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On this episode of The Shrink Down, we talk about the overwhelming pace of current events and the emotional fatigue so many of us are feeling. We explore practical coping strategies—from self-care routines to fostering open conversations, especially with children about tough topics. We also highlight the importance of finding balance between staying informed and protecting your mental health, and we discuss how to nurture resilience in both adults and children during challenging times.
Creators and Guests
Host
What is The Shrink Down?
Four lifelong friends, all clinical psychologists, unpack the latest in current events, pop culture and celebrity news through the lens of psychology.
Vanessa (00:00.922)
Welcome back to The Shrinkdown. As we're recording this, there's so much that has gone on in this country recently and still going on. By the time you hear this in about a week or two, some of the headlines might be shifting, things might be changing, but the underlying feeling that a lot of people are experiencing, stress, fatigue, will still be there in a couple of weeks. And so for some of you, it also might feel like too much.
maybe even kind of overwhelming or you're just tired of talking about it. And that's completely valid. So today we want to be able to talk about kind of both of those things. So holding those hard conversations and also taking care of yourself during this time. But first, let's start on a lighter note with our four minute fades. Who wants to go first? OK.
Wilhelmina (00:49.928)
I'll start. So I actually am going to do something a little older, but I rewatched it. So I'm going to talk about Normal People. is. Yeah, it's a book written by Sally Rooney, and I love the book. The book is one of my probably like top 25. It's it's very good. And then several years ago, a Hulu TV show came out.
Lauren (01:03.266)
I know what you're
Wilhelmina (01:19.756)
based on the book, also called Normal People. And it's 12 episodes, I believe, and they're short, they're like 30 minute episodes. And then that's the whole thing. So it's just like a limited series. It is with Paul Meskell and Daisy Edgar Jones. So a lot of people know who Paul Meskell is now because he's done Gladiator and a few other several other big movies.
Vanessa (01:46.738)
Mm.
Wilhelmina (01:48.18)
But this was really his first thing. When you look at his IMDB list, this was the first thing. So when I watched this, I remember being like, who is this man? He is amazingly talented. He just blew me away. And then I actually sought him out. So he's been in a couple other independent films, smaller films, and I watched those. And then, of course, I was like, he blew up with Gladiator and all the rest.
The story is about basically two, they start as two teens in Ireland. She's kind of the nerdy girl. He's an athlete, sort of popular, and they connect. And then it's sort of their friendship and love story through high school, college, and beyond with a little bit like one day where it kind of keeps dropping you in at different points where they're, you know,
Lauren (02:45.646)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (02:47.124)
together or not together. And it covers like childhood, growing up from adolescence to adulthood. It covers kind of like socioeconomic stuff because she's really wealthy. He's not in sort of the discrepancies of their own experiences. And their chemistry together though is really what you watch the show for. They have this insane chemistry together.
It is a beautiful story of friendship and love. it's, I highly recommend it. I, as I said, I watched it right away, loved it. And then just in the last few months, I've actually had some friends read the book and watch it. And so it inspired me to go back and rewatch it, which I did this time with Owen and he also loved it. So yeah, it's on Hulu and
Vanessa (03:45.436)
can ask.
Wilhelmina (03:45.824)
As said, it's a pretty quick watch because it is just like 30 minute episodes. They are, I would say heavier. It's not like a light show. It's not super heavy, but it's not like a, it's not like a rom-com. It's definitely like a more realistic story of, which is why it's awesome. Cause they actually like look like real people.
Lauren (03:59.736)
Heh.
Vanessa (04:07.92)
Is it one book and the show is based off one book?
Wilhelmina (04:10.57)
Yep. Yep.
Teri (04:10.917)
Would you recommend reading the book first?
Lauren (04:14.222)
Good question.
Wilhelmina (04:14.79)
If that is, so if that's of interest to you, if you are the person who does that, then a hundred percent, because the book is that good and it.
Vanessa (04:14.821)
That's always a good question.
Lauren (04:20.854)
I do like doing that. Yeah.
Teri (04:20.973)
Okay. Cause the one I did the one at your recommendation, I did that with the one one day. Is that what it's called? Yes. And I very much liked that. Reading the book first and then the show. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (04:27.53)
Yes, yes, yes.
Lauren (04:28.119)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (04:31.776)
Yes, so then yes, 100 % read it. And it is very true to the novel. And it is similar to like One Day, where it is one that does the book justice. The ending is similar, but they do, they have like a little bit of a, it's the same ending, but they kind of take a little different twist. So it's even interesting from that perspective. So it's not like you're just watching the same exact iteration. So yeah.
Lauren (04:31.842)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (05:01.684)
Very good. Terry, what about you?
Teri (05:04.767)
Mine is, or are, is are, honey straws? Do you guys ever buy these? Honey straws? Okay.
Vanessa (05:10.642)
yeah, I've liked those. Fests, farm fest, that's where I've seen them.
Wilhelmina (05:10.726)
Lauren (05:11.406)
I see them at like, yeah. Yeah.
Teri (05:17.615)
So many years ago, I was testing a kid, I forgot how old they were, and sometimes they'll bring snacks, you know, while you're testing and we'll take a break. And he busted out like three of these and was sucking them down. And I was like, that's super interesting. Like, what is that? He's like, they're honey straws. Like this is what my mom sends for my snacks at school and et cetera. Yes, exactly. So then fast forward to about a year ago, and I forgot somewhere I saw something where they're like,
Lauren (05:25.624)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (05:37.493)
Zing!
Vanessa (05:38.386)
Hehehehe
Teri (05:47.397)
Yes, for kids when you're playing sports or even for yourself, honey straws are like ideal to just you can suck them down, you pop them with your teeth and then you suck them down. They say I get them at Whole Foods in a pack. So I have started doing one or two before like a run or a workout. then. Yes, but. Yes.
Wilhelmina (06:02.368)
Thank
Lauren (06:05.422)
was gonna say it's like the runners will, you seem like the runner running store, like the little liquid peanut butter or whatever. interesting.
Vanessa (06:08.258)
so it gives you energy.
Teri (06:13.495)
Yeah, so it's very similar to that. My kids love them. So I've been including them along with other things for school snacks. And I helped. was an assistant coach for the little school track team in the spring and I brought a pack of these. And so the kids in between races, which is like a lot of sprinting and relays, they loved them. I mean, I was just whipping through and they would suck them down. Danny, my son, even had two back to back basketball games on Saturday. And in between, I was like, do you want one? He's like, sure.
Lauren (06:18.348)
funny. Yeah, yeah.
Teri (06:42.479)
Who knows what it really does, but I think it gives like a little boost. One of the moms was a gymnast. I think she was a gymnast in college as well. When she saw me doing this at the track meet said, my coach, like in the nineties for gymnastics used to give us spoonfuls of honey at meets, like in between, you know, before you would perform an event. So I think, you know, adults, kids, whatever, honey straws. There's and.
Lauren (06:59.488)
Yeah.
Vanessa (06:59.58)
So funny.
Vanessa (07:08.796)
I'm gonna have to try that. I was tired in the afternoon.
Lauren (07:09.088)
And they seem, it's funny because I didn't know that that was the route you were taking with them. I just thought like, I constantly buy honey and then it gets all congealed. Right? And I was thinking those would be perfect to like, if you wanted to sweeten up your tea or something, because they're individual and they wouldn't ever congeal. Then you have to heat it up in the microwave and then that's the whole issue and whatever. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (07:18.26)
Yes, I know.
Vanessa (07:18.513)
Now, yeah.
Teri (07:22.701)
and you can squeeze them in. Yeah.
