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You know that sinking feeling when you wake up with a hangover and think: “I’m never doing this again”? We’ve all been there. But what happens when you follow through? Sonia Kahlon and Kathleen Killen can tell you, because they did it! They went from sisters-in-law, to Sisters in Sobriety.
In this podcast, Sonia and Kathleen invite you into their world, as they navigate the ups and downs of sobriety, explore stories of personal growth and share their journey of wellness and recovery.
Get ready for some real, honest conversations about sobriety, addiction, and everything in between. Episodes will cover topics such as: reaching emotional sobriety, how to make the decision to get sober, adopting a more mindful lifestyle, socializing without alcohol, and much more.
Whether you’re sober-curious, seeking inspiration and self-care through sobriety, or embracing the alcohol-free lifestyle already… Tune in for a weekly dose of vulnerability, mutual support and much needed comic relief. Together, let’s celebrate the transformative power of sisterhood in substance recovery!
Kathleen Killen is a registered psychotherapist (qualifying) and certified coach based in Ontario, Canada. Her practice is centered on relational therapy and she specializes in couples and working with individuals who are navigating their personal relationships.
Having been through many life transitions herself, Kathleen has made it her mission to help others find the support and communication they need in their closest relationships. To find out more about Kathleen’s work, check out her website.
Sonia Kahlon is a recovery coach and former addict. She grappled with high-functioning alcohol use disorder throughout her life, before getting sober in 2016. Sonia is now the founder of EverBlume, a digital tool that offers a unique approach to alcohol recovery support.
Over the last five years, she has appeared on successful sobriety platforms, such as the Story Exchange, the Sobriety Diaries podcast and the Sober Curator, to tell her story of empowerment and addiction recovery, discuss health and midlife sobriety, and share how she is thriving without alcohol.
Her online platform EverBlume launched in February 2023, and was featured in Recovery Today Magazine and deemed an ‘essential sobriety resource’ by the FemTech Insider.
The company champions self-improvement and mindful sobriety, with support groups designed by and for women struggling with alcohol.
So how can EverBlume help you meet your sober community? By offering deeply personalized support. Members get matched based on their profiles and life experiences, and take part in small group sessions (max. 16 people). In your support group, you will meet like-minded women, discuss your experiences, and gain confidence, knowing you can rely on your peers in times of need.
Whether you identify as a binge drinker, someone who developed a habit during the Covid-19 pandemic, a high-functioning alcoholic, or an anxious person using alcohol to self-soothe… There is a support group for you!
Current EverBlume members have praised the company’s unique approach to alcohol detox. “No one is judging me for not being sure I want to be sober for the rest of my life” ; “I felt so heard and understood and today I woke up feeling empowered to make the change in my life”.
Feeling inspired? Learn more about the EverBlume sobriety community at joineverblume.com, or simply listen to Sisters In Sobriety.
Your sobriety success story starts today, with Kathleen and Sonia. Just press play!
[00:00:00] Sonia: Hi, we're Kathleen and Sonia and you're listening to Sisters [00:01:00] in Sobriety. Okay, Allie Shapiro Allie is a health coach, a speaker, and creator of the Truce with Food program.
[00:01:10] Kathleen: I I want to just shift and sonia if it's okay with you just shift to um food and alcohol, so How does alcohol affect blood sugar levels?
[00:01:20] Kathleen: And how does this impact your cravings?
[00:01:23] Ali: So when, again, and this is kind of this good bad that we've internalized is like, it's good not to eat. It's good to override your hunger.
[00:01:31] Ali: It's good to override cravings.but alcohol really puts your blood sugar on this rollercoaster ride and both the peaks and the valleys. Um, They create cortisol surges because your body doesn't like to have too much or too little. Our bodies are operating, I joke, on like the Apple IIe platform.
[00:01:52] Ali: I don't know if you remember Apple IIe's. They were like the original apples. That's what we had growing up. We had one of those growing up. But they're basically, they don't [00:02:00] understand our bodies. and this is, this is, That's why it's so important for me that people take food out of this moral issue of you're a good person or bad person based on what you eat or what you weigh.
[00:02:11] Ali: And we need to look at biological realities, which don't have any morals.
[00:02:15] Sonia: Mm. Mm.
