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Beyond The Message is a weekly podcast that dives deeper into the weekend’s teaching. Released after each Sunday service, it offers thoughtful conversation, added insight, and practical reflection to help our community process and apply what they heard. Whether you're revisiting the message or catching up, this podcast is designed to help you go deeper throughout the week.
Welcome to Beyond the Message, the podcast where we take the weekly teaching at Christ Community Chapel and we bring it into your week. Each week we sit down to talk a little bit, reflect, and to figure out how to live it out, what it is that we are learning. If you didn't hear the message yet, no big deal. Drop down to the description where you can find a link to that message, listen to it, and then come back and join in on this conversation. My name is Stacey and I'm joined today by Jimmy Kozy, Mark Lyle and Holly Diakandru. Welcome, guys. Thanks. So glad to have you here. Hey, quick note before we jump in. This, uh, coming week is Easter, and for this week we're doing something a little bit different for beyond the Message. So if you're listening to this, the week leading up to Easter this, check out and just have on your mind and on your mind that on Thursday at 8:20, we're going to be filming a live beyond the Message after our Thursday night Easter service. Typically, we do a Q and A. Right. And it's a really great Q and A. Yeah. Um, and Pastor Zach will be a part of that, um, with Jimmy and myself. So if you want to jump in and join us. We don't know what's going to happen. That's live. Kind of the fun of it, but live and with an audience there. So come and join us. Um, well, to start things off, it is Easter week leading up to it, real quick. Easy icebreaker today. What is your Easter candy of choice? Think Cadbury. Reese's Peanut Butter Eggs. Peeps Jelly beans. I would like to go on record. Jelly beans. Who if you say jelly beans, you gotta podcast. Get out. I think Easter candy is highly overrated. You always. I knew you were gonna have some sort of hot take on this. That's not a hot take. That is objective truth. Hot takes are things that are exaggerated. This is objective. You're not a candy person. Yeah, but name an Easter candy that you would choose at any other time of the year. Besides a Reese's Peanut butter is a Cadbury eat. But you eat a Peanut Cadbury Eggs are not. But Cadbury eggs. No, the eggs and the cups are different. The eggs are better. I don't think the proportion is. And there's a consistency. And if you push them, they're soft in the middle. I feel very good. What about the like Christmas peanut butter trees compared to the eggs and the heart? Those go all together different than the cups because for sure, without doubt, I think, uh, there's more Peanut butter in them. There is. Yeah, but I just. Peanut butter substance, whatever that is in there, that's not Easter candy. That's like regular candy. Redeployed, shaved, like an egg. You're objectively wrong. I don't think so. They don't call me Mrs. Dye Candy for nothing. You have to trust me on this one. There we go. You have to trust me. I didn't know that. Mark, what about you? The, uh, peanut butter eggs. Love those. I do like the peanut butter eggs. They're good. I'm just saying I don't understand what the hype is about. No candy for you, then. I probably won't eat any candy next week, and I won't feel bad about it. Well, this was pretty. Well, I'm here. Jimmy's here. Welcome, Jimmy. Always bringing us up. This week. Okay, um, well, this week I just got kicked off the live podcast. The live podcast? No, you'll be there. Okay. This week, uh, we hear from Pastor Joe. It was great. Again, another, um, I am statement. And just, I don't know, there are a lot of things and you guys can remind me of this, but a lot of things this week that I felt like were basic things that I know that just struck me, uh, in a new way. I don't know. But this had a lot of those in there. But again, a reminder that, like, even these I am statements, this entire series is what Jesus is saying about himself. And that's just pretty powerful in and of itself. And so this one is I am the way, the truth and the life, John 14, 6, 7. But to set things up, because, again, this is another thing that was a wow moment for me. The context of this and of when this was said and how this was said, and kind of all of that context was just a really good reminder to me. So it's the Last Supper's taking place. All sorts of things Jesus has been saying about people betraying him, denying him, um, really shaking up kind of the probably what. The feelings and what these disciples were feeling, feeling very unsteady. And then Jesus is telling them, hey, I'm going away. Don't let your heart be troubled. I'm going away. I'm going to prepare a place for you. And then Thomas says, hey, we don't know where you're going. How can we know the way? So here's Thomas asking this question, really probably expecting to get, like, a map, an answer, location, how to get there. And Jesus says, I am, um, the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to The Father, except through me. Um, so Pastor Joe's points in that we're really, again, sticking to the basics here. Jesus the way, Jesus the truth, and Jesus the life. Um, so, yeah, just to kick things off, I thought it was pretty. Just a really good reminder that the setting for which this was said at the Last