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Welcome to Coworking Values the podcast of the European Coworking Assembly.
Each week we deep dive into one of the values of accessibility, community, openness, collaboration and sustainability. Listen in to learn how these values can make or break Coworking culture.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: Hello you,
wonderful coworking Community Builders.
So one of the main reasons I do this
podcast is because I hear loads of
concepts, ideas, and things around
and get wildly excited about them.
I'm like a caffeinated octopus and
I'm really crap at explaining 'em.
So by inviting people onto the
podcast to explain them, it helps me
understand them at a deeper level.
And it gets you, the, you, the listener,
to hear these things played out.
And there's a lot of concepts around
that are really interesting to
talk about in Naval Gaze all day.
But what we're really interested
in is the practical application
of these in our daily lives.
And story is, oh my God, I can't
hear another thing about story.
But in 20, I think it was 2018, I
picked up building the story brand.
And I was like, that's what I've been
trying to understand for the last decade.
Because a lot of the story,
story story was very conceptual
and you know, very agency.
But Story Brand It's like, ah, so that's
how I use story in a business context.
And then Unreasonable Hospitality
came around and the coworking
industry went nuts about that.
And that book is brilliant.
A lot of you listening to this
would've come to the workshop that
Sonya and Julie did at Urban MBA back
in 2025, which was one of the first
Unreasonable Hospitality workshops.
And jj our guest today is the
chap who wrote that facilitation
manual with Will Guera.
So companies could take
Unreasonable Hospitality back to
their people, as we like to say.
And what does taking it into the company
mean it's things like micro businesses
are not gonna be able to hire the
Foo Fighters to turn up and play for
their favourite customer's birthday.
But there's a day-to-day
application available, which we
will dig into in this podcast
. And if you can't get the Foo
Fighters selling community
up front is never gonna work.
It's actually like it's a byproduct
of great connection and great service.
And JJ explains that
really well in here too.
And also You know, Iwo, I worked in
hospitality and we've always given a
big training manual, and it's great
to have all these things written
down, but you can't just hand that to
someone and say, here's how you do it.
It goes way deeper than that.
So, again, JJ digs into that, and if you'd
like to get even more into this, there is
a link in the show notes to the workshop
that's happening in Holburn in London.
I think it's around 11th of June.
And if you use the code co-working
values, you get the mate rate there.
It's a, it's a phenomenal combination
story brand and unreasonable
hospitality at the same time.
And I'm gonna link to a couple of other
podcasts in here, Sonia and Julie,
which is a couple of weeks ago, and
also Ian Minor, who a lot of you know,
really, you know, cuts through the
fluff about hospitality and the actual
financial reality of why you can't
deliver hotel service on a coworking
budget and how to sort that one out.
So this introduction is
nearly a podcast in itself.
Let's get into jj.
Ladies and gentlemen, it is yet
another, coworking values podcast,
from, is it sunny Nashville?
Are you in Nashville?
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: Yeah.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: Yeah,
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228:
sunny today.
Yeah.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: It is Dr.
JJ Peterson.
So jj, if I can call you jj,
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: Yeah.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227:
what are you known for and what
would you like to be known for
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228:
Um, I'm known really for two things.
Uh, one is helping people clarify
their message using the power of
story, and so helping companies
with their marketing and branding.
And then the other thing that I've,
I'm known for is helping companies
with their unreasonable hospitality.
So the way those two things work
together is marketing is really, and
messaging is about talking about what
you do, like making a promise to your
customer about the things that you offer.
And then Unreasonable Hospitality to
me is about delivering, or even in many
ways, over-delivering on that promise.
so I help companies do
both of those things.
Like I go in and help them
clarify their message.
So I do workshops and help
them understand their story.
And then after we do that, I go, all
right, so now how do you actually become
the business that people come back to
over and over again by delivering on
the promise you made in your marketing?
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: and
what would you like to be known for?
Jj, after all of that, you're
doing quite well at that bit, but
what would you like to be known?
