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We created Juicy Bits because we wanted to continue the conversations that we start out on the trail and on the chair lift. Hosted by our CEO Jen Gurecki and Ambassador Jillian Raymond, they talk candidly about everything from dude soup, to sex, to politics, to equity in the outdoors. We occasionally (read: frequently) drop F-bombs, interview some of the most interesting people in the outdoors and beyond, and say things that many of us think but don’t feel comfortable saying out loud. If you are easily offended or looking for something that is G Rated, this is not the podcast for you. But if you love truth-telling and irreverence, get ready to laugh, cry, and maybe pee your pants a little bit.
Hello, and welcome. I'm Jillian Raymond, the cocreator of Juicy Bits and a Coalition Snow ambassador.
Jen Gurecki:And I'm Jen Gurecki, your cohost and the CEO of Coalition Snow.
Jillian Raymond:For those of you who are new, get ready to laugh, cry, and maybe pee your pants
Jen Gurecki:a little. Juicy Bits is about taking the conversations that we start on the chairlift and at the trailhead and bringing them to you to explore alternative narratives that challenge the status quo about what it means to be a modern woman in the outdoors.
Jillian Raymond:Grab your helmet because sometimes it's a bumpy ride. FYI friends, this podcast is for mature audiences, so you've been warned. Let's get to work and juice the patriarchy.
Jen Gurecki:Hey, everyone. Jen Garecki here. Jillian is not joining us on this episode. I know you're all very sad, but we have an incredible special guest. Can't wait to talk more to Christine Reed.
Jen Gurecki:I did just have to say to her, like, can I ask you all the questions that I wanna ask you about your life for juicy bits, or do we need to have, like, a pre conversation? Because everything I'm about to ask her, I'm really very, very curious about. And Christine and I actually met at the swell women's outdoor festival back in when was that? September?
Christine Reed:That sounds right. Yeah.
Jen Gurecki:September. So there was this weekend. We met. We talked about writing books. We talked about boys.
Jen Gurecki:We talked about OnlyFans. There's a lot of things that were discussed. Since then, I've read one of her books. I'm gonna also talk about that. And, we had to just record this episode a juicy bit.
Jen Gurecki:So before I get into it more, Christine, welcome. Tell everyone a little bit about who you are and what what you do.
Christine Reed:I'm Christine Reed. I'm an author. I'm a hiker, I guess, I would say. Kind of a kind of a professional hiker. I live in a van.
Christine Reed:I travel around. I do book tour events, and I just, like, enjoy the outdoors. And I suppose I'm looking for some kind of purpose in life along the way. We'll see. Either we find it or we just don't.
Christine Reed:You know? Whatever.
Jen Gurecki:No one knows? Well, I mean, isn't that why you do what you do, though? Okay. In reading your book, which I loved, by the way. I haven't told you this.
Jen Gurecki:I read your book. I know. And and for real, I don't need to, like, flow compliments that aren't deserved. Title of the book, will you tell everyone the title of the book that is released that they can buy?
Christine Reed:Yeah. Alone in Wonderland is my first book.
Jen Gurecki:Yeah. So there's a new book we'll talk about later. But Alone in Wonderland, which is, a memoir about, that really kind of goes back and forth between, like, multiple hiking trips and this relationship with your parents and sort of these different relationships that you were navigating and super fun to read. I don't normally read books quickly because I like to read before I go to bed, and then I'll read, like, 4 pages and I fall asleep. But yours, I would read, like, 15 pages before I fell asleep.
Jen Gurecki:That's how good it was. There were so many things that you wrote about where I was like, oh my god. This woman is so much like me. And I say that because I'm older, so I get to be the first one. I'm the first one.
Christine Reed:It's so I thought that, like, when we met, I just, like, heard you say things to other people, and I was like, yeah. We're the same.
Jen Gurecki:Yep. There's a lot. I was like, oh my god. So I don't know. It was just the the book was absolutely incredible.
Jen Gurecki:And you're writing another book, which I really want I wanna hear more about that. But for people who have not read your first book, do you wanna give everyone, like, sort of what because it's not like you had written lots of other books. You're self published. You like, you did this yourself, and the quality of your writing is exceptional for not being, like, a trained writer and not have written up like, out the gate, you can't you you crushed. So can you just tell everybody a little bit about the premise of the book?
Jen Gurecki:And I think, like, why do you think the words flowed so easily for you? Or at least they read as if they they were easy.
Christine Reed:Yeah. The book I mean, I like to say that it's a book about backpacking. It sort of narratively follows my hike on the Wonderland Trail, but it's really a book about independence and our relationship to independence. I suppose my relationship to independence, sort of throughout my twenties and coming into this backpacking trip, which I took when I was 28. And I I like to say, like, it's not really it's not like I went on a journey and I started in one place and I ended in another place, and I was like, and then all my problems were solved because I went on this backpacking trip and I, like, learned, you know, the answers to the questions.
Christine Reed:It's really more of an exploration of my relationship with independence over the course of that time, and I think it's just sort of like a raw, like, this is what I was going through kind of memoir. I think the reason oh, gosh. Like, I'm like, the words flowed. I've I'm a huge reader. I probably read close to a 100 books a year, and I think that my writing ability sort of just stems from, like, when you consume a ton of words, then you have a lot of to, like, to go on in terms of writing.
