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Dr. John Sherk, owner and president of Operations Laboratory reveals all of his HVAC technician career happiness strategies, income improvements and killer tech-happiness tips and tricks so you can get ahead of the curve with your HVAC technician career. Discover how you can create a quality negotiated agreement with your manager that works for you so that you can have the time and freedom to do what you love, whether it’s coaching your kids’ teams, getting out there for hunting season, or just living comfortably at home with your family. Since 2010, he’s been consulting his many HVAC clients on how to develop and manage a culture that is friendly to tech-happiness, and here he openly shares his wins, his losses, and all the lessons in between with the community of energetic but humble HVAC techs, managers, and owners who follow him. Self-proclaimed “Technician Happiness Guru” you’ll learn about getting paid what you deserve, building genuine and loyal relationships at work and at home, recruiting winners (tip: they all already work for someone else), building a tech-happy culture, quality communication, skills mastery, optimizing performance, negotiating compensation, professionalism, , and productivity tips so that you create an amazing, tech-happy life without burning yourself out. It’s a mix of interviews, special co-hosts and solo shows from John you’re not going to want to miss. Hit subscribe, and get ready to change your life.
Dr. John Sherk: Hey! Welcome to the HVAC Joy lab podcast. I'm your host, Dr. John Sherk. This podcast focuses on creating more and more conversations about what optimizes life for an H Mac technician. My goal is my goal is to produce the most helpful content available for Tech's full stop.
Dr. John Sherk: Today, you're gonna get to meet Dennis King. He is currently the Executive Vice President for Star Service in Houston, one of the leading commercial and industrial HR companies in Houston in East Texas. Dennis started as a tech and is now approaching 50 years in the business he's also a great friend and it's been my client for many years the level of wisdom that comes from a guy like Dennis, who just got it out as a tack, went to night school and is now moving in very lofty circles. There's lots of wisdom to glean from him about how to be happy as a technician. So let's get started we're always early right large another guy we always treat customers Yeah, well, one guy in a truck guy. Good luck at the HDA see joy Good luck with this HVAC see joy.
Dr. John Sherk: Alright, welcome, everybody to HVAC Joy Lab. I'm Dr. John Sherk. And I have with me today, Dennis King, who is currently the Executive Vice President of Star Service in Houston, Texas. He's got a very interesting life in air conditioning. And welcome, Dennis. Oh,
Dennis King: Thank you. It's good to be here.
Dr. John Sherk: ah, good to have you. So let's dive in. Dennis. Let's start just talking about you and your story. You know, I'd like to open these podcasts with what's your superpower? And what's your origin story. But let's start with your origin story. You tell me about I know you grew up in Iowa on a farm.
Dennis King: Yep, grew up in Iowa on a farm and enjoyed every bit of it wanted to be a farmer I thought couldn't afford to my parents didn't own the land. So after doing some financial analysis at day of graduation actually became to the realization that I simply couldn't afford it. The cost to buy equipment and lease ground was a prohibitive. Yeah, so enrolled in tech school. And decided I felt like that I could do quite well for myself as a technician. I enjoyed people, I enjoyed fixing things. I enjoyed helping others. And that was a good way for me to be able to do that. Yeah, interesting. So I went in, I went to tech school for a year and a half. While I was working nights and weekends to try to put myself through school, ended up landing a job with Johnson Controls. Worked as a technician for Johnson Controls for a number of years. took advantage of every bit of training i could get and continue to learn that's probably one of the things that everyone should keep in mind is it's it's a continuous learning journey life is Yeah, everything changes, equipment changes, technology changes. And you know, it's a matter of keeping up with it. It's a matter of reading, it's just a matter of being interested so you can apply those those skills and you're not overwhelmed with an opportunity to turret when you're faced with one that you don't you didn't know about, you know, either you've either seen something about read something or better or you know where to go to get the information to help you. Yeah, so as problem solving. I did that for a number of years. And in the meantime, I I continued to invest in learning and I enrolled in university and went to night school for nine years to finally get my degree. And that's remarkable, Dennis that in the meantime,
Dr. John Sherk: a lot of little sleep. Yeah,
Dennis King: I got a little bit of I got a little bit of sleep. I got married in the meantime and we started having children and and yeah So I was gone a lot. But then what
Dr. John Sherk: was record year, what triggered your move into management then
