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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Liron: Episode three from 35 or
36 or 37 of season one or season
two or season three . The best
of the fourth episode, the recap.
Chasing the Game IV.
This one is about the player, Matt.
That's what we love to talk about
matt: Because everyone says development.
Parents say it, clubs say it, trainers
say it, coaches say it, but the word
can mean almost anything if you do
not clearly define it, or better
yet, understand that definition
Liron: Yeah, when, we started the show,
remember I had hair, we were asking the
same questions, that a lot of parents ask.
Is my kid training enough?
Are they on the same team?
Should they play up?
the playing up thing, my God.
Should they get more private session?
Why does my kid look great in
training and disappear in game?
And I always say parents, but it's,
like, it's we have nothing to do with
it, but these are actually our questions.
matt: Yeah, your questions.
over the season, the
answers got more demanding.
The guests kept pushing us away from
appearances and toward transfer.
Does the training transfer to the game?
Does winning teach anything?
Does winning teach everything?
Does the player recognize the moment?
Does the environment create
real problems to solve?
And is the player capable?
Liron: Yeah.
So, like just like in our earlier one,
we had to start with Sean McCafferty from
New York Red Bulls, the academy director.
Just so much in that, in that, episode.
this is a very short clip, but
the reason it works is Sean gives
us the danger of easy success.
If you win all the time,
there's zero development
matt: It is the right first
soundbite because it sets up the
whole tension of the episode.
Winning is not bad.
False progress is bad
We don't want, like, we go out every week,
I win five zero against every team.
Nobody's developing. It's a waste of time.
I would love to even see the fourteens
next year. Maybe they're playing some
the players should be almost winning a
third, drawing a third and losing a third
f just to face it, every type of emotion,
Um,
because for me, that's development.
We call it false progress. If you're
winning all the time, it's just false
progress. You think you're better than you
a lot of money in going international to
Brazil, to Europe, to show them that the
Northeast is a, a very talented area, but
and compared to world football,
this is a really
challenging environment. Getting here is
difficult. Staying here is even more
difficult. So embrace the difficulty.
Don't play the victim like a victim is
blaming
every single thing. Everybody's at fault,
everything. The weather, everything
except, well, it's just going through a
and again, not be victims.
Liron: Matt, this is
that fine line, right?
It's the dangerous line
for parents, us included.
one-third lost is an
acceptable loss ratio.
I don't know.
It forces us to ask, what are we here for?
What do we want from this game?
Is it about winning, or is there
a little bit more behind that?
matt: I can't imagine the parents
at MLS professional academies
being satisfied with one-third loss
percentages.
But we also did not want this
episode to become anti-winning.
That would've been too easy
and also wrong, and competition
is part of development
Liron: so later in the, in the season, it
was such a big one to end the season with.
We got, Juan Santamaria from Cedar
Stars, and he brought in this completely
lucid way of thinking about winning.
it's not a dirty word.
He gave us that missing counterweight,
and this point is what drives us through
matt: Yeah, and winning is
very much part of development.
The problem is not wanting to win.
the problem is when winning becomes
the only thing adults can understand,
and this is something that Evan
Rosenthal at Manhattan Kickers talked
a lot about, and they work with kids
at a very young age up through U12.
Winning matters.
Learning to win and caring
about winning really matters
Liron: Yeah, here's Juan
winning is part of development as well.
you're teaching a person to compete and to
want to win. you can't be okay with...
when-- You learn a lot more when you lose
than when you win, they say.
But at the end of the day, winning matters
because winning drives the individual, it
drives the collective as well. it's just
develop, you get older, you look at the
sidelines. as kids are younger, and we
always say this, which kid is okay at 9,
game by three or four goals?