Christine Reed:And I think when I decided to write the book, I had a clear idea of what I wanted the book to be about because I was really struggling with my idea of independence at that time. And I sort of went on this backpacking trip with all these questions of, like, why am I alone? And how come I can't find a relationship? And how come no nobody wants to be around me? And it was a lot of, like, kinda self defeating thought loops that I was stuck in, and I was hoping that backpacking was gonna, like, help me kind of kick out of that.
Christine Reed:And then it was one of those moments where, like, on the trail, every single person I talked to was just like, why are you alone? And, like, aren't you afraid to be alone? You know, it's just one of those, like, universe reflecting back moments where it was like the questions I've been asking myself are now being posed to me, like, literally by every person that I And so it's one of those moments where I was like, okay. I think that I'm not the only person struggling with these ideas. I started asking other people if they were lonely while I was on the trail and sort of just, like, seeing what people said to that and realized, I think this is, like, kind of a universal experience that we just don't talk about very much.
Christine Reed:And so when I sat down to write the book, I wanted I knew what the book that I wished someone else had written was, and so I just tried to write that book.
Jen Gurecki:So either at the end of this hiking trip or after writing the book, did you answer any of these questions?
Christine Reed:I mean, I do think that there was, like, an admission of self sabotage that needed to happen for me to, like, move forward. I was certainly a person who was moving through the world trying to assert my independence in all possible ways and kinda had a, like, a, I'm a strong independent woman. I don't need no man attitude. But I also, like, desperately wanted to be loved and, like, be in partnership, and I think that is core to just, like, the human existence that we, like, want to find people to surround ourselves with and, like, to feel loved and cared for and appreciated. And we can't do that if we are also pretending that we don't need anybody.
Christine Reed:So there was I think through the process of writing the book, I was forced to admit that I was experiencing both of those things and that they were impacting each other. But I definitely think that was through the book and not necessarily as much as through the hike.
Jen Gurecki:I think, like, certainly, there's a lot of truth to that. Right? That, like, we do wanna be loved. We wanna be cared for. My experience, certainly, I've self sabotaged many things many things.
Jen Gurecki:And, also, I have found that when you show up as a strong independent woman, men in particular, and also just I mean, I guess people, don't actually think that you need anything. They don't think you need to be cared for. Like, there is this archetype of the strong, independent woman that I don't think we created. We, being women, I don't think we created this archetype of what it means to be a strong woman. I think men created it, and I think that we've allowed it to continue.
Jen Gurecki:And I think that it, like, I think it serves men in a certain way. It serves white women in a certain way. Ultimately, I don't think anybody actually really, really loves a strong independent woman, and that's why this fabrication had to come come to be. But my experience is it doesn't even matter all the words that will come out of my mouth when I talk about love and caring and partnership. And because I operate as an independent, self sufficient woman, people just think I need nothing.
Jen Gurecki:They think I and that I'll get over everything. Nothing bothers me. Everything's fine. And I'm like, did you literally just fucking listen to anything that came out of my mouth over? No.
Jen Gurecki:So was it primarily that you were sabotaging these relationships, or do you think that it's nearly impossible to get outside of this trap of what it means to be independent?
Christine Reed:I mean, I think those things are fueling each other. Right? Like, I think my misconceptions and, like, social expectations of what it means to be independent, they were affecting the way that I was presenting myself in the world because I was, like, trying to meet the standard that had been given to me through, like, my parents and also society expectations of women born in the late eighties and early nineties like that. I just feel like it's I mean, every generation of women is, like, facing some differentiated identity around independence, and that's something that's been going on for, you know, generations in perpetuity. But certainly, like, my mom's idea of independence when she was 18, 19, 20 years old, meaning my dad getting married at 21 is very different than the idea of independence that she fostered in me, now a 33 year old single person.
Jen Gurecki:Do you feel like after writing the book, do you feel more comfortable with your independence, or is it something that you're still struggling with?
Christine Reed:Yeah. It's definitely different. Like, I have I have for sure, like, moved through a blockage that I was experiencing at that time. It's interesting how, like, emotionally and mentally we go through loops throughout our life. And I'm actually, like you know, I was writing the book.
Christine Reed:I met someone. I was in a 4 year relationship that I would call very successful but has now ended. And so I'm, like, single again for the first time in a long time, and I'm definitely kind of revisiting some of those ideas and reassessing my feelings about them and, like, what I think I want in partnership going forward. But I feel like I can do that in a much healthier way having moved through, like, what I went through at that time.
Jen Gurecki:I say this with all the love and respect that the question could be asked with because, again, we're very similar. So there's no judgment here at all. Do you think it's possible to find the partnership that you want when you choose to lead a life where you live out of your van and you do not participate in normal daily society, which tends to support partnerships in a way that the lifestyle that you have chosen does not?
Christine Reed:I yeah. It's a problem. It really is. Because it's like you either have to find someone who is also doing that, who is also living on the road, who is also a 100% mobile and free and can go wherever they wanna go whenever they want to and is going to choose to use that freedom to be with you. And that is not an easy thing to find.
Christine Reed:It's not an easy thing to find, but it's also not an easy thing to find at the pace which I move through the world. It is really rare for me to be somewhere for longer than a couple weeks or a month, and that's not enough time to, like, build the foundation of a relationship in which one person would say, yeah. Let me follow you to your next place. And especially with the life, like, because of book tour and the scheduling that I have to do and then maintain, it's like, I know where I'm gonna be in May. I know where I'm gonna be in June.