[00:02:16] Ali: eat too much or too little, um, and especially with alcohol, and we get these peaks and valleys with our blood sugar, cortisol gets stimulated. And not only does that tend to make us store fat, but it also tends to, um, cause cravings. But it also, I think what's not talked about enough is it desensitizes us to flavor. So we end up needing more and more of the foods to, to register the same rate of satiety. So it's basically like an addiction to intensity. So if you think about when times in your life you've been really stressed, perhaps, and you go to food.
[00:02:54] Ali: It's not registering the same way as like when you're on vacation and relaxed. and so I think [00:03:00] that's one way that, that doesn't get talked about a lot, in terms of cravings. Um, but I think what ends up happening with alcohol and what I've learned from my own clients is it kind of satisfies that craving at first.
[00:03:12] Ali: But then it comes roaring back because of the, the, the sleep you don't get, which is a stress on the body. Any stress on your body is going to influence your blood sugar. Um, and then it's also, you wake up exhausted and tired and your blood sugar has tanked. And so you're already starting the day at a deficit.
[00:03:29] Ali: and a lot of people think it's good to skip breakfast or skip meals and then they just get caffeine and the whole cycle starts again. So, but one of the things that. from an emotional belonging standpoint, uh, around cravings is a lot of my clients, they feel like, well, I'm not drinking, so I deserve to eat this. And that's a big source of craving that that's an emotional craving. It's not physical. Does that register Sonia? I'm like,
[00:03:56] Sonia: Heck yeah. Yeah. I still do that sometimes. it's like, well, I'm [00:04:00] not drinking. So it does give me that. Yeah. Yeah. It kind of gives me permission to make worse choices because like, well, I worked out, I'm not drinking. I slept well. What else do you want for me? I can have
[00:04:13] Ali: yeah,
[00:04:13] Sonia: cream.
[00:04:13] Sonia: Yeah.
[00:04:15] Kathleen: I ask you, Allie, how do you know the difference between an emotional craving and a physical craving?
[00:04:21] Ali: Ooh, I love this. Yes. I love this
[00:04:23] Kathleen: I feel like they're tricky for me. Like, I don't know.
[00:04:27] Ali: Yes.
[00:04:28] Kathleen: know.
[00:04:29] Ali: Well, and it's hard, you know, this is a whole tangent, but I'm raised, my son is almost five and, and again, every framework has a lot to offer, um, but also as it's drawbacks and I think of intuitive eating, how it's like, well, if you just listen to your body, you'll know, but my son, if we didn't make him eat, he would never, he would rather play all day.
[00:04:50] Ali: and I know you're not supposed to make kids eat and it'll balance out, but like, if we didn't have regular mealtimes for him, everyone kind of makes it seem like, oh, kids know their bodies and all this stuff. [00:05:00] I don't know if that's true. And then you have a food system that is trying to hijack their satiety.
[00:05:06] Ali: You know, we were at a rest stop on the Pennsylvania turnpike and we went into seven 11 to get gas. And he saw the like big slurpee, like electric blue, electric green. He's like, I want one of those. And I was like, no, I'm not sitting, you're not going in a car seat for four hours, having a sugar meltdown with me.
[00:05:23] Ali: But I'm, I'm saying all of that because I think it's harder than people
[00:05:28] Kathleen: Mm hmm.
[00:05:28] Ali: make it out to be to really learn your body. So I'm just saying, Kathleen, you're not alone is
[00:05:33] Kathleen: No, I agree. I agree with you because I did Nesonia knows I did intuitive eating I tried it. I tried it I did a whole coaching program for like a year and a half and I couldn't I still couldn't figure out What my body needed, like I just, I still couldn't do it. Like I wasn't, is this emotional? Is this like me stressed out, tired, lonely, and that's why I'm reaching for the [00:06:00] sugar. Is it because like my body's just like, Hey, my body wants this. Or like I could never figure it out,
[00:06:07] Sonia: I always think this, it probably is pretty unhealthy, but like, if it's something not good for me, I think it's an emotional craving. Like,
[00:06:14] Kathleen: the thing you're, you're labeling it. Not good for
[00:06:17] Sonia: yeah,
[00:06:18] Kathleen: that, that right away triggers me, Oh,
[00:06:20] Sonia: yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm saying,I definitely have that issue where I like, I separate things into good and bad. And yeah, emotional would be my body can only be craving healthy food, right?
[00:06:32] Sonia: Physically. The other stuff has to be emotional.
