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Join feminist coaches Taina Brown and Becky Mollenkamp for casual (and often deep) conversations about business, current events, politics, pop culture, and more. We’re not perfect activists or allies! These are our real-time, messy feminist perspectives on the world around us.
This podcast is for you if you find yourself asking questions like:
• Why is feminism important today?
• What is intersectional feminism?
• Can capitalism be ethical?
• What does liberation mean?
• Equity vs. equality — what's the difference and why does it matter?
• What does a Trump victory mean for my life?
• What is mutual aid?
• How do we engage in collective action?
• Can I find safety in community?
• What's a feminist approach to ... ?
• What's the feminist perspective on ...?
Becky Mollenkamp (00:00.844)
Good morning, afternoon, evening. Good day, sir. How are you?
Taina Brown she/hers (00:04.826)
Good day. I'm all right. I'm all right. How are you?
Becky Mollenkamp (00:09.486)
Good. Good. I'm coming in amped and ready to talk about something. I'll yeah, I'm a star this today. I'm not really amped. I just had a messy experience that I'm willing to own up to my side of some of the messiness and also whatever. So my son's my son is in fourth grade and they are learning about early American history right now.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:13.402)
Okay.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:34.638)
And I was looking over some of his papers that had come home and I noticed he had written the word slaves. And I asked him about that and I said, so are you learning the term slaves? And he said, yes. And I said, has your teacher ever said enslaved people? And he said, no. And so we talked a little bit about the difference and why it matters and told him that I was going to reach out to his teacher to to just check in on that. I don't know what the state curriculum is. I didn't know if that's what they're supposed to be teaching, whatever. His teacher's a white woman.
His school is 33 % black, 40 % white, and then the other mix.
and kids are in there. Not that it matters because if you're a white teacher teaching to all white kids, we still need to really think about how we talk about topics. And I think there's an added layer of responsibility and stuff that comes into the mix when you're a white woman teaching a class that's got a lot of children who are not white, who are Black, who an ancestral history with this topic and all of that.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:18.584)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:30.521)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:38.999)
So anyway, I reached out. I was sent a very nice email. Thank you very much. I felt very good about it. That was just like, hey, his paperwork came home. He was using the word slaves. I asked if that was the terminology he was learning. He said yes. And I said, I don't know if this is the curriculum or what. But I'm including a, I'm going to include this resource from.
Teaching Tolerance, Southern Poverty Law Center's project. And it's this really wonderful resource about talking about tough subjects. It's like teaching, I think it's called Teaching Hard History or something. And it's about slavery in the US. And they have one for like K to five, and then they have one for like older kids. So I sent her the one for K to five, and I said, this resource talks about how to talk about these things. And one of the issues is, you know, we don't use, the preference would be to use a term like enslaved people.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:03.065)
you
Taina Brown she/hers (02:12.249)
Mm-hmm. you
Becky Mollenkamp (02:30.589)
and enslavers or even colonizers, someone else corrected me on that, but enslavers and enslaved people versus slaves and slave owners. And I said, it's to center the humanity of the folks and the stripping of humanity. And I said, think this is, you know, it's important, language matters all the time. I think it's really important around these topics and especially important since, you know, you're a white woman, a white teacher in a classroom, in a school that's really diverse. She was, so I said that, well, first of all, let's just say I sent that at night.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:33.944)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:58.955)
like right before bed and then I got on threads and posted, it's 2026, I shouldn't have to be telling a fourth grade teacher that we use enslaved people instead of slaves now, like, and that had a little angry face. and I said, I of course, I said, of course she's a white woman, I shouldn't be surprised. Okay, that part might've been a little harsh, okay, I get it. I was a little annoyed because it's 20.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:02.4)
Mm-hmm.
Did the teachers come for you?
Becky Mollenkamp (03:24.247)
as I said, it's 2025, six, like, I think people should know this by now. So I went to bed a little like, just, and I went there just vent, just to like, I was aggravated. I'm like, why, what the hell? Like, come on. I didn't say a teacher's name, didn't say a school's name. I didn't say anything other than my side of the story, which is as a parent feeling a little frustrated that I'm having to like call this person in on this. My email to her separate story.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:27.095)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:46.199)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (03:49.943)
incredibly respectful, kind, helpful, shared a resource. I even gave her a little wiggle room, like, maybe this is just the curriculum, it's not you, whatever, right? I couldn't, it really was great. I've heard from other people's. The thread was a little bit snotty, but I was also frustrated. Okay, so I go to bed, I wake up, the racist trolls have started to show up on that thread, talking about how ridiculous I am, what a white, you know.
I'm white savior coming to solve racism today that, you know, I'm a delicate snowflake where like who cares? And then all the people also just defending like, but they were slaves and they were slave owners and that is history. And we can't just, we can't make history more palatable for people to feel, not feel uncomfortable. And I'm like, okay. I got, but I also woke up to an email from the teacher thanking me. Couldn't have been.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:43.361)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:44.769)
Thank you for this. I'm always trying to work on improving how I show up. And then I follow up to say, is this a curriculum issue? Because if it is, then I want to talk to the principal and make sure that we're focusing on correcting the curriculum. Like, we're going to highly run this up the chain to correct the curriculum. And I said, I don't want to overstep you. I'm not going to go to your boss and report you. So let me know if it's a curriculum thing.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:59.189)
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:08.277)
So she looked and she said, you know what? I looked, it's not the curriculum. The curriculum actually says enslaved people. And it was my mistake. And so I'm going to fix that. And she was really lovely about it. She's a younger woman, and I think in her 20s, pretty fresh out of college, probably a few years out. You know, I get it. This is how I understand it's how I was raised. I do think the curriculum doesn't say it.
