Naturally High

In this powerful episode of Naturally High, Jeanne explores why our closest relationships often feel like the hardest ones, and how our early attachment patterns silently shape the way we love, react, and connect. Jeanne speaks about the emotional blueprints that dictate how we show up with partners, children, family members, and even colleagues, blueprints which are often created in childhood.

You’ll learn the core features of anxious, avoidant, disorganized, and secure attachment and how each style influences conflict, intimacy, and communication. Jeanne explains why triggers appear in our most intimate bonds and why understanding context over content is essential for breaking repetitive cycles and creating real repair.

With her signature blend of clinical insight and lived experience, Jeanne shares practical tools to navigate conflict without abandoning yourself, regulate your emotional responses, and renegotiate relationship dynamics with clarity and compassion. She also reflects on lessons from her 44-year marriage, demonstrating what becomes possible when we take full responsibility for our part and commit to growing both individually and together.

This episode is an invitation to slow down, get curious, and see your relational patterns as opportunities for profound healing. Whether you’re partnered, single, estranged, or rebuilding, you’ll come away with a deeper understanding of yourself, and a roadmap leading to healthier, more rewarding relationships.


Resources discussed in this episode:

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Contact Jeanne Foot | The Recovery Concierge: 

Creators and Guests

Host
Jeanne Foot

What is Naturally High?

On Naturally High you’ll receive transformational tools and hear inspirational stories that will guide you into holistically healing trauma in every corner of your life. You deserve to invoke your inner healer. I'm so glad you're here!

Jeanne: [00:00:06] Welcome to Naturally High, the podcast for those ready to transform their lives through holistic healing and empowered self-discovery. I'm your host, Jeanne Foot, a lifelong learner trained in addiction, mental health, and trauma recovery, and your guide on this journey. On this show, you'll find transformational tools, inspirational stories designed to help you break through addiction, trauma, and adversity of any kind. In a world overflowing with information, we focus on real change, understanding the why behind your patterns, and forging new pathways to wellness. Join me at therecoveryconcierge.com and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Together, let's change not just the conversation around mental health and addiction, but how we treat it and how you treat yourself. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Naturally High, and today we're going to talk about something I'm really excited about. And I believe you will be too. All things relationship, guys. We're wired for connection, but yet it can be so difficult at times. Have you guys ever thought how the most important people in your life, whether that's your partner, your spouse, your children, your parents, whatever kind of relationship it is, they can sometimes be the most challenging? I bet you could say that. I'm all in on that. And the reason being is the more intimate the relationship is, the more triggering it can be for us, especially emotionally. And unless we really understand what's going on for each side and take 100% responsibility for our part in it, it gets really painful and messy.

Jeanne: [00:01:46] And even more so when we've had not the most optimal upbringing. Whether it's some sort of dysfunction, whether it's mental illness, incarceration, grief, loss, death—whatever it may be, it really impacts children and sometimes parents or caregivers can do all they can, and it may not be enough. Or sometimes they're really not equipped to handle anything at all because they're just barely hanging on to themselves and getting through it. But whatever the reason that these relationships are so challenging, this subject is so important because how often do we truly consider the impact our relationships have on our overall life satisfaction? And think about it, like if you're with a partner and everything is going rosy, which is highly unlikely because that would be more the anomaly than the norm, then really, life would be great. But what happens when you're with your normal partner? The honeymoon is over, and truly there is that period. Because everything is intoxicating in the beginning when you're with someone. And that's why there is actually a chemical process that goes off and oxytocin gets released and that gets activated in those early times of love. It's the same with a new baby. That's exactly what happens for the bonding process to happen and why it feels so different after a honeymoon is over and the reality of life settles in. So what do we do in these situations? And so the question is, how often do we really consider how our significant relationships impact our overall life satisfaction? And why is it that we're really taught these skills needed to navigate the challenges that arise out of the most intimate relationships and connections? I really don't know, but there should be a manual on this.