Supper, when they were really probably very shaken and unsteady and unsure of things right before, again, leading into Jesus betrayal and then crucifixion. Um, but how do you know? Thomas was asking Jesus expecting to get the direction, steps and location, and instead he got the answer of a person. Do you feel like as Christians, us around this table, we do this some type live life kind of trying to fulfill some sort of map or getting to a location instead of just looking to Jesus? What does that look like for you guys? Any thoughts on that? Well, first of all, like, I think I like. I like, kind of like Thomas in this story. Uh, he's being. I know Thomas sometimes get bad, gets a bad rap. They call him doubting Thomas, so on and so forth. Uh, he might just be critical thinking Thomas, I don't know. But, um, Jimmy relates to Thomas. Jimmy relates to Thomas because he's asking what I feel is a legitimate question because they've been following Jesus for a long time. And he says, I'm going away. I think I'd be like, okay, where are you going? How do I get there? Where do you want me to go? And so I think, like, first of all, I think that's a really good question. I relate with it. And I think, uh. But I do think the idea of, uh, at least for myself, wanting to have a formulaic kind of relationship with God is appealing. If I know, like, I give this input and I'm going to get that output, I do this, this is going to like. I like logical lines. And I think Jesus makes it clear here that, um, he came like, as a person for us to be personally involved in our lives, not as a set of instructions to follow, that if we follow them, will and we all, like. I always long for steps to lead to progression, to lead to something that then feels like completion. Right. Like a plan. Like a plan. Right. I've got this and I can progress through it. And then, then that means I'm successful when I get there. And like, this stirs that up for sure in a beautiful way. If we can truly trust Jesus as him being a person, at being complete in him. But it kind of tears apart our desire to sometimes have those steps in progression. But yeah, I Don't know anything else on that one. Stacy, I love that you talked about just the confusion kind of the cloud around the. What's happening. Yeah. I think we talk often about the disciples had no see. As far as we understand, the disciples had no idea. Really. Is this going to be some kind of revolution? Are we going somewhere where we're going to reign? Yeah, um, that's a good point because we have the benefit of hindsight. Absolutely. In this story, when Jesus says, I'm the way and the truth and the life, we're like, well, yeah, of course he's going to go. He's going to die. He's going to be raised from the dead. Yeah, right. How come you guys can't pick up on this? They're sitting there in a room. They have no idea what he's thinking, what's next week look like? And they have no idea that next week's gonna look like death and resurrection. And then what does that mean for them? And ultimately what does it mean for us? I love that you talked about the basics. And I was thinking this week it is, it's foundational. I mean, Jimmy, you said it. We're so familiar and so steeped in it. But the whole idea that life is not what the next six months for the disciples was going to look like. Life is that life can go on forever. Right. And Jesus blows that wide open. Yeah. So it's remarkable. Yeah, that's pretty wild. Um, okay, quick discussion on. You know, in this statement, Jesus is saying, I am the way. Um, and I wanted to just compare and contrast for us as Christians and then thinking about non Christians as well, how we kind of can treat Jesus as a way instead of the way. Um, so let's just start there. For Christians, I think, how do we sometimes even trip this up? Um, and instead of it being an absolute of he is the only way, sometimes treat him like he is part of the way or a way. Well, I think that even goes to the question you're asking before because, um, for me, I would say, of course he's the way. But when you look at my daily life, I want to plan. I want a plan. And when I have a plan, the danger is I fall into self sufficiency. I fall into my own performance is what gives me worth. And so then those two ideas are contrasted. Right. They don't fit together anymore because my worth is coming from, um, what I'm doing. Am I being successful versus do I really believe that my identity is found in Christ? Yeah, it's like There's a difference between your stated way, which I think everybody around this table and any Christian would, would say, I believe is the way when they talk about, you know, why would God accept me? They'll say, because of Jesus. But then I think subconsciously, for, uh, myself at least, I can stack up my wins and say, actually, those are why God would approve of me or accept me. And I think this flies obviously right in the face of, of what Jesus is saying here, where he's saying you, you. And that goes to the analogy that Joe used later in the sermon, which I thought was really good. Just the, uh, you know, the golfer who was playing in the Big Ten Championship and was ready to get his PGA Tour card and also all of those things, and then finding out that there's just another level that you can never reach. And I think, um, that's part of. Part of having a relationship with Jesus is allowing him to reveal to you again and again and again, no matter what level you think you are on, you're