Christine Reed:I know where I'll be in July. And those things are not changing. Like, I've I've committed to stuff. And so it would have to be this other person saying, yes. I'm gonna come along on your journey, or me saying, let me pencil you in 6 months from now.
Christine Reed:And, yeah, it's it's certainly been a problem for the last 6 months since my, you know, my partner that I was with for 4 years, he was Denver based, and I sort of based my life around returning to Denver on a regular basis. And we worked that out, and it it worked really well for us. But since then, I'm like, okay. I, like, dated a guy who does the digital nomad thing, and he's all over the world, which doesn't really work for me. And then someone who's, like, very stationary and about, like, applying for med school, and I'm like, that doesn't really work for me.
Christine Reed:Yeah. So it's it is really, like, like trying to find a kind of classic partnership in the sense that most people in our culture would think of it that fits into the life that I've built for myself is not has not thus far been a very successful endeavor.
Jen Gurecki:Well, it might not be. It might it might not be. Like, I for me, I don't, you know, I don't live out of my van, but I travel quite a bit. I have this whole other life in Kenya. Every time I go to Kenya, everything explodes.
Jen Gurecki:It does not matter. It does not matter how much care and consideration is put into a relationship leading up to me departing for Kenya for those 6 weeks. It doesn't matter what I do during that time there. It doesn't even matter if somebody comes to visit me there. It is just that just every year that I'm gonna be gone for, like, 6 to 8 weeks, and I'm on a different continent with a different time change, that is enough that I've I've never even, I mean, I've had certain relationships withstand that, but certainly not since COVID, not since the pandemic.
Jen Gurecki:And I think that that I mean, I've been I've been this is complete tangent, but I don't think people are well. I don't think people have been doing well. Roxanne Gay just wrote about this in her newsletter today, talking about the Elmo meme that, like, wow. This struck a nerve. No one's actually doing okay.
Jen Gurecki:So I just and for me
Christine Reed:Wait. And people were surprised by that. That's the part that blew my mind was people were like, oh my god. People aren't okay. And I was like, where have you been?
Jen Gurecki:Yeah. Let me tell you. As a 46 year old woman who is not in a monogamous committed relationship, I will tell you people are so fucked up. People are so fucked up because I am interacting with people in a very different way than, like, partnered or married people are when they have this, like, bubble. Right?
Jen Gurecki:I have been saying for years, oh, we're not okay. We're not good. Things are not good at all. Anyhoo, I digress. I'm 46 or 33.
Jen Gurecki:This is why I say I did it first. Okay? But but it's almost like one of the things that I've thought a lot about is when we when we make these decisions about, like, leading just a very different life, we we may never we may never have some of the things we want. And isn't that life? Right?
Jen Gurecki:Like, people make decisions, and they don't get everything that they want. Some people settle down. They are in, you know, long term, monogamous they're married, and they're not necessarily satisfied with that. They long for independence, for freedom, for, like, a, like, feeling of, this, like, sense of joy and excitement. Like, it is there's concessions to every single thing that you do, and I believe part of getting older is recognizing that, you know, I've made decisions that this is what I do.
Jen Gurecki:This is where I'm at. Give up the dream that you can have it all. And I do talk to women about that quite a bit, and I sound awful. I sound awful when I'm like, you can't have it all. Don't believe them when they tell you you because I really don't.
Jen Gurecki:I think you have to make choices and you have to be okay with those choices. And for women like you and myself, we make choices that are so far outside of the status quo that our lives are really, really different from the majority of people in our lives, from the people who we call family and friends. Like, we're the outliers, and I don't know if that ever will ever ever change.
Christine Reed:Yeah. Yeah. I definitely have thought about that a lot in terms of, like, I'm I'm kinda buckling my seat belt right now to go back on book tour for the next foreseeable 6 months or so. And just like, okay. Like, I'm just not probably gonna meet someone.
Christine Reed:I'm not gonna have that as, like, a side focus in my life, which I would say it generally is. And you know what? Also, my best friend texted me the other day, and she was like, I know I'm, like, obsessed with my boyfriend right now, but you are my person, and, like, fuck him. So, you know, like, I I have, like, a core foundational relationship in my life with my best friend. And we both are polyamorous.
Christine Reed:We both sometimes have multiple partners, and we still, like, prioritize our friendship relationship over other relationships. You know what I mean? Like, I do when you talk about partnership, like, I have a partner in life, and it's Lindy. Like, even though I would also love to have a romantic partner in my life and, like, have that thing too. I'm not it's not necessarily like a gaping void to me in a way that it used to be.
Jen Gurecki:Well and I have the same thing. These I call it, like, my committed non romantic partnerships with my friends that are so important that I invest heaps of time into, And I like, again, I have the strongest support system, the most amazing people in my life who are not my intimate partners, never have been, never will be, and it's pretty remarkable how you feel full at the end of the day with that.
Christine Reed:Yeah. And I do think I mean, we I romanticize is a funny word to use for this, but we over romanticize, like, that romantic partnership and that, like, soulmate kind of, like, you you get married, you have kids, you build a family. This person is your whole existence. And culturally, like, we've been fed that line to the point that I think people forget to nourish their non romantic partnerships and friendships and concentrate on having a support system rather than a support buddy, that is important. And I would say people who have wonderful romantic can still have a gaping void where there should be, like, multiple other people supporting you in your life.
Jen Gurecki:Yep. Well, what's the new book about?
