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Dentists, Puns, and Money is a podcast focused on two things: The financial topics relevant to dentists leaving clinical practice and the stories and lessons of dentists who have already done so.
1. The stories of dentists who have transitioned from full-time clinical dentistry.
2. The financial topics that are relevant for dentists making that transition.
If you’re a dentist thinking about your exit from clinical, and you’d like to learn from the experiences of other dentists who have made that transition, be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast app.
Host Shawn Terrell also dives deep into the many financial components of exiting dentistry, including tax reduction strategies and how to live off your assets.
And, we try to keep it light by mixing in a bad joke… or two.
Please note: Dentists, Puns, and Money was previously known as The Practice Growth Podcast until March 2022.
Dentists, puns and money – ID 4 Transcription
Keywords: dentists, seminars, dentistry, practice, patient, people, life, year, trench, hire, startup, learn, marketing, day, offer, case, injury, home, teach, business processes.
Welcome to dentists, puns and money on your host Shawn Terrell. My guest on today's episode is Dr. Scott Luene. A devastating back injury left Dr. Scott unable to practice very early in his career, and that forced him into a CEO role and the owner of multiple dental practices. Dr. Scott use the lessons learned to found breakaway seminars and dental wail and his current mission is to teach dentists how to reach $1 million of annual take home pay. We dive into that topic plus much more. As a reminder, our affiliated firm dentist Exit Planning helps dentists nearing clinical retirement, reduce their lifetime tax bill and replace their practice. Income so they don't have to compromise on the lifestyle they've come to love. If you are interested in financial guidance on your exit from dentistry, you can schedule an initial consultation with us using our website, which is dentists exit.com And with that introduction, I hope you enjoy my conversation with Dr. Scott Luene. All right, Dr. Scott Luene, welcome to dentists, puns and money. I am excited to hear your story. Thank you for joining
us. Thank you for inviting me. I can't wait.
So my favorite place to get started is just to give the audience a little bit of context about who you are and sort of your career in the dental industry. Could you share sort of the Reader's Digest version of the arc of of your dental career to
this point? Sure. I started as a dentist that opens an incredibly fast growing startup. And very quickly I had a back injury and was put into a wheelchair off and on for 11 years. That led me to go from dentists to entrepreneur, owning multiple practices, selling them, opening and owning more selling more and then that led me to becoming a service provider of other dentists.
of those transitions for you. Tell us a little bit about how the injury occurred. And you said it was very early in your career. And I'm guessing that's someone that just opened a practice relatively little a few years ago or whatever the timeline was, and then had a lot of student loans, I'm guessing hanging over their head. That had to be a scary time for you to try to figure things out.
I graduated 2005 with student debt. I took out a startup loan, I opened a startup practice and we're 350 to 400 new patients every single month. So it was a very, very successful practice where everything was breaking because a time I didn't know how to run great business processes. I don't know I didn't know how to manage a team. Well, I didn't know how well we're auditing and case acceptance and phones and insurance. So 250 400 patients every month was was a challenge and I had to become very innovative. To learn how to process that many patients with great care and be very profitable. In the middle of learning all of that. I sustained a back injury free soccer accident, I broke my back in four places. I was not paralyzed thank God but all the nerves in which my lower body were completely crushed. And Sullivan years I struggled to walk into stand into I couldn't be a dentist. Not until six years ago or so. Did I have pretty risky invasive surgery. That worked and so today, no one would know by looking at me. You know what, I haven't gone back and then I decided I liked not being handcuffed to the record schedule every day. And I've since kind of done really big things and had huge failures and huge successes and I look back and I've really understood a lot now about the business side of how to just build one successful business with an owner dentists but how to replicate that nationwide. Were just about any dentist is successful, and that's where I have a lot of fun helping other dentists. So after that injury,
what did you do to get dentists into your practice seeing patients so the so all the momentum that you would create with your startup could continue?
Well, by month six, I associate dentists because my patient was so high because I stepped back because I couldn't be a dentist full time. And last fall I had three associate dentists and looking back of course I didn't know how to manage sociate this I just graduated dental school myself, but you had a couple of things back then that are needed to have associate dentist. We had high patient flow had at the time pretty good business processes. We're learning very quickly how to do things well. And, you know, with our associates making so much money because of the patient flow and because of this process, we ended up having an easier time retaining them. And today when I look at practices that have associated with obviously, what associate gets paid is part of the formula of finding and retaining a good dentist. So early on for luck, maybe for some work, we had a few things are working well that enabled us to by year three, have 10 associate dentists and 85 employees and we're doing about 9 million or so in collections. Year three across three brand new locations. How did you attract so many new patients
so quickly at that time, and I'm guessing you've continued to try to replicate that formula throughout your time since then?
