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The marketing community's destination for direct, unencumbered conversations about the future of our industry. Featuring guests from the wide, diverse groups that are involved in every aspect of marketing. From brand CMOs to freelance artists. From rural, suburban, urban and global backgrounds. And from every circle of the ad tech ecosystem.
Hello. My name is Ryan Green. And today, my guest is Jackie Phillips. JP is a self made entrepreneur in every sense of the word. She is the owner and CEO of Unheard Media, whose portfolio includes television, radio, podcast, and live streaming shows.
Ryan:She's also an executive coach for hundreds of business people in the Saint Louis area and beyond. She is a servant leader who invests her time and resources into passion projects around renewable energy and serves as a mentor for the Acre Acceleration cohort at the University of Missouri in Saint Louis. She also recently received an honorary doctorate degree from Harvest Christian University. Welcome to the show, JP.
JP:Thank you so much. Now I like that introduction. That was really nice. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Ryan:Well, we've had, what, 5 or 6 6 different, meetings, and I've taken a lot of notes on on your background and career. So that was my best way to try to surmise, what has been a a a great career that you have. You've entered entrepreneurship, I wanna say, 20 years ago. Almost 20 years. If I have my timeline correct, tell me about your experience starting in entrepreneurship.
Ryan:How did you push yourself into, being your own boss and to, the position that you're in today?
JP:So, actually, I would say that my start was mentorship. It is through mentorship. Someone seeing they need what I never even saw myself. But our connection came through me serving and it was because he was actually having a hard time one day. And I just I'd walked by him a few times and it just, you know, I just couldn't get away from him.
JP:He looked like he needed help. And so I asked and that started, a beautiful, mentorship that turned into a beautiful friendship that, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be anywhere near where I am today if it wasn't for him. And, so
Ryan:And what is his name?
JP:So his name was Rick Shank. It would have been a different story if I wouldn't have stopped to see what was, you know, he'd forehead was all wrinkled up. You know? If I wouldn't have stopped, to to help and to serve, the way that he thanked me will last forever.
Ryan:That's great. You've told me, the story of Rick before, but for our guests, do you wanna talk a little bit about how you met Rick and what lessons, he imparted, with you?
JP:Absolutely. So we met at a mind tasting, back in the day. I'll age myself a little bit. I was, you know, not very happy with the corporate position that I had maintained, out of the military. It I'm I'm all about people.
JP:People are the answer, in my opinion. You know, that's up for debate in a lot of places, but people are the answer if you ask me. And so I was out networking with copies of my resume at the time.
Ryan:Physical copies, papers, the freaking things? Wow.
JP:That updating
Ryan:you. I
JP:tell people I'm seasoned, and I'm okay with that. And, what's what's also interesting about us meeting that Hawaiian tasting is that I don't drink. I never have. However, I knew people were gonna be there, and I was just trying to get to, you know, get in front of people. And, he's this older gentleman.
JP:He's sitting here, and he's tapping away at his laptop, and he has, you know, wrinkles in his forehead, and he just looks in, you know, the the sigh of man, I thought I figured it out, but I walked by him a couple of times, and then finally, I got a a god message to say, you know, ask him what was happening. And so I asked him, like, you okay? He needs some help. And he was trying to, use his map to open up a Word document. And, you know, back then, I didn't make it easy.
JP:Right? It wasn't easy, but I had a a Dell computer at the time. And I was like, well, why don't you email it to me? And, you know, we'll figure it out. And so, that's what happened.
JP:And he was just like, you know, you said you just saved me. I procrastinated, and I almost missed the deadline, but you saved me. So, you know, let me take you out to to to lunch and and, you know, to talk. And I gave him a copy of my resume and explained to him what I was looking for in a position and all that good stuff. And, you know, time went by, and I didn't think anything go hit.
JP:And, you know, he gave me his card. Give me a, you know, give me a call. Let's do lunch. And I didn't but he had a copy of my resume, so he called me. And we connected at that lunch, and, he was the first person to say to me that I was too smart to work for anyone else.
JP:And he was also the first person to ask me, had I ever considered entrepreneurship? And at that moment, no. Right? So my parents were born in the thirties, and so it was, you know, you go to school, you get your education, you know, if you want to serve, okay. But you go and get you a good job.
JP:You save for a rainy day and you stay out of the way. Entrepreneurship wasn't even an option as it's, you know, we see 12 year old saying they're they're gonna drop out of school and become influencers. You know, that was completely unheard of.
