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Welcome to Portfolio Perspective: Managing Risk & Seizing Opportunity, a podcast focused on the asset-based lending industry. Join Andrew Pace, Chief Client Experience Officer at Asset Compliant Solutions, as he interviews experts, shares insights, and explores strategies for managing risk, optimizing portfolio performance, and seizing opportunities in an ever-evolving financial landscape. From regulatory changes to technological advances, each episode provides actionable takeaways and deep dives into industry trends. Whether you’re a lender, servicer, or recovery expert, this podcast offers valuable perspectives to enhance your approach and improve outcomes.
It's really important for people within a leasing company, any kind of leasing company to understand that, you know, I used to always say credit is there to kill my deals. No. They're actually there to make sure I have a job to go back to.
Andrew:Welcome back to ACS Portfolio Perspective. I'm your host, Andrew Pace, Chief Client Experience Officer at ACS. Joined today by Reid Reykovich, CEO of the Certified Lease and Finance Professional Foundation. Reed has spent more than a decade transforming the CLFP Foundation into the equipment finance industry's premier certification body. Under her leadership since 2012, the CLFP community has grown by over 1100%, from 150 members to nearly 1,800 today.
Andrew:She began her own career in equipment finance at Great American Insurance, where she herself earned her CLFP designation, and went on to hold roles at McCorman Leasing, Irwin Commercial Finance, and Financial Pacific Leasing, before taking the helm at the foundation. Reed's impact has been widely recognized across the industry. She's received the CLFP Foundation's Cindy Spertle Award of Excellence, being named Leasing News Person of the Year, and earned multiple honors from Monitor Magazine, including recognition as one of the industry's most powerful and influential women, and as a pioneer icon. Reid, welcome to the show.
Reid:Thank you for having me.
Andrew:You're welcome. You have one of the most inspiring career paths in equipment finance, and you have led the CLFP Foundation through extraordinary transformation. I want to start by going back to the beginning so listeners understand the journey that brought you here. So let's talk about those early days. When you stepped into this role, the foundation looked very different than it does today.
Andrew:What was the state of the foundation when you took the helm, and what were the biggest challenges you felt needed to be addressed first?
Reid:Yeah. The state of the foundation was not good. Well, we'll just start there. There was jokes that the CLFP breakfasts that we would have at conferences that we put around a hat to collect money. I had no idea what I was getting myself into.
Reid:We had about $6,000 in the bank, hadn't filed taxes in ten years. To say that I had a lot to do is putting it mildly. But if anyone knows me, they know I love a challenge. Something I'm really proud of is my dad actually was a turnaround or bank turnaround executive. And so when I found out that it was really a turnaround job, I talked to him.
Reid:I said, How do I do this? And he said, Talk to the people who know you and trust you, and that will pay back tenfold. And so that's what I did. I really had people on the board that was passionate about the designation. Maybe I didn't know them that well, but they knew me and respected me, and and that kinda changed it.
Reid:I mean, if you think about where we came from, the designation this can be shocking to everyone. But there are some people in our industry that aren't so ethical. And especially in the broker world, you know, sometimes brokers get a bad bad breath, and they do not deserve it. And so this came out of a desire to bring ethics and professional standards. And so what started there then turned into an eight hour exam, which I hate saying because then everyone's like, I'm never gonna be a CLFP.
Reid:But, you know, I I just leveraged people. We have two or 300 volunteers at any time, and, you know, we're able to scale from a 150 to 1,800 when we only have three employees. That's obviously going to be different with the affiliation, but we'll talk about that later.
Andrew:So how did your own path into equipment finance shape the way you approached leading the foundation?
Reid:I, as everyone else, fell into this, And I really came I came from a service provider. So this this kinda doesn't answer your question, but it all about why I'm I'm a CLFP and and why I'm at the foundation. You know, I was a salesperson, and I would go on sales calls. And with my my customers and my clients, they would talk about operating leases. They would talk about these things, and I acted as though I knew what they were talking about.
Reid:Guess what? I had no clue what they were talking about. And finally, I went through the program, and it was really hard, but it paid so many dividends. Because I I was able to talk to our clients and customers and really understand what was keeping them up at night and then tailor solutions for them. And then what happened from there was my mentor, Jim McCorman, called me one day.