If you start seeing a kid that's angry and
he's frustrated, that's what I wanna
see.because Wanting to win is part of
later on in your life you're competing, so
you have to start early on and trying to
be the best.
it's just how it works. you have to wanna
win at everything that you do. You wanna
try to be the best. You wanna
compete. I don't think it's right to sit
there and say, "Oh, well, we wanna make 25
passes before we score a goal." Okay,
you teaching them to win?
'Cause winning is part of development.
'Cause if you don't win, if you progress
and you don't win on the first team,
a winning mentality. I'm not saying win by
all means necessary. Don't get me wrong.
if you have your methodology of how you
wanna play and how you wanna do things,
then you have to stick
by it. you can't just sit there and be
okay with not winning. Well, how do you
solve that problem? 'Cause ultimately the
it's
just so important. So important.
That was a big
matt: Juan is wonderful and,
look, he gives us the balance.
Development without
competition can become soft.
Competition without
development can become empty
Liron: Yeah, so maybe this
is the episode, right?
It's not winning versus development,
which initially I think we kinda were
in the, "Ah, it's okay. It's not all
about winning." But like you said,
the more we grew into it, better
winning, honest winning, winning
at the right game, winning that
asks the player to solve a problem
matt: Yeah, Nil Congost from EOS Football
in Barcelona brings the next layer.
He gives us a Catalan and Barcelona
lens, but without the romance.
The environment matters, but does
not magically fix or make a player
Liron: we chose this clip because it
punctuates the idea of the fantasy, right?
"Oh, I'm gonna go to Europe, I'm
gonna play for Barca." there's another
Disney world of soccer out there,
but, talent still has to be shaped.
Culture does help, but it
doesn't replace hard work
at the end, football is very emotional,
right? So the dreams are part of, of the
emotions and, and, and what you're seeking
I think that talent is talent, and I
think that you need to work and shape this
talent. Do I think that the environment we
have here in Spain, based on what I
because it, it challenges the talent. If
the talent is not challenged, then you
don't grow the talent because it's enough.
Whatever thing you do, it's gonna be
enough. when you come to a, to a,
environment that it's
more challenging because you have less
time space, they're pushing you, you have
less time to think, you have to be more
So usually what we see, 'cause we've had,
we've been also very lucky to have very
strong talents from, from North America
here. they had to face these challenges,
right? families, what they were telling me
is
that, that we came here 'cause he was not
being pushed in a way that
he's being here. Does it mean that anyone
who is gonna come here, to Barcelona is
gonna become professional or, you know, of
actually make it in Barcelona. It's
probably the worst, place possible because
you also have more players trying it,
yet it's one of the hardest to actually
make it,
football is about experience. The more
specific that your. repetitions are during
the trainings or your daily basis,
then the easier it's gonna be to transfer
and relate to the game, right?
So if you are at the end gonna play in a
environment that you're not gonna have
time and space to think and to
execute, then how do you expect to perform
at that level if you have not practiced
that level before? So that's why I think
that sets the level here, that the player
here can develop,
Another great, interview you missed.
matt: Yeah.
Well, there's a, there,
there is a theme here
Liron: Yeah, I mean, I mean, talk
about, talk about reducing the fantasy.
This, this brilliant soccer mind just,
just narrows it down something so thin.
as you start getting towards skill, right,
it's executing those techniques based on
situations, based on variables. as that
pendulum swings more on the skill side,
you get what I think gets a little bit
misinterpreted, which is tricks. Skills
stand out, I mean, just receiving in
pockets on both feet, and you're like,
"Wow, that, that guy's technical." I mean,
thrown at him, tight enough to turn,
gathering enough information. His first
touch isn't slowing down his thought
'cause his touch was so clean. So I do
think it's, it's that foundational
ability, right, to do what, what the game
skillful. For me, like I said, I can
speak, for, from my experience, I think a
lot of it requires context. And, and I
pa- parent is looking at the intent,
because the actual skill, I, I, I'm
notorious for saying in my environment,
my, my program, and I've told them
straight up, I'm like, "I'm not super
impressed with technique," because
to do the technique. So I always say the
skill isn't the skill, it's the
recognition of when to do the skill that,
and looking at hard skills, I mean, kids
can dribble the life out of cones these
days, right? if it doesn't translate,
parents, it's looking at the intent,
right? Because there's a lot of variables.
