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Lighting is the subtle shift. That spark of brilliance. The element that transforms a space from ordinary to extraordinary.
The Reveal is where lighting professionals, residential experts, and designers come together to explore the art and business of outdoor design. From the intricacies of running a design company to the transformative power of lighting itself, this channel gives you the insight, inspiration, and tools to bring every project to life.
Andy Schwindler (00:11):
Happy to be here today. Andy and Michelle Schwindler together to talk about our podcast to reveal. Michelle and I are owners of Sandy Beach Lighting & Design, and we're here to share with you just some of our journey in the lighting business.
Michelle Schwindler (00:26):
So this is kind of a long time coming. People are always asking us how we got here and why we do what we do. And honestly, there's a lot of really cool and wild stories in between there. So I'm excited.
Andy Schwindler (00:38):
Oh, wild. They are. But there's some good stories, ups and downs, big wins. Some I would consider some setbacks along the way, but at the end of it, we're here now and I'm excited to share some of those stories.
Michelle Schwindler (00:53):
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so let's talk about that a little bit more. Who was Sandy Beach? How it all got started? I think the idea was born with your actual skillset. I think I noticed right away that you were, I don't mean to butter you up too much, but you were kind of an outdoor design master I thought. I mean, you just saw things that other people didn't see and I think that when we first started talking about the outdoor design world, it was just kind of starting to explode with the hardscapes and the actual outdoor rooms and all of that good stuff.
Andy Schwindler (01:27):
Yeah, it's been something that I've always been interested in working outdoors. Being outside was always more of a lifestyle thing. I mean, it was my opportunity not only to be outside, but to be in the best backyards, to work in the best spaces. So yeah, I've been doing this a long time and it was exciting for me that you were interested in what it was that I was doing. I was creating all these fun things and it was really fun to bring you on and share those ideas and concepts to the point now where we're doing it full-time together.
Michelle Schwindler (02:02):
Yeah. Well, I think what initially interested me and what you were doing was that, obviously I've always loved the outdoors, but being in marketing, I could totally see that this is where things were going as far as the outdoor industry went. And I think that people often forget that when you choose your career, I mean that's where you're like it or not going to be spending most of your time away from your family, away from your friends, away from your hobbies. So it really becomes your identity. So we started talking about right away how to create something that we actually enjoy doing that we enjoyed being,
Andy Schwindler (02:39):
And that's really where our interest in the outdoors, but really spending the time outdoors kind of brought it full circle. And those of you that don't know, Michelle and I had a design build firm for a lot of years. When we first got married, we decided that we were going to design and build outdoor kitchens. We were going to specialize in just the outdoor kitchens. And at that time that we had talked to her parents about their lake property and I wanted to build the most outstanding, the most beautiful outdoor kitchen for them. Not just for them, but for us to just create a space for us to share family memories and to just make the lake this place where we could spend more time outdoors. That was the initial goal was to create a space for us, but to also create a space that other people would almost envy.
(03:36):
They'd want to be a part of what we were doing. They'd want to have a space like that themselves. So we built this outdoor kitchen on Sandy Beach Drive, Monticello, Indiana, and it had all the things. It had the stone fireplace, the patio, the pergola, the bar, and the Gorilla island. And I'll never forget, we had finished building this. This was like 2008. We finished building it. It was for Memorial Weekend. We were going to have people over and do you remember, we just finished. It was toward the end of the day and we hadn't thought about lights. And ultimately night came and our whole entire outdoor kitchen disappeared, and
Michelle Schwindler (04:20):
We were all sitting out there in this beautiful outdoor kitchen in the complete dark.
Andy Schwindler (04:25):
We couldn't see a thing. And I think we drug a lamp out, we plugged a lamp in and set it off to the side. But we realized early on that we needed to have lighting, not just to be able to see what we were doing, but to really enjoy the space. And it was at that time that I realized that lighting was going to have a big part in our future. I'm not quite where it is now, but that was kind of the beginning. Wouldn't you say? At least our appreciation for just what a role it played.
Michelle Schwindler (04:56):
And I think that's why taking it to where we're at now, why we work so well with contractors and designers and builders is because when they say that they're not necessarily ready to talk lighting yet or they're not necessarily there yet, we get it. We
Andy Schwindler (05:10):
Totally
Michelle Schwindler (05:10):
Get it. It's not at the top of mind, but that's why we're here to help you make good decisions that when your beautiful project is finished, it's definitely going to be that important. So I think that's why we have such a great relationship as far as that trusted advisor with our builder and designer friends.