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228:
What do I wanna be known for?
Um, if I'm most honest, um, I wanna
be known for caring for people.
I, I want, I want anybody, I I I, I turned
50 this year um, I've, I really decided
I only wanna work for 10 more years.
I'm not the kind of person who, at 60
is gonna be like, oh, I'll work forever.
No, I actually wanna retire early.
I wanna be done.
I wanna enjoy my life.
I wanna enjoy my family.
so I really paused when I turned 50 and
said, what do you wanna be known for?
And the biggest thing, yes,
like I have a PhD in story.
I helped Will Guera write
the certification for
Unreasonable Hospitality.
I trained coaches all over the world.
Those things are there.
But really, I, I said to myself, I want
every single person who is in a room
with me to be changed and feel cared for.
Now, I can do that in 20 different
ways, but really the ways I've chosen
to do that is through Story and
unreasonable hospitality teaching people.
But really my main thing that I
wanna be known for is that when
people walked away, they were
like, oh, he really cared for us.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227:
That is, that's beautiful.
That is so cool.
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: And
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: People.
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228:
And it's honest.
It's like the truth about all of it.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: I don't
wanna sound too cheesy, but I, always
get that sense, like when, you know all
the things I've watched you and we've
been at the workshop in Nashville, like,
it's like you're about to, you care.
People get it.
And even when you're being deadly
serious, it's like you're about to
burst into giggles, which kind of adds
this lovely atmosphere to the room
so we're gonna talk about
unreasonable hospitality.
Have you, are you planning
just to set it up?
Like, I don't suppose you're planning to
come to Europe or London anytime soon.
Are you like,
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228:
I am, yes,
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: my goodness.
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228:
yeah, I know.
It's shocking.
It's shocking that this
worked out this way.
Uh, yes.
I'm coming to, um, to London this summer
in June, I'm putting on a workshop um,
some of my friends who are at, uh, the
agency story 22 and day one, we are
going to be doing a StoryBrand workshop
where we're helping people clarify
their message, really, like, understand
what words do you need to be saying
to connect with the right customers.
And so if your marketing isn't working,
your story doesn't feel on point,
we're gonna fix that in that day.
And then the second day, we are doing an
unreasonable hospitality workshop where
we're actually gonna help people systemize
their, uh, their hospitality so that they
could customers continue to come back.
And anybody interested in that
can go to story 20 two.co.uk
and you can register.
And we're gonna be coming there
helping companies take care of this.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: And I
dunno if it's okay to put a, put such
a vicious plug at the beginning of the
podcast, but if you type in, if you put
in type, if you type in coworking values,
you get like the Bernie's mate rate.
And, uh, you know, not only is that
experience alone is life changing.
Um, so when, like, real question is when
you, when did you, like what, when you,
when did you first get in contact with the
Unreasonable hospitality thing and what
is it that like kicked it for you with it?
Like, I, I read that book in tears, but,
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: Yeah.
You know, the first part goes for
me is that I value in my life,
uh, experiences just period.
Like I do not have a big
closet full of great clothes.
I do not collect a lot of, like,
know, I'm not a collector of things.
I don't, cars are like, fine for
me, I don't have a giant house.
Um, but I, I, you know, I live okay,
but I, I don't have all of these
things all my life when I've chosen to
spend money, it's been on experiences.
And when I became a dad in particular,
really became even more important
for me, building memories with my
kids, uh, experiences together.
So whenever I go places, whether
it's like a hotel or a theme park,
or a a, uh, a restaurant, those
are really, it's kind of funny.
I spend a lot of money going to
restaurants and going on trips
because it's the experience
that matters the most to me.
I take my kids on experiences,
like at different ages.
I take 'em to like New York, um, to just
visit New York and go to good restaurants
and museums, and we're going, the kids
are coming with me to London this summer
and building those kind of memories and.
What I found myself going back to over and
over in those spaces was like the, there's
a restaurant here in town called NOCO
that is about 10 minutes away from me.