Yeah, you know, what worked back then is different now, but you can talk about principles of it are kind of multiple, multiple layers here. You've got to have a proper marketing campaign that is sending the right message to the right person at the right time. message can be sent via direct mail can be sent via Google paid ads, it can be sent an Instagram ad but you have to have the right message the right people at the right time. And when they respond to that message, they have to either land on a very intelligent landing page or they have to of course hopefully call when you handle that lead the phone is incredibly important. You can answer the phone. It's incredibly important to say the right thing and that the practice is policies that have lowered barriers to entry. Those are three little chapters right there, you know, say the right thing, answer the phone and have lower barriers to entry. If they get to a landing page, that landing page has to be designed in a way where number one, they are tempted to click the call or number two, or trading their email address for some valuable content that we can utilize their email address or nurture that email address through an additional layer of marketing marketing campaign. And all of that is on the assumption what marketing is actually worth marketing. So is my practice worse marketing? Does it look marketable, that have marketable attributes for convenience and for patient experience? Do I have a marketable reputation? There's a lot of layers to this, but like anything in life, be successful, it it takes hard work doing simple things. So all of these things are simple. There's a lot of them that we need to do. And luckily, you know, they're pretty darn straightforward to do the one on one by one and when we have those things set up properly, as the patient flow just comes in. It does and it's so interesting what you
just explained because I was thinking of myself a lot when you were telling the story and that's a lot of the principles you were laying out are probably applicable to a lot of other service based businesses that are out there. With me just briefly to touch on it like I'm a financial advisor by trade, but I've had to learn way more about marketing than I ever thought I would have to learn how to attract and convert new potential clients and it sounds like you're talking about the same thing. With with patients dentistry.
And you could add a layer of complexity to it or you know, a patient was looking for an implant. So there's a whole nother set of strategies toward very specific dental seeking patient versus the the patient just just needs a family dentists and as a dentist, you know, I teach a lot about how to take home a million dollars take home pay simple, one of those business models, results in a soldier's taking home really not has to do with supplementing a very lazy schedule, a $4,000 case. A $4,000 case can be an orthotic case case the bad knee can be a lot of things and to get those procedures it does take some work on the marketing side some intelligent work, marketing side, understanding the ins and outs marketing today is one of the things needed to go from a dentist that's just busy, busy, busy squeezing more and more and running faster spinning their wheels, versus a dentist's that on the outside seems kind of relaxed and lazy. But when you really look at what they're doing, it's incredibly profitable. Want to go a little deeper?
There you see a $4,000 case is that per day per week, how are you finding those metrics?
Sure. Well, there's three core business models I teach on how to take home at least a million dollars every year. First business model says your solo dentists work a good amount so part time schedule five days a week, and you collect $2 million as a practice, collect $2 million a year. You've got to now kind of reverse engineer that and figure out okay, well what is $2 million a year what is that? For example? A month that's 165,000 per month? Is that per day? That's at 250 a day? Well, how can I call it at $250 It's working like five or six hours a day? Well, a third of that comes from hygiene that's 2750 hygiene. That's my average hygienist just 2600 a day. So 2750 could be one hygienist or can be two less productive hygienist that just leaves 5500 a day for the doctor. How do you do 5500 Every day is the dentist lazy with a $4,000 case a day just 1500 on top of its crown and a couple of minutes.