[00:06:36] Ali: I love that example, Sonia, cause, um, that your definition of good. is influenced by what your parents
[00:06:43] Sonia: Heck yeah!
[00:06:44] Ali: right? Versus like, I always give this example, but my son's birthday is going to come up in two weeks and he wants a s'mores theme and we're doing a s'mores cake.
[00:06:52] Ali: And to me, sharing that cake with him is so good for both of us, right? It fulfills this. Now we don't [00:07:00] have cake all the time, but it's celebrating his birthday that he matters. and so when we think of good in the way that we've been in The inheritance of good, right? It's only that food should be functional and serving and versus like Kathleen talking about Thanksgiving.
[00:07:17] Ali: I think the process of cooking there and sharing with other people that is like a soul craving and nature even design food. To again, orient us to the seasons that we belong to the land. We belong to a bigger system and a bigger order than ourselves that we need, right? It's a it's it's why we give food to people when people have babies and die, right?
[00:07:42] Ali: It's like that is. The symbolism that we belong and it's, it's great in those circumstances. It's, it's not good for us when we're eating it alone and it's not making us feel good.
[00:07:53] Kathleen: it's so interesting you just said that because not to lower the mood, but my, my father passed away just three weeks ago and [00:08:00] one of, yeah, no, I'm good. I'm, I'm good. Everyone. I'm good. But one of the things that touched me more deeply than anything, of my friends in the neighborhood dropped off a casserole.
[00:08:11] Sonia: Mhm.
[00:08:12] Kathleen: And I needed that so badly. And it was food, you know, it was food. It was like provided the most comfort and it was food, but not in a negative way. Right. It wasn't, it was just like, Oh, belonging. Oh my gosh. This person actually cares for me. They reached out.
[00:08:28] Kathleen: Yeah,
[00:08:31] Ali: to cook one night. [00:09:00]
[00:09:01] Ali: Deborah McNamara, who I mentioned earlier, her book Nourished is amazing. I actually had her on my podcast. episode 280, everyone insatiable to talk about how her work intersects with it, with my work. Um, so for adults, cause she's a child psychologist, but she talked about how food growing up is ideally coupled with rest.
[00:09:19] Ali: It's supposed to bring us to rest so we can offer up our vulnerable emotions. And so, yeah, Sonia, you're like, Ooh,
[00:09:28] Sonia: Mhm.
[00:09:32] Kathleen: to work, like eating it or whatever, this is like, no, no. Obviously we know this, but no, for more reasons than one.
[00:09:40] Ali: Right. And so you can see why we end up with quote unquote emotional eating because we're working so hard at food that we can't process the, we're supposed to be at rest and sharing meals with other people. at our dinner table, what's the best part of your day?
[00:09:55] Ali: The hardest part of your day, like offloading, but instead the focus becomes [00:10:00] on what's everyone eating and, and stuff like that. But that's with your neighbor, right? You felt I mattered. and that's supposed to be that food is wonderful. Because how do you convey that to someone at that time? like, Oh, this is the symbolism of that. And so I want food to still be that for people, but I don't want it to be that for people when they're not actually getting the belonging. So to answer your question, Kathleen, about physical and emotional. Yeah, I think it's a lot more. I think it's a lot more complicated than most people think and I think that we can think of it in three buckets.
[00:10:36] Ali: There's when you're physically hungry, like when you can feel and what's challenging about physical hunger and intuitive eating, I think, is they only tend to register stomach hunger in your stomach. Do I feel full? Do I feel satiated? But if your body is no longer, if your body has sufficient nutrition, you will feel a lack of anxiety.
[00:10:59] Ali: You will [00:11:00] feel energized. You will feel satiated. And so you will feel, um, Everyone, everyone has these individual quirks. One of my clients was like, oh my god when she did some of the food experiments I gave her she's like my foot used to like tap anxiously and that stopped and so every body has its own quirks to know that like Oh, you're satiated.
[00:11:23] Ali: So we, when we only look in our stomach to feel like, am I, am I 80 percent full? We're not looking for our body's version of satisfied because again, our body needs nutrition to keep the lights. on it to give us energy. And what's hard about that is so many of us have normalized exhaustion. We've normalized cravings.
