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Every Friday, join us as we dive into the latest in real estate multifamily with David Moghavem, Head of East Coast Acquisitions at Trion Properties. David invites top experts who know the ins, outs, and trends shaping the real estate multifamily market across the nation!
Whether you’re a seasoned investor or just curious about where the next big opportunity might be, Deal Flow Friday brings you the weekly inside scoop on what’s hot, what’s not, and what to watch for in today’s ever-evolving real estate scene.
(00:00) Intro
(01:32) Mamba Edition & Old Memories
All right, welcome to another episode of DealFlow Friday. I'm your host, David Moghavem, and today we got Brian Ashagian, longtime friend and also colleague in the industry. Brian, I'm super excited to have you.
Thanks again for hopping on. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
And this is episode 24 of DealFlow Friday, and there's no one better to have for 24 Mamba edition than Brian Ashagian, the all-time Mamba fan. And we're releasing this August 8th, 8-8. It's destiny.
So this is destiny. This was unplanned, by the way, that it was episode 24. So I'm excited to have you.
I remember when we hit that Mamba game together, when he announced his retirement, it was me and you. It was just a normal, normal game against the Pacers. Yo, Dimo, you want to come? I'm like, sure.
Then on the drive there, he announced, we started crying. We saw a game tying three. That was pretty electric.
We were going crazy. And then, then they fouled, then it was three shots, and then it's like, okay, he's going to do it again. And then a year of all, but it was a good, it was a good moment.
It was a good Mamba mentality. And yeah, you still have the letter. I still have the letter.
I have it hung up. It's great motivation. And, uh, you know, when we worked, when we shared a wall, when you're at Conti and try on, I saw your work ethic and I know part of that's Mamba and we'll, we'll get into that.
But I think, uh, we definitely both channel him in our spirits when we do what we do. For sure. Um, so we'll, we'll get into that, but let me give you a clue.
Let me give the audience a quick intro. Brian is vice president at Convoy Capital, a real estate investment advisory firm. He's done half a billion in closed transactions and he continues to grow perm to bridge, perm to construction, anything multifamily related he specializes in.
Um, so we'll get into that, but Brian, it's, it's really great to have you on. Great to see you. So I guess, you know, we usually like to start just talking shop, what you're seeing out there.
(03:45) State of Ground-Up Construction Financing
I think in regards to ground up construction, it's definitely interesting time, right? You were probably originating, and I saw you originate a lot of ground up construction loans and when we were in the ZERP era, zero interest rate period era, there was a lot of that. Now you're seeing those deals finish and they need to get out of their loan. So how are you helping your clients out and getting out of their loans? Are you doing any more construction loans now? I would love to kind of hear boots on the ground, what you're busy with, how are you getting creative? Yeah.
Um, the last few years I've, I've definitely been tough, um, but there's still a lot of access to capital. That's the most important thing, uh, when it comes to ground up construction and when it comes to conventional financing, um, there have been some deals this year and last year where the sponsor would have to put in cash, um, which was a little bit unfortunate. Yeah.
But we were able to execute those deals. We're able to do rate in terms and we're also able to do cash outs. It wasn't like it was before where automatically it would be a cash out deal.
Um, but as long as the sponsor, you know, has good experience, good liquidity and the lender knows how to execute, which we help facilitate that, then we can help them get it, get out of their construction loan and lower their interest rates significantly. Um, right now with conventional financing, we can get you a rate, you know, around five 65, five 75, especially since the jobs report came out on Friday, um, jobs report. Yeah, exactly.
Rates plummeted. As you saw, they dropped like 20 basis points. We're like rooting for the opposite sometimes of what other people are rooting for.
Right. Exactly. For like, yes.
Yeah. Rates are getting lower. Exactly.
Let's get out of this. Exactly. Exactly.
Um, and when it comes to construction financing, um, before the leverage, you could easily get to 70%, maybe even 75% of cost. Now it's gone down. It's starting to trickle back up a little bit.
Um, I can confidently say we can get around 60, 65% of cost on a ground up construction deal on a ground up construction deal.
(05:10) ED1 Affordable Housing Boom in LA
I just signed up a deal last week for an ed one development project at 75% of cost. So ed one, that's the affordable construction in LA.
Exactly. Exactly. Get what's like, I guess, give the audience a little bit more detail on that.
I know that's huge right now in LA and kind of how the market rate developers are now starting to play in the affordable space. Exactly. A lot of the ed one developers or development projects are being originated from market rate developers, not even affordable developers.
