Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
“Words of Wisdom” is an initiative to document and celebrate the stories, insights, and wisdom of Singapore’s senior citizens. It's powered by Folklory, a service dedicated to preserving stories through audio podcasts, who will collaborate with 60 seniors aged 60 and above to create a series of 60 podcasts, each capturing a unique slice of Singapore’s rich history and culture. Find out more info at Folklory.com
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:24:04
Unknown
Hello there. This is Terence from folkloric. What? You're about to listen to a podcast from the Words of Wisdom project, where we spoke to 60 Singaporeans over the age of 64 as 60 and captured their life lessons for the next generation. We hope you enjoy it. I.
00:00:24:06 - 00:00:51:04
Unknown
And we're here today with Carla to do a words of wisdom for three. Maybe the best way for us to start is for you, Carla, to just give us a brief introduction of yourself. Yeah, I'm Carla Push Canadian. I'm 75 years old. That makes me a very senior citizen. I'm a mother of two grown up children. My son is a psychiatrist and my daughter is a lawyer.
00:00:51:06 - 00:01:16:13
Unknown
And this is my husband and my daughter. And my son is based in Melbourne. I was my mother lived with me for many years. But right now, it's just just us. And I spend my time, doing a lot of exercises, socializing and, some whatever social work I can do. Thank you. Got it. You got it.
00:01:16:15 - 00:01:42:17
Unknown
So, you know, this is a for Clarita. We're doing, because we're talking about 60 seniors for Singapore's 60th birthday. Maybe the best way for us to, to start is to sort of go back into your journey of, talking about how you found love. Do you recall how you actually met your husband? Oh, okay. Okay.
00:01:42:17 - 00:02:11:24
Unknown
When you say you mean romantic love. Yes. Romantic love became. Mine was sound quite romantic. Really. Almost like of, Bollywood, movie. Because, that was way back in 1969, and I was in university and a group of 20 students from all faculties of the university went on a, study tour of India. From north right from Kashmir to down south tip of India.
00:02:12:01 - 00:02:38:23
Unknown
And those days we had to go by boat. It was the regular boat and it took three days, to get there. And then one, one night, we, we were deep in the Indian Ocean, dark as anything. And the breeze was blowing, and I decided, I'm. I'm a singer. You see, I learned Indian Carnatic music, and I decided to just sing to myself what I thought was singing to myself.
00:02:39:00 - 00:03:11:20
Unknown
But obviously the music drifted and my husband pushed Pushpa. Nothing, who was somewhere on the deck, walked up to me later and said, I like that song. And that's when he first spoke to me. And then we actually, between two of us, spent three months together traveling the hard way by train and so on. So, we got to know each other, and we knew that we could survive hard times during a trip like that.
00:03:11:22 - 00:03:57:12
Unknown
So that's how we got to know each other. And it was a tested marriage because we were childless for 12 years. That was pretty difficult. And I went several times to the operating theater because everything was wrong with me. Nothing was wrong with him. So the problems were with me, but he was very patient. And ultimately, with the help of the team of S.S. Ratnam and as soon I succeeded in becoming the mother of the second test tube baby or IVF baby to be born in Singapore, way back in 84 when it was just, all project kind of organically at that time.
00:03:57:14 - 00:04:22:24
Unknown
Well, yes, that's our story of that. Got it. You got it. So just to go back to something you mentioned earlier about having traveled together and experienced life together, and from there understanding that you could, yeah, you could actually talk to each other and actually live together. What do you think was the moment for you when you knew that that your husband was the one?
00:04:23:01 - 00:04:48:04
Unknown
Oh, actually, we were just friends. A big group of friends, you know, until he popped the question. And, he had met my family. By then, he was working in Singapore and also in Singapore. And when he popped the question and, I just thought about it and I said, no, I cannot find a better man. I want to marry a good man.
00:04:48:06 - 00:05:26:04
Unknown
And I just, said, yes. He's the one that is simple. Not complicated at all. What do you define as a good man back then? Someone is, as I said earlier, if the times are difficult, we can manage together, and we say that later on in life. Yeah, I see, I see. So in terms of and in terms of the courtship and heading towards marriage, was there a difference between how you view, you know, being more than friends and then eventually deciding to get married?