Jeanne: [00:03:28] And so the question is, how often do we really consider how our significant relationships impact our overall life satisfaction? And why is it that we rarely taught the skills needed to navigate the challenges that arise out of these most intimate relationships and connections? I really don't know because there should be a manual on this. Like really, we spend so much time with people, whether it's our work family or our own families, and yet we really don't do this so well. I don't think people really give much thought to the overall impact their relationship can have on their life, unless it's not working well. And to have a relationship that's emotionally resilient is, as I mentioned, is more the anomaly than the norm. And so we need to be taught the skills for emotional attunement, that we can read each other. Not read each other's mind, but read each other's cues, that maybe this is a good time or this isn't a good time, or we need to circle back on something depending on what is going on. Or, you know, table it for another time, a more opportune time. Today, we're going to unpack how you can navigate some of the challenges within our most intimate relationships, in which I believe not only are the most complex as they're highly emotional, but also one of the most overlooked areas that can contribute to our overall satisfaction in life and what you can do to increase your fulfillment, intimacy, and love. So who's with me here? Some of you may be wondering if that's even achievable or not.

Jeanne: [00:04:32] Hold on. Stay with me a minute. The jury's not out on this one. All I ask of you is to keep an open mind and suspend your biases about everything you may have thought can be helpful in terms of enhancing your relationships. And give me your undivided attention. And let's see how this can literally change your life for the better. A lot of times we go to therapy or we say we've tried something and the outcome isn't always positive or it wasn't the outcome we had hoped for. And we think that that's a once and done. It's not. It could have just been the wrong person, the wrong timing. There could be many contributing factors to it. Regardless of the outcome we desire when we're navigating hurt, disappointment, grief, and loss, it will always be for the better. Because if it's in your best interest, then you are literally being saved from a lifetime of misery and pain, and you can always rebuild from there. Even when there's an uncoupling process, a loss, an estrangement in our relationships that we didn't really call for or ask for, the human spirit is truly resilient. It is remarkable what we can bear even when we think we can't. And we are beyond capable. So one thing I really believe in, strongly, is that when, whatever the change in a relationship, even when it's for the better, you're going to trade one set of problems for another.

Jeanne: [00:05:56] So you better be sure you can live with that. And what I mean, some of this stuff is beyond our control. And I'm not talking about people who are forced into change through circumstances that are beyond their control, whether it's a grief, a loss, a death, an estrangement from someone where they have no control in the situation at all. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about when we give up too soon on relationships that we feel just are “not working,” quote/unquote. And we decide that, you know, it's the other person, not us. And then we go into a new relationship or a similar situation, and we're exactly the same person, and yet we haven't really changed, and you're going to have a new set of problems. So which ones can you live with? Can you live with a set of problems of being in a relationship that's really not working and that's antagonizing or maybe not healthy? And I'm not saying stay in relationships that are not healthy. I'm not endorsing that at all. Or do you jump ship and just be in Nirvana and pretend that this new relationship is going to be the cure for everything? And literally, you are the common denominator in your life and you're left with yourself again. So in the first episode, I spoke briefly about how our attachment styles form from our strongest need as a child to adapt to circumstances, thereby creating an attachment style which ultimately becomes a good predictor of the satisfaction or misery we will experience in our adult relationships.

Jeanne: [00:07:26] And these relationships go beyond our families as well. They impact our personal friendships, our professional relationships, and how we learn to adapt. Whatever the role we took on, whether it's the people-pleaser or the person who can't say no, or the person who doesn't have boundaries, or the person who has a strong need to be liked by being helpful and signing up for everything. And that used to be me in my old life. But eventually that will come at a cost to themselves or for what worked as a child to keep things predictable and stable no longer works in adult relationships. So it's for this reason it's important for us to understand what drives us to behave in certain ways, and how and where do we get stuck? So the ultimate attachment style we're looking for is secure attachment, and a good example of someone who has a secure attachment is someone who's flourishing, who is really doing rocking their life in every single way. They feel comfortable with intimacy and autonomy. They trust others. They can ask for support when needed and are able to form healthy, balanced relationships. People who have secure attachment, some of the features will look like they have confidence, they're emotionally open, they're resilient, and they're, more importantly, able to not only give love but receive love.

Jeanne: [00:08:48] And I should say, support. And this is a real area where often many people are more comfortable giving. Giving gifts. Giving love. But can't receive because they don't have the capacity, or the security, or the safety or the attunement within to really receive when someone wants to. Sometimes someone adoring you can make someone feel very uncomfortable. And I know that was true for me earlier in my years. I've evolved from that. And I'm not saying I'm so securely attached, by no means, but well on my way to secure attachment. So the other style is what we call anxious attachment. And there's usually a preoccupation with the relationship. There's an obsessive quality about it, where people who experience anxious attachment, they crave closeness, they seek constant approval, reassurance. But because they often fear abandonment or rejection, this can lead to seeking constant reassurance and heightened sensitivity to any relationship cues. And what that can look like is clinginess, worried about whether the relationship is stable or viable, or there's a hypersensitivity to the partner's actions. They have difficulty trusting that they are truly loved. Now, the third type is called avoidant attachment, and this has a dismissive quality. I would say it's like, I want you, go away. I want you, come closer, go away. I want you to go away. People who experience avoidant attachment value independence to the extent that they avoid closeness and emotional connection.