And the first time we went, the
owners came out and they just
treated us so kindly in a way
that I hadn't been treated before.
not say food-wise, it is the
best restaurant in Nashville.
Food wise, it is incredible.
I mean, honestly, it's, it's, it is my
favourite, but it's like incredible.
But I keep going back because
they treated us so kindly.
They know our names, they remember
who we are, and it became our
neighbourhood restaurant that we go to.
They used Unreasonable Hospitality.
I was talking to them, I literally
said, how do you train your people?
use Unreasonable hospitality.
They were actually fans of Will Cera.
I read the book and now Donald
Miller had also become friends
with Will Cera at the same time.
And we both were reading this book.
And I, other than building a StoryBrand,
which is part of the company that
I've been a part of for 11 years,
unreasonable Hospitality was the book,
the business book that changed my life.
I, it finally felt like, yes, he gets it.
That's really what it felt like.
And so it started in the restaurant space.
It started with the experience space,
and then somebody put into words what
I had been seeking after my whole
life when it came to experiences.
Like when I went, oh, that's
different, that restaurant's
different than this restaurant.
Why?
It's not just the food I want that.
I want that thing that is
just a little bit special.
And Will Gera in Unreasonable
Hospitality put it into words?
And we, we kind of took that and turned
it into a certification so other people
could go and help coach businesses
the unreasonable hospitality space.
So the book is kind of
these amazing stories.
You know, if you've read the book,
you know the hotdog story, you know
the story about the family who they
took sledding and all these kind of
amazing, crazy stories, but there
wasn't really a systemized way of
helping companies put it into action.
And that's really what I helped him do is
create a certification where a business
coach could be certified in unreasonable
hospitality and then go teach it.
And so since I've been a part of
that, it's really, uh, between
story and Unreasonable Hospitality.
It's kind of all I think about these days.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: Me too.
So, so, um, when you got married, jj, how
did you get your salt and pepper shaker?
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: So
that came from the NOCO restaurant.
So what was so fun, that's kind of
one of those things is early on we
went to this restaurant, we went to
Noco, just at one point we were saying
they're asking how we were doing.
And I said, you know, we're really busy
with wedding planning and all this stuff.
In fact, we, we just put our, uh,
registry together and we're, you
know, getting all the details.
And that's all I said, all I said about
three days later, maybe a few more days
than that, like, but within a week, all
of a sudden this salt, this electronic
salt and pepper shaker showed up at our
door that we had had on our registry.
Well, our registry had
not been made public yet.
We had not put it on a website.
We had not put it out there
anywhere, and there was no note
with a salt and pepper shaker.
And so for a while we kept
trying to figure out who sent
us this and who discovered this.
Well, we ended up learning that it
was Noco, that NOCO had looked up,
like they had to dig, they had to
dig to find our wedding registry,
and then bought something that
was specific to the food industry.
You know, the sa this really
cool salt and pepper shaker.
And it was just one of those things
again, where all of a sudden it's like,
oh, this, this is my restaurant for life.
I mean, that alone of where they
took the time to go above and
beyond heard something we said on
just kind of a flippant comment,
looked it up and ordered it.
And they've got our, and, and
it's not a cheap restaurant.
So, and we've taken a lot of people there.
So that salt and pepper shaker and then
maybe, you know, a few extra little
desserts that they pass us here and there,
and appetiser the past has made them
thousands and thousands and thousands of,
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: There's,
um, I love that I, I, I could tell
little stories all day across when
I worked in hospitality and catering
where little things like that have
happened and, I can't remember.
There's another guy, another guy, Ian
Minor, who is on a podcast, podcast too,
and he's part of Brave and they're a
hospitality led, coworking company, if you
like, but he, he too has like, there's a
massive kick of doing things like that.
As I heard you say that somewhere, I
was like, I would actually just, I'm
just, even before I knew all this,
you know, in the, in the nineties,
'cause I'm about the same age as you.
