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Authentic, Authoritative, Unapologetic ServiceNow commentary by Cory "CJ" Wesley and Robert "The Duke" Fedoruk
CJ: All right, Duke, we live.
What are we talking about today?
Ah, whoa, we mixed it up!
Duke: Don't say we never
do anything for you!
I think , we said the title of this one
is going to be it, let's just record.
CJ: Yeah, there we go.
Like, today is, it, let's just record.
So, we're coming to you live,
and we're just recording.
We'll see how this thing turns out.
Let's see
Duke: You're trapping us for 30 minutes!
Strap in!
CJ: where this thing goes.
It's been a minute.
Duke: Okay, you don't
really grinds my gears
CJ: What's that, Duke?
Duke: There's this new thing in
recruiting I'm not sure if it's new
but it feels new can't remember the
last time I saw a Recruiting invite
like a job invite that included the
compensation range what up with that?
CJ: It's so funny too, because states
are literally passing laws that
require you to disclose compensation.
And I agree.
, I'm not even getting job
descriptions with them either.
But sometimes I'm just getting
a, Hey, are you available?
And, you know, but I mean, at
the very least though, right?
If you're me a job description, it should
have the compensation attached to it.
Let's save each other some trouble.
Then I can tell you whether or
not you're in my price range.
Duke: Seriously, save us the trouble.
And listen, okay, listen, if
you're work for big recruiting
right now, like just we're gonna
meme on you for like 15 minutes
CJ: Ha ha ha
Duke: and we're gonna vent and all I can
say is if you can just survive it for the
next few minutes, you may learn something
that's going to increase your success.
and how might I know that?
Because I closed like
four recruiting deals.
This month.
So, like, how about that?
CJ: Ha ha
Duke: and I always put
like four or five things.
I don't even make big
huge job descriptions.
I just say here's the comp range.
Here's the job title.
Here's any other stipulations, right?
Here's the nice to haves.
CJ: Yeah, no, let's talk about
that, dude, because I do, I've
noticed, your job posts on
LinkedIn, they are very transparent.
Duke: and listen, like everybody
who's a ServiceNow admin, ServiceNow
dev, ServiceNow architect,
they all know what the job is.
They know they're going to be
dealing with stakeholders in a cross
disciplined, diverse environment.
Like, everybody knows that.
I don't need your fricking essay about it.
CJ: So are you saying no cover letters,
Duke: Funny enough.
I had a customer ask for a cover letter
and it's just like, okay, well, they
want what they want traditionally.
I'd say now email is
a cover letter, right?
If you're sending a resume
via email, that should come,
CJ: man?
I
Duke: what they want.
So he asked for a cover letter.
I give him a cover letter.
CJ: know.
I hear you, man.
I've been in, I've been in it
for longer than I'd care to say
on this podcast live in public.
And I've written exactly one
cover letter and my entire career.
So, that's my rant, right?
Like, I am absolutely, totally and
completely anti covered letter, like,
everything that you need to know
about me is on the resume to get you
to pick up the phone and call me.
And at that point we can talk the
cover letter, But I'm not right.
I'm not writing an essay.
I'm not applying for a grant.
Duke: It's a vestigial organ
of an old world, right?
So if you'd, you'd apply for a
job at the local plant, right?
And, you know, the resumes for
the new workers is probably all
the manager read in a day, right?
Except for the memos that came into his
in his literal physical inbox or hers.
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Like the little black tray
on top of the wooden desk.
Duke: but in this, in this
information economy stuff, why
give them something else to read?
It's like, damn it.
I just want to get to a
ServiceNow resource right now.
I don't want like this essay,
cover letter and then, and then
your freaking 5 or 6 page resume.
We can get to that too.
in the information economy, you gotta
think that people, read more in a day
to day than writers in the 1800s wrote.
In a day, like authors, people, it's
insane, but let's just skip back.
Can we just go right back to the
recruiter thing for a second?
CJ: Yeah, go for it,
Duke: we dunked on them hard and I
just want to make sure they leave
with something valuable, right?