Ryan:It's it's crazy how much has changed and, you know, being seasoned to be and having such a close relationship with your parents, with, Rick and the mentors, and then able to see now. That's almost a 100 years of time to see a 12 year old now being able to run their own business when
JP:Yes.
Ryan:You know, it wasn't even something that you initially considered something I never really considered for a long time too. We're living in quite, quite a time of change and disruption, aren't we?
JP:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But it's I you know what? I enjoy it. I enjoy seeing the evolution.
JP:There are some scary parts, of course, but I enjoy, I say to my nieces and nephews all the time. I wanna teach you early what I learned late. And so to see that in action, it's it's it's amazing. It is amazing when it's done right. Like I said, there are some scary parts out there, but when it's done right, it's amazing to see.
Ryan:What are some of the things that you teach your nieces that you learned, late that you want them to learn now? How
JP:to make your money work for you. Right? So and, again, you know, we were taught, you know, you save for a rainy day, and your money it's, you know, it's great. You know, I'm not saying don't save, but also learn to invest. So you make your money work for you and you make money while you're sleeping or on vacation or whatever you're doing.
JP:That's not something that, we were taught right away. It was about surviving, you know, survive. So, financial literacy is huge. Emotional intelligence is something we talk about very often and how important that is to success. We also talk about, group economics and how important that is, because I do quite a bit of coaching with, investment groups and how that works and why that works and why even now while we're, you know, dealing with an inflation, while why it makes sense.
JP:So I talk to my nieces and nephews about that, and and that that's something I learned late. I didn't learn that until I was in my thirties.
Ryan:You know, talking about money not having a d taboo, something I've learned late as well, but it's really important. And you used a term that, I wanna make sure I know the definition of group economics. How do you define that? That's not something that's in my, vernacular.
JP:So with group economics as I see it, it is a group of people, whether it's your family, colleagues, whoever. And you all decide on, a pool of money that you will invest in something that will present, you know, hopefully, over time, passive income from you all. So I've coached people to buy strip malls, hotels, schools, recruiting businesses. So, you know, to add land for that matter, taking land and turn it in into farmland is a big one. So group economics is whoever you feel safe with and close with enough to do that with, to, you know, everybody eats.
JP:Everyone makes money. Everyone learns. Everyone takes the risk too. So, but the beautiful thing is is, you you know, you're learning together. And I I don't believe in lessons, you know, like, in losses per se, just lessons because you learn something.
JP:And every time you take a loss that adds to your foundation, you know what not to do again or how you know, when to let it go, when to when to accelerate. So it's a it's a it's a great I I love it. I enjoy it. And the thing I enjoy most is the diversity of thought. You have typically a few different generations, all kinds of walks of life, even within your family.
JP:Right? You really wanna get intimate with people, start talking about money in their relationship with money. A lot of folks don't realize that you have a relationship with money. Right? Your mindset around money is just as important as it is your mindset around, your personal and physical relationships.
JP:And most people don't realize how bad they talk about money, you know, their bad habits with money. And how
Ryan:they monetize money or how they see money as a cure to something that it isn't?
JP:Yes.
Ryan:Or to, think about it in traditional sense of I need to save x amount so that I can have y, but not thinking about using it as a lever to, to help your your growth. And then what you're talking about even going a step further to have your family or your, peer set, or your community involved together with that, that's an amazing way to think about it.
JP:Yeah. Yeah. It's good stuff. And it's it's a process, but, you know, if you start, especially, you know, the younger you want these things, the better off you are. I tell them all the time, I want you to crush everything that I've ever accomplished.
JP:I want that to be, you know, your stomping ground, like crushing and and sore.
Ryan:I'm talking about mindset. That certainly takes a front seat when you become an entrepreneur. Could you, talk to the audience of people who maybe are considering doing some type of entrepreneurial focus, what things that you think are important in mindset?
JP:I think I think mindset is is different for everyone because we we all have our different situations, but the mindset is really how you talk to yourself, how you receive, how you filter. It's really all about you. And and through entrepreneurship, I would say that you have to condition yourself to to get ready for the word no. This and no, it has to you have to figure out a way to filter it to mean next. Not stop, but next.
JP:And that's that's usually where people you know, all of the no's, you know, you get you take 50 no's to get to one yes. It can be a little heartbreaking, so I think you have to understand that no means next and then understand that your level of fear. Where are you when it comes to fear? Fear shows up as procrastination. Fear shows up as, a negative attitude.