I would just, I just
listened for that shit.
I just, that was.
What I thought you were supposed to do.
Even, even though no one
ever told me to do it.
It's, it's, it's lovely.
One thing that is comes up repeatedly in
this unreasonable hospitality conversation
is like, um, oh, you know, is, is, and
and they're like, obviously set it up.
Here's like, oh, is that
what we're supposed to do If
you run a coworking space?
Like get, send everyone a sort and
pe, electronic sort and pepper shaker.
Like how, and I brought up in, 'cause he
mentioned I'm gonna link to this podcast
'cause it's really important 'cause
everyone's like getting, you know, wildly
excited and starry-eyed about doing
things like that, which I think are great.
And then most businesses are in that kind
of what, what you might call in, I don't
know if Mom and Papa's the right thing.
Like they're micro businesses.
There's like less than 10
people working in the company.
They're building a brand, hopefully a
story brand, but they're building a brand.
Like how are they supposed to compete
with, you know, WeWork land in a spaceship
in the back garden with the foo fighters
coming out the back or something.
Like,
what's, what's, the myth?
You here,
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: yeah.
Hospitality is not about spending
money or gifts that, uh, that
can be a piece of it, right?
So like, that gift was so incredible,
so kind, that didn't happen the very
first time we went to that restaurant.
The very first thing that happened
when we came to that restaurant
was the owner stopped by and talked
to us for like three minutes.
It, uh, which doesn't happen at a
lot of restaurants, not the manager,
the owner came by and stopped us,
and then he personally refilled
our drinks at different points.
Like that alone was just so impressive to
me that the owner of the restaurant would
be willing to walk around and say hello.
So part of hospitality
is generosity, right?
Like what we were talking about,
about giving people things, other
parts of generosity really live in
the connection space of how do people
feel connected to your organisation?
Do they feel known?
Do they feel seen?
Um, do they, you anticipated
their needs at a certain level?
I went to a restaurant one time
with a friend who was left-handed.
We sat down at the restaurant and
the person, the, the waiter came
by and actually changed the table
setting because all table settings
are set up for a right-handed person.
noticed the person was left-handed,
changed everything, and then plated
the food in a way that actually
was more conducive to a left-handed
person that cost no money.
was just somebody being seen and
understood in their needs anticipated.
so, yes, generosity big, like when
people go above and beyond, they're
like, you get a free cruise, you get a
free car, you get a free salt and pepper
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: everyone wins.
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: Yeah,
that is, I mean, I'm not gonna lie, that
is wonderful, but it's not practical
on a regular and consistent basis.
If you have, you know, like if you're
selling yachts, then yeah, you better
give away something really nice with it.
But even then, it's really about
understanding that connection and
when you can build connection.
And, and let's say in the coworking
space in particular, um, you know,
if you continue to come back to
the same coworking space, obviously
over and over and over again, are
you known, are you seen, are, are
there needs that are anticipated?
Not just like your personal ones, but
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227:
Can I, can I jump in there?
Joseph, can I interrupt you there?
'cause like that is exactly the point
and I'm, I wanna, I'm being a bit a
DHD here 'cause I, I, you said it and
I wanna remember it, is that, I say
that word at least 3000 times a day.
It's all about the connection.
Like what does in, in what I
know what you mean by that, but
like, what do you mean by that?
'cause it's such a throwaway word.
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: Yeah.
mean when I think of connection
specifically, I, I think that when I
say seen, it means that like, again,
even if it's just a, hello, how are you?
Oh, good to see you again.
you are recognised as not just a number
or dollar signs walking in the door.
So you're actually seen as a human
being and connected on that level.
It doesn't mean you
have to be best friends.
It doesn't mean that all of a
sudden you're, you know, inviting
everybody over for dinner.
But it does mean that you're seen.
And then the other piece of the
connection to me, very honestly,
is understanding the needs.
when I say that, what I mean is
like, you know, a lot of co-working
spaces, um, have coffee, right?