00:05:26:04 - 00:05:52:23
Unknown
Like what what was the key driver for you making the decision that you wanted to marry this person who actually is very blurred line. You know, he was a very good friend. So we we just knew each other and, we decided, well, it makes sense. So we will get married. And it was like, common sense, none of these lovey dovey style.
00:05:52:23 - 00:06:21:01
Unknown
So shiny or anything like that. Really? No, no. Got it. So when, when you see young people today and they have, their views on relationship and love. Yeah. Like what advice do you have for young people who are okay. Oh, they're looking for love or even frustrated in not being able to find love? Yeah. I think, in fact, there were times I suggested I did some social work.
00:06:21:03 - 00:06:40:20
Unknown
I didn't I did try to matchmake, you know, young people because I it is very frustrating to look and say, oh, there's this young man and this young girl, let's try and get these people to meet, you know. But I just find that they are not realistic. They want every box ticked and there is no such man. There's no such woman.
00:06:40:20 - 00:07:08:07
Unknown
I always tell these people, go and look at yourself in the mirror. You know, you know, when if they're Indian, I tell them, look, guy, you're not Shahrukh Khan. And after the girl, you're not Asian. You're right. No. So you can look for other Shahrukh Khan, so that sort of thing. So, they're not realistic. And I think girls now have, such, independence, and they can stand on their own feet.
00:07:08:07 - 00:07:35:13
Unknown
So, lots of expectations, even when they are married, when they have children, trouble starts. This is a stunning fine among many young people. The wife, the woman can dictate. Last yesterday, I did the diapers. I woke up at nine. Today. It's your turn. I don't remember a day my husband got up to change diapers. Not a thing, you know, and, I breast.
00:07:35:15 - 00:08:00:20
Unknown
I stayed home six months to bless breastfeed my son with my daughter. I even tried for one year. That means I will come back from work and rush to her and do to do so the whole night. Look after her like 8:00 in the morning, I leave for office. There was no expectations, from them, but he appreciated it.
00:08:00:22 - 00:08:29:23
Unknown
And it worked because I suppose because I was a late mother. Maybe I looked at it differently and I so much wanted a child in my life. So it was, I felt my, my in arena, thought it so there's so little that, I mean, the one aspect is falling in love and finding someone to, to to want to spend your life with.
00:08:30:00 - 00:08:56:12
Unknown
But I wanted to ask you about what is your secret to the longevity of your relationship. Like what do you think has kept things? Yeah, ongoing for so many years and to build a family together. My husband and I are married for 52 years. Wow, 52 years. And of course it's we get older, we are both grouchy and you know, it's becoming a bit more difficult with each other, granted.
00:08:56:14 - 00:09:29:14
Unknown
But I think there were so many points when the marriage was tested. As I said, 12 years childless and we were strong, because we had that one goal, you know, we have each other. We did carpentry together. We did gardening together. We will do it yourself. Do it ourselves, people. And we did things together. The main thing I would say is he respected the fact that I needed to came from work after my parents, and I respected that.
00:09:29:16 - 00:09:55:13
Unknown
I needed to help him look after his mother, his father, his father, diamond. He was very young, and we always accommodated each other in making sure that the parents of the other were looked after. My mother stayed with me the last six years of her life. She had dementia and she was also bedridden. The only thing my husband didn't do was change her diapers.
00:09:55:15 - 00:10:22:16
Unknown
Okay. That's the only thing for reasons of privacy. Other than that he did everything to support me. So when my, my, my my mother in law so Malaysian those days we could get PR for her and she spent few months in their defense. So yeah, that is how it is. You know looking after extended families.
00:10:22:17 - 00:10:59:07
Unknown
Well yeah, that's how I put it. So it's a lot of it is respect for each other and each other's and each other's families, extended families as well. I see, I see so we know with all the wisdom and experience that you've gained over the years, if there was a time machine that allowed you to go back in time to 1969 when you first met your husband, and then this one piece of advice that you could give a young, this young couple, you know, what would you what advice would you give a young version of yourself?
00:10:59:09 - 00:11:27:10
Unknown
Yeah. I wouldn't change anything. If you meet my children, you will know why they adore their parents. Piece of advice. As I said again, no man, no woman can take all the boxes. So don't look for the person next man. Look for what you think meets your basic requirements and adjust along the way. Got it? Got it.