Reid:I was at Great American and said, hey. Are you interested in director of operations? Sure. Why not? After that, I got a call from Urban Commercial Finance and then a call from FinPac.
Reid:And so my whole career has been I think things are usually done pretty well, but how can they be better? And, you know, I think that's what I challenge my two employee, my staff is things are great, but they can be better. And every year, I want to keep doing that.
Andrew:And for those who may be newer to the industry, what would you say are the biggest advantages a CLFP brings to professionals across the equipment finance spectrum?
Reid:And there's I always go back to perks. It's cheesy, but why people do it. So professionalism. Mhmm. You know?
Reid:Having those letters after your name states that you not only pass an exam, hopefully, you actually understood what was on the exam. Ethics. Already talked about that before. Recognition. I know some people who like to collect designations.
Reid:I do have a CAE as well, but that's the last certification I'm getting, but some people just like to do that. And then the PERK is knowledge. I mean, why don't you wanna know what you're you're doing? And I I think, honestly, it's really important for people within a leasing company, any kind of leasing company to understand that you know, I used to always say credit is there to kill my deals. No, they're actually there to make sure I have a job to go back to.
Reid:So getting that knowledge, and then staff. We do see some companies who say you can't rise above a certain level unless you get the designation.
Andrew:Why would you say are professional standards and ethical guidelines such an essential part of strengthening industry credibility?
Reid:Big thing for us right now is regulations, right? It's ever increasing, and especially when we lobby Capitol Hill, you know, saying that we're already self policing is is a is a big thing. We want the government to stay out, we can keep doing the ethical things that we're doing, which is empowering businesses. So that's something I'm really looking forward to, is that we're actually going for a full accreditation, and I think that will carry a lot of weight.
Andrew:So we've seen more service providers get involved in recent years, from IT vendors to attorneys to insurers. What value do you think they gain from understanding equipment finance through the CLFP lens?
Reid:Scott, what I went back to before is that you you you really don't understand the equipment finance world. I will tell you my dad was a very, very, very smart man. He was a banker, but he kind of thought of equipment finance as being dirty. And it's not, but it is so specialized and so niche that you can better tailor products and solutions and honestly have more intelligent conversations with people if you actually understand what they're saying. Now don't get me wrong.
Reid:I think one of the biggest drawbacks in our industry is that we have the same we have different names for the exact same product. And I know that's a it's a big problem for IT vendors, especially because when they're coding, you know, let's say, finance specific leasing calls it one thing. Great America calls it something else. And it's it's mind boggling, and that's that's something else that I wanna tackle going forward is a standardization for our industry. And by the way, we already have a handbook that goes over that, so it's not going be that difficult.
Andrew:Right. Right. So let's transition into the next segment. So one thing people always talk about is the sense of community within the CLFP network. It's not just a certification, it feels like a professional family.
Andrew:In your view, what is the secret sauce behind the relationships and sense of camaraderie that formed during the certification process?
Reid:So that's twofold. The one thing I will tell you is, and I was talking about this earlier today, is if you go to a conference and you see someone has CLFP after your name, you automatically have a bond because you went through something together. I'm not gonna liken it to a war or battle, but you've gone through something. It's daunting, but it's so rewarding when you get that. But the other thing that I think is really important is we see companies who really invest in their employees, and they have cross functional, cross departmental meetings.
Reid:So they'll study for it every week. And so you'll have Betty from credit, you'll have Tom from sales, and then you'll have people from the back up back end, I mean, portfolio administration. It's it creates this camaraderie and community where you get an understanding far why someone does the way they do it. And, you know, hopefully everyone passes because then it's that awkward moment where I've had classes where everyone passes up for one person at a company, but that happens, and that's part of also what gives us some credibility. Not everyone's going to pass.
Andrew:Me being one of them, and I'll
Reid:say- I was not going to Nope. I never do that.
Andrew:That's okay, but I will, and I will say it's not a layup, nor should it be, and that's a credit to you and your team, because for those that passed, they've earned something special, right? Yeah. Yeah. To me, it's like the bar exam of the equipment finance.
Reid:We have attorneys say it's more difficult just to make you feel better.
Andrew:Well, there was only a few sections I failed, and I know what sections were, but I actually had Paul on a few days ago. We did an episode. We talked about the CLFP, and I told him, I'm not a quitter. I just took a long pause from the test, so I'll get back on the horse and I will take it. Before I fade off into the sunset in this industry, I will get those designations.