And that is an anticipation of a
need with people who are there.
It's not just a nice little service,
it's that, hey, when you're working
and head down for a few hours,
you need a little, pick me up.
You're also a little thirsty.
So then we might make sure that there
is oat milk that is available for
people who are lactose intolerant,
that's anticipating the needs.
Um, mean maybe you had honey instead of
just sweetener, because some people's
bodies do not work well with sweetener.
those are small ways of saying, I'm
going to anticipate the needs of
people who are in this room that
may not fit in like every way.
Or you have snacks available that,
uh, that you go, okay, people need
a little, little extra sugar boost.
To me, those are small things it doesn't
feel, 'cause probably most people already
anticipate and are doing those, but
instead of thinking them as just like
another cost or just like a bare amount
of service, when you're leaning into
those moments, what you wanna be thinking
of, how can I anticipate the needs of
the people who are showing up here?
Yes, that's in coffee, but it's
also in these other little things.
And when you do that, that
means that people feel seen.
that means that the connection
then happens, right?
Because when they feel seen and
understood, connect, they feel human.
And that makes connection.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227:
The other word that gets lumped
around a lot is, is community.
And I'm sure I'm not even gonna say
a question 'cause I'm sure you've
got something to say about community.
That's a really important and,
and if you could weave it into
StoryBrand and hospitality, that
would be really convenient for
the purposes of this podcast.
But where are people
missing a trick there?
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228:
You know, I've worked with a lot
of companies, including our own,
that have incredible communities.
I mean, you were a part of
the guide community here at
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: Yeah.
That
that got me through.
I did StoryBrand.
I'm sure you can remember.
I was there in 2020 February and then
I went to, and then that was lock
down . So I arrived back in the UK
and everything went into lockdown.
And that community just
got me through StoryBrand.
Sorry, got me, that got me
through StoryBrand 'cause it
was such an experience, but
it got me through lockdown.
It was incredible the
way that Slack group was.
Something else.
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: ask
you, I, I'm just curious when, so it's
not an ex, it's not a cheap certification.
You also came over to America
to go through the certification.
Um, you paid a lot of money
for the certification.
you buy the certification for community?
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: No,
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: Yeah,
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: I just wanted
to go to Nashville and see Roy wasn't, um,
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: yeah.
Now community, when here's, here's the
truth, uh, this is, I've, I've worked
with so many different authors and
thought leaders who've created community
or business who've created community.
every single one of them, if they try
to sell on community, that community
is the main thing you're getting.
They don't succeed.
And there's a couple reasons
why for that, in my opinion.
Uh, uh, I, I used to study Dietrich
Bonhoeffer and Dietrich Bonhoeffer
calls community a wish dream because
he would say that A lot of people
throw around the word community
and the idea of community and they
don't actually know what it means.
It's this thing that's ethereal
thing that's kind of just out
there nobody can define it.
When we see it and when we
have it, we know what it is.
But to say, you say, what is community
and, and I'm drawn to community.
Well, the reality is for different
people, community means different things.
If you and I are in a community
together you, community might
mean we hang out every Thursday.
For me, that's intrusive.
We're not doing that.
But I want you to show up at big events
and I want you to be there when we are
working through like ideas together.
So we both might have
different ideas of community.
So when you try to sell on
community, it really is this
wish dream that nobody can grasp.
They can't actually put their
hands around the value that
they're getting in community.
discover it later.
a lot of people who lead with
community as part of their product.
Don't do super well.
Community is a byproduct that is created
when the right people come together,
get the right value, all of that.
But you can't go, Hey, if you come to my
bakery or you're gonna get community, or
if you come to, you know, my coworking
space, you're gonna get community.
Well, I don't, I don't
know what that means.
I don't know.
I, I don't know if I even want it.
I get community other places.
Now when I do go to com there I
discover community and it adds, and
it ke lets me stay a part of things.
actually not something
that people buy upfront.
so that, that's kind of how I look at
it, is, one, you have to be able to
create community to help people stay.