00:11:27:12 - 00:11:50:11
Unknown
I think that's very helpful advice for people because, you know, maybe don't people have too much choice? Too much. That's a problem. Yeah, that's very, very true. Yeah. I do want to ask you a bit about, you know, the fact that you you mentioned that you wanted motherhood new, you saw motherhood as something that you really wanted for yourself, and it's something that you took on as your your role, right?
00:11:50:12 - 00:12:11:11
Unknown
Yes. Yes. So, you know, nowadays, as you mentioned, young people, they've got a lot of choices, even young women also, you know, they think about their careers alongside how they think about it. Families and stuff like that. What would what would you say to a young person who's thinking about who's juggling this, this, dichotomy in between?
00:12:11:11 - 00:12:40:00
Unknown
Oh, should I focus on my career or should I be focusing on my family? Like, how should they be thinking about their priorities? I think, we, my husband and I had to. There were times when he didn't want to do certain things he always loved to do. He quit looking for, being employed and to do things on his own, and I, I supported him by working full time.
00:12:40:02 - 00:13:07:08
Unknown
And then when the children came along and I said, look, I always wanted to raise my own children. I do not want to be, you know, a part time madam. We switched roles. He decided he has to go back to be employed. And I stayed home to, to to raise my children. So of course, then we have to look at the finances, the, the, the mortgages had to be paid.
00:13:07:08 - 00:13:31:12
Unknown
There was a big hole in the queen, the income level coming in so I could do things like I just switched. I did things like, I did real estate, sort of, selling houses because I could do it in between dropping my doted kindergarden, picking her back, picking the children, and later, when my mother became ill, my parents needed help.
00:13:31:14 - 00:14:02:19
Unknown
I switched and became a tutor. I stayed home so that I could work from home, so to speak. The children used to come to the house, so I just. We just made adjustments so that we could still, you know, be well, earn enough. We never went on holidays, never went on holidays because money was tight and, and we couldn't spare the time because there were only people to be looked after.
00:14:02:21 - 00:14:39:20
Unknown
Now that all the old people are no more. My husband and I are traveling with vengeance. Now is when. But it's difficult. He's 80 and I'm 75. We found it difficult. We just finished a trip to Iceland and Portugal. Tough. But you know, we've we've done it. Okay. I mean it's interesting you mentioned that as much as you know, there was this desire to take care of family and all, it was, it was a very, very, at times also quite trying experience.
00:14:39:20 - 00:15:09:11
Unknown
Right. So what, what has kept you motivated and, you know, kept you on course through this period of raising a family, taking care of your parents, your in-laws, you know, what has made you kept you motivated and never thinking about giving up through all these years. Yeah, with this, the oceans, it's because in many ways, I could see I was giving back because they had helped me so much along the way.
00:15:09:13 - 00:15:38:23
Unknown
And it makes me it made me happy to look after them with the children. They are the joy. I think if every woman realizes that, you know, I feel that a woman's body is made to produce children. Really? Because use it or lose it, you know? And if a woman says, oh, my God, I'm worried about breast cancer, I'll make sure you get married and breastfeed the child.
00:15:39:00 - 00:16:08:04
Unknown
You know, the womb is made for a purpose to carry a child through. So. So I feel that, I got so much joy from my children and, molding them. Maybe that's how I made. I'm not sure. I was never ambitious. Sorry, Kerry. I was never career minded. So. I mean, but at the same time, raising a family is tougher.
00:16:08:07 - 00:16:35:18
Unknown
Not as tough, not tougher then, you know, building a career comment. Yes. I mean, raising children, it's a it's life's life's work, right? So, so, so I mean, interesting that your own children now are grown up and, you know, have adult lives of their own. Is there any advice that you've given them over the years about whether it's about, finding love or even about being good parents?
00:16:35:20 - 00:17:03:17
Unknown
I think they they can they will emulate us. His their parents having watched us because I watched my mother raise my I watched my mother care for her mother till the end. She kept her in the house and looked after fans, although there were other siblings that she had. So. And I did the same thing. I looked after my mother, my two other siblings I in UK so they couldn't unplayable.