JP:Right? All of the people who complain and complain, who complain, there's usually some fear in there. Fear shows up as hypervigilance. Fear shows up as laziness. Just flat out.
JP:So you have to understand where you are with the word no and with fear. How do you receive it? How do you filter it? And then what do you do about it? For me, I developed a morning routine and an evening routine, and it helps me it helps me, get energized for the day, but also to release the day because that that crown gets heavy.
JP:It gets heavy. And you are a human being, and I don't care how fantastic you are. I don't care how long you've been doing it. You will burn yourself out if you don't learn that balance. You have to learn how to charge yourself up, but then also how to leave it on the floor and walk away and love on your family and take care of yourself.
JP:Right? A lot of entrepreneurs, we fail to take care of ourselves because we're wearing 17 hats a day, 7 days a week. So you have to learn that balance.
Ryan:The more I'm glad you brought up the routines. There's a lot of focus amongst a group of people on morning routines and effectiveness, that that can have, but equally as important is that letting go and that that have and the the crown. And I think a lot of people don't think about that. Right? Yes.
Ryan:And I love what you said about fear to most successful people, whether they're entrepreneurs or successful with their families or within their communities, are able to take fear and make it into a tailwind and not a headwind. And that's a lot of times going opposite of your instinct. I think the other thing about, the word no to is you being able to say no to things. There's a people pleasing part, and sometimes I think, especially maybe when you get started in a business to say yes too much. So no isn't just about hearing no, but it's also about saying no, being gracious, being thoughtful, being empathetic to, to saying no as well.
Ryan:Would you agree?
JP:I absolutely agree. Absolutely agree. I think we say yes too much because we're excited. Right? And, we we, you know, we think we can handle it.
JP:Right? From from the looks of it, we can handle it because we don't know, especially when we first started out, we end up burning ourselves out because we have said yes too much. And so finding that balance finding the balance of what is sometimes you have to let go of the good for the great, and sometimes you have to say no so you, respect the boundaries that you have for yourself. Like, no. I will not impede on my family time.
JP:No. I will not impede on my quiet time. No. I will not. If you know my morning or evening routine.
JP:No. It's a it's a no. And what I found is no matter how great the opportunity sounds, if it is stretching you in a way that you have to, burn yourself out to do so or, you know, you you disappoint your family, disappoint yourself. It's not worth it.
Ryan:Do you have any examples of when you wished you would have said no or how you've grown to embrace, no as you've went on your journey that you could share?
JP:Yeah. Absolutely. So I was presented and this was maybe 5 years ago. I was presented an opportunity to help coach, a group on project management, and I didn't say I didn't say no. But I I knew going in that it would it would mess with my do not disturb time.
JP:I I'm huge on time blocking, and I knew it would I knew it would. And I tell you, I regretted every ounce of it because I didn't get, you know, I didn't get my time to detach. You know, things spilled over. It it it was just not a good experience, and I feel like I wasn't my best self because of it. Very recently, a colleague of mine who I've worked with on quite a few projects, we were we are working on a project that I I'll be very transparent and say I'm glad that it's over because it was not a great experience.
JP:Even when you say yes, you also want to honor what feels good to you and what you're passionate about and what you know is right. And although I don't think it was intentional, the way that the program was ran, I I don't it doesn't align with, you know, what I feel like entrepreneurs should have to go through to get help. That's just that's just I I don't feel good about it. They know it. I'm a fluff person.
JP:You're going to know. Yeah. They're good. They they you know, they know exactly how I feel, and I just don't, I don't agree with putting people in, unnecessary situations for financial gain or for clout even.
Ryan:Sure. Or for what yeah. Whatever those reasons are.
JP:Mhmm.
Ryan:Because things don't stay static. They evolve. And even what, you know, a project or a business or a person, was 3 years ago, 12 months ago, 12 minutes ago can change, right? So just because you agreed to a set of principles or said yes, or even signed a contract, in the past, the situation can change. And, you need to have a type of confidence, I guess, to be able to, accurately react to the change as it is and not how you want it to be.
JP:Oh, yeah. The this particular program when they want to talk about renewal, I was just like, yeah. Don't worry about it. I'll, I'll pass. And here's why.
JP:Right? In a in a very, very respectful yet very detailed summary of why I I won't put myself or my brand through this again. It's a no for me. So, yes, saying no and hearing no is they're they're equally important.