Christine Reed:The new book is called Blood, Sweat, Tears, and it is a short story collection by me and 25 other women plus about the experience of being in a female body on trail. So it encompasses hiking, backpacking, through hiking, and running. Oh, and there's also a couple mountaineering stories, but it's all very much about, like, the body existence on trail.
Jen Gurecki:Why do you wanna write this book? Not only write, but bring together all these other voices. Why why this? Why in the way that you're doing it?
Christine Reed:It was a bit of a journey. I was trying to write a second memoir for a while, and I really wanted to write about my relationship to body as a person with chronic illness and a person who has struggled with eating disorder and sort of how the trail has helped hurt further that journey over the course of, like, the 8 years that I've been hiking. And that was a story that I I still would like to tell at some point, but I think that I'm still a little bit, like, too in it to be able to write that story. And so I I also had had the idea for a while to do, like, a women's collection. And last year at Trail Days, I was talking about it to another author, and I was like, oh, I just don't know how, like, the contracts and, like, buying people's stories and, like, putting it together.
Christine Reed:Like, it just seems like kind of a a big deal and a hassle, and I don't really know how to go about that. And she was like, ugh, that's, like, such a small thing to let stand in your way. And I was like, okay. So I just, like, went home and immediately did it. So I launched it launched submissions last summer right after Trail Days.
Christine Reed:And I think, you know, there was a lot of different things at play, which is, like, one, I think a lot of people's stories are worth telling and worth hearing, but a lot of people don't know how to put that out into the world. And a lot of these people who submitted stories for the book, like, would never have written and published a story if they had not been invited to do so. And so I thought that that would be an interesting contribution to the space to just say, like, people who would not otherwise write your story, write a story and send it to me, which was, like, a really cool experience, especially reading stories from people who would not consider themselves writers. I think also when I was on book tour kind of in, like, 2022, I did several events in, like, women's only spaces, like Swell and some others like that. And it just seems like anytime we get a group of female bodied people together, we just all wanna talk about our periods, and we don't really have a lot of spaces where we can do that.
Christine Reed:And so it was like, I did enough events and also just looking at platforms online, like Facebook groups for hiking, and people are like, what do I do about my period? Right? Like, everyone just wants to talk about their periods. And so I was like, you know what? We just need a book where we can all just, like, tell period stories, and then that content can be out there and people can read it.
Christine Reed:Because I think of all the things that are holding women back from doing big hikes and things, like, period is definitely on the list. Like, there are people who schedule their lives around it and would not go backpacking on their period. That was, like, one of the things I kinda wanted to tackle with the book too just to be like, we are in our bodies, our bodies are doing body things, we can still live our lives, we can still go on adventures, we can talk about it also. We don't have to pretend we don't have a period and then just, like, act like everything is totally fine and normal when we're, like, bleeding out into our hiking pants. Like, having to go, like, rinse our underwear out because we had a spill or whatever.
Christine Reed:Like, there's just things that I'm like, we're not talking about these things, and I think more people should know that this is happening and that it's fine.
Jen Gurecki:Next time you ask people to contribute, I wanna write about getting older because I don't think about my period. I mean, I don't have months of an IUD. I don't think I'm going through menopause yet. I'm just pretending like it's never gonna happen. Okay?
Jen Gurecki:Like, if I just act like it's never gonna happen. And it is so fucking weird when your body doesn't do what you want it to do because of your age and you know it and you forget your age until you look in the mirror or you get into downward facing dog, that's another really fun time to be like, oh, look. Nothing's sperm anymore. Oh, chokes on me. You know?
Jen Gurecki:Or, like, you forgot to moisturize that day, and you're like, don't leave the house. Or you're in Japan like I just was and you're fucking full sending, like, snowboarding 5 days in a row, and by the end, your knees are swollen and you're barely walking, and you're like, but wait. I, like, rode my bike across Africa 5 years ago. I'm fit. And then you're like, oh, but you're also old, bitch.
Jen Gurecki:So anyhoo, I would love to write about that and contribute. I do I don't have periods, so I have lots of other things, though, about Yeah.
Christine Reed:Well, the whole book is not about periods, but the book is split into 3 sections, blood, sweat, tears, and the blood section is all about periods. So and there is a menopause story in there.
Jen Gurecki:Okay. Good. So Good. I also people know I don't fucking run. I don't hike.
Jen Gurecki:I don't do those thing. I like gravity to support my outdoor activities, which is why I snowboard and I ride bikes. I will go uphill. I'll work hard to go uphill, but there better be the fast fucking downhill payoff. So I don't do this, like, I'm a hike up a mountain to then hike back.
Jen Gurecki:No. Oh, no. That should not do that.
Christine Reed:That is the one way we are different. Going fast is so scary to me.
Jen Gurecki:I I mean, I'd say compared to, like, lots of athletes, I go slowly. But compared to people who don't like to go fast, I go very fast. I love a good downhill if the if it's right. Like, am I in situations where I'm like, you're gonna fucking kill yourself today? Yeah.
Jen Gurecki:That happens. Have I said out loud to people, we need to rein it in today because we're gonna hit a tree or fall in a tree well or, like, something like I have I say these things out loud, so I get it. But, yeah, I don't like you're self published. You and what is that process of learning been like for you, and what is it essentially like to publish your own book?
Christine Reed:It's like having 5 full time shots. You're like, you're the writer, you're the editor, you're the design manager, you're the marketer, PR person. So, I mean, just kind of going through steps. Like, with the alone in wonderland, it took me about a year to write the book. It took me about a year to go through editing process.