00:17:03:19 - 00:17:33:03
Unknown
I looked at her as my baby to look after and my daughters can see is already stepped into the same pair of shoes. And she's always looking to our needs so that that's that part of it. As for love and relationship, I don't think I can influence my children. My son is 40, is still single because I can tell other kids to other other kids.
00:17:33:03 - 00:18:01:20
Unknown
Please don't. There's no perfect person. You can't take all the boxes. But I've tried telling that to my son, but I really don't know what he's looking for. But I think she's more worried about. He sees a lot of failures in marriages and especially after the children arrived and he worries him, that sort of thing. So waiting for someone to my daughter.
00:18:02:00 - 00:18:39:17
Unknown
Yeah. Hopefully she find someone. She's working on it. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, we talked quite a bit about romantic love and your family as well. I wanted to just ask you a little bit about friendships or friendships outside of of the family. Right. What what do you, what character traits do you think are most important in terms of the friendships that you've built over the years in the strong, the the strongest friendship I have is with, a friend, a friend of mine.
00:18:39:17 - 00:19:07:21
Unknown
Her name's Doc Slim. Strangely, she was a boss. My boss in Singtel. For a while. We were colleagues. Then she became my boss. And then, I left Singtel. Subsequently she left. But our friendship lasted from being to, well, maybe almost 50 years. We stayed as friends. We ran a business for a short while and then gave it up.
00:19:07:23 - 00:19:34:02
Unknown
But she's always saying she's in her. She's late 70s. But to now, if I'm in need, she's the first person I call. She's day. She's always there. Somehow it works out that way. She has lots of friends out there, and she doesn't need to call me for any kind of help, but for me, she's the person I.
00:19:34:07 - 00:19:57:02
Unknown
She's the go to person. I'll just talk about this one one better. Yeah. And I, we could share things with each other. Maybe because we were not, we're not in a circle in the sense she's not related to me. She's not a member of the community. I'm not member of her in a in a circle kind of community.
00:19:57:02 - 00:20:24:04
Unknown
She's Chinese, I'm Indian. You. So we were both featured in a TV program on interracial friendships. Because it is so exceptional. In fact, when before when my mother wrote to Bill, she never told us about it. She never told her children. She called for doctors and doctors to cut into lawyer doctors. Was, she was the person who did everything for her.
00:20:24:06 - 00:20:49:17
Unknown
Yeah. And when my mum died, Dorcas is Christian. I'm Hindu, so, you know, we had this after one month. We have this closure kind of prayer ceremony and doctors need not take part in that ceremony. I felt but we also said, hold on, hold for the poor. So she went over there and she oversaw that.
00:20:49:17 - 00:21:14:12
Unknown
Everybody was fed well and, looked after that part of it. So that's the kind of friendship that we have. I see and what, what specific traits of Dorcas do you think has made her such an important part of your life? See, she and I share the same traits in the sense that we came from, not well-to-do backgrounds, okay.
00:21:14:14 - 00:21:46:14
Unknown
We were not well-to-do as young people. We struggled. We had to work hard to get a university education and then, then rose to do very well. We are very comfortable financially, but there is still this thing, you know, natural feeling that you have to look up to the person, you know, look over your shoulder to see whether that person needs help, that kind of similar, value systems.
00:21:46:16 - 00:22:16:13
Unknown
I think that's right. It's got it. She loves Indian curry. So if I'm cooking, you know, fish curry is. And this book is in her husband like. Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely got it. Got it. And I mean, you know, to be friends with that long, it's it's quite amazing. Right. And how what what have you done to try and maintain the friendship over the years in spite of, you know, everyone's busy schedules everyone.
00:22:16:13 - 00:22:38:13
Unknown
So it's just it's just occasionally having food. She called me up sometimes and say, oh, some of us are meeting for, at the club for dinner or lunch. Then I'll go. But even so, it's always all food. It's not regular meeting on the street, but if I'm flying away somewhere, if I've forgotten to tell her, I'll send her a message.
00:22:38:13 - 00:23:00:14
Unknown
Look, I'm here. You know, I flown away and I'm back. You know, we really don't have the energy now. You know, she had a cataract and I had my cataract. And we all at different stages, quite lethargic. So it's not one of those active kind of relationships, but we we are in touch. And when the need arises, we are there for each other.