not anywhere near the level you need to be in order to be accepted by God on the basis of your own merits. And so that's why we need him to be the way. There's also the other side of it, of he's the way over here. But this area of my life, I don't want to surrender to him. This area I'm not willing to give up to Him. And so then do you really believe that? I think there's the horror too, of the fact that there are people that don't find the way. And I, uh, think that the whole idea of, uh. It's incredible that we have had the opportunity to know Jesus as well as we have personally and corporately. But I think the times that I want to move away from the idea of, hey, can there be another way is when I think about the fact that there are people who are lost, and that's such a hard thing. So, uh, I think that's what non Christians will struggle with, with this passage is this idea that there's only one way and it's through Jesus. But that also, that is a. That's a challenge to us as Christians. You know, do we actually live in a way that aligns with what we believe, which is that Jesus is the only way to God. If we, you know, I think sometimes we can be logically inconsistent in our way of living. Yeah, Uh, I used to tell the guys at Mens frat that we have to be careful with this passage because actually, if we get into the Way thinking, then we abandon what we believe about God. Uh, God is God the Father, God the Son, Jesus and God the Holy Spirit. That is God. So if anyone is ever going to encounter God truly, they cannot do it logically without encountering Jesus Christ. So it's not a path that we believe ultimately that via Jesus you get to God, it's that Jesus is God. This passage is part of what helps us, uh, shape our trinitarian theology when you think about it. Right? Yeah. Um, yeah, well, and I wanted to talk about non Christians with this because I think if, culturally speaking, I think the absoluteness of this statement is what flies in the face of people's just subjective. I can choose what I want my truth to be. And the reality that a way is, makes it is super easy for people to grab onto. But the way is saying like, no, Jesus is the absolute. I know I might have been Pastor Joe or someone that even, or maybe it was even Jim College, but had reminded me that like, you know, when we're talking to non Christians and there feels like any offense to this, like, and we just say, hey, we want you to look at Jesus like this is what Jesus says about himself, not what I'm saying. You know, it's saying like, keep looking at Jesus though, because he is the one who said this. So if this is true and you see the beauty of who he is in all these other ways, then you can't deny this part of what he's saying about him. I would add to that too. You know, if you're sensing discomfort with this idea of Jesus being the exclusive only way to God, that any claim of truth about spiritual reality is by its very nature an exclusive claim of understanding spiritual reality. So it's just as an exclusive, as exclusive of a claim to say there are many ways to God by saying that, you are excluding other claims. So I think it's not a matter of whether it's exclusive or inclusive. Anything that anytime you say, I understand fully what is true about God and how we relate to him, you're making an exclusive claim. It's just a matter of which one is more coherent, has more evidence behind it, and so on and so forth. I really like the way that Pastor Joe talked about this. He's talking about when he's up on the mountain with Jeremy and he was just so desperate for the way down and recognizing there was only one way down. And so when Jeremy is like, this is the way, that wasn't offensive to him because he realized without that way, I'm pretty Lost. And I heard an illustration that stuck with me of this idea of like if you have cancer or you have like a deadly disease and you go to the doctor and the doctor says there is one cure that's not exclusive, you would be so happy for the one cure. If there is a cure. If there is a cure and this is the way that you get to life, that would be a relief to you. But you'd have to recognize that without that cure, cure your, you know, where are you headed? And I think that's where it gets lost. Right. We non Christians don't recognize that without that cure, what's the alternative? Right. Well, and ah, that I think it can kind of lead into what I want to talk about a little bit next because it is about recognizing our need. And with our need comes kind of the truth and the beauty of that. So let's take a minute and just watch um, a clip, listen to a clip, uh, from Pastor Joe, um, and then we'll chat a little more. Listen, if you think you are good enough to play in the pga, you got to play against a PGA player. You can't just play with the foursome that you usually play with. If you want to find out whether you are good enough to make it to God on your record, look at Jesus. Jesus says I am the truth. You want to know what you're really like? Compare yourself to me. Okay, so in this point, as Pastor Joe even elaborated more on that, I think uh, he was making the point of saying looking at Jesus and looking at yourself, you're gonna see the truth of who you are the more you examine who Jesus is. So I just wanted to start by asking the question again. And Holly, to your point, it's it kind of if you are not yet a Christian, like in looking at Jesus, hopefully will reveal to you your need and the