Christine Reed:I hired 2 professional editors, and then I had about 14 beta readers. So there was a lot of rewriting, redrafting. And then, yeah, it's like finding a printer, hiring a graphic designer, firing a graphic designer, hiring a new graphic designer, and and just going through all of the, like, little minutiae of creating a product, which I think I mean, you do that, so you understand sort sort of working with an artist, figuring out the materials, like getting it sent to the factory, you know, like, all of those steps. But it's also, like, your life story within the pages. But I actually am transitioning my company into being a publishing company, and I'm going to be accepting manuscripts from other writers.
Jen Gurecki:You did tell me that, but I didn't wanna say it right now because we hadn't talked about it. But, yeah, talk more about that.
Christine Reed:Yeah. I just think that, the amount of work that it takes to self publish a book and to do it well and to create a product that is, like, of a high caliber, it it is so many different skill sets, and it also takes, like, a pretty significant financial investment on the front end. And I think a lot of people who have wonderful, valuable stories to tell don't have the wherewithal, or the financial assets to, like, take it from I wrote 70,000 words to, like, here's a book that people would actually wanna buy. And so rugged outdoors woman publishing is is kinda now a thing. And the other thing about blood, sweat, tears was that it was a little bit of a beta run for me to see what it was like working with other writers as, like, the publisher.
Jen Gurecki:So I think I told like, I write with Myrna Valerio and Rebecca Rush, like, sometimes and I start all these things. It's, like, wonderful writing group, and I have, like I don't even know how many thousands of words I have, and it just would end up being, like, short little essays. It's not necessarily a a memoir. I haven't figured it out yet. That is why I was just gonna ask you.
Jen Gurecki:What what stories need to be told? Like, as someone who's written a book, as someone who reads a 100 books per year, as someone who's now starting a publishing company and is going to be making decisions about what to publish and what not to publish, what stories do you think need to be told?
Christine Reed:I mean, I think that the reason I wanna focus on, like, women's and gender expensive stories is because, like, I just don't need to read another hiking book written by a white man. It's not that there aren't stories out there by women because there are, but it's just such a small category in the outdoor space. And I think that those, like, personal connecting stories like, it doesn't necessarily even have to be something, like, insanely profound. It's just a story that someone can see themselves in, and that is an invitation for people to try something new, to get more outdoors, to care more about the outdoors. You know, I would love to have some stories that are a bit more, like, ecologically focused or focused on diversity and, like, what we can do for the outdoor industry.
Christine Reed:Like, there's there's so many different ways that you can take this. And I think the beauty of the aspiration of publishing 10 books a year is that it we can get a lot of different voices in there and a lot of people with different messages saying different things. Like, I can only say so many things. I only have my perspective to go off of, and I don't even know that I could dream up what all those things are. Right?
Christine Reed:Like, I'm excited for the the prospect of people bringing me their manuscripts being like, I wrote this book, and this is what it's about, and me saying, I never would have even thought of that. I can't wait to share that with the world. Right?
Jen Gurecki:I like that that's the answer because one thing I find and I worry about is working with women, how they never think that what they have is enough, that they're trying to make sure that they've checked all 10 boxes, and they will not apply unless they check every box, unless they have met all of it, or they won't, submit the manuscript unless they feel like it's truly transformational and life life changing. Right? And I wouldn't say that I don't fall, you know, fall victim to it. Like, I certainly second guess myself and have that imposter syndrome at certain times. But I think in general, like, women hold themselves back so significantly because they feel like it has to be perfect, or else they won't do it.
Jen Gurecki:Like, it's why women don't start the businesses they wanna start or why, you know, they don't have the careers that they wanna have or just, you know, they don't have the lives that they wanna lead because they think it all has to be perfectly aligned before they even deserve it.
Christine Reed:Totally. Yeah. I will say that when I collected submissions for Blood Sweat, Tears, I tried really hard to be vocal about, like, you don't have to be a writer to submit something because I really wanted I wanted everyone's stories. And I think that to have a powerful story or a powerful experience that is worth sharing does not necessarily mean that you're going to be extremely skilled at putting that into words. But I think as a publisher and also as a writer myself and having professional editors in on the process, like, we can take the bones of a story I So, yeah, I do think that a lot of us are just in our own ways.
Christine Reed:And even I will say I run an outdoorsy women's writing group also, and I've been doing that for 2 and a half years. And there are women in that group who have been saying since day 1, they are working on a book. And I'm like, girl, where is this book? Like, what have you written? You know?
Christine Reed:And, like, some of them have had most of a book written for the whole time, and they're just, like, taking it to critique groups and, like, doing editing and doing, like, self editing. And I'm like, let me see this book. Like, why are you hiding it from the world? You have a whole book written, and it's just languishing. It's not it's not out.
Christine Reed:Where is it?
Jen Gurecki:If only we could move through the world being okay with being absolutely mediocre, like so many men. Imagine if we were like, no. I got them fine. I got this. It's cool.
Jen Gurecki:It's fine. Imagine how different this world would be if we gave ourselves that same same amount of grace as the men's do. Yeah. Other thing you do so she writes books, everyone. She is she lives out of her van, which I just wanna say, like, it's not I think it's important to note you don't have a fancy sprinter van.
Jen Gurecki:You have what I would call a minivan. If I were just my memory again, I don't remember this morning, so I could be off. Christine does not have a big fit. Like, she's not rolling around in some, like, $200,000 renter. You know?