Teri (07:29.509)
Well, they're nice and portable. And then I was a little under the weather a week or two ago. And so I like threw a couple in my work bag, knowing that like when I would have tea and stuff at work, then I can I can coat my throat and suck some of these down.
Lauren (07:38.188)
Yeah. Coat your throat. Yeah.
Vanessa (07:39.014)
Yeah.
Vanessa (07:43.467)
my gosh, my grandma used to that spoonful of honey and then you squeeze some like lemon on top and you throw up. Old school. Yeah, I've seen them at like fairs and festivals. I was always like, can I have, yes. Yeah, her school has bees and like they have like a honey fest or I forget what they call it, but they have those there too. So, but I never knew that they were for like a burst of energy. It's good to know.
Lauren (07:43.64)
Good idea.
Lauren (07:48.224)
Uh-huh.
Teri (07:50.019)
Yeah. So, and they're kind of fun. You like pop them with your teeth and suck them down. So.
Wilhelmina (07:51.36)
you
Lauren (07:56.737)
Yeah, like a farmer's market. Like, yeah, yeah.
Teri (07:58.883)
Yeah.
Lauren (08:02.509)
Yeah.
fun.
Teri (08:08.377)
Yeah. How about you, Vanessa?
Vanessa (08:11.826)
so I'm going to share today, something that I incorporate into like my workout. So everybody here has either has one or has seen someone using a weighted vest. Like that's the hot thing. Everyone's talking about weighted vest, weighted vest. I purchased one and to be honest, like I never really got into it. Now, Mark, my husband uses it multiple times a day. He walks our dog 500 times a day, literally. And he wears it every single time he goes out. And so it's getting used, but I just
I know, I just couldn't get into it. But I've always been an ankle weight person. I've had them forever, even before the weighted vest. It's just like a nice way to add, especially to like ab exercises, like lower ab exercises. Like if you've kind of gotten to the point where you're like, okay, I can do like 100 of these, you know, and I don't feel like I like I want to up my game because this is too easy. It's just adding the ankle weights to your ab exercises. And also just I'll walk around with them. I just put my ankle and I just walk around with them. And it's just like a nice
Lauren (09:06.936)
Yeah, that's good idea.
Vanessa (09:11.1)
kind of like added leg workout. And so the pair I have, I've actually purchased them twice. So I left them at our other house that we have at the beach. So I didn't have to lug them back and forth. I have five pound weights right now. I think I'm going to go move up to the next level. And I got them on Amazon for like 20 bucks, but yeah, you could go on a walk with them in theory and you can just walk around the house and then, but I love them just to add a little boost to the exercise with little ankle weights. So I'll share those. I think.
Lauren (09:26.21)
Nice.
Vanessa (09:37.554)
Terry, you were just saying before we logged on that you were wondering if you had a fair.
Lauren (09:37.848)
Have
Teri (09:39.501)
I was just, I was wondering if I've ever purchased a pair of ankle weights and I was wandering around our basement in the house looking around to see maybe I do buy things and completely forget that they exist. And then I discover them again, which is like very fun actually. like, I was gonna do a workout. I was gonna put them on my ankles and do a workout. So as a side note,
Lauren (09:42.638)
So random.
Vanessa (09:47.314)
HMMMM
Lauren (09:52.974)
you
Vanessa (09:53.521)
all the time. Yeah. What were you planning on doing with them?
Lauren (09:59.727)
There you go.
Vanessa (09:59.729)
Yeah, yeah, that's what I did.
Teri (10:03.799)
My mom back in the 80s had these monster, do you know I'm talking about? They were black and they were like, yes, yes, yes. They were Velcro and you'd like wrap them around. And I remember my mom doing workouts with them. And then I would use them sometimes like once I got older and they were like these beasts of, I felt like that must've been the only option that existed for ankle weights back in the day. Yes, yes.
Lauren (10:06.83)
I know it's the Velcro. Yes.
Wilhelmina (10:08.946)
I, a hundred percent, yes.
Vanessa (10:09.027)
yeah, yeah, yeah, these don't look like that. Yeah, yeah.
Lauren (10:16.174)
Yeah
Lauren (10:22.946)
Yeah
Lauren (10:26.306)
Yeah, filled with sand. Yeah. I'm guessing Vanessa, you're gonna share ones that are a little sleeker than that.
Vanessa (10:27.25)
That's it. Yeah.
Teri (10:32.217)
Yeah, yes.
Vanessa (10:32.338)
I mean, I don't know. mean, think there's lots. Yes, they're definitely not the big, like, old school ones. They are Velcro, though, but they're smaller. They're smaller. Yeah. And I also wanted to, like, I wanted to make sure that I was going to use them. So I bought, like, I looked for a pair that had good reviews that were not super expensive. Like, you could go nuts. Like, they have some where you can, change the weights on them. I just bought, like, a basic pair. So I'll share my basic pair on our Instagram. But yes, you could get much fancier than that. But if you're just trying to figure out if you think you're going to use them, I think this is a good pair to have to just.
Teri (10:37.199)
Yes, they're like a wrap. Yes. Okay, yes.
Lauren (10:38.254)
Really? would have to like wrap them around.
Lauren (10:47.042)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (10:52.898)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (11:00.739)
Yeah.
Vanessa (11:02.278)
figure out like, am I gonna actually use these? Because I am also notorious for buying things that I think I'm gonna use and then I don't use them. And then I can't return them.
Lauren (11:12.248)
Yes.
Teri (11:12.357)
And then sometimes I buy things twice and then I have two things and then I go, oh, yeah.
Wilhelmina (11:15.232)
You mean.
Vanessa (11:15.324)
Well, that's fine.
Lauren (11:15.758)
Wilhelmina (11:18.88)
Do know how often I do that? Like so regularly, because I'll be looking and then I'll add it to the cart and then I won't buy it. And then I'll be like, I forgot to buy this. And I'll go and add it again. Like my daughter's 13th birthday banner that I bought twice. Twice, yeah. So I was like, mate, can I hang it twice? I was like, just return it. I was like, okay, fine.
Lauren (11:33.846)
we've got two of those? nice.
Vanessa (11:34.556)
Hahaha!
Teri (11:35.333)
Two. Two.
Vanessa (11:40.178)
Hahaha!
Teri (11:43.045)
How about you, Lauren?
Vanessa (11:44.882)
Lauren. Yeah, Lauren.
Lauren (11:47.819)
So I'm going to discuss like a, I guess a service, a concept. So have you guys heard of Donate Stuff? It's a company, online company with actual like physical locations. It is in Illinois. I looked it up before we came on here. It is not in Maryland. But so for listeners, it's in Michigan, Illinois. It's in like, I don't, let's say eight states or something like that.
So it's DonateStuff.com and it's a service in which you go on and you can pick your date and then your charity that you want to donate to and they come and pick it up off your porch, which is like amazing. So I know. So here's the thing, like in foreshadowing what we're going to talk about, like one of the things I personally, I clearly always end up feeling when things in the world feel out of control is like, how do I make my world smaller and control what I can.
Wilhelmina (12:31.168)
You are speaking my language.
Vanessa (12:31.49)
nice.
Hahaha.
Lauren (12:46.392)
control and how can I help? So I think that's what ended up happening with me last week because I just was like, okay, I need to clean out closets and donate things. But so this is probably the third time I've used it. And so this time I picked a local foster home. And so they will tell you like we need women's, men's and children's clothing. We need like housewares that are
They take blankets, they take towels, like all this, like they tell you exactly what. And then books, little toys, things like that. And you just have to bag it up or box it up. And then they give you these signs in your email and you leave it on your porch the day you pick. And at some point during the day, they come and pick it up. And for somebody that has done Salvation Army a hundred times in my life, right?