level, and I think you threw out their take home of a million dollars per year. I think that number is going to seem really really high or even unreachable to maybe a lot of the dentists saying But you broke it down really good and that is I guess at a at a really high level what you teach with your breakaway seminars for different types of dentists and in different part
You know, I've got I offer different types of seminars. Each seminar is like 400 pages long a ton of content. Yes, I teach how to get to that number, but getting that number involves a lot of business processes. So my seminars are really around the business process. What should be said on the phone, for example, that more patients actually scheduled to talk to him, or what should the format of the financial form look like? Because that impacts how many patients actually say yes, or what should the payment options mean? How can you hold everyone accountable to doing their job, like, all of those things that we find in the trenches of running a dental practice, have best practices, my seminars, teach those best practices, but when you kind of pull yourself out of the trench, you will get a whole battlefield. Get started to strategize. All right. If I do these best practices, can I go down a path brings me a million dollars take home pay every year? Where can I go down a path that says making incredibly good money only working two days a week? Or maybe it's a path that says you want I want to work five days a week, I want 10 locations, but all of those pads rely on being able to do what's needed in the trench? Well, and unfortunately for a lot of entrepreneurial dentists just do what they know they do what they feel. Don't understand. It's not exactly the best way it works, but it doesn't work great. To get success. They just take what's barely kind of working and just go faster with it. white knuckle it until the bleed just stretch their time out until they have life compromises and it seems like they just get bigger, bigger and maybe don't even make that much more money. And that is a difficult place to be but is where a lot of dentists are today. So in order to get a new better pitcher out of this, to me it seems like it would start or even dive into the nuts and bolts of things have some intentionality behind what do you want your practice and
what do you want your life to look like? Is that where you guys start with people and how do you help pull that out of dentists that are hearing some of this for the first time?
Yeah, I see this. Every now and then you don't want to be caught being really good at playing the wrong game. So and you know, that goes That's not just dentistry, and this is us life. A lot of us maybe at some point in our lives, ask ourselves What the hell are we doing? So we've gotten really good in our career and really good at we're doing but we're not actually doing what we want. So in business and in dentistry, we have to be careful that we're not good at doing the wrong thing. So starting out or asking yourself every now and then, what is my three year old 10 year goal? And I rewind back to what that would mean for the next three months to a year. That's a very healthy process to go through. And unfortunately though, you don't know what's possible. You don't know how colorful that goal can be. But it took forever people just assumed you could never run a mile under four minutes, or ever. It was impossible. Until someone did it. Very quickly. After one person did it a ton of people did it. Full assumed as a solo dentist in one location. Can't take home a million dollars take home pay. I'm telling you right now there's a ton of people doing it. We nearly everyone connected to every month doesn't. And so it's very possible and it doesn't mean crushing yourself. Then these people have some of those balanced lives I see. Because when you take home a million dollars every year, who have a wealth choice, you don't have to work as much you don't have to compromise life just for cutting yet another damn tooth. That's the funny thing about wealth is people without well sometimes assume it takes stretching yourself thin and compromising yourself to get it actually happens. As you get wealth you make less compromises to yourself. At least if you do the right thing. You make less compromise yourself and you end up becoming very wealthy with a very healthy life. So it's not what I said it's not complicated producing at $250 a day with one Dennis does not have to be complicated. It does mean you have to know how to market you have to know how to handle phones. You have to know how to get case except you have to be able to diagnose it. You have to be able to submit claims. There's a lot of things you have to be able to do. We don't have to do any of them perfect. You just have to do them good enough. And it's a process. getting healthy isn't done overnight. Just the process of doing something small and simple every day, working out 20 minutes every day changes your life. 10 years from now. Eating right for breakfast for right for lunch. It's the wrong changes your life 10 years from now and you know as a financial advisor, doing the right thing the right habit every day we can month financially small easy thing changes your life 10 years from now. Luckily it doesn't take 10 years take home a million dollars. It doesn't mean our average startup practice for example, average startup practice. The third year open from scratch collect 1.9 million that dentists takes home or 800 grand a year. Our average loan that's year three open from scratch. Doesn't have to take 10 years but it for sure isn't done overnight. Oh interesting. Some of the things
you just hit on there and what jumped out to me was what you're really talking about I heard was compounding everything in life. I've found countdowns both good and bad good habits compound and bad habits compound. You see the results of that down the road but it's but it starts with really good habits and figuring things out and how to do things. Small right things along the way.