Ryan:Well, and one lever that money may have for you is that, you know, you probably could go do something else differently. Well, you have a little bit more control to to be able to do it Right. In the way that you want towards the direction that you would like it to go on.
JP:So Absolutely.
Ryan:That's another way where money is a lever. It's not just in being able to go on vacation, but it's also to be able to dictate how you want a project to go, how you want time to go. There's a control element
JP:Yes.
Ryan:When leveraged appropriately with the right intention, I think can come a long way.
JP:Absolutely. Absolutely.
Ryan:You have a really broad spectrum of experiences and businesses that you've been involved in. How do you kind of weigh the how do you weigh weigh the role of strategy versus the intuition? How do you when you look at an opportunity, how much of it is looking at the spreadsheet, the math, the cash flow analysis, the people, and the products, and all kind of the more traditional business things versus your instinct and how you just what your gut tells you and what your what the vibe, what your soul says to do. How do you weigh kind of about those 2, juxtapositions?
JP:It evolved, of course. You know, when you first start now, if it doesn't make money, it doesn't make sense, you know, no matter how it felt because you're trying to establish yourself. And so, the the blessing is is I I started to realize, and this is this is what I mean by your relationship with money, because, I wasn't always, blessed with the bank account to to to move things, but I had very, very, very lucrative relationships. And those relationships allowed me to make decisions based on okay. So it makes business sense to me, but does it feel good to me?
JP:Does it align with who are we helping? You know, what are we helping here? And so if I had to give a breakdown of percentage, it's probably at the moment, it has to be probably 60% business, 40% gut soul. What am I passionate about? And, that that has evolved, and that has, you know, circling back to the word, no.
JP:Sometimes something that's good, you know, maybe it's a good project. Maybe it's a good collaboration, but does it make me feel great? Do I do I feel like I actually solved a problem at the end of the day? If that if that answer is no, it's a no. It's a no, and it comes with, realizing just how much opportunity and money is out there for us to make.
JP:So I don't have I don't have the fear of lack.
Ryan:Yeah.
JP:And I also understand that what's for me can't be taken from me. Right? So there's no I don't I I won't have to jump through hoops for it. I won't have to break any laws to do it. I won't have to step on people to do it, and and I could feel good about it.
JP:I can I can be wealthy and happy, like, truly happy? Not looking over my shoulder, not feeling bad because, you know, I cost somebody, you know, a few $100,000, but I won. You know? It's a no for me.
Ryan:Yeah. You're you're not somebody who's stomping on anybody else to get ahead, and that is not how capitalism should or needs to work in America. No. We have ample opportunity to proceed thousands of different paths. You don't have to you don't have to trample anybody else.
Ryan:In fact, you will be a lot more financially secure and happy and solve problems if you bring people with you than looking at it as a as a battle. That's in that's not just in entrepreneurship. That's certainly within corporate America as well. And I know that you have gotten some opportunities to look inside the Komodo of corporate America a little bit. What characteristics of businesses are, ones that are pushing forth, finding innovative solutions in the right way?
Ryan:And which ones, what are the characteristics of leaders there that maybe still have an antiquated view on how to get ahead?
JP:I would start with the businesses that'll probably always be stuck. The characteristics of those businesses are it's all about the bottom line. Like, are you making money? Are you making money? It doesn't matter if we're making money the right way.
JP:Right? It doesn't matter if everyone's burned out and probably looking for employment, but we made money. Right? We we we did it. We made money.
JP:Greed. I just right. I call it greed. When greed is is the core, those companies that no matter who they bring in, they're gonna be the same. Those those companies also don't understand that attitude reflects leadership.
JP:And so if you aren't, you know, leading with compassion, leading with love, really promoting collaboration within your organization, you get that right back. Attitude reflects leadership.
Ryan:You know, there's a number of business leaders that I can think of who say the right things and maybe even, you know, put on that act, showcase those virtues. I don't think there's very many fortune 500 CEOs today that aren't at least attempting to look like they're trying. Yeah. But there's ones that fall short where it's, where it's transparent that they're looking at this in a calculated
JP:Yes.
Ryan:You know, public relations, note taking type of way. Yes. And then there's authentic leaders who are doing as a right way. And then I would also say there's a third group of authentic leaders that know that they're shitheads and doing it anyways. Right?