Wilhelmina (13:19.985)
Mmm.
Lauren (13:37.845)
sits in the back of my car for like weeks before I end up going to Salvation Army. So if you're like me, this feels so much better. It's super efficient. There are, so for me, there were like four five different places I could choose from. So Purple Hearts on there, like two local charities or organizations. There's animal rescue one on there as well. and you...
Vanessa (13:39.25)
you
Lauren (14:02.86)
You don't have to donate things specifically for those organizations. You could donate all the clothes and then they're going to go and put them somewhere else and then get funds for animal rescue or whatever it is. It's a great concept. It works so well. And so like they're coming to my house to pick things up in two days. And then just by, you know, by the time we get home, it'll be gone. And I know it's gone to a good place. And it's not in the back of my trunk for like three months. So yeah.
Teri (14:11.141)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (14:20.949)
that.
Wilhelmina (14:28.85)
or in our office, our office just becomes like a second goodwill. And then it's like too much stuff to even load up to our car. then we, it's, yeah. Now, do they take furniture? Can you find a place that takes furniture?
Vanessa (14:29.127)
Thank
Lauren (14:32.91)
Yes. So the only rules, like at least for my local one, so you do have to click first. So it'd be interesting if you clicked and then they tell you exactly. For ours, they take anything that you can bag or box. So
Teri (14:33.295)
camping ground.
Vanessa (14:34.759)
Yeah.
Vanessa (14:39.474)
I was just ask that, yeah.
Vanessa (14:54.607)
Okay.
Lauren (14:55.018)
I have done like lamps or small tables as long as I've been able to put them in a garbage bag because they want to make it easy for their workers coming to your home in terms of the way that they take things. So they'll take like bikes and things like that, but you have to figure out a way to bag or box them to make it easier for them to load them into their trucks. At least that's for our local pickup crew. So, but it would be interesting if it was any different, but yeah, it's amazing. I love it.
Wilhelmina (15:01.855)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (15:24.128)
so much more efficient than I've ever ever done things. So when you feel like you have to do something that that's a good one. Willa Mina, what about you? Did you wait you shared? I'm it. That was it. Okay, that's right. You started. Okay. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (15:24.233)
awesome.
Vanessa (15:25.052)
Great.
Teri (15:25.349)
I like it.
Teri (15:31.621)
I like that.
Wilhelmina (15:31.712)
I already went normal people. Yep. already know. actually, one thing I wanted to add about normal people, not that this really matters, I think, for anyone here, but it is one to watch without kids. I think it probably goes without saying, but it is very sexual at times. like, like the joke is you will see Paul Mescal's penis like a couple of different times. so don't. Yeah. yeah. But it's like
Vanessa (15:34.861)
She's sorry.
Teri (15:37.647)
That's it.
Lauren (15:50.307)
Ha
Vanessa (15:53.426)
Interesting.
Teri (15:58.425)
Vanessa (15:58.507)
Seriously, I wasn't gonna watch before, but...
Wilhelmina (16:01.162)
But here's the thing, it's like real. It's so funny because it's just like, it's so real though. It's not like, it's like, they're just like hanging out and just naked. Like it's, and you're just like, there's Paul Mescal's penis, right? Just right there. Hello. Hanging out naked. Hanging out naked.
Teri (16:05.381)
I don't even know who he is.
Vanessa (16:07.506)
you
Teri (16:20.005)
Note to self Google Paul Mescal. Okay. I will, I will. I will. I always say that I will about half the time. Okay.
Lauren (16:20.44)
They're just hanging out naked, that seems very real. Just like all the rest of us.
Vanessa (16:21.458)
That's very real. So real.
Wilhelmina (16:28.244)
You don't need to Google it, Terry. Just watch the show. cannot.
Vanessa (16:30.866)
Oh my gosh. Oh my goodness. All right. All right. So let's go ahead and transition to our topic today. I know. Let's shift away from that. Although, you know, I think, again, you were talking about things that you can do to make yourself feel better in these situations. I think laughing and finding things that can kind of take your mind off are obviously...
Lauren (16:37.87)
Shifting gear is hard.
Wilhelmina (16:39.456)
Shift away from fall muscles penis. Okay.
Teri (16:41.669)
Yes. Yes.
Lauren (16:43.659)
shift.
Wilhelmina (16:46.88)
you
Lauren (16:50.594)
Yes, let's use that transition.
Lauren (16:58.126)
That's true. That's true.
Vanessa (16:59.602)
things that can be really helpful. So ladies, I think we can start off this by maybe just saying, how are we all feeling right now, just kind of in general, and then we can kind of just go from there as far as what we're doing, the conversations that we're having or other things that we're doing to kind of cope with everything that's going on, how we're feeling. I can kind of start off and just say that, like Lauren was saying, it's been a lot.
going on, you know, I feel like I've run the gamut of emotions personally, of just feeling like completely just devastated to feeling angry to feeling like, I just need to, you know, take a step away from everything. so, and I think that's the way a lot of people are feeling.
Teri (17:47.725)
I would agree with that. feel like it's all over the place. It goes up and down and sideways and you go from being horrified and devastated to sometimes numb and feeling like, okay, I just got to have my kids do their homework. Okay, now we're going back to that. I wonder how much I should talk with them about. I wonder what was discussed at school today, what will be discussed at sports practice tonight or school tomorrow.
Vanessa (17:51.378)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (18:16.362)
just overwhelming empathy and sadness and then anger and then all of that in one big mess within sometimes the same five to ten minutes. And I think part of the difficulty is that social media and our current just news media cycle, even just the TV has that same whiplash where it's just, here's a funny meme.
Here's a devastating horror story. Here's a clip of something. It's just like ding, ding, ding. It's pinball. And so, you I feel like not only do I feel like that personally, emotionally, I also feel like that's what's being, I'm being presented with sometimes also, if that makes sense.
Lauren (18:49.592)
Yeah.
Vanessa (18:59.122)
Yeah, absolutely does.
Wilhelmina (18:59.476)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (18:59.488)
And yeah, and we were never meant to consume information in this way. And so I think like we are not from an evolutionary standpoint, like we're not equipped, our brains have not adapted to the way in which we are consuming and being fed information. So I think that makes it even more overwhelming if we don't realize that that's what's happening. Like you said that bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.
Wilhelmina (19:05.469)
No, not the speed and not.
Teri (19:07.96)
The speed and.
Lauren (19:29.07)
If we're not super aware of like what our limits are I mean because even if we feel like we know our personal limits like just like Mankind is not meant to have this kind of information coming at us in the way it's coming at us in without warning often so to your point Terry if you're somebody that like scrolls through stories or something like that and you could be like
Wilhelmina (19:48.457)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (19:52.721)
Yeah.
Lauren (19:54.371)
consuming some like fun stuff, lighthearted stuff, somebody's first day of school or their birthday or whatever, and then you're hit with something from somebody's social media page that you weren't expecting. Our brains can't compute that. So it is, it's overwhelming.
Vanessa (20:02.576)
Yeah.
yeah.
Vanessa (20:10.386)
Definitely.
Wilhelmina (20:11.742)
And I think I will get sort of consumed by it. And then my mind will be there. I'm thinking about it. Oftentimes I have like, have a handful of patients that will talk about it in therapy because of how they're feeling overwhelmed about it. And then I'll do something like go out and meet someone for dinner, meet friends for dinner and
Teri (20:27.402)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (20:29.329)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (20:39.27)
no one will talk about any of it because we are in such sort of a divisive country right now where I feel like everyone, unless you sort of know a person well, no one wants to sort of bring it up. And then I'm sitting here being like, I don't even know how to like talk about something normal, something light when my mind is like filled with this, but then no one else is talking about it. And so then it's sort of this weird isolating thing where you're left
Teri (20:58.884)
Right.