If you're moving up from a lower level
point to try and, and do, like, have the
intent to do that skill or, or that play,
right?
And if they're not, what are the factors
that's missing?
And I think that's what... Ultimately,
that's what a supplemental trainer should
be able to help bridge that gap, right?
guys on. Your dribbling ability hasn't
dropped. The problem is it takes you three
seconds to get ahold of the ball, and at
Liron: Well, how do we get these guests??
My God.
okay, I'll just say it very simply.
but the skill is recognizing
when to do something.
That's the difficult skill
matt: That's profound
Liron: Second episode in a row.
matt: Can the player see the moment?
Can they choose the right
action under pressure?
That is the bridge between training
and the game, and I think, at least
for me, it's something once we had
s- this discussion with Christian
that I can pay attention to, right?
Understanding in the moment what the skill
is or what the technique is where you
can beat a defender, something to, to,
to understand and to watch for that clip
explains something every parent has seen.
A player can look clean in a
session and still struggle in a
match because the session did not
ask the same questions as the game
Liron: it's frustrating, right?
obviously forget how the money you spend,
the effort of, of being in these sessions
and chasing it Because a nice session,
oh, this has been an intense training.
It, it's comforting, right?
The, the cones, the
touches, it all looks good.
The video, the finishes, but I don't
know, this is not what this is about
matt: Yeah, Christian
Gonzalez adds another piece.
General practice creates general results.
We chose this because it supports
Silva without repeating him.
More reps are not
automatically better reps
We strive for clarity, right? I can't
stress that enough. that's the only way
kids learn and develop by having clear
on, in technical terms, that's what you're
gonna get. look, I always say this to my
coaches. I say, and I say this to players,
lot doesn't mean you're gonna get better
at it, right?
We all drive a lot, and I know for myself,
as I've gotten older, I've gotten worse,
right? There's been no personal practice
in driving for me, right? Like I, I
started picking up the phone, like all
sorts of things, right? It's just same
If you have a lot of general practices,
you're gonna
get a lot of general outcomes.
Wow.
So I try to drive home being specific and
like when I show up, I, and I, so I'm
talking to my coach, I ask him, what
principle are you working on? What are we
working on here? And does everything that
you planned feature that principle? Like,
Did
we push the players on or not?
It's not that they're aligned, it's just a
prerequisite of working at the club,
right? So when I hire people, I say,
And there's a lot of flexibility in what
we do. And, you know, choosing the
activities and, and how, you know, your
But the team
tactical principles are, what and how we
play our system of play that's gotta be
followed or else we don't achieve
I think the other part that, like I stress
all the time and,
you know, our coaches have gotten really
good at it, is ball roll time. Right?
I see coaches talk when I see, when I
watch sessions and coaches talk more than
like a minute, I start going crazy.
If coaches are talking or the ball's not
rolling 30 minutes out of every practice,
you're losing a practice a week on just
Not doing it. Like the player's not doing
anything. So we stress ball roll time
Liron: Yeah, it is, a boring truth, Matt.
It's a boring, boring truth
matt: Well, that, that's
perfect for us, Liron.
Liron: Wait, the truth or the boring?
General practice gives general outcome.
Well, I guess we can
close the show after this.
It's not gonna get better.
matt: Y- yeah, but you know something?
I mean, of all these episodes we've
done and these incredible people
we've had the privilege of speaking
to, Christian talked a lot about
clarity and about communication.
And from an-- my own lived experience,
the clarity and the communication has
been one of the biggest challenges,
I think for the players at times,
and certainly for the parents.