[00:11:45] Ali: We've normalized anxiety. We've normalized just feeling depressed and down. Um, so I think physical hunger is The easiest way for people to start with is like if they start feeling a lack of cravings is [00:12:00] probably where I would start for people and they start feeling more energized and I would go meal to meal.
[00:12:05] Ali: A lot of my clients I'm in my running my why am I doing this now program right now, which just focuses on the emotional and the conversation came up with people saying, you know, but I do feel better when I'm on whole 30 or for as long as I can stick with it. And I'm like, it's not whole 30 it's not the zone.
[00:12:23] Ali: It's these underlying tenants. biological realities of blood sugar. First and foremost, blood sugar, how you eat. So don't even pay attention to Whole30 or The Zone, whatever someone's commercially calling this. I have, and we can, I can give you the link. It's a free breakfast experiment that I give to people.
[00:12:42] Ali: And I'm like, I want you to try this oatmeal. I want you to try eggs with avocado and there's no moral judgment here, but I want you to pay attention for one to three hours and I give a whole sheet of what you should be paying attention to. I mean, it's like five [00:13:00] things. and it's like, I want you to start paying attention internally, not what you've been told is good or bad to eat.
[00:13:06] Ali: Right? I don't, I mean, some people still believe eggs are bad, right? But I've been doing this experiment with people for 10 years and it's like, Oh, I heard eggs were bad, but they make me feel so good. And I'm like, Okay, if you feel good and healthy now, That's the best chance you have of feeling good and hungry later instead of feeling like deprived and starved and not well So having people pay attention to these health these true health metrics that have nothing to do with weight Doesn't mean you might not lose weight or gain weight.
[00:13:34] Ali: I mean who knows but to actually change Adults need really quick feedback and quick quick wins. And so you want to say like, oh did I feel like much more creative in the morning. Like these are the questions that you want to start to ask meal to meal and you'll realize there's no one diet. It's just your blood sugar balance.
[00:13:54] Ali: So I think people starting to learn to balance their blood sugar is it's easy. People [00:14:00] start to realize about 50 percent of their emotional eating was deregulated blood sugar. So a lot of this is just,
[00:14:06] Kathleen: Really?
[00:14:07] Ali: yes,
[00:14:09] Kathleen: What?
[00:14:09] Ali: yes, yes. It's, it's, A lot of this is about clearing up stuff so that you can, you can hear yourself emotionally. So I can send you the link
[00:14:20] Sonia: Yeah.
[00:14:21] Ali: breakfast
[00:14:21] Kathleen: Send the link. For sure. We'll put it
[00:14:24] Sonia: I know Kathleen hates this, but it brings up an interesting thing. What do you think of semi glutides?
[00:14:28] Ali: Yeah. So I, so I am always like agnostic about interventions because I think you have to look at like, you know, So, some of my clients are on them, um, and some are, some are not, um, and I think they're being used incorrectly. So, people don't, so, the dose determines the poison, right? anyone who, um, is on any medication often knows that, um, The dosing, like, you know, my dad has [00:15:00] a very serious diagnosis and his
[00:15:02] Sonia: Hmm. Hmm.
[00:15:03] Ali: the right medic medication dose. Right? And so I think with these peptides, I think of them as peptides because they are basically manufacturing satiety hormones that the body I think when people are using them in conjunction with. strength training, um, A whole foods diet
[00:15:27] Sonia: Hmm.
[00:15:28] Ali: dosing them because the way that they've been, the suggested dosage was just to get the FDA to approve them and the FDA just needed to see results.
[00:15:38] Ali: So, it wasn't very scientific, so I think it gives people a leg up. I think sometimes it can help people. I have some clients who they were doing all the things, but because of age, because of trauma, because of stress, their insulin sensitivity was just off. And this is a more delicate conversation of, um, that [00:16:00] health, that is why I want us to take weight out of a moral issue.
[00:16:05] Ali: I just don't think. What you weigh says anything about you. And I think it's wonderful that we've had the health at every size movement to start to bring up some of this stuff. But there, there, as you age, as there is a certain tipping point where if you continue to gain weight, there's a metabolic, a metabolic storm that can happen.
[00:16:26] Ali: but it's not, it's not a moral issue. It's a biological reality. So I think some of these peptides can help people, satiated again, feel like they have a chance at this. Because again, the way that I view it is our built environment is set up to make people sick. Like you have to work so hard to be healthy that why are we And I think if this wasn't a weight loss drug and there wasn't so much obesity stigma and fat stigma, we wouldn't even be having these conversations.