Wilhelmina (21:08.96)
sort of not just the elephant in the room of no one's talking about it, which I think can be, as I said, like very isolating. And then it's also at times refreshing because it's like, OK, good, we're taking a break from talking about it.
Vanessa (21:22.257)
I think.
Lauren (21:22.318)
I was just going to say, because that could be the person across from you thinking, like, I had three patients today that I talked about this with. I am so good with talking with Wilhelmina about what our kids are doing in school right now. So it could be not that they're feeling isolated, but actually that they're gaining connection from you while you're feeling isolated, but they're feeling like, good, I need a break.
Teri (21:34.808)
Right.
Vanessa (21:43.507)
Yeah, I was just thinking too that sometimes, you know, it's hard because you don't know if that's where they're at and you don't want to be like the Debbie Downer who's like, all of a sudden, you know, you're out and this is supposed to be a fun, you know, friends night out or, you know, whatever. And you're you're saying like, hey, everyone, let's talk about this like topic that's very heavy right now. So I think it's hard sometimes to. Right.
Teri (21:57.112)
Right.
Teri (22:04.069)
Right. Which I have a hard time not doing. I have a hard time.
Wilhelmina (22:07.904)
I actually do too. I often am that person. I'm like, does anyone want to talk about the horrible state of the world right now? No? Okay. Got it. What is everyone watching on Netflix?
Lauren (22:08.555)
Hahaha
Teri (22:11.428)
I'm always well. I know. Well, right.
Vanessa (22:13.934)
Yeah, I know. I know. think I recently went out to dinner like just back to back dinners. And like, I think at some point, I was like, I kind of want to know like what you know, and I brought it up and I tried to like bring it up in a you know, like a casual way. But it's it's I think, I think you also have to know your your group, right?
I definitely have the friends that I know that I can just be like, what in the fuck, like, and sends a text, right? And then I have other people where like you were saying, well, Amina, that you don't really know where they stand because maybe you've just never had those conversations with them or they're not just, they're not as close friends and you don't want to like start, you know, a conversation that's going to lead to, I don't know, anything that's, you know, like a negative situation, right? When you're out having dinner, right?
Lauren (22:37.336)
your audience.
Wilhelmina (22:37.406)
You do, you do.
Wilhelmina (23:05.812)
Well, it's, didn't, and that's what I was, what, like the things that I want to talk about are not actually anything political in the sense of like, I actually think most people feel universally, like the things that are going on in our country are like scary and horrible. I think that's like, and so it's strange that it feels strange to me that we can't talk about it because then it somehow does become political, which I'm like, but they're not politic,
Lauren (23:05.87)
But it didn't used to be that way.
Teri (23:06.34)
It did not, it did not used to be that way.
Vanessa (23:08.334)
Didn't, yeah. Yes, yes.
Vanessa (23:23.164)
Yeah. Whatever you're, yeah.
Wilhelmina (23:36.2)
many of them are not necessarily political things. So it's just of, yes, I was like these horrible tragedies all over, happening all the time. And yet we can't talk about them because of politics, it seems strange. It seems very like strange to my brain where I know I'm not the only one weighed down by the heaviness of the world. mean, obviously we all are, right?
Lauren (23:38.678)
No, they're like humanistic topics. Yeah, I know.
Vanessa (23:38.802)
Yeah, yeah.
Teri (23:39.62)
Right. Right. Right.
Teri (24:01.241)
And the other thing is all of us were in college when 9-11 happened, right? So we all have as young adults, a collective experience of what it was like to have something real sudden and really heavy and really scary just show up on a beautiful Tuesday morning in the fall, right? And just took our country and like thrust us at things just felt turned upside down. And we all probably remember how cohesive everybody.
Wilhelmina (24:05.866)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (24:06.684)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (24:15.508)
smash into your life.
Yep.
Teri (24:30.978)
was and felt and that that unity and united and how what that experience was like for the world to feel like a really scary place and for scary stuff to be happening but to feel like at least people were in it together. And I think what's missing is that is that piece when we have these horrific things happen. And I also feel like for myself personally I sort of anticipated this before I had kids.
Vanessa (24:31.216)
Yeah, came together and absolutely. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (24:31.39)
Yes. Yes.
Lauren (24:31.63)
you
Wilhelmina (24:44.948)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (24:48.894)
I agree. I agree.
Teri (25:00.078)
Like I remember working in a school when Sandy Hook happened, when those classroom of first graders were killed. And I remember thinking, well, they said I have to have any kids I have to explain this to because I had parents at the time in my therapy work were asking me, how do I talk to my kids about this when they hear about it, like they're teenagers. And I remember thinking, maybe there won't be as many school shootings by the time I have kids. And like, we won't have to explain much of it. I remember thinking that and how naive.
Vanessa (25:03.516)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (25:22.27)
Ugh.
Vanessa (25:25.19)
or even thinking like this won't happen again, right? Because why would this happen again? Right, yeah.
Teri (25:28.066)
Well, not like this. This would never happen again. And lo and behold, two weeks ago, my kids are sitting in mass at the exact same time those poor kids were sitting in mass in Minneapolis. Like it's nothing has changed. And so it's like.
Wilhelmina (25:38.334)
Yeah.
And not only that, things have actually escalated and gotten worse from that standpoint. Statistically, yeah.
Teri (25:45.647)
Statistically, absolutely. Yeah, statistically they've gotten significantly worse. And that's like, those are just facts when you look at how many shootings have actually occurred. And so, you know, I think viewing it from the lens as a parent versus just a, very, is also very different, I think, than it was before I had kids.
Wilhelmina (25:55.584)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (26:00.029)
very different.
Vanessa (26:04.019)
I also think when things first started, you know, like you said, the first time one of these situations happen, we didn't have kids. So obviously you think about it in a very different way than if you have a child in the moment. And I think there was a period of time where your brain is constantly trying to find reason for, right? Like your answers and reasoning and reassurance for yourself so that you're not, you know, anxious or feeling, you know, so you're like a way to control how you're feeling. And so I think for a long time I was like, this is a high school thing.
Lauren (26:20.275)
Answers.
Teri (26:20.547)
Yes.
Vanessa (26:31.398)
And then when it wasn't a high school, was like, this is a public school thing. And then it wasn't a public school. And so we're constantly like, and I think we've gotten to the point where there is no, it's not, there is no like, this is a this thing, that thing, it's happening. Yes, exactly, right, exactly. That's a great way to put it. That it's just happening. And now we're parents, right? Now we are also parents. And so this is definitely something that.
Teri (26:31.758)
Mmm.
Lauren (26:32.419)
Yeah.
Lauren (26:41.645)
Yeah.
Teri (26:44.588)
Right, no one's immune.
Wilhelmina (26:45.312)
We've comforted ourselves into a corner. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, and.
Vanessa (26:56.418)
I think we all think of, regardless of where your political views are, you think about the safety of your children. And we had talked about getting Everly a gizmo watch. I think we even brought it up on here for like, because drop-offs. And she's going to be doing more stuff kind of like independently this way. She can reach out to me. We've had a couple of incidents on the bus where she didn't know where she was getting off because sometimes she gets off at one stop, something or the other. So it's a way. And after what has happened just more recently,
You know, I said to Mark, was like, I think we need to do this. And not just for the reasons that we were initially thinking, but I'm like, man, if something happened, we could find her or she could reach out to us. And I'm thinking, and then my next thought is like, what in the fuck? Like, do I really have to, like, is this really a thing that I have to think of as a parent? It's like, if this happens to my child, because now it's just happened so much that you can't, you can't think that, well, it's never gonna happen.