Andrew:I promise you that.
Reid:Never held you.
Andrew:So you talked a little bit about companies and how they get involved as far as using the CLFP training to bring different departments together and creating that shared understanding of the business. Do you have some examples of that?
Reid:Yeah, and Huntington and DLL are two that come to mind, and US Bank, but they have a training program that is amazing because then they almost always pass because each week they go over a topic and they have enough CLFPs that they can go over that topic as subject matter expert, and go over it, answer questions. And then I think what's really helping teams right now is using Kahoot or, for people who don't know, using kind of competitive gaming to get people to stay interested. I will tell you that, you know, I'm instituting that now even for our board meetings just to keep people engaged. But, you know, going through sometimes we have I think we have a nine, ten, and a twelve week process that we we've outlined for companies, and the success rate is phenomenal. I will tell you that those bonds that are made I mean, I'm still friends with people I took the test with, and that was in 2003, so a while ago.
Andrew:I've heard many stories of competitors becoming collaborators because they share that designation that you just talked about. Why do you think that dynamic happens so naturally?
Reid:Well, I think what's really, really cool about the CLFP designation is unlike any other association, it's individual. Right? So we see that people are connecting on a human level more than on a business level. Something that we do right now that I'm really proud of, a gentleman on our board, Andrew Berkowitz, came up with an idea to have a crisis committee. So if there's a crisis or when the wildfires happened, we pulled a list of where people lived and contacted them.
Reid:They actually called everybody and said, Are you okay? If not, here's what we can do. And it goes back to just being individual designation. I mean, competitors are competitors, but it's typically the companies. It's not the people.
Reid:Right? That's the way it should be.
Andrew:Absolutely. Yeah. So the foundation relies heavily on volunteers. Makes this grassroots model so effective and sustainable?
Reid:Honestly, I don't know, but whatever's happening, I love it. We have people who are constantly asking me, How can I get involved? How can I get involved? We actually have spreadsheets of people who have been asking for years, and we do rely heavily on volunteers also to progress into our board. So in the past, you know, maybe we'd have board members who just wanted to pad their resume.
Reid:No. I mean, that's fine. A lot of people do that, but our board is a very much a working board. And so to actually get onto our board, you have to be on the committee, then a chair, and then be recommended. But I think it goes back to the people.
Reid:There's that badge, that sense of recognition that's like, I would say pride. And everyone who's gone through I shouldn't say everyone. There's always gonna be someone who's gone through it didn't have the best experience. I will tell you one of my favorite things to tell employers, never force your employees to do it ever. They have to see what's in it for them.
Reid:And I think that, you know, as I said before, when we go to conferences, it's crazy how the CLFPs just kind of belong onto each other. Wouldn't say that. I mean, it's just a community.
Andrew:Well, I think if somebody's forced to do it, they're less likely to take the ownership, and if it's something that they want to do, they're more likely to have that ownership and most likely pass, right? Just because of that. Right.
Reid:Yeah. Or if they don't pass, they take it again.
Andrew:I know. I know. Like I said, I just took a long pause.
Reid:I got
Andrew:I want to pay a higher fee. I'm just waiting for it to get more and more expensive- Oh, that's problem. So I can support the foundation, right?
Reid:I do want to add though that that one thing I've seen lately is people being more open about not passing. That's the reality. The sweet spot is between sixty five and seventy percent of people passing. Too many people are passing, then it's not rigorous enough. We also don't want everyone failing.
Reid:And I think I love it when people come out and say, hey. I didn't pass. There was one woman from DLL who was putting on there. She had failed, I think, two or three times. And the outpouring of support from CLFPs saying, don't give up.
Reid:You can do this was so heartwarming because, you know, not everyone admits when they fail, which is why I would never even bring it up for you. Is your business. It's not for me to share. We have a board member, former board member who failed, I think, four times. She's very open about it.
Andrew:I have nothing to hide. Like I said earlier, I think it's a credit to the CLFP Foundation and you and your team. It should be a difficult test because if it was easy, everybody would have it, right?
Reid:Yep. Doesn't mean anything.
Andrew:Right. Exactly. So let's talk about the growth of the foundation. It's been remarkable, and now you have the new ELFA affiliation, which is a major milestone. So let's talk about how that changes the landscape for the CLFP community.