Right. Um, so that's been the big shift over the last year or two. Uh, I just financed one a couple of months ago and I just signed up another deal a week ago.
Um, when it comes to ed one, yes, it's a hundred percent affordable. And the reason for that shift are a few reasons. Number one is because you can build more units on an affordable deal than a market rate deal.
Increased density. Okay. Increased density, increased income.
Actually I just found this out yesterday. Uh, they actually increased the, um, ed one income on July 1st. So if you take a look at the scheduled rents for schedule one, schedule six and schedule nine, they've all gone up from July 1st, 2024 to July 1st, 2025.
You're saying income increased like the max rent increase that you can get for moderate and that you can get for low income on each schedule. Right. They all went up.
I just found that out yesterday when I was looking at a deal. And that probably does I get, uh, I guess refreshed every year. Like it comes out from HUD or something like that.
I think so. I think every year it gets, it gets refreshed. It gets refreshed based on incomes.
Nice. Also, you, if you partner with a nonprofit, you can get a tax exemption anywhere from a full tax abatement to 80% which is significant. Yeah, for sure.
(09:15) Financing Nuances for ED1 Projects
And then also you don't need to build parking. So your cost is lower. So not only is your income higher, your expense is lower, your cost is also lower.
So your return on cost is significantly higher on an ed one deal than a market rate deal. I think that's the main reason for the shift. Yeah.
And I guess a couple of factors there. If you're capped on rents, then maybe you can still get those rents without building parking. Even if it was, um, someone who, you know, like whatever market is, I think some of the ways we look at those deals is like, what's the rental pullback if you were to have that unit as fully market rate versus affordable.
Yeah. And I think a unit, a smaller unit, you know, as more density means smaller units, right? More density. So a smaller studio with no parking, probably less for much less, but that's max rent.
So the rental pullback is less. So I think those deals make a pencil and you're seeing a flood of market rate developers coming into this space. I think, listen, I think there's mixed reviews right now with LA, right? Of like, why are we building all these tiny studios in LA? I do also think putting incentives for private developers to solve the housing crisis, like I think this could be good.
So I know there's, I know it's polarizing, right? Some people are just like, this is ruining LA. Some other people are saying this is actually solving the housing crisis. So I don't know.
What are you seeing from sponsors? I think it's, I think it's could help solve the housing crisis and it puts more money in the developer's pocket. Yeah. So I think it's a win-win for both.
Yeah. I think, I think it's been successful. I think that the ADU initiative, I think those are, I think ADU has been huge.
I like these structures where LA is using private developers to solve the housing crisis, like privatize it. You can't have governments trying to build this housing themselves. There was that article, I think that they were, there was one affordable deal that took cost like a million dollars a unit to build or something.
It's like, right. I don't even think 10,000 Santa Monica cost a million a unit to build, you know what I mean? So that's just not the answer. That's not going to get it done.
And I think some of these initiatives that you're, you're financing now are doing it. Are you getting also a creative financing because it's like mission driven or, or things like that? Like, do you get better financing from that? So yes. It depends how motivated the lender is.
I mean, there are some lenders that have CRA credits. So automatically if you build, so like if you build in an affordable area or like an opportunity zone area, then a lender can offer a lower rate for conventional financing. And then for construction, they have CRA credits like this deal that I just signed up.
I was able to push the lender from 70% of cost to 75% of cost. The borrower was like, Hey, maybe let's go private money. And I was like, wait, hold on, let's, let's try and push the leverage here.
So I was able to push the lender to 75% of cost and he barely has to bring any equity into the deal that he already has. Yeah. And I guess by equity in the deal, this was to go vertical, right? And so he had his pre-dev costs, his land basis, and it's like, okay, you want to go vertical? We'll give you the loan to fund all construction.
Don't put, bring any more money to the table. Yeah. He owns the land free and clear.
He paid for the most of the soft costs. So he has that 25%. I mean, that sounds like ideal, right? For a, for a developer, especially in this time.
Yeah, exactly. And actually for that deal, there is parking. So the draw.
Yeah. So the drawback. He doesn't need to build it, but he built it.
Yeah. So the drawback of ED1 in terms of getting financing is the no parking. A lot of lenders will pass on a deal because they're like, oh, there's no parking.
Oh, wow. But I always tell them the target market, most of them don't drive cars. So like for these ED1 development projects that are already done, let's say you have a 50 unit apartment building, 25 of the spaces aren't going to be taken or 50% of the spaces aren't going to be taken.
