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This is the Executive Connect Podcast - a show for the new generation of leaders. Join us as we discover unconventional leadership strategies not traditionally associated with executive roles. Our guests include upper-level C-Suite executives charting new ways to grow their organizations, successful entrepreneurs changing the way the world does business, and experts and thought leaders from fields outside of Corporate America that can bring new insights into leadership, prosperity, and personal growth - all while connecting on a human level. No one has all the answers - but by building a community of open-minded and engaged leaders we hope to give you the tools you need to help you find your own path to success.
Melissa Aarskaug (00:01.063)
Welcome to the executive connect podcast. Today we're going to talk about artificial intelligence and HR with Dave. Dave is a top AI recruitment expert and personal development coach who transforms the way companies hire and nurture talent. Don't we all need that welcome Dave.
Dave Fox (00:24.474)
Hey, how's it going? Glad to be here.
Melissa Aarskaug (00:26.983)
Excited to talk about HR and AI. Love it. One and two, I always like to start with, tell me a little bit about how you got into HR and now AI. Give us a little bit of your story.
Dave Fox (00:39.738)
So it's interesting. So I'm in the staffing and recruiting space. So I've been in the space since 2012. I actually, it's very interesting story. It's a lot about sales, right? So I had done sales all through college and I ended up after I graduated college going to New York and I worked at a nonprofit organization. And I was just like, I am not a nonprofit person. Love the mission, will help fund it, but I'm a business person.
So I wanted to get back into sales and I found an ad on Craigslist. So I always make the joke when I went into the interview, they didn't kill me, which was great. it wasn't like some closet somewhere, but it was a company that was coming over to the United States from Europe. And I was one of the first people on the team. So that's how I got into the staffing recruiting HR world.
Melissa Aarskaug (01:31.367)
That's amazing. Isn't that life? Right? I everybody has a story on how we ended up place places or who we marry or how we ended up in the States. I love it. I always like to hear people's story. And so getting right into it. Let's talk about how AI is transforming HR and really basic tasks that used to be so difficult to complete. Tell us a little bit from your perspective how how it's working now.
Dave Fox (01:33.754)
Yes.
Dave Fox (02:00.154)
So I think it's really, really interesting. AI in hiring is going to continue to change everything. Like we're seeing it, we're seeing it on both sides of the spectrum. Candidates now, like your resume can be done very, very quickly. And it used to be something that people would take a long time to do, but with Chad GPT, you can do so many things very, very quick. And the other area where I'm seeing a lot of it is
Currently on the recruiting side, the sourcing of talent. It's just, it's getting really good for people to be able to source talent quickly. We're seeing it both in internal companies. We're seeing it across the entire staffing and recruiting sector. So it's pretty exciting to see for sure.
Melissa Aarskaug (02:48.615)
I love it. Now, are these companies using any specific tools or they're just making their own GPT and going with it?
Dave Fox (02:56.698)
Well, it's interesting that you say that about making your own GPT because that's actually something that I just completed today from my company. I think every company should have their own GPT because if you have one place that knows everything about your company that you are constantly updating and all that, it's amazing because you just talk to it and they can tell you anything. I was, I was actually playing around with the one that I built today and I was using it to
Like I just finished it today. So it's so funny that you said that because literally I finished it today, but I was testing it out. I was like role play a sales call with me based on our like sales procedure that we use and it knows exactly what it's doing. It knows how we objection handle and all these different things. So it was really cool to see it do that. And with the GPT, the newest one, the four, you can actually talk to it. So it was really cool.
Melissa Aarskaug (03:50.279)
Yeah, I keep saying I'm gonna make a GPT. It's on the list. So you're motivating me. I'm putting it back on my list. It keeps moving down the priority list. But now...
Dave Fox (04:02.874)
Do you want to know how simple to do it? Like there's a way that you could do it that's very fast because you need all the knowledge on your company, right? And that's the piece that feels overwhelming. It's like.
Melissa Aarskaug (04:08.167)
Okay?