Teri (27:34.658)
more easily. Yeah.
Lauren (27:40.835)
care.
Vanessa (27:54.193)
to my kid in my child's school because we've kind of, you know, we were just saying a minute ago that it's happening in lots of different situations. You can't say now like, it's never gonna happen to my, at my child's school or to my child. It's just isn't a realistic thought to have anymore.
Wilhelmina (28:10.954)
Well, you talked about like, how do you talk to your kids? And I know this is something we've talked about, right? In our text thread, we have talked about like, are you guys mentioning this with your kids? Are you talking about it? How are you talking about it? And we don't watch really much news in our house for a variety of reasons. So they don't hear about much in our house. And they don't have access to social media or things like that. So like, I know that Maddie and Griffin are not seeing those things, at least
Lauren (28:15.758)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Teri (28:16.356)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (28:20.002)
Yeah.
Teri (28:28.439)
Mm-hmm, same.
Wilhelmina (28:39.772)
at home or so I was sort of like, I'm gonna wait till they come to me, you know, and then they can ask the question so that they're coming to me with the information they have. And then I can kind of give them an answer based on what they ask. And so then after Minnesota, especially because it was Minnesota, and we had just been there, I sort of waited, didn't hear anything. And then after last week, and all that went down, I was sort of like, I still am not hearing anything. So at dinner the other night, I said,
Hey guys, have you heard about anything going on in the news? And I was shocked, open, open-ended. And Maddie quickly was like, you mean this guy that got shot? And I was like, yeah, yes, yes, that would be one of them. then she was like, and the school shooting in Minnesota? And I was like, my God. And I said, And I was taken aback and I felt.
Teri (29:11.3)
Just sort of open, open ended. Yeah.
Vanessa (29:15.056)
Yeah, just anything.
Lauren (29:17.346)
They both knew.
Wilhelmina (29:37.898)
horrible because I was like, they knew about these things and they didn't even come to me to talk to them. So then we had this conversation about what happened and I answered the questions they had. Trying to do it, I know Terry, you have always said like, answer the question they ask and like, don't give more details. Don't give more details than they, you know, than they need. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Teri (29:53.816)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (29:58.608)
details.
Teri (29:58.949)
Mm-hmm. Find out what they know and answer the questions they ask. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Vanessa (30:02.096)
Yeah. Right.
Lauren (30:04.674)
Be curious first. Why are you asking? What do you know? Yeah.
Wilhelmina (30:09.332)
And it was fairly straightforward from that point, except then the added thing that I felt like I had to add, and it made me just kind of very sad, was, hey guys, there's videos going around now. if anyone ever wants to show you a video and you don't know what they're gonna show you, please don't watch it. And...
Teri (30:37.016)
Yeah. And what to say, like give them script.
Wilhelmina (30:38.48)
that they sort of were like, and they were like, why? They were like, why? And I was like, well, because there's footage out there of this happening. And I actually was very honest with them. I was like, I have seen this footage. I said, you do not want to see this footage. I promise you, you don't want to see this footage. I believe it will scare you. It's not good footage. didn't want to like it was not. I didn't want to see this footage. And so but I'm like, why am I watching? Why am I giving this advice to my children?
Teri (31:07.608)
because in the day and age we live in, the odds of something being recorded, mean, think about like what
Wilhelmina (31:07.732)
Like this is like what kind of.
Vanessa (31:12.283)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (31:13.333)
Right.
Lauren (31:13.506)
Well, we were talking last week about the silly stuff that gets recorded. I mean, compared to this, the silly stuff. Everything is being recorded. Everything.
Vanessa (31:17.722)
Right. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I will say, yeah. I mean, I will say the same thing. Well, I mean, I was not looking to find that. Like, I heard it was out there, and I was not looking for it. Somebody I know put it on one of their, like, on their Instagram, on their personal Instagram. And I was like, why are you? Yeah. And I was like, you know, when you go through the, like, the, yeah, I was like, whoa. And I quickly went past it. And I was like, I was not looking for that. And
Teri (31:18.084)
Yes. Right. is being recorded.
Wilhelmina (31:33.312)
whoa, whoa.
Wilhelmina (31:45.192)
No. No.
Lauren (31:45.293)
I know.
Vanessa (31:45.797)
was not expecting that to be on someone's Instagram. They were like reposting the like somebody's reel of it. And I was shocked that someone felt like that was... Yes. Yeah. And I'm not, I was not looking for that.
Wilhelmina (31:59.562)
something they should post on their page. Right. Right.
Lauren (32:04.558)
That goes exactly back to what we were saying earlier. It's like, our brains are not, not only are you not actually seeking it out, our brains cannot compute what it is we're seeing. So can you imagine kids' brains that we all know are not fully formed to understand a lot of things that are more abstract. They can't. And so to your point, Wilhelmina, unfortunately, talking to them where they're at, but it's
Vanessa (32:09.681)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (32:24.608)
Great.
Teri (32:33.252)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (32:34.482)
I personally would rather have the conversation at home than have them hear it or see it elsewhere. And then I think Terry was there or you referenced what Terry has said in the past, which I of course, agree with and frequently say is like, be curious about what they want to know. And what questions they have as opposed to giving them unfiltered information that they might not be ready to take in or need.
Wilhelmina (32:40.064)
100%.
Teri (32:42.009)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (32:53.854)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Teri (32:54.03)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (33:01.92)
especially given wherever they're at developmentally, because then again, they can't compute. Like brain cannot understand.
Teri (33:02.158)
Right.
Vanessa (33:08.046)
Right. Well, I think it's, and I think it's hard to, cause you know, well, I I completely, you know, you're waiting to see if they would come to you because you didn't want to be the one who was like, you know, you're trying not, not to, right. Cause they didn't know, right. And you don't want to be the one. And they're like, what, what's going on? And so I get that. So really think it depends on like your children's age. Like, yes, like I'm not surprised Maddie knew because of her age, right. And her friends probably have social media and phones or people in her grade. Right. So.
Teri (33:08.324)
All right.
Wilhelmina (33:08.341)
Yes.
Lauren (33:15.533)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (33:15.584)
Hey guys! Right, right.
Teri (33:17.284)
And what if they didn't know? What if they didn't know? Right.
Lauren (33:18.252)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (33:34.228)
Yep, they do.
Vanessa (33:36.739)
Versus like my daughter's eight and I was like 99.9 percent sure like that wasn't going to land in her world at this time Especially because most of the kids who are she's friends with don't have older siblings They're either like an only like her or they are the oldest and so I felt comfortable not having the conversation with her but it's definitely tricky depending on your child's age or you know, they're the grade they're in or who they're around right like maybe
Lauren (33:59.673)
Yeah.
Vanessa (34:06.066)
your kids are playing sports with older kids who are around and they may be talking about, know, Terry, you've mentioned that in different scenarios for your boys. And so I think it is hard. Like, how do you find the right balance of saying, hey, do you know what's going on if they don't know? But I like the way that you did that, Wilhelmina, was just kind of so, know, because they could have been like, I don't know, you know, like this very kind of general question about that. think it was a good way to approach it so that you're not.
Lauren (34:10.616)
Yep. Yep. Yep.
Teri (34:10.724)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Lauren (34:27.118)
Thank
Teri (34:28.451)
Right.