They're going to be empty. So I always try and push that to the lender. Explain that to the lender.
Yeah. By the way, that's, that's like case in point, a reason why like a developer needs someone like you, like a loan broker to like understand the minutia of like, okay, maybe the city doesn't require it, but if you want financing, you might need some parking or it doesn't, maybe it doesn't need to be one to one, but like you need something like that. And that also inhibits what type of lenders are going to lend on your project or not.
If you want this type of rate, you might need to build parking, but it helps with your financing. It helps with the sellability. So like that's why they, you know, people need people like you.
Yeah, I appreciate that. And then another drawback is the unit size, like you were saying. So the deal that I closed a couple of months ago, I think the average square footage was like 250.
Oh my God. Like it was really small. Oh my God.
And the lender came in and said, okay, we'll give you 75% of cost. And I was like, okay, great. And then like a week later, they called me back and they're like, actually, we looked at the deal, you know, they actually passed on it.
I kind of went a little crazy on them. And then they came back to me like an hour later and they're like, okay, we'll come back. We'll, we'll do it at 65% of cost.
Don't take no for an answer, don't take no for an answer. Because I pushed, I pushed the bar word to that, to that lender. Cause they're like, we really want to do this deal.
And they're like, actually, we're passing on it. And I was like, no, you're not. Exactly.
So we got them to 65% of cost and we were able to close that deal.
(11:55) Creative Takeout Loan Strategies
Okay, great. And then maybe on, you know, it sounds like you're still busy on construction, which is great, but I'm sure you're also very busy on takeout loans.
Yeah. Especially since you probably originate a lot of construction loans and these developers need to get out. So what are some creative financing structures that you're able to take out these loans? I feel like they're solving, at least from what I saw, pre-rate hike, they were solving at that point in the low fives yield on costs to, to get a project.
So even if you hit your rents, which maybe some people didn't, maybe they were over budget, a yield on costs of five and a quarter, probably a debt yield in, I don't know, a little above that sixes or something. Like you can't take that out with perm financing, right? So like you got to have some type of slog in between that's going to take you out. So like, what, what are you, what are you getting creative with to kind of solve that issue? Yeah.
And going back to return on costs, like you were saying, now the deals need to be at least like six and a quarter. So yes, before it was five and a quarter and now there needs to be a six in front of it to, to go, to go vertical, to go vertical. Yeah.
So I guess the question is like the guys who were solving five and a quarter and lenders are like, all right, yeah. Five and a quarter. I'll, I'll lend on that all day.
Now what do they do? Yeah. So I encourage them to take as many extensions as possible. Yeah.
That's number one. Even if they're not in the docks, just like extend it out as much as possible. Pretend and extend.
Right. Exactly. Um, but rates have been coming down a little bit as we were discussing earlier.
So I've been getting short term financing for a lot of my clients, three year fixed, call it, um, like right now I'm putting out a term sheet at 5.62%. Uh, the prepayment penalty is pretty good for, for, uh, like, is that bridge basically? Or no, no, it's conventional financing. Yeah. Three year fixed and the prepayment penalties only for two years.
So it's a two one and then it's open the third year. Oh, great. Yeah.
And, uh, if the LTV is around 60%, we can even get them a year of IO. So I've done a few deals this year where we took the borrower out of their construction debt with that program. And they believe that rates will come down in a year or two years from now.
So then we'll be able to refinance that with no penalty in 24 months from now. Yeah. And even if rates don't come down, you'll get some rent growth probably.
Right. It's like one or the other. Like you, you have time to at least get some, get the NOI seasoned a bit.
Maybe not for a brand new building, but yeah, maybe, maybe for just the typical kind of refinance or even for a purchase. Yeah. Yes.
Yeah. I mean, I guess maybe in LA it's different, but you know, there was a lot delivered, uh, this year, maybe last year. And I'm sure that new developer is giving concessions, maybe those concessions burned off because no one's building today.
Yeah. So it's like at least some, at least listen, any runway is good runway, whether it's rates to be lowered. But even if rates don't get lowered, which I think the sentiment right now is like, maybe they're not going to get like super lowered, but there'll be like a little bit of rate cuts here and there, but like you can season the NOI.
You could season the income. You can kind of grow your way out of it a little bit. So for sure, that's kind of like the outlook we see right now.
It's like, we're not banking on rents on, on interest rates to get cut, but we need the runway for other reasons. Yeah, for sure. But I think, you know, by the end of the year, hopefully there'll be two more rate cuts.