I'm hoping that in her college, at least, she wasn't taught that, but I'm sure she grew up hearing the same terms. And so, you know, it's probably some of that like rote memory and it came out without her thinking. And now hopefully being called in, she'll make that change. She says she's committed to it. I believe it. She's in a very diverse school where I would think she would be really conscientious of these issues. I also know the school's incredible ethos around these things. And I know like what he knew would be like, we're gonna fix this. I didn't want to report her because it's just a mistake. Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:41.313)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:00.224)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:01.865)
All of that. I shared.
in a separate post than on threads, not on the original post, I went to a new post and I said, this is how a good teacher responds to being called in. Took a screenshot of the email, not of her name, not of, there's no names, no email addresses, just the body of the message where just where she said, thank you so much, I'm gonna work on this, I appreciate it, whatever. It was really kind. And then I shared my email to her, again, no names, no email addresses, where I shared what I had shared with her. As an example, like first of all, because I was also feeling some guilt about my earlier message being
Taina Brown she/hers (06:27.51)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:34.761)
and she was of course lovely and honestly I expected her to be. I was just frustrated in the moment. So I was like, I'm gonna share something to show what happened from this and that she was lovely and she handled it well. And a bit of a learning moment of like, here's what it can look like to reach out to a teacher if there's a thing going on and that...
Taina Brown she/hers (06:35.477)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:53.663)
something good can come of it, right? And like, hey, teachers do wanna learn and do better. So I felt really good about that post too. But then I had all these people who were, I mean, again, all the same people showing up about, I've solved racism, I'm the savior, and all the people wanting to defend language, and then some of the just straight up, like really blatantly racist, gross stuff.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:03.669)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:12.117)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:13.047)
And then, but there were a lot of teachers who showed up. And this is where I thought it was interesting. A lot of teachers showing up because this post, for some reason, the initial post didn't get a ton of traction. Great. This one, it's ridiculous. It's like at 11 or 12,000 likes. And so that means exponentially more views. think it's like one of those that just for whatever reason took off. And so a lot of people have seen it. A lot of educators have found it. And I've had all these people talking to me about how I'm like,
doxing her. They haven't used that language because I haven't. There's no identifiable anything. But just saying like, it's so uncool that I shared this and, you know, what would she think and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, there is this part of me. So I'm, I'm up to the initial message was I was venting. Was that the best place to vent? Maybe not. Could I have been a little less snotty for sure, right? I could have just stated the frustration without it being like, of course she's a white woman. Although
Taina Brown she/hers (07:45.641)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:10.793)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:11.895)
Of course she's a white woman, whatever. But okay, fine. But the second message, I thought it was a lovely example of something really beautiful happening. I didn't share anything identifiable. There's no way to know who that person is. I've never shared my son's school online. I never would. So I'm just like, and I painted her in a good light too. It was like, I'm showing the teacher who's responding to some feedback in the most.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:23.7)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:40.343)
perfect way. what I said is here's the perfect example of what can happen, know, of this is how a teacher should respond. And to have all these people like glomming on and saying it was so disrespectful and so rude and whatever. And I'm just sort of taken aback by it. And while there is this part of me that's like, get it to a degree, sharing somebody's personal correspondence. However,
I don't know, guess I'm just like, there's nothing negative about any of it. And then the other part of me is it does feel a little bit like a whole lot of people rushing to protect the sweet young white teacher.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:17.812)
Mmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:19.799)
in an experience where we're talking about racism with children, because I'm like, I get it. You guys are worried about her. But she's also a grown-ass woman who can take care of herself. She's not identified anyway. But if she were to see it and find out this part, I don't even think she'll ever see it. First, I doubt she's on thread. She's too young. And she's not going to follow me. But if she does, what she saw was me complimenting her on her ability to receive feedback and do the right thing. I don't know.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:28.498)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:45.416)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:48.279)
Anyway, just the whole thing feels really weird and messy. And so I've just been sitting with it. I'm just letting it go. mean, at this point, I'm trying not to engage with any more comments. did. I, you know, what, where does that get me? Um, but yeah. So that's my mess that I'm sitting in right now of like, Oh, what a mess.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:00.818)
Yeah
Taina Brown she/hers (10:07.591)
Yeah, yeah, that is quite messy.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:12.759)
You just messed me. So how, tell me the way, like I know, I can take it. I'm interested to hear in the ways that I fucked this up and or behaved wrong. And then also maybe the ways you think the whole thing is stupid.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:27.602)
Hahahaha
think it's stupid. I don't think it's stupid. think I I probably would have asked the teacher first to share the screenshots even if there's no identifying information and just to be on this lake on the safe side. But I think you how people online are like, they're just they're just looking for for something to like, you know,
Becky Mollenkamp (10:41.953)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:47.809)
you
Taina Brown she/hers (10:58.516)
to be mean or to be upset about or whatever. And so, and I think you owned up to the first one, right? Where it was like, okay, I could have maybe not been so snotty there, but it's already out there, so.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:11.595)
Well, and know that some people are like, well, why is it still up? And I'm like, well, because I'm not somebody who likes to, I'm not gonna post and delete. Like, I don't, I hate that. Like, there's no accountability in just posting it and deleting it. And it is what it is. I said it and it was how I felt in the moment and I was venting. But yeah, I don't know. Okay, so like we can skip the experience of that, but also just on the topic of, because this is History Month.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:17.605)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:21.97)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:34.095)
Yeah, it is Black History Month,
Becky Mollenkamp (11:36.979)
Something else that came up and I would love to hear your perspective on this. I thought it was also interesting. A few people also were talking about how several, in fact several, and it was all white women, of course, saying...
