because our kids don't need them anymore. So at least we can like move those around the house. But no, we're still not even good enough about it because it takes a while for these things to become.
built into your lifestyle and your, you know, not just my personal wellbeing journey that I'm on, needs to become a part of everyday practice for our family.
Katie (37:07)
should have a squatty potty.
Erica Alshuler (37:09)
I also want, because then I'll just make my husband listen to this podcast, Why should you not sit and read on the toilet? I need to know.
Katie (37:18)
I just don't know what men are doing when they go in there first of all. I just like...
Erica Alshuler (37:21)
Well, I'll tell you that my husband had a website, which I will see if it's still alive, called crapperreading .com that he made, where all he did was curate the appropriate length article because he said that took him too much time at work, like getting ready for his of finding the right length article that he could actually read and finish in the right amount of time but wouldn't run out of and have to search for a second one. So he would curate interesting appropriately length articles for the crapper.
Katie (37:44)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (37:48)
And it didn't take off shockingly, but that was just a fun side project. So.
Katie (37:49)
Yes.
I mean, here's what I would say about pooping is just go poop when you have to go poop. Like don't go on the toilet and try to force it out. If you sit down and you're like, hmm, thought I had to go, but I don't get up, go walk around, drink a glass of like warm liquid, but don't sit there wait for it to come or push it that's going to create a lot of strain through your pelvic floor and a lot of strain through your rectum. And that's how we start getting things like hemorrhoids.
Erica Alshuler (38:22)
So that's what's interesting though is because myself and a handful of other people, despite our other issues, when we do have to go poop, when I finally get the call, it's like, I go, I'm done. If I was in a public restroom, no one would know the difference between a pee and a poop. husband and he, I know will not get mad at me for this, he gets the call. It's not like, time for my poop, I should go. It's like, he does get the call and then.
Katie (38:32)
Yeah.
Yes,
Erica Alshuler (38:46)
I genuinely think he's kind of pooping for like 15 minutes. Is that not possible?
Katie (38:52)
I didn't, I don't believe that. I don't believe it.
Erica Alshuler (38:54)
Maybe it's that people are trying to be efficient and they think they should get it all out in one sitting. Whereas like, I've had days, but I've had days where I poop and then like a half hour later I have to poop again. Like, and that doesn't mean I do that every day. Is that bad? That's not good.
Katie (39:03)
Well, you should.
Well, that's actually not a yeah, it's actually not like a great thing. You should try to fully empty We want you to fully empty. You should not be pooping 30 minutes again later unless you have some sort of terrible diarrhea But I think like if it takes 15 minutes for your poop to come out you're probably like Got some really tight muscles around your rectum. I would imagine or you've pooped
Erica Alshuler (39:17)
Hmm.
Katie (39:36)
And then you're just like sitting there finishing reading what you're reading.
Courtney Chandler (39:39)
how long do you actually go in there when you don't bring your phone? When you have like nothing else to do and and then the other thing is it goes back to the point that we keep talking about is everyone has a pelvic floor. Everybody deals with this in different ways. And I think that we think of it as something that women deal with because of pregnancy, but Katie has dispelled that many times. It's, you know, it's there before you're pregnant and it's there whether you get pregnant or not.
Katie (39:43)
Mm -hmm.
Erica Alshuler (39:43)
Yep.
Mm -hmm.
Katie (40:01)
Mm -hmm.
Erica Alshuler (40:04)
yeah, I think my pelvic floor dysfunction was there far before I had as was my back pain. So there's evidence. Now,
Katie (40:06)
Yep.
Erica Alshuler (40:14)
I do want to, before we leave, I do want to make the totally natural transition to talk about sex after talking about poop. I know you knew that was coming. So just to touch on this quickly, because I think it's part of a much larger conversation that we can save for another time, you know, understanding women's bodies, appreciating women's sexual pleasure and sexual health,
Katie (40:23)
Okay.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (40:38)
I wanna just, make the connection in people's minds between this type of physical therapy and what it can mean for their sex life. Not just if you had painful sex before, but what are the other benefits that come from this?
Katie (40:45)
Yeah, yeah. So lots, lots. are a few common things that we see around sex. I will say like as a disclosure, sex should always be comfortable. Any position should be good. You should be able to do it doggy style. You should do reverse cowgirl. Whatever you wanna do, you should do it without pain.