You know, last year there were three rate cuts of a hundred basis points combined. So hopefully the first rate cut will be in September and then maybe one more either in November or December. Yeah.
(14:35) Macro Outlook & Anticipated Rate Cuts
It's, uh, I guess we'll move to macro a little bit. I think I was looking at poly market last night and it, the September rate cut chances jumped now 25 bps is like 95%. Oh, amazing.
So that's great. Amazing. I thought it was like 65%.
Yeah. Yeah. So amazing.
So Max, Max, I called this earlier in the pod, um, and it was like, we're going to get a football season rate cut. And I think that's exactly what's happening. Football season rate cut.
I like that. So I think there's sentiment there. We had a bond rally recently.
Yeah. Um, I'm sure that's just opening up a lot of doors for you. How, how does like rate cuts or this type of dynamic help your business? Yeah.
I mean, it helps in a variety of different ways, especially right now, considering the fact that the last few years, you know, rates have been so high. So like, it's funny, like it's all relative, right? So like a few years ago, if I offered a client a rate of three and a half percent, they would argue with me because they're like, wait, I thought you can get me a rate of 3.1 or 3.2. Uh, but now if I'm calling, I just had a call with a client earlier today. He only wants 50% LTV.
It's just a rate and term. Okay. So I said that the rate I can get you is 5.52%. And he's like, Oh my God, give me the term sheet right now.
And it's 200 bases points higher than a few years ago where people would be complaining. Yeah. So it's all relative, but, um, for the same asset.
Exactly. I would say that in 2026, it's going to be a big year. That's that, that's what I think after a couple of rate cuts at the beginning, at the end of this year, hopefully, and then more rate cuts in 2026, uh, America is turning 250 years old next year.
Yeah. World's cup is coming to America. I think, um, a lot of people are going to be excited for next, for next year.
I think it's going to be a big year in 2026. Yeah. I mean, I think you're already seeing it now.
Um, we're actively raising on a few deals on the tri-on side and we were actively raising for deals Q1. The Q1 interest and even Q2, it was very sluggish, tough. I don't have equity, I have pref, you know, those conversations.
Yeah. I think now that there's anticipation of rate cuts, I think margins are a little bit lower on the credit side and you're starting to see some of that capital coming to the equity side. Yeah.
Um, and then when margins are also lower on the credit side, it also helps your business because it's a race to the bottom. Right. And you're seeing that now in terms of you get lower spreads, you get more competitive rates.
And if you're not in the weeds like you are, you won't see like what the best program is. And I think in this environment where it's kind of shifting, you want the right credit program. And then you're also seeing the liquidity come into equity to catch the rent growth, catch the cap rate compression, things like that.
It's all about access to capital. And, you know, the crazy thing is, is that not only did interest rates go up over the last few years, but there are so many lenders who just said, Hey, we're not lending right now. And it's been like that.
One of my go-to lenders in 2021 or maybe 2022, they called me and they said, sorry, Brian, we're not, we're not lending anymore. Still to this day, they're not lending. They're still on the sidelines.
(16:45) Banks vs. Private Credit
It's crazy. Is this like a bank maybe? Yeah, it's a bank. I feel like the banks are the ones that are not, like they're, they have regulatory pressures.
Actually, the previous potter a couple of pots ago was Andrew Kwok. And we were kind of talking about the regulations and as a bank, you're just like playing a game with your, you're going to war with a one hand behind your tied behind your back. Like you're, you're handicapped as a bank and you're seeing private credit just explode right now where you're, and I think that's probably where you're doing the majority of your, of your originations, correct me if I'm wrong, but I just feel like the banks are just a little bit handicapped.
Yeah, it's mainly banks, but yeah, definitely some from, from debt funds, even private money. I just, I just closed the deal a week ago with a private money lender. We actually closed it in like a week.
Um, and the rate was 10 and a half percent. Um, and it was a construction completion loan. And I think because it's actually funny, cause I think interest, because interest rates are higher and because you can get more leverage by paying a little bit of a higher rate, they're okay with that because of the difference between eight and a half percent and 10 and a half percent or, you know, call it seven and a half percent or nine and a half percent.
(19:05) Modular Construction & Non-Recourse Challenges
Isn't that crazy? I just had a call with a client last night with one of my colleagues. I convoy, the guy wants a ground up construction loan. He wants non-recourse and it's also modular, pretty difficult.
So I told him if you want non-recourse, we got to go private, especially if it's modular. Yeah. So modular gives it a little bit of like a premium and spread.