Andy Schwindler (05:30):
Well, we understand the fatigue. There's decision fatigue that starts to set in. And the last thing you want to think about is the lighting that's going to go in afterwards, but it should be one of the first things. That's the only time I'll really say that today. But we understand that thought process. We're here to help you work through that so we can just make your projects better. A great origin story. That's one of the ones that I think we'll hit on more and more, especially as we talk about you and I actually physically building this thing ourselves prior to that lighting revelation, we'll call it.
Michelle Schwindler (06:07):
Well, we've always had this mentality. People may not get it when we say we are going to build this or this is what we're going to do, but once they see it, we're like, if we can just show it to 'em, they're going to feel what we feel and they're going to see what we see. That's how it happened with the outdoor kitchens. It was a we build it and they'll come moment. And same thing with lighting. It's kind of little by little showing people what they don't even know yet about what their space could be.
Andy Schwindler (06:35):
What do you think that is? What do you think the disconnect is? Do you think It's hard to explain what a feeling is and lighting's a feeling good design's a feeling, right?
Michelle Schwindler (06:45):
Well, that's why you have great designers out there, great interior designers and architects and lighting designers here to show people that don't necessarily have that vision what the possibilities can be. So it's so important.
Andy Schwindler (06:59):
That's what I'm probably most excited about, is putting myself in front of the people that see the importance and understand just what it is good designers bring to the table, whether it's us or other great lighting people.
Michelle Schwindler (07:14):
So why this podcast? Why now? What are we wanting to achieve with this experience?
Andy Schwindler (07:22):
It's bigger than just the podcast. I think when we sit back and think about our projects, our designs, the feelings that people have at the end of the projects, we have to figure out a way to bottle that up. So good. Each one of these experiences that we have with our clients, the ending the reveal is so good and I have to be able to figure out a way to capture that. And so that's the goal of this, to show what the journey is, what it's like to see our thought process, to see kind of behind the scenes on what we're thinking about when you're not thinking about it. Not everybody is thinking about best lighting design practices, but you want to leave that up to us and we want to attract the people into our world that enjoy and appreciate what we bring, and we also want to help other people, people making decisions about lighting or where to get great lighting. Our goal is to talk about best practices, talk about great design, talking about working with other great lighting designers in your area, whether it's us or whether it's somebody else, and great client journeys. And I think that this podcast is going to be our way to do that and everybody needs a little bit more. Michelle and Andy, I think, right?
Michelle Schwindler (08:40):
Well, somewhat. Are you but
Andy Schwindler (08:42):
Somewhat argue? Yeah,
Michelle Schwindler (08:43):
No, for me it's about connection too. It's lost on people sometimes that we didn't just start here. There's a whole backstory to how we ended up in this place where this is so important to us. And the same thing with each and every project that we bring in. It doesn't just go from meeting the client to installation. There's a whole time period where all of these things are happening in between. There's a story that's being told and you can't really convey that in a phone conversation or a client consultation. And I think that we're just really craving connection for people to really get to know who we are and what we're about.
Andy Schwindler (09:22):
Not only just people as far as homeowners or clients, but really the ability to talk to other great designers, whether they're builders or pool builders, home builders, landscape architects. Our goal is to work with a players. We want to work with the best of the best because we're trying to stretch ourselves out. We're trying to get a little uncomfortable. We're trying to push our design acumen as far as we can possibly go. A practice, it's not something you master overnight, it's something that you continue to do in different situations. And the more reps I can get, the better I'll be. And again, we're in it for the pictures too. We want to have those end results, the things that will live on through our portfolio, not just for ourselves, but for our other clients, like the referral partners and other things. So we're hoping to not necessarily be that. What do they always refer to us?
Michelle Schwindler (10:22):
The hidden gem. Yeah, the
Andy Schwindler (10:24):
Hidden. I love Gem.
Michelle Schwindler (10:25):
Love the hidden gem.
Andy Schwindler (10:27):
How long have we been the hidden gem?
Michelle Schwindler (10:28):
We've been the hidden gems for a while,
Andy Schwindler (10:30):
So our goal is to just break out of that a little bit, get to know more people, and hopefully through this process, get more people to know us as well.
Michelle Schwindler (10:40):
So speaking of working with A players, what's it like working with your wife every day?
Andy Schwindler (10:44):
Well, a player at the end of the day, that's probably my favorite part of this, because this isn't just a job or a business. This is our lifestyle. We live and we breathe lighting and the client journey and the message that we get out there because the message that we put out there for lighting isn't just for us. We're trying to get the people that don't quite know just what an elevated experience it is to have great lighting. So we have to get that message out. I'm super excited just to have you on my team to help me get that message out.