So the time for the transformation was interesting to
me to go from a scratch startup practice to I think you said 1.9 A lot of times in just a few years. What is the transformation like for a lot of practices that are in existence to begin with or that have a group practice? What is the transformation that you are trying to help people find their
ever was at a different level. Dentists are at their dream level they're collecting $2 million a year. They're really looking to simplify and make things organized. Maybe take less time. Some dentists are not even happy 2 million a year. Once in locations, they weren't 20 million a year. And some dentists are really happy just collecting 800 grand, who know they're all on a different level. They all have different goals but what they all share is that they have struggles. They struggle sometimes day to day. They sometimes struggle because they don't know the best way of doing something. Sometimes they struggle because they don't even know what they should want. They don't even know where to start. They just kind of have this practice and the practices controlling them. They don't know how to get out of it but they know they want to get out and what I find is that when you learn best practices on how to operate, the trench changes what you know as being possible from a large strategy. Of course, when you understand what's possible on the large strategy might change what you prioritize with rich so it's important to be educated. It's important to know what we're doing well and what we're not what we can do better why we white once you might why we might not all starts with knowledge. I wish though I wish knowledge was enough. It's not just the beginning. Once we have a knowledge we actually have to do something with it. And that is where it gets tough. Because when we implement something good and new sometimes we don't get this major win this this you know fireworks going off on our financial statements saying wow, we did good, sometimes implementing something good. It was very similar to before we implemented it. See the effect for a while. Sometimes implementing something good is a huge big deal immediately. But for whatever reason in our life, we're emotionally stretch or thin. We don't feel like we have the space time we just don't get it done. We just deal with all the loud stuff day to day. We never deal with the big important stuff. So I think it starts with learning how once we learn how we need the drive motivation, accountability, to then do what's best for my life. I get that accountability. By hiring people I surround myself I create an environment around me has to do it. Like I have a personal trainer for 11 He's the cutest sweetest woman until I get to the gym and she screams at me and I need her make me work out and be healthy without her. I just would not do it. That's the kind of person I am. I'm not the guy that worked with wakes up at five in the morning to go run and do rows and legs. That's not me. And a lot of us benefit from surrounding ourselves with people that help us grow, whether they're hired or whether they're friends and colleagues or some sort of study group need to be surrounded by people that are on that same journey as us so that it gives us more unspoken accountability to do the right thing. Building in the systems that
are going to help someone be as successful as possible in whatever area they're talking about.
And successful entrepreneur doesn't learn from other people. They do everything on their own, and they try to figure it out. You get almost gospel when you've learned from other people, you start getting the shortcuts the learning gives you but you're still doing it all on your own. Trying to figure it all out. You're trying to figure out how you can do the right and you can even more successfully start hiring other people to help you do the right. You get the most successful many times when you have other people do it with you. Fortunately, the typical Dennis is right on the bottom there. They're just gonna do it their way. They're going to try to make it work try to figure it out. Maybe listen to every now and then. The most successful companies go hire the rockstars do it with them. And when we're talking about the difference between taking home 160 grand a year versus 360 versus 1 million, it might make sense to spend a little bit time and money learning how to run a practice in a different way might make sense to surround yourself with other people and even hire people to help you. We dentists are so tired and so busy, handcuffed to our practice. We fail to stick our hand on the practice and understand where the light really shining from where we should be going to and it's a sad part of being a dentist and most of us when we die our tombstone should just say dentists because that's all we did in life. And it's kind of like kinda like the worst employee you can hire. The one that's barely good enough to not fire worst business we can have the worst career we can have is the one that's barely good enough to not quit. And I think a lot of us in dentistry have that. What I hope is that dentists that listen to this podcast and other podcasts at some point off their apps that offer the seeds are sitting in right now. Do something new and different, leads them toward the new level of success and a new level of freedom. Right. It's so interesting some of the things that you mentioned that
keep dentists from doing that and I think a problem too is this. There's so many offers. I get dentists all the time for everything that it just becomes probably noise at some point it's hard to differentiate, which offers which seminars which CPE are going to truly move the needle. For dentists it doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter which one here here's the fallacy. We dentists were freaking engineers, the mouth we care about a half a millimeter and we care about that kind of dumb stuff. We hit all these offers all these options. We research we have eight choices here and 10 choices there and what ends up happening is we do nothing, we just pick one model, we will be better off than we were yesterday. Where like the guy that goes in the United school shop wants to taste all 20 flavors is not doing anything. We just offered them vanilla chocolate or vanilla then what he would have had ice cream right. That's the problem. We have. It's not about picking the best one fun. Most of the success comes from just picking one doesn't matter if it's the best. Worst thing you could do is pick none. percent but most of us default to picking none. When we can't figure out which one to pick, no picking none shouldn't be an option to pick one. Find one that you have either you either have some sort of connection with that yeah, that really sounds right to me like that sounds like it fits your life right now. Pick one that you've been recommended to take by someone else. It's been successful or don't you can freakin afford but we shouldn't do it. Nothing we shouldn't do is not good learning or not get some kind of coach or consultant. Keep doing it the same way you've always done Trust me. Trust me. Doing it the way you've always done only faster is just going to give you the same amount of money you have now but where are you out? To get more money and to have more freedom. You have to do something new. You're not going to get that new thing just by waking up from a dream that explained it all to you. You have to go seek it out. So interesting because it reminds me
of something I try to think about a lot too, which is the way you've been doing it is perfectly engineered to get you exactly where you are. And if you don't like exactly where you are, then maybe you need to re engineer how you're doing it. And there's food for thought as I was thinking about that as you were laying some of that out good stuff. I want to make sure that the audience understands the options that are available for the breakaway seminars could you give just like the high level, different type of seminars that you guys offer and who they're for and sort of what that experience looks like over on day to days and kind of what a dentist who attends one of your breakaway seminars will take away from it.