well, why are you sticking your nose into that business? That's not your business. That's not your thing to be talking about. Why are you rushing into like play savior for the black students or why are you not leaving it to the black parents to, if they're upset, then they should talk about it. And I'm like, you guys know that like slavery is US history and as anyone who's from the US, this is my history too.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:11.344)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:14.294)
My history too. And I'm not saying I'm claiming it as in it's my history and it's my terrible path. I'm not a directly a descendant in a way that I'm affected through ancestral pain. It is my history and that is part of my responsibility to heal this country from that legacy. Somebody else was like, so you just admitted your family owned slaves. And I'm like, that's not at all what I admitted. It is also not true. But even if it were, that's not the point. The point is.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:20.945)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:32.684)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:38.034)
you
Taina Brown she/hers (12:42.64)
People are so stupid. I'm sorry. Like, I just...
Becky Mollenkamp (12:44.234)
Aren't they?
Taina Brown she/hers (12:48.305)
The lack of critical thinking sometimes is just so bewildering to me. It's like, did you not pay attention in school? Like what? I just.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:06.983)
But I was amazed because there were in the and I there's there's part of this like Black History Month.
I don't know. Like, I know why we have a Black History Month. I get it. The idea that we have 28 days where we talk about Black history.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:23.313)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:24.265)
And then the rest of the time is like, not. And then suddenly that now means slavery is supposed to just be in the confines. Like it's, I don't know. It's like we start to identify certain things as black history that are not, it is just US history. It is human history and that we all have to own. Because if we start to say that's not my history or it's not my place to have these conversations, one, it leaves the labor to the people for whom.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:38.619)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:49.862)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:49.941)
We should not, there's that legacy continuing, right? And that's not okay. And two, it's a way of trying to separate yourself from something.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:59.57)
Yeah, issues responsibility, right? When it's all of our responsibilities to contend with that legacy of how this country was founded and also how the...
system of slavery literally built the American economy that we still participate in today. so interestingly enough, like we're recording this on a Wednesday, have, I'm facilitating a session tomorrow on Black History Month and it's why Black history is American history. Like it's not, there's no separation, right? Like it's.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:34.007)
Mmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:41.742)
everyone who lived at that time participated in that system in one way or another, right? Because it was so prevalent. So regardless of how you racially identify or how your ancestors racially identified, like we're all connected to that history. So you can't really separate yourself from it and you can't divorce yourself from the responsibility of like having to face it. I mean, you can, but you know, then you would be delulu.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:09.815)
I'm saying, apparently you can. Whole lot of people on threads are, and that's upsetting. I also know lots of people are trolls and whatever, but unfortunately they are not all. And there were an interesting number of college professors and school teachers, all white again, from what I could tell from their photos, several of them, who showed up to say to me, I understand where you're coming from with this. So they were trying to say like, I get it. And...
I don't do this in my class because, and it came back to this idea of that's not honoring the truth of history. At the time that this happened, people were calling people slaves, people were calling themselves masters or owners. And so that is the truth of what was happening. And we can't diminish that with softer language because then that doesn't force us to face these truths was sort of.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:59.757)
It's not softer language though. It's more appropriate language. Like language has evolved. Like our understanding of what happened and how to talk about what happened during that time has evolved and become more appropriate. And so it's, I understand where they're coming from because this is something that happens a lot in.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:03.659)
Thank you.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:28.304)
on college campuses where people who are students who are like learning new language and new concepts will often try to apply modern day like political ideologies, philosophical ideologies onto historical events, right? But there's a difference between trying to apply the concepts to
historical events and using the language to talk about historical events, like using more appropriate modern language to understand what happened, to contextualize what happened. And so I get what they're saying, but I think they're conflating those two things.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:15.905)
Yeah. And it takes, it could take literally less than like three minutes to just pause and say, here is why we use this language now. And we may, you may see reference in certain language or in certain things we read of people using this other language. That was the language they used at the time, but this is why we're using this language now.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:25.114)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:34.244)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:34.711)
It's so simple to do that it just blows my mind because I even said that I'm like, okay Well, then you might say like in the context you can you could contextualize those words and say within the context of this time This might have been the language and still say in in our time. We honor humanity in this way It's not that hard to do in my mind
Taina Brown she/hers (17:47.344)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:53.168)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's not. It's not. And I've had I've had professors like when I was in college, I had professors who would put that on the syllabus, right? When we were going to be covering difficult topics, it would be like. You know, just to know like the language or the way that things were discussed, some of the things you might read might, you know, might be different from how we talk about it now. When we discuss it in class, obviously we can talk about it in a more appropriate way, but.
What's written, what's assigned to be read might be a little, I don't want to use the word triggering, but it might be a little.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:34.529)
inappropriate, right? And so it's like reading historical fiction or historical accounts where people use the N-word, right? Like, you don't want to necessarily censor that, but when you discuss it in a classroom today, you know not to use that word, right?