[00:16:59] Ali: So, [00:17:00] um, yeah, so that's, that's my thought on low dose.
[00:17:04] Kathleen: knows I have like some viewpoints on it because I think it's, am worried. And then also for myself. I feel like,it's being used as another tool for disordered eating. And so where people who do not need it are using it and it's actually just another tool for massively disordered eating.
[00:17:26] Kathleen: Are
[00:17:30] Ali: on the person because I know the clients that I'm working with like they do Because of our work together, they do all the things and they were still struggling with things like PCOS and infertility or Edema and joint pain and the other thing that at these low doses Some of these, peptides can be really healing, and regenerative.
[00:17:49] Ali: So I'm interested in, the health effects of, if you can help people be more insulin sensitive, um, that, that makes them feel more, [00:18:00] more satisfied. But it also, the, the health effects of that,are beneficial, yeah.
[00:18:06] Kathleen: though if you go off of it?
[00:18:09] Ali: so if you do everything else and you're low dosing it, right.
[00:18:12] Ali: And you're,
[00:18:13] Sonia: Hmm.
[00:18:14] Ali: you should be fine. Yeah.I mean, then this gets into like people not understanding how weight loss actually works thinking it's just about a calorie deficit, but
[00:18:22] Sonia: It's not?
[00:18:23] Ali: it's about you actually, because
[00:18:26] Kathleen: No, it's not. No, Sonia's a calorie counter. She
[00:18:29] Sonia: Yeah, sort of, yeah. I, like, I don't actually count them, but I'm aware of, like, how much I ate and, like, how much I worked out,
[00:18:38] Ali: Yeah, it it is and it isn't so I'm gonna ask you to hold the and so it's how you achieve that calorie deficit because So some of the people on the semi glutides, they're basically it's like basically medically induced anorexia Which then ends up happening is you lose all your muscle and it's very unsafe that I'm all about safety signals Whether it's [00:19:00] belonging getting the right foods getting enough calories.
[00:19:03] Ali: So your body does not like You're, again, because your body's just like, okay, if we're eating a lot of food, that means the famine's coming. If we don't have a lot of food, it means the famine's here. Either way, we're storing fat because we need to slow this ship down. So again, the body's not looking at any of this as a moral thing.
[00:19:24] Ali: It's just like, I, I, I've got a biological imperative to keep you alive and this is what I'm going to do to keep you alive. what's been fascinating is my clients who are low dosing it, their strength training, they're increasing their muscle mass. at a very low dose because it's healing, but I'm also,
[00:19:41] Sonia: Hmm.
[00:19:42] Ali: do not prescribe.
[00:19:43] Ali: I do. I'm just kind of counsel for them based on what I've listened and my one client, her doctor wanted her to go up to the next dose. And I said, but I said, but it's still working at this dose.She can do 10 push ups now. She's thrilled like because she's also working with a trainer, right?
[00:19:57] Ali: So she's actually gaining strength and I [00:20:00] said I think of everything as a safety signal So if you're losing weight too fast meaning more than one to two pounds a week The body's like and soshe's feeling it out as she goes. She's I don't make any decisions for her, but she's staying on the first dose and she's continuing to lose and she's having, she's sleeping better, like her moods are better, like she's just having a lot of health benefits.
[00:20:23] Ali: And I said, when you want to come off these, what we need to do is slowly increase your calories. Because the way that I tried to lose weight in the 80s or 90s is you thought like, oh, if you're at 1, 200 calories, you have to stay there. No, no, no, no, no. That's not enough for your body to do what it needs to do.
[00:20:40] Ali: So she's, she's right now at around like 1700 calories and losing about two pounds a week. So I said, what we're going to do though, is if this is your goal weight, your goal weight needs about 2000 calories to basically maintain your weight. So what, as you wean off of these, if you decide that's what you want to do, [00:21:00] So we're going to add like 50 calories a week so that you, because your metabolism has now adapted, but we want to get you back up to 2000 so that you can maintain your muscle.
[00:21:11] Ali: Because weight maintenance is largely dependent on muscle. So if
[00:21:16] Sonia: No, no.
[00:21:17] Ali: gone off on a tangent, does that make sense?