But you don't actually, in my opinion,
want to lead with, well, if you
come to this coworking space, it
means you're gonna join a community.
Well, that may or may not
be valuable for people.
It's a wish dream.
They don't understand what
that means, that they cannot
wrap their hands around it.
But once they're there, when they
find community, they'll stay.
And there's some, there's research
behind, you know, that connection
creates moments of joy, which
creates moments of creativity, which
creates moments of actual, like, it
changes the way your body inter it.
It's crazy how much connection actually
changes our brain and our body.
It's, it's unbelievable.
it is important, but people
don't understand what it means.
What I believe it means is creating
opportunity for connection, for
commonality, for support, um,
for, uh, interaction, for joy.
When you can kind of create the
environment that those things
happen in, then you actually can
provide value and people will stay.
They won't, I, I don't believe
they will come for community.
They will come for the service.
They will come for the way that
you're treated by, that you deliver
on the promise that you offered.
They will stay for the
community and the hospitality.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: I am.
So the other bit I wanna ask you about,
'cause as you were saying that I had this
reoccurring nightmare of, so I, I wrote
on a website before I came to Nashville.
I might add is, is, um, a couple who wrote
this, um, don't, don't, don't hit me.
Our brand stands for community.
And I was very confused about brand.
I mean, I still am actually like,
when, when does a brand become a brand?
'cause you know, that's the word
that means is important, but
it gets thrown around a lot.
And I wrote, our brand stands for
community, which doesn't really
mean anything, but like, how do
we, how do we get ourselves in that
situation when we're business owners?
And that was a, that, I thought
that was a really good, I was
so proud of that line at first.
But how do we get ourselves
in those situations?
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228:
Well, I mean the, the reality is
because we've already experienced
it, we know the value of it.
So we know the value of community
after we've experienced it.
community again, means so much
for so many different people.
Like when you say, our brand
stands for community, what that
could mean is that engagement.
Community building.
Like I'm gonna actually, and
I don't mean that like as in
relational, I mean in physical.
Like we stand for the community
of East Nashville and we are
going to clean up East Nashville.
That's what, you know,
our brand stands for.
Community could mean, it could also
mean that it's means connection
with other people, or that we build
connection, or that we offer connection,
or we help you build connection.
It can mean 50 different
things to different people.
But why that so close often to
our products and service that
we, we already know the value.
We already know what the community
means to us, but it doesn't mean
the same thing to other people.
And so when you lead with that, I think
it actually becomes more confusing.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: There's,
there's one last thing I wanna
ask you about, which is, we're
gonna have to devote the last 10
minutes to this, but there's, your
somewhere in, I can't find it.
I'd love to quote it directly, but you,
you mentioned about indirect communication
and a philosopher who I can't remember
the name of, but I'd love to say it 'cause
it might me sound smart, but it's, it's
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: Kiir.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: about you.
That's it.
Yes.
Talking about Dr.
Jj.
Um, but you can't just change
people's behaviour like that.
So, and that's in relation to, I've,
I've worked in casual dining restaurants
where we get given this folder and
we have to, like, at the peak of my
catering career, I worked for, I was
the first employee of Chili's uk.
And we got given all these manuals
and we've worked for great people,
but it's like, this is the Chili's
way, and we were supposed to sort
of suddenly become Texan overnight.
You know, like the, I feel there's
this disconnect of like, owners
going, this is what we want.
And then handing over some documents,
probably in an app nowadays, and
then expecting it all to turn into
standard operating procedures to
be absorbed like the matrix and
then everyone get on with it.
Like, what goes wrong there?
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: So
the way that that works is there is.
There are two different, I mean,
there's, what Ki Guard talks about
is there's direct communication
and indirect communication,
and there's moments for both.
Direct communication is like, let's
say, instead of the manual and changing
behaviours, there is an emergency
in the, in the kitchen, right?
