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The secret sauce to your sales success? It’s what happens before the sale. It’s the planning, the strategy, the leadership. And it’s more than demo automation. It’s the thoughtful work that connects people, processes, and performance. If you want strong revenue, high retention, and shorter sales cycles, the pre-work—centered around the human—still makes the dream work. But you already know that.
The Unexpected Lever is your partner in growing revenue by doing what great sales leaders do best. Combining vision with execution. Brought to you by Vivun, this show highlights the people and peers behind the brands who understand what it takes to build and lead high-performing sales teams. You’re not just preparing for the sale—you’re unlocking potential.
Join us as we share stories of sales leaders who make a difference, their challenges, their wins, and the human connections that drive results, one solution at a time.
Jarod Greene (00:00):
Welcome back to the Unexpected Lever, the show where we sit down with some of the best B2B sales minds to unpack the levers that actually move revenue, the people, processes, and the platforms. This season we're focused on the thing that moves all three artificial intelligence, not the hype, just reality. We're talking about the real stuff, the practical lessons learned from the leaders who are in the middle of it, what worked, what they do differently if they were starting today. So hopefully you benefit and hearing from them. I'm your host, Jarod Greene, and today I'm excited because I'm bringing one of my guys to its table. Brings a sharp revenue mindset to this conversation. The Alchemist, Darren Brady. Darren is the SVP of Strategic Accounts at Corporate Visions now, and he spent his career operating at that intersection of sales leadership, go to market strategy and execution, scaling revenue teams. He's been on the frontline and he's seen how AI is going to reshape this whole thing.
(00:55):
So Darren, welcome to the Unexpected Lever, man. Glad to have you here.
Darren Brady (00:59):
Yeah, you're really good to be here. Pumped to keep the conversation going. I know we connected a while back and AI has evolved significantly since then. So excited about the conversation.
Jarod Greene (01:09):
Absolutely. All right, so the first question I ask everybody, this is the unexpected lever. What is the oddest or most unexpected thing you use AI for today? Personal or professional?
Darren Brady (01:22):
That's a really good question. Buddy of mine has a startup right now, and I think this is a basic use case, but he was playing with ideas of like, should I name it this, should I name it this? And so we actually used it from a whole business plan for him to go and execute on. And I know that's a very basic right, that's not concept, but to me, to be able to literally take one, he's a construction guy, and so to take a guy that's construction focused, he's rolling his sleeves up on the job sites to having a true formalized business plan logo, all of these things mapped out how to execute on it. I think it's a pretty neat use case in the AI space that for me was just different. I haven't done that before. I haven't started a company in the past, and so it was a pretty neat motion.
Jarod Greene (02:06):
Was that a push or a pull from your friend? Was that a like, Hey Darren, can you help me out with this thing with ai? Was this a, hey, can you help me out with it? And then you decided to use what was the mix of push pull with that use case?
Darren Brady (02:18):
Yeah, definitely a push because in his mind he hadn't even gone there of using it, so I started throwing some stuff his way, and I always call him the bots, right? The bots said this, right? And so bounced ideas off of, oh, the bot suggested this. What about this? Right? And by a few rounds of that, he got a little more comfortable with it and he's taken it and ran with it. There was a couple certifications that he needs to get that he had no clue. He hadn't really gotten down that avenue to figure out what was needed. And so actually to your point, I think it's going to save him a ton of time, energy, and effort because it's kind of laid all those things out front as opposed to going and finding out on his own. Totally. And he can focus on this
Jarod Greene (02:57):
Core competency, right? No one else can.
(03:00):
Man, that is awesome. Let's talk about your AI origin story. I always say every team or every individual I've met, they hit a moment, whether it's a constraint, a bottleneck realization where you say, can't keep doing it this way. And a lot of times what we see is AI is kind of into the forefront. It goes from, this is interesting, this is a novelty to a holy crap moment. Not only is this amazing, but it's now necessary. What was that moment like for you? Do you remember where you were? Do you remember what you were doing? Do you remember the first application and when your jaw hit the floor?