Andrew:What does the new affiliation mean for the foundation and for professionals across the industry?
Reid:Yeah, this was something that was not on my bingo card at all. I was approached last January. I was just kind of in my old world thinking, you know, global domination. We're gonna keep doing everything. And, you know, it was a very thoughtful process.
Reid:Our board of directors, especially our Excom, was really thought about this. You know? And we kept going back to our mission, which is building a better commercial equipment finance industry one individual at a time. So does this make sense for that? Absolutely.
Reid:100%. The big thing is I I made a joke on LinkedIn that, you know, I I'm now getting rid of my head of IT, head of legal, head of finance, head of HR. I don't have to do that anymore, which relieves so much administrative burden that I think our growth is gonna go through the roof. We also didn't have the bandwidth accreditation for people who don't know, why would you know about this? But it's a 100 page document.
Reid:It's extremely expensive. It can take up to three years to get it done. And we wanted to do it, but we just didn't have the bandwidth. Now with ELFA's resources, we can. Lee's vision and mind, she's been very kind to let me kind of say, What do you want to do?
Reid:Mirrors what what we're already doing, which is international and university outreach. Nothing changes. Sorry. I was gonna say nothing I really wanna be careful to say nothing changes for our designees. Nothing changes at all.
Reid:If anything, they're gonna have more access to more things. But we certainly had the panic of, wait, do I have to join ELFA? Absolutely not. So we're still standalone entity, but I think you're going say I segued into the next.
Andrew:Yeah. No, it's perfect. I was going to ask you, talking about your expansion beyond The US, how is the franchise model working in countries like Australia, and what can we expect from our Canadian, our neighbors to the North in Canada and in The UK?
Reid:That, again, was not on Bingo card ever. This was very early on. I think might have been 2016 or so that the Australians approached me at the annual convention, LFA annual convention, and just said, we need something like this. Now we started down the road, but there wasn't a road map, and it was bumpy. It was difficult.
Reid:And then something called COVID happened, which slowed it down drastically. Now we're refining what they're doing down there right now because the first iteration wasn't failure, but it wasn't a huge success. But we took that information, and when Canada said, Hey, pick me, we instituted that. And I was blown away. I mean, Canada got it up and running within a year or so, And they already sold out their first cohort, which is really exciting for me because I get to fly to Toronto and welcome them to to say you're gonna be the next CCLFP.
Reid:So they're Canadian certified lease of biopsy professionals. Now it makes sense to go to The UK. I'm I don't think China's the the next route for us because I don't speak Mandarin, but I I do think that it makes sense there. And so I've had probably five calls right now with different associations and training centers. They all want it, and now we just have to figure out the best way of doing it.
Andrew:You've also been pursuing ANSI accreditation. What would that unlock in terms of recognition and legitimacy for the industry?
Reid:I think the biggest one is on Capitol Hill. So Lee Lytle, the the ELFA CEO, was a regulator, and she's, very, fairly well known on the hill, and going in there and saying, We just have this certification as cute, but saying that you're ANSI accredited carries a lot of weight.
Andrew:And with growth happening in so many directions, how do you maintain the grassroots field that's defined the CLFP culture from the beginning?
Reid:I think one thing that we do really well is just staying in front of our members. So some of the things that we do, we have something called the ambassador program. So for companies that have five or more CLFPs, we have someone at that company who then is our main point of contact so that if we during recertification time, during CLFP day, anything like that, we're front and center. And then this past year was our first year where we called them the unhomed, so CLFPs that don't have four or more CLFPs at their company. We now have people, volunteers, who reach out to them regularly, letting them know what's going on with the foundation, health recertification, all of that stuff.
Reid:And then finally, we we have anniversary emails. It sounds cheesy, but, I mean, it's kind of fun for me to get the anniversary email like on this year, this day, so many years ago, you passed. By the way, if you wanna get involved, I'd love to get involved. And happy birthday, Karz. All of it sounds cheesy and maybe not as professional, but that's really what's been our secret sauce and has gotten us is that community feels.
Reid:We care. We care about people on an individual level, not just a professional level.
Andrew:Well, it's the human touch, right? It's just being great. And I'm sure the members appreciate that, that you're thinking of them on those milestone days, right? So looking ahead, the work you're doing to shape the next generation of talent is one of the most exciting parts of the foundation's mission. Can you talk about the partnership with the University of North Texas and how that model brings equipment finance directly into college programs?