Like you have to pay more cost of capital for that because it's like lower quality construction. So you can get bank financing for modular, but because he wants non-recourse, we kind of have to, we have to go dead fund. It's like a combination of the whole thing.
Um, things will do it, but they need recourse. Got it. Okay.
They definitely need recourse, but a lot of lenders will automatically just pass on it because it is modular. So if you also want non-recourse on top of it, it makes it much more difficult. Yeah.
So I told him, you know, so for plus 500 to 600, you know, are you okay with that? And he kind of thought about it over the phone and he's like, well, what's bank financing? I explained that to him and he's like, okay. So it's like a 200 basis points difference. And I'm like, yeah, but you know, we're going to get you 75% of costs.
And he was like, okay. He's like, let me talk to my partner. I'll get back to you.
But he seemed like he was okay with that. Right. Where before, if we're getting, you know, if we're going to first republic and we're getting construction financing at 3.9%, literally three, I was closing deals at 3.9% for ground up construction financing fixed.
With the mini perm, right? Yeah. With the mini perm. That mini perm is probably so nice for people right now coming out of that construction.
Exactly. That was a great program. Amazing.
Yeah. Amazing. But at the time it was much harder to tell somebody, Hey, get something at eight, 9% than 4%.
They're like, why would I pay double? Right, right.
(21:00) What Lenders Want from Borrowers
Okay. So I guess on the development side, your clients are doing a lot of this affordable.
They're taking advantage of this in LA. Yeah. Um, on the perm side, you're able to get creative to kind of fill the gap.
Um, I guess in general, what, uh, from your clients are you looking for in order to make your job a little easier in getting them, you know, like what is, um, maybe advice for clients and what you're seeing out there in this time where it's really tough to get financing? Like, what are you looking for from your clients? Well, yeah, the number one thing is I want them to have experience. Obviously if they don't have experience, that's okay. We can still get the deal done.
It's easier when the client does have experience. The two most important things, especially for ground up construction financing is experience. Yeah.
Have they developed projects in the past? And also liquidity. If they're able to fill the gaps in case there are any shortfalls or anything like that, those are the first, anytime I pick up the phone and I call a construction and they go, what's his level of experience? Is this his first project? Or has he, has he built before? I'm like, well, it's first project. Okay.
Bye. So, so let me, let me stop you there because listen, experience that's, that's hard to do if you don't have it, then what do you do? So I've seen, yeah. And you're probably going to say like, I've seen some CoGP programmatic ventures where groups are leveraging their experience and liquidity to help these emerging developers get the financing and equity they need.
So like, are you working on any, any of that? You know, that's, that's more for larger deals. Yeah. But yes, I have worked on stuff like that in the past.
Um, in terms of the stuff that I work on, let's say that the construction owners, I know between 10 to 15 or even $20 million, I always explain to them. You need to, you need to hire a good GC. The GC needs to have this level of experience where they've done this project a bunch of times and they know exactly what they're doing.
And number two, do you guys have enough liquidity? If they have enough liquidity and they hire a good GC and they have some level of development experience, like maybe they've even built single family homes in the past versus, you know, the 40 unit development project that they're asking for, then we can possibly get it done. Yeah. Cause you check one of the boxes with liquidity and then GC experiences can be good enough in a sense.
Yeah, exactly. If it's a really good GC. Yeah, that makes sense.
That makes sense. So I guess, is it now you're saying a pretty big dislocation if you just have zero experience, like you're not going to get any financing or is there still stuff out there? Yeah, for construction, it definitely makes it tougher. But like we talked about, there are ways to get over those hurdles.
When it comes to conventional financing, if you don't have experience, as long as you hire a management company and as long as you have a decent level of liquidity, you know, we can get you a conventional loan that you'll be happy with. Yeah, makes sense. Makes sense.
(23:25) Work Ethic & Career Grit
One of the things I wanted to talk about, which we were talking about earlier, is just like your work ethic, you know? Like I would come sometimes on Saturdays and you're there every Saturday grinding. Are you still grinding? Like, are you still grinding like that? I am. I actually go, I actually go every Sunday now instead of Saturday because I'm trying not to work on Shabbat.
Yeah, that makes sense. So I switched it up. Yeah, you gotta have, yeah, exactly.
You gotta have better luck. So what, um, what makes you have that drive? You know, that's not an easy thing to do. And I know it's, uh, especially frustrating when you're in a tough environment where maybe you're not getting instant gratification for your hard work, but you know, look where you are today and you're super successful.