Darren Brady (03:33):
Yeah, I think it was actually pretty recently. I had a client that I think AI has been around a while. I feel like everybody's dabbled in it. People are building meal plans and they're financially planning using it. There's different ways, and it's felt like this kind of scattered approach where everybody uses it. No one really talks about using that. Someone presents something and it's like, holy smokes, you built that. That's impressive. In the back of their mind, I'm like, yeah, actually I have to do that, right? And so I had an epiphany recently. I had a client, they were at sales kickoff and their team rolled out them specifically, they use an AI agent and they created a scalable agent that could create business cases. And so for them it was so practical, something that everyone in the business could use, not like their sales leader uses it and gives it, kicks it out.
(04:21):
Everyone in the business could use it. To me, it was super interesting. It was the first solid example of a scalable AI motion that anyone on the team could go and apply day one, right? When they left their kickoff, they had a AI tool that had to programmed wire trained to go and drive theirs. Those business cases, they could go build business cases effectively, and they knew that it hit the criteria. Their sales leaders had it mapped to their sales. There was so many things that it was a unifying motion, and to me that was just an aha of like, oh my gosh, this is the first. There's different tools out there. People feel like people are trying to do that, but it was the first application I'd seen so far that was like, that's scalable, right? That's scalable. That aligns the team, that it helps their qualification. There's so many things that it provided benefit around that. To me, it was just a little bit of like, oh yeah, we're going there. It's happening. We're literally going there now. That was one for
Jarod Greene (05:20):
Me. I'd imagine if we did it the way your client just did it, everybody's easy, everybody's clean, everybody's scaled, and you spend more time on getting comfortable with the outputs and tuning than you are with just the colors, the fonts, the calculations. I just totally, totally,
Darren Brady (05:38):
And it's interesting, you bring up a really good point. There was a time where it's like, oh my gosh, AI is going to replace sellers, right? It's like there's a time when you might not even engage with the seller, and I think Gartner put out some studies last year showing that that's actually not true. It's quite the opposite. It's actually a higher appetite for human interaction. But what has increased that is the expectation of knowing their business As a seller, the expectation is I should know more than ever because I have all this information in my fingertips. And so people want custom. People want something that's personalized. People want things that are truly representative of their business. And to your point, the inputs and the metrics and those things, you can actually cater them really, really, really tightly in this motions. I think that's one of the benefits. It's easy to get scared by some of the pieces, but man, you can make some really, really neat stuff that is so personalized, so unique, so pointed that to your 0.4, three and a half, four years ago, you would've had to really rely on the human to put those things in. So it's an interesting evolution over the past few years,
(06:42):
And we'll take it
Jarod Greene (06:42):
One step further. What I always got to chuckle lot of was I say, okay, we present this business case or this value case to the customer who takes it and says, okay, cool, this makes sense. Now they got to go take that and go sell it internally, which means they have to understand the calculation, the source, the match, and then what do they do? They change the color, the font, the layout to fit theirs. And so even the process, I would see the process of just, okay, here comes, here comes the business scale. Oh, five x return. Okay, yeah, got it, got it, got it. We don't measure cycle time this way. We don't measure time, the first deal. Okay, cool, no problem. We'll adjust it. You had whole value engineer roles in companies and you still do, but I think what's interesting is on the buyer side, they now have a cheat code to say, I'm going to take the business case you guys made. I'm going to put it in our machine. I'm going to calculate it with our nuances, and then I'm going to design it around our fonts, our colors, our layout, because I got to present this to my CFO, or I got to present this to stakeholders that want to see the return of product X versus product. And again, AI just makes it faster for everybody in a way where it doesn't negate the need to do a value case. Just the way you do it is just different,
Darren Brady (07:54):
Man, you hit the nail on the head. I had actually, I had lunch last week. I was in Canada with a massive telecom company up there, and I was meeting with my buyer. He actually showed me, he walked me through, Hey, I've been keeping everything you've sent me, email, every this, every that. I fed it into ai. And when you sent that business case, I pumped it in and I had it produce a deck to present to my executive team. It had my branding images, it had all of my stuff, and it was your stuff, but it was in a format that I could go tell that story. It's both sides, right? It's like sellers can be more pointed, but then the person championing you can be more important, which is there's more buyers than ever, and that's needed. Whoever's championing has to be able to tell that story over and over and get people bought into it. And so it impacts the other side just as much as it does the sales side. So we're all just passing prompts to each other.