Becky Mollenkamp (18:55.191)
think that's exactly what came up for me too, because I'm like, you the same people then, white presenting folks online who claim to be teachers talking about these subjects, are you the same people then who, if you're reading something from Mark Twain or whoever that's using that language, where you don't skip that word, where you feel empowered now suddenly to use that language and hide behind this mask of, oh, but it's what's there. This is our history. We can't hide from it. That doesn't give you permission to just.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:08.654)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:12.781)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:18.829)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:23.159)
No.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:24.259)
use slurs and say, well, but that's what's on the page. No, because we know better. And one teacher who I was very thankful, I mean, there were also, by the way, lots of really amazing replies and great teachers who were like, I wish my parents were involved like this, could speak disrespectfully, can share an actual resource to help, all of that. They were a lot of lovely people. And one woman who said, my favorite expression or my favorite mantra as a teacher is no better do better. And she's like, I've.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:44.535)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:53.111)
I've made these mistakes. And then once I know better, do better. And I had some other people saying like, I've made this mistake. And I'm like, OK, that's OK. My point wasn't to shame the teacher. And I don't think I did. It was to say, let's know better. And then we can start to do better. And I just think for the people who are worried about this poor teacher and the situation, it's just like, there are nine-year-old Black students in this class.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:54.479)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:03.449)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:19.083)
who are learning, they are at the most, one of the most sort of important part of their development in their age of understanding who they are, what their history means, where they are in relationship to each other and all of that.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:31.17)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:33.183)
And as a white teacher, especially, just think there is such a profound responsibility to be careful. Because if you strip humanity in that way, how else might it be showing up, right? In ways that you don't even recognize. And so they're calling in to say, can we always remember to center humanity? I think it's just a really valuable thing for us to always be thinking about. And then there are also the trolls who are like, well, she's not a teacher. Then she's a person who teaches. Like, my god, I can't with people.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:43.98)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:55.202)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:03.567)
stupid. Again, people are stupid. I think it's also a way to center the humanity of the students in the class, right? And so like someone who's to me, someone who's like, well, that's the language that was used at the time. So that's what we have to like, that argument prioritizes like the material, the content over the way that the students are going to receive and engage with the content and
At the end of the day, that's just bad teaching, right? Like the role of a teacher is not like, yes, you want to distribute and educate and focus on the content, but you have to consider like if the students aren't engaging with the content, if they're not able to like really absorb the content in a way, like in a healthy way, in a way that's like beneficial for them, then you failed as a teacher. And so if your entire focus is on just making sure the content
the integrity, whatever, of the content remains the same and you're not thinking about how the students in your classroom are going to be, you know, absorbing that, then where are you fucking teaching? Just go do research.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:13.783)
Yeah, yeah, and I mean, you know, again, she received it really well. So that feels really good. And you know, it's so easy because my when I talked to my nine year old about it, he got it right away. was like, this is not a big deal to them. It's but but it is also so easy. If he does if if no one tells them, then they don't know.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:27.607)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:36.48)
just yeah they'll just perpetuate it.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:37.333)
Right, so my son's using that word, he's using the word slaves, thinking of it as if it's enslaved owner and that the dynamic that creates, and there's no separating that from race, obviously, and the messages that that then gives, subtle or not, those things seep in as part of what informs how we show up. that's how these things get replicated without our consent, unless we interject, right? And so.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:55.339)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:02.988)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:04.125)
If I hadn't seen that though, if I hadn't stepped in, if I hadn't said something to him and done a correction, and if I hadn't worked with the teacher to hopefully change things moving forward, that's, it would just be one more way where my kids now, and it does make me think like all the places where I'm missing it, you know, because I don't know. So yeah, it's, it's something. Yeah. Do you have a mess?
Taina Brown she/hers (23:19.817)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:25.939)
It's something all right.
I don't have a mask, but I was gonna ask you, have you been watching the Olympics at all?
Becky Mollenkamp (23:37.643)
some.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:38.978)
What have you been watching?
Becky Mollenkamp (23:41.259)
Well, every time I put on, so the Peacock app is where we have it. All thoughts about, whatever, doesn't matter. Anyway, that's where it's at. So every time I go there, the thing they serve up to me is curling. It's always fucking curling. husband and are like, how much curling can there be? It's always curling. So we have to search for anything else. I'm not, the problem is my husband's a bigger Winter Olympics fan than I am. I much prefer Summer Olympics to Winter. I know some people love Winter.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:45.645)
Mm.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:01.003)
Yeah
Becky Mollenkamp (24:08.959)
I track and field. like I, I just, I don't know what it is, but maybe because I was a runner for a long time, but I dig track and field. I could watch that stuff all day. Olympics, I'm kind of like, okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:17.015)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:19.317)
I mean, it's cozy. love like watching all the people out in the snow and like I'm sitting in my warm, covered up in my warm blanket. But most of it I'm kind like, this is mostly boring. But I have watched Skeleton and Luge a little bit. Watched some of the like snowboarding and skiing with tricks and stuff. Watched a little alpine skiing, the cross country stuff and some curling. caught, I was, I did watch the Malanen, the male figure skater. Yeah, was disastrous.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:45.48)
Ilya? Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:48.811)
final performance that kept him off of the, he was supposed to be like a lock for the gold medal and then watched it fall apart. Felt awful for him for that, because I just can't imagine on that stage. Yeah, that's about it. What about you?