00:23:00:16 - 00:23:27:15
Unknown
Got it? Got it. Yeah. So I mean, you hear a lot of younger people, millennials and Gen Zs, they're very, very savvy with computers connected on social media. At the same time, they feel very lonely. They don't feel like they're connected to people. Well, what advice do you have for people who, feeling lonely and and struggling to find, you know, meaningful relationships that you have a doctors.
00:23:27:17 - 00:23:55:10
Unknown
That's a tough question. It's true. The we go for dinners and we see people all looking at the phone and not talking to the people that are sitting around and having the dinner, and that some families, I've noticed that, I really don't have an answer. It's just that I think we are old school in this. These are young people afraid of missing out what's happening there?
00:23:55:10 - 00:23:59:00
Unknown
But,
00:23:59:02 - 00:24:28:08
Unknown
Maybe they'll realize only when they get old that look. I wish I had socialized better, more, you know, and a seniors we know that keep our brains active. We need to be socially active. And I think that it's enough to have a small group of friends and that will that will do. And it's not necessary to have so many friends and do everything that everybody else is doing.
00:24:28:08 - 00:24:57:22
Unknown
I've got to do it. I've got to go to that restaurant. I must try that Michelin star restaurant, because so-and-so is going and I'm going with them. I think maybe they did more social work and they see lonely senior citizens and realize that one day I will be there and they may spend more time looking at such issues.
00:24:57:24 - 00:25:34:10
Unknown
Okay. Not sure your question. Not. Yeah, yeah, I think I think it's okay. It's a good it's a good answer that people should put their phones down and maybe, you know, focus on on volunteering and and doing social work. Yeah. Because, rather than really just looking inwards at themselves and thinking, what's wrong move. But in a sense, I also did want to ask you because, you know, you've, had a very storied life and career and family, you know, in all these years in Singapore, because we're approaching, you know, 60, 60 years of Singapore's openness.
00:25:34:12 - 00:26:05:07
Unknown
What is one aspect of Singapore that you miss from your youth or your the early days in the 70s or 80s? I had when I was in my childhood, put it this way, childhood simple pleasures, you know, happiness was going to help you. Going to Katong Park, you know, going to the beach, which was walking distance.
00:26:05:09 - 00:26:28:16
Unknown
So my house in many of my interviews, simple things like that was happiness. But today, I mean, I used to I used to to tell the children, the parents would come to me and see my daughter, insist that she wants the latest iPhone. If I want her to show results, I have to go further.
00:26:28:16 - 00:26:51:09
Unknown
IPhone are the latest iPhones. Miss Carla, can you please talk to her? Because she will listen to you, but she won't listen to us. And many a parent has told me that she will listen to you, but she wouldn't listen to us. So I tell them from a different angle, and try to impress upon them.
00:26:51:09 - 00:27:18:00
Unknown
So it's this instant gratification thing, you know, because you press just one button and you get this, so and you get this game and you get this, the phone has, given them that sense of instant gratification. So they, they are always looking for something that gives them that, whereas, I, I just can't imagine two points.
00:27:18:00 - 00:28:01:20
Unknown
Then they want to go to the best restaurant. For me, I still remember this for recess and had $0.15. I didn't have a purse. It was my money with me. Coins were tied to the corner of a handkerchief. $0.05 for a drink, $0.10 for a bowl of noodles. That was my recess. So that's the kind of, you know, I have seen, I have seen children in Singapore be from the streets where there is a pipe sitting, the children living in the, in the Hudson, there's you know, zinc ceiling, you know, zinc roofed homes just based on the streets.
00:28:01:20 - 00:28:30:15
Unknown
Well, I was fortunate. I realized I was fortunate I had a home with bathroom and roofs and, so these are the things we I saw as I grew up. I think that stays with you even. Even now. It stays with me. So if I was to spend twice something, I would think twice. It's okay to spend that and give somebody else something a little time.
00:28:30:17 - 00:28:58:02
Unknown
But why do I need this? You know, it's always the first question. So I don't know. What was your question? I get carried away. Oh. So I, I think it was, what happened, you know, like, where I was asking, what do you miss from your childhood or youth in Singapore? So you don't see today, and, you know, okay, I'm using this, yeah.