Vanessa (34:34.438)
sharing something that maybe they don't know and they have no clue about, but then being able to address it. And I guess, Wilma, my question for you is when they were like, yeah, did you get the sense that they weren't like worried about it or not? Like, what was your sense of where they were at with that information? I'm just so curious.
Wilhelmina (34:50.026)
So they didn't seem, I think a little bit when I said, hey, do you know that that school was like a mile away from where we stayed? I know Maddie had like a look of like, wow. And I kind of was like, I sort of am at taking this point because of her age of also, I want to sort of.
ground her in the sense of like, you don't need to be scared, but then these things can happen. And I think sometimes it's like, that stuff happens in scary places or dangerous places. And it's sort of like, it doesn't. So it's this nuanced, like, I wanted her to kind of know this, but we have already had the conversation when they've done the drills and such at their school.
Vanessa (35:28.572)
Yeah.
Vanessa (35:41.904)
That's Yep.
Teri (35:42.222)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (35:42.306)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (35:43.102)
We've talked about the safety of their school and all of that. So they did not seem worried about it. think Maddie was surprised that we had just been so close to that school. And I think that was a bit of a shock to her. And again, saying these things and even giving her that knowledge makes me feel sad.
Lauren (36:08.568)
So something similar happened with my boys that I did, asked them, Wilhelmina, know, hey, anything, you know, that you heard at school and they both had heard. So we had a conversation and I let them lead with questions and they didn't have very many. They just, talked about like the sadness of like there are sad things happening in the world. Then I added, would you like me to tell you?
Vanessa (36:19.25)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (36:36.694)
when there are sad things that happen in the future? Or would you like to hear it? How would you and they both said, we'd like you to tell me and I said, okay. So now I feel like as horrific as the events were, we did, we kept it super, at their level. I only answered the questions that they had. and then I did follow up with in the future, unfortunately, bad things happen in the world.
Teri (36:37.955)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (36:38.624)
Ooh, I like that.
Vanessa (36:39.324)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (36:44.927)
GASP
I love that.
Lauren (37:05.902)
And I'm wondering if you'd rather hear them from me then. you know, and well, it's funny and interesting, Jack, my 10 year old said he had heard kids were talking about it at school, and he wasn't sure what was true and what wasn't, because they're 10. And so I said, Okay, so then if if, and when the you know, something bad in the world happens again, I'm going to tell you, just so you know about it. But then I also gave them the caveat.
Vanessa (37:20.124)
Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (37:20.434)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Teri (37:20.598)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right.
Lauren (37:34.159)
but not all parents are doing that. But obviously there's parents on the other end of the thing that are telling the kids before we've even processed it, right? Like the moment it happens or they've got the news on 24 seven in their home and we're very conscious of that as well. That is not on our televisions. 10 and 12. Unfortunately, so fifth and sixth grade, fifth and sixth, and they had heard about it within the day.
Vanessa (37:36.036)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. We're telling too much. Yeah. Yeah.
Teri (37:36.332)
I told my kids the same thing. Yeah.
Too much. Too much.
Vanessa (37:50.79)
Lauren, your boys are 10 and 12, just so that people listening are under the frame of reference for age range. So 10 and 12, we'll limit this.
Teri (38:02.277)
And I will say, I like how you worded that better, Lauren, because I asked my 10 year old fifth grader sort of a similar question, but I worded it differently because when I shared the information with him, he had not heard about it. And I sort of assumed he probably would have at he was at a sports practice that night with kids of varying ages. And we got in the car and he hadn't. And so I gave him, you know, sort of the rundown of what happened.
Lauren (38:20.066)
would.
Teri (38:30.646)
And his takeaway was like, why did you tell me that? I didn't want to know that. And I said, you know, I said, would you, and so I came back at him and said, would you rather me not? Like, would you rather hear about it from kids at school? I go, and he's like, no. And so the way it came out was similar conversation. Yeah. He's like, but no, he's like, I do want you to hear it from you. And what's really interesting is his little brother is in third grade is eight and it was just him and I in the car.
Lauren (38:34.094)
Wilhelmina (38:34.236)
you
Vanessa (38:34.758)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (38:47.264)
.
Lauren (38:48.142)
He's like, no, but also.
Wilhelmina (38:51.616)
You
Teri (39:00.738)
And I believe to this day, my eight year old still doesn't know what happened. his my his like brother didn't tell him like Danny has not told Tommy what happened. I think he tries to, you know, sort of protect him in some ways, even though they're only two years apart. But that's on any my rule of thumb. don't know. I would be curious if you guys would agree or disagree. I think if your child is in third grade or up.
Vanessa (39:06.225)
It has no clue.
Wilhelmina (39:06.336)
Hmm.
Vanessa (39:13.916)
Yeah, protect him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (39:14.282)
shelter him.
Lauren (39:15.032)
That's good out of him, yeah.
Teri (39:27.33)
you should probably have the open-ended, hey, heard of anything lately type of conversation. Because if you have a third grader and they have any older siblings, cousins, neighbors, friends who are even six months to a year older than them, there is a very good possibility it could be in the conversation. So I think, I don't know if you guys would agree or disagree with that, but I think.
Lauren (39:50.071)
I completely agree. You know, it's interesting. So obviously, my boys are at a private school as are yours, Terry and Vanessa, right? But so ours are private and faith based. another, this is, you just kind of struck something in my head when you said like third grade and up at our school, and this would be true, actually, at a public school too, but just in a a slightly different way, they'll pray for people.
Wilhelmina (39:51.39)
I agree.
Vanessa (39:58.29)
Yeah.
Teri (40:17.699)
Yes.
Lauren (40:17.836)
like intent, just good intentions for people. Okay. And sometimes they've heard about like a grandparent's death or a parent that's sick with something or whatever. And they've had questions about that. And I, it, and that's gotta be confusing also. and a much smaller scale, of course, but so it's worth it at very, at that, would say third grade is a really good kind of,
Teri (40:25.956)
They pray for a lot of things.
Vanessa (40:29.009)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (40:29.301)
Hmm.
Teri (40:30.136)
Yes.
Lauren (40:41.726)
age and stage to just say, know, anything that, you know, anybody talking about anything or anything you were wondering about or, know, questions you had at school that you didn't get answered that had nothing to do with your schoolwork, you know, like that kind of because sometimes I've had the kids go, I didn't know so and so's mom was, you know, and I was like, I didn't know you knew that.
Vanessa (40:47.676)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (41:02.414)
But and it's like with the best of intentions, but then you got to kind of follow up as a parent and be like, yep. And, you know, that's very nice that you guys, you know, were thinking about her today or wrote her get well cards or whatever it is that they had done. So it's out there. And if you don't talk to them about it, somebody else probably will in some way, or form.
Wilhelmina (41:20.842)
Someone will.
Teri (41:21.954)
Yes. Yes.
Wilhelmina (41:24.116)
Well, and my daughter is in, she just turned 13 today and she is in seventh grade. And I think starting, I think it was last year, it could have been fifth grade, but I know one of her classes, they watched CNN 10. It's like a little like, yes, yes, yes, yes. So I think the Minnesota shooting was, that's where she found out about it.
Teri (41:42.808)
I've heard about schools doing this. Yes. Like a little, mm-hmm.
Lauren (41:44.622)
Like a kid level.
Lauren (41:53.455)
Whoa, I don't know that I love that.
Vanessa (41:53.925)
interesting.
Wilhelmina (41:54.048)
I will have to clarify that with her, but I think that's what she said. Yeah, so I was sort of like, okay.
Lauren (42:00.1)
Bye.
Teri (42:03.373)
I believe that is where some other kids I have heard about news, that I've worked with clinically, have heard about news stories. It was from watching the CNN 10 in school.