Reid:Yeah. So I'm going to start with UNT. So University of North Texas, Michael Gallo was the equipment finance world and just said, Hey, I have this idea. Do you think it's crazy? And I was like, No.
Reid:I think it's perfect. We already have a textbook. Our textbook is our handbook. And what he did is nothing short of amazing. So that program isn't just getting a student certificate, CLFP student certificate.
Reid:He actually matches everyone gets a mentor the industry. He has guest lectures. So typically, CLFP will go in for one day a week and speak on the topic. Not only that, then he also has psych visits. So WinTrust Asset Finance is down there, and he takes some there.
Reid:The problem we have now is we wanna replicate that in everywhere. But what we've learned is it has to be in target rich environments. So it has to be in in cities where there are internships, where there are jobs. You know, one thing I I feel so bad about is we did a class, which is kind of going into the the next question, but we did a class at Elizabeth City State University. There's not a leasing company anywhere near there.
Reid:So here we are going in saying, hey. There's internships and scholarships or internships and full time jobs. There aren't any because there aren't any leasing companies there. So I think our next area is gonna be Philadelphia. There's a variety of reasons for that, but it does make sense.
Reid:I mean, there are so many companies there. And I would say I'm really proud of this because for since I've been in the industry, so February, everyone's been saying, how do we get people? How do we get students into this? How do we say people stop saying, I fell into this? And I always was thinking, Well, we're kind of far down the road because typically you don't get your CLFP unless you've been in the industry for a while.
Reid:And then this program happened. It was like, Wow, we can actually be really proactive about this. We already have someone who went through the program who's now working at WinTrust. It's really cool.
Andrew:No, that's great. You mentioned Philadelphia. There's dozens of equipment You were finance just there. Minneapolis, Southern California.
Reid:Yep. Those are all my radar.
Andrew:Dallas Fort Worth is another. Nashville is obviously Charlotte is another huge big city with a lot of companies with headquarters down there. So you discussed potential specialized credentials for areas like municipal leasing, agricultural finance, government, and titling. How do you envision those evolving?
Reid:So this was something we've been talking about for a while because what we do every year, we have a body of knowledge committee, and what that is is basically it's the alpha and omega of everything that we do, and it just basically outlines everything a CLFP should know. And we have SMEs that go over subject matter experts that go over it every year. And what we found is some people get really passionate about what they do, and they think that it's everyone needs to know this. It's really important. And then they go too far into the weeds.
Reid:But it is really important for that job. Now what if we created a credential where it's not CLFP, but it's a certification in titling? To be honest, I've been working on this for a while, and I've got it there. It's just what I'm now grappling with is which one do I do first, and how do I not do all of them? Because I keep thinking of new credentials that could be done, and it's our world is so big.
Reid:The equipment finance world when I talk universities, I say, basically, unless you wanna be a doctor or a singer, there's gonna be a role for you somewhere. And how do we figure out which credentials would be best? I don't know. But I will tell you that in the past, insurance, muni, agriculture, all those were elective sections in the exam. Now we've incorporated them a little bit, but we don't go really into it.
Reid:I mean, like, muni and ag are very different than what we normally do. You typically don't do those deals unless you know really what you're doing.
Andrew:Right. Right. Well, could add credential areas for credentials and collections, repossessions, for things that I'm like.
Reid:Right.
Andrew:I'm a subject matter expert in, so perhaps I can get some credentials with-
Reid:Are you skirting around a CLFP?
Andrew:No. No. Just to help myself out a little bit. That
Reid:is another one, though, as well, for sure.
Andrew:Perfect. Hey. If I see that pop up, I'll definitely jump in there. But I got to take the CLIP exam first.
Reid:I was going say, there's one caveat.
Andrew:Yeah. Yeah. Don't allow me to try to backdoor and take that one without passing the other one first.
Reid:Have you met me?
Andrew:Yes. So as the industry becomes more complex, what role do you see standardization playing in elevating professionalism and consistency across the board?