It's just trust the fact that the
people you are asking to take service
now jobs, know what a service now job
entails, figure out what certs they need.
They're absolutely required.
and list those.
Don't tell people that they're
going to interact with humans all
day because they already know that.
Second, be transparent about the pay.
People are going to find out anyway.
And it's not like you're, detracting
the bad actors from applying.
Like if you hide , , the comp
that suddenly people, The only
thing you do by hiding that comp,
Is waste a good resource's time
if the numbers don't matter.
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: Oh, please, Can I please know
what the compensation range is?
And can I also get my
food bowl filled too?
Like, don't make us beg.
Don't make us look at your
stupid friggin calendly.
Like, why should it be up
to me going, like, I'm gonna
CJ: man, you gotta,
Duke: availability just so I can
ask what your compensation range is.
CJ: gotta back up off Calendly, man.
That's my, that's my jam.
Duke: no, I, I love Calumlee.
I'm saying their stupid
Calumlee, not mine.
Oh, I feel a lot better though.
Like, Mm hmm.
CJ: no, but you're absolutely right.
And, this is one of those things where,
uh, you and I have a bit of privilege
in, in this environment, right?
Because we've been doing this for
so long that , I'll be honest,
? Like right now, I don't even
have to send a resume sometimes.
. And so, I have my choice
of whether or not.
I want to work with you or whether or not
I even want to answer your email or your
LinkedIn message but there are a lot of
people out there who aren't at our stage
and their time still matters, right?
Duke: right.
CJ: and the experience matters for
everybody and it saves everybody time.
And everybody gets on
the same page quicker.
If everyone knows what the salary
range is for a job, because
nobody's working for free.
Like we all do this to make
money, to pay other things.
Right.
And so you are trying to get me into
a position so that you can make money.
And I am trying to get into that
position so that I can make money.
So let's just talk about what
that money looks like up front,
just send it to me in the message.
And then I can tell you,
Hey, thanks for reaching out.
This is below my range.
I'll just keep me in
mind for future projects.
So I can say, Oh, no, this looks great.
Let's talk about it.
Here's my resume, Like, that's easy.
Duke: It literally, yeah, it
literally provides no advantage.
Like, what advantage could it
possibly give to keep that a
secret for any length of time?
CJ: I don't know because eventually you
have to be transparent about it's not
like you're saving margin either, because
you're going to tell me what it pays.
And I'm my salary request doesn't change
based on how far in the process we get.
Right.
Like, so, I mean, if anything, it
might go up once I figure out how much
work the, um, the, the role entails.
So you might, you might be doing a
disservice to the client at the end of
the day, because I might ask for a couple
of dollars more because this seems like
a little bit of more work than I thought
it would be based on the description.
Duke: Yeah, I had one recruiter try
to tell me they'll decide on the
comp after you've made it through
all the rounds of interviews.
I'm like, all the rounds of interviews?
Okay, let's talk about hourly
rate for doing interviews.
CJ: Right.
Duke: You know, because
that's work for me, right?
CJ: seriously, right.
And even in this market, right.
And this is a bit of a weird market
right now across, you know, all sectors.
. But even in this market, like the
ecosystem, the service now ecosystem
is one where talented resources can
typically write their own ticket.
.
And so , nobody is going through
all the rounds of interviews just to
figure out what the position might pay.
Right.
Like, it sounds like it
might even be an internship.
Duke: Yep.
Yeah, exactly.
Like, can you imagine doing all
that just to find out one of these?
It's not, it's another one of
these new, like, 45 an hour
jobbies that are hitting the
CJ: Yeah.
Right.
Duke: come on.
Come on.
Do you really want to be that company?
CJ: No, I don't think anybody really does.
And the key here, , is that this
is just a both ways thing, like
treat everybody like a grownup.
Duke: No kidding.
No kidding.
and that you actually want them.
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: You know what I mean?
You're, you're prepared to like
pay all the salary and benefits and
stuff, like act like you want them.