Dennis King: that started out I wanted to, I really enjoyed the engineering prospect of it. So I decided to try to spend some time internally with application engineering to better understand systems. Because I really wanted to understand what HVAC systems were about. And that prompted me to learn even more, because then you got into hydroponics and you got into airflow and you got into. The other thing is that in the mechanical pieces of equipment, that that are all comprised of the systems, and it's not just, you realize, it's not just one piece of equipment, you're dealing with systems effectively, that, you know, they're affected by each individual component within a system. And if one is not working, right, everything else gets affected in some way or another. Right. So then I did that, and then I had an opportunity just out of sheer coincidence, really, to get into sales. And that's where I felt like the opportunity was really, really add, I just felt like, Man, I needed to do that I wanted to get away from my tools. This is the way that life should work and, and it's gonna be better. Well, it wasn't better. It was a lot more frustrating. It was a lot more challenging. It seems so easy. I sat there as a technician, looking at the sales guys come in and go on partying at night entertaining, having a blast, not working, just sitting on their on their fat ass is what I want. Because by the way, and that our lead sales guy was a big fat guy. And I thought, wow, you know, this is this is the life I could do this. Yeah. Well, I did it, I forced myself to do it. And I did it very well. But it came with a toll. And one of the things that I've always missed was the feeling and the satisfaction I got from knowing I fixed something. And I know knowing that I walked away from something helping someone else and making it better than it was when I got there. Yeah. And as a salesperson, you got to find another way to get your satisfaction because most of what you get is rejection. Now you get a win occasionally. But then the next thing is like what are you doing for me lately? You know, what are you gonna go sell now? So, you know, I wouldn't discourage someone from getting into sales. But I know that one of the misconceptions I had as a technician was, oh, I had the sales, it was a way to go. Those guys had no interest. It's a completely different lifestyle.
Dr. John Sherk: Well, I have to say to that I've heard, like epic legendary stories of stress, working sales at JCI. Especially. Yeah. And I had lunch with a guy a few months ago. And I said, Well, what got you out of JCI. And he said, I had a JCI heart attack. So when the JCI heart attack, he said, Just a panic attack. I just, I just started, just started having panic attacks. I didn't, I didn't
Dennis King: have a panic attack. But I got to meet my doctor and got introduced to high blood pressure medicines. Oh, there you go. Yeah, there you go. So you know, you process it differently. Then continuing the journey. I did that for a number of years, and then had an opportunity to get into sales management. And I actually enjoyed that better. I made less money. But I enjoyed it more, because now I was helping people again. Yeah, so I was able to teach young folks, I was able to do more in a consulting role. And then I was, you know, what are you selling today and tomorrow? And how much should you sell? How are you going to sell the next day. And from there, it just grew into into an opportunity to get into branch management, regional management, and so on. And I found that was my niche. And as I matured, and as I grew I, I got more out of helping people than I did out of selling. You know, it's always fun to get a win, but that was never really what motivated me. Yeah,
Dr. John Sherk: I talked to a number of Tech's who, when I just ask them, What do you love about the work? It's kind of what you're describing. It's a combination of like troubleshooting, figuring things out, and then having a customer light up and say thank you so much. My, you know, my I just feel cold air coming on me. I can't believe you've done this. And they tell
Dennis King: you a story that might might help some folks as a technicians working in hospitals in western Kansas, and I had developed some really good friends with the engineering directors in some of these smaller rural hospitals and one gentleman in particular within By me to his home, I knew his wife and his kids and we'd have dinner together. And I was so proud of myself. I went out there the day that I, you know, the week actually after I'd gotten my salesman promotion, and I went out of my three piece suit, and I walked in, and he looked at me and he said, crap. So what do you mean? He said, Well, it's different now. And I said, I'm not any different than I was before. I can still help you. And he goes, now. He said, there's a whole different level here. Now. He said, I said, What do you mean, he's, let me explain it to you. He said, How many times is the administrator when you walk down the hall spoken to you? I said, Never. And he said, watch what happens today. We walked down the hall, here comes the administrator, he stops, shakes, his my hand introduces himself. And when I tell him who I'm with, he thanks me for the support, and so on and so forth. And then on his one off, his hot coffee goes, Wow, gentleman looked at me and said, See what I mean. What he said, no longer are you the trust, my trusted advisor. Now I've got one hand on my wallet, because I'm going to be concerned, your motivations are different than they were before. And I can no longer trust that. Everything you tell me will be exactly what I need to do. Wow. And from that day forward, we never went to his home again, he never invited me back to his family again. Why don't we completely differently?
Dr. John Sherk: Interesting, very interesting. Well, you know, that's a real dynamic, we have a number of listeners who are selling residential technicians. And that's that same dynamic. I've had it myself when, last year, we had a technician come and we ended up changing out our air conditioning unit. And the guy comes in the door and you don't know who he is. And he's charming. And he sounds like he knows what he's talking about. And they push us a quote in front of me, and it's like, well, what, what am I what am I looking at here? You know? So it's a real understanding. It's a real dynamic, and but at the same time, in that there's a dynamic inside that specific organization as well. You know, for that to be true. Yeah, we were, we were talking a little bit earlier that I think I've told this, this little joke about 100 times now, but it's, it's a running paradigm for how I'm encouraging people who are in management positions or ownership positions in their finishing companies to think differently. And it's just a dumb joke, but a bear and a rabbit are sitting in the woods next to each other. And the bear as rabbit, do you have problems with shit sticking to your for? The rabbit says Not really. So the bear websites asked what the rabbit? Alright, so our har, that's actually an old Eddie Murphy joke. But it's a paradigm. And when I, I, if there's when people ask me, What do I do? I tell them I help mechanical contractors make a difference for technicians using culture. And that the paradigm that starts coming out what like, what they start saying back to me is Oh, so you're telling me, I need to be nicer to the rabbits. I mean, if it isn't obvious, then the paradigm, the technicians, or the rabbits and that joke. And, and when I say is no that the idea is not to get nicer with the rabbits. The idea is, the idea is, there's only bears, there are no rabbits in this organization, there are only people worthy of the same level of respect across the board. And if you're if they're genuinely not worthy of that respect, they need to go. I mean, this is, when that's the case, you're at the point of building the right culture, you're building a culture in which technicians can come in, feel respected, be heard, and, and it doesn't really cost any money, you just have to make a choice to think differently. And to
Dennis King: Give you to pile on to that I don't look at it the same way a lot of people do. And you've seen the analogy of a triangle. Or you've got layers of people within an organization to the tip, right and the tip in the customer. I think that pyramids upside down. I think the base of that pyramid is the technician. Yeah, and think about it this way. The technician is who it's touching our customers. The technician is who's serving our customers, the technician is who satisfies our customers. And our job is met and management is simply to support them in their effort to do that. And if we truly think that way, they are the most important people in the organization because they're the closest to the revenue. Yeah. Oh, that's the way I look at management. And that's the way I look at a service organization and if you're in any successful service organization has figured that out,
Dr. John Sherk: Right. 100% Yeah, and that so For the technicians who are listening, that's, you know, we're living right now in a labor market where any technician in any company can get another job somewhere else anytime they want. I mean, unless there's some real baggage you're carrying around. And I'm not saying you're gonna go from being a residential installer, to working on 100 ton chillers on some skyscraper, but I am saying that sort of peer to peer kind of jobs, you don't have to work where you work, wherever you are listening to this, if you were in North America, you don't have to work where you work. And now there can be some concern about, and I will say, that's a good thing for the overall industry. It's frustrating to some managers and owners who see people come and go, or they see wages going up. But it's a good thing for the whole industry. Because on net, it's going to turn the technician role into a legitimate role that seen as a legitimate career job, a career path, and where people get respect, they get well paid. Think the days of six figure income for technicians are just right in front of us. And so I think it's a good thing. So if you're at work, and frustrated with your boss, and you feel like, you know, I've had enough or whatever, I encourage you to, to be bold, don't be a jerk, but be bold, and sit down and talk with him about what's frustrating. And if you feel like, you know, you just didn't want to make a move, then explore it. And even though that creates a little bit of churn, on a small scale, it writes the boat, in some ways for tech technicians on a larger scale. So, you know, take what Dennis was just saying, take it to heart that the if, if you are feeling a lack of respect where you are, don't just march out the door, sit down with him and say, Why is it like this? Because when you the formula for saying it would be another podcast with foreign for saying is when you blank, here's what happens, I feel disrespected? And then what's that behavior that they did? And give them that feedback? And give them a chance to say, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. Right? And if they say, Well, too bad, screw you, tech, rabbit. Well, then, you know, you're not where you want to be.
Dennis King: Yeah, that sounds like a pretty broken culture. But, you know, I see churn in two different ways, and through my experiences, and one is there's frustrations on behalf of the technician that we don't know about. They don't they just don't communicate it. They don't tell us Yeah, okay, so we can't fix it, or to, they're lured away by the dollar. And what I mean by that is that there's always a few that seem dead, that I can get $1 More somewhere else. Right, and they don't consider carefully the culture that they're going into. Yeah, you know, it's easy for an organization in the middle of the chaos and the hectic work schedule and everything else to to feel apathetic, or maybe not pay enough attention to what's going on in the field. You know, it's hard to stay in touch, you get isolated through, you know, the sheer pressures of business and all the other junk you got to deal with. That is not even you're not even aware of when you're out in the field every day. And you don't pay enough attention. And then, you know, people that are part of your, your key part of your company, don't feel appreciated. And that's when they need to speak up, because I would say most of the time, they do care. That's the lifeblood. Yeah, they're just not aware.
Dr. John Sherk: Well, and I would say that the there's a variety out there, because there's, you know, because I'm just for the record here, I've been Dennis up and my client for a number of years, on the consulting side of my business. And I would say that starts service has a remarkably good, high quality culture for technicians. And, but for example, one of the things I heard just last week on the phone with a technician and I said, so you want to make a change, and he had applied for a job with somebody that has a client. And I said, he said, why I think I have to, I said, you know, to deal he said, you know, the way this thing is set up. He's it's in the offseason now so it wasn't experiencing now but he's he knows summers coming. And he said in summertime, they don't tell us when it's the last call of the day. They just say you just keep catching him until the board's clear. So I can't tell my wife if I'll be home for dinner. I can't tell my kids. If I'm going to make it their sports practice. I guarantee I can't coach any of their teams. And it's because this thing is hard wired into the way they do business. And, and then in his case, he's one of the better tax at his company. And so they're the one he, they're the ones he always wants out there the most, or they always want out there the most, because he knows what he's doing. And he said, You know, I've been calling these guys tenure, Ted's, because they're in residential air conditioning, and it's about a 10 year process to get to that point where you're that guy, they trust you the most, you know what you're doing. And now it's like, what it feels almost like you're being punished for it. You know, and then there's other examples. So someone in North Louisiana I talked to, who was, was another residential company, and they had sales figures they had to meet. And so the owner decided the way to handle this was put up a wall of shame, and eight by 10s of everybody out in the field. And every week when they didn't meet their numbers, he could put their picture up on the wall shame so that they could come in and get humiliated in the weekly meeting. And these are the kinds of things that I would bet that the same. The the managers in these companies would say, oh, no, I love my texts. My texts are really important. And they just don't they don't make the connection, that what's actually happening to the tech when this stuff goes on. They just feel like, well, you know, business is tough, you just got to do what you got to do. And it doesn't translate into something better. It just, it keeps seeing a technician as a rabid instead of a real partner in the business.
Dennis King: Well, and you know, to your point there, John, that's a broken culture, in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe that's why we're able to continue to find good technicians is because we don't drink way. Yeah. But I you know, but I think it's inherently part of, and I think, for me, being a being a technician for so many years, still loving it and still respecting it. It's, it's, it's important to me, I don't think that I don't think like a bear and a rabbit. Yeah,
Dr. John Sherk: I agree with you. I just don't work is in line for almost eight years. I agree.
Dennis King: I just don't feel like that's, that's, that's productive in any way. And, and not just in a technician role. But if you look at other industries and other job classifications, no one should be thought of that way.
Dr. John Sherk: Right? Well, and I think it's an old paradigm. That's just, it's, it's hanging on to its last gasp, because the there was a lot of that kind of thing in the 70s. But there were there was high unemployment. There were a lot of people. And before that as well, that there was a lot of there were many more available people than there were jobs. And so it was much easier to say, Well, look, if you don't like it, I'll just take the next guy, and you can just move out now, but we can't do that anymore. Right? So and it's not in this changes, it's going to be at least a generation until that dynamic shifts, because we're still retiring to for everyone coming in. And that that pressure that's now getting put on owners and managers to be better. It's just driven by a market. It's not driven by a moralistic, you know, mandate to be better, because you should be. It's just the reality of the situation. And so, in technicians, shouldn't they need to know that they need to know that's happening?
Dennis King: Well, I think, you know, go back to what you said earlier, is extremely important to understand where we are from a labor market. And you I don't think you can overstate it. There are not enough people going into the trades right now. We're starting to see some interest in the junior high and high school levels. Again, we're, you know, through a lot of hard work by, you know, from some companies and people like yourself that are trying to encourage folks to consider that as a career because it is certainly a career. And absolutely, you know, my father being a very uneducated person, but extremely intelligent, not being able to go to high school because his dad died, and he had to go to work in a brick factory. had always said, learn a trade and you'll work and you'll eat forever. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, he's, that's, that's more true today than it was then. But, you know,
Dr. John Sherk: She really touched on something there too, that I think is super important for technicians. And it is to come to some resolve inside yourself, as to whether you've got a job or a career. And if you have a career, obviously, you're gonna think differently. If you have a job, the most important day of the week is Friday. If you have a career, the most important time in your life is the next five years. And so, a it just makes a person happier to live with that perspective. They're more motivated, they have more things they're looking looking forward to, and they they're more serious about developing their skills and and research clearly shows that as we get good at doing something, doing, it feels good. Like, it creates pleasure when you're when you're a rookie out on a job by yourself, and you don't know for sure, if you're right when you're troubleshooting, that's a scary situation. Right? But when you know, you know, and you get to walk up and confidently look at a piece of equipment, and, you know, you pull the cover off, and you know, you know what you're doing. That just feels great. Right? But that doesn't really you don't really get to that if you don't have a career. That doesn't really happen that way. Because you don't care.
Dennis King: That's a good point. And I adding on to that. Once a lot of things that I see what I see in a lot of people is they get good at something. And then they stop learning. Oh, yeah. And they're and they're done. They think they've made it. Well, and you know, it's like times doesn't standstill, things continue to progress. And suddenly now you're not. You're not keeping up. That's right. Yeah. So that's a danger in and of itself. And so I think your point about a career rather than a job is huge. Yeah, 100%.
And then I'll add to that, that Dell throws out there, Dennis, you tell me if you disagree or would say differently. The day you decide, you want to have a career. You work in a commercial setting. And so this, this is especially true for commercial technicians. But when I hear technicians talking about having a career in a commercial setting, they start talking about wanting opportunities to work on chillers. And I always say, Hang on, if you want to have a career, especially that's true in residential too, but especially in commercial, you have to commit yourself to being the Michael Jordan of customer service, the the most onpoint listening well spoken, know how to communicate status of a situation to a customer, the if you're the kind of person who customers ask for you again and again, they said, Can you please send him back this time, because we really like having him here, guess who they're going to invite to work on a chiller. It's you that dynamic of customer service. And again, it's true in residential, but it's they don't see when a recurring way like they do in a maintenance business. And so when you're the guy they want, you become confident they're going to renew that you're the person creating confidence that contracts renewed, that that relationship is solid with the people boots on the ground, it everything flows, opportunity wise, from your quality of customer service. And here's what's great about that. There's a little bit of skill involved, but not that much. It's really just wanting to help people and solve problems. And I mean, if you really commit yourself to that, you can have a career that goes almost anywhere. You
Dennis King: know, I add to that, one of the most respected man businessmen I ever knew and my career, made a comment one day when he was interviewing, he said, Well, so what are you looking for? And he said, I'm interviewing 80% on attitude and 20% on aptitude. Because if someone has the right attitude, I can train anyone. And that that goes to your point. But I want to add something else to you. Because you're right about the chiller tech being the the panacea, if you will. Yeah. But, systems today are more complex in the air-cooled VRF. Applied equipment still, but not a children's chiller-centric system necessarily. So the chillers are huge pieces of equipment that cost a lot of money, but they're just a big ol heavy, nasty motor with some impellers and some refrigerant in it. And you get into these other systems, these rooftop package units in these things. They're far more complex. They're far more technical. And I, in my opinion, take much more intelligence in in chutzpah to figure out these chillers.
Dr. John Sherk: Yeah, yeah, you know what that's a good point. Then. There are in fact, I have a friend Aaron, who is going to be on a podcast in a couple of weeks, who he's the owner of a residential company in Kentucky. And he's got 40 technicians and all he handles are high-end residential Siemens equipment. And there, he's got, I mean, they're all they all have their own control systems. And he's monitoring all of them from his office, and his residential work. And, I mean, these are these systems are really cool. Going online, in, not in not only in like, you know, a super brand new, commercial high rise or something, they're just coming online across the board. I'm