So you're at a restaurant and
there's an emergency, it's on fire.
don't just say, Hey, let's like
tell a story or a metaphor or a
joke to get people to understand
that they need to leave the fire.
You say, get out now.
Get out now.
Everybody out.
And you're not even nice about it.
You're just like, get
the hell out of here.
Now, that's direct communication.
And in moments of emergency, in moments of
crisis, in moments of, um, where you need
to assert authority in a way that, uh,
kind of shows your power over somebody.
Direct communication is the most
effective now for long-term change and
integration into who we are as people.
been proven over and over is indirect
communication is actually more powerful.
Indirect communication is really things
like using metaphor story, humour,
sarcasm, things to create moments of
what are called double reflection.
So people internalise
the message differently.
So going back to your analogy of handing
out a manual, you direct communication
would say every person that walks
in the door gets greeted by name.
a, that's a direct communication,
that's a rule that we're establishing.
Everybody gets greeted by name.
The way people will internalise that more
is if you tell a story about when you
work greeted by name or when somebody
in the restaurant was greeted by a name
and it ended up changing their life or
changing the way like, you know, they
were depressed and I'll, I'll go extreme.
They were depressed.
They were going through a
divorce, their family had died.
And then you said, hello John.
it, they started crying and
it woke them up to life.
And Beau Beauty in Life,
story is different than me
going greet everybody by name.
You have to, what happens when
you tell a story is people have
to then interpret that story for
themselves, the meaning of the story.
So they hear the story.
That's what's called single reflection.
Then they interpret the
story for themselves.
That's called double reflection.
So when double reflection happens,
we internalise the values and the
meaning at a deeper level than single
communication, which is direct.
that, where this really comes into play
is anytime that anybody has a specific
value, that they hold too strongly.
You cannot directly attack that.
You have to come at it through
the double reflection and in,
uh, indirect communication.
If somebody says, like, if,
if the value I, I'm trying to
keep it in the business space.
'cause there's a lot of examples
of when it comes to theological or
political examples, but let's say in
the business space, somebody has the
value that the bottom line matters most.
So it's all about the bottom line.
We need to cut, cut prices.
We need to, we need to
keep like costs low.
We need to keep profit high.
That's a value they hold in business.
If I want to change that value, I
can't just say to them, it's not
about profit, it's about people.
not gonna change.
That's a value they hold
That profit matters most.
order to change that value, I
have to tell a story about where
valuing people brought profit.
I have to tell a story and
an example and a metaphor.
If I don't do that, then
they will never change.
So that's when you're talking about
specifically your team, can directly
communicate with them about say,
hospitality or messaging or anything that
you're doing, this direct communication.
But the research shows that if you
actually wanna change people's mind and
their action, can lead with direct, Hey,
we're gonna greet everybody by name.
But then in order to actually change
that in the way that they act on an
every day, you have to follow that up
with a story, a metaphor, uh, analogy.
Something that actually causes
them to create, double reflect
on the meaning so that they
internalise it a little bit more.
Does that make
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: Beautiful.
Yes.
No, I did.
I'm, I'm enthralled.
I forgot I was doing a podcast.
I was, I thought I was
listening to a video.
Um, thank you for joining today's webinar.
What is the final, final move is, 'cause
I, I, I'll, I'll trash it if I try
and do it in the, in the outro here.
There is, so, you know, I'm, I'm running
my coworking space and I come to come
to the two days and you know, I've
been through it like we said earlier,
so, you know, I can clearly see, oh my
goodness, if I do the StoryBrand workshop
and go through all that and then do the
hospitality, how could that possibly
not be the best thing you've ever done?
But like, what is the connection
between some stories over here and
some like hospitality stuff over here?
'cause they are so linked.
But clarify my message, jj.
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: yeah.
know, for me, the way that they work
together is really, I think I mentioned
this earlier, it's that marketing is
about connecting with the right audience
and really clearly in your messaging,
connecting with the people who need
your product and who connect with you.
And it's really making a promise
that you are on your service.