Jen Gurecki:Like, she, cannot stand up in her vehicle. There is no sink, no toilet, no refrigerator, no stove. There is a place to lie down and some spaces underneath to put some things, and then she gets in the front seat and drives. And I think that's an important part of telling your van life story because it's really different than what people think of van life. You know this.
Christine Reed:Right? I do. And I suppose I should be more clear when I say I live in a van because I know what people are thinking when I say that. But, no, it's a Mazda 5, which if anyone is familiar or curious to Google, is, like, slightly smaller than your average minivan, verging on the size of, like, close to a Prius. Like, I didn't realize it was that small until a Prius parked next to me, and then I was like, oh, it's actually not.
Christine Reed:It's only, like, a little longer than a Prius. How tall are you? 511.
Jen Gurecki:What? Can you stretch out straight in the back? You can't, can you?
Christine Reed:Yes. Yes. So I have to move the passenger seat forward, more forward than you would be able to sit in it. And then my head is, like, right next to the back door and then my feet kinda go off the edge of the bed platform right next to the back seat or to the passenger seat. So it's just long enough.
Jen Gurecki:I don't know if I'd call that just long enough. Yeah. I I don't I have I have different words to describe your feet kind of falling off and your head up against something. I don't know if that's just long enough as much as it, like, it it go it's okay. But, like, just long enough is, like, my entire body gets on something, which is my double bed that I have in my home, which is legit like, my double bed.
Jen Gurecki:I'm like, well, it's wider than I need to be, but, like, not like, sometimes my feet fall. Like, I'm like, oh, scoot up. Scoot up. It's not
Christine Reed:It's not quite just long enough. Yeah. I mean, I I bought this van. So I did have a bigger van before, and then the pandemic happened. And I was poor, and I had to sell it.
Christine Reed:And then I did not have a van for, like, a year, and I was living with my ex. And then I was like, I'm claustrophobic. This is gonna ruin our relationship because I need to be able to escape. And so I bought the minivan for my first book tour thinking I'll probably have this minivan for, like, 6 months, and then I'll be able to replace it with something bigger. And that is gonna be 2 years ago in April.
Christine Reed:And now I just live in the minivan.
Jen Gurecki:Oh, I love it. Okay. So just to recap, she's written her second book, has a publishing company, lives in a minivan where the bed is just long enough, air quotes, hard on that. And if you are still listening, you might be at some of the best part of the podcast. You're welcome, faithful listeners.
Jen Gurecki:Christine has a OnlyFans, which you started after we met because I had a OnlyFans, and we talked about the OnlyFans. And then we were talking about having you on my OnlyFans, and then you're like, fuck it. I'm gonna do my own. And your OnlyFans is really good. We need to talk about OnlyFans because people don't talk about it.
Jen Gurecki:And there's so many things to discuss about having an only there's so many things in the year 2024 to talk about. What do you wanna say about this OnlyFans account that you have?
Christine Reed:Oh my gosh. It's been a really interesting experience. I've been I started it in October, I think. So, like, right after we met. Yeah.
Christine Reed:It's something I'd wanted to do for a really long time and had been, like, curious and scared about. And then I met you, and you were, like, talking about OnlyFans loudly to someone else. And I was like, I'm getting in on this. So I walked over and I was like, tell me more. I loved I loved the way you were talking about it loudly to someone else in a, like, a group space, and I was like, yes.
Christine Reed:She's just like blasting into the world. Yep.
Jen Gurecki:That's my inside voice. I was using my inside voice.
Christine Reed:Well, just your attitude your attitude about it and the fact that you are a business owner in the outdoor industry and, like, not and then you were like, oh, yeah. I, like, put a link to it in my newsletter. And I was like, okay. So, like, all of the things that people worry about with something like that, that's like, oh, it's gonna change people's perception of me. Like, it's gonna hurt my business.
Christine Reed:It's gonna hurt my professional, like, visage or whatever. Like, you were not at all affected by that. And I was like, okay. If she has the attitude about it, so can I? Like right?
Christine Reed:Like, if you can walk through this space and just be like, yeah. I'm on OnlyFans. Blah blah blah. Like, why can't I also do that? So the power of storytelling.
Christine Reed:Right? I saw you doing something and I was like, if this lady can do it, I can do it. And so I just went and did it, and it has been a really cool experience. And I kinda roped one of my friends in on it. I am absolutely interested and open to pulling some other people in, but I haven't had anybody express, that much interest other than her.
Christine Reed:But, I really started it as, like, a body positivity, like, self empowerment kinda thing. I had taken some nude photos in nature in 2020 when the pandemic was happening. I sort of got an invite from, like, some dude on the Internet that I didn't even know, and he was like, come to Wyoming and take naked photos. And I was like, yeah. That would be better than what I'm doing right now.
Christine Reed:So I just went and did it, And it was so good. It was such a good experience. And then looking at the photos afterwards, I was like, wow. Like, I can look at my nude body and think, like, there is beauty there, and that is not something I ever would have thought I could say about myself, you know, 5 years ago. And so I just found I found the experience really empowering.
Christine Reed:And afterwards, when I had these photos, I was, like, racking my brain for, like, who can I show these photos to?
Jen Gurecki:Because I couldn't just, like, post
Christine Reed:them on Instagram. But I just wanted everyone to see them because I was like, look at these. They're so great. And so so I was just like, you know, I was just like to, like, people people I wouldn't go up to and be like, do you wanna see my naked body? I was like, do you wanna see this naked photo of me?