Dave Fox (04:13.594)
I have to get all of this knowledge into one place to do this. So this is what I did. I literally went into chat GPT and this was my prompt. I said, you are an expert in putting together knowledge bases for GPTs. Your job is to interview me and find out everything that you need to know about my company and then put together the knowledge base that I can then download and create a GPT from. And that's how I did it. And it was really, really easy because I was just simply in an interview. It was almost like doing this. It's asking me questions. It's talking to me.
and I put on the voice mode so I'm just literally having this conversation and then when we're done I have my knowledge base for my GPT.
Melissa Aarskaug (04:51.143)
That's amazing. Our listeners are gonna love that. I wanted to, you said something at the beginning that made me think of something, you know, AI is great, right? I love AI, I'm a big fan of AI. But I'm also hearing from people that are currently looking that they feel like some of the AI tools that are scanning resumes are scanning them out, where otherwise they would have been a top candidate for some of these roles. Are you seeing that on your end as well?
Dave Fox (05:22.586)
I think it depends, but there's always been these kind of like black boxes in company submissions that are searching for things in resumes. So I wouldn't say this is necessarily new, but you need to know that when you're submitting your job, your resume to a position, you can't submit the same resume to every single job because that job is looking that your resume's customized to that. Now,
Two years ago, that's a pain. Like I'm going to have to go. You're telling me that I have to change it every single thing. But now if you have a job that you're applying for, you're a candidate. What I would be doing is I would take your resume, put that into chat, GPT, take the job description, put that into GPT. And I would say, make me a new resume based on this job description using the resume that you already have as a template. And boom, you have your new resume. So that, that should be easy to do right now, but you should not be putting the same resume for every job.
Melissa Aarskaug (06:22.567)
Yeah, I agree. I think that's it. Because the jobs need to be, the resume needs to be tailored to the keywords in the job. So the employer knows what you're looking for. So I love that you mentioned that. I want to switch gears on you a little bit and talk a little bit about, so the person gets the job. I understand now that you're using advanced analytics to understand employees' performance and how they are.
actually engaged at work.
Dave Fox (06:53.562)
my goodness, yeah, you can do that. There is. So it's interesting. I run a completely remote company, but we also, we have a morning meeting that's every single morning. And with zoom, there is a plugin called read AI. And this is a fantastic thing to use in general, because I'm a person that I want to constantly be getting better. You have to be that way as an entrepreneur, because if you're not growing, you're dying. So.
Read AI, any meeting that I would get into, I invite my read AI and obviously it's, it's can be in our morning meeting. It's not there all the time, but if I want it to be, it can be.
And it will tell you the level of engagement because it's able to like use computer vision to say, are we engaged right now in this conversation? Which I think we would probably give us a high score, but sometimes, you know, you're, you're in remote meetings and people can't see that you have another screen up and you're actually like checking your stock portfolio, which I so funny. I was once sharing my screen at work in a meeting and I did share my stock portfolio and I made a trade, not realize like I was sharing my screen.
And then I just made light of it later. But we've all been there, right? So it can tell how engaged your people are, which is important. And it can also grade you on what type of language were you using? Were you using inclusive language or all these different things? Pretty cool.
Melissa Aarskaug (08:14.439)
That's interesting. I would say I'm like you, Dave. I would be multitasking, sharing the screen, taking a call, doing a trade. And so it's a good... Now, once a company has that data, so Melissa wasn't engaged, how are companies using that data to make decisions after they have it? Okay, we've been on 15 calls, Melissa wasn't engaged.
What are employees doing with the data? Do you have any insights you could share?
Dave Fox (08:48.378)
know like how many companies are actually like utilizing this like this. I think like it's really good for remote like I said but I don't know how they're using it. What I would say is if I'm using that and I saw somebody was consistently not engaged everybody's gonna be disengaged at some point because we live in a world full of distractions that are constantly constantly there right. Everything's a distraction.
So I can't fault somebody for being disengaged from time to time. If it's a constant thing, then it just it tells you that, you know, maybe they're not engaged in what they're doing. And you as a leadership, this is not an indicator that, there's a problem with that is a problem with you as leadership, keeping your people engaged. Right. And as leaders, we need to take that responsibility.