Taina Brown she/hers (24:49.11)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:52.864)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:00.416)
Yeah, we don't really follow the Summer Olympics that much, but we do like the Winter Olympics, because we like the figure skating. So I've always been a really big fan of figure skating. I don't follow it. Like, don't ask me to explain what a triple whatever is.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:05.565)
You're a gay.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:16.287)
Papsil versus Lutz versus whatever. I look at them, I'm like, they all look literally the same. they go into it backwards or forwards, and I guess that's part of it, but it's also about like the blade. I'm like, how people know is amazing. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:19.685)
Yeah, they're just jumping and spinning in the air to me. That's it.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:26.797)
Yeah, yeah, it's very technical. It's very precise. It's very precise. But yeah, I just, I like just the artistry of it. And when it's one, it's just, to me, it's just a beautiful sport. It's a really beautiful sport. But the thing that I love about it the most is whether it's like a single or a pairs team when they like.
nail their jumps or their maneuvers or whatever. You can just see this euphoria on their face. Their reactions are just immediate. yes, yes, yeah. so it's just, I don't know, just watching that sense of joy. But then when they don't, then it's devastating. You can see.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:05.303)
It's like with gymnastics in the summer. It's a thing. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:22.636)
And so I didn't watch, I didn't see when Ilya Malinin kind of, you know, lost it. Mellow, Mellow was watching it. I think I was working or I was writing or something when he was on, when the men's were competing. But Mellow saw it and she was like, it was really bad. But she also said he just kind of like gave up after.
Like for the rest of his performance.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:52.427)
I think he realized he was not getting, after he missed his first, the first one I think was like, okay, I could recover. Cause he was trying to land the, what do call a five? No, a pentuple, wasn't it? The first person to do five.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:02.866)
A quad.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:08.223)
That's a quad. Because he's called the quad god.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:10.185)
What's a four in it?
What's a four then? Four's a quad.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:16.043)
I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I'm...
Becky Mollenkamp (27:18.239)
He is a quad guy, because he can do, I think his thing is he can do quads like nobody's business. He can those like it's a triple for most people, but I think he's the first person, the thought was gonna be that he was gonna be the first person to land a five spin in a competition like that. And he missed it.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:22.228)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:30.503)
Okay, okay.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:34.999)
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's the case. Because I think he did land some of his quads, but he had a bunch of things that just fell apart. It was sad. It was really sad. And I'm sure he did give up, because at some point, I think it must be so hard when the pressure is like, if you win anything other than the gold, you've failed. And his parents are both figure skaters. I just think.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:36.501)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:42.048)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:52.01)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:54.271)
It just had to be, I can't imagine the pressure. Going into it being the clear favorite, anything other than gold is failure. Which reminds me, did you see the Canadian, the journalist that asked the Canadian woman, I don't remember what sport, sorry, skiing of some sort, I think. But he asked her if her two silvers felt like two golds lost. And she was.
She put him in his place. was fantastic. She was just like, I feel like I've won, because she'd already won other golds in previous Olympics. She's won multiple. She's like, I've won multiple medals. I'm here competing on this stage. Like, I'm thrilled with the silver that I have. like, basically, she's like the audacity to ask that kind of question. But that is, think, the thinking, especially in America. And yeah, that level of sport anywhere is like anything other than gold is failure.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:35.945)
At that level of competition, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:42.376)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:42.987)
God, I can't imagine, especially for a lot of these kids. mean, Malan is a little older, but some of them are so young and that was a pressure.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:48.971)
So yeah, yeah, there was a Japanese girl who I think, I think she won gold in the singles, a figure skater. She was 17. Youngest, youngest skater.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:58.967)
Yeah, there's some of the downhill, some of the snowboarders that are, yeah, they have snowboarders that are like 16 and 17 too, and I'm just like.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:05.499)
It's wild. It's so wild to me. But so I wanted to talk about or I wanted to like settle on Ilya for a second because like Mella also said like once he came off the ice that he also just was kind of threw a little bit of a tantrum which I get it. get it. I'm not listen I'm not a I'm not an athlete. I don't get the pressure of that
Becky Mollenkamp (29:30.751)
He He did. He recovered pretty quickly, I will give him credit. So he sat down and he was like, this wouldn't have happened if they had sent me to Beijing or wherever it was. Because I guess four years ago, he didn't make the team and he was younger then, fitter then, guess he's more ready. With all the pressure put on him, I guess I can understand it. I understand also.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:33.395)
level of competition. I get it. I get it.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:41.821)
Yes.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:46.212)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:52.981)
You're being watched and you know that and you should probably keep your cool. But it had to be really hard. And I will say within minutes after that, he was being interviewed and he handled his interviews very well.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:02.588)
Yeah, I just, I don't want to make excuses for him because the women who competed and even some of the pairs who competed who didn't do well, like, happened to manage their response a little bit better and also just didn't give up. Like Amber Glenn competed last night and she didn't fall on the ice, but she's had, I mean, she has a history of just kind of, she's one of the best.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:09.535)
Sure.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:31.018)
but she also has a history of being somewhat inconsistent. And so there have been really big competitions where she has fallen like on her ass on the ice and she doesn't give up, right? Like she's like, no, I'm just gonna finish the performance as strongly as I can. so I think like all I have to say, just like last night Mel and I were just like, the women competing are so much better than the men.