And it's something that's
clearly top of mind for, for
Christian and New York Soccer Club
So Evan Rosenthal from
Manhattan Kickers gives us the
cultural version of that point.
Step overs before weak foot
passing, style before substance,
Instagram before game understanding.
Not on the top of the list for Evan
Liron: No, that n- he's not impressed.
matt: Jeez.
No
Liron: look, we, we, we chose
this because every parent has
this in their mind, right?
Um, but it's, it's, it's funny on one
hand, we're laughing, but it's kinda,
it- we're trying to be serious, right?
The market rewards something that
looks impressive, but the game rewards
something completely different.
Here it is
I feel soccer's a team game and you have
to be really motivated. You have to
motivate yourself within your team. And
influence is, is that big or that helpful,
what they do. And I, I just see so much of
it gone, like a kid will, will see, or one
coaches will see on Instagram that a coach
is working with him doing step overs and
the kid can't even pass with his weak
And they're, they're just stuff like that
at all different
levels is, is happening. And I feel that
parents get sucked into it. They look at
it almost like, if it's like math or
then, but the tutor. Sometimes that now
I've talked to the guys who do, there's
guys who are considered top trainers
there's a, a disconnect from what's really
happening. And I think kids now are
training harder than they've ever trained
and more than they've ever trained. And I
it's, a
team game. It's a, you have to be able to
like, sacrifice and fight for the team.
And those kids who have that mentality are
the kids who succeed and who focus
on the team. If you're playing for four
different teams and you have a trainer
who's telling you one thing, I think the
ball to the face in the wall and on the
cold weather slide into block a shot.
And those traits, which are so important
to soccer, that that commitment is,
is not, it's, that's not the focus when
you're doing, you know, cone dribbling.
Issues of your game that could help you
over.
we've seen it in our community a lot
how kids have changed through the years.
Those we thought, we, who we thought
at a young age were one place are
nowhere to be seen now and vice versa
matt: You know, Liron, a fun, a funny
anecdote though, um, my, daughter's U8,
U9 team, the coach did a wonderful job
after each week of summarizing what they
were working on in training and having,
having how that was gonna try to translate
into the matches, and a lot of these
girls are just starting to play for the
first time, and he talked about how they
spent an entire session on step overs.
And, and I immediately went to
Evan and, in, in that episode
and I was like, "I-- we can't do
this. I, I've gotta talk to him."
Liron: I, I almost wish, I
matt: Why are we working on step overs?
They're literally
Liron: a show to talk about that stuff.
matt: Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
I'll find somebody for you
Liron: Yeah, sure.
I… So, our ne- the ne- the next
clip is, Matt Pollen, Coach Matt
Pollen, who, from, Naples FC, the
head coach, and he, he gives us
this idea of elite end correction.
What does that mean?
He talks about the last 15%, right?
The difference between good and
truly elite, and it, it's back
to not new tricks or a new skill.
It's just about doing that action,
that action at that absurd level
matt: Yeah, Naples FC is not
to be confused with Napoli.
this is Naples in Florida, and
it's a USL Ligue 1 team that just
launched this year very successfully.
Um, we chose this also because it,
it humbles the highlight culture.
The best players are often not doing more.
They're seeing faster, choosing
better, and executing cleaner
don't think though, it's like a, magic
eight ball with a 16-year-old to be able
to say Hey, he'll make it pro or not. one
enjoy the grind, which is 16 to 23 when
they become a pro?
And are they gonna still have the love for
the game and be okay sacrificing
everything else in their life for this
goal? And that gets really hard, starts in
high school. You don't get to travel on
just playing soccer and traveling to
tournaments.
And then in college it's like,
Hey, you're sacrificing this, this, and
this of your college experience just for
this
goal, understanding that only 1% is gonna
make it. And you see a lot of people drop,
so it's not even like 16. Can you be a pro
It's like, do you have the ambition?
you look at the average player in the
average game, the passes they make,
there's a million amateur players that can
those passes, Besides like Mesi, 85% of
what he does on the field is not crazy.