Sure, I mean I I don't want to sound like some friggin sales pitch for seminar. I lead you there.
Do anything
with anyone and you're gonna be better off if what I'm saying speaks to someone and they feel like they want to learn more about we do things in our world. Breakway seminar.com got four events. Got it for startups, called the Advanced Startup seminar. It's two days long. They're all two days long. They're all 400 pages of content. They're all given by me. There's at least 100 things I teach you. There's one other exhausting they are a completely exhausting the center and engaging. It's not going to some yes sales pitch or you know learning just three little things is exhausting among content. Second seminar we get as our business masters course that's really the one feel like everyone should take for reteach the ins and outs of running. Not a good practice, but a great practice all the things in the trench we need to know we've got a seminar on owning multiple locations and having multiple dentists that might apply to some people. We've also got kind of this additional seminar that is for training office managers before courses, give and I spend about half of my working career doing those seminars and we're very proud of them. We feel like they're they're the best in the industry. But you know, of course we do. So, it sounds similar to what I do in that like
the first step is just figuring out where you are and where you're trying to go like me building a plan. But then I also tell people that after I deliver their plan, it's pretty much worthless because it's you know, like the outside conditions are changing what you should do over time so the real value comes in the ongoing iterations and figuring out how to do that as you as you go along. You guys deal with it. Obviously, you're giving people an enormous amount of valuable information in a two day period. But then, for dentists that need ongoing coaching or ongoing guidance is there is that factored in? How does that fit in?
Well, first of all dentistry is not quite like like your side of the world in that the best way to handle a phone call doesn't just suddenly change. The best way to manage a team and ensure that they're doing what they're supposed to do every day doesn't just suddenly change overnight. So the things that we teach on case acceptance and diagnosis, patient flow, marketing, phone, billing, all that stuff. Slowly is adjusted over time, but the foundations of what we teach had been constant to the laws, how to run a successful dental practice. Is that once continued connection with me and my company, as I've recorded them now today, we have a coaching service available that is me one on one. And there's maybe a dozen entrepreneurial dentists that hire me personally as a coach. In 2023. We will be rolling out options for people that want help and support don't necessarily need someone like me one on one with them. So we will have kind of a middle option available. I honestly I don't I don't feel like anyone should hire us for coaching until they've been to our seminar and learned how we run dental practices. And it might be that after this seminar, they don't need much coaching or they may really need it wherever they may realize they don't want to run a practice that way. I don't think it's a good decision to hire us for coaching hire me for coaching. The right step is to come to the business masters course that's that's kind of the first step if anyone had to work with us or understand how we're doing it. We've covered a lot of ground which we bounced around a little bit.
When he's three, we will be rolling out options for people that want help and support. don't necessarily need someone like me one on one with them so we will have kind of a middle option available. I honestly I don't I don't feel like anyone should hire us for coaching. So they've been to our seminar and learned how we run dental practices. It might be that after the seminar, they don't need much coaching or they may really need it wherever they may realize they don't want to run a practice that way. I don't think it's good decision to hire us for coaching hire me for coaching. The right step is to come to the business masters course that's that's kind of the first step if anyone wanted to work with us or understand how we're doing it.
We've covered a lot of ground we bounced around a little bit, Dr. Luna anything that we haven't hit on that you think would be important to mention.