like they're just stronger performers or just yeah with the artistry and also with like the technical things like they fall a lot less like they're a lot more like disciplined it seems instead of just like trying to like show off you know but also like when they do quote unquote fail like they handle it so much better like there's a level of like
Becky Mollenkamp (31:04.479)
That's always been the case in high school.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:29.937)
emotional maturity there. I think, I feel like we just make so many excuses for like, regardless of the pressure, like,
regardless of how important it is for you. And obviously, there's room for people to make mistakes or whatever, but I'm watching that and I'm like, this just feels like male entitlement and privilege to me.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:58.017)
so interesting because I almost have a different, like an opposite sort of perspective in that I think that there needs to be more permission, not permission, but I just wish I would like to see women being able to express their frustration, their anger, their true feelings instead of having to suppress them to be a quote unquote good girl for the camera. And I think that's-
Taina Brown she/hers (32:14.92)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:20.206)
that's not what I'm saying at all. That's not what I'm saying at all. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:21.375)
I know you're not. We're seeing similar thing and I know what you're saying is why can't the men be a little more like emotionally mature like the women and I hear that and agree to agree but also I guess I just when I see it I don't see the women handling themselves better. I see women who aren't allowed to.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:37.193)
Restraint, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:38.271)
Yeah, and that I'd rather see because they know what happens. I know why they can't like I get it because you know, especially in tennis we see this where if a woman expresses any frustration or anything the the way especially if she's a black woman the way she did is ridiculous. And so I do think that it's what's upsetting is the disparity in how people are treated in those moments. And that's where I'm like
Taina Brown she/hers (32:43.132)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:51.996)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:01.478)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:02.879)
You're right, he shouldn't be given a pass when the women aren't. But what I prefer is, I don't think anyone should have to, I mean, listen, you shouldn't be able to go hit somebody or like, you know, throw things or whatever. But I think like we need to give these people a little more permission to be human of like.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:11.154)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:17.212)
No, and the women were, I'm not saying that they didn't have emotional responses like Amber Glen when she fell out of her jump yesterday.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:21.633)
Well, I don't think he threw that thing in the fit. So that's interesting that Melo saw it that way. Cause I didn't see it as, I didn't see his thing as a big fit. It's interesting Melo sort of saw it that way because that's not how I saw it at all. So I don't know.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:32.38)
Well, I mean, it's like...
That comment feels just really like, well, I should have been on that team. Well, you didn't make the team for a reason. Whatever that reason was, obviously, it's political. I'm not saying there was a valid or invalid reason why he didn't make the team. regardless, he didn't make the team back then. So you're blaming your failure now?
Becky Mollenkamp (33:41.28)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:46.571)
Well, sometimes it's political though, that's part of the problem. I think it was.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:01.94)
on you not being able to skate four years ago. Like one, that doesn't make any fucking sense. like, but with the women, like it's not that they didn't have any emotional response. Like Amber Glen, like when she was done, she literally just like broke down in tears. Like any of the other, you know, competitors, like they had their emotional responses. Like even when they were being interviewed, like one of the American pairs, Chuck and Bates, like they were this, there was rumors that this was their last year.
their last time competing in the Olympics that they were going to retire. And so they were really going for gold as a pair. And they ended up, think, with silver and like, they were crying, you know what I mean? Like they, like people had their emotional responses, but they were healthy emotional responses, right? And so, but I think also one of the things that we noticed also with like, God, these fucking journalists, like.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:50.805)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:01.211)
I didn't know about that. my God, like the fucking audacity and like.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:03.287)
Oh my god, you should see that one. It's something. was a white guy asking her the question. I know. A fat white guy sitting there and again, no, nothing about being fat because I'm fat. I get it. But I also wouldn't sit there and then challenge somebody about being. I'd like, I couldn't even get like, I can't even do what you do at the slowest, ridiculous pace. And then I'm going to sit here and ask you if you feel disappointed that you didn't get like, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's so ridiculous.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:25.496)
So you feel disappointed like ask something helpful like it's so ridiculous and like and then They're like these athletes are just like expected to give interviews like right after and you have journalists in their faces Like asking questions like that asking. how does it feel you didn't do as well as you thought you would? How does it how do you think it fucking feels? Yeah, like it's it's just it's so invasive hmm Yeah
Becky Mollenkamp (35:46.615)
Like, shit, what are you trying to get accomplished here? You remember Marshawn Lynch? Do you know Marshawn Lynch from football? He was a CLC. Well, Marshawn Lynch famously, like, would not give, he would give, like, one word answers to things, and he hated the press. And he got a lot of grief for it during the season and stuff, and because they are contractually obligated, at least in the NFL, like, means of sports. I don't know, the Olympics, they may have similar sort of contractual obligations to speak with the media. And so he would show up, but he just would only give, one, he's like, you can make me think more.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:05.647)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:15.291)
He's like, you're getting the bare minimum.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:16.981)
Yeah, but you can't make me answer beyond what I want to do. and I, people hated it and I like respect that. I really respect it. It's like, yeah, why should you, especially when they ask the most inane questions like that. And most of the questions are so stupid. I love it when people give back to the reporters, some like, are just like, did you, what did you hope to accomplish with that question? Like.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:31.793)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:37.488)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:38.135)
You feel good about that question? Like I love when they show up like that. And you again, men get more permission to do that than women, right? And I don't think that's fair, but yeah, it's so...