Wilhelmina (42:07.551)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (42:11.57)
Mm.
Lauren (42:12.046)
Do you guys as parents get a heads up as to whether or not the school decided to speak about something or not? Because I know our school will send an email and say, just so you know, we did not speak about this. But they may hear it from, we didn't like discuss it in class or, right. So like we'll know that it wasn't a topic formally at school, but I'm curious.
Teri (42:24.088)
Our principal usually sends an email, yeah, to say like what the directive was to the teachers, right?
Vanessa (42:26.812)
Yeah.
Teri (42:32.814)
Yeah.
Vanessa (42:32.817)
Yeah.
Vanessa (42:36.848)
Yeah. So art art, the school I was at is they have like a lower school, middle school and a high school. So I know the whatever happens in middle school and high school world is very different than what happens in lower school. Nothing came out in our lower school goes to a fourth grade. They didn't mention anything. But I have asked her because I think it was like last year, maybe first grade. She came home and was like, yeah, we did this like, you what do do if a robber comes? That's how they're kind of
Teri (42:37.058)
Right. Right.
Lauren (42:47.607)
Right.
Wilhelmina (43:02.868)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (43:02.98)
Hmm. Yeah.
Vanessa (43:03.858)
You know telling kids that I think without scaring them and so she's in a new classroom this year and obviously because we are fresh off of You know this happening twice now since the school year started You know, said to her I was like, have you guys talked about you know that yet? It was like because it was just she just started school and feels like yeah We talked about it now because we're in a new classroom Of what we do. Yeah, and she's like, yeah, you know if the robber comes and it's so like interesting to me that she
Lauren (43:03.938)
Yeah.
Vanessa (43:31.824)
You know, she knows what a robber is, right? But she hasn't asked me, you know, why would a robber come to my school? Right. You know, and so I'm waiting for those questions to come about, you know, like, why would a robber come to my school? Or, you know, because of the way that they're wording it. And I wonder if that will shift for fifth grade when they actually start using other language to describe that. Or if they do, I don't know. Do you what do you do? You know what your guys schools sure you know what they do if they do practice these? What do they what are they using as terms?
Teri (43:38.05)
Right. Right.
Teri (43:49.988)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (43:56.853)
Mm hmm. Our sir is this week, we got a notification they're practicing this week.
Teri (44:00.8)
Vanessa (44:01.309)
But are they calling, are they're not calling it robbers? What are they saying? Safety drills, gotcha.
Wilhelmina (44:03.528)
No, they're calling it safety drills, I think is what they call them.
Teri (44:05.391)
Safety, bad, my kids, my kids takeaways, like if a bad guy comes to, know, like, right.
Lauren (44:06.03)
Yep.
Vanessa (44:09.776)
Yeah, mean hers was like if a robber comes is what she said. Yeah.
Lauren (44:11.096)
So ours is a specific system and they use the words in the system, like the boot and whatever, they use the actual words. So they really try to normalize it. I can't believe I'm using that word. But there is a sense, I think, of safety and security that kids get from it feeling normalized. So they do their fire drills, tornado drills, their safety drills.
Teri (44:28.516)
Right? Right.
Teri (44:33.773)
They know what to do.
Wilhelmina (44:36.916)
Yes, safety drills, yeah.
Vanessa (44:39.612)
safety drills, so they're calling it safety drills, yeah.
Lauren (44:39.779)
and so I think they use the language within the drill so that I don't even.
I do think kids have an incredible ability to be resilient and flexible. I mean, that's why they learn so well at these young ages, right, for good and bad. So I do think it just kind of sinks in for them and becomes part of their...
Teri (44:55.075)
Right.
Vanessa (45:01.596)
Well, yeah, when you have an adult who's speaking calmly about something, kids are gonna, they're gonna speak, yeah. And I mean, they're speaking up in a very calm way. And even as a parent, if you're talking about something in a calm way that gives your child like reassurance, like if you're, yes, if you're not using body language that's kind of, and even wording or tone of voice that's giving the message that this is okay and this is how we keep you safe.
Wilhelmina (45:02.047)
Yes.
Lauren (45:03.19)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the educators do an incredible job of that. Yep. Yeah.
Lauren (45:16.226)
that sense of security. Yep.
Teri (45:17.176)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (45:20.419)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Vanessa (45:28.784)
then I could see how a child would be like, ugh, something's wrong. But if you're approaching it in a very kind of matter of fact way, this is what we do when this happens, and this is how we keep you self safe, it does. And I think then that eliminates that, my gosh, what if something happened about what's happening, yeah.
Lauren (45:31.597)
Yeah.
Lauren (45:35.192)
Yeah. It gives them a sense of control. Yeah.
Lauren (45:43.328)
Yeah. Yeah. So I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't have a lot of questions about it, Vanessa, because it's just sort of ingrained in that reassuring way. Yeah.
Teri (45:44.548)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (45:48.337)
Yeah. mean, she's like, we do the same thing. She's like, we do the same thing if there's a tornado. And I was like, OK. So in her, it's just like, this is what we do. Yeah.
Teri (45:49.124)
Yeah.
Lauren (45:55.673)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Teri (45:56.555)
Right.
Wilhelmina (46:00.504)
Well, that's what I was going to say is we did not grow up with that, but all of our kids, this is how they are growing up. So in many ways, this is there no different for them than a tornado drill. Like a tornado drill doesn't mean a tornado is happening, but we just have to prepare for if a tornado comes. So I think we approach it from like, my gosh, these poor kids, is like, can't believe, how do they wrap their heads around this? Well, but it's not.
Lauren (46:05.667)
No.
Lauren (46:09.08)
since day one.
Teri (46:10.828)
Yeah, normal.
Lauren (46:12.12)
They're normal. Yeah.
Right. Yep.
Vanessa (46:17.916)
Right,
Lauren (46:27.234)
Yeah. They don't know any different.
Wilhelmina (46:29.812)
They do not know any different. This is their world. They've never been to school where this wasn't happening. So it's a concept that I think is just.
Lauren (46:31.97)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Teri (46:32.995)
Right.
Lauren (46:38.102)
No, it's true. mean, we remember a day when airport security wasn't what it was. Our kids, you could walk up to the gate. Our kids will never know that they've never seen that. Right. So yes, to your point there, it's just, it's a changing world and we do best if, if we are flexible and change with it and adapt in the ways that we need to, to keep our kids safe and secure. And I think that's what
Wilhelmina (46:42.592)
You could walk up to the gate. Yes!
Teri (46:42.734)
Yes, I know.
I know.
Vanessa (46:46.002)
Bring whatever you wanted with you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (46:47.68)
Never, never seen it.
Teri (46:50.67)
Right.
Lauren (47:03.244)
I think that's the goal for everybody, Is just, you know, as much as possible reassurance in giving them a sense of control in a world that feels out of control.
Vanessa (47:11.698)
Yeah, circling back to, think we talked a little bit about in the very beginning of this conversation, what are we doing just for ourselves to self care? Any other thoughts on what we should be doing to make sure that we're protecting our own peace of mind and especially during this time where it feels like everything is kind of, I guess, out of control is how I feel sometimes that you can't really control.
Lauren (47:39.912)
I stay off social media. I just... yeah.
Vanessa (47:41.073)
You can't control. Yeah, I mean, that's a great one. Yeah. I think for me, I one of the things that I like to do is, yes, you know, obviously, like shut off all the social media and then, you know, do something that I really enjoy. Like, I really enjoy reading and I read fluff trash and I like it. And it's just like a nice way to escape. And I know that, you know, same thing for shows. Like I think Wilhelmina, you were just talking about that show last week. You're like, it's just for fun. Like it's it's it's just for fun. I think, you know, it's OK to enjoy.