Jarod Greene (08:46):
That's exactly what it sounds like. So maybe that's the new paradigm is I'm not selling you a product, but I'm selling you a prompt and you take that prompt you put here, we might be onto something, but just you remember, it's like I still see value in things like digital sales rooms. I still see value in really compelling customized content, and I see value in buyer enablement. I just feel like the way we've done it in the past with static decks and static PDFs and complex things that the buyer now has to translate to, it's just here, just take the prompt and you do it, and then you give me the prompt back on what you get. And then we're just passing the prompts back and forth. We figure this
Darren Brady (09:30):
Out. We're onto something. You mentioned a good point of we kind had to walk so that we could run now or crawl back then, right? It was this massive motion around content, right? Well then there was a massive motion around process and there's a massive, I feel like the enablement space has been on this evolution to where it was kind of learning the basics along the way, and each basic kind of had its moment, its shining moment, right? Content was really huge at one point, and then messaging was really big at one point, and all these things were kind of had their shining moment, and now it's not that they're irrelevant, the pace is quicker. I think that's probably the way to put it. And so it's interesting to watch the entire enablement space evolve to the point, I dunno about you, but LinkedIn, I've seen more enablement jobs in the past three to six months than I've seen in the past four years. So enablement isn't going anywhere. I just think the pace of it has picked up. And I think embracing that is important in today's world. Hundred percent.
Jarod Greene (10:24):
You talk about the Gartner studies and heavy consumer, one of the things that was interesting is the skills you end up enabling on are now the AI skills to do the stuff. So depending on what industry you come from, I've always been B2B tech, but you could see a world where one of my best friends he sells, he sells medical devices. And so you could see a world where someone's got to teach him and his team how to do the things that maybe you and I have just learned to do as second nature new to them as an industry. Totally right? As long as it doesn't violate certain rules and certain laws. You got to figure out a way to say, I as an enablement leader, yeah, I'm going to teach you product and process and methodology and I'm going to teach you these pieces, but more importantly, I need you guys to go get cha. You guys have Gemini, you have Copilot. I'm going to teach you from a sales enablement desk perspective how to string all this stuff together, how to execute in the world. And I've seen more of that as the requirement for the new enablement leader than I have on the traditional. Can you manage the platform? Can you set up adult learning curriculums? Can you bridge the gap or harness the relationship between sales and frontline sales managers and product? Can you do, yeah, to all of those things. But that AI skillset's
Darren Brady (11:44):
Real, I remember I was at, this is a year or so ago, I was at a large liberal largest HCM technology companies with their tech team, and they were discussing this role of go-to-market engineer. It sounds like this, like, oh, this is this crazy technical, but that's exactly what the role, they were discussing a dedicated role to teaching people around ai. It's our AI engineer that they take practical things that we've built in the business and they help drive AI in it. And to your point, I think it's become, I don't know that that role will, and maybe it'll take off maybe if you're a go to market engineer out there, I'd love to talk to you because love to learn. But I think that's kind of melding a little bit into the enablement space of that's kind of the role of enablement today's world is how do you merge the practical things we've always done in enablement with AI and optimize it.
Jarod Greene (12:34):
Shout out to Clay. So Clay builds that go-to-market engineering function and the largest go-to-market engineering community in the world. I see what they do. I look under that umbrella. I see a multitude of roles that do it, can do it, have the resources, have the capability. That could be rev ops, that could be sales enablement, that could be the AI person that brings it all together. It could be marketing ops. There's a whole plethora of roles I see in it. And the common thread is, Hey, I'm going to find ways to make salesperson's life a little easier so that we can achieve our goals. We believe we have a great product and a great service and a unique differentiator. And then these tools are here to help us tell that story more effectively. If we're just doing them for outbound email sake or account research sake, we kind of miss the ball. So we'll keep on 'em, Darren. We'll keep the good fight moving out here in the market. Love it for sure. Lemme shift gears a little bit. Talk to me a little about wins and learnings. We don't do losses, but you've had your hands on the tech for a while. We've worked with a multitude of teams. What's kind of one AI success story you are particularly proud of? Something where the use of AI from you and your team made 'em better, faster, more effective?