Taina Brown she/hers (36:40.059)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:44.753)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:49.871)
It's so stupid. It's so stupid. it's like, the camera shots are like fully zoomed in when somebody's crying. It's like, give them some fucking space. Like they just did something that they have been working for their entire lives. let them just.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:55.538)
my god, I know!
Becky Mollenkamp (37:06.453)
It's like a pain porn or something. Like they want to get the shot.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:09.078)
It really is.
Becky Mollenkamp (37:10.327)
them crying or the family crying or whatever, especially like in a loss or something. And it's like, I don't know, at some point I get really uncalled. And now listen, I know there are bigger problems in the world, but it just feels like yet one more way where we just don't respect, again, going back to the first part of this, respecting humanity. It doesn't feel like it's very honoring of humanity. In someone's really sad, hard moment, sad moment, where we're trying to ask them a gotcha question or trying to get all up in their face or showing their kids crying or whatever, like.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:20.922)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:32.058)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (37:39.797)
How is that really being very honoring of a person's humanity? don't know. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:42.71)
It's not. It's not. It's also just like when they ask like ridiculous questions like that. I'm just like that's the best question you can think of.
Becky Mollenkamp (37:52.823)
I-I-It feels provocative in that they're trying to evoke, like, their hope, especially now in this-in the age-like, I think it- back in the printed days of media, right? Before, I know, I love the old lady in the room, but I think the reason media has gone so downhill is because with each new form of media, it's like, it gets-it gets-
Taina Brown she/hers (37:55.553)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:03.384)
No
Taina Brown she/hers (38:15.078)
It has to be more sensational.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:16.565)
Right, right? But I mean, when we didn't have video, there'd be no point in doing a lot of that because you're just dictating what they said. Like, you know, it's a different experience. With TV came this idea of like, how can I get them to get charged and say something? And now, now in the short form media world, it's like, I gotta get them to say something that's just so quick that it could be a 20 second video. So I can't even get long form answers. I just gotta like, just try to get them like spouting off or getting angry or.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:28.632)
Yeah, the sound bites.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:42.937)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:43.861)
you know, crying, and it's just really unfortunate.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:48.185)
It really is, it really is. so.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:50.739)
I feel for them, some of them get media training, but I don't know that they all do. I saw another video of, I think they were.
ice skaters, so you may have seen it, I don't know, but, I don't know who the girl was, but it was showing this like, they asked her some question and she fumbled so badly. And it was really endearing actually, it was really cute. He was just like, but I don't, like, and then whatever she ended up saying made no sense. And it was really funny, but it was just this proof of like, they're putting these young kids that have no media experience beyond these kids now probably doing TikTok videos, but like how to handle a room full of press.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:08.335)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:22.009)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:26.948)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (39:27.415)
yelling your name and asking questions and trying to get you or trying to like provoke a response out of you. That takes, when you are at your most potentially fragile, that takes a professional skill to manage.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:38.453)
That takes a lot of training. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is, it is. How do you think some of these sports came about? we were watching... First of all, there's no curling involved in curling. I don't understand why it's called that.
Becky Mollenkamp (39:47.713)
early?
Becky Mollenkamp (39:54.327)
don't nothing about this. They should call it brooming, sweeping, rocking. I don't, yeah, I don't. Well, I think they're trying to curl the stone maybe? Curve it, curl it? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how that got, the Two Man Luge, did you watch any of that? Were they're stacked on top of each other? my God.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:58.053)
Smoothing like you're literally just like smoothing the ice to like get the thing to go a certain way
Taina Brown she/hers (40:18.18)
The luge itself is just like the most...
Becky Mollenkamp (40:21.217)
Well, I mean, like I get Looj and Skeleton, they're silly. It's like adult sledding, like in a way. I mean, really high speed, but...
Taina Brown she/hers (40:26.596)
It's like, let's put on the tightest outfit we can find that shows all of our bits and slide down a gigantic ice slide at at least 40 miles an hour. And let's make that a sport. Jesus fucking Christ.
Becky Mollenkamp (40:40.641)
they're going up to 80. It's insane. And then someone said, this isn't enough. Now let's two bodies on top of each other. And when you watch it, like, you know, there's some homoerotic happening.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:47.756)
Let's put two people.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:56.804)
Oh, for sure. I mean, you're so close. You're so close.
Becky Mollenkamp (40:59.893)
People compare you to the ridiculously gay duo because yes, are in skin tight clothing with their bits exposed and when you start to look at how those bodies are stacked and line up where the pieces are, it's interesting. I know and I recognize that, I recognize that. But have you seen that sled going down? It's bouncing, it's way down. But you see, whoever said like...
Taina Brown she/hers (41:12.718)
They're professionals, Becky. They're professionals.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:19.524)
It's, yes, there's a lot, there's a lot. I just.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:24.959)
This isn't enough. Let's stack each other. again, like you're saying, where do these things come from? I don't know who in their mind ever said, see the ones that make, like, I love the cross country. They call it the Alpine ski and shoot thing. And I love that because I'm like, this makes sense. Somewhere along the line, people had to hunt for their.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:40.005)
To do this, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:41.271)
This was literally a skill people have and still have where they have to go out and cross country ski and then shoot their food and take it home. OK, that makes sense. I kind of get downhill skiing. It's fun, I guess. Whatever. But yeah, some of them, especially that two man luge, I'm like, why? Who said one person's not enough? We got to stack. We got to stack them.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:47.822)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:56.26)
How did this become a sport? Like, respect to the athletes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All respect to the athletes. Like, I get they train for so long for this. you know, they're... I, absolutely not. Absolutely not. But it just, it...