Melissa Aarskaug (09:35.655)
Yeah, absolutely. I think someone's having those tough discussions and using data to make decisions. And wanted to ask you how Focus GTS is helping companies fill gaps with top talent. Because talent and cost of talent right now is so high, it's soaring, people are having a hard time getting what they're looking for, keeping talent, paying them the salary. So how is, talk to me a little bit about that.
Dave Fox (10:02.106)
So we work specifically in two areas of technology. When I started FocusGTS, I was like, I want to be finding talent.
where there is a differential between supply and demand. Lot of demand, short supply. And when we become experts in those areas, there is a value to that because when you're in high demand, you don't just talk to anybody. You wanna talk to somebody that understands your value, that understands the economics of that talent market that you're in. So that is the way that we've set ourselves up. And what this means is it's put us in a position that when someone comes to us for a role in a
or there's a specific implementation of a certain MarTech product and they need somebody to be involved in that from the architecture side or the development side, whatever it is.
We have this vast network and can provide talent within 24 to 48 hours. And nobody else can provide talent that fast because most people look at things differently and they're like, I don't want to be in a tightly defined market. I want this blue ocean where I can go after all the fish, but that doesn't really work because as we all know, when you're the jack of all trades, you're the master of none. So that's how we work at Focus.
Melissa Aarskaug (11:19.751)
I love it. I want to talk a little bit about HR and development plans or ongoing learning. So a lot of times I hear, just from people that manage people that their people don't feel like they're growing or they're learning or they're staying in a role. and the world is shifting. so I want to talk a little bit about continuous learning and upskilling and, how
companies can use some of the tools on the market to train their people, but at the same time retain their people. So sometimes I know if we train our people too much and they get too many certifications, they end up leaving and going to another company. But how do you balance and juggle that while still making sure you're, you know, developing people?
Dave Fox (12:09.786)
I think it's a risk that you're always gonna take when you're investing and giving people things. The other thing is, if you're trying to really develop people personally, I think, and it's interesting, because at FocusGTS, our final value is the pursuit of knowledge. And what we mean by that is that we are growing and developing personally and professionally. So.
When you give something people completely for free, I think oftentimes they don't value it. But you also want to give them a taste to experience things that they don't know are out there, right? So what we do is
We bring in personal development people and stuff to help develop and train our people and help them feel like they're growing, both personally and professionally. But then we also tell them, like, we want them to invest in it. So if they are doing, like, let's say someone wants to go to a personal development conference in some way, I know that if they develop personally, they're going to get better at their job. So we'll let them do that without it coming out of their vacation time.
which is a way that we're able to be like, hey, we're going to invest in you, but we want you to have some skin in the game too. And we bring in people to give you a taste of what this is. But at the end of the day, you don't value what you don't pay for. So if you're willing to invest in that and realize that the best investment you can make is in you, I'm not going to make you use your vacation time for that.
Melissa Aarskaug (13:42.439)
I love that. That is such a wise, wise nugget is investing in yourself is the best investment is so, so true. Whatever that is and whatever your goals are, you're right. Dare.
Dave Fox (13:55.802)
And this is company I want you to know too, like I am a person in the last six years, I've, my, my wife and I have spent over half a million dollars on personal development. So I'm not a person that talks the talk. Like I've gone all in on that. And I know that you people are capped at their level of personal development.
Melissa Aarskaug (14:19.975)
I love that. I'm a big believer in personal development. I'm constantly, I would say that I'm like Curious George, the little monkey and always trying to learn new things and figure out things and be better. And so I'm wondering if I dare hit this subject. I know this is a hot, hot, hot topic right now. The hybrid verse in office discussion. I know there's a lot going on right now in the world on
employees not wanting to make big commutes from, you know, Manhattan area DC, here in Texas, there's a lot of traffic, people are moving to these cities there, you know, 15 mile drive could be an hour to two hours. And so people really aren't wanting to drive to an office for an hour to two one way and hour back the other. So can you share a little bit about just this hybrid in office?
discussion that's going on right now.