And another thing is like
juniors won't be juniors forever,
CJ: Fair,
Duke: They'll remember, they'll
remember how they're treated.
And I'll tell you another thing,
like, I don't care if you outsource
your recruiting, the people who
reach out on behalf of your company,
as recruiters, paint a picture
of what your company is like.
Please don't let me name names.
Please don't, please don't.
CJ: Don't name any names,
but what I would say, right?
Like, if you are outsourcing, you're
recruiting to other companies, you
should be ministry shopping them.
Like, you should be understanding
what the experience is like for
the candidates who are going
through your outsource recruiting.
So you can understand, the
quality of candidates that you're
recruiting firm is bringing.
At the table, Because that's important
because you might wonder why you can
never get like a good, quality candidate.
And it might just turn out that
the experience working with
your recruiting firm is right.
It's horrible.
And so like good candidates drop out
because again, in this market, in a
service now ecosystem, if you've got
talent, you've got experience and you've
got skill, you can write your own ticket.
Right.
So you don't have to
deal with that, right?
This is not a, uh,
supply side market here.
This is, or, or maybe it is.
And the supply is with
the resource, right?
The supply is with folks like us, right?
And that supply is very, is
very narrow and marginal, right?
Like we're service now is rising
up and I'm a, I'm a big proponent
of the rise up program, right?
Like you see my face on it all the time.
And.
There's 1, 000, 000 new resources, 1,
000, 000 new people in the ecosystem by
next year, not this year, and those, and
those folks still got to climb up, right?
They still got to get the skills.
They still got to get
the experience, right?
They're not CJ.
They're not the Duke.
And look, make this easy on everybody.
Let's just treat everybody.
With respect for the time and, and
just imagine the respect for your
time that you're going to get back,
Duke: Yeah, yeah, I
feel so, so much better.
I really do.
CJ: you know, it's just the consolidation
of all the stuff that we see on LinkedIn.
Right?
Like, I don't talk about
this a lot on LinkedIn, but
I see all the posts about it.
Right.
And I, and I, and I deal with it as well.
it's just like, let's.
here's how you can help.
Here's how we're trying to help you
instead of just, griping about it to
each other, which we do all the time,
Duke: yeah.
Yeah.
Anything you want to talk about?
CJ: man, that felt cathartic.
Right?
Like, so, yeah, let's talk about Jenny.
I, so first let's, let's
take a, I want to zoom out.
Have you, used chat GPT lately
with the Dolly integration?
Duke: No, I've been using, the demo
version, chat GPT, not chat GPT 4.
I am good.
Like you, you twisted my arm.
You twisted my arm.
I am going to get the, uh, the premium.
CJ: Come on, man.
Duke: I know, man.
Yeah.
CJ: if you're less cheap than the Duke,
Duke: Yeah.
CJ: right?
Like the Dali integration with chat
GPT is freaking amazing, right?
Like it is such a game changer
in terms of image creation.
But that leads me to my, next point is
that the AI integration into service now.
It's also a game changer.
And.
For me, I don't look at this as a threat.
Maybe it will be in a few years.
Maybe not.
We'll see, all these, all technology
starts off, as folks thinking
like, this is going to take my job.
And most of the time it creates
more, but, what I look at this as a
force to multiply for myself, right?
Like, I'm already, you know, faster than
the average bear, but with gen AI, like
all of those little, you know, Random
command lists and functions that I used
to have to write to make code work.
Like I can have chat GPT, you write that
stuff for me, but let me tell you, and
still, and that saves me time and it saves
me like tedium, which are both great.
In my opinion, I hate tedium
really, really hate it.
, but the next thing, the best thing about
chat GPT integrations in a service now
is that chat GPT will document my code.
Greg, it will write comments to the
level of specificity that I ask it.
If I say chat, GTP document every
single line in this code, it will
do it and I don't have to write it.
I could just add it.
It is amazing.
We all hate comments.
Really?
We're developers.
How often have you run into an instance
where there's no comments in code?