And so I think the audience wants to also hear, what's your work ethic? What's your motivation? Like, how, how are you able to keep that consistency throughout your career? Yeah, I think it just came from the, my past experiences. Um, my first job out of college was at George Smith Partners. I remember I was interning.
You were interning there. Yeah, that was great. That was a, that was a fun summer when you were there.
That was very fun. I was going through a breakup. You were going through a breakup.
You're, you know, giving me pep talk. I learned, you know, shout out to Steve Stein. He was like a great mentor for me.
And that was, that was a great experience for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
So I worked at GSP. Um, I worked, uh, hard, but not as hard as I should have. Um, ended up getting let go at GSP, which, uh, I, I deserved it.
Um, left GSP, uh, went to a company called CGI strategies, worked there for like a few months. They were like, we don't need you anymore. I was like, okay, fine.
And when I worked at Marcus and Milla chap, uh, I worked in the capital markets group for about a year and I worked there as an analyst and they said, Hey, you know, I don't want you to be an analyst anymore. We need you to go be a broker. Like you got to pick up the phone and start calling.
Revenue generating. Yeah. So I started doing that.
I started picking up the phone and calling and I was working really hard, like really hard, like there every weekend. And somehow I still got fired after working there for 10 months with this guy. Um, I was really upset.
I was really frustrated. I remember going into the like managing director's office and literally I was crying to him because I was like, I just don't understand like how, how can I get fired when I work this hard? So I left, I picked up my stuff and I said, wherever I go next, it doesn't matter. I have to be successful.
I think I was 26 years old at the time. And I said, just no matter what it does, I have to, I have this, this needs to get done. Yeah.
So I remember like a week later I met up with Mitch, Mitch Maskover, the president of Conti. Yes. And he's like, exactly.
And try on. And he's like, we'd love to have you. I said, okay, great.
Um, I joined the company at the end of 2017, uh, 2018, I worked every single day, every Saturday, except for the last two Saturdays of the year, I literally worked 50 straight weekends in a row. Didn't take one vacation. Didn't take any time off in 2019.
I worked again, every single weekend, worked very hard during the week, picked up the phone, kept calling, calling, calling as much as I possibly could. Besides one vacation that I took in the summer, worked every weekend as well. And by the end of 2019, that's when I started closing deals and I started making some money.
And I was like, wow, like this is, this is happening. Yeah. It took time to like season like that for that work to pay off.
Right. It probably took about a year or so or two years. It took about 18 months for it to, so I could start.
I remember like the summer of 2019 is when I started seeing it like pay off and I started closing deals. And then I started closing bigger deals and I started being like, wow, this is possible. Yeah.
(29:05) Broker Life Reality Check
Listen, like this doesn't get talked about as like a broker where they see like a broker, just like closing deals, Traded LA, this, that. And it's like, man, like I want to be a broker, but like no one sees the Saturdays, the Sundays that you put in that work and you're cracking leads. And, um, it takes real grit to be successful.
Yeah, for sure. And you, you got to pick up the phone, you got to pick up the phone and you got to call and call and call. Um, and you got to touch as many, uh, bodies as possible by, by marketing yourself, posting on LinkedIn, posting on Traded LA.
Um, sending email blasts. That's, that's key too. Like you, you can't just do it behind a desk either.
Like, you know, you're grinding on Saturdays, but that's also to free up your time during the week to do revenue generating business on normal business hours. Like you can't be cracking leads from nine to five on a Monday to Friday. Like that's when you got to call and that's when you got to meet, that's when you got to see people and then let them enjoy their Saturdays and Sundays.
You're grinding behind a desk, you know, I'm sure you're not making too many calls on a Friday, on Saturday, Sunday, unless, unless you're a sicko, which I think you are. No, I don't do that anymore. I think I did like early on and I was like, okay, maybe I shouldn't do that anymore.
Yeah. But, um, no, I remember, I remember sharing a wall with you and I would come in, you're already in, I'd leave, you know, get my few hours in. Cause I was, you know, I was like same mentality, but I mean, I'm like, man, Brian's just not leaving this office.
Like that's crazy. I was full commission. I still am full commission, but that's, yeah, that's, yeah, that's what it takes.
(31:25) Leveraging Technology & AI
So I guess, um, one of the things I actually wanted to ask you too, is like, you know, in the weekends you were cracking leads, are you embracing AI at all to help you with some of that? Like how, how have you been leveraging tools and technology to kind of help you be more efficient in your work and your process? Yeah, that's a good question. And that's something that I probably need to start doing.
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