Darren Brady (13:52):
I would say that one case, the business case and that team actually they went business case. They built some really structured things that was one that it just stands out to me scalable and everyone on their team is using those, whereas there was a fear of heights before. And so to me that's one that's huge. I think alerts are a big one of having building an agent to drive alerts. Used to one of my mentors, John Meyer, and shout out John, and you listed us. But John, I remember when I started under him in 2018, I called him one day and was like, Hey dude, what's your secret? Right? I believe in you. You're doing something right. What are you doing? And he's like, Hey dude, here's how my day is, right? And he walked through his day and one of the first things he used to do was newsletters, right?
(14:35):
Hey, I have emails and newsletters and all these things that come because I want to get educated. I want to be smart in the market. I'm expected to be a business leader and provide insight, and so I need to educate myself. And so AI has just put that on steroids. It really will go and find the pertinent information and serve it up to you every day. And so that's how I start my days, my work days every day is I have an agent that goes and pulls things together for me to keep me relevant. I think that's just an easy way everyone can do it. In today's world, it's not a crazy thing to set up, but it's just an easy way to take. We have more information than we've ever had ever in life, and it distills it down to things that I can be sharp with of what's Gardner been focused on lately? What's Forrester? What are the insights out there that I need to have at my fingertips? And so I just think that's a basic way, but it's one that it can keep people sharp and it helps you as me as a seller to be relevant in today's world as things evolve. Totally. It blew my
Jarod Greene (15:30):
Mind because I remember maybe 2004 or five, I'm just young buck, I'm starting at Gartner, and they pulled Gartner's a phenomenal job with just education for employees even today. So it was like 24 years ago, something like that. We get pulled into a class and they're like, we're going to teach you guys how to set up RSS feeds. And there's like an hour class of here's how you set this up. We're going to automatically pull in the blogs and information you guys want. You set up this RSS feed. Now it's a tab and outlook, and that'll get, I'm like, okay, this is cool. This is helpful. And then quickly what? It's overwhelming. It's just too much. Just it's like, turn this thing off. I set it up. It was a good idea. And you fast forward to use case of Victoria, my team, she pushes the envelope on just about everything we do. And I remember her coming one day and saying, you could take the same agent you just did and put it in a notebook and create a podcast.
(16:28):
So it was like, I don't want to read, but I want to get up to speed on everything on a given topic, and now I'm going to drop it in and create a podcast. And I want two hosts, a male and a female. I want the tone to be enlightening. You could set all the parameters you want, put it in a podcast, put it in your ear and go for a walk. It's just so different. The first time I heard that blew my mind like, is this real? It is real, but these aren't real people who are cutting the snippets from the stuff you said you cared about and talking about it. This was generated.
Darren Brady (17:03):
You can do boring stuff. A guy I met last week, he mentioned, he's like the information that you send, there's a proposal you sent. I put it in a podcast, he put a proposal on, he's like, yeah, I wanted it to present me in a certain way and I just wanted to consume it. And so he is like, I was on the treadmill that morning. I put it in a podcast. I'm like, I think that to your point, you can digest things in different ways. There's so much information. I think one of the things that sets people apart is being able to digest that information in an effective way and such a great filter to be able to do that with a hundred percent. So let's go
Jarod Greene (17:37):
To the flip. We're going to change any names. We have to protect the innocent, any duds out there, and again, these are learnings, no losses, but have you seen something that just, it did not hit, it did not catch fire. Something that somebody should have left in drafts?
Darren Brady (17:51):
I did have, I had a client a while back that they invested heavily in a tool, an AI tool, and they were pumped about it, absolutely pumped about it, and it's a great tool. The tool, I'm not going to name any names to protect, but great tool, but it's layered on top of things, right? It's layered on top of Salesforce data. It's layered on top of different pieces, and they turned it on and it's fast. It totally went sideways, and it was sending French emails to people in America and it was sending English emails to people in China, and it just completely went sideways to the point they had to pull the plug, completely rip it out. And I think that that's one of the tough pieces in pioneering new things as we're going along, is trying to think of the peripherals of how does this affect this?
(18:36):
It's tough. And I think a lot of organizations are figuring that out the hard way, unfortunately. But I think that that was one that their team has a complete distrust of AI now. Their experience so far has been, man, the company really hyped this up. We were really pumped about it and it went completely sideways. And I think that's one of the big pieces in enablement that you have to continuously have a lens and a thought around is how do these peripheral things affect us? Is there anything I need to catch? How do I stay 10 steps ahead and not behind? And I think it's one of the stresses in the enablement space, but that was one that man, I felt bad for their team, A whole team that's like they're a little scarred, right? Yeah. They're a little scarred from that motion. And so that team's taken some steps to drive past that, but it's one that just sticks out to me. It's a tough one, a tough pill to swallow when you spend that time, effort, energy and money, and it goes sideways that way.