Jeanne: [00:10:25] They build walls. They close off love and suppress or ignore their own attachment needs and those of others. So it looks like I've got this. I would be that woman carrying my case when somebody would say, can you can I help you put that up? No, I've got it. Thank you very much. You know, like stoicism, I've got this. I'm a little softer now in terms of how I receive help. But back in the day that would be an example of that. So core features may look like emotional distance over self-reliance. Avoidance of dependency. And maybe uncomfortable with too much closeness. It may scare that person, overwhelm that person if they get too close, and what happens if it doesn't work out? Now the last type is what we call disorganized attachment, which is a combination of anxious and avoidant. And that's why sometimes it can be: come here, go away, come here, go away. They don't know what they want. And people who have experienced disorganized attachment are typically people who have grown up with a lot of mental illness, addiction. Like sometimes it was great and sometimes it wasn't, that like a child never knew what they were coming home to. And that would be a perfect example. And it would display with mixed behaviours, both seeking and avoiding closeness stemming from inconsistent caregiving or unresolved past trauma. And relationships can feel like a source of comfort and fear.

Jeanne: [00:11:44] What it may look like is that sometimes they want intimacy and then they run from it. They are flitting from one thing to another, like they get easily bored, easily distracted. There's a fear of intimacy. I would say runners are a perfect example of disorganized attachment. They sometimes feel unworthy of love and they have difficulty depending on others or trusting others. So why are these so important? Because really, the blueprint for what we picked up as children becomes the operating manual for us as adults. And one of the best reads on attachment styles is a book called Attached by Amir Levine, M.D. and Rachel Heller, M.A, and they both wrote this fantastic book on the attachment styles and they use case studies throughout. So you'll see classic examples of people who are struggling with different styles and how it exhibits and how they transmuted that, more importantly. So it's important to know that our attachment styles influence how we personally interact as children, as we just discussed. But it ultimately becomes a demise in our adult relationships, because what worked then does not work as an adult. So, how does this become the demise of us in adult relationships later in life? I feel like we needed to keep our life predictable and safe as children, but yet, as adults we want to feel completely understood and validated for whatever it is we're experiencing. And if we can't express that in some sort of adult sense of self, we will do it in a juvenile, childlike sense of self.

Jeanne: [00:13:21] And that may look like I'm feeling completely misunderstood, nobody's getting it, it's all on me. And then you go into this poor core wounded self. And so we need to learn how to hold on to ourselves in moments of great emotional distress, and not abandon ourselves when others cannot meet our needs. This is crucial. If you take anything away, it should be this. Our core wounds will become activated in our relationships, no doubt. But what happens is we start to feel that that other person isn't there for us. And that may be true or may not be true. But when we go into victim mode and we go into our core essential wounds that no one loves us or no one gets us, or these extremes, especially in language, it's important for us to become more curious as to what drives us to believe and behave in certain ways, and how and where we get stuck. When we feel confronted or misunderstood, we feel like someone's attacking us or we're not being understood. We can have a reparative experience and have more of an adult sense of self when we are interacting, rather than default to that younger, childlike self with that core wound. So this is why it's so important to know thyself to be true. And it's something I repeat often.

Jeanne: [00:14:47] Like, I know who I am and what do I mean by that is I know my vulnerabilities. I know where I can get stuck, I can get hurt, I can fall off the path very easily. But if I have a sense of overconfidence in everything in my life, and I still don't have the curiosity of a student, but rather a teacher, I'm screwed. So this is why it's important to know thyself to be true. We must have a sense of self in that I am being distinct from the relationship. I am being responsible for my actions, my beliefs, while still being in a relationship and not feeling threatened for being who I am. And I want to have a sense of agency. You want to have a sense of autonomy within the relationship and without the relationship. So an interdependence, which is what you hope your young adult children will be, your teenagers become. They go from dependance to interdependence and then ultimately independance. And this is no different in a relationship when we're mature in a relationship. We want to go from having a sense of self and that I'm distinct from the relationship, while I'm still in the relationship, and not feel threatened for being my most authentic self. So I hope that sits with you guys, because I think that's something that we're not taught in relationship counseling too often. And the reason being, we may learn that in individual counseling, but not in couples counseling.