So it's, Hey, you need this, we have
this in its most basic form, and
it's like, you need this because
you're experiencing this problem.
We solve this problem.
So that's, it's that direct connection
in a clear communicating way.
if people show up.
They've, they bought into your marketing
message, they came to your website,
they got emails and they've now
joined your, they, they've joined the
coworking space and then they show up.
the experience does not
live up to the promise.
The promise that was made in
the marketing, they'll leave.
And we all know that getting new
customers is, is more expensive than
keeping the ones you already have.
So how do you keep those customers
and make this the place that
everybody chooses to be a part
of for the next five, 10 years?
That's where the hospitality comes in.
so it's the delivery of the promise
that making sure people understand
that they are valued in that space,
that the service is fantastic
that they're seen and understood.
And that, that's why those two things
to me are so important, is you can make
all the promises in the world that you
want in your marketing, but if you're
not delivering on that promise with
hospitality, they'll leave and the two
of those things together, then create
an environment that your business, your
coworking space, whatever you have to
offer becomes the business of choice.
That people come for what you offer
and they stay for what you give them.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: So you
like become the obvious choice?
Is that what you're saying?
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228: Yep.
Obvious.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: What is it?
Um, sorry, couldn't resist.
there's this thing called
internet, internet, jj, and
you are definitely on it.
Where can we find you?
Where's the, where's the
best place to follow you?
Keep in touch, listen to you
and all that kind of thing,
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228:
So, uh, for the workshop, if people
are interested in, I mentioned
earlier, go to story 20 two.co.uk.
That's where you can register for
the workshop coming up in London.
and that is June 10th and 11th,
this June 10th and 11th for me.
Um, you can go to dr jj peterson.com
or dr jj peterson.com.
That's where my services are offered.
And then I also have a
podcast called Badass Softy.
That's for leaders who are
unapologetically driven but
want to lead with their heart.
So those are the places you can find
me and hopefully I'll get to meet
some people this summer in London.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227:
and we'll put a link to all of
that stuff in the show notes.
Folks, I really appreciate your time
and attention today, listeners and Dr.
JJ Peterson.
Okay, say goodbye jj.
dr--peterson_1_05-05-2026_092228:
And goodbye.
Thanks everybody.
bernie_1_05-05-2026_162227: Thanks
again for listening today, you
beautiful co-working community builders.
As always, if you go to our show
notes, there's links to everything
we talked about in the podcast
today and an explanation and
almost like a lesson in themselves.
You really need to go and check them out.
So there's a link to the StoryBrand and
I'm Reasonable Hospitality Workshop, which
is on the 11th and 10th, dunno why I said
that that way around, but the 10th and
11th of June in Holburn in London, if you
use the code co-working values, all one
word that will get you the mates rate.
There's a link to Badass
Softie, which is J'S podcast.
There's also links to the
Unreachable Hospitality book
building a story brand book.
And JJ and Donald Miller wrote this
Exceptionally simple and easy to
understand book about navigating
your website and marketing
called Marketing Made Simple.
It does exactly what it says on the
tin and further coworking things.
If you go to the LinkedIn coworking group,
there's other people like Fannie and Caleb
and Suzanne post their podcast there.
So it's a great little convening point
to her digital outpost in the see
that is LinkedIn and coming up around.
Uh, 3rd of June, it is the
Coworking Alliance Summit.
So if you are in coworking or you
run a co-working event, or you run
a neighbourhood co-working group, or
you run a country or an area, so like
I do the London Coworking Assembly,
there's a European Coworking assembly,
there's co-working Spain and co-working
Germany and cowork in Hungary.
I'm gonna stop there 'cause
I'm gonna can go on forever.
everyone comes together once a
year run by Hector and Ashley is a
three hour online summit and it's
just so good getting together.
I promise you, you will save so
much time by turning up there and
not having to reinvent the wheel.
Anyway, whatever you're doing in the
world, folks, be careful up there.
It is a jungle.
I really appreciate
your time and attention.