Duke: So, first of all, I love comments.
CJ: Yeah.
Right.
Right.
Oh, well, well, okay.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I love them
to hate writing them.
Love them when they exist
Duke: Yeah, no, I can see that.
I mean, that definitely
seems like a great use case.
take my code and then
write comments about it.
CJ: and flip it, flip it.
Right.
Like take this code.
I just, I just, I just started this gig.
Right.
I'm jumping in this instance, man.
It's like 300 lines of code here.
I can read it all or chat GPT.
Bam.
Tell me what this does.
Oh, that's great.
Then you go back and read it.
Duke: Man, did I tell you?
Okay.
So I'm part of the, uh,
service now developer discord.
CJ: Thank you.
Duke: we'll have a link in the
description for that below, by the way.
but we have a jobs board there and
I post the jobs I'm recruiting for.
And some developer came on and
said that, Oh, I can do this.
And so we started asking him
questions and, , he was just posting
chat, GPT answers to the question.
So like, can I just read it out?
It's, it's hilarious, man.
It's hilarious.
CJ: I love it.
Go for
Duke: So hi, nice to meet.
Why?
CJ: I
Duke: I am senior full stack developer.
I am for six years experience.
I can fully satisfy your needs.
DM me.
Okay.
So I'm like, okay, let's, let's
see what this is all about.
Okay.
So here's me tell me about
your ServiceNow experience.
I have had excellent experience
at ServiceNow, leveraging its
powerful features to streamline our
IT service management processes.
In my previous role, I successfully
implemented ServiceNow's IT service
management bracket I T S M solutions, to
improve incident , resolution time by 30%.
I customized workflow, automated
routine tasks, and integrated
various IT tools resulting in a more.
Efficient, responsive IT support system.
Additionally, I utilize ServiceNow's
reporting and analytics tools
to generate actionable insights,
allowing us to proactively address
issues and optimize our services.
Overall, my experience with ServiceNow has
significantly enhanced our IT operations
and contributed to our team's success.
CJ: Yeah, all right.
Duke: it's like such a
TPT to ludicrous speed.
CJ: Right.
All right.
So if you're listening, you got
through that, don't do that.
Duke: Okay.
So that's just the beginning.
Here's the good part.
Okay.
being suspicious that perhaps
this was not generated by a human.
I said, tell me about the hardest
thing you built in service now and
which components you built with it.
Please talk in plain language.
Okay, simply put, IT service
management solutions integrating
IT operations management and
IT business management modules.
These parts were difficult.
CJ: Okay,
Duke: It's like, okay, six
years experience ServiceNow.
You definitely am for
six years experience.
CJ: I mean, seriously, was it a, well,
you're talking to the bot, maybe you
were talking directly to the bot.
Maybe there was a, discord integration,
the chat GPT on the other end,
Duke: joke's on me and I just
trained some AI to be that much
better at ServiceNow interviews.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
CJ: like, wow.
think AI is a great tool and I
think everybody should use it.
Right.
I think you also should
be careful how you use it.
Right.
Like, you know, at the end of the
day, this, it, it hallucinates.
Right.
So you want to make sure that
the thing that is telling you to
do is actually something that's
grounded in the real world.
I'm really good at editing.
It takes me sometimes a little while to
get going when you're creating something
from something from scratch, right?
Chat GPT as a giving you like a
place to start that you kind of edit
and refine and build on and until
it's yours and it doesn't and is no
longer chat GPTs, that's fine, right?
It won't sound like any of that.
Duke: hmm.
CJ: But if you just like throw a
prompt in there and then take the
read out and say, this is my answer.
Yeah.
You're going to end up on the
CJ and the Duke a jam session.
Duke: I'll tell you
what I'm excited about.
CJ: What's that?
Duke: I am hoping that somehow they
merge the worlds of Natural language,
understanding and chat GPT or whatever,
whatever model service now uses.
Right.
I'm, I'm still like,
I'm not a super AI guy.