Ryan:Very true. How do you sniff out who's bullshitting with you and who's not? There are people who bring you into their circle for their own reason. Oh, yeah. And not from a place of love and compassion.
JP:Like Yeah. I check off I check off a few boxes for them. And, how how how I sniff out the d s is just through through communication. But what I found is that if you are sincere and you're you're coming from the right place, your conversation will always let me know that. Most people, when they bring me in and they're bringing me in to say, okay.
JP:I have these 3, 4 boxes. I could check off. Look at me. You know? I'm inclusive.
JP:You know, I often say to people, you know, the invite to the table, that's cute. But if you are, still making it difficult or you eat around me, right, I'm at the table, but you're eating around me. You're full of it. Right? And so, consistent communication, I watch body language.
JP:I watch how you react to certain because there are certain realities for me as a as a black woman. I'll just I'll just keep it there. As a black woman, that won't be the same reality for you. And what do you hear when I tell you that? What, you know, what do you regurgitate back to me?
JP:Right? Or do you come back to me and say, oh, no. This is America's every everything's fine. You know? So communication, just having that communication and and circling back around to, how people really respond and what, what are your actions?
JP:Right. You can invite me to the table, but if you're eating around me or there are whispers, there are just, you know, you just have me there, without taking my input seriously. I can pretty I can pretty much sniff that out right away, and I'm not a fluff person. I'm not a fluff person. And and I'll tell them, I'm I'm not your checklist.
JP:Don't I'll excuse myself. I'll excuse myself. Don't you even worry about it. But you better believe when people ask me, I'm gonna tell them the truth with validity. It will not be my emotions.
JP:It will not be what I feel. It'll be raw facts.
Ryan:And that's something that you and Kevin O'Leary from Shark Tank actually have in common is that you are compassionately direct, and you recognize that you need to say exactly how you feel. And that if you're coding language or dancing or people eating around you, right, to use your expression that, that's not doing anybody, including yourself, a service. Right? So I don't know how many people have ever compared you to Kevin O'Leary before. No.
JP:I was just about to say, well, wait a minute. That's that's a new one. That's a new one. That is a new one.
Ryan:In in in that one specific, instance, I'm very much else. I don't know how many, red Rolexes you have, but Yeah. No. You you are a swagged out. That's what your your phrase swagged out.
Ryan:You you dress up. You you put on the 3 piece suit. Yeah. But you're not vain in your flashiness, though. Right?
Ryan:You're not wearing the the Rolexes. You're not, praying around in Mercedes. No. You have a, a a different mindset, I think, with money than a lot of people would in your in your situation.
JP:Yeah.
Ryan:You're not you're you're using it as a lever for time. You're using it as a ability to to help. You you're seeing your relationship with money is very healthy. As you think about, in particular, your community, But what role does community play in your business and in your life and in your mindset as it pertains to your work and your time and where you put your energy?
JP:Community is huge. You know, there aren't many people who get the opportunity to, build a company, build a brand, and be successful at it, and can turn right around and say, I can show you exactly what I did to give you, and it not be from a place of, it needs to make money for me or it needs to make sense for me. Like you said, I use I use my career as a leverage to teach others. I'm constantly coaching. I'm constantly introducing people to any opportunity.
JP:Now now you could take advantage of it overnight. But my job my job is to be a platform. So community is huge. One of the reasons why I'm so passionate about, the tables that I sit at is because I realized that no more oh, How many times we hear that, things are changing, some things remain the same. And so if I am at that table, and I again, I'll be very blunt.
JP:If I enter a room and I am the only woman, I am the only person of color in that room. That is a problem for me, and I want to know why. And I want to I want to know why from a place of okay, apparently, I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. Apparently, maybe you don't have access to that that community, right, to my community, and so how can we collaborate to make this smart for everyone? And that's where, though, I get to sniff you out.
JP:Right? I I get to sniff you out and see if you're really about building or are you about what it looks like? And so community is huge for me. I I take as much as I can important to the community as far as, mentorship, coaching, monthly givebacks, anything that we can do to build the community. Again, trying to teach as much as I know to those who are interested cars, The cars, the Rolexes, all of that stuff, it looks nice.
JP:You know? It looks nice, but I'm just as impactful and
Ryan:looks nice. Sometimes it looks gaudy and True. But
JP:Yeah. It could be overkill. But I did I I make the same impact in my Chevy.
Ryan:Yeah. Yeah. You do. It gets it drives the same speed limit.