Christine Reed:And I like, just that it was just such an interesting human experience to, like, go through that sequence of things, and that all had happened several years ago when we met. But I was like, you know, I'd really love to explore this more and to, like, do do more of that, encourage other women to do more of that, share those photos more widely, and have just have a place to share them because you can't just post them on Instagram. And so there you know, it was a lot of that motivation to do it. And then, of course, there's still people who, like, they're I haven't experienced very much overt judgment about it, but I'm sure people are saying things behind my back, but, like, fuck them. Who cares?
Christine Reed:I
Jen Gurecki:mean, they they all they always happen when they are they were saying shits. They were saying other things. You just are giving them
Christine Reed:Sure. But also I wrote my life story in a book and published it and anyone can read. Like, I I have no secrets. I've been really surprised by the people who I'm closer to who have gotten the wrong idea about it. Like, one of my really good friends when I was like, hey, finally starting OnlyFans.
Christine Reed:She was like, are you fucking your boyfriend down there? And I was like, no. Why is that the first thing that you would ask me?
Jen Gurecki:That's the interesting thing about OnlyFans. Like, when I told people we were starting 1, I prefaced it with there's going to be a lot of nudity. We're basically taking free the nip Friday, and the nip is free. Like, there's no it's uncensored free the nip Friday plus some extra, like, extra bonuses because we'll shoot full body. But you can have an only fans without fucking somebody else.
Jen Gurecki:And so I think it's it's really interesting for me to to have an only fan like, to do it differently on both ends. You're like, okay. I'm here in the, like, air quote, normal world where I have an OnlyFans, and that is, you know, in 2024, not overly like like, it's different than it was if you were doing it 5 years ago. Right? Like, it's so much more socially acceptable to have one, and I find that most people are pretty pumped on it.
Jen Gurecki:But you're still, like, really challenging the status quo in Vanillaville. But then you're in, OnlyFans, and and there is this expectation that, like, you're having sex. You're like, well, what if I don't? What if I take your money without actually fucking someone else? And that that is one of the most interesting fun parts of OnlyFans is to not fuck, is to not have sex and to still make money off of it and to show that there is a demand for, for essentially, like, consuming you know, like, finding pleasure in consuming what we the imagery and the videos that we put out there, but that it doesn't actually have to be sexual in nature, I I think is and and and, of course, it is.
Jen Gurecki:Like, we absolutely know what people are doing with these photos. Like, let's not be foolish.
Christine Reed:We don't Yeah.
Jen Gurecki:Right. Right? But, like, we don't we don't have to participate in sexual acts on OnlyFans. And not to say that that's bad. Like, people who do it, good for you, you know, but you don't have to do that to have an OnlyFans.
Jen Gurecki:And so I think it's interesting to kind of push the boundaries there as well in terms of, like, how do you use this platform? How do we, how how do we use the platform to sort of, like, to, again, like, tell a different story about what it means to be, sexual and nude and intimate in a way that really defies the stereotypes of I am here for the male gaze.
Christine Reed:Yeah. Yeah. It is really interesting because I think there's yeah. The people on the outside would think that you're doing one thing, and then the people on the inside also think that you're doing that or want you to be doing that to to some degree. But it's been really interesting.
Christine Reed:You know, I've had a lot of people sort of subscribe and then only be there for a month and leave. I'm sure because they came thinking thinking they were going to get something that they're not. But I have also had people who are are members of OnlyFans, like, they follow other accounts. They already had an account before they followed me, Say, I love your content. I love that what you're doing is not what everyone else is doing.
Christine Reed:Like, it's such a highlight on my feed to see something that's beautiful and artistic, and, like, it doesn't have to be graphic and sexual, for me to enjoy it and, like, be here and be here for it and excited for it. So it is it's it's pushing expectations on both sides for sure. And I think that there's there's learning to be done by people on both sides, and I am happy to, like, be facilitating that conversation, for a lot of people.
Jen Gurecki:Mhmm.
Christine Reed:Yeah.
Jen Gurecki:Do you think that when we get old, we're gonna look back on this and be like, fuck yeah. I had OnlyFans, or do you think we're gonna be like, oh my god. What was I thinking? What do you think we're gonna do when we're old?
Christine Reed:Do you think this is, like, equivalent I'm trying to think of, like, what the is this, like, seventies Playboy Magazine models now being like, yeah. It was hot. It's Playboy Magazine. Yeah. People paid me money to see my naked body, and I pretty much gave them nothing in return.
Christine Reed:Like, I I just posted photos that I was gonna take anyway. Yeah. And and, like, that feels fair and equal and appropriate to me.
Jen Gurecki:I was just gonna say, I think, like, probably one of the big differences between our OnlyFans accounts and even Playboy seventies is that we are 100% in control of the content that we put on there. There is no one else. Like, there is no man. There is no man telling us what it is that we should be putting on there. Like, it's what we like and what we want, and you can either participate or not, but we're not like, and there's certainly, like, plenty of OnlyFans accounts, which they're clearly there to cater to the mail.
Jen Gurecki:Like, they're like I mean, all you have to do is spend a few minutes on there and subscribe, and you'll get the messages that I get. It's fascinating. Sometimes I'm like, wow. But and I bet they make 6 figures doing what what they do. That it that is the thing.
Jen Gurecki:I do think to make 6 figures, you're a 100% begging to make 6 figures. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Jen Gurecki:Which is yeah.