Teri (47:42.636)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (47:56.558)
you
Lauren (48:01.743)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (48:01.79)
Yeah. Just fun.
Vanessa (48:09.574)
those moments and do those things, especially in times like this, there's nothing wrong with looking for some joy and some quiet time in your brain. Whenever I'm reading these things or watching this show where it's just, I don't have to think, that's a good thing to be able to do that. And that's okay. And I think that that's something that people should be doing, especially now is having those things that you can just kind of escape for a period of time.
Lauren (48:11.18)
You have to.
Vanessa (48:38.342)
But I also feel like that's a slippery slope a little bit too, is if we just keep saying, of forgetting about it, not talking about it, then change doesn't happen, right? And so I think that it's finding that balance of the two.
Wilhelmina (48:43.422)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (48:47.114)
Right.
Wilhelmina (48:57.76)
So I don't know if any of you follow that therapy Jeff guy. He's like on, yeah. So he had a great, yes, he had a great post the other day and it was called, he was talking about like hyper normalization and he said, it is the state. And he said, the state that we all go in, even when like all of these things are happening within our world, becomes like, it becomes our normal. And he said, as it takes about
Teri (48:58.67)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Vanessa (49:02.704)
Yes, I don't follow him, but I've seen some of his,
Wilhelmina (49:27.616)
three days from when something like an event happens where we are all then in our heightened state. And then he said about three days hyper normalization sets in and we are just, we find ourselves kind of falling back into that. So he said, if you are wanting to take action, if you're wanting to do something, he's like, take advantage of those three days. And he said, that's where you sort of, you know, talk about it, you know,
Lauren (49:36.12)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (49:44.472)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (49:57.8)
That's where you are most likely to like take action or that's the, yes, volunteer, exactly. Anything, right. And I also think one of the other things he mentions was like, don't judge how you're feeling. Like any feeling or reaction that you're having to any of the things going on, you can just notice how you're feeling about it or notice your reactions to it.
Vanessa (50:00.21)
Thanks.
Teri (50:03.169)
volunteer or donate or whatever you feel like you can do. yeah, something action oriented.
Wilhelmina (50:27.23)
get curious, I mean, we always say like, get curious about it, but you don't have to judge yourself. You don't have to judge how you're feeling, how you're not feeling. But maybe just say like, I wonder why I'm feeling this way, or I'm wondering why this is my reaction. And if there's a point where you're feeling burnt out, where you're feeling one, what would be helpful? Would taking action be helpful? Would taking a break be helpful? Would talking to a friend be helpful?
Lauren (50:29.058)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (50:48.878)
Right.
Wilhelmina (50:56.148)
kind of taking the nuance of like action versus self care and not judging how you're feeling and thinking there's a right and a wrong way to feel for any of the things going on because as we, I think we've said many times, we are not living in a world where we're normally supposed to be seeing all of these things happen in such rapid succession. It's just not how our brains and our hearts, it's like more than we can, are supposed to be taking in.
Vanessa (51:19.122)
Yeah.
Lauren (51:22.072)
Yeah.
Vanessa (51:25.89)
I think that can also apply to the people in our lives. It's like I have now as an adult tried to, if somebody's like honking at me or doing something, I really try to just be like, hey, maybe they're having a bad day. I don't know what's going on in your life. And I try to just let it roll and not feel. And I think that we can apply that to other people, especially in situations as maybe they're still processing, give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're just not sure what to say.
Lauren (51:35.391)
Ahaha, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (51:52.691)
And obviously there are situations where it's very clear where somebody stands. But I think giving people the benefit of a doubt in these situations, especially in the current situation of our country, is really important because we just don't know. We just don't know how this particular event is affecting them. Maybe it's hitting closer to home for them for some reason, or they just don't know how to process feelings, or there's a million reasons why.
someone may be behaving the way they are, saying the things that they're saying, just don't know. And so I think that it's important to apply that also to the people around us.
Teri (52:32.376)
And one other thing I would add in as I know we're wrapping up is something my husband started doing with my kids during COVID. And I was like, kudos to you for coming up with this. And it's super basic is he would say to our kids, is there anything at all on your mind that you have anything you're wondering about, anything you have questions about, anything you want to talk about. And he'd either do it at dinner or he would do it at bedtime. And he did it with Danny was five at the time he was in kindergarten. And it was like in the midst of COVID.
Wilhelmina (52:50.367)
Mm.
love it.
Teri (53:02.395)
And Dan just sort of came out with it. And Danny was like, yes, when is COVID going to end? I hate it. And he just like unleashed. And Dan and I were like, oh, OK, maybe we're on to something. Yes. And so periodically, I'll forget to do it, but I'll like be saying good night to them or we'll be reading in bed together. Sometimes I'll lay with them and read next to them and I'll just stop and be like, anything, anything at all, like about anything, like you name it.
Vanessa (53:08.538)
Yeah.
Lauren (53:13.039)
It's probably pretty helpful for him. Yeah.
Vanessa (53:14.396)
Yeah, giving permission to.
Lauren (53:20.014)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (53:28.034)
Yep, nothing's off the table.
Teri (53:29.954)
Yeah, nothing's off the table that you have questions about. You're wondering about anything. And usually it's something super silly and like weird, like the stuff that they stuff that they come up with. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, exactly. Do you know when the new targets going to open or, whatever? Like it's something super benign and silly, but you're always pushing that door of communication open and letting your kids know that and.
Vanessa (53:29.99)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (53:34.839)
I love that.
Lauren (53:40.472)
Could you buy me Pop Tarts the next time you're at the store? Sure.
Vanessa (53:41.714)
yeah. Can we go to Disney World?
Lauren (53:49.902)
Okay, right.
Wilhelmina (53:56.544)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (53:57.318)
Yeah.
Lauren (53:58.872)
You're modeling.
Teri (53:59.572)
anything, nothing's off the table. Anything can be brought up.
Vanessa (54:02.127)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wilhelmina (54:03.615)
How often do you do that?
Teri (54:05.844)
once a month, if that, if I think, when I think of it, yeah, I forget. I'm also like, it's time to go to bed, like good night, we're not. Yeah, but when I.
Lauren (54:08.031)
I do it a lot.
My kids get annoyed with me. She probably doesn't wear in the middle. Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (54:17.546)
feel like I wouldn't do that to Maddie at bedtime, because she would be like, let me talk to you for the next three hours about everything on my mind.
Vanessa (54:23.886)
Yeah. like to do that when we're in the car driving somewhere. That's my time where I'll be like, OK, we have 25 minutes right now until we get wherever. And we're not trying to get to bed right now. And so like, hey, anything on your mind, anything you want to talk about? Sometimes I'll just even say to her, I love you. And you can always tell me anything. And she'll say, OK, mom.
Teri (54:23.99)
Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Lauren (54:24.802)
Yeah, pick your time. Pick your time carefully. Yes, on the way somewhere. It's time limited.
Wilhelmina (54:30.174)
Yes, yes.
Teri (54:35.246)
Yeah.
Lauren (54:37.07)
That's a great idea.
Lauren (54:51.522)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Nothing's off the table.
Vanessa (54:51.59)
I just want to remind her that you can tell me anything, anytime, exactly. And so even if I'm not asking her specifically, I just am letting her know. So yeah. Any last thoughts on today's topic?
Teri (54:52.579)
Yeah.
Vanessa (55:07.57)
All right, ladies. Well, this was a good combo. Thank you for joining us today. Please join us next time on The Shrinkdown.