beauty of going like, yes, I need the way, because there is no other way. But how has looking at Jesus shown you truth about yourself? How has that and uh, revealed things about how far you are and your need for a savior? Pretty basic, but pretty deep. Guys. Mark, jump on in. Wow. I can see it. Well, I mean my mind just took off. Um, the very fact that Jesus reveals God, reveals holiness, reveals perfection, reveals kindness and mercy. I mean it doesn't take me long to look at all and go, holy smokes. I am such a selfish, um, self centered and that's everything that Jesus exposes about me and the depth of my own sin and the need for a savior. Um, I love how Holly said Uh, the idea that if you can really understand yourself as spiritually sick, then, uh, any kind of solution, any kind of cure is what I want. Right. Yeah. And I think as Christians, it's not like a one time thing, right? So it's not like we looked at Jesus, we saw our state, we recognized, you know, that he was the Savior, and we moved on. It's like something that I feel like I need to do daily, just because it needs my perspective, my focus, it automatically just starts to slowly shift, like even just one day. And so every morning it's like this. Continually refocus so that I can see clearly, like, who is he? Who am I? You know, where's my identity? All of that starts to fall into place. There's so many things that come to mind, Holly, even to what both of you guys said. I jumped to thinking about like, the Beatitudes and how opposite they are of. And that's Matthew 5, right? Matthew 5 and 6, um, and that Sermon on the Mount. But how opposite everything Jesus is teaching about is. It's so counter to what I think our culture, what we know, what we as human beings default to. That just, I don't, uh, I mean, uh, each one of those, I think, reveals how backwards I am in thinking my way of success, my way of fruitfulness should look like this. And actually it's the opposite of that. And I can tell when I'm not doing it because all of a sudden my daily life, I start getting like, prickly. I get offended more, I'm caring more. You know, all of those things start to stack up and you can recognize like, oh, wait, that's a great question for everybody is going like, what do you sense at times? Can you have triggers inside of yourself where you realize, oh, wait a minute, this is my sin. Nature is coming up. This is why I need Jesus. Yeah, I was gonna say, I think for me at least, has to become a discipline to cultivate a sense of my own, uh, sinfulness, my own inadequacy. Because I think, uh, what happens with me is I'm like the golfer who plays one round with a PGA guy and he's like, man, I'm not very good. But then I go back to the range and I'm hitting great shots. And um, man, I'm like, actually, maybe I m played bad that day and I didn't play. Now I don't golf at all. So I don't even know what I'm talking about here. But you know, I'm just kind of playing at the analogy And I think that's part of the daily discipline of spending time with Jesus is it kind of pricks a little hole in that balloon so that it goes back down. It's like I tend to think I'm a pretty good person. And I think, uh, the gospel flies in the face of that in, in hard ways, but also in really good ways. It's like, you know, I was just, as you guys were talking, I was thinking about how, you know, I think I'm a good person. I'm honest, I'm high integrity, I'm whatever. Until it's 2am and one of my kids comes running down the hall and then I'm pretending to be asleep so that I don't have to deal with, you know, it's like that, that, that in and of itself is a wow, what a terrible person. Uh, and I think, you know, it's just, I think a discipline of cultivating dissatisfaction with yourself and understand, comparing yourself to what the Bible says, to what Jesus says about who you're supposed to be. And uh, and then allowing, instead of, you know, allowing that to beat you down, to use that to run to him, to say, this is why I needed a way. This is why I needed you to be the way, the truth and life. It's true that no one comes to the Father but by you, but thanks be to God, you went to the cross and you made that way possible so that I don't have to do this on my own. Conviction is a great thing. It shouldn't lead you to shame, but guilt a little bit is okay if it makes you run to Jesus and to realize it's appropriate, you know. Yeah, I try to stay pretty close. The parable of the ungrateful servant. The whole idea of, uh, having so much debt that there's no possibility of ever climbing out. I'm like, on which day would you stop being grateful for that? And I think that's the part of the, uh, posture my heart has to be in. So we've touched on Jesus, the way, Jesus, the truth. And just to wrap things up, um, the last point, which was again really great, is Jesus is saying, and I am the life. Um, and there's an exercise that Pastor Joe kind of mentioned, like, hey, what would you put on a piece of paper to say, this is what would make a full life? And I think we all could do that. I might even ask you guys, like, hey, what are some of those things? And then how does that take away from what Jesus statement is saying? I mean, I can start you know, my family, my kids, uh, success in a job, and, um, you know, having enough money to be. To do whatever I want, to do what I want to do, and to buy the things I want and to, you know, and. And. But really, again, we could start to see how that