Jeanne: [00:16:19] The reason being, I'm going to unpack that a little later on, is we get caught in the content versus context struggle. And once we go through that, that will make sense. Okay. So just, I'm going to park that there right now and we're going to circle back to that. I think it takes time, practice, and curiosity, and intrigue to want to know how we can be better. Better humans, better in relationships, better in most aspects of life. And sometimes we don't want to look at ourselves because we're quick to see our flaws before we can see our strengths, and therefore it's easier to point to the other person. If I don't have to take responsibility, I can just pin it on you. And that's typically what happens in a lot of relationships. It's interesting because we're quick to give our friends compassion and grace for any of their transgressions, but not ourselves. Rather than admit that you know what, maybe I was wrong in how I handled that conversation, we're going to pin it on the other person. The other person's going to be defensive, naturally. Then you're going to get into offense, defense about what you're arguing about, which has nothing to do with anything, because I believe couples have the same fight over and over again. And this could apply to couples. It could be applied to family members, children, parents. We have the same fight because it's about context, not content, as I was saying just briefly.

Jeanne: [00:17:38] So it's important for us to understand what drives us to behave in certain ways and how we can get stuck, especially when we feel confronted or misunderstood. So ultimately, we want to have a reparative experience and have an adult sense of self. And that can only happen when you're in a growth mindset. If you can't believe anything can change, then nothing's going to change. But we have to take the opportunity to look closely at our own triggers, our patterns, our beliefs, and learn where we can and may need to make adjustments and fine-tune. It's also what I call a lifestyle redesign to realign with our truest desires. Because if we stay in those old attachment styles and we're doing it because that's all we've known, and we're scared to change because we're terrified of what may be, the unknown, then all we're going to do is self-perpetuate that cycle. Now, one of the other things I see often in relationships is too often we fall into the mentality of just because it's always been this way, it has to stay that way and it can't change. And that's not true at all. Relationships are meant to be renegotiated. We are not the same parents. We're not the same people when we first start in the relationship. And we come together at the start, we have to grow. And this is why you hear about couples growing apart. They can grow apart.

Jeanne: [00:19:00] They can grow apart and come back together again, or one person grows first and the other doesn't catch up, or they can grow and come back. There's all sorts of possibilities, but we don't grow when we keep everything the status quo. We only grow when there's change, because if one partner changes, it forces the other partner to change even if they don't change because the relationship has changed. So we grow the most in our relationships, and I see people so often raise walls and barriers because they've been hurt in love before. So they, instead of getting hurt, they're not going to even allow love in. And that's how people believe it's working, that they are independent and lucky. And I think collectively we have to raise our standards for ourself and for others. And negotiating healthy change is what we do. When we know better, we do better. And I hear a lot of people resign themselves in relationships. Personally, I couldn't do that. I feel like if life is half-lived and there's so much joy or heartache can come from a relationship, why would you just stay? I understand circumstances can be more challenging for people, and I'm not saying that we avoid at all costs, but what I'm saying is that when we feel like we settled into something that really is very different than what we had hoped for, it's okay to negotiate change.

Jeanne: [00:20:28] It's really what makes relationships come alive, is when we don't put up with the status quo. And you'll hear often that a person is triggered by another person, and which is often seen as negative and something to avoid, but triggers are really a good thing. They show us what we need to pay attention to and what still needs healing. So what most people get wrong about relationships is that they are doing all the work. They're the ones who are growing. The other partner isn't. And that could be true. It may not be true. But we must remember that everyone has their own unique timeline, and especially if there hasn't been a growth mindset or someone's been stuck in unhealed trauma or adversity of any kind and feels threatened, shamed, and blamed for behaving in a certain way, that's going to show up even more so. And for me, I grew up decades before my husband because I was forced into recovery. I don't think I would have woken up willingly had I not found recovery. I was forced into it. I probably would be very defensive, argumentative, still, and similar to the person I was 30 plus years ago, rather than being a more self-actualized version of myself. And we need to respect each other's timeline. It doesn't mean that you take a passive approach, but rather the right approach, which is to work on you first so you understand your needs and then engage your partner.