Now, Messi, the last 15% that he does
is the best in the world, which makes him
elite, But more often than not, he gets
the ball, he plays one, two, touch, and
top level and they go, oh, I could play, I
can make that pass. I could do it. And
don't see that 15% of that special that
and they're not willing to work hard to
become elite at that. And their mentality
is like, oh, I can, I can do the simple
sacrifice all those things. When I
graduated college, I think I missed like
24 of my friends' weddings because I had
I couldn't go. Christmas, I went home for
two days because I had to train because I
was trying to get my first professional
contract. And a lot of people, when it
saying it's right or wrong, but if you
wanna be a pro you have to be willing to
sacrifice
[INSERT GUEST CLIP 7: MATT POLAND]
Liron: It's not simple, Matt.
people take it for granted, but
it's actually the most complicated
thing probably is to make the right
decision under pressure, and the right
decision is the simple one when you
see it on TV or see it from the side.
But in real time, takes an enormous
amount of work and dedication.
matt: Yeah.
and, and this, this clip, it paired
directly with Christian Silva.
Recognition and execution.
Simple actions under pressure.
This is not basic.
That is elite
Liron: And then we get to
patience, because if development
is real, it cannot only belong
to the kids who look ready early.
It's-- takes a while for it to cook
matt: Dr. Chris Platts gives
us the risk of prediction.
God, we bring so much to this, Liron.
I mean, these diverse perspectives.
Coaches are asked to make decisions
about what a 15, 16-year-old
might become at 20 or 21.
That is an impossible job
dressed up as certainty
Liron: and now we chose this
clip because it protects the late
developers, but it also because
it makes everyone more humble.
Parents, coaches, clubs, none of us
can see the future, except maybe you
there's another element of this, which is
the late developers, and this has become a
real annoyance for me, that coaches are,
players when they're 18 or when they're
16, to an extent when they're 20. And what
we're asking coaches
to do is to predict the future. We're
saying, how do you think that kid gonna
turn out? He's 16 now. What do you think
It's five years of development and he
might not, you know, there's so much more
maturation to be done at that, that phase.
me, the getting out a alone, and if I was
in charge of a football pro, if somebody
was. Just being asked to go onto a working
how strategically do we keep players in
our system be out on loan to give them a
chance to
be a late developer? Because making a call
at 18 means you've either gotta be a
superstar and ready for 13 football at 18,
So, you're right, the
chances of getting in into a first team at
18 are tricky. The hardest part, I think
from the young players and their families.
vulnerability. But if you look at the top,
top, top players, they are the ones who
are willing to risk to be a bit
make mistakes, to learn from those
mistakes, to go again. And that's where
the psychology of it comes in. And this is
support them through those vulnerable
times
we visited a little bit in the, in the
part one of the best of, of the season
two, which is episode 37 called The Maze.
But we talked about this a little bit.
it's hard to recognize development,
and thinking you're recognizing
development still doesn't give
you any sense of certainty
matt: Which is why coaching matters
so much, not just the curriculum,
the judgment, the ability to see the
players in front of you and adapt.
And arguably, I mean, when I listen
to this clip again, I think about just
the overall methodology, the strategy
as it relates to late developers.
Like, what's the willingness for a club
at any level to really think about and
work with late developers so that there's
a plan in place for everybody where
all-- where, where everybody benefits?
Liron: maybe we're in
a hurry, Matt, right?
I maybe we're in a hurry as a
community, as in the United States,
because of college or because the,
the path supposedly splits at a
certain age, is that if you're
not a considered pro by what Dr.
Platts just said, by 17 or 18, well,
you're going to college or you're
pretty much done, and it's very
difficult from that point on to go pro.
But in a way, if you think about how
we grew up with soccer, I mean, I grew
up in, in the European side of soccer.
You weren't turning pro at 17.