Penetration should be comfortable. Orgasms should be comfortable. should be able to fully orgasm. And there are a lot of different seasons in life where like, you might kind of notice your like orgasm is a little weaker. Some women notice that like, my God, all of a sudden they can't have an orgasm.
Or I've never really been the type that orgasms, you know, those are all like common things I So you should always be able to orgasm, you should always be comfortable. And it should never be like, okay, well, like it hurts getting started, but then it gets is not normal. So the only thing that is normal around sex that I would totally classify as normal is when...
you are postpartum and you are lactating, you are actually, and same with menopause too, you can be drier and that's because of your estrogen levels. And so those are great times in life to use a good lubricant when you're having sex. And that is not like a sign of dysfunction, that is literally a season of otherwise sex should be like totally comfortable.
Erica Alshuler (42:14)
Now what would the connection between therapy be with having an orgasm?
Courtney Chandler (42:15)
What?
Katie (42:21)
Yeah, so there are different layers of your pelvic floor. So there are three layers of your pelvic floor and your clitoris has something called a clitoral hood. And so if your outer layers of your pelvic floor are really, really tight, it can kind of like compress that clitoral hood and decrease the mobility there. And so when you become aroused, you don't exposure.
Erica Alshuler (42:44)
Fascinating.
Katie (42:45)
And yes, so sometimes we work on like literal hood mobility. yeah, yeah. So we could really have a whole episode just about yeah, part two sex, part three poop.
Courtney Chandler (42:45)
Mm -hmm.
Erica Alshuler (42:51)
Okay, okay, sign me up. Just kidding. up part two, all right.
Courtney Chandler (43:00)
I was just going to connect it back to something that you said at the very beginning of us recording today was that like, we grew up on a generation of like tight is better. Like everything that we were taught about, without even using the word pelvic floor, it was like, well it'll be more pleasurable for your partner. If you are tighter, if you're doing your kegel or kegel or however you pronounce exercises. And so we are like, I feel like a generation of women that are,
Katie (43:04)
Mm -hmm.
Courtney Chandler (43:27)
having to unlearn a lot of what we thought came with sex and being tighter.
Erica Alshuler (43:33)
thousand percent and that we and that we need to work out our clitoral hood. Obviously get some dang who knew got so many body parts to worry about. I love it.
Katie (43:33)
Yeah, for sure. Gotta work that clitoral hood. I mean, if you go take a mirror later today, you'll find your clitoris and you will notice there is like a little bit of like overhang on it. That's your clitoral hood.
Courtney Chandler (43:40)
WAH!
I think it's a perfect thing to end on.
Erica Alshuler (44:00)
This I was aware of, the exercises I was not, I'm excited to learn about. This has been fantastic. appreciate both of you and your time so
And I love that this is part of our conversation. I always ask, why is this shiny to me right now? And I don't even need to ask you to, because I know it's that we have so much learning to do about the female body. And it's taken a really long time, but we're finally in some positive momentum around it. So things like this are a big part of that. And it's coming up because we're learning more, we're training more, more businesses like your amazing business, KDR.
Katie (44:37)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (44:40)
opening and friends are talking about it, listening to this podcast, sharing it and seeing how different their life could be in a way that they never really even knew they might have had a problem. They thought they just had to live with it. So I am grateful for you guys thankful to have you on today and for your we'll have to do a part two and get even more down and dirty. Maybe that's the name of it, down and dirty.
Katie (45:05)
Mmm, that's actually a really good name.
Courtney Chandler (45:06)
Eww.
Erica Alshuler (45:08)
Right? Because it's poop and sex. Just kidding.
Katie (45:10)
Yeah, I actually think that's an excellent name.
Erica Alshuler (45:13)
Thank you so much. Well, part two, Down and Dirty will be coming to your ears soon. In the meantime, I'm gonna say goodbye to you guys and everyone else and say thank you again for listening and share this, talk about this. The more we quote, normalize this kind of conversation, the healthier everyone's gonna be and enjoy some gospel of gold by my friend Effie Zilch on the way out. Thank you all and have an amazing day.