Jeanne: [00:21:53] We must get clear on what our needs and desires are before we can even engage our partner. Otherwise we don't know what we want. So what can you do if you're in a relationship that has some concerning issues and you seem to be dancing around them, or one person is not going to change? First and foremost, you must assess for safety. That's paramount and it can't be discounted as not important. If there's any substance abuse, domestic abuse or abuse of any kind, criminal behaviour, violence, then outside professional help is needed and you will need to protect yourself from escalating the cycle. And this requires delicate support that is beyond the scope of this show. So I really encourage if anyone is in that situation, you need to be discreet and you need to get professional help outside as to what steps you could possibly take to allow yourself to move forward to protect your safety. That's not going to be harmful for you in any way. So doing the work is to be in what I call self-inquiry. You're in inquiry with yourself. You're curious. You're sort of understanding, why did you do that? What drove you to do something when you thought you were very clear on something, suddenly you were compelled to do something different. And that happens to a lot of us. And the reason that compulsion really takes over is because it's linked to our emotional brain, which is part of our subconscious programming, which is where all of that falls apart for us.

Jeanne: [00:23:14] We think we're really clear on what we want. And then typically what happens is a somatic response. So the body experiences something that's very unsettling or activating and becomes dysregulated from a nervous system perspective. And then the brain takes over. It's not the brain, then the body. It's bottom up. And I will address that in a minute as well. Our significant relationships is a place where our unhealed trauma will show up first. Always. It's… They are the people no one would trust more than our parents, our children, our partners. And I think we can all agree on this. Hands up. Our significant relationships can also alter our brain chemistry as well, which is why when we're triggered by people closest to us, it can feel like an existential threat to our very survival unless we can neutralize quickly in these situations and not feel threatened and manage not to abandon ourselves in these moments. When I say abandon us to go into that poor, inconsolable self, that younger version of you that really can't pull themselves out. Also, we're also modeling behaviour typically, especially if there's other people around, other children around, we can either perpetuate trauma cycles or we can change the trajectory for not only this generation and others.

Jeanne: [00:24:26] It goes seven generations down. That's huge. Another misconception about relationships that we are each 50% responsible for our relationship. Fifty me, fifty you. You know, that's completely wrong. We all are 100% responsible for what we bring into the relationship, and only then can change happen if we take full responsibility. One of the misconceptions about fights is that people start to argue about what the other person is saying or doing, rather than what I call context is how that we are making that other person feel in that moment. So, for example, if I am having an argument and I'm trying to express something to my partner, my partner is dismissing me. I don't care what he's saying or what I did or didn't do. The issue is that I'm being dismissed or not validated or not heard. So that becomes bigger and that dynamic can play out over and over and over again, unless we understand what each other is trying to explain. So what happens is when we get into he said, she said, which is content, we're moving into an offense/defense position. That person says you're to blame. And this person said, well, if you didn't do that, I wouldn't have done that. And it goes into blame shame. That's not going to be helpful. It doesn't de-escalate anything. So we want to really focus on the problem being the problem, rather than what he or she is saying. So you may even ask yourself, what are you even fighting about?

Jeanne: [00:26:00] If you think back about a last argument with someone very close to you, you may even say to you, oh my God, we're doing this again? Like the same thing over and over again. Or what are we even fighting about anymore? It's way beyond this. It's not the content, guys. It's the context. What happens with, in these moments, we default to childlike behaviour where our core wounds are. I feel like someone's shaming me and blaming me. So then I come back with something to save myself and I put up a wall, or I attack back, which is how I operated as a child. And what you’ve got is basically you’ve got two adult bodies with children's brains running the show. It's literally like that. So we want to fixate on the context, not the content, because otherwise we lose what's really important. And how am I making that person feel who I truly care about? Let's get rid of the blame and shame which escalates the issues, rather than moves them to taking responsibility and accountability and making genuine amends. This is why it's imperative that each party take 100% responsibility for their part in what is going on. That's the only way a healthy relationship can survive. We all need to feel safe. We all need to be seen, witnessed, and validated for what we experience. It's a requirement of holding safe space, not being discounted, as it often was in our childhood.