Christine Reed:And that's fine. I'm not trying to make 6 figures. I have a business to run. Yeah. But just, like, I just honestly, I did it for me.
Christine Reed:And I did it because I thought it would be interesting, and I wanted to share what I was doing. But, yeah, I'm not selling a product. I'm selling an idea and an art project. I guess I'm, like, I'm selling an art project is really the basis of it. So, like, if you were gonna pay $10 cover fee or whatever to go to an art gallery and, like, look at a bunch of new photography on a wall, like, that's similar to what you're gonna get coming into my OnlyFans.
Jen Gurecki:Well, when I was in my twenties, I was a nude model
Christine Reed:for Oh, really?
Jen Gurecki:Paint yeah. I did that for years years. So that was one of the things for me is I was like, well, this doesn't feel that much different. You know? Like, I've already been nude in front of strangers in a nonsexual way.
Jen Gurecki:Obviously, like, you know, to your point that you said, like, as as someone who has a business, like, you have more to lose at my age than when I was in my twenties. Like, you know? And certainly, way more people are keeping track of me today than they were back then. I don't know if it's negatively affecting anything. Like, I haven't like, knock on wood, I haven't lost any wholesale accounts for Coalition Snow.
Jen Gurecki:Our Instagram followers haven't significantly tanked. Our email newsletter followers haven't tanked. I mean, our revenue is tanking, but that's just because the outdoor industry is crumbling in front of us, which has nothing to do with me. I digress, but that's truth. That's everything's fine.
Jen Gurecki:Everything's fine. But, I don't really think that like, I do think people have certainly where they're like, oh, that's interesting. That it's and it's so, like, for me, it's so on brand. No one's surprised, and I'm sure it's the same for you where everyone's like, oh, okay. Where's Christine's doing this?
Christine Reed:Yeah. I don't think that there is any like, nobody has approached me and been like, I can't believe you're doing that. And I think that allowing the fear of that to control what you do would be like like, what would you do if you were worried about people being upset by things? And Do it more? I mean, I guess that's what we are doing.
Christine Reed:I think there's something to be said for, like, part of the whole idea of it for me is about, like, my relationship with my body and shame and, like, the idea that my body is nothing to be ashamed of. And, like, I actually don't care who sees me naked at all ever. Like, I don't my body is not a secret. Like, I just don't understand the relationship that we have with bodies culturally where it's like, oh, that's, like, private and, like, don't show anybody. And I'm like, we are all bodies.
Christine Reed:Like, we all have the same shit going on. Like, it's just not logical or sensible to me. One of the people that I, like, had a little bit of, like, a romantic entanglement with was, like, really not on board with it. And he was like, you know, anyone in the world could just see you naked. And I'm like, okay.
Christine Reed:1st, they'd have to pay me $6. Like and also, like, I wouldn't post anything on my OnlyFans that I wouldn't post on Instagram if I wouldn't get in trouble. Right? Like, it's it's not sexual. It's not graphic.
Christine Reed:It is just nudity. And if I was allowed to post that on Instagram, I would. So there's nothing that I've posted that I'm, like, I wouldn't want literally anyone to see. Like, I don't it doesn't affect me. You just saw pictures of me on the Internet, which anyone could do.
Jen Gurecki:Which anyone can do. Yep.
Christine Reed:How do you segue away from that?
Jen Gurecki:What? You can't the only way is to end it now. But before we officially close this out, is there anything that you wanna talk about or anything that you wanna say that we have not discussed yet on this episode?
Christine Reed:I don't think so. We hit the high points. We did.
Jen Gurecki:We got the high points.
Christine Reed:Honestly, the book project is, like, my whole life right now, so it's basically the only thing I think about.
Jen Gurecki:Okay. So speaking of the book project okay. Where can people find out about the new book and the book tour? Where can they find out about this?
Christine Reed:My website is ruggedoutdoorswoman.com, and on social media, I am rugged outdoorswoman. So either of those places. Right now, the website, you can preorder the book. I've got some sweet merchandise with, like, beautiful floral uterus art, if you're into that. And then as book tour events get scheduled, I will have a calendar of events on the website that will have all the events I'm doing, but also all of the events that all of the other writers are doing.
Christine Reed:So if you're interested in meeting any of the writers, I'll be hosting, like, a big calendar with everything there.
Jen Gurecki:Amazing. I'm gonna put that in the show notes. Also, your OnlyFans is under the same name, so it's just very, very easy to find you.
Christine Reed:I'm the same everywhere.
Jen Gurecki:Yes. Same. It's perfect. Well, this was lovely. This to have this catch up with you alongside everybody else who's listening, and, I cannot wait to hear about the book.
Jen Gurecki:The book I can't wait to buy the book. I can't wait to hear about the book tour. I can't wait to hear about what happens with this boyfriend when you leave in 3 months. This is gonna be really interesting. We definitely have more OnlyFans things to talk about.
Jen Gurecki:Yes. I need to write my book. You're gonna have to publish it. Now it's, put out there into the world. To all of our listeners who've made it this long, you're welcome.
Jen Gurecki:And thank you for being here, and cannot wait. Next episode, I think Jillian will be back. Although, no one knows because we clearly fly by the seat of our pants. That's what we do here, and that's how we're able to have these lovely conversations like I had today. Christine, thank you so much for being here, and can't wait to follow along with your very exciting, and still inspirational journey.
Jen Gurecki:Very it's really fun to see what you're up to.
Christine Reed:Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for inviting me. This has been a delight.