Jarod Greene (19:32):
Yeah. You talk about a hype cycle, right? It's just like it's at the peak of inflated expectations right at the top. And it feels like we're going through it right now of like, well, it didn't do that or it did that, but it barfed or it did that. But it's not great. It'll even out in the end. You got to have a lot of wins, you got to have a lot of learnings, I won't say losses, but a lot of learnings to get to a point where you figure out what works for you and your company. And I think we're talking in the pre-call portion of, I think things feel stuck right now. Everybody feels stuck. Do I build, do I buy? Do I wait for my mega vendor to build this? Do I work with my mega vendor to build something custom? Those are all viable options. And we were saying before, as long as it's marginally better than what you have or marginally better than the nothing you don't have at all, okay? But you'll build, you'll iterate, you'll learn. You'll get to a point where you say, Hey, we need to think about it differently. We need to go about it differently. So I would ask you this great segue, what would you tell someone who's strangely enough on the fence, skeptical not in the game? What would you tell them about what it takes to get
Darren Brady (20:48):
Started? Yeah, I think you hit a really good point there. Jarad of progress is progress. Whether it's small steps, big steps, some people are going to go all in. A lot of the big four consulting firms are spending billions building their own agents. They're jumping in the deep end. Whereas for me, up until I would say a year or so ago, it was like meal plan, is this a healthy meal and help me with my shot.
Jarod Greene (21:12):
Just
Darren Brady (21:12):
Dipping your toes in. See MO as possible. And I think that's the easiest way in is just dip your toes in, whether it's a personal use case, whether it's a small helping with an email, there's different unlimited use cases that could start small, test it out, and then start to play around with it. See what's out there. The tough part is things change rapidly. The past three or four months imaging, there's different ones that create crazy realistic stuff. And three months ago it was like 60 years. So they're literally changing so fast. And so it's tough to stay on the forefront of that. I don't know about you, but I don't get alerts about the latest release in GPT. No.
Jarod Greene (21:54):
I just see the
Darren Brady (21:55):
Output and it happens, right? Yeah.
(21:58):
And so I think that's a part of it is continue to use it in a day-to-day function in some way. Test it out and try to learn as you go. I think one of the cool pieces to me was at a sales kickoff recently, and one of the guys, he's very innovative in ai. He was just a very innovative guy and he was sharing things, practices, ideas that I had no clue about. And I think that sharing, that's kind of how you, a podcast, this is a great example. You start to learn different pieces of what's possible. I mean, he was talking about Gemini connecting into emails and connecting into your calendar. He is like, Gemini can literally scan your entire email in a minute. I had no clue that was a thing. I think there's just being able to share. So talk about it.
(22:44):
You don't have to be, it's not like, I dunno, back in the day, CrossFit, everybody that did CrossFit talked about CrossFit. It doesn't have to be like that, but I do think it's a thing of like, Hey, hey, I tried this out the other day. Have you been using it that way? I think that's just being able to share openly, share, we're all in this. The reality is everyone from the least technical person in the world to some of the best engineers in the world, everyone's using it in some way. So I think sharing, open up and sharing how you're using it is always a good idea.
Jarod Greene (23:13):
That's kind of what we want to do is just kind of demystify take. I don't think there's a stigma, but we certainly want to remove any notion of a stigma of like, you can use this, you can be effective in this. Every CISO we've ever talked to is aware that this exists. There's practical applications you can do within the walls of your own company no matter where you sit. So you get a kick out of this because it's just our sales kickoff Evans, a couple weeks ago we went to Morocco, which is really nice. But one of the exercises we ran was we had evolved our strategic narrative. We needed to tell a different story in the market. And I've had my battle of scars from sales kickoffs that have passed, and we knew the best way to get them to internalize the narrative is just to stand and deliver. And I think in the old world, you'd say, okay, we're going to sales kickoff and it's the first week of the fiscal, which means the week before is the last week of the fiscal. So the last thing you want to do the last week of the fiscal is have people, reps get ready for sales kickoff with homework.