strips away, takes away from the beauty of who Jesus is. And that, you know, even just if we look at what Jesus says about money, like it's better to be generous, to give away, he's going to provide for every need. We shouldn't even worry about a single thing. And how much does my need for financial freedom or whatever actually is, like, kind of enslaves me. Right? So, I mean, I. We. Could somebody else jump in. I could keep going. I remember, I. I distinctly remember there was a couple a long time ago that attended our church, and they came in and sat down, and they weren't able to have kids. And they said, why would God withhold a child from us? And they ended up having children. And they came in and said, why would God give us children like this? And I think it's the classic example. Well, I think Joe said the old saying, when the gods wanted to punish us, they gave us what we wanted. And I think that's a reminder that, uh, the whole definition of life is in Jesus. And Jesus said, if you want to gain your life, you end up losing it. And it's the whole countercultural thing you mentioned, right, Stacy? Yeah. This makes me think of two things. The first is, um, you know, if you look at people who have the things that you want that you think are going to make you happy, you should ask yourself, do they seem happy? Like, uh, you know, the wealthiest people that, you know, does it seem like, you know, you might think. I think you can think about all of the benefits of whatever that thing is without ever considering the costs or if it actually lives up. You know, I remember seeing, uh, When I was doing, uh, student ministry here, I used to use this clip all the time, but there was a clip of Tom Brady. He's in an interview, and, uh, the interviewer is like, uh, hey, so you have everything. You're a Super bowl champion, you're married to a supermodel, you make hundreds of millions of dollars. And Tom Brady answers saying, like, basically, I'm dissatisfied. There's got to be more than. Than what I've got. And I think, you know, I just. I think we. That's what happens when you take something that is never meant to be the way, and you make it the way. Uh, it just Seems like, you know, we weren't. We weren't made for that. And I think, on the other hand, uh, I think part of what Jesus challenges us to do by saying he is the way is to consider that, you know, maybe those things, uh, are backward desires. And. And what we might find is that the grass is not greener and the fence, where you. Over the fence, where you make more money, where you have the job you want, where you have the. You know, the family you want, you have whatever. Uh, and that actually the grass. The grass is green wherever he is. And so pursuing him, even if it means setting aside career aspirations or financial aspirations or family configuration or relationships, it could be worth it. Yeah, that's well said. It's funny that you brought up infertility, Mark. My story is one of, like, a long road of infertility. Um, and it was really hard, a lot of losses, and I feel like I really struggled at the. At the. In the middle of that of saying, like, I don't understand, Lord, like, if you loved me, why would you not give me this good thing that my heart desires? Um, and it was really hard. And, you know, looking back now, kind of being on the other side of it and being able to see how the Lord has grafted my family and all the way he worked in it, it's actually so interesting because, of course, my family is a blessing for sure. But what I think is the truer blessing is the way that the Lord worked in my heart during that time, the way that he worked in my marriage during that time, um, that I wouldn't have without that long road of heartbreak. But at the time, I would have thought, like, a more full life. Looks like you giving me a part of the point of what Jesus saying is that he himself is the blessing. Right. That's what you found? Yeah. I think Zach might have mentioned this in a Q and A, but. So. And this is a while ago, but I saw a talk with him. There was a guy, uh, who's a pastor in Texas, and he was talking about the last year of his life. And in the last year of his life, he had seen, like, he had seen his wife get very ill. He himself had experienced really debilitating disease. You know, that, uh, this incredibly terrible year. And at the. You know, what he said after that will echo in my head for a long time. He was like, I feel bad for you who are sitting in this audience because you have not had. Your wife had cancer or had. You have not experienced the things that I've experienced, because in those things. I felt so much closeness and intimacy with Jesus like I've never experienced in my entire life. And I think that just drove home the point to me that like whatever blessing we think we like, we have a concept of what we think it would mean for us to have a full life, to be blessed. That's the piece of paper analogy. The truth of the matter is that Jesus Himself is the blessing that he's made available to us through his life, death and resurrection. Thanks so much for tuning in to beyond the Message. Before you head out, make sure to subscribe so that you don't miss next week's content. And all week long we want to provide you opportunities to grow right where you are. So check out out our YouTube channel, our app, for more opportunities to catch content from Christ Community Chapel. Thanks so much for tuning in and we'll see you next time.