Dave Fox (15:21.338)
So since I started my company, I've done it all, right? Before COVID, we were all in the office. And since we're in Florida, we were back in the office in March of 2020. So we were back in the office fast. I think it was towards the end of March of 2020, we were back in the office. So, but we came back with a hybrid model and the hybrid model ended up being three days in the office and two days remote.
I think that what I've realized is that the future really is going to be more remote models because work can get done. But here's the issue and this is why people like, like I just asked, and I might keep coming back to this, but this is why people developing personally is so, so important because you can only develop personally if you're aware of what you need to change.
And a lot of times there's some people that just don't work well at home because they get so easily distracted. There's a lot of distractions at home. You know, like you walk by the kitchen, you're like, this is out of place. And then you want to like fix this or that. And it's easy to procrastinate and you know, your puppy is cute. There's so many different things that can distract you at home. But
If that is you, you need to fix that because you don't want to be a person that can only perform in the office. When you are not in the office, eyes are on you more. You need to show the results. So you can't just like, you know, sit at home and do nothing and think that you're going to get paid for it. That's going to be one completely unfulfilling.
because deep down inside people know that they're basically stealing, right? When they're doing that. So you can't do that. And if you realize that you're a person that's easily distracted, you need to figure out a way to fix it. And oftentimes I think it comes to the homework environment. Like if your phone is constantly distracting you, like put it a little ways out of reach and be like, look, I'm going to focus for X amount of time. Because when we live in a world that's full of distractions, focus becomes a superpower.
Dave Fox (17:33.402)
Most people are distracted. If you can even focus, you know, better than half the people, you're already in the upper echelon because anything that you focus on is what you're going to need to put all your energy in to complete something.
Melissa Aarskaug (17:49.095)
Yeah, well said. I would agree. I think the world is kind of moving towards the remote model and people are saying, okay, if you're going to pay me less, I want to work from home. If you're going to pay me more, I'll come to the office. So I see a lot of this kind of in negotiations right now. And you touched on another really good point, focus, you know, with so many things in the world, just moving, moving, moving. I want to talk a little bit about,
Dave Fox (18:13.913)
sort of tense.
Melissa Aarskaug (18:18.087)
Gen Z, Gen Alpha, how they're working as opposed to baby boomers. And can you share some insights on your experience with these different kind of generations and how they're working in remote and hybrid environments?
Dave Fox (18:33.658)
I found that Gen Z tends to actually do pretty good in remote, but it's also because it's hard to say it's because a lot of people say that generation is entitled and they might feel like they're entitled to word remote, but like if they're, if they're going to bring the results, I don't really care. Like you can work, you can work from home. I don't know. It's, it's been interesting cause I see the frustrations.
that people have with Gen Z. I'm a millennial, but people say I'm like a Gen X. But I think, like I totally see the frustrations because you're dealing with, I think the biggest challenge that people have, if I was to try to like put some meat on what the actual issue is that people have with like the newer generations, I think they are programmed.
that things should be instant. And I don't think that's their fault because they've grown up in a day and age where they've had cell phones and you know, if you want to get in touch with someone that was incident when I grew up, I had to like dial a phone to get in touch with someone when I was out, you couldn't get in touch with me.
It was very, very different than it is now. You know, like microwaves, Amazon bringing packages the same day. Everything's instant. So if everything is instant in your life that you've encountered up to the point that you now have a job and a job is supposed to produce success, why would you not think that success should be instant too? And that creates the issue. I also think that
A lot of times people have this belief that
Dave Fox (20:17.562)
they are going to love what they do and they should love what they do. And then they get into their job and they encounter some resistance and start being uncomfortable. And you should be uncomfortable because that means that you're growing, but they encounter some resistance and are uncomfortable and they're like, maybe this isn't for me. And then they go do something else and they end up repeating that pattern so many times. So these are some of the challenges that I see. And I don't necessarily think it's their fault, but I think when they're aware of why those patterns are happening,
then they're like, okay, I get it now. okay, I'm feeling like this should be instant. It shouldn't be. It's a process, you know, and that's just not explained to people nowadays.