Reid:That's tough question. I think standardization is more of I don't know if companies just wanna feel like they're smarter because they have a different product for a different It doesn't make sense, but I will tell you in terms of accreditation, standardization is gonna be a part of it. And it it how helpful would it be to go to a company if you're switching companies and you actually understand what they're talking about instead of going, oh, well, that's not what we call it over there. I'm not saying that people should jump to different employers, but that is it's learning curve. And I had that at each of my companies, you know, discounting in this way, discounting in this way.
Reid:It's maddening. Let's stop the madness, and I'll just play in the same sandbox.
Andrew:Even going back to the exam, all the different definitions for all the different types of loans and leases, right? Mean, just one little difference in one word changes the name.
Reid:And why? Why do we do that?
Andrew:It's a great question. Reid, your leadership has had a tremendous impact on the industry, and the growth of the CLFP community speaks for itself. Before we wrap up, is there anything you want to share with professionals who are considering taking the certification, or leaders who are thinking about bringing it into their organizations?
Reid:Yes, especially the leaders bringing it in. I think the affiliation with ELFA is certainly gonna open a lot of doors. I will tell you that I did a presentation in front of their board of directors. It was like the United Nations. Like, everyone has their own microphone, and you have to turn it on and off.
Reid:I looked like a rude. But it was interesting having I'm not gonna name names, but heads of large institutions who said, well, isn't that for brokers? And my immediate reaction was to bang my head on the desk because, like, we've been trying to break that stigma for so long, and I thought that we had. But when they listen about what we do, the training, the academy, all that, they said, well, wow. We're paying a lot of money right now for training that you guys are that's part of the certification.
Reid:Why wouldn't I invest in it? And keep in mind that we have not increased we haven't increased anything since I've taken over. The exam, annual dues, nothing. We haven't increased anything. Why?
Reid:Because we don't need to. We're not for profit. And and, yes, I wanna get paid, and, yes, my staff wants to get paid. But, really, we're for the betterment of the industry. And so it I'm really passionate right now at having leaders understand that there is a product out there that is very affordable and, again, brings together that community.
Reid:You know, put five or six people cross departmental and see what happens. I mean, what's the worst thing that can happen? If they fail, but that happens. Yeah. It happens.
Andrew:It happens. It's an opportunity to learn. Right? It's an opportunity to get better.
Reid:There's one more thing in terms of so University of North Texas, super, super proud of that. And I will tell you, inevitably, I had everyone saying, well, so and so, I wanna do this at my alma mater. It is really, really difficult to get a class in a university. I saw it firsthand with Michael, who was already an adjunct professor, just getting this, it takes a lot of money. But something else I'm really proud of is our partnership with Cisco Capital and working with our micro credentials.
Reid:So instead of going having a student certificate or the full CLFP, it's what I did was I worked with hiring managers. I said, hey. I want these students to have a level up, like ahead of any other person who's going through the job. What are, like, the minimum things that would give them that advantage? And then we built a micro credential around it.
Reid:And so we've originally, we're working with HBCUs, and now we're working with Opportunity Zones. And just to get students, even if they don't go into the business, that they're aware of it because people don't understand it. I don't know if you ever talk about the industry, but typically, a, people glaze over, and they're like, don't really understand it. Or or b, they're like, I never knew that existed. It's a 1,300,000,000,000 industry.
Reid:I'm like, yeah. And it's pretty cool. And by the way, once you get in industry, it's pretty much the mafia, you're not leaving. I mean, right. I mean, everyone stays.
Reid:It's it's rare. When people leave, I think, like, what happened? Because it's just such a great industry.
Andrew:Yeah. Mean, they retire. Mean, it's such a great industry. I'm approaching twenty five years with ACS, and I love it. I love what I do.
Andrew:I love helping clients. I love seeing the people that are going through the grind like I am, traveling as much as I do, and look forward to seeing everybody at conferences. It's why I get up every day. It's just a great industry to be a part of. So I appreciate you sharing that, and it's a great way to bring the conversation full circle, and highlights exactly why the CLFP community continues to grow and make such an impact across the industries.
Andrew:For our listeners, be sure to follow the CLFP Foundation, and connect with Reed to stay current on everything they are doing to advance education, and professional standards in equipment finance. Thanks again for joining me on ACS Portfolio Perspective, and to our audience, thank you for listening. Be sure to subscribe where you get your podcasts. Stay tuned for more conversations with the people and perspectives shaping the future of equipment finance. Till next time, I'm Andrew Pace.
Andrew:Thank you for tuning in.