Michelle Schwindler (11:23):
I've had such a challenge instilled in me since I've taken on this new position with you, knowing that lighting has been and was for us too. Such an afterthought really. I feel like it's my mission now to work with builders and designers to help them understand how important it is to include that as part of the preparing and the planning and the design process and how much better it can be for the end client and the end user. So I've got this own personal mission I'm working on as well to kind of change the process when it comes to lighting design.
Andy Schwindler (11:59):
And what do you think the major benefits are? Not just working with us, but switching over to a low voltage or a high design scenario as opposed to just our typical can lights or the standard practice. What are some of the things that you feel we can help take to the next level?
Michelle Schwindler (12:23):
Well, I mean, first and foremost, what I think most people think of when they think of light is functional, especially in public spaces, but functional people want to see where they're walking. They want it to be safe, they want it to be secure. But our job is coming in and we're saying it can be both functional and beautiful. It can be functional aesthetic at the exact same time. It can be both things. And up until recently, I've not seen that as much. And you see that when you go into public spaces, the harsh lights, the dark shadows, the lack of feeling and emotion that you're getting. So the low voltage and the LED lighting right now is just so good and it's just really allowing us to come in and be both of those things at the same time.
Andy Schwindler (13:09):
No, that's a great point. The old stuff needs replaced and the new stuff is so good that everybody should have it, and I think that's really the message. So why Sandy Beach lighting design? Why Andy and why Michelle? Let's talk about what sets us apart.
Michelle Schwindler (13:28):
Well, I think anyone that knows us, and maybe more so even you in particular, knows that we're almost obsessive over details, which I think that the client really benefits from there and I think is really important in our line of work as designers.
Andy Schwindler (13:44):
Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that the thing that goes kind of unnoticed is how much work we put in behind the scenes to be good. Not just good but great. We want to be great lighting designers, but we also want to be great communicators. We want this to be a relationship. And I think that's really the differentiator for us is we're really about the relationship because we know that this is going to be an ongoing one, right? Once we install your lights, it's a living, breathing scenario in the ground, the freeze thaw, the sun, all these different things. This is going to be an ongoing relationship and your lighting changes are going to change over time. So that's a big part for me. But the other part is the trusted advisor side. You kind of touch base on that. Our goal is to be the ones that you can trust so you don't have to think about it.
(14:44):
My job as the designer is to make you look really good, and if you look good, all look good. So those are just some high level things that I think differentiate us. Some of the other things, we're involved in the National Association of Outdoor Lighting Professionals. I'm a certified outdoor lighting designer. Through that organization, I also mentor the new upcoming designers. So I've got a really big hand on crafting just what good design and good design practices are at a national level. I think that brings a unique experience to the table, but I'm also on the national board of directors for that association as well. So I've got a really good understanding of where the industry's going, where it's been, and I'm excited to shape that part of the industry as well. So we're connected, right? We're in this to be who our clients need us to be, and we're there for where the people that don't necessarily understand this part of the business to help them get there. And I think this will be a big part in accomplishing that.
Michelle Schwindler (15:55):
And I think that's really important too. I mean, the fact that we're involved in the A OLP and all of our other lighting educational groups and certifications, we're not just interested in just being as successful as we can in our little market here. We have real interest in elevating this industry as a whole with the amount of newness that there is with landscape lighting and outdoor lighting. There's real room for growth, and we see that we have an opportunity to help shape that in a certain direction. So going back to why Andy and Michelle, knowing that you have someone that's that invested and that interested in that particular element, and they're at your home working on your outdoor lighting design, that's huge. It's huge. We know that. And if we can somehow convey that to people, what a pleasure it is to work with us and what a journey it is going to be from start to finish, we do nothing but benefit other people. So
Andy Schwindler (16:58):
Love it. That's exactly what we're talking about here. Talk to me a little bit about why the reveal. Tell me a little bit about what it means to you and then I'll touch base on just what it means to me too.
Michelle Schwindler (17:10):
Oh, so many things. I mean, there's the obvious, the big reveal after we've worked at a client's home or a commercial property and we've been entrusted in helping them with their branding through lighting, there's always that reveal. But there's so many other reveals along the way, and we're constantly evolving and revealing new things that we didn't know about ourselves, pushing each other. There's constantly, it seems like almost two or three times a year, we're revealing new parts of ourselves, which involves our business and our family.