Melissa Aarskaug (20:57.287)
Yeah, I agree. I think we're a world of instant everything, right? I see a lot of new drugs on the market to take off all the weight right away and we can order a pen to our front door in minutes and everything's delivered. And so I think, you know, we're all getting used to this. Like we need it now today without a lot of the work as well. So I definitely agree. I think there's a lot of that right now.
Dave Fox (21:24.89)
And I think AI might further complicate that because that takes the speed at which we're moving and makes it even faster.
Melissa Aarskaug (21:31.719)
100%, I really, I definitely agree. I think, you know, in our home, if I need a good cookie recipe without a certain ingredient, at ChachiPT, we use it all the time. Instead of looking up recipes and scrolling through which ones are better than the other, it makes it so easy to get access to the things we need. So I absolutely agree. I wanna talk a little bit about leadership and, you know,
kind of what you were saying about self -development. I know emotional intelligence is a big buzzword right now in teaching people about emotional intelligence, right? So I wanna talk a little bit about emotional intelligence and AI and how kind of those two intersect and what to look for, maybe layering on the hybrid environment on top of that as well, because it's harder, right?
Dave Fox (22:28.218)
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Dave Fox (22:34.426)
What specifically do you want to know in this vein?
Melissa Aarskaug (22:37.959)
You know, just like in the world of, you know, being emotional intelligent, being aware, right? Understanding like when we're behind a computer all day, we don't see video where people don't have their video on. It's harder to really connect with them and understand, you know, maybe if they're having a bad day or if they're, you know, where they are, right? And if we're in front of them, you know, we can use all of our senses when we're behind a computer, it's hard to...
Dave Fox (22:57.21)
Yeah.
Melissa Aarskaug (23:06.247)
you know, really understand that behind the camera, they have kids running around and things are on fire. And so, you know, how do we layer in kind of emotional intelligence, you know, that let's work together, collaborate as an employee with artificial intelligence? Is there anything people can use with AI to help them, you know, maybe grow their emotional intelligence?
Dave Fox (23:30.01)
Well, I think there are a lot of things, right? Because we're constantly leaving clues about our personality and who we are.
Dave Fox (23:42.554)
Yeah. And I think, I think what's even better is as you begin to have more data on this, it's going to get more powerful, but like, I'll give you an example of AI helping navigate some of those waters. If you are going into a meeting with someone, you could, you could probably take their resume or their LinkedIn profile and feed that into AI chat, GPT.
and be like, give me some, based on this, give me some information about this person's personality. Because there's an AI tool that actually, are you familiar with the disc profile? Yeah, so there's an AI tool that can give you someone's disc profile based on their LinkedIn. Yeah, so this is actually one of the areas where, you know, because in the AI camp, there's the, there's the like,
Melissa Aarskaug (24:19.879)
yeah, absolutely.
Dave Fox (24:35.418)
this is going to be create like in a heaven on earth type scenario and then you have the other camp that's like, this is going to destroy humanity. That's part of it. Because if you think about...
When humans interact with each other, a really good, emotionally intelligent person is doing the same thing, right? They're using data based on like body language and stuff to tell what's going on or verbal communication and all those cues along with what the person is saying.
But imagine a human can only analyze how many data points, you know, a fixed amount, whereas AI can manage almost, you know, unlimited as long as there's the compute power to do that. So I think that's one of the areas where the camp that's afraid of AI realizes like, man, if you have an AI that can like know your disk profile and all the other, like imagine like all the different things that it can potentially use as data points to be able to know exactly what's going on with you.
you, that thing could probably manipulate you pretty good, right? So that's where I think that camp is concerned.
Melissa Aarskaug (25:50.119)
Yeah, and I think, you know, the disc profile, your strengths finder, all these tools are clues, right? And I think, you know, sometimes people can be different given where they are in their life and where they're trying to change. And so I...
I don't think it's just end all be all, this is who this person is today based on their LinkedIn profile. But I do think, like you said, using AI to give you clues about who you're dealing with can help you in a lot of ways understand them from maybe you're trying to date them or maybe you're trying to get a job from them and they're a hiring manager. So it gives you clues and then you have to go investigate the data if the data is correct.