Becky Mollenkamp (42:04.853)
Yes, I'm sure it's-
I would never do it. I could never do it, I mean. Not that I wouldn't. I could never do it. Yeah. There's not a sport there that... Curling, I will be honest. I do think I could learn curling. Would I ever be the best? Probably not. But I think I could at least, like, that's the one that I'm like, I could... I could do it on ice. They have special...
Taina Brown she/hers (42:23.5)
If it weren't on ice, I could probably learn it. I don't know. can't stand up on ice.
Becky Mollenkamp (42:29.739)
I have special shoes. Haven't you seen the way, then they slide on their shoes? I think it looks fun.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:33.666)
No, I haven't seen those. I haven't watched it yet. It just makes me wonder, who decides what's an Olympic sport? What's an Olympic-worthy sport?
Becky Mollenkamp (42:42.825)
I know, because I keep adding them.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:45.592)
They do, they do keep adding.
Becky Mollenkamp (42:48.215)
I took my medicine. Yeah, keep adding them. Like, well, break dancing got added to the summer Olympics, which was what a disaster that was. I agree. I agree. I table tennis, I look at it I think every basement has a table tennis. Like, I don't know. But I'm sure they're all elite. don't know. In what way do I think these people are elite or whatever it is they do? You do question.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:49.475)
No.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:54.324)
I remember, I remember. But dancing is athletic, right? So that...
Taina Brown she/hers (43:11.02)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:14.488)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (43:16.279)
What is a sport and what is a hobby? Like my husband would argue bowling is a sport and I argue that bowling is a hobby. I think you can be elite level at that hobby. I think a sport requires athleticism. All the bowling people are gonna come at me and I know my husband is a bowler. My husband's a very good bowler. His bowling average is like a 220. Like he's very good.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:18.795)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:31.298)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
You
Taina Brown she/hers (43:42.815)
Is he in a league?
Becky Mollenkamp (43:44.575)
I would not describe him as athletic. Is he elite? No, he's probably not elite, but I mean, he's good. He's been on teams and in bowling leagues and you know, he's good. he's been on leagues. He's not right now, but he used to be. But he is, you know, you can do that sport and not be athletic. The sport, I call it more of a hobby or an activity.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:47.039)
Is he in a lead?
Taina Brown she/hers (43:53.726)
No, league. Yeah, a league, not a league. A Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:03.842)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do want to just very briefly mention the 41-year-old bobsled Alana from Doug was, yeah, the Canadian. Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (44:16.247)
What about 42 year old ice skater? Ice dancer, did you see that? From Canada?
mean, bobsled too, and I know, but like, oh, that's amazing. Is she the one that has deaf children? Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:26.05)
But she won her gold. She won her gold. Yeah, she's the most decorated. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so she's the most decorated medalist, bobsled woman medalist or whatever, and she got her gold yesterday. So that was really nice to see. But yeah, the 42-year-old woman from Canada who's on the Pairs team. Pairs, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (44:47.287)
That's awesome. Canada. Was I skinning her pears? I don't remember pears. Yeah, I was impressed. showed a little of her routine and stuff. And when they were talking about she was older, I was like, oh, I was thinking she was maybe 30. And then she's 42. was like, smokes. And then they had a downhill skier guy that they were interviewing. He was like 44. And he said, not his last Olympics. I'm like, these now that.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:01.987)
42. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (45:12.553)
is the stuff that impresses the hell out of me. Because I'm now of the age where I watch the Olympics and I'm thinking about my kid now instead of like, used to be you'd watch the Olympics and like imagine, could I ever do that? Now I'm very much like beyond any illusion of that. And I think about, I look at the parents with their kids and I think about like, wow, what that would be like for those parents. But I hear about a 44 year old guy who's gonna go again at 48 and I'm like, wow, that's impressive. That's way more impressive than an 18 year old.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:13.847)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:26.966)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:34.722)
Yeah, yeah, some sports, yeah, some of the sports don't like, you can still be older and athletic enough to, not that older people can't be athletic, but.
Becky Mollenkamp (45:51.925)
No, absolutely, but to compete with 18-year-olds. There's one thing is when you're competing in an age group, and still, that's amazing. Not to take anything away from it, but to be in your 40s competing against these 17, 18-year-old kids that, as somebody who's well past my 40s at this point, knows your energy levels are not what they were when you, I don't care how fit you are, your body, things just change. And to compete with somebody who's at peak,
Taina Brown she/hers (45:53.815)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:58.913)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:14.086)
god, they're not.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:21.846)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (46:21.927)
hormonal stuff like that's gotta be hard. So can we finish this by quickly reminding anyone who's listening if you are a coach this week on the 25th, if you're listening to this live, if you're listening to this replay, but if you're to this live, just wanted to throw out a quick nod that we have a workshop coming up, a live workshop coming up on the 25th at noon Eastern, I think it is.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:34.199)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:43.481)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (46:43.991)
about building your liberatory coaching business. We're gonna help you write your manifesto. We're gonna talk about three key essentials of a liberatory coaching business. It's a live free workshop. If you can't be there live, you can still sign up and get the replay. So if you're listening to this this week, just wanted to throw that out, messyliberation.com. It's right there at the top. You can sign up. So, okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:02.827)
Yeah, good conversation. We'll see you next week.
Becky Mollenkamp (47:06.793)
See you next week.