Andy Schwindler (17:45):
I'll
Michelle Schwindler (17:45):
Let you,
Andy Schwindler (17:46):
No, I think you touched base on a lot of great things, but the reveal for it to take such a presence on the podcast and just the overall brand of what we're trying to accomplish with putting it out is a lot of things. The reveal is that final, like the lights turn on at the end to see all the things in a perspective you've never seen before. That is a big reveal. But I think there's a lot of things along the way that kind of need to be revealed. How hard is it to be in business? How hard is it to manage some of these projects? We'll talk about that too. Some of the things and the challenges that go into pulling off these high design spaces that are under deadline and just have really high stakes. You'll get to see what goes on. We'll reveal all that stuff to, but we'll reveal the relationships, how we got to know some of the great people in this town and the state of Indiana. We'll reveal what it's like to work with your partner. I know there's a lot of husband wifes teams out there that wonder exactly how we pull it off.
Michelle Schwindler (18:58):
That's probably the most common question I get from people is, oh my gosh, I don't know how you work with your husband.
Andy Schwindler (19:06):
We're going to reveal exactly how to work together
Michelle Schwindler (19:09):
Well. We keep it pretty professional for the most part in front of other people's eyes. We keep it all very professional, but we can't forget, there is such a personal layer to this, the fact that this is our life. We are Andy and Michelle, Sandy Beach lighting design. Even when we go home sitting at the dining room table, I mean our nine year old's in it. It's part of who we are.
Andy Schwindler (19:35):
And so we will reveal some of the struggles, we'll reveal some of the big wins. It just really ties everything together. So I'm really proud that we came up with a name like that. I'll go ahead and put it on wax. Michelle came up with that.
Michelle Schwindler (19:47):
Wow,
Andy Schwindler (19:49):
You
Michelle Schwindler (19:49):
Remembered.
Andy Schwindler (19:50):
I remembered. Yeah. But I'll give you credit for that. Thank you. Great
Michelle Schwindler (19:54):
Job. Thank you, Andy.
Andy Schwindler (19:55):
As we talk about the podcast, I'm excited about some of the things that we have coming up. We've got some great projects and we've got some great guests that are going to be on the show. Let's talk about some of the ones that are going to be coming up.
Michelle Schwindler (20:09):
This is exciting. This is when we started our business. You kind of start your business with an idea of who your top five clients are, and this was definitely number one. I think.
Andy Schwindler (20:22):
Let's go.
Michelle Schwindler (20:23):
Yeah. Alright.
Andy Schwindler (20:24):
I'll let you go ahead and announce this
Michelle Schwindler (20:25):
Purdue University. Let's go, Boiler Up!
Andy Schwindler (20:29):
Purdue University this year. And we reached out to them earlier in the season, asked them what we could do to help them enhance whatever they were paying someone professionally to do because we saw a real opportunity. We are so excited to be a part of what they've got going on there. So we're going to have Purdue University, the Memorial Union, we've got some other fun things there. So we're going to talk to them
Michelle Schwindler (20:50):
And I'm so excited. We've been working with their events team there at the Purdue Memorial Union, and they are legit. This team throws some of the best parties locally and the fact that they're allowing us to come in to make their holidays special this year, I'm still pinching myself. So I'm super excited about this one. We're going to be talking to them a little bit about what it's been like to work with us. Everything from product prep to walk in the yards to installation, which is going to be insane.
Andy Schwindler (21:23):
Custom fabrication.
Michelle Schwindler (21:24):
I'm telling you, sometimes we go out there and we propose and sell things that we don't really have any idea how we're going to pull it off.
Andy Schwindler (21:31):
Hey.
Michelle Schwindler (21:33):
But I have faith in my husband that I know that he can do just about anything. But that's true though. I've always went into sales knowing that I don't personally know how we're going to get a light there, but I do have the utmost faith that you always figure things out.
Andy Schwindler (21:49):
I appreciate that. All right, so we've got Purdue. We've got another big one, and this is one we've done for multiple years. Our role is going to change a little bit this year, but we couldn't be more excited to also be doing the Fair Oaks Farm. So Fair Oaks Farm, large farm in Rensselaer, Indiana on your way from Indianapolis to Chicago on 65. We're going to do their whole front campus. We're going to get a chance to talk to the event coordinator and one of the owners there as well. So I'm excited to share that as well.
Michelle Schwindler (22:25):
And for those who aren't necessarily local to us, fair Oaks Farms, they do the Fairlife milk, they've got the new protein milk out now
Andy Schwindler (22:33):
Farm to table restaurant. It's just a good wholesome place. Nothing says Indiana like a farm like Fair Oaks. We have one other one I think that you want to talk about.