Jeanne: [00:27:31] And this is the place where true intimacy is created, not from a place of threat. You know, years of defensiveness arguments can melt away in these moments of true accountability and responsibility. “I'm really sorry. I really didn't mean to make you feel that way.” And when you can move beyond your trauma wounds and your inconsolable self, that's where true miracles can happen in relationships. Another issue I often see go wrong, and I speak from personal experience, is when trying to navigate difficult conversations is to never try to resolve an argument when it's happening in the heat of the moment or disagreement, especially if voices are raised. It will just inflame the situation and the problem cannot be resolved when there is screaming or mudslinging and everyone is dysregulated. What it means is when I feel threatened, my voice goes up, which means I'm dysregulated from a nervous system perspective. And that means there's nothing. My executive brain is offline. Nothing can happen in that moment, and it takes about half an hour for your nervous system to come back to a regulated state once it's been activated. So it's best to have, what we now do is we have a prior agreement in place that if either side becomes dysregulated in the course of a conversation, we just know we're not going to continue the conversation. We will recircle back and we will navigate it, but not in the heat of the moment, but rather once everyone can think clearly.

Jeanne: [00:29:03] And that requires time. And then we can come from a place of more compassion where there's no emotional threat. We can actually think clearly, which is really the whole goal here. So never try to resolve an argument or a disagreement when there's raised voices. There is absolutely no way any good can come from there. Now, our significant emotional relationships is a place where everything will show up for us, especially our unhealed trauma, and no one will trigger us more than our partners and children. We talked about that. But interestingly enough, this closeness in relationships can actually alter our brain chemistry, which is why people are so triggered by the people closest to us. It can feel like a true life or death situation at the time. And we have to survive. And unless we can come back to neutral fairly quickly and not feel threatened or managed, to abandon ourselves in these moments, it will continue. The cycle will continue. So I guess what I'm trying to say is there is a brain change, and they've done MRIs on this where the structure of the brain changes in dynamics. So if you look at someone who's in a very, let's say, explosive relationship, but let's not even take something as aggressive as that. Let's take something like an anxious relationship where someone is more anxious than the other partner.

Jeanne: [00:30:25] The other partner can become much more anxious by just being closely associated with that person because they're always activated. And unless that other partner knows how to hold on to themselves from a nervous system perspective and keep regulated emotionally, whether it's through certain tools and techniques and breathwork or whatever, we're going to experience the same. And so we have to learn to have a sense of self within these relationships if we truly want to heal. And it's interesting because we're wired from a biological perspective to crave connection as we do any other fundamental human need, such as shelter, food, sleep, and intimacy. Connection is a vital human need. It keeps us grounded, provides a sense of safety, and it releases oxytocin naturally. So what does it mean to be in a safe relationship? That's what you guys want to know, isn't it? To be witnessed and validated for what you experience. I see you, I understand how hard this is for you. How can I help you? Rather than to be dismissed and discounted and told yourself to pull it together, or it's not important, or you're overthinking or whatever you may be in your most vulnerable moments. To show a side of yourself, whether willingly or unwillingly, because you are not able to contain it and then be discounted, is really like a knife through the heart. It's very, very painful. And how many times have you witnessed, I'm very sensitive because I suffered so much abuse as a young child, so I see things that most other people wouldn't see.

Jeanne: [00:31:56] But how many times have you witnessed a child being reprimanded for crying or being asked, what? What's the matter with you? Or maybe we are asking too much of children when they don't have the emotional capacity to form a developmental appropriate response to stop crying. And yet we're asking them to do so. My mother loved me so much that in her earnest, for me to have a better life than her, she shamed me in wanting to do better, which was how she showed her love. Her love was, she thought she was doing what was best for me, because she wanted me to have things that she never had. Because she was compounding that because of my history, which she wasn't aware of at some of the time, and the fact that she never told me she loved me because she was scared that if she complimented me or told me how much she loved me, that in England, you would say you were going to get a big head. It made me feel that I could never get anything right. And she didn't realize the effect it was having on me, or that maybe there was a better way to support or empower me. And adults need to understand appropriate childhood development. This is why it's so critical that we're not asking more of a child at a certain age or stage of development.

Jeanne: [00:33:11] People look for all kinds of ways to solve problems to get themselves out of a jam. I know I did. But many times they try to reinvent themselves and don't recognize whether they move from one country or start a new relationship, you're going to be the same person unless you actually change that part of the behaviour you're trying to outrun from. You are the common denominator in your life, and you're going to follow yourself wherever you go. I say this over and over and over again. I believe know thyself to be true. I think many of us are blind in terms of what we want to discount about ourselves, rather than looking at integrating those parts or shadows that we don't like are our greatest gifts. And one of my favourite sayings is another one, “Everything in life is grist for the mill,” meaning whatever happens in life is a learning and growing opportunity for us all. We may not always like it when it's happening to us or for us, but the point is that we will either win or learn from the experience. So we're going to come away with something of value. How we show up relationally will determine the quality of our life, from our health to our happiness. And often I see people with substance history not advocate for themselves because they have shame around their past, so they don't think they have the right to ask for anything they may need in a relationship, because they don't want to draw attention to their history.