00:28:58:02 - 00:29:20:02
Unknown
Simple things, but you don't. They. They have other things. Maybe they have a lot of things that I didn't have a library within ten minutes from your home. I didn't have that. So there are many things I wish I had, but. Yeah. And. Yeah, that's what I do here. I do hear what you're saying about now we have an abundance of choice.
00:29:20:04 - 00:29:51:19
Unknown
Abundance? That's right. Yes. But at the same time, it was the simple things that simple pleasures that. Yeah, you know, and people appreciating these simple pleasures that something that is hard to come by these days. You know, once I distancing, my mind stands up in my mind. When I was a little girl, my father was a white collar civil servant, you know, PA to a British boss when Singapore was, well, when we, we were, we got back our independence.
00:29:51:21 - 00:30:14:09
Unknown
And I remember, when the pope came to power one day, my father was went to work. He was told to bring a broom to work, and we were horrified. My mother and we were all horrified. We left home with trepidation. I could see he was worried in what kind of like he was going to have. But what?
00:30:14:12 - 00:30:44:12
Unknown
What was the broom? So they had to sweep the street. White collared civil servants. P to a boss, had to sweep the streets. That was the beginning. Keep Singapore Clean campaign. Today we we talk about, how beautiful we are. So clean green city, you know. But that's where it started. You know, so the has there has to be hardship before there can be pleasure.
00:30:44:12 - 00:31:15:16
Unknown
Right. So my advice to to young people will be don't take, all the good that, you're enjoying now, don't take it for granted. You know, don't take it for granted. Because it may never, always be thing. Got it, got it. But. Yeah. Wow. Those those are really interesting anecdote. And I think a lot of advice that young people can take away from this.
00:31:15:18 - 00:31:36:07
Unknown
But as you know, you know, we're recording this for Singapore's 60th birthday. Is there are there any well-wishes that you have for future generations of Singaporeans who might be listening to this? I don't know, five years, ten years in the future, anything that you want to leave for them? Just for well-wishers or negative knowledge? Oh, okay.
00:31:36:07 - 00:32:01:06
Unknown
As I just said, don't take for granted what you have now. We have done very well. I was very, very pleased with the speech by our new prime minister, Mr. Lawrence Wong. Because he's new blood, and I see a lot of hope. He comes from the ground, you know, as he said, I just went to Tanjong Katong School and boys school.
00:32:01:08 - 00:32:33:07
Unknown
I think I've done quite well. So that's. He has given a message, which I think I share, you know, so those of you who have done well, please look over your shoulder and look after those who may not be doing so well. That is a piece that I have, you know, more and more, senior citizens. I mean, the aging population, with the aging population, more and more of us who have have dementia, there will be a problem caring for them.
00:32:33:09 - 00:33:01:00
Unknown
I see autism on the rise. We'll have to worry about how these children are going to grow up into adults, and who's going to care for them when they are adults. Because when their parents are no more. These are some of the things, I worry about this about worrying about. Yeah, I also worry about the fact that Singlish has hijacked standard English totally.
00:33:01:02 - 00:33:25:02
Unknown
So much so it's crept into written English. I know it because I tutor. I used to tutor little children, one to be, if we are to be this center, an international center, for business, everyone has to learn how to speak standard English. We can in the in the in the privacy of our homes or with friends, switch over to Singlish.
00:33:25:02 - 00:33:50:08
Unknown
But spoken English has to be standard and office place and work place unseen. No. And that's a game piece of advice. But you. You asked me for what I wish for Singapore. What I wish for Singapore is that we've progressed further. Very excited with the new plans that Mr. Lawrence Wong announced at National Day, at his speech.
00:33:50:10 - 00:34:02:13
Unknown
And I really wish that all those come to fruition. And I.
00:34:02:15 - 00:34:32:04
Unknown
Hello again. I hope you enjoyed listening to that full query. Words of wisdom is a project by Charlotte Gall, powered by full query and supported by our Singapore Fund. To find out more, please visit our website at Folklorico. That's f o l k o r y.com. Goodbye.