Michelle Schwindler (22:43):
Our other larger project happens to be a residential project, which is always super exciting. And we actually won a national award for this particular home, what was it in 2023.
Andy Schwindler (22:55):
That's right.
Michelle Schwindler (22:56):
Which is another Purdue affiliation. Matt Painter, he's our Purdue basketball coach.
Andy Schwindler (23:01):
Matt and Sherry Painter. They're fantastic clients of ours. They use us for architectural and landscape lighting, but also for the holiday lighting. She's a huge Christmas fan and she allows us to get creative and I'd love to have her on the show. I don't know that I can get Matt or Sherry on the show, but I can dream big, right?
Michelle Schwindler (23:23):
Yeah.
Andy Schwindler (23:23):
Okay.
Michelle Schwindler (23:25):
So obviously we're talking an awful lot about holiday lights right now. That's not all that we do, but it's where I find the most predicaments happening isn't the holiday world, just because everything's out of the box. Everything is kind of brand new. Well,
Andy Schwindler (23:38):
I mentioned us pushing our design acumen. Christmas and holiday causes us to that because so many people can just hang Christmas lights. We're going to try to show you guys why it makes sense to work with a designer, especially in high traffic areas like the Memorial Union and the Fair Oaks Farm. I'm super excited to share those with everybody.
Michelle Schwindler (24:03):
Yeah, definitely going to be a unique little peek into our world.
Andy Schwindler (24:07):
So Michelle, let's talk a little bit about who this podcast is for. We want to talk to prospective clients, obviously that want to work with us, but who are some other people that could benefit from this show as well?
Michelle Schwindler (24:21):
I mean, I think that if, I mean you're into business, if you're in relationships at all, if you're into design, if you're in the home services, I think this could appeal to a lot of different people, but even more so than just being beneficial. I think that this is also going to be entertaining for people who just want to see to fellow humans trying to do their best and just going all in on something.
Andy Schwindler (24:44):
So you're saying this isn't just a lighting show?
Michelle Schwindler (24:47):
Not at all. No. That would be boring, in my opinion, to most of the population. And lighting is more than just lighting too, and I think we'll get into all that as well.
Andy Schwindler (24:56):
Great. So not only will we talk about lighting, we're going to talk about business. We're going to talk about relationships, and we're going to talk about winning and we're going to talk about losing, and we're going to talk about all the things in between
Michelle Schwindler (25:10):
And just getting through it.
Andy Schwindler (25:11):
That's it. And then ultimately at the end, we should have some sort of big reveal. I think that this is a good opportunity for us to start a movement for not only just good lighting, but just good general business practices in general. We're all in this together, and whatever we can do to work together to make the end result the best it can possibly be, I'm all in.
Michelle Schwindler (25:35):
And if the fact that we're doing all this means anything, I feel like it means that we've got some huge things coming up.
Andy Schwindler (25:42):
Huge,
Michelle Schwindler (25:43):
Huge. And I'm just so excited to share it. I'm so excited to have an audience. I love that I have my partner and best friend in life that I get to share it with, but I think it's just going to be awesome to bring everyone else along.
Andy Schwindler (25:53):
That's right. And this show's going to be a few different things. It'll be us talking together like this, talking about upcoming projects, wins and losses, but we're going to talk about my angle, angle on certain projects. What was I thinking about? What were the things that came up in the process that led me to the end conclusion? So we'll talk about a few of those things. We'll talk about what's a day in the life look like as a lighting designer. I think you'd be surprised what goes into all the different things. And then ultimately, obviously we're going to try to have some guests on where they can share their experience, not only with us, but just in the community. This should be about community and bringing people together so we all don't have to be hidden gems. Let's get the word out about just how great the people we work with are and figure out a way to continue working together.
Michelle Schwindler (26:47):
If there's one thing that we do know is that when we walk into a beautiful space, there's a lot of people that came together collaboratively that made that happen. And so getting everyone together and just kind of talking this out so we can share that with other people, our passion and our hard work, I think it's just going to be really good for everyone involved.
Andy Schwindler (27:07):
Well, I'm super excited to go on this journey with you. Thank you for being a part of this with me, and I look forward to this journey.
Michelle Schwindler (27:15):
We would invite everyone to join us in our journey, like subscribe, share.
Andy Schwindler (27:22):
I'm Andy Schindler, Sandy Beach Lighting Design. This is my wife, Michelle, and this has been the reveal.