I hope they merge those two worlds and
make a more like, like a conversational
reporting and analytics interface.
CJ: Ooh, I like
Duke: So it's like, Hey, come
up with a model that tells me how
good most of my knowledge base is.
and I'm sure there's ways you
could build your own queries
and maybe that is easier way.
But I just like to just
say, like, listen, service.
Now, the experts, they've got like,
a million, everybody else's data.
So why can't they say something?
Like, here's a good measure of
a, knowledge basis strength.
And so when you go and say, Okay.
And have it come back with listen,
80 percent of your articles haven't
even been viewed or like, here's a
collection of the ones that, have been
Mark useful and use them as a sample,
or here's the ones that are, that are
actually for products are out of date.
Have it strip out the old text or
maybe, maybe don't even ask it.
Maybe you just, it's got some
kind of like AI insights for you.
When you come in for work the
next morning, you just sit down.
Do your coffee, sip, and
then it just says, Hey, Mr.
Admin, you know, your
knowledge base is mostly crap.
should know.
Enjoy your coffee.
CJ: that's a great point, right?
Like one of the things when I started.
Doing ITSM, right, which was on
a product previous to a service.
Now, like one of the things my boss
was keen on was what are the industry
standard KPIs, and metrics that we
need to be looking out for, right?
And like, where, where
can we find this list?
There used to be a site, I think
that used to have like a list of.
Duke: library.
CJ: Is that where it is?
Okay.
KPI library.
Yeah.
And so, that benchmark where you
you can take your data and benchmark
it against those KPIs and come up
with some kind of measurement and
you don't have to figure out what
best practice is like, that's great.
Put that in the AI, which probably is.
And boom, that's, I mean, that's value.
Absolutely.
Value.
Library is shot.
Duke: what's that?
CJ: It's shot.
Duke: Oh, shut down.
Oh.
Maybe they sold the IP to somebody.
CJ: Yeah.
I hope so.
Duke: ServiceNet already
has those benchmarks, right?
I'm not sure how heavily they're used,
but maybe something that also guides
in the development of an app, when
I'm teaching people about developing
apps and reporting, like, you know
how I'm all about the outcomes, right?
Outcomes, outcomes, outcomes, and those
form your basis for your performance
analytics because if you're going
to do performance management against
your outcomes and you need to judge
the present against the past, right?
but people just build apps all
the time, And how much time
and energy do you think about?
Oh, do I need to build PA stuff for it?
And most of the time they just avoid
it because building PA stuff is hard.
But it doesn't have to be hard because
they even have that thing that's basically
like copy all the main indicators,
but make it for this table, right?
CJ: Right.
Duke: Sorry, I'm going DPA here, but
imagine if it's like AES, it's AES, right?
And you have some kind of like, it's
for my soaping app and what is the thing
that you're most interested in tracking?
And I say, I need to know.
how many of my batches got botched
in a given period and I need
to know the, the speed at which
my ingredients are being used.
Right?
So I basically, I use a lot more
olive oil than everything else.
So my palm oil is going to last me months.
My olive oil is going to last me days and.
think of all the things chat GPT
already interprets very well.
Imagine we could just say okay There's
here's an ingredient usage table So
let's track the sum of the ingredients
over time should be able to extrapolate
that for me saying I'm worried about my
ingredient Consumption and then just have
it make the indicators for you And then
have a dev, like the person who really
knows PA, just give the AI a crackhead
check to make sure it was built right.
Saves so much time!
And not only would it save it time, but
it would actually, book more business.
how many customers right now are
just on the precipice of just
saying, why am I paying for PA?
Because I don't use it.
Yeah, because you don't know
CJ: Yeah, yeah, no, that,
that's, that's a good point.
Duke: sorry.
CJ: you're good.
No, you're good because
I totally agree with you.
There's a lot of functionality and
service now that I feel like is
underutilized because folks just don't
know how, because it's outside the
beaten path of like a very specific
thing, incident specific, right?
Problem.
Well, that's not a new problem.
Can we still low wonky
change specific, right?