[00:21:19] Kathleen: No, we went off on a tangent too. We went
[00:21:21] Ali: okay. It's like how you lose it and how you maintain it is really important rather than just a calorie deficit is a calorie deficit because. You just want to pace yourself and you still, your body again, right now she's on 1700 calories.
[00:21:37] Ali: She needs at least that to maintain, you know, cause she's active, right? Like her basic, rate, like not getting out of bed is like 1600 calories, right? Like she needs at least that. So we also, our understanding of what a calorie deficit is, is also warped. Like people were trying to do 1200, 1500, like
[00:21:56] Sonia: Yeah.
[00:21:57] Ali: so I'm just talking about sustainable weight loss,
[00:21:59] Sonia: I [00:22:00] think that actually brings me to that next question, which I've been complaining about a lot, which is, how do women in midlife struggle with food and alcohol differently than earlier stages? I know for me, if I had a dress I wanted to fit into two weeks before, I could just kind of like Start eating salads and like all of a sudden the dress fit and now it's like Losing five pounds or doing any of that.
[00:22:28] Sonia: Like it's just everything feels so much harder
[00:22:32] Ali: I went through postpartum and menopause at the same time and had so much, yeah, yeah, it's, I was in the underworld for three years and I, I was like, so proud of myself for not weighing myself, but then I was getting really bad foot pain and I got weighed a year postpartum and I was, 30 pounds above my pre pregnancy weight.
[00:22:52] Ali: And I was like, what happened? Cause I don't binge. I don't, and it was during the pandemic. I walk so much. So it has taken me three [00:23:00] years to lose 25 pounds. So I hear you like, so when I'm talking about insulin sensitivity and insulin resistance, that is exactly what you're experiencing. So as we go through menopause, Estrogen really helps us stay insulin sensitive.
[00:23:17] Ali: So insulin sensitive is just kind of like you eat food and it goes into your cells pretty easily. Um, a metaphor I often use with my clients is think of, um, Insulin is kind of like the key that unlocks the door to getting food into your system. So that registers as satiety, that registers as balanced blood sugar so you can sleep through the night.
[00:23:37] Ali: But as we as we decline in estrogen and estrogen goes down, it's almost like glue gets in the lock and so it gets harder and harder for you to feel satisfied. And which means more of what you eat gets stored as fat. And so that's,
[00:23:55] Sonia: Terrible terrible
[00:23:57] Ali: if you [00:24:00] don't catch, and again, some, there's, there's some like about five pounds can be of weight gain can be healthy in the menopause transition but A lot of times what happens because of stress, because of our food supply, because of emotional issues that we've been told are willpower and discipline, but our belonging issues, it starts to create this metabolic storm where, as you become more and more insulin. So, you want to be insulin sensitive. If you, the more insulin insensitive you become, what ends up happening is, more things get stored as fat. You get more inflammation. And then, and then you're also losing the protective benefits of progesterone. and estrogen at the same time, and it creates this like metabolic storm that can lead to more and more weight gain.
[00:24:48] Ali: That is, is like the, it's visceral fat. It's the fat around the organs that is dangerous. So that's why I'm saying weight loss is a very delicate conversation because, and that's why I want us to take it out of this [00:25:00] moral issue because then it's like, you're a good person or you're a bad person versus I'm like, no, I just want people to understand.
[00:25:06] Ali: Um, biological realities and how to be as healthy and age as well as possible. And so for my clients who are lifting and strength training, right, the semi glutides are like my one client who I'm talking about is going through perimenopause. It's actually helping her maintain and your muscle. Your muscle can they're now considering it like the largest organ in the body is it can seep up so much glucose So it helps you with that insulin sensitivity So I think that these these peptides again low dosed and again, I'm not I can't dose don't I'm not giving people, like, talk to your practitioners, like, but it's something to talk to them about.
[00:25:46] Ali: and I know a lot of doctors, cause we follow some Reddit threads of, on the topic of food noise. Cause that's, you know, for marketing purposes. And, um, a lot of people in the Reddit threads are, working with doctors who will keep them on lower doses and stuff. So I [00:26:00] think it can be a tool, but I think they only work the best if you have all the other.