It just did not happen, unless you were
one or two of, of the best of the best.
But there were no pro contracts given
to 16, 17, 18-year-old kids at the time.
That wasn't, that wasn't something normal
matt: Maybe the word pro
shouldn't even be used
Liron: Ah.
matt: until, until they're, until you're
at a certain point or, like, until a, a
kid or a player is at a certain point.
I mean, is that not a real
core part of this issue?
Like, doesn't this go back to what
Chris Platt said in a different clip
with us, which was understanding
what the parent wants and what the
player wants and what's realistic?
Because, I mean, the, the fact that
we're even using the word pro when
less than 1% of players become pros,
Liron: Yeah
matt: and l- and it's less than that at
the highest, highest levels, which is,
you know, back to another problem we've
talked about, where kids talk about
being a pro, and then they realize that
playing fourth division in the Netherlands
is, is something that's very real, and
not necessarily playing, you know, in
Liron: And hard.
And hard.
matt: Really hard.
Really hard.
Yeah.
Liron: Yeah.
No, you're right.
so but we, we can't close this, this
episode without talking about coaching.
We're not gonna give coaches a break.
Jose Campos from Orlando Academy,
Orlando City Academy, is gonna
close this episode, gives us a
little bit of coaching humility.
he talks about model.
You can have a philosophy, a model,
ask all the right questions, but
not all players fit a certain model.
And to help a player grow, if you're not
seeing that, you're missing the point
Sometimes coaches wanna play one way, but
in, their tryouts they get 22 players,
they have to pick 18. And you get what you
trying to fit a square into a circle, it's
not gonna work. So if you have those 18
players in a pay to play model where you
You as a coach should fit to the players
that you have. And we, my recommendation,
Orlando City, we don't, we have the luxury
style and bring the players who want, who
fit that style. But you don't have the
luxury to recruit, to scout and to bring
You should look at who is in front of you
and you adapt
to them. And I think as a national team
coach,
What 11 style play formation game model,
everything fit these 11 guys and depending
on the generation might
change. Spain is harder because the entire
country plays it that way and the develop
plays that way. And it's a it's a country
It's an identity. England very
transitional. It's a country identity. I
don't think in the US is if the US is so
because soccer is still too young in this
country and the country's too big. And I
said before, you have too many cultures,
They okay, this is who we're,
so I'll adapt my, if I were the US
national team coach, I will adapt myself
to who are my 30 best player? Okay.
can I fit them to make it work and then go
with them. So be adaptable to them.
So, if my kid, let's say, was lucky enough
to get a trial at,
you know, you know, maybe h-
maybe what we need to do is just
get all these incredible guests
to just interview each other.
I think, I think what nobody
needs is you and I because this
just…
matt: we've, we've heard that before.
Liron: We did, yeah, and th-
this episode, prove it for sure.
look, Matt, this was a privilege
to do, to talk about it like that.
And, um, I think it, it showed
how much has changed in us, right?
It's our journey too as parents,
and we hope to our listeners too.
We started asking what makes a kid better,
which was the simple question, but we
ended up with very difficult answers
matt: Yeah.
I would say the change
is theoretical, though.
I mean, I'd love to say it's real.
I hope it's real, in us, that is.
We're getting there day by day.
Liron: listen, people,
these clips are for you.
they're not trying to dissuade you
from the game or make you think that
it's all bad and things are impossible.
It's about us as parents educating
ourselves to know what to ask, to know
what to look for, and to always remember
that we're surrounded by a community of
those that really want our kids to succeed
matt: Yeah, competition with purpose,
winning that teaches, training that
transfers, recognition not just technique.
Simple acts too.
What is that?
next week is the finale, The Long Game.
After the maze, the cost, and
the player, we ask the question
What are we really chasing?
Liron: after that, going on vacation.
Matt, I'll see you in a week.
matt: Liron, you're the best.
Liron: Bye.