Dave Fox (26:22.906)
for sure.
Dave Fox (26:37.338)
You mentioned dating, I'm not sure if you heard, but like the owner of one of the swipe apps, I don't know, I've never used them, but said that they think that the future of dating will be like your AI meeting this potential matches AI and seeing, hey, are you compatible? And like, that's a crazy different world.
Melissa Aarskaug (26:55.591)
Yep.
Yeah, so true. Or, yeah, I've talked on the podcast previously about this, just using AI when you're on a date and, you know, the girl across from you is, you know, using the tool. She's not really like into you vibing, like giving you strategies on how to make her more interested. And so I have heard some of this. Yeah, it's amazing.
Dave Fox (27:19.834)
and you're going to do all that stuff. Yeah.
Melissa Aarskaug (27:25.415)
I want to touch on, I wanted to save time for one of the things that I love talking about is culture. I think right now a lot of companies going back to the hybrid and remote work is, you know, it's sometimes easier to create culture when you're all around each other. You can have, you know, lunch and learns and get together in the office and do different things. Hybrid creates a little bit more of a difficulty with creating a
Dave Fox (27:32.058)
Yes.
Melissa Aarskaug (27:54.535)
an inclusive culture, I want to kind of get your perspective on, you know, how can AI help better culture and help companies keep and retain, you know, employees and keep happy employees.
Dave Fox (28:12.218)
Yeah, I think what's really important, especially with the remote teams, is you need to have some sort of in -person connection. And it's funny that you mention that right now because we're actually doing our first retreat for our company this weekend, FocusGTS, first annual retreat, which is really exciting, where we've brought everybody together from wherever they are.
But I think the thing that a lot of people get stuck on is like ideas around how to keep that culture with that. That's another place where AI is really good, like generating ideas. If you give it context and let it know what you're really trying to do, like this is the type of culture we have, but this is some of the barriers that we're dealing with because we are hybrid or we are remote.
is it can generate a lot of ideas. And if they're not good, you can always get more. Like, like, like you could probably ask, ask you for a thousand ideas and you would get a thousand ideas. So like the possibilities now are really endless. If you're looking for ideas and the ideation, ideation, ideation process around this, I would definitely be using AI in that way.
because culture is the bedrock of the country.
Melissa Aarskaug (29:45.031)
I love it. I think it's huge, right? To keep and retain talent. I see just people aren't staying at companies as long as 20 years, their whole career. I know my uncle worked at HP his entire career from end of high school through college, his whole career. He stayed the whole time. And I don't see that happening as much. People are typically staying a year to three years and jumping. So I know...
You know, from those that are staying, a lot of time it's culture and mission and vision and feeling inclusive and included and opportunities for advancement. And so I do think I'm excited for your first retreat. You're gonna have to tell me how it goes. Congratulations. Because it's important, right, to connect face to face with people and meet and get to know each other outside of just the regular day to day job.
Dave Fox (30:40.89)
Yeah, definitely.
Melissa Aarskaug (30:43.719)
I want to just kind of enclosing any final thoughts or things that we didn't cover on today, Dave, that you want to share with our listeners.
Dave Fox (30:52.57)
Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest takeaway that people need to know right now is the world's going to look very different than it does today, very fast. Things are moving at an exorbitant speed. I was talking to someone today and I was like, man, like we're planning this, but like, and this is even an aggressive timeframe, but like next week things can completely change. And that is just, that's just how fast technology is moving right now.
AI is going to massively impact the world. And if you are not utilizing it or learning about it right now, you're getting behind. The good thing is we're early enough in this cycle that
Like right now, if you were to compare it to the dot com thing, this is like getting in early when the internet was getting started. But the problem is like early is going to be a lot shorter of a time period because this is moving so fast. So like now is the time. Don't wait on this because it's going to, it's going to change everything.
Melissa Aarskaug (31:55.751)
Yeah, absolutely well said. Dave, thank you so much for being here. You shared so many good nuggets of wisdom with our listeners. I know they'll get great value out of it. Definitely check out their business, their company, Connect with Dave. That's the Executive Connect podcast.