JP:Right.
Ryan:You're, yeah.
JP:So immunity is huge. It is, I feel like, part of my part of my charge, part of why I'm here is to open open the eyes of my community to both sides. Right? Because there is a flip flop. Right?
JP:Sometimes I'm the only person in a room who looks like me because my community is afraid. There's fear. Right? Like, what is this? What is this?
JP:And so being able to bridge that gap, like, okay, the door is open. You have to walk in, but also holding people accountable. Don't say the door is open when you're holding a damn door closed.
Ryan:We have an interesting community generally in St. Louis. We have I'm reading a book by Miles Davis, his autobiography. He was born in Alton, Illinois, had some pretty interesting stories about living in East St. Louis in the thirties.
Ryan:You you said some things have changed, some things haven't changed. How do you think about the broad broader community of St. Louis, especially as we're, you know, just in in the present day? What things have you seen change growing up in North Saint Louis in the nineties? What things have, improved?
Ryan:And what would you do if you had a magic wand to help bridge some of the gaps that you've seen throughout your life in origin?
JP:I think the things that I've seen change is I've seen more people be fed up with the status quo, and how you and I connected. Right?
Ryan:And
JP:and I think that that community is growing. But on the the flip side, that community is it's it's fighting from both sides. It's fighting to be trusted. Right? So if you and I are working on something, you know, we have to trust one another, you know, to move forward.
JP:But then we also have to face the status quo to say we're we're attacking you together. So I think that there are more people who understand that the way that we've always done things is is gonna ruin us if we don't flip the switch and start to make some real progress. But I also think that there's comfort in what we've always done for, certain groups certain groups, and they're like, it's fine by us. Why should we why should we change? Right?
JP:And so that it goes back to my metaphor of, you're at the table. What what are you complaining about as they eat their steak and there's nothing in front of me? You know? So, I think the beautiful thing is is that I do see quite a bit more conversation around the proper way to to really push Saint Louis forward, to to break out all of these clicks, to break out of the the greed and, you know, the money drive and realizing that if if you invest in people, the money will come.
Ryan:And maybe that comes down to the relationship with money. Right? The relationship with money that somebody who, you know, is in front neck is gonna be different than people who are doing some of the violent things in our community. Right? The people who are trying to build businesses are different than the ones that are trying to deface businesses.
Ryan:It really does come down to their mindset. I I feel like there's probably more in common with the mindset of groups of people that are struggling, whether they're in, you know, rural, Illinois at the bottom of the Saint Louis DMA or if they're, you know, in some of the more traditional rough neighborhoods. Yeah. It really does kinda come down to that in in some way ways I feel like, just to tie it back to our, the original part of our conversation. And that's why I'm and maybe that's what we have in common.
Ryan:That was one of the questions I was gonna ask you. Why do you think that we became friends?
JP:I think because we aren't afraid to have those conversations, and we aren't afraid to have those conversations because we understand that, a conversation is literally just scratching the surface and that there has to be strategy behind it. Right? So you can't just go out and say, I wanna change the world. Yeah. You know, that's great.
JP:People are going to think you're crazy and they're going to keep going. But if you show, that their strategy behind it, that strategy has to be realistic. I was having a conversation earlier about, school and traditional school for, because, again, I say all the time, I'm I'm really trying to get to kids, you know, catch them early, man, get them interested in things that, they're not seeing on the Internet all the time, and they understand, the back end of business. So they really understand that, the glitz and glamour that they see in front, there's a whole different beast behind it. But we are still trying to force the traditional classroom down the throats of kids who, at 12 years old, can become an influencer and make a $1,000,000.
JP:That's not going to work. That is that no longer works. And we see the uproar in schools. We see the, the, the range of, what's happening, you know, right before high school, during high school, at least in in my community, you see it. You see it.
JP:And I think you and I aren't afraid to have those conversations to say, okay. Something has to change, but it can't just be a bunch of rah rah because you're gonna get called out on BS.
Ryan:Sure.
JP:Right?
Ryan:Yeah.
JP:So there has to be a strategy that not only addresses okay. So we need to maybe change curriculum, but we also should probably start looking at mental health and mindset of our children far before they start acting out. Let's not wait on the teenage years and say our kids are acting out, and we need to no. Let's let's start to pave that right away. Right?
JP:Right away. How we talk to ourselves, how we view money, how we receive when others maybe are critical of us. All of that matters. So why aren't we teaching that?