P.
A.
Not specific, P.
A.
Is vague.
P.
A.
Is kind of broad.
there's no really good.
this is how you do PA thing.
However, right?
Like, Oh, what's up the post that you made
Duke on community, that's, that's great.
That taught me PA actually.
, but like going back to what you
were talking about though, like it
just reminded me so much of Clippy.
Like you, you want, like, while
you're doing, while you're doing PA,
you want Clippy to pop up was like,
or are you trying to do a metric?
Duke: I don't want
interruption, no way, no how.
CJ: Oh, man, like Clippy was
just ahead of his time, right?
Imagine Clippy with AI,
that would be amazing.
Microsoft needs to get on that.
Duke: I just, I just remember that
meme I saw with like some, it's like,
it's the top of a letterhead it says.
CJ: Let's edit this one out.
Duke: Yeah, probably so.
CJ: yeah, we're going to
need to edit that one.
No, but, but yes.
Oh, man.
What else is going to do?
You know what?
Create a con, a call for
content is just gone live.
I think.
Duke: Oh, what's up with that?
CJ: Who's going to do it right?
It comes down to it, right?
This is where I, where I have the deepest
admiration, uh, and inspiration and,
and, and I'm Inspired by you, right?
Like, because you presented it like
so many different knowledges, right?
And I remember early in our friendship
when we're just getting to know
each other, you're like, man,
I'm going to present a knowledge.
And I was thinking
like, wow, that's crazy.
Like, I can't imagine getting up and stand
up in front of dozens of people in a room
and, you know, and talking about this
Like, I just felt, you know, everyone's
scared of public speaking, right?
And you got up there and
you, and you killed it.
And, you know, and that's
what this is, right?
Creative con is everybody's shot do
that same thing and, become well known.
Two, right?
Like, I mean, it's, it's, hate
to meme influencer, right?
But,
Duke: Yeah.
CJ: you know, it's at the
same time though, right?
Like get up there and get in
front of your peers and talk.
and what it does is it helps create those
relationships and that network, right?
That you're going to have forever.
And it just comes in handy.
Right?
Like,
Duke: and listen, when I first
started, I had zero confidence
in what I was proposing.
I was just like, well, let's just
propose and see what happens.
My 1st proposal was, do
you remember a I'm sorry.
Do you remember at that company
CJ: yeah, that company.
I remember.
Duke: where I made that lightweight
domain separation and we call it
white picket fence separation.
And I was like, this seemed pretty cool.
So I'll present on that.
And they accepted.
I was like, what, it was
just this thing I made,
CJ: Yeah.
And, and then I was like, Oh, then, so,
so tell me, like, after they accepted
that, like, did your, like, stomach drop?
did you get that, that feeling
that like, you're like, Oh, crap.
Now I actually got to do it.
Duke: a little bit.
Nature made it easy for me.
So I think I would have been nervous if
I thought it was, you know, so I didn't
think it was going to have a huge turnout.
Cause it's kind of a niche case.
Right.
And sure enough, it was
the new Orleans one.
So it was basically like, everybody
was hung over and I literally,
I literally joked to them.
I'm just like, Hey everybody.
if you guys just rate me five stars
right now, I'll just keep the lights
down low and I'll talk real quiet.
there's like eight people.
And so it was kind of like, ah,
it's not so bad, but it was, it was
the next year where I did another
one where I thought, no way people
are gonna be interested in this.
It was the, on politics and
deployments or on politics and tools.
And how to plan for the political
battles that you'll face in an
implementation and what, what are the
main ones and how do you get over them?
Right.
CJ: Yeah, yeah,
, Duke: okay, it'll be like last
time, maybe it'll be 20 this time.
You never know.
And standing room only,
everybody sat down.
There's a whole bunch of people
standing in the back, forgot my belt.
So I'm like, can I keep my pants up?
CJ: probably was a good thing, right?
Like one, you should probably, you should,
you don't want your pants to fall down
in front of a bunch of people, right?