Jeanne: [00:34:34] And as we talked about before, relationships can be negotiated, renegotiated. And this is something people often miss. They settle, they think that they're stuck in whatever paradigm they're in. Just because it's always been this way, doesn't mean it has to stay this way. And even more so if we're unhappy. We don't have to resign ourselves to putting up with something and getting by. We all change and grow for better and worse and at different times as well, so we can change our non-negotiables as to what we require to be in a relationship with ourself, with someone else, and look at our boundaries and our communications. But we have to have a sense of self outside of the relationship as well, so we can bring ourselves fully into the relationship. We can't be a self in the relationship only; we have to know who we are in order to bring something of value into. So some of the lessons learned from my 44, soon to be 45-year-old marriage, is we all grow up together. Unhealed parts will get triggered the most with the ones that are closest, without saying. We have to assume that the other is doing the best they can. What may appear as unwillingness may be a trauma or capacity issue.

Jeanne: [00:35:46] Relationships can be negotiated. And we talked about that over and over again. And different people have different needs. Intimacy starts with honesty, not deflection. Years of disliking anger can be melted away under the right conditions. We can agree to disagree, just do so respectfully. Open communication is a gateway, a place to talk, not necessarily problem-solve. We can agree to disagree, but I think you have to look at those other tenants I just spoke about before you make that assumption that not everybody's going to come to the table. And being married for decades now, I would say that I don't expect my husband to be any more me than he expects me to be any more him. I think we have to respect who each other is and understand that yes, there can be some change, there can be growth, but they're not going to change into maybe your ideal partner or the person that you thought would be ideal for you. So I want you to really think about that, because that's being realistic, is recognizing there are limitations in who one can be. I think another challenge that couples fall into in traditional roles is where one wants to solve the problem rather than understand the problem and hold a space for validation. And I think women want to be understood, not necessarily the other partner go into problem-solving. And this is more characteristic of a male role, but I'm not talking gender here, really.

Jeanne: [00:37:19] It's just that one partner may want to solve the problem. The other partner just wants to be heard. It's really that simple. So this is where true healing takes place, where we can see, hear, and validate the other. And taking time to clarify our own perspective and our feelings and desired outcomes before we even go into a conversation can be incredibly helpful. So what do you do when you're feeling stuck? Ask for what you need right now. Maybe it's a request for the other to be present and truly listen with their undivided attention. State what you want. If the other person can do this, it will foster a sense of connection. “I'd like to share something that's important to me right now, and I'm asking that you listen and not go into problem-solving mode.” It may be that simple. So you're starting with the context. You may want to frame why it matters to you and your intention. I value our relationship and want to talk to you about something that's been on my mind. Use “I feel” language as compared to “you.” “You” makes someone very defensive. Let the person know “I'm feeling confused by what happened, and I'm hoping you can help me understand.” Relationships can be the most important lever towards our happiness, our vitality, and joy. So we must devote the care and respect to making them better.

Jeanne: [00:38:42] Make your communication a practice. Life is a practice. We only get better at it. I'd like to leave you with, look at your relationship as fertile ground. You're planting seeds. They will sprout eventually. They may not sprout as quick as you would like, but they will definitely sprout. If you plant an apple seed, you're going to get an apple tree. If you're going to plant a relationship seed, you're going to get some change in the relationship. And it only takes one person to change in order for a change to occur. So we give others grace that we don't often give ourselves, and there will always be teachable moments for us. The question or not is whether or not you will answer the call. So until next time, how are you going to stay Naturally High? Thank you for joining me for this episode of Naturally High. If this conversation resonated with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or reach out to me through the links in the show notes. Together, we're changing the way the world approaches mental health, addiction, and trauma. Remember to like, subscribe, and leave a rating for Naturally High on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen so you never miss an episode. For more inspiration and resources, follow me on Instagram at @therecovery_concierge or visit therecoveryconcierge.com. Stay empowered, keep rising, and I'll see you in the next episode.