Ryan:And the only way to teach that is to do it. Right? To me, as an fairly new father, I've realized that the words that come out of my mouth, you know, maybe in 10 or 20%, but my actions are really what what defines. Right? Like, you have to lead by example.
Ryan:You have to show even with small things, you need to show them how to cook your own food. If they see you eating out every day, they're gonna eat out every day, and they're gonna have bad type. They're not gonna be able to sleep, then they're gonna be cranky, then they're gonna act out. Right? Like Yes.
Ryan:It goes into so many things. Right? So the spine said and we've talked about it in in the in money, which is 5% of it. Right? The other 95 percent is in all those other behavioral, things too.
Ryan:So Yeah.
JP:It's Yeah.
Ryan:It it it goes far beyond that. But when you become your own business owner, you are every one of those decisions you make matters.
JP:It will
Ryan:take turns. And you're you're very exposed. You're not you can't, you know, put on the cape of I work for this person. I'm gonna have this paycheck come in. Right?
Ryan:Like, every one of those behaviors and mindsets, you're exposed to, which actually does make you change faster, I feel like. At least all 8 weeks I am through this, I realized very quickly what my fear output was.
JP:Mhmm.
Ryan:When I was feeling imposter syndrome, I'd go play a video game instead of running blog posts or doing reach outs or whatever the things that I needed to do because, obviously, there was security in that. But that was definitely fear. Right? I know you probably, were getting here at time. But if I can ask you one more question, what's one one thing that you've that you've changed your mind about since you've started your entrepreneurial journey?
JP:I think I've changed my mind about people. And and here's what here is what I mean by that. So I grew up with parents that were very direct. Right? You are
Ryan:doesn't fall far from the trend.
JP:Yeah. Very direct. Very matter of fact. So either you worked hard or you're lazy. That's it.
JP:There's no in between. Well, what I've learned in, becoming an entrepreneur and becoming responsible for others' livelihood is that it's always it's not always that cut and dry. There are there are layers to it. Like you said, instead of writing a blog post, you go and play the video game. And so what I've changed my mind about is giving people the benefit of doubt and digging a little deeper into, you know, why are you resisting this, or what do you need to learn?
JP:Understanding that there's great fear in saying I don't know. People are afraid to say I don't know.
Ryan:And Oh, yeah. They are.
JP:And, you know, I can remember being very young and and my dad I call my dad the chief. You know that. Mhmm. And him saying that, there is never anything wrong with saying what you don't know. What's wrong is if you allow it to stick.
JP:You don't go try to figure it out. You don't ask for help. You don't educate yourself. And so very young, I've never had a problem with saying, you know what? I don't know.
JP:I'm gonna have to look into that. I'm sure you've heard me say it a 1000000 times. Like, never even I don't know. Okay. I'm gonna have to study that.
JP:I'm gonna have to learn that. I'm gonna and but there is great fear in in not knowing and being being transparent about saying I don't know. And so what I've learned is a a more compassionate way to to to really find out if you're lazy or not. Right? Is it laziness or is it fear?
JP:And most of the time, I'm finding out it's just fear. Sometimes it's fear that's unrecognized. Like, people don't recognize. Like, a young lady who was working for me was saying one day, we were just having a freestyle Friday. So I do all kinds of goofy, corny stuff, in, and we would and then freestyle Friday was we're just going to talk about whatever open floor.
JP:And she was just saying how, you know, she felt like she should be happy. And, you know, she has a great career. She had a great relationship, but she still felt drained and didn't wanna get out of bed most days. And, and so off offline, I reached out to her and I said, you know, there are a couple of things. Maybe get checked out physically.
JP:Right? Because that could be that could be something. But have you also considered therapy? And she said, therapy for what? I was just like, I'll keep it real.
JP:Most black people, specifically women have at least 5 points of trauma that you've endured before you become an adult. You have to talk some to somebody about that. And she said, all this time, people have just said that I was lazy and no one ever thought beyond the fact that I just don't want to do anything. I go to work and that's it. And so I changed my mind about, how I listen, how I love, and how I lead.
Ryan:Well, that's great, Jackie. I think that's a good stopping point. I will certainly have you on for part 2 soon and, thank you again for your time and your friendship and, and your leadership. You've been, a blessing to me, and I am very thankful that we, have found each other and became friends and that you joined the Last Splash podcast.
JP:Thanks for having me.