Darren Brady (24:16):
Totally.
Jarod Greene (24:16):
Right? So just talking at the executive level and having conversations to say, Hey, you know what? We do want 'em to stay and deliver. This should not feel overly polished, but I know exactly what the team's going to do and you'll like this day. And we took the strategic narrative as an exercise and the day of, I had day one, so the day of, we gave the entire company the exercise to say, here's the long form strategic narrative word document that nobody wants to read. Take this, internalize it. And we had all created it together. So it was like, this is step three of a three step process, but take this document and what we're going to do is give you guys 90 minutes, and in 90 minutes you are going to, in your groups, we had seven teams, we're going to have you deliver a presentation, PechaKucha style presentation. This is six minutes, 40 seconds, 20 slides, slides change every 20 seconds. So you could see a world where if this were even five years ago, asking somebody to create 20 slides in 90 minutes is just nasty work.
Darren Brady (25:27):
It wouldn't happen. Yeah,
Jarod Greene (25:28):
This is just nasty work. You just like, how dare you. The fascinating part of this is there's tools like Gamma and Beautiful.ai and a multitude of LLS. So what the teams were able to deliver in 90 minutes was incredible. And again, everyone's reading off the same sheet of paper. Literally everyone's doing a different interpretation of the narrative to say, Hey, I'm going to use this visual to drive this point home or one group and I will get ahold of it and send it to anybody who wants it. One group literally wrote the storybook, wrote this night fighting a dragon. It was
Darren Brady (26:08):
Beautiful
Jarod Greene (26:09):
In the context of the narrative, 90 minutes, they had no idea that exercise was coming. And in 90 minutes, not only did they create this beautiful story from the narrative, but they stood and delivered it. It was super memorable. And I always say to the main takeaway of the narrative exercise was six teams did six presentations and probably an hour. Nobody at the company can say, I've never heard the narrative or I don't know how to apply. Everyone had a role in delivering it. So get back to just how the models move. I'm asking the heck did you do that? How did you create a children? I mean, the animation. It was, that's awesome. It was beautiful. So I forget, it might've been team four, but shout out to team four. Shout out team four, shout out to team four. Shout out to Eric Salvo. He stood up and did the presentation and crushed it, and they want some money to spend in Morocco. Oh, that's cool. That's cool. Which was nice. So as you think about this, and we're going to go into lightning round and I'll let you go, guy, taking all of your time today, lightning round, short answers, no overthinking it. If you could use AI to automate, augment, or eliminate a component of the sales process, which one would it be and why?
Darren Brady (27:22):
I would say, I mean, the low heating fruit to me is pricing, right? Because the services world, I've lived in the tech world before and pulling together pricing is always, it's like a magic show. And I think getting anything in that, I think pricing will be it.
Jarod Greene (27:38):
Pricing, that's the one. Question two, what book podcast resource has influenced your thinking of AI sales and go to market most recently?
Darren Brady (27:48):
Yeah, I've been hot on the Revenue Brewery recently. Morning Brew came out with the revenue side, and it's just a nice lightning way to stay up to speed in our space. And
Jarod Greene (27:58):
Last question, where can anyone listen to this podcast, find, connect, and link with you?
Darren Brady (28:04):
Check me out on LinkedIn. Happy to connect email dbrady@corporatevisions.com and welcome any conversations in the space. It's an area that's growing, it's evolving, and I enjoy staying up to speed and learning, so happy to connect any way I can. Clearly, we appreciate you, Darren. Thanks so much. This is fantastic.
Jarod Greene (28:21):
We really appreciate your perspective, your point of view, the alchemy you always bring to the table, right? Full former chemist in the building, the wind, the lessons, it all makes sense. And for anyone listening, this is exactly what we do on this podcast. We want to serve as practical battle tested insights from leaders who are in the thick of it and doing it, not just talking about. If you enjoy this episode, subscribe, follow us, share it with your team, tell a friend and tell a friend. And if you feel so inclined, leave a review and I'll see you next time. Thank you.
(28:51):
You've been listening to The Unexpected Lever. This stuff gets you fired up and you want to talk about it with other leaders. Join the Power line Slack community. It's a modern open access community for go-to-market professionals and AI enthusiasts alike. We're all ready to turn buzz into business outcomes. Join by going to vivin.com/community. We hope to see you there.