A lot of what's in this way where does take home pay come from this exam. It's true many dentists out there are collecting more, while increasing their expenses. They're adding more hygienist adding more doctors adding more operatories adding, adding adding costs, hoping your results and collections. If we run a really efficient practice, in a smart way, can add collections without adding costs and that's where these huge take home pay numbers come from. If we fail to collect, or excuse me, if we fail to take home a million dollars every year take home pay might accidentally only do 800 grand a year. So like a follow model that maximizes take home pay. Even if we're not the rock star we want to eventually become still better off than we've ever been that is where I feel like our brain should be how can we take home more money? How can we collect more without increasing expenses? So another thing is the fastest way to make more money. The fastest way to make money is to cut the expense not to hope for growth. So in a healthy business, we have found ways to do the same thing with less expenses. Also found ways to buy what we need to buy at lower prices. Right? We found ways to cut expenses because that's the immediate take home pay. Part of our model involves taking a look at that and figuring out how to keep those expenses healthy.
go a little deeper there. How does the dentist lower some of those expenses What are a couple of ways? Yeah, well real quick I could tell you common expenses way too freakin high. Our supplies dental supplies and office supplies combined. Typical practices I see are 8% of collections or more for that category. Our practices are less than 3.8. It's actually our average 2.8% billing practices across multiple states. And we're also connected to a bunch of dentists point 8% REP. And how do you get 3.8% Number one you have to be part of the larger buying group or buying group is called dental whale is DPSS dental purchasing services organization. It's the largest country I believe. So you have to be part of a large buying group because that gives you lower prices. Second, you have to have access to brands you normally don't have access to sample and an A well we have access to brands of gloves and masks from the largest medical suppliers that you can't find those brands in the shines and Patterson's and bancos of the world. All these dentists were struggling to get masks and gloves during COVID We had no problem whatsoever and we're getting cheaper. Finally, besides being part of the group and having access to different brands, you have to have budgetary controls as to enforce the budget. The order goes out unless it's on budget. If it's over budget don't change the order. What helps enforce that budget software. So as part of for example, buying group wherein we have software that scans every order to make sure that budget or the order is on budget also even scans every price to make sure that the price that we were promised is still the freakin price for being billed. enforcing a budget you can do without software you could just do as simple as you don't approve any order over budget. Forcing the budget is a key key component of this. And you know, I don't think most dentists have even ever had a budget which is a sad thing. Can you imagine any successful company operating well without a budget? No. Yet we're that's how we're operating. So that's just one aspect. One example of cutting costs and when you have a million and a half dollar practice, you can cut costs from you know 8% down 4% I mean that's freaking 60 grand a year, right? Profit $60,000 of year this year 60,000 Next year 6000 Next year since you're talking about an immense amount of wealth. That's just one line item on the p&l Really good stuff really good stuff.
The name of the podcast is dentists, ponds, and money.
Would you care to share your favorite dental joke? Oh, I saw on an email that I might have to say a joke. So literally an hour ago, I made one up it's barely funny. Then I also have a second one. That's the saddest joke you've ever heard. Okay. You like both? Which give both All right, so here's the one is barely funny. All right. What do you call an implant dentist? Accidentally SIDS puddle of water? Oh, no. No whop uh, what? As periodontist? Alright, there's one. All right. And now the really sad sad one who in dentistry it's dentists money or more. Doesn't have a degree or treat patients. The damn supply right or not? Well, a lot of supply reps make more money than the dentists they support.
It's time to in that Scott for people that are interested in learning more about breakaway seminars or dental Well, where's the best place to
get more information? Breakaway seminar.com Check it out. Very good.
That is Dr. Scott Luene, dentist and founder of breakaway seminars. Co Founder of Dental Whale, Dr. Scott, thank you for sharing your story, your expertise and for being a guest on dentists ponds and money
shot Thank you for having me and thank you for doing this for all
of us. Thanks for listening and following along are you a dentist nearing your retirement from clinical or have you already hung up your handpiece? Would you like to learn more about ways to reduce your taxes and generate income from your assets in retirement? Our affiliated firm dentist Exit Planning might be able to help you with those two things. Schedule an initial consultation with us on our website. Our web address is dentist exit.com There's no obligation for your initial consultation. Again, schedule that initial consultation at dentist exit.com As for our disclosure, Dentist Exit Planning and Terrell advisors is a registered investment advisor. The information presented should not be interpreted or construed as investment, legal tax financial planning or wealth management advice. It does not substitute for personalized investment or financial planning from dentist Exit Planning or Terrell advisors. This podcast conveys the views and opinions of Shawn Terrell and his guests and the information herein should not be considered a solicitation to engage in a particular investment or financial planning strategy. information presented is for educational purposes only and past performance is not indicative of future results.