Like it's, but the second thing is right.
Like it gives you something
else to concentrate on too.
Like you're, you're, so you're, you're,
you're, uh, making your brain busy.
So you can't focus on it.
The fact that there's a standing room
only and you're, you know, and you're just
like, I got to get through the content.
I gotta make sure my pants don't fall.
Duke: those pants on.
CJ: Exactly.
Exactly.
Duke: And that one was just
nature saved me on that one too.
Cause I was, very nervous.
it was kind of at that point, that
magic interval where it's like, 3.
01.
People are probably gonna be wondering
where you start and everybody's settled.
And so now you have nothing else
you can do to avoid starting.
CJ: Right.
Duke: so I kind of nervously asked, is
it anybody's first knowledge 13 and.
Like a bunch of people raised their hands
and in one second I'm like, you dumbass!
Like,
CJ: Because everybody's
first knowledge, 13.
Duke: But then I realized, no!
It's everybody's first Knowledge 13.
I got you, you didn't get me.
And so that was like a killer
icebreaker, like everybody was
like, having a time about it.
And then it was just like, ok, I got you.
I got you.
CJ: Right, right.
And that,
Duke: Ever after that, it's like,
I don't care, like 300 people,
a thousand people, I don't care.
CJ: that's awesome.
Right.
Like, I'm still not quite there.
, I'm still at the phase
where I just do it anyway.
Right.
Like, you know,
Duke: do though.
CJ: yeah.
Like, I just get up on stage.
I get in front of people and I just.
Do it anyway.
And, you know, and at the end of the day,
right, like it always comes out well,
but I'm always like scared that it's not
going to but you just get on with it.
Right?
Like, you know, I've got a lot of
British friends and, it's always
kind of like that stiff upper
lip and you just get on with it.
Right.
And so that's what I do.
Duke: If I, if I've ever been like nervous
or something, like I'm stuttering or I'm
inarticulate or didn't come out right,
I will immediately take ownership of it.
CJ: Yeah, yeah,
Duke: know what I mean?
And just say, Oh, that was awkward.
Ha ha ha.
what are they going to do?
They can't think badly of you.
You thought about it too.
Like, we're all in this together.
CJ: yeah,
Duke: Let's laugh at that
dumb ass thing that happened.
CJ: well, absolutely.
Right.
Like, so I got a, I got a buddy.
He said, um, and I forget, I think he got
this from somebody else, but it's your
job as the speaker, . Is to ensure that
you're delivering the quality content.
It's the audience's job to make
sure that they're receiving it.
Right.
So, so don't do their job for them, right?
Like just do what you do.
Focus on delivering the
qu the, the, the content.
Focus on delivering it in a quality
manner and the rest of it shakes out.
Duke: have yourself a few little
like quips to like anticipate doing
something wrong and then just have like
a fancy one liner you can shoot out
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah.
That
Duke: time.
Next time.
I'm going to rent the premium lifts.
Or I trip over something like, did
you see that thing jump out at me?
CJ: Plus, you know, a little bit, a
little bit of what I've learned, right?
Like a little bit of flubbing, right?
Humanizes you with the audience,
which makes them more receptive
to the, to the content, right?
Duke: sure.
There's no like, there's
no bombing it, right?
Like, it's so, it's so
hard to bomb these things.
CJ: Yeah, the last thing to do, right?
Is that you're doing something
that everybody else in that
audience wishes they were doing,
Wishes that they had guts to do.
So when you're up there on stage
talking to them, they're all
looking at you thinking like,
man, I wish I could do that.
Duke: Yup.
That was me at knowledge 11
and I presented the next year.
CJ: boom, it was like,
I wish I could do that.
And then you're like, you know what?
I can do that.
I will do that.
Duke: absolutely.
I think that's a good place to leave it.
Huh?
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's leave it.
Uh, we'll leave, uh, links to
create a con, a call for content
below, as well as some good gen
AI stuff and every other link
Duke: All right.
Thanks folks.
See you on the next one.
CJ: later.