[00:26:05] Ali: foundational stuff that is simple but not easy,
[00:26:09] Kathleen: So you, it's like you, you're saying basically they can work for you. They can be healthy addition to, other
[00:26:16] Ali: but they're like a supplement. They're not the
[00:26:18] Kathleen: right? They're not the answer. Exactly. They're not. I say this all the time with ADHD because I have ADHD and I work with a lot of people who have ADHD that medication is one tool in the toolbox, but you need all the other tools or else like it's not going to fully work.
[00:26:34] Kathleen: There's going to be something else is going to happen or you're not going to like, so it's the same thing. It's one tool in the toolbox or
[00:26:40] Ali: And you know, it's funny that you bring up ADHD. I have a client who has some, she's trying to get pregnant and fertility stuff. And so she's been using these peptides, very low dose. She finds her ADHD is better on them and she's not shopping as impulsively. cause she had worked through her food stuff.
[00:26:56] Ali: Yeah. That's what I'm saying. on a low dose. There's a lot of research [00:27:00] that these are beyond because of the healing effects on the body. So that, again, I think peptides, the longevity community has been using these for decades, right? But no one's been judging them because they're for biohacking and for, for productivity of increasing your lifespan.
[00:27:19] Ali: So there's a lot of research around the health benefits of these that I'm like fascinated. Like the first generation, of these peptides was called liraglutide and a big research paper came out that helps Parkinson's. it can be shown to support Parkinson's
[00:27:35] Sonia: Yeah. I read that.
[00:27:36] Ali: something in the brain.
[00:27:37] Ali: And one of these things, these peptides have taught us is we don't really understand hunger because it's signaling something in the brain, right?
[00:27:44] Ali: I have one client. So many of her inflammatory issues went away, like literally overnight of taking this one of the, the, I forget which one she's taking because she's a, she's a former client. but she's like her asthma, her allergies. And this is again, [00:28:00] like, chicken or egg, like, you know, what I realized, I, I had pesticide exposure when I was like five or six years old, I had rash for two weeks, but that's when I started gaining weight.
[00:28:10] Ali: Like, when I look back at like, what caused me to gain weight, it was my, the inflammatory reaction to pesticides. So, but I thought it was a calorie issue, so. I went to Weight Watchers, right? But really, it was, I have, you know, and then 18 months later, I'm diagnosed with an immune cancer for having an overactive immune system.
[00:28:30] Ali: And it's like, oh my God, I thought I had a calorie problem where I had an inflammation problem, probably way back then. And if that would have been caught,
[00:28:39] Sonia: Mm.
[00:28:39] Ali: cancer? I don't know. I mean, that's, you know, who knows? so it's, it's teasing out health and weight is something I've had to do the past.
[00:28:49] Ali: I guess, and it's a lot more complicated, but I feel like we can't even have the conversation when we're
[00:28:54] Ali: still thinking people are good or bad based on
[00:28:56] Kathleen: agree.
[00:28:58] Ali: What they eat or what they wear. [00:29:00] What, what Kathleen?
[00:29:01] Kathleen: No, I was just, I was just, I was echoing that like we have to get past this good or bad. Like we do. We
[00:29:08] Ali: That's irrelevant to me. Like I just, and, and, and I think too, as practitioners, like I have really worked through body image, food stuff. So I don't judge anyone. I don't judge myself anymore. even when I got on the scale then, I mean, I cried because I'm human, but it was just the bigger thing of like, I hadn't slept in two years.
[00:29:25] Ali: I had foot pain, like I, and I was like, what is going on? My life is like blowing up. but I, called the adult version of belonging. Like I had my own back. Like I didn't make any drastic decisions. I. And I lost weight in a way that prioritized my health. and so it's, but I'm glad that I, I knew how to do that because I got off a metabolic train that would have been really hard to reverse if I didn't, um, take care of that, but I didn't look at it as like about my worth.
[00:29:54] Ali: Like I, Kept up doing my life. Nothing was, I wasn't like, Oh, I'm 30 pounds heavier. I can't do [00:30:00] this or that. Like I just kept living my life. because I just don't see it as a
[00:30:04] Sonia: what's so important is I'm trying to work on teasing out the difference between health and weight. And I really want to be able to do 10 push ups like that's really important to me.
[00:30:13] Ali: for your aging too, like to really be
[00:30:16] Ali: yeah, that's been like a goal.but for me, yeah, it is a combination, right? Like if I'm, you know, if you think, okay, if I'm X number of pounds overweight or whatever, it's going to be harder to do. The pushups, right?Well, it depends on what It depends
[00:30:31] Sonia: yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure. This is fascinating.
[00:30:37] Ali: It's a lot more nuanced and complicated than no one likes to hear. It depends. It's easier to just like, ah, you know, like get enraged on social media. But I do think, Kathleen, like you talking about, like, I don't want to be around people dieting and all that stuff. stuff. There, I think we have to go through a phase of that where we need a break from that.
[00:30:59] Ali: You know what [00:31:00] I mean? Like before we, I'm, I'm, I gave up dieting as I knew it, 20 something years ago. And then I've done the deep emotional healing. So for me, I mean, I think dieting too rests on thin at any cost and 60
[00:31:17] Kathleen: hmm. Mm
[00:31:18] Ali: my approach is, what if weight loss can actually strengthen your relationship to yourself?
[00:31:23] Ali: It's going to be slow, but it's going to be sustainable. It may not be as much weight as you want to lose, but if we really focus on this view of safety and giving yourself the nutrition you need, the rest you need, and then doing the deep emotional work, um, around actually getting your, your belonging needs satiated and then food, you don't have to white knuckle food.
[00:31:43] Ali: You don't need. Keep your food in the house. Keep it out of the house. It doesn't matter because it's not about the food It just becomes food just becomes food And you you learn to welcome back those awkward silence lonely parts of [00:32:00] yourself and you probably wouldn't have done this work unless it was attached to health and weight in food
[00:32:05] Kathleen: For sure.
[00:32:06] Ali: Food is something that we do three times a day.
[00:32:08] Ali: So it really preoccupies us
[00:32:11] Kathleen: Ali, I want to work with you and I think other people are going to want to work with you. So how do people find you and how do people work with you?
[00:32:20] Ali: So my favorite way for people to work with me is in my truths of food group, it opens in January. Um, and it is six months of learning what foods work best for you. Not by me telling you and being some guru, but me giving you really, um,
[00:32:37] Sonia: love this.
[00:32:39] Ali: so that you come to these conclusions yourself.
[00:32:41] Ali: You want to want to make the healthy choice instead of trying to be perfect on my plan. I don't have a plan, I just have steps. And then we work on the belonging piece. What is the story that causes you to fall off track and kick up your food noise and your food choices? And we go through that to go from [00:33:00] this, you know, adolescent form of belonging to what we call the self authoring of your story form of belonging.
[00:33:07] Ali: So that starts in January. So if you people can go to alishapira. com and they can sign up for my newsletter and they'll get all the information. And then I have my podcast Insatiable, um, which I always recommend people listening to that because you'll know if like, this for me or not? and then I also, it's a shorter program that's running right now, which is called Why Mighting This Now, which runs in the fall, but by the time, um, so people aren't quite ready for Truths with Food.
[00:33:31] Ali: Why am I eating this now just focuses on the emotional piece, um, which can be really helpful. And if people take why am I eating this now, I do credit what they pay,
[00:33:42] Sonia: Oh, I love that.
[00:33:43] Ali: with food. So, um, Yeah, yeah, because this work takes a little bit of time. So, uh, it's a slow going process.
[00:33:50] Ali: and then also if people do want to get started right away with that, after that free breakfast experiment, they could also, I have a freedom from cravings, self study program. That's [00:34:00] 67 that gives you experiments, and really easy recipes. I don't like to cook. So these are not complicated. They're like, I have this in my fridge recipes.
[00:34:10] Ali: because Most of my clients find, when they're done with our work, they don't care about food as much as they thought they did. It was just this, this, the, they didn't have the right foods for their body and the belonging and they, they weren't getting the care they needed, um, which is why they had so many, so much food noise.
[00:34:26] Ali: awesome. Lots of choices for our listeners. That's for sure. You are a gift, Ali. Honestly, you are a gift.
[00:34:35] Sonia: and we would love to have you back and go over like some of the principles of truce with food, and that approach and talk a little bit more about like gut health and that would be amazing.
[00:34:43] Ali: I would love to, I would love to
[00:34:44] Ali: come back
[00:34:45] Sonia: Kathleen.
[00:34:47] Ali: Thank you for having me and being so open. That's what makes for a good conversation. So, I love what you guys
[00:34:52] Ali: are doing in the world too.
[00:34:54] Kathleen: Thanks for